Honestly, these Civ 6 videos are pretty damn helpful in getting a better understanding of the game, not for the sake of winning, but so that I could pump out more cities with dumbass names in multiplayer.
Yeah, but some of them called themselves "the best Civilization 6 players" and claimed they use the optimal strategies, which is not the case in reality. If none of them claimed that and were upfront that they only play for vibes, all would be fine.
@@ThatsNotGouda That's certainly more evil and funny than me just playing America when on TSL, and renaming all the cities to more appropriate names. Fun thing, on one TSL game dynamic ages were enabled, and as I was failing to hit my golden age quota, guess which city was constantly revolting? It was the city stand in for fucking Los Angeles, as they were constantly rioting lmao.
I think the statement "this won't work against the AI" is situationally true. Sometimes the AI is just deadset on ruining your game. Its super situationally dependant on how close the AI spawns, RNG from disasters etc.
If the deity AI is deadset on ruining your game and spawns close enough to you, nothing will work against them. Getting rushed by five warriors on turn 15, especially on standard game speed, is basically GG on the spot. You can justify going archery before currency if you want to be extra careful and are okay with the loss of tempo, but 90% of the time it wont matter (the AI is either too passive and you don't need the archers or they're too aggressive and you die no matter what). Regardless, there are essentially no situations where opening multiple campuses instead of multiple commercial hubs is optimal, outside of certain district discounting strategies (civs with half-cost campuses like Korea or bonus prod towards districts like Hungary can go 2 campuses -> discount comm hub afterwards and have it be optimal). The biggest myth I saw perpetuated is that there's some dreaded mid-game timing push the AI can go for against you which a campus opener could defend but a commercial hub opener couldn't, and the truth is that there's really no such thing. People also argued in favor of a slinger opener instead of double scout -> double settler opener, but the reality is that you can basically always get away with just delaying the production of a slinger until barbs actually rear their heads and still be fine. Going for a slinger opener actually makes it much harder to hit your first golden age than a double scout opener (since scouts generate a lot of era score), so I honestly believe a slinger opener is far riskier than a scout opener in reality.
@@HersonCiv Agree that the "mid game timing push" is a myth - have never seen deity AI do it (plus AI has zero clue what to do against walls). I disagree with the statement "If the deity AI is deadset on ruining your game and spawns close enough to you nothing will work against them." Usually deity AI will not rush you on turn 15, more like turn 30 if they do decide to declare war on you. Once you first meet the civ you can usually tell if they'll be an aggressive civ. You can usually defend with 2 warriors and 2 archers - you should start building a slinger + warrior with agoge once you meet an aggressive civ, and continue to build archers if they attack you. Yes, it's not min-maxing but you are not racing with other players for the win here - the AI is so bad at mid-late game that as long as you don't get stomped early game, you're practically guaranteed to win.
@@eyeborg3148 this. Truly unwinnable situations are possible, but if there's anything a deity player has over a comp player it's being able to deal with early wars without losing the tempo you need for the midgame. That said, as long as you aren't completely dead it's shockingly easy to make up for lost time
32:02 is exactly what I thought would happen when a Multiplayer plays Deity. You had not yet been traumatised by the excessive power of barbarians on deity. Most Singleplayers would be in alarm mode the instant a scout escaped after scouting you. But you made it through the baptism of fire.
Even worse than barbs is getting forward settled by an aggressive neighbor in deity. Sometimes if you're next to Macedon or Gaul or another aggressive civ, they'll auto denouce you no matter what and it's very likely they end up declaring war on you with not much you can do. With early game deity AI starting with 3 cities, more production, and the combat strength buff early game war can be pretty brutal. The AI is stupid, so you can usually defend without too much trouble, but it takes a lot of resources, significantly slow down your early game development, and you won't be able to snowball the way you can in multiplayer. Other than the early game though, once you reach parity with deity AI singleplayer becomes pretty boring - AI is incompetent at war and at winning.
@@crossfire340 yeh ngl I laughed when he freaked out at 3 horsemen. I've had the barbs send double digits at me before I get my third city out. Usually you gotta trick them with builders popping out or baiting them towards your capital and the slinger brigade.
@joe13squirrel had the same exact thought. Had two barb camps spot me before turn 15 that turned into a war until Medieval era with me sitting inside three other AI's with 2 that declared war on me. I was Cree LOL. This may have been deity but I'd love to see his strats when he is forced to war from Ancient era onward. Whatever I'm doing ain't it and he probably can come up with something better.
@@eyeborg3148 nah bro in the case where the AI irrel wars into you, which I agree can set you back around 20-40 turns (online speed), it still plays out in your favor. Your science production is kept low, you actually accumulate more food (since you're producing units and not settler) You just have to greed out at least 3 cities and 1 economy district somewhere (not frontline) then produce some units constantly in fringe cities + get walls (with 100% production boost card and a chop, preferably a Magnus chop) and get Victor in. The AI will run out of resources at some point and that's when you make the comeback. I trust that around turn 120 you will already be ahead or 2nd in the game
Around 2019 or so, a chat member said that PotatoMcWhiskey could teach a college curriculum on Civ 6. He responded saying he would have a great Civ 101 class but others would be much better. I only understood what he meant when your videos started making the rounds. Incredible stuff!
and he is a sp andy who is highly entertaining. best player on both ffa is probably rage and the best teamer player is probably a tossup between nyreen/toes/rage
I know you said this will be your last time doing single player, but I really enjoyed how much faster this game seemed to go compared to multiplayer. There was so much less downtime between turns waiting for others to finish that I felt much more engaged
Unless of course you’re Canada or Russia or anyone who wants tundra. Then it’s bountiful green rolling hills as far as the eye can see for reset after reset.
Selling your luxeries in singleplayer is actually quite a good strategy. The ai often offers a ton of gold, which is worth it early game. You will generally also be able to buy them back from another AI for way cheaper than you sold it making a profit.
Of course you should always be selling excess luxuries, but selling your only luxury of one kind is almost never worth it. I mean, if they happen to pay the 10 gpt that they tend to do later on if you have good relations, then it might be worth it very early on when you have very little yields that you'll be losing by going to negative on amenities. But in no world is it worth it to go to negative amenities for like 3 gpt or 60 instant gold or something like that. Might have been tolerable originally when happines changed yields only by 5% per level of happiness, but not now that it's 10%.
man i gotta say your channel kinda brings me back to the time when youtube was good, info dumb and good gameplay without needless chatter, 5000 alerts and stuff love you man
Man I love to see that apparently there is a hype around multiplayer. I found your channel a few days ago and was blown away by these strategies. Never played Multiplayer but started because of you. Pls keep the good content up
the ai is so pathetic at trading, if you play it right you can basically steal all the ais economies for essentially nothing. I don't know why they never really fixed the free diplo favor thing
Tiny mistake near the beginning : you should wait until you settle your first city before taking a tribal village. Without a city, you can only get eurekas, inspirations, gold and faith, cutting you off from the better rewards: builder, scout, relic and population
@@mmcfarland3215 Did you understand what I said ? I’m talking about delaying for one turn taking the tribal village at the beginning, to have settled the first city before, because a lot of tribal village rewards only work if you have a city settled ( you can’t have a relic of you have no city to put it in), and they usually are better
Hi Herson, I am one of the many "Herson glazers" that got inspiredto join cpl by you. I am intrested in playing some teamer games (like 2v2 or 5v5). Have you considered making a video on these kind of games or is FFA more your area of expertise? Love your videos and have a nice weekend!
We are rapidly approaching the point where I'll have to start mixing in some teamers content, but for now I still have a couple of ideas for FFA that I'll be finishing first. There aren't any content creators making high-quality edited guides/recaps for Teamers, but there are some great streamers - Tryndaehre on Twitch is the strongest English-speaking streamer who regularly plays Teamers, and you can see a lot of exotic build orders that wouldn't work in an FFA environment there. Certain builds that are great in Teamers don't work particularly well in FFA, usually because they prioritize killing someone fast rather than scaling into the late-game, or because they rely on being funneled gold by teammates, or sometimes both.
I'd love to see some team content! I find teams easier to watch because there is less to keep track of (2-4 team strategies instead of 8 individual ones)
I used to be in the CPL's admin staff a long time ago - and we often discussed trying to make videos or content for helping newer players into the MP scene. Even though I've long since parted ways with the community, I'm beyond happy to see that passion still growing there and hearing the community is thriving still - long standing as it is. Hopefully you all continue on in Civ 7 :) thumb up'd and sub'd. Love the content, and thank you for what you and other content creators do.
Game is 7 years old and, on its way, out. What do you expect lol? Maybe when Herson starts making Civ 7 videos he will get over 100k. If he concentrated on Single Player content, he would probably make more money if that were his goal.
The reason for this video ending is probably one of the biggest problems I have playing Civ 6 these days - the "well I've basically won, time to just burn time for the next 100 turns" state. The notion of basically turning off the game at that point doesn't feel great - you don't "win" you just get bored before the win is officially completed. And the multiplayer answer to this is even *worse*, in my opinion because it's extremely anti-climactic and utilitarian - concede votes are so bland! I don't know if there's an answer to this with this kind of game or not, but this game just reminded me of that. It's no wonder single player creators have iterated on their process in order to find *some* way to make a game more entertaining by sandbagging. I have on occasion put an FFA VOD up to take a nap because I know I can drift off while watching it and there won't be any crazy/explosive plays. Everyone will grind and sim and after enough turns people will see one player's score is 50% higher than everyone else's and vote to concede the game.
There are two ways to mitigate this problem. You need anti-snowballing mechanics, and also comeback mechanics. Civ6 actually has both of these, but they're sadly not strong enough. For example, the fact that districts become more expensive the more techs you unlock is an anti-snowball mechanic. Its purpose is to slow down players who are massively ahead in science, by punishing them in terms of production. This then gives other players a chance to catch up. The problem is that you can get such disgusting levels of production that the minor punishment barely matters in the mid to late game. Spies are a good example of an intended comeback mechanic. Being able to steal techs from players who are ahead of you to close the gap between the two of you is great for getting back into the game. Unfortunately spies are in general not good enough to really make a comeback with this mechanic. If Civ6 strengthened its comeback and anti-snowball mechanics, you wouldn't have people just running away with the game.
In mp, late game at least has some point. In sp, I feel exactly as you do. At a certain point (on immortal) I've set everything up and victory is assured, the rest is just clicking with no meaningful decisions. I've been wondering what it would take for me to have any interest in late game Civ (or 4x in general) to no avail.
@@_DaemonCleaner what I usually do when playing sp practice is to try to beat the victory by the fewest number of turns possible. Then I will always minmax everything till the very end. Get to tryndaehre and watch his t96 science victory for an inspiration. It is very hard to make that happen ;)
Thank you for making the content that you do. It benefits people like me who are learning the game and navigating the different progressions. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and your hard work to get it to us here on YT.
because ai plays an entirely different game than the player. they get bonusses left right and center to every stat. its like an average/amateur player plays with 10x gains against a pro player (numbers are made up)
@@ollllj thats why you play multiplayer; civ 6 multiplayer has literally more replayability than any game ; the gameplay loop is just too massive with so many situations and possibilities
18:18 Yes, you do both. Because the AI buys luxuries for SINGIFICANTLY more than what they sell them for. You can sell two luxuries, buy two luxuries, and still end up with enough gold to buy a builder sometimes, or buy a galley to secure a golden age, or any number of thing that are better than 15% multiplier for a few turns before you improve your next copy.
One thing single player has over you is Ui mods. Honestly abit painful to see you ‘struggle’ without them. There is quick deals, build charge indicators, seeing the worked tiles by hovering over, trade route summary (incl all possible routes), amenity summary. There are so many QOL things you miss out on.
Having played a crap ton of Civ V and just recently coming over to Civ VI, it feels cursed to settle so many cities so quickly. In Civ V you would have negative happiness and you would have barbarians constantly spawning in your territory on top of all the debuffs.
You just keep your population down low. You really only need 4 pop for two districts. Depends on if you want to play Peacemonger or Warmonger. I prefer War, Pillage and Plunder.
“Holy shit barbarians have hands” yeah that’s the main killer of runs on deity difficulty for newer players. They get units based on the techs unlocked by other players, and deity AI tend to rush science with etemenanki and campus/library spam meaning they also tend to get hypatia and get even more science from all those libraries and suddenly you’re dealing with barb horsemen (not the budget barbarian horsemen) while you don’t even have animal husbandry. This leads newer players to rush science for better units to fend off barbs, but this also works against them because then the barbs get better units themselves and it ultimately becomes a never-ending cycle. But yeah, you had a very peaceful start with great tiles and mountain ranges, alongside good river placement. The amount of times I see empty land with no freshwater or mountains to aqueduct to is unreal, I’d kill for this start.
I'm new to your channel due to your recent popular videos, and enjoyed the speed you were playing at in this video. However, if you could explain your thought processes or strategy/reasoning behind some of the things you're building or not building, techs you're pursuing, and what you're prioritizing at different points it would really help me out as someone who has not many hours in civ6. It may be that in your other videos you've said those kinds of things before, but repeating information and strategy is helpful to reinforce learning, which is the main reason I'm interested in watching you. I can tell you have experience and expertise and I love to watch and learn from people like you.
Herson you have upped my game as someone who plays public lobby FFA's in a competitive nature. I have recently won multiple lobbies with Japan and Brazil going commercial strat. It is so much fun. Thank you for demystifying the game for people like me.
The difference between Singleplayers and Multiplayers is that Single players will optimize to a point where they win comfortably. An extra two archers for defense, get crossbowman earlier with campuses. Multiplayers push those wins to minimum value expended possible without losing anything.
You pointed at that Warlord's Throne is active for 5 turns whatever the game speed. That's kind of insane really, this makes it good on Online speed and absolutely garbage on Marathon. I never realised this before! (though I only play on Standard). Come on, Firaxis...
I think the argument for anything war related is that because warfare happens at same pace regardless of game speed, also the bonuses related to warfare should last equally long on every speed. In theory, you can't really capture cities any faster on Online than on Standard, so a bonus gained from capturing a city should also last the same amount of time regardless of game speed. But in reality it's much better on faster speeds. Same applies to all the abilities that give some yield bonus from war declaration, like John Curtin, Robert the Bruce, and Tamar's former ability.
I gotta say the experience on multiplayer made me appreciate some civs I'd never even considered playing, I'm a big time Tokugawa fan because of it and I have multiplayer to thank for it.
Hey Herson, just found your channel! Quick story time: I played Civ 6 when it first came out, had 1k hours in Civ 5, mostly Multiplayer in FFA BBG lobby's, so I had a lot of experience and was pretty good . Then Civ 6 came out and I found out early that commercial hub/harbor first was best, especially back when you didn't even need a market for the trade route. I played this way in random lobbies and placed 1st a lot, and have generally stuck with that strat since. I joined CPL within a year of the game coming out, and even placed 2nd a few times haha, and this was back before the meta got refined, like I didn't know about the district cost scaling and preplacement stuff back then, then I went on Deployment (I was In the Navy), and took a break from Civ for many years. I now just play occasionally with friends or rando FFA BBG lobbies, and have wondered what CPL has turned into since I left, because I was having that itch again, but don't know if I want to devote my life to it again 😂 Also I watched potato mcwhiskey back in the day, because he was basically the first medium sized Civ RUclipsr, but then stopped watching after a while because of the suboptimal plays 😂 he's basically like Mumbo Jumbo in Minecraft. Everyone thinks he's good at redstone because he's mainstream, but the people actually good at redstone, know Mumbo is just a surface level redstone engineer lmao But yeah it's nice to see where the CPL meta is now, maybe I'll give CPL a try again, I wonder if my ELO score still exists 😂 Oh I'm a MC RUclipsr by the way, you can join my discord off my channel if you wanna talk
Thank you for the statement at 1:58. My biggest issue with your first video was saying content creators are worse, without clarifying why. They are not necessarily worse, they are just trying to make the content fun. A lot of what you discussed in video 1 is stuff I learned from content creator civ players, its just not channel sustaining to play each game the most perfect way every time.
Here's what I learned, if you get room to expand to eight or nine cities unmolested by the AI, and you're not at war until turn 148 with a computer player until turn 148, and then it's your decision to go to war, you can do REAL GOOD. I'd like to see a more typical game where by around to 50 at least one AI is attacking you like a rabid junkyard dog. I think this start was so atypical it was hard to evaluate it, although I'm certainly going to try it.
I play by myself only on deity - when I do play multiplayer occasionally with friends it feels so relaxing I was wondering when the game was gonna spawn a barb army on you. The AI will never let you cook early game - the whole game is against you
The most important thing I have realised is that at the beginning of the game, food, production, gold/ Faith is much more important. That's why the civ with bonus economy is so strong in PVP. Cause science or cultrue can't turn into food, prod or military strength. But gold and faith can turn into food, prod, science, entertainment, and military strength immediately. These things can even recruit great people. That's why we should focus on gold or faith at the beginning. Cause the diffence between 40 sci or 60 sci is only having key tech unlock faster 1 or 2 turn. But the diffrence bewteen 40 gold per turn and 60 gold per turn is enough to decide the game's winner.
You did just what I expected from someone that never plays single player but knows the game extremely well. Played a relatively clean opener but underestimating the real threat in the barbarians. You did get lucky losing only a scout instead of your second city and the trader which definitely does happen a bunch if you're running no early units at all. The biggest thing that I like is how hopefully finally the knowledge that early game culture is vital and science is a luxury stat is getting spread a bit more among the wider community.
Most of the time online strategies will work even better in SP. The few times when they don't. they are either: a) Using the fact that the human is smart (alliances/trade/stealing) b) Abusing human psychology (for example humans are very bad at sacrificing pieces in chess)
also in a deity game wars are common, while in a mid to high level FFA game early war isn't common because it sets back both players vs the rest of the lobby
You said this is the last time you'd play against the AI, but please, make more videos like this. Its super useful to learn a build order. Great video!
So i haven't thought about civ 6 in over 4 years, but saw that 101 guide and just decided to out eco a couple mates in mp this weekend, ones that always try optimise rushing tech. Worked out great, So thanks for atleast showing me how to get better at civ. I still seem to be behind schedule compared to that video, Only having 3, maybe 4 cities by turn 30 type of deal. But that's ok, practice and minor improvents here and there. But the reach on that video definitely went further than just the youtube civ communities.
Really neet to see that your MP experience translates really well in to SP. Finding your content has really made me think my own game and question what are the best things to focus on. As some one who has mostly played SP I see two big differences between SP and MP. First is that in Deity SP barbs and AI are massive threats really early and they will ruin some games by rushing you, but after you clear the nearby barb camps and do some diplomacy to get friendships they become almost irrelevant as military threats. Second is the amount of gold that you can suck from the AI. With mods that make trade easier you can get something like 3-5x the turn count in GPT, by trading away your spare luxuries and strategic resources.
31:48 hahaha, feel our pain!!! Every game I just want to build economy, but there is always SOMETHING that ruins your day. I think there was a patch recently that made barbarians way more aggressive too. Even though you did a really good job with scouting and clearing camps, you made the stupid (sarcasm) mistake of leaving one single tile unexplored! It's Sid Meier's law. Barb camps will always spawn on the last tile you explore.
Had someone comment about your multiplayer 101 being basically my single player strategy more or less. So with that I will say 100% your strategy will work on single player without problems.
@@penknight8532 nope. Regular game settings. I play with the goal of winning as fast as possible. No big surprise but the actual best strategy to win single player is pretty close to the same strategy as multiplayer.
I actually just tried this myself having found your video about competitive Civ 6 a few days ago. I did play on Deity, with BBG and BBM mods in but nothing else (online speed), otherwise a completely vanilla game. I left my civ random and drew Hojo Tokimune. I just launched my Earth Satellite on turn 99 and I am CRUSHING the deity AI. 600+ science per turn and the next best is 370 (also top culture btw). It seems the only primary difference between online and Deity AI is that the AI is much more likely to take you to war early.
for buying and selling luxuries to AI in SP, deity AI usually sells them really low (around the same as your deal) and buys them really high (maybe 15-20 gold per turn on the higher end, when it's worth it)
Totaly hear the haters scream: But you build Campus 1st! But you lost to Barbs! But you only survived by Friendship-hack, But you only won war cuz of you Civ... but but butbutbutbuttututt :D
You made a small mistake in the early game (nerd face). It was pretty obvious that the best pantheon is God of The Open Sky (+1 culture on pastures), so buying a builder and getting those 3 pastures would yield 3 culture, 3 prod and 1.5 housing, instead of the 2 culture monument (ik that the next builder would be more expensive but its still worth it imo). Well done on the channel, I started watching a few weeks ago and I knew immediately that you will pop off. keep it up!
That would have required teching for animal husbandry, which would have delayed commercials and made them more expensive production wise. Not necessarily a bad play, but he would have had to commit sooner than just the turn he chose to buy the monument instead.
I've been watching cpl games for a while. Generally cpl guys only go animal husbandry for temple of Artemis rush or to make tiles better. Sometimes you'll see early builder strats, but going monument first in new cities is the more common play. Culture is king until around turn 45 50 when you should have fuedalism and can start focusing on science online speed. Culture is really important early game and herson does a really good job of explaining why in his tutorials
@herson I love your videos! I was wondering / hoping you could make a video on chopping. I understand it better now and would always chop on forest hills and where districts would be placed, but it seems you utilize them MUCH more than I ever thought to do. Maybe it because of the online speed? Arent lubber camps really good on flat ground? Anyways, would really love a video exploring all this more. Love the content, keep it up!
One big thing is to save most of your chops till you get Feudalism... it's a huge difference. If you really want to micro it, you have to tour Magnus around to all your cities as you chop the map down. If you go over to Civfanatics Forum, Victoria has a pinned guide on it. Very Detailed. Chopping out more builders with your last chop is a thing too. And if you have faith generation and monumentality... even better.
Be me Play only on immortal Watch these videos Try deity for the first time and apply these concepts. I am dog walking the AI by turn 90 on quick speed.
The most important thing I got from this video is that I don't need to research everything and I can just focus on one path. I still have 0 clue on the civic tree though
Please consider doing this again but with BBG! Personally the pacing is a lot more enjoyable than multiplayer as there’s much less downtime. I know it’s probably not as fun as multi but it can still be very informative for both kinds of players. You could even do it on online speed or quick if you want. Love the content!
you can get temple of artemis almost 100% of the time verse AI. coliseum is also reliable if you rush it. if you have a pretty godly culture spawn, you can sometimes get oracle. there's an outside chance you can get artemis, coliseum, and oracle in your capitol. you'd likely want to start artemis, switch to and finish oracle, start coliseum, finish artemis, finish coliseum. wonder reminder enhanced would be highly recommended, so you can see if the AI is pushing any of the wonders. canada's a good option to try for the trifecta, since you get godly camp yields and don't have to worry about being attacked by other civs. artemis and coliseum should both be reliable if you rush them. disable barbarians if you'd like for a little more opportunity with any civ. you'll probably be pretty behind in city quantity if you do this, that's your big tradeoff. outside of these three, great lighthouse, colossus, petra, and mausoleum are all relatively reliable given your spawn/build order is appropriate. edit: hanging gardens is often available, too, but i'd only build it for era score mostly.
i think the main problem with the multiplayer strat against AI is if you spawn close to other AI then youll be forced into an early game war which this strat is awful against (seeing as the meta is against esely game wars online, but bots dont care about that)
Same opinion here. I think the strats from multiplayer are the most effective, but the games are tailored for them so you can rush Comm Hub/Harbor/HS on 3 cities with golden ages... but all that goes out the window when Deity AI funnel their excess units at your turn 15 while they settle their 2 extra settlers to outpace your science. You hope they don't tech the OP units in each era and are set back 50 turns.
glad to see im not the only one who thinks this way. ofc if both players play ideally like on comp then its a good strat, but against AI you at least need archers i think in case of a war
Doesn't matter, you can defend easily because the ai is terrible at attacking even with cheats, and you will eventually surpass the ai or at the very least keep up with them
your video made perfect sense. another advantage of building commercial districts and industrial zones is the AI doesn't do it and you can get great people easier, they are always competing for great scientists
I have only seen one Twitch streamer who actually goes for optimization, but he does reload a lot. Then again, his approach gets him sub-180 victories on Standard even without reloads, so going for optimization over what seems like what would be good for the game does make for better play. It all depends on what you consider to be optimal
I checked out of Civ VI long ago after my favourite used-to-be-Civ creator, FilthyRobot, ditched the game, but your video about Civ VI multiplayer fundamental picked my interest since ever since watching competitive Civ V I got rid of the notion that playing Civ in SP, as entertaining as it is, is anything remotely close to being optimal. Beating the "AI", which historically was always an idiot given a lot of free cash in various forms, doesn't require some intricate and wholly different skillset incomprehensible to a player that needs to beat an actual human player who wants to beat them with an actual brain in their skull. I get that people like to think that they beat Deity regularly or always, and they want to lull themselves into thinking that they're "as good as they can be" at the game, and multiplayer is "a whole other game" and their skill is valid. So by protesting against the observable fact that a multiplayer Civ player easily smokes SP content creators they are trying to protect their own egos. I haven't played a single turn of MP Civ in my life, and I just accept the fact that if my aim was to get good at Civ the way to do it would be to try to play multi on a decent level, and if I just play Civ like I used to - so, as a source of my leisure after work - I'll be pretty awful at it, no matter how handily I can manage AI. And it's pretty logical that fundamentals of MP optimal play will also translate to SP success because at the end of the day Civ is a large engine building board game so of course engine creation strategies used to beat a good player (human) without head start will work against a really bad player (AI) that was given head start.
@@penknight8532 yeah, changed the game for better balance so more civs are viable to win. If the games are so "different" then clearly MP must be the harder game since the MP player mops the floor with SP players when having a weak start. If playing that different game of MP makes you so much stronger in that game of SP Civ, then the only conclusion can be that the MP environment requires more tactical and strategic skill. Of course they're not different games. Balance or not (in this very video the euthor turns it off, thats the point of it), the principles and mechanics are the same. The focal point is "do you prioritize campuses because of 'science is king' zinger" like SP content creators do or "do you prioritize commercial districts", like apparently the MP meta is. And you just can see the winning strategy in both is the same "two different games" is the cope this video is directly tackling
Can you please do a Poundmaker Civ spotlight? I’ve seen a lot of people dominate with him and get a ton of science despite the fact that he has absolutely no science bonus at all whatsoever. The previous multiplayer science victory record was even set with him. If you do, I will thank you in advance now.
I had THE perfect Deity game as Gaul a few days back. Had my fourth city down, everything lined up, timing perfect, scouts finding all of the right things, perfect city placements, etc. I finally destroy and invading barb camp, to find TWO MORE CAMPS sending horseman at me. Rip.
My favorite part of this video is when I learned that you can put any card in the wildcard slot. I'm going to take a wild guess that that's why they call it the wildcard slot. Duh, winning!
This is pretty cool, and overall I wish I found your vids sooner - maybe I would like 6 more if I did. Do you plan on doing videos on builds instead of general strategies? For example - I loved playing Morroco in 5 and using all of its abilities, wonders and policies to become rich and then buy every plane I want and win. Big Ben was the best! But I can't seem to figure out anything in similar vein, even outside of money. I also struggle managing more then 4 cities. It would be cool to know how you keep up - though I would assume having a build helps. EDIT: Like the Stonehenge video! That one was the stuff.
I watched a couple of multiplayer videos of yours, didn't know what mods you were using or what difficulty it was set to.. It seems like everything was overpowered extra production bonuses from builders, reduced building times, crazy pantheons etc.. Also almost no barbs ever.. Watching you play unmodded, I just thought to myself, yep this is more like my experience of Civ... Not saying you aren't skilled, but the no hyper ott start, followed by 31.50 'OMG! What is this? As three barb horsemen rock up out of the fog.. made me chuckle
It was interesting to see a way the BBG mod makes the early game meta work better, with no negative amenities from low pop cities. Vanilla seems to encourage you to build builders or slow down expanding. It's still not optimal to stop making settlers and start flooding builders of course, but it's interesting how the game tries to dissuade you from optimal play.
it's funny that the devs focus mainly on singleplayer but at the same time the player can't completely experience great wonders or great people because of the amount of bonuses the ai gets.
I wrote comment in the original guide video asking about if that strat could work in single and speculating that it wont work at the same level as it works in multi becouse ai starts with a massive army after I wrote that I did give it a try and I must say it works like a charm just likw the multi the probably biggest diffrence that you should be doing from the general multiplayer strategy is that yoy should be making more early game units for defence and thats it
Great Video and I would love to see more of these Deity SP run-throughs but you proved that your Single Player Strategies need work. You didn't abuse the AI Trade at all in the early game. You can buy up 20 Diplo Points for 1 gold and sell them back later for massive gold. You crushed the game but the pros over on Civfanatics beat SP Standard/Standard Deity by around turn 90 to 160 depending on map/civ. That's actually getting to the Victory Screen. The game is completely different compared to the MP/BBG/CPL games but that doesn't mean that MP Strategy won't beat Deity AI. You had better than average starting land. Try it when you got horrible plains/grass tiles mixed in with tundra and no hills. You got a bit lucky that the Barbs only brought 3 horsey :) ... I didn't even see you abuse any of the Science Overflow.
As for pace, I'd shoot for 100 science 100 culture by turn 100. A turn 200 win is very good, but usually requires a great spawn, good civ and a ton of trade deal min-maxing. I'd still say your pace was good, as your prod econ was really strong. I'm curious what it'd look like if you did play with mods, but I wouldn't force you to play another full game for that.
Atleast PMW doesn't go into dark ages, and honestly, it seemed you struggled all the way. On the other hand its good to see a "pro" with a little struggle and how you reacted to it shows the casual players how a deity game usually goes. Overall, gg.
I know you said you're never doing single player again, but I thought this was a great video, and seeing how it's the 2nd most popular video you've put out, I think a lot of others agree with me.
For those who says pro multiplayers struggle in deity, I strongly disagree. But trying to prove it will also not summarize the situation here. I understand the 2 scout opener in general but in single player against Deity that would work until you saw a barbarian scout with exclamation mark on his head. Out of 8/10 games you will likely to encounter barbarian camp around 5-7 tiles next to your capital that will make tons of units until you clear it and make you lose tempo. Also there are some situations that barbarians will advance in tech and start to spam swordsmen. Other one is the situation that that you'll get a 2 or more barbarian camps near your capital. In that case you have to adjust your game plan dynamically and avoid going for memorized/meta way. I agree that campus opener doesn't really matter against AI since they do not have the capability of going for just single victory condition rather they try to go for every win condition equally and thats your win condition in the long run. If you're next to agressive civ you're more likely to defend it with simple 3 archers and 1-2 warriors because AI doesn't really give a s** about your city if there are some units next to it. If not, you will more likely to spot several units of a civ that about to attack you going slowly toward your city so that you' will get a hint whether they'll attack you or not so you will have a brief moment to prepare. Overall, If barbarians doesn't ruin your early game you will more likely to win every Deity game whatever you picked for the opener. So beating Deity in potato's way or pro MP player's way isn't really the case here. In Singleplayer if you know how AI works, you'll be just fine. In multiplayer, you can't know how an individual would act so you go for memorized/meta openers for each civ. Also playing single player with vanilla and playing mp with BBG is not the same thing and I strongly oppose whoever trying to compare them. Notice that in BBG MP you don't get punished for not clearing barb camps because you got a +10 attack so even the scout can out-damage the barbarians. -Note: Btw my opinions does not include ''BBG in single player''. Trying BBG in singleplayer have very different experience than vanilla. I could tell it would be more hell since AI also gets Deity bonuses (for production science etc.) and BBG bonuses at the same time so if you're playing BBG in single player and you're next to a civ, you're more likely to die early on. They product everything super faster than usual with Deity + BBG bonuses. Since they start with 5 warriors and 3 settlers and each cities gets boosted science, culture and production bonuses so don't surprise if they attack you with man-at-arms at turn 30 while you just completed a commercial hub/campus buildings.
Last Game I had an aggressive Dido next to me and she got suzerain of Akkad! She brought 5 warriors and so did Akkad. Game did not end well because I didn't rush archery and my Army explored a couple of tiles too far lol.
I just didn't really have anywhere better to settle. I was looking for terrain which had some chops and was hilly so I could build mines. The fact that volcanos happened to be in those spots was a coincidence
@@HersonCivThanks for the answer, makes sense. I'm going through the video, about 2/3 through and I have one more question, what's up with no walls/skipping over city center improvements?
Isn't selecting Abundant Resources/Srategics used in multiplayer to speed the game up on top of using online speed? Why select these options when playing Deity..? Same with selecting New for World Age..
Little disappointing to not see herson square off against an aggressive early ai deity war, but herson definitely knows how to be flexible with his game play. Can't win in a cpl lobby if you can't early war or adjust on the go
Honestly, these Civ 6 videos are pretty damn helpful in getting a better understanding of the game, not for the sake of winning, but so that I could pump out more cities with dumbass names in multiplayer.
so real
Yeah, but some of them called themselves "the best Civilization 6 players" and claimed they use the optimal strategies, which is not the case in reality. If none of them claimed that and were upfront that they only play for vibes, all would be fine.
Naming cities after my mates dogs when playing Australia and gaslighting him that he named his digs after Australian cities
@@ThatsNotGouda That's certainly more evil and funny than me just playing America when on TSL, and renaming all the cities to more appropriate names.
Fun thing, on one TSL game dynamic ages were enabled, and as I was failing to hit my golden age quota, guess which city was constantly revolting?
It was the city stand in for fucking Los Angeles, as they were constantly rioting lmao.
😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅 1:21:16 1:21:16 😅 1:21:17 😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅😅 1:21:23 😅 1:21:259@@2Links
I think the statement "this won't work against the AI" is situationally true. Sometimes the AI is just deadset on ruining your game. Its super situationally dependant on how close the AI spawns, RNG from disasters etc.
If the deity AI is deadset on ruining your game and spawns close enough to you, nothing will work against them. Getting rushed by five warriors on turn 15, especially on standard game speed, is basically GG on the spot. You can justify going archery before currency if you want to be extra careful and are okay with the loss of tempo, but 90% of the time it wont matter (the AI is either too passive and you don't need the archers or they're too aggressive and you die no matter what).
Regardless, there are essentially no situations where opening multiple campuses instead of multiple commercial hubs is optimal, outside of certain district discounting strategies (civs with half-cost campuses like Korea or bonus prod towards districts like Hungary can go 2 campuses -> discount comm hub afterwards and have it be optimal).
The biggest myth I saw perpetuated is that there's some dreaded mid-game timing push the AI can go for against you which a campus opener could defend but a commercial hub opener couldn't, and the truth is that there's really no such thing. People also argued in favor of a slinger opener instead of double scout -> double settler opener, but the reality is that you can basically always get away with just delaying the production of a slinger until barbs actually rear their heads and still be fine. Going for a slinger opener actually makes it much harder to hit your first golden age than a double scout opener (since scouts generate a lot of era score), so I honestly believe a slinger opener is far riskier than a scout opener in reality.
Hello, "Filthy Casual" 1:45
@@HersonCiv Agree that the "mid game timing push" is a myth - have never seen deity AI do it (plus AI has zero clue what to do against walls). I disagree with the statement "If the deity AI is deadset on ruining your game and spawns close enough to you nothing will work against them."
Usually deity AI will not rush you on turn 15, more like turn 30 if they do decide to declare war on you. Once you first meet the civ you can usually tell if they'll be an aggressive civ.
You can usually defend with 2 warriors and 2 archers - you should start building a slinger + warrior with agoge once you meet an aggressive civ, and continue to build archers if they attack you. Yes, it's not min-maxing but you are not racing with other players for the win here - the AI is so bad at mid-late game that as long as you don't get stomped early game, you're practically guaranteed to win.
@@HersonCiv he is also playing with game modes enabled which does change the game a lot.
@@eyeborg3148 this. Truly unwinnable situations are possible, but if there's anything a deity player has over a comp player it's being able to deal with early wars without losing the tempo you need for the midgame.
That said, as long as you aren't completely dead it's shockingly easy to make up for lost time
I knew my comment was going to be in here 😂 but I did say “correct me if I’m wrong”, and you sir made a whole video! Well played!
spawn begging you to be a SP creator and place campuses lol
32:02 is exactly what I thought would happen when a Multiplayer plays Deity. You had not yet been traumatised by the excessive power of barbarians on deity. Most Singleplayers would be in alarm mode the instant a scout escaped after scouting you. But you made it through the baptism of fire.
Even worse than barbs is getting forward settled by an aggressive neighbor in deity. Sometimes if you're next to Macedon or Gaul or another aggressive civ, they'll auto denouce you no matter what and it's very likely they end up declaring war on you with not much you can do. With early game deity AI starting with 3 cities, more production, and the combat strength buff early game war can be pretty brutal.
The AI is stupid, so you can usually defend without too much trouble, but it takes a lot of resources, significantly slow down your early game development, and you won't be able to snowball the way you can in multiplayer.
Other than the early game though, once you reach parity with deity AI singleplayer becomes pretty boring - AI is incompetent at war and at winning.
It really wasn't that bad. It was like 3 or 4 units.
@@crossfire340 yeh ngl I laughed when he freaked out at 3 horsemen. I've had the barbs send double digits at me before I get my third city out. Usually you gotta trick them with builders popping out or baiting them towards your capital and the slinger brigade.
@joe13squirrel had the same exact thought. Had two barb camps spot me before turn 15 that turned into a war until Medieval era with me sitting inside three other AI's with 2 that declared war on me. I was Cree LOL. This may have been deity but I'd love to see his strats when he is forced to war from Ancient era onward. Whatever I'm doing ain't it and he probably can come up with something better.
@@eyeborg3148 nah bro in the case where the AI irrel wars into you, which I agree can set you back around 20-40 turns (online speed), it still plays out in your favor. Your science production is kept low, you actually accumulate more food (since you're producing units and not settler) You just have to greed out at least 3 cities and 1 economy district somewhere (not frontline) then produce some units constantly in fringe cities + get walls (with 100% production boost card and a chop, preferably a Magnus chop) and get Victor in. The AI will run out of resources at some point and that's when you make the comeback. I trust that around turn 120 you will already be ahead or 2nd in the game
Around 2019 or so, a chat member said that PotatoMcWhiskey could teach a college curriculum on Civ 6. He responded saying he would have a great Civ 101 class but others would be much better. I only understood what he meant when your videos started making the rounds. Incredible stuff!
and he is a sp andy who is highly entertaining. best player on both ffa is probably rage and the best teamer player is probably a tossup between nyreen/toes/rage
@@ricktap3247 potato is playing multiplayer now, he joined CPL.
the top players of the MP communities have very deep knowledge of small nuances
I know you said this will be your last time doing single player, but I really enjoyed how much faster this game seemed to go compared to multiplayer. There was so much less downtime between turns waiting for others to finish that I felt much more engaged
Damn bro Herson to the moon, this is some QUALITY content.
Why are you commenting here drongo?! There is a tournament going on!!! Love you bud
Didnt expect to see you on here O.o
Love how you’re slipping under the radar here lol
Love your content Drongo! Feet on the table sipping apple juice!
And the aoe drango makes his appearance, haha glad to see u here !
the part of the video i related to the most was when you got six unbiased tundra starts in a row in unmodded.
Unless of course you’re Canada or Russia or anyone who wants tundra. Then it’s bountiful green rolling hills as far as the eye can see for reset after reset.
Selling your luxeries in singleplayer is actually quite a good strategy. The ai often offers a ton of gold, which is worth it early game. You will generally also be able to buy them back from another AI for way cheaper than you sold it making a profit.
And when you need them back you can literally declare war on them at a moments notice without much loss 😈
Of course you should always be selling excess luxuries, but selling your only luxury of one kind is almost never worth it. I mean, if they happen to pay the 10 gpt that they tend to do later on if you have good relations, then it might be worth it very early on when you have very little yields that you'll be losing by going to negative on amenities. But in no world is it worth it to go to negative amenities for like 3 gpt or 60 instant gold or something like that. Might have been tolerable originally when happines changed yields only by 5% per level of happiness, but not now that it's 10%.
@@wombat4191the AI generally gives around 10 gpt, i would also try to prevent negative amenities so i agree on that.
@@kaas13akjdf4y32u As I said, they generally give 10 gpt a bit later. Early on, it might be something like 2 to 5.
@@wombat4191 they often give around 7-8 in my experience, if they give so little you should ofc just not trade
man i gotta say your channel kinda brings me back to the time when youtube was good, info dumb and good gameplay without needless chatter, 5000 alerts and stuff
love you man
Man I love to see that apparently there is a hype around multiplayer. I found your channel a few days ago and was blown away by these strategies. Never played Multiplayer but started because of you. Pls keep the good content up
18:15 The best thing is to sell your luxuries and then buy them back from another AI for way cheaper 😂
the ai is so pathetic at trading, if you play it right you can basically steal all the ais economies for essentially nothing. I don't know why they never really fixed the free diplo favor thing
You get: Some diplo points I'll never use and some extra whales I have left over
I get: Your entire income
*Balanced*
Tiny mistake near the beginning : you should wait until you settle your first city before taking a tribal village. Without a city, you can only get eurekas, inspirations, gold and faith, cutting you off from the better rewards: builder, scout, relic and population
You forgot the worst possible result there: just plain experience for the warrior going into the village.
@@Jack_Rakan oh god yes I forgot about that one
Naw I'd rather have a city over those options. Never heard of that though lol it's just random though
@@mmcfarland3215 Did you understand what I said ? I’m talking about delaying for one turn taking the tribal village at the beginning, to have settled the first city before, because a lot of tribal village rewards only work if you have a city settled ( you can’t have a relic of you have no city to put it in), and they usually are better
At 5:37 he gets a free scout from a tribal village with only one city down. Maybe you're using a different mod?
Hi Herson, I am one of the many "Herson glazers" that got inspiredto join cpl by you. I am intrested in playing some teamer games (like 2v2 or 5v5). Have you considered making a video on these kind of games or is FFA more your area of expertise? Love your videos and have a nice weekend!
We are rapidly approaching the point where I'll have to start mixing in some teamers content, but for now I still have a couple of ideas for FFA that I'll be finishing first. There aren't any content creators making high-quality edited guides/recaps for Teamers, but there are some great streamers - Tryndaehre on Twitch is the strongest English-speaking streamer who regularly plays Teamers, and you can see a lot of exotic build orders that wouldn't work in an FFA environment there. Certain builds that are great in Teamers don't work particularly well in FFA, usually because they prioritize killing someone fast rather than scaling into the late-game, or because they rely on being funneled gold by teammates, or sometimes both.
Thanks for the answer! Ill check him out. Looking forward to future (FFA and teamers) guides then. My first cpl game is also pretzy soon, wish me luck
I'd love to see some team content! I find teams easier to watch because there is less to keep track of (2-4 team strategies instead of 8 individual ones)
I used to be in the CPL's admin staff a long time ago - and we often discussed trying to make videos or content for helping newer players into the MP scene. Even though I've long since parted ways with the community, I'm beyond happy to see that passion still growing there and hearing the community is thriving still - long standing as it is. Hopefully you all continue on in Civ 7 :)
thumb up'd and sub'd. Love the content, and thank you for what you and other content creators do.
I think it's really poetic that Cleveland was arguably one of the worst cities in your empire.
Dang, you are skyrocketing. When I subbed to you you had like 1.5k. Now you have 6.5k! Congrats
Game is 7 years old and, on its way, out.
What do you expect lol?
Maybe when Herson starts making Civ 7 videos he will get over 100k.
If he concentrated on Single Player content, he would probably make more money if that were his goal.
The reason for this video ending is probably one of the biggest problems I have playing Civ 6 these days - the "well I've basically won, time to just burn time for the next 100 turns" state. The notion of basically turning off the game at that point doesn't feel great - you don't "win" you just get bored before the win is officially completed. And the multiplayer answer to this is even *worse*, in my opinion because it's extremely anti-climactic and utilitarian - concede votes are so bland!
I don't know if there's an answer to this with this kind of game or not, but this game just reminded me of that. It's no wonder single player creators have iterated on their process in order to find *some* way to make a game more entertaining by sandbagging. I have on occasion put an FFA VOD up to take a nap because I know I can drift off while watching it and there won't be any crazy/explosive plays. Everyone will grind and sim and after enough turns people will see one player's score is 50% higher than everyone else's and vote to concede the game.
There are two ways to mitigate this problem. You need anti-snowballing mechanics, and also comeback mechanics. Civ6 actually has both of these, but they're sadly not strong enough.
For example, the fact that districts become more expensive the more techs you unlock is an anti-snowball mechanic. Its purpose is to slow down players who are massively ahead in science, by punishing them in terms of production. This then gives other players a chance to catch up. The problem is that you can get such disgusting levels of production that the minor punishment barely matters in the mid to late game.
Spies are a good example of an intended comeback mechanic. Being able to steal techs from players who are ahead of you to close the gap between the two of you is great for getting back into the game. Unfortunately spies are in general not good enough to really make a comeback with this mechanic.
If Civ6 strengthened its comeback and anti-snowball mechanics, you wouldn't have people just running away with the game.
In mp, late game at least has some point. In sp, I feel exactly as you do. At a certain point (on immortal) I've set everything up and victory is assured, the rest is just clicking with no meaningful decisions. I've been wondering what it would take for me to have any interest in late game Civ (or 4x in general) to no avail.
there are a lot of wars in the modern era but at some point it's better to cd rather than go through the motions
@@_DaemonCleaner what I usually do when playing sp practice is to try to beat the victory by the fewest number of turns possible. Then I will always minmax everything till the very end. Get to tryndaehre and watch his t96 science victory for an inspiration. It is very hard to make that happen ;)
Seems like with Civ 7 they are at least trying to tackle this problem - 3 ages with each being unique and they end with a crisis
Thank you for making the content that you do. It benefits people like me who are learning the game and navigating the different progressions. I appreciate you sharing your knowledge and your hard work to get it to us here on YT.
Why would anyone think the best multiplayer strategy couldn’t beat civ 6s terrible ai, even on Deity
because ai plays an entirely different game than the player. they get bonusses left right and center to every stat. its like an average/amateur player plays with 10x gains against a pro player (numbers are made up)
idk, some idiots on reddit
civ6 is horrible in how it lacks statistics and replay-functionality.
even civ1 was better at that in most ways.
@@olllljThat’s why I remain a Civ 4 elitist
@@ollllj thats why you play multiplayer; civ 6 multiplayer has literally more replayability than any game ; the gameplay loop is just too massive with so many situations and possibilities
The fact that the game speed and barbs were more difficult to adjust to than the deity ai 🤣🤣
I stopped playing Civ 6 because i got addicted, but by the time I was playing, your videos really helped me ! Thank you for that.
Yo I'm a new player to Civ 6. But man feels like your channel is criminally underrated
It's just newer than the old guard, mark my words Herson will get a massive civ 7 boost if he makes content for it on release.
18:18 Yes, you do both. Because the AI buys luxuries for SINGIFICANTLY more than what they sell them for. You can sell two luxuries, buy two luxuries, and still end up with enough gold to buy a builder sometimes, or buy a galley to secure a golden age, or any number of thing that are better than 15% multiplier for a few turns before you improve your next copy.
One thing single player has over you is Ui mods. Honestly abit painful to see you ‘struggle’ without them. There is quick deals, build charge indicators, seeing the worked tiles by hovering over, trade route summary (incl all possible routes), amenity summary. There are so many QOL things you miss out on.
Having played a crap ton of Civ V and just recently coming over to Civ VI, it feels cursed to settle so many cities so quickly. In Civ V you would have negative happiness and you would have barbarians constantly spawning in your territory on top of all the debuffs.
You just keep your population down low. You really only need 4 pop for two districts. Depends on if you want to play Peacemonger or Warmonger. I prefer War, Pillage and Plunder.
shared your MP 101 video with a group of friends. hopefully this will help them not get completely steamrolled by me in the future!
“Holy shit barbarians have hands” yeah that’s the main killer of runs on deity difficulty for newer players. They get units based on the techs unlocked by other players, and deity AI tend to rush science with etemenanki and campus/library spam meaning they also tend to get hypatia and get even more science from all those libraries and suddenly you’re dealing with barb horsemen (not the budget barbarian horsemen) while you don’t even have animal husbandry. This leads newer players to rush science for better units to fend off barbs, but this also works against them because then the barbs get better units themselves and it ultimately becomes a never-ending cycle. But yeah, you had a very peaceful start with great tiles and mountain ranges, alongside good river placement. The amount of times I see empty land with no freshwater or mountains to aqueduct to is unreal, I’d kill for this start.
I'm new to your channel due to your recent popular videos, and enjoyed the speed you were playing at in this video. However, if you could explain your thought processes or strategy/reasoning behind some of the things you're building or not building, techs you're pursuing, and what you're prioritizing at different points it would really help me out as someone who has not many hours in civ6. It may be that in your other videos you've said those kinds of things before, but repeating information and strategy is helpful to reinforce learning, which is the main reason I'm interested in watching you. I can tell you have experience and expertise and I love to watch and learn from people like you.
Herson you have upped my game as someone who plays public lobby FFA's in a competitive nature. I have recently won multiple lobbies with Japan and Brazil going commercial strat. It is so much fun. Thank you for demystifying the game for people like me.
The difference between Singleplayers and Multiplayers is that Single players will optimize to a point where they win comfortably. An extra two archers for defense, get crossbowman earlier with campuses. Multiplayers push those wins to minimum value expended possible without losing anything.
Exactly with how scuffed the ai is you don't have any incentive to minmax in singleplayer even on deity.
You pointed at that Warlord's Throne is active for 5 turns whatever the game speed. That's kind of insane really, this makes it good on Online speed and absolutely garbage on Marathon. I never realised this before! (though I only play on Standard). Come on, Firaxis...
I think the argument for anything war related is that because warfare happens at same pace regardless of game speed, also the bonuses related to warfare should last equally long on every speed. In theory, you can't really capture cities any faster on Online than on Standard, so a bonus gained from capturing a city should also last the same amount of time regardless of game speed.
But in reality it's much better on faster speeds. Same applies to all the abilities that give some yield bonus from war declaration, like John Curtin, Robert the Bruce, and Tamar's former ability.
I gotta say the experience on multiplayer made me appreciate some civs I'd never even considered playing, I'm a big time Tokugawa fan because of it and I have multiplayer to thank for it.
Hey Herson, just found your channel! Quick story time:
I played Civ 6 when it first came out, had 1k hours in Civ 5, mostly Multiplayer in FFA BBG lobby's, so I had a lot of experience and was pretty good .
Then Civ 6 came out and I found out early that commercial hub/harbor first was best, especially back when you didn't even need a market for the trade route. I played this way in random lobbies and placed 1st a lot, and have generally stuck with that strat since.
I joined CPL within a year of the game coming out, and even placed 2nd a few times haha, and this was back before the meta got refined, like I didn't know about the district cost scaling and preplacement stuff back then, then I went on Deployment (I was In the Navy), and took a break from Civ for many years. I now just play occasionally with friends or rando FFA BBG lobbies, and have wondered what CPL has turned into since I left, because I was having that itch again, but don't know if I want to devote my life to it again 😂
Also I watched potato mcwhiskey back in the day, because he was basically the first medium sized Civ RUclipsr, but then stopped watching after a while because of the suboptimal plays 😂 he's basically like Mumbo Jumbo in Minecraft. Everyone thinks he's good at redstone because he's mainstream, but the people actually good at redstone, know Mumbo is just a surface level redstone engineer lmao
But yeah it's nice to see where the CPL meta is now, maybe I'll give CPL a try again, I wonder if my ELO score still exists 😂
Oh I'm a MC RUclipsr by the way, you can join my discord off my channel if you wanna talk
Thank you for the statement at 1:58. My biggest issue with your first video was saying content creators are worse, without clarifying why. They are not necessarily worse, they are just trying to make the content fun. A lot of what you discussed in video 1 is stuff I learned from content creator civ players, its just not channel sustaining to play each game the most perfect way every time.
Here's what I learned, if you get room to expand to eight or nine cities unmolested by the AI, and you're not at war until turn 148 with a computer player until turn 148, and then it's your decision to go to war, you can do REAL GOOD. I'd like to see a more typical game where by around to 50 at least one AI is attacking you like a rabid junkyard dog. I think this start was so atypical it was hard to evaluate it, although I'm certainly going to try it.
I play by myself only on deity - when I do play multiplayer occasionally with friends it feels so relaxing
I was wondering when the game was gonna spawn a barb army on you. The AI will never let you cook early game - the whole game is against you
Recently discovered how complicated civ 6 actually was, you seem to really know your stuff! Thanks for the info
I love what you are doing here bro . I needed that multiplayer vid so badz
The most important thing I have realised is that at the beginning of the game, food, production, gold/ Faith is much more important. That's why the civ with bonus economy is so strong in PVP. Cause science or cultrue can't turn into food, prod or military strength. But gold and faith can turn into food, prod, science, entertainment, and military strength immediately. These things can even recruit great people. That's why we should focus on gold or faith at the beginning. Cause the diffence between 40 sci or 60 sci is only having key tech unlock faster 1 or 2 turn. But the diffrence bewteen 40 gold per turn and 60 gold per turn is enough to decide the game's winner.
I literally binged all of your videos after watching that MP one. Great channel
You did just what I expected from someone that never plays single player but knows the game extremely well. Played a relatively clean opener but underestimating the real threat in the barbarians. You did get lucky losing only a scout instead of your second city and the trader which definitely does happen a bunch if you're running no early units at all.
The biggest thing that I like is how hopefully finally the knowledge that early game culture is vital and science is a luxury stat is getting spread a bit more among the wider community.
Most of the time online strategies will work even better in SP. The few times when they don't. they are either:
a) Using the fact that the human is smart (alliances/trade/stealing)
b) Abusing human psychology (for example humans are very bad at sacrificing pieces in chess)
also in a deity game wars are common, while in a mid to high level FFA game early war isn't common because it sets back both players vs the rest of the lobby
c) greed and meta. (extremely greedy openings that just die to a commited rush can get a pass in mp coz rushes are way too risky and no one does them)
c) greed and meta. (extremely greedy openings that just die to a commited rush can get a pass in mp coz rushes are way too risky and no one does them)
I really like how this video kind of shows how different the game is when playing standard speed vs ai. And when youre online vs other people.
You said this is the last time you'd play against the AI, but please, make more videos like this. Its super useful to learn a build order. Great video!
"How did they even find me"
19:15 oh boy you're in for a world o'hurt, THE BARB TIDE NEVER ENDS
Ah man I just got finished with your Scythia game, looking forward to watching this over the next few days!
So i haven't thought about civ 6 in over 4 years, but saw that 101 guide and just decided to out eco a couple mates in mp this weekend, ones that always try optimise rushing tech. Worked out great, So thanks for atleast showing me how to get better at civ. I still seem to be behind schedule compared to that video, Only having 3, maybe 4 cities by turn 30 type of deal. But that's ok, practice and minor improvents here and there.
But the reach on that video definitely went further than just the youtube civ communities.
I mean I had just randomly decided to buy it for my niece a few weeks ago, and that was my first time playing it. Now here I am.
Really neet to see that your MP experience translates really well in to SP. Finding your content has really made me think my own game and question what are the best things to focus on.
As some one who has mostly played SP I see two big differences between SP and MP.
First is that in Deity SP barbs and AI are massive threats really early and they will ruin some games by rushing you, but after you clear the nearby barb camps and do some diplomacy to get friendships they become almost irrelevant as military threats.
Second is the amount of gold that you can suck from the AI. With mods that make trade easier you can get something like 3-5x the turn count in GPT, by trading away your spare luxuries and strategic resources.
31:48 hahaha, feel our pain!!! Every game I just want to build economy, but there is always SOMETHING that ruins your day. I think there was a patch recently that made barbarians way more aggressive too. Even though you did a really good job with scouting and clearing camps, you made the stupid (sarcasm) mistake of leaving one single tile unexplored! It's Sid Meier's law. Barb camps will always spawn on the last tile you explore.
Had someone comment about your multiplayer 101 being basically my single player strategy more or less. So with that I will say 100% your strategy will work on single player without problems.
Are you playing the BBG Mod in Single Player??
@@penknight8532 nope.
Regular game settings.
I play with the goal of winning as fast as possible.
No big surprise but the actual best strategy to win single player is pretty close to the same strategy as multiplayer.
This was exactly my thought as I watched this video.
I actually just tried this myself having found your video about competitive Civ 6 a few days ago.
I did play on Deity, with BBG and BBM mods in but nothing else (online speed), otherwise a completely vanilla game. I left my civ random and drew Hojo Tokimune.
I just launched my Earth Satellite on turn 99 and I am CRUSHING the deity AI. 600+ science per turn and the next best is 370 (also top culture btw). It seems the only primary difference between online and Deity AI is that the AI is much more likely to take you to war early.
You say at the start that you won't make another video like this but personally, i would LOVE to see more
for buying and selling luxuries to AI in SP, deity AI usually sells them really low (around the same as your deal) and buys them really high (maybe 15-20 gold per turn on the higher end, when it's worth it)
yeah that's why trading with AI in mp is strictly forbidden, they're really dumb
Totaly hear the haters scream: But you build Campus 1st! But you lost to Barbs! But you only survived by Friendship-hack, But you only won war cuz of you Civ... but but butbutbutbuttututt
:D
You made a small mistake in the early game (nerd face). It was pretty obvious that the best pantheon is God of The Open Sky (+1 culture on pastures), so buying a builder and getting those 3 pastures would yield 3 culture, 3 prod and 1.5 housing, instead of the 2 culture monument (ik that the next builder would be more expensive but its still worth it imo).
Well done on the channel, I started watching a few weeks ago and I knew immediately that you will pop off. keep it up!
And the craftsmanship boost! Which is a flat 16 culture.
That would have required teching for animal husbandry, which would have delayed commercials and made them more expensive production wise. Not necessarily a bad play, but he would have had to commit sooner than just the turn he chose to buy the monument instead.
I've been watching cpl games for a while. Generally cpl guys only go animal husbandry for temple of Artemis rush or to make tiles better. Sometimes you'll see early builder strats, but going monument first in new cities is the more common play. Culture is king until around turn 45 50 when you should have fuedalism and can start focusing on science online speed. Culture is really important early game and herson does a really good job of explaining why in his tutorials
tbh city patron would have probably been better
@herson I love your videos! I was wondering / hoping you could make a video on chopping. I understand it better now and would always chop on forest hills and where districts would be placed, but it seems you utilize them MUCH more than I ever thought to do. Maybe it because of the online speed? Arent lubber camps really good on flat ground? Anyways, would really love a video exploring all this more. Love the content, keep it up!
One big thing is to save most of your chops till you get Feudalism... it's a huge difference. If you really want to micro it, you have to tour Magnus around to all your cities as you chop the map down. If you go over to Civfanatics Forum, Victoria has a pinned guide on it. Very Detailed. Chopping out more builders with your last chop is a thing too. And if you have faith generation and monumentality... even better.
Be me
Play only on immortal
Watch these videos
Try deity for the first time and apply these concepts.
I am dog walking the AI by turn 90 on quick speed.
Guys like and share so he will do another one for clicks. Let's convert Herson to full time single player RUclipsr.
The most important thing I got from this video is that I don't need to research everything and I can just focus on one path.
I still have 0 clue on the civic tree though
i joined the server bc of ur 101 vid i rlly appreciate it, I've been looking for ranked civ forever
Ok, now try Sid Meier difficulty on that one mode that ramps up the AI's bonuses even further to test it out :)
Please consider doing this again but with BBG! Personally the pacing is a lot more enjoyable than multiplayer as there’s much less downtime. I know it’s probably not as fun as multi but it can still be very informative for both kinds of players. You could even do it on online speed or quick if you want.
Love the content!
you can get temple of artemis almost 100% of the time verse AI. coliseum is also reliable if you rush it. if you have a pretty godly culture spawn, you can sometimes get oracle. there's an outside chance you can get artemis, coliseum, and oracle in your capitol. you'd likely want to start artemis, switch to and finish oracle, start coliseum, finish artemis, finish coliseum. wonder reminder enhanced would be highly recommended, so you can see if the AI is pushing any of the wonders. canada's a good option to try for the trifecta, since you get godly camp yields and don't have to worry about being attacked by other civs. artemis and coliseum should both be reliable if you rush them. disable barbarians if you'd like for a little more opportunity with any civ. you'll probably be pretty behind in city quantity if you do this, that's your big tradeoff. outside of these three, great lighthouse, colossus, petra, and mausoleum are all relatively reliable given your spawn/build order is appropriate.
edit: hanging gardens is often available, too, but i'd only build it for era score mostly.
i think the main problem with the multiplayer strat against AI is if you spawn close to other AI then youll be forced into an early game war which this strat is awful against (seeing as the meta is against esely game wars online, but bots dont care about that)
but the reason why it would work is because it lets you put up a defense not that it will stop a war
This was my first thought as well. Greedily delaying science sounds like a disaster if you get surprise-declared on turn 25.
Same opinion here. I think the strats from multiplayer are the most effective, but the games are tailored for them so you can rush Comm Hub/Harbor/HS on 3 cities with golden ages... but all that goes out the window when Deity AI funnel their excess units at your turn 15 while they settle their 2 extra settlers to outpace your science. You hope they don't tech the OP units in each era and are set back 50 turns.
glad to see im not the only one who thinks this way. ofc if both players play ideally like on comp then its a good strat, but against AI you at least need archers i think in case of a war
Doesn't matter, you can defend easily because the ai is terrible at attacking even with cheats, and you will eventually surpass the ai or at the very least keep up with them
your video made perfect sense. another advantage of building commercial districts and industrial zones is the AI doesn't do it and you can get great people easier, they are always competing for great scientists
I only started playing civ6 and your videos were really helpful in understandin how to actually play the game right
“Pingala…..this dude’s…brrrrroken”
Clear description of Pingala
Thank YOU sir for providng us with such comprehendsive and good guides!
Love the quality content, keep it up homie
I have only seen one Twitch streamer who actually goes for optimization, but he does reload a lot. Then again, his approach gets him sub-180 victories on Standard even without reloads, so going for optimization over what seems like what would be good for the game does make for better play. It all depends on what you consider to be optimal
Idk what’s going on but I’m glad RUclips recommended this I love when new blood goes straight for the jugular and the community flips in on itself 🤣
I checked out of Civ VI long ago after my favourite used-to-be-Civ creator, FilthyRobot, ditched the game, but your video about Civ VI multiplayer fundamental picked my interest since ever since watching competitive Civ V I got rid of the notion that playing Civ in SP, as entertaining as it is, is anything remotely close to being optimal. Beating the "AI", which historically was always an idiot given a lot of free cash in various forms, doesn't require some intricate and wholly different skillset incomprehensible to a player that needs to beat an actual human player who wants to beat them with an actual brain in their skull.
I get that people like to think that they beat Deity regularly or always, and they want to lull themselves into thinking that they're "as good as they can be" at the game, and multiplayer is "a whole other game" and their skill is valid. So by protesting against the observable fact that a multiplayer Civ player easily smokes SP content creators they are trying to protect their own egos.
I haven't played a single turn of MP Civ in my life, and I just accept the fact that if my aim was to get good at Civ the way to do it would be to try to play multi on a decent level, and if I just play Civ like I used to - so, as a source of my leisure after work - I'll be pretty awful at it, no matter how handily I can manage AI. And it's pretty logical that fundamentals of MP optimal play will also translate to SP success because at the end of the day Civ is a large engine building board game so of course engine creation strategies used to beat a good player (human) without head start will work against a really bad player (AI) that was given head start.
CPL/MP changed the game with the BBG Mod.
You really can't compare MP and SP anymore.
Two different games IMO.
@@penknight8532 yeah, changed the game for better balance so more civs are viable to win. If the games are so "different" then clearly MP must be the harder game since the MP player mops the floor with SP players when having a weak start. If playing that different game of MP makes you so much stronger in that game of SP Civ, then the only conclusion can be that the MP environment requires more tactical and strategic skill.
Of course they're not different games. Balance or not (in this very video the euthor turns it off, thats the point of it), the principles and mechanics are the same. The focal point is "do you prioritize campuses because of 'science is king' zinger" like SP content creators do or "do you prioritize commercial districts", like apparently the MP meta is. And you just can see the winning strategy in both is the same
"two different games" is the cope this video is directly tackling
Can you please do a Poundmaker Civ spotlight? I’ve seen a lot of people dominate with him and get a ton of science despite the fact that he has absolutely no science bonus at all whatsoever. The previous multiplayer science victory record was even set with him. If you do, I will thank you in advance now.
I had THE perfect Deity game as Gaul a few days back. Had my fourth city down, everything lined up, timing perfect, scouts finding all of the right things, perfect city placements, etc. I finally destroy and invading barb camp, to find TWO MORE CAMPS sending horseman at me. Rip.
My favorite part of this video is when I learned that you can put any card in the wildcard slot. I'm going to take a wild guess that that's why they call it the wildcard slot. Duh, winning!
This is pretty cool, and overall I wish I found your vids sooner - maybe I would like 6 more if I did. Do you plan on doing videos on builds instead of general strategies? For example - I loved playing Morroco in 5 and using all of its abilities, wonders and policies to become rich and then buy every plane I want and win. Big Ben was the best! But I can't seem to figure out anything in similar vein, even outside of money.
I also struggle managing more then 4 cities. It would be cool to know how you keep up - though I would assume having a build helps.
EDIT: Like the Stonehenge video! That one was the stuff.
I watched a couple of multiplayer videos of yours, didn't know what mods you were using or what difficulty it was set to.. It seems like everything was overpowered extra production bonuses from builders, reduced building times, crazy pantheons etc.. Also almost no barbs ever.. Watching you play unmodded, I just thought to myself, yep this is more like my experience of Civ... Not saying you aren't skilled, but the no hyper ott start, followed by 31.50 'OMG! What is this? As three barb horsemen rock up out of the fog.. made me chuckle
It was interesting to see a way the BBG mod makes the early game meta work better, with no negative amenities from low pop cities. Vanilla seems to encourage you to build builders or slow down expanding. It's still not optimal to stop making settlers and start flooding builders of course, but it's interesting how the game tries to dissuade you from optimal play.
it's funny that the devs focus mainly on singleplayer but at the same time the player can't completely experience great wonders or great people because of the amount of bonuses the ai gets.
Yeah... that's why you let the AI build them for you and you take them by force.
Damn that’s pretty cool
I take it back. Good strat, will copy.
Also hi herson thanks for reading the comments
I wrote comment in the original guide video asking about if that strat could work in single and speculating that it wont work at the same level as it works in multi becouse ai starts with a massive army
after I wrote that I did give it a try and I must say it works like a charm just likw the multi the probably biggest diffrence that you should be doing from the general multiplayer strategy is that yoy should be making more early game units for defence and thats it
Go Herson go!
Great Video and I would love to see more of these Deity SP run-throughs but you proved that your Single Player Strategies need work. You didn't abuse the AI Trade at all in the early game. You can buy up 20 Diplo Points for 1 gold and sell them back later for massive gold. You crushed the game but the pros over on Civfanatics beat SP Standard/Standard Deity by around turn 90 to 160 depending on map/civ. That's actually getting to the Victory Screen. The game is completely different compared to the MP/BBG/CPL games but that doesn't mean that MP Strategy won't beat Deity AI. You had better than average starting land. Try it when you got horrible plains/grass tiles mixed in with tundra and no hills. You got a bit lucky that the Barbs only brought 3 horsey :) ... I didn't even see you abuse any of the Science Overflow.
As for pace, I'd shoot for 100 science 100 culture by turn 100. A turn 200 win is very good, but usually requires a great spawn, good civ and a ton of trade deal min-maxing. I'd still say your pace was good, as your prod econ was really strong.
I'm curious what it'd look like if you did play with mods, but I wouldn't force you to play another full game for that.
Atleast PMW doesn't go into dark ages, and honestly, it seemed you struggled all the way. On the other hand its good to see a "pro" with a little struggle and how you reacted to it shows the casual players how a deity game usually goes. Overall, gg.
You could have picked one of the completely busted civs without bbg but you even went with abraham who got buffed in bbg
I know you said you're never doing single player again, but I thought this was a great video, and seeing how it's the 2nd most popular video you've put out, I think a lot of others agree with me.
Amazing vid! How does this strat change with Faith based civs tho? Do you build Holy Sites and Commercial Hubs/Harbors, or just Holy Sites?
I feel like the biggest difference between MP and SP, is that the AI isn’t as aggressive with colonizing so there’s more barbs
Just played a game with this kind of approach as Rough Rider Teddy and won Diplo, Culture, and Science victories by turn 244. I think it works!
Commercial Hubs First is a very strong opener on Pangea. You pretty much get all the Great Merchants unless Mali is in your game.
For those who says pro multiplayers struggle in deity, I strongly disagree. But trying to prove it will also not summarize the situation here. I understand the 2 scout opener in general but in single player against Deity that would work until you saw a barbarian scout with exclamation mark on his head. Out of 8/10 games you will likely to encounter barbarian camp around 5-7 tiles next to your capital that will make tons of units until you clear it and make you lose tempo. Also there are some situations that barbarians will advance in tech and start to spam swordsmen. Other one is the situation that that you'll get a 2 or more barbarian camps near your capital. In that case you have to adjust your game plan dynamically and avoid going for memorized/meta way.
I agree that campus opener doesn't really matter against AI since they do not have the capability of going for just single victory condition rather they try to go for every win condition equally and thats your win condition in the long run. If you're next to agressive civ you're more likely to defend it with simple 3 archers and 1-2 warriors because AI doesn't really give a s** about your city if there are some units next to it. If not, you will more likely to spot several units of a civ that about to attack you going slowly toward your city so that you' will get a hint whether they'll attack you or not so you will have a brief moment to prepare.
Overall, If barbarians doesn't ruin your early game you will more likely to win every Deity game whatever you picked for the opener. So beating Deity in potato's way or pro MP player's way isn't really the case here. In Singleplayer if you know how AI works, you'll be just fine. In multiplayer, you can't know how an individual would act so you go for memorized/meta openers for each civ. Also playing single player with vanilla and playing mp with BBG is not the same thing and I strongly oppose whoever trying to compare them. Notice that in BBG MP you don't get punished for not clearing barb camps because you got a +10 attack so even the scout can out-damage the barbarians.
-Note: Btw my opinions does not include ''BBG in single player''. Trying BBG in singleplayer have very different experience than vanilla. I could tell it would be more hell since AI also gets Deity bonuses (for production science etc.) and BBG bonuses at the same time so if you're playing BBG in single player and you're next to a civ, you're more likely to die early on. They product everything super faster than usual with Deity + BBG bonuses. Since they start with 5 warriors and 3 settlers and each cities gets boosted science, culture and production bonuses so don't surprise if they attack you with man-at-arms at turn 30 while you just completed a commercial hub/campus buildings.
Last Game I had an aggressive Dido next to me and she got suzerain of Akkad! She brought 5 warriors and so did Akkad. Game did not end well because I didn't rush archery and my Army explored a couple of tiles too far lol.
Another day another Herson banger.
One question tho, what is the rationale behind settling next to two volcanoes?
I just didn't really have anywhere better to settle. I was looking for terrain which had some chops and was hilly so I could build mines. The fact that volcanos happened to be in those spots was a coincidence
@@HersonCivThanks for the answer, makes sense. I'm going through the video, about 2/3 through and I have one more question, what's up with no walls/skipping over city center improvements?
Isn't selecting Abundant Resources/Srategics used in multiplayer to speed the game up on top of using online speed? Why select these options when playing Deity..? Same with selecting New for World Age..
Dont worry about the negative comments bro, every RUclipsr gets a plethora of them when a vid blows up the majority of us love your content ❤
The single player RUclipsrs can’t handle the stress of multiplayer, ruins the cozy vibe dynamic of their streams.
Little disappointing to not see herson square off against an aggressive early ai deity war, but herson definitely knows how to be flexible with his game play. Can't win in a cpl lobby if you can't early war or adjust on the go
savage video herson 😂 good response to the stubborn sp andies