@@FirstLast-tx3yj i did a whole bunch of mods to the engine so thats probably most of the power gains but how fast it starts, i think it helps.... i did it more for longevity vs performance and thats the better way to look at it
Thank you Mike, this solves an issue with using teflon additive in oils to reduce friction. WPC allows the rings to both improve wear resistance and not lose the slipperiness due to flame burn. Fantastic!!!
Im betting the mechanical friction losses come from the reduced contact surface. This coupled with the increased surface area for oil to dwell in really makes this process a marvel of engineering
I've watched this video a few times and each time I learn something new. Today I learned DLC and WPC work together, and side-coated piston skirts with WPC is less common. I've seen DLC applications for every component of the piston, and love to see it with the WPC treatment done first. How does it, or doesn't it, affect friction, lubricity, and overall wear/performance? Great video - I'm setting a reminder to watch it again in a month.😉😎
@@motoiq sir, i still had silly question, but u think effective is effective we use ceramic coating on piston crown ( for reducing heat ofc) coz, in my mind if can combo WPC + ceramic coating crown its so overkill
I WPC a lot of parts on my cars. Including shift knobs, shifter lever, valvetrain parts, clutch fork, clutch release bearing and clutch slave cylinder piston/cylinder.
Awesome video! You covered so many possible uses but didn't mention the fastest spinning thing in a car - a turbo! Have you tried WPC treating turbo internals for faster spool / better transient response etc?
Its pretty expensive to do an engine back to back. We did do my daughters kart engine and it gained 0.2 hp which is pretty good on a 9 hp engine. It cut almost a second off her lap times.
@@motoiq Thanks for the reply! I understand its expensive to rebuild motors, but if a known engine is going to be rebuilt it seems it would be relatively easy to remove the spark plugs on the engine in question & do a before & after by use of a torque wrench. I have done something similar with engines before & after with synthetics. Anyways, always learning from the good videos you produce.
I WPC treated my BMW S54 crank, rod bearings and main bearings, VANOS oil pump and oil pump itself, everyone that drives my car that owns a real M3, notices that my car is a lot more responsive.
Came to your channel by way of High Performance Academy. Stoked to find another exceptional resource for a nerdy hobbyist like myself! Great content here
Amazing, I remember first seeing a video on WPC treatment years ago and thinking this might have huge implications for engine internals, and now I see it's been done and works. Now I really wonder if this could help make a turbo rotary more durable and powerful.
@@motoiq here's a video of WPC in Japan, which includes DLC. Looks like WPC is micro-shotpeening surfaces with Tungsten. ruclips.net/video/-NKbtFEb2dc/видео.html
For valve springws, does this modify the K in F=Kx? For piston rings does it modify the compliance (I'm not sure the term, but hoop strength (It's basically a spring)? I want to be really clear on this... from your experience, does the overall dimension change? I know you said in the video the tolerance does not change, but surely the nominal value would, right? Finally, please just do more videos. I love them. Best on the web for automotive tech!
You mentioned WPC treating titanium valve stems, has that eliminated any galling and cut down the wear within the guides? I really want to use the WPC on my Gen 3 hemi on the springs, valves, especially the rocker shafts. I wish more people would document the use of WPC. I've only utilized it on a VK56DE oil pump housing and gears. Would really like to try it on my triumph 675 triple engine and trans.
I’m extremely curious if this would solve the cam/lifter issues that the hemi and ls engines have. This treatment sounds like it can used to not only possibly solve those issues with cylinder deactivation engines, but also add to the efficiency of the engine as well. Taking a v8 that shuts off 4 cylinders and reducing friction by up to 50% makes low load cruising more economical, while also freeing some power and lowering temps when under full load. Hmmm.
It sucks that the simpler design of ohv single cam engines are naturally going to have extra resistance. Although when you turn them by hand, ohc engines still have about the same resistance. I think that's more in part caused by the chain or belt length. Subarus being a perfect example, I'm not exactly sure what the hemis problem is but I heard it was just poor quality steel being used in combination with cheap lifters. They aren't terrible lifters but they obviously have a typical life span. I'm just guessing cause the predecessor to the hemi, the magnum engines hardly ever had lifter issues. Although I don't know how the cylinder shut down works so that could be the whole reason why but this is just my thought on it
I'm sold, I almost wished.I hadn't seen this video. I have 2 wheelbarrows worth of stuff i would like to send. Lol I have. Extravagant taste for a poor boy. My LS build is going to miss out. But I will most definitely Be sending my Clutch plates For my open primary shovelhead in the Future. Hum? Axles, lifters, Litter blocks, push rods, springs, rockers,piston. OK Everything but the seat, foot pegs, and handlebars 😏
real question always is how much does it cost? And if WPC makes the friction lower, wouldn't putting it on clutch packs just cause it to slip more and engage less?
For an inline 6 crankshaft is $310, for each shell of the rod bearing or crank its $12, each cylinder bore is $100, very reasonable prices, Also it increased lubricity which in hand is good for clutch packs, that's why they have friction modifiers for the oil.
Thank you!! Now I gotta rip apart my f20b to do all of this lol but seriously thank you I'm definitely doing this to my f20b and my ys1 Gs-R transmission.
Change in surface hardness aside. These tests all look impressive however I wonder how different these tests would perform when oil is introduced as in actual operating conditions.
I think the main benefit of this treatment is when oil is not present, or atleast not enough of it to avoid some friction. It looks like creates microstructure finish that retains a coating of oil that surfaces glide on.
That’s what I’m thinking, a lot of these rotating assembly parts have a thin film of oil between the contact. Lol I’m sure this helps A little but depending on how expensive it is, is it worth it? Who knows
I'm wondering if the WPC treatment would be good for the friction surfaces in an AR-15. Maybe even a muzzle treatment to increase velocity and consistency. I already know that you can get a DLC bolt carrier group for them. I'm wondering if the combination of the tube would go really good into increasing reliability and velocity / accuracy.
@@motoiq Excellent! I'm wondering if the process would be able to be done inside the bore of a barrel. I understand the concept of how it works but I don't know much about the process. I don't know if you could get the equipment inside such a small hole or how it would affect the rifling. I know a lot of people including myself run stainless barrels in their precision competition guns. That could be a game changer if it's possible. By the way, thank you for your response. I really appreciate it and did not expect it.
its hard to get the medium to hit at the right angles inside the bore. I tried it on a glock with a stainless barrel and it only got the ramp and chamber. That gun is easy to clean! From what I understand, some military units use the process on their SAW's due to a friend of mine that does special stuff, he says the cyclic rate and reliability go way up, especially on the M249spw
@@motoiq I had a feeling that might be the case. Maybe as time and technology progress the ability to perform a treatment inside the bore may become a possibility at some point. Regardless, it's an excellent technology that should get more applications than it does.
I have heard that (proper) Cryo treatment combined with WPC treatment can even further extend the durability of any stressed prone parts. Unfortunately most of those claims have come from vendors so I would love to hear what your personal experience has found on the matter. So, what do you think of cry treatment?(with or without WPC)
We find that the biggest increases are in wear resistance. Usually at least 50% better. Cryo helps abrasion resistance to some degree and helps in fatigue strength by at least 50%. It's not going to make crappy metal or an underdesigned part amazing but it will make it last 2x longer before it breaks.
The pebble surface makes since that things spin longer on top of it compared to glass smooth surface since it’s less area of contact which would reduce overall friction.
Seems crazy that you could make a surface more dense through shot peening, without effecting the tolerances at all. Do you think that is down to the dry lubricant being left impregnated in the surface of the parts? I guess it could also be that the surface change is so small it doesn’t effect clearances 🤔 either way seems like a great service! Shame it’s doesn’t appear to be available across the pond.
@@SylasG I find WPC coatings excellent, I lighten by grinding all my parts on my Norton race engines, just plain shot peening by a knowledgable source can strengthen an undisturbed steel conrod by up to 20%. The key is "a knowledgable source" I use a company that peens the root radius of Bell helicopter variable pitch Blades. I wpc my aluminum parts and Babbit shells minimum excellent. This was F1 Tech only.
Man, You the man, Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I’ve always been a piston head 😵💫. I’m just starting with (Old School SBC racer😵💫) LS engines 1 LSA and just finished a LS 9. One question if you don’t mind. What is the red coating that GM puts on the bearings? The bearings I took out of both engines look brand new .
Followers used was different from one another so I say not a valid test take two brand new ones then do it . Or if you want to stick with used ones use the same one . There is a cone built to the top surface and one was warn so it was flat would not spin as good. Other one still had the cone shape on the bottom that helps it spin .
Nice to know that he's an authorized dealer for this product/service. I'm making arrangements to replace my LS3 with a Dart LS 7.0, and I may choose MotoIQ for the build. Unfortunately, my preferred builder would probably tell me this stuff isn't necessary. I'm sure many of us know that engine builders are set in their ways and do not like to deviate from what they normally do.
I was building a motor for my Mazdaspeed 6 and had the Pistons, rings, and bearings WPC. I sold the build before I got to finish it. My question is, have you had similar builds that you have had one with several components WPC treated, and the other without any WPC and could quantify any performance increase? Like has the WPC one had higher output due to the reduction in friction?
On a car, it is super expensive to do an A to B test on WPC only but I have done it on a go-kart engine, on my daughter 50cc two-stroke Kart, it gave .2 more hp on a 3 hp motor and took a second of her lap time on a 1.03-second track. When she moved to 100cc karts it gained .3 hp on a 9 hp engine and gave her just under a second improvement on a 37 second a lap track. These are spec motors but the WPC isn't detectable and pass tech. For cars, the engine life is greatly increased, that's for sure. Also when a new engine is being turned by hand while being assembled, the friction is way less and the engine spins a lot easier.
hmm if you get more strength then i would think the important parts could be made a lot lighter with less material. that rod pin is a good example. maybe a good idea to make it smaller if its so strong already. I wonder with the new things coming out like with porsche trying to 3d print pistons, combine the additive minimal design/hollow pistons with a wpc process, and see how light the inertia sensitive parts of an engine could get down to. would like to see higher revs even in commuter econo box cars with variable valve timing. im sure GM will still find a way to engineer things to break 1000 miles after warenty lol
What does WPC recommend for surface prep? Depending on that, I could tell you what's in it. If it's heat vs acid etch for instance; moly is an acid etch if memory serves, and if there's a heat chaser, ptfe or graphite is involved. All of those are friction modifiers, though moly has that dull silvery grey surface appearance.
@@motoiq Interesting. I misunderstood and thought this was like a send-out service, but if I understand correctly now, this is like a product that is forcefully applied like a reverse sandblast or kind of like an anodizing treatment (in terms of surface transfer) of sorts? Initially I had in my mind that is was being done as an industrial hot tank process where the product was surface bonding chemically.
@@motoiq I very much appreciate your having expanded my wheelhouse to the product. I'm occasionally guilty of getting to that point where you try a lot of things but stick with what you know works or make one yourself. Outside of nitriding which isn't really what I'd consider long-term durable on hard-wearing surfaces but better than nothing, Cerakoting or products like it were something I'd turn to on occasion if it wasn't like a bearing or journal surface. More often than not, I'm more concerned (in my field anyway) about thermal protection than metal-to-metal contact and fell back on oil additives for the heavy lifting with asperations to finding something better one day. 😉
So When my and my sons mx bikes need new piston i can send it off to you for wcp treatment and it will fit straight back in cylinder ok on 2000 cr250 and 05 kx85
Can you do a video on cryogenic treatment, and which engine parts to treat? I know it's good, but I'm not sure exactly what parts to do, and exactly why
Great vid, thank you. Maybe a stupid question, but didn't see it commented below, nor in the vid. Is this WPC suitable for brake rotors? Obviously reduced friction is a bad idea there, but if this could be overcome with longer bed in process similar to piston rings, maybe after that is not a bad thing to have for increased rotor life?
since WPC only affects the surface, and rotor wear is measured in mm, not microns, it'd probably go away pretty quickly. You'd probably get a bit more rotor life (see Porsche's Tungsten carbide coated rotors) with soft street pads, but I imagine that with metallic race pads, you'd immediately annihilate the surface, and have trouble bedding in the pads.
How do you add WPC treatment ? I watched videos of people ceramic coating but I can't see any video on : how WPC is achieved on engine components... Probably you could answer me?
is there any sort of testing that anyone can share that proof this works? Like I want to see a turbo spool faster with a before an after test or anything that tells me it is worth doing it because of x
What a fascinating explanation of this metal treatment process. I am going to contact these guys when it's time to rebuild the engine on my 370Z. I wonder if this process could be applied to aluminum connecting rods to make them more durable for long-term use in street engines.
On a car, it is super expensive to do an A to B test on WPC only but I have done it on a go-kart engine, on my daughter 50cc two-stroke Kart, it gave .2 more hp on a 3 hp motor and took a second of her lap time on a 1.03-second track. When she moved to 100cc karts it gained .3 hp on a 9 hp engine and gave her just under a second improvement on a 37 second a lap track. These are spec motors but the WPC isn't detectable and pass tech. For cars, the engine life is greatly increased, that's for sure. Also when a new engine is being turned by hand while being assembled, the friction is way less and the engine spins a lot easier.
I don't understand the benefit to WPC treatment on clutch plates in a DCT, is friction not the mechanism for engagement? If you were to reduce the friction would the clutches be more prone to slipping and then would increase wear? I must be missing something
I feel like I wouldn’t want my clutch done because I want more friction to hold my power. Will it last longer yeah but If I’m racing I want my clutch to hold
Can this be done on used stock components, or do the parts need to be brand new? I’m thinking stock cams on my f20c once I’m already in there upgrading my springs and retainers. Thanks!
Mike always looks like he's about to drop the punchline of a dad joke. I could listen to him talk shop all day.
He seems like a sincere, good guy to do business with
Yes lol
For 125 an hour you can
@@tomop5603 125$ an hour? Daym that's why he is so smiley :D
Lmao i didn't know what you meant but this until literally the first 3 seconds of the video
Damn near my whole motorcycle engine is WPC treated. This stuff is the real deal, no doubt.
How long do you have it like that? Any negatives?
Did you notice any difference in how smooth the engine runs and how fast it accelerates??
@@bluewanderer9903 2 solid years now, no issues
@@FirstLast-tx3yj i did a whole bunch of mods to the engine so thats probably most of the power gains but how fast it starts, i think it helps.... i did it more for longevity vs performance and thats the better way to look at it
@@thejayvodlexperience7856 did you do it yourself??
Appreciate the enthusiasm Mr. Kojima, you really are a legend among the industry.
Thank you Mike, this solves an issue with using teflon additive in oils to reduce friction. WPC allows the rings to both improve wear resistance and not lose the slipperiness due to flame burn. Fantastic!!!
Im betting the mechanical friction losses come from the reduced contact surface. This coupled with the increased surface area for oil to dwell in really makes this process a marvel of engineering
I've watched this video a few times and each time I learn something new. Today I learned DLC and WPC work together, and side-coated piston skirts with WPC is less common. I've seen DLC applications for every component of the piston, and love to see it with the WPC treatment done first. How does it, or doesn't it, affect friction, lubricity, and overall wear/performance? Great video - I'm setting a reminder to watch it again in a month.😉😎
We found that coating doesnt stick to a WPC treated piston that well.
@@motoiq sir, i still had silly question, but u think effective is effective we use ceramic coating on piston crown ( for reducing heat ofc) coz, in my mind if can combo WPC + ceramic coating crown its so overkill
Your enthusiasm for your work and methods is contagious.
Now i want to build an engine and coat everything with wpc
Not a coating.. its a micro dimpling surface treatment
@@jamesdills6720 yea sorry that what i meant
I heard doing the cylinder walls is actually not too good, because the rings never want to break-in.
Martini is a wino he said in the video that it takes a couple more dyno pulls to seat the rings.
Hope you rich
Getting my buckets and my kelford cams done for my 7age 20v engine
my CP Carrillo rods are WPC treated, just learned that by looking back at my build sheet after this video
I WPC a lot of parts on my cars. Including shift knobs, shifter lever, valvetrain parts, clutch fork, clutch release bearing and clutch slave cylinder piston/cylinder.
surely you wouldnt want less friction on the shift knob lol
Do you do it yourself? Because its expensive isnt it?
Awesome video! You covered so many possible uses but didn't mention the fastest spinning thing in a car - a turbo! Have you tried WPC treating turbo internals for faster spool / better transient response etc?
Good thinking.
Also, wheel bearings ...
@@bluewanderer9903 also, damper rods and tubes
Turbos are already set up for tolerances as low as .00005"
I wonder how this affects oil film /movement of oil across the surfaces. For example, would it reduce the tendency of oil to "stick"?
This is one of my favorite channels by far.
Sir, ur smile makes the topic a cherry on top of the cake..godspeed
I don't know why I find his voice so soothing, even when talking about the most boring shit
Ok, I thought I kinda knew what WPC was all about but now I REALLY know!! Thanks Mike!! So good to meet them irl with you last week at PRI! :)
I love the word 'lubricity'
Sure would be cool to see a complete engine before & after coated, torque to turn on the engine stand. Or before & after on the dyno.
Its pretty expensive to do an engine back to back. We did do my daughters kart engine and it gained 0.2 hp which is pretty good on a 9 hp engine. It cut almost a second off her lap times.
@@motoiq Thanks for the reply! I understand its expensive to rebuild motors, but if a known engine is going to be rebuilt it seems it would be relatively easy to remove the spark plugs on the engine in question & do a before & after by use of a torque wrench. I have done something similar with engines before & after with synthetics. Anyways, always learning from the good videos you produce.
@@motoiqdid you cryo treat the kart engine as well?
I WPC treated my BMW S54 crank, rod bearings and main bearings, VANOS oil pump and oil pump itself, everyone that drives my car that owns a real M3, notices that my car is a lot more responsive.
Very smart. Especially on the oil pump. How much did everything cost you
@@ALW96 the crank was $310, everything else added up to another $200 maybe, very cost effective.
@@SavageBunny1 where did you get these services done?
@@jt-iu3kv CTP CRYOGENICS in California
I'm building my 2.0L Alfa Romeo twin-cam Nord engine. Bringing my crank, bearings, oilpump gears, pistons, rings, rods, cylinders, etc to WPC.
I WPC myself, it's that great!
How do you do it?
@@polipochilegge to find an answer to that question, use your imagination 😁
WPC IS LITERALLY MY FAVOURITE THING
Don't know how I ended up here but strangely the man makes me feel happy.
I really appreciate this video as I'll likely be using WPC on my next built VQ37VHR. Keep it up with the great content and insight!
Came to your channel by way of High Performance Academy. Stoked to find another exceptional resource for a nerdy hobbyist like myself! Great content here
Welcome aboard!
Amazing, I remember first seeing a video on WPC treatment years ago and thinking this might have huge implications for engine internals, and now I see it's been done and works. Now I really wonder if this could help make a turbo rotary more durable and powerful.
It works really well on rotary engines.
@@motoiq Oh no shit! Not too surprised, good to know, thanks!!
@@motoiq here's a video of WPC in Japan, which includes DLC. Looks like WPC is micro-shotpeening surfaces with Tungsten.
ruclips.net/video/-NKbtFEb2dc/видео.html
yea, i would figure it will work great in the housing and rotors itself
@@thomaschung5623 apex seals could have huge benefit from this
Your way of explaining is very deep and thorough. Thanks for this awesome video.
MR Miyagi of Engines boys!
Got a Sr20det piston and rings, crank and bearing wpc treatment 10 years ago and the motor is still going. Did wish we did the camshaft.
For valve springws, does this modify the K in F=Kx? For piston rings does it modify the compliance (I'm not sure the term, but hoop strength (It's basically a spring)? I want to be really clear on this... from your experience, does the overall dimension change? I know you said in the video the tolerance does not change, but surely the nominal value would, right? Finally, please just do more videos. I love them. Best on the web for automotive tech!
No it does not change K or do any dimensional change down to tenths which is the best we can measure.
Wish there was a place in Australia for WPC :(
Japan / California
Japan would be pretty cheap for an Aussie esp if u lived up north
I want to WPC everything now!
You mentioned WPC treating titanium valve stems, has that eliminated any galling and cut down the wear within the guides? I really want to use the WPC on my Gen 3 hemi on the springs, valves, especially the rocker shafts. I wish more people would document the use of WPC. I've only utilized it on a VK56DE oil pump housing and gears.
Would really like to try it on my triumph 675 triple engine and trans.
WPC works on the driver, engine builder, body builder, tire guy, etc!
LOL!
What are your thoughts on WPC treating oil pump internals?
He already did a video on an Honda k series and he wpc the internals for less friction and less heat.
@@joseacuna3239 and to help reduce the chance that the gears might break.
I’m extremely curious if this would solve the cam/lifter issues that the hemi and ls engines have. This treatment sounds like it can used to not only possibly solve those issues with cylinder deactivation engines, but also add to the efficiency of the engine as well. Taking a v8 that shuts off 4 cylinders and reducing friction by up to 50% makes low load cruising more economical, while also freeing some power and lowering temps when under full load. Hmmm.
It sucks that the simpler design of ohv single cam engines are naturally going to have extra resistance. Although when you turn them by hand, ohc engines still have about the same resistance. I think that's more in part caused by the chain or belt length. Subarus being a perfect example, I'm not exactly sure what the hemis problem is but I heard it was just poor quality steel being used in combination with cheap lifters. They aren't terrible lifters but they obviously have a typical life span. I'm just guessing cause the predecessor to the hemi, the magnum engines hardly ever had lifter issues. Although I don't know how the cylinder shut down works so that could be the whole reason why but this is just my thought on it
Love listening to this guy talk
I'm sold, I almost wished.I hadn't seen this video. I have 2 wheelbarrows worth of stuff i would like to send. Lol I have.
Extravagant taste for a poor boy. My LS build is going to miss out. But I will most definitely Be sending my Clutch plates For my open primary shovelhead in the Future. Hum? Axles, lifters, Litter blocks, push rods, springs, rockers,piston. OK Everything but the seat, foot pegs, and handlebars 😏
Excellent advice, backed up by real world testing!
Very interesting surface substrate refinishing methodologies. I like it.
real question always is how much does it cost? And if WPC makes the friction lower, wouldn't putting it on clutch packs just cause it to slip more and engage less?
For an inline 6 crankshaft is $310, for each shell of the rod bearing or crank its $12, each cylinder bore is $100, very reasonable prices, Also it increased lubricity which in hand is good for clutch packs, that's why they have friction modifiers for the oil.
100$ a cylinder? Geez
@@SavageBunny1 Only $310? That is nothing compared to repairing or replacing an entire engine. That little money to double my engine life is pennies.
Thank you!! Now I gotta rip apart my f20b to do all of this lol but seriously thank you I'm definitely doing this to my f20b and my ys1 Gs-R transmission.
Change in surface hardness aside.
These tests all look impressive however I wonder how different these tests would perform when oil is introduced as in actual operating conditions.
I think the main benefit of this treatment is when oil is not present, or atleast not enough of it to avoid some friction. It looks like creates microstructure finish that retains a coating of oil that surfaces glide on.
That’s what I’m thinking, a lot of these rotating assembly parts have a thin film of oil between the contact. Lol I’m sure this helps A little but depending on how expensive it is, is it worth it? Who knows
I'm wondering if the WPC treatment would be good for the friction surfaces in an AR-15. Maybe even a muzzle treatment to increase velocity and consistency. I already know that you can get a DLC bolt carrier group for them. I'm wondering if the combination of the tube would go really good into increasing reliability and velocity / accuracy.
If it is a phosphated bolt yes for sure. Haven't tried it on nitrided, or chrome yet.
@@motoiq Excellent! I'm wondering if the process would be able to be done inside the bore of a barrel. I understand the concept of how it works but I don't know much about the process. I don't know if you could get the equipment inside such a small hole or how it would affect the rifling. I know a lot of people including myself run stainless barrels in their precision competition guns. That could be a game changer if it's possible. By the way, thank you for your response. I really appreciate it and did not expect it.
its hard to get the medium to hit at the right angles inside the bore. I tried it on a glock with a stainless barrel and it only got the ramp and chamber. That gun is easy to clean! From what I understand, some military units use the process on their SAW's due to a friend of mine that does special stuff, he says the cyclic rate and reliability go way up, especially on the M249spw
@@motoiq I had a feeling that might be the case. Maybe as time and technology progress the ability to perform a treatment inside the bore may become a possibility at some point. Regardless, it's an excellent technology that should get more applications than it does.
He looks like he always about 1 second away from roasting you.
😂😂😅
Don’t wpc you disk brakes, great video
I noticed I’m smiling while watching Mike. 😅😂
I guess it’s kind of like yawning. 😂
I have heard that (proper) Cryo treatment combined with WPC treatment can even further extend the durability of any stressed prone parts. Unfortunately most of those claims have come from vendors so I would love to hear what your personal experience has found on the matter. So, what do you think of cry treatment?(with or without WPC)
We find that the biggest increases are in wear resistance. Usually at least 50% better. Cryo helps abrasion resistance to some degree and helps in fatigue strength by at least 50%. It's not going to make crappy metal or an underdesigned part amazing but it will make it last 2x longer before it breaks.
His smile makes me smile
The pebble surface makes since that things spin longer on top of it compared to glass smooth surface since it’s less area of contact which would reduce overall friction.
Seems crazy that you could make a surface more dense through shot peening, without effecting the tolerances at all.
Do you think that is down to the dry lubricant being left impregnated in the surface of the parts? I guess it could also be that the surface change is so small it doesn’t effect clearances 🤔 either way seems like a great service! Shame it’s doesn’t appear to be available across the pond.
WPC has less effect on surface dimensions than shot peen.
@@SylasG I find WPC coatings excellent, I lighten by grinding all my parts on my Norton race engines, just plain shot peening by a knowledgable source can strengthen an undisturbed steel conrod by up to 20%. The key is "a knowledgable source" I use a company that peens the root radius of Bell helicopter variable pitch Blades. I wpc my aluminum parts and Babbit shells minimum excellent. This was F1 Tech only.
Would this treatment improve the efficiency of positive displacement supercharger rotors?
Man, You the man, Thanks for sharing your knowledge. I’ve always been a piston head 😵💫. I’m just starting with (Old School SBC racer😵💫) LS engines 1 LSA and just finished a LS 9. One question if you don’t mind. What is the red coating that GM puts on the bearings? The bearings I took out of both engines look brand new .
It's an anti scuff coating for initial startup.
@@motoiq must be good stuff the lsa had 16,000 miles on it and the bearings and the crank looked brand new. Thank you for the response. Batman 😎
I’d like to see you build two identical short blocks - one with WPC and one without WPC treatment. Then turn the crank and measure the resistance.
if you pay for it we will gladly do it and any other tests you can pay for!
Another great vid!
Would this treatment be overkill for a street engine?
We like it especially for daily drivers that do a lot of miles.
Followers used was different from one another so I say not a valid test take two brand new ones then do it . Or if you want to stick with used ones use the same one . There is a cone built to the top surface and one was warn so it was flat would not spin as good. Other one still had the cone shape on the bottom that helps it spin .
Excellent video, can you do a video of WPC vs. Teflon coating? Thanks.
Awesome demonstration of how well the wpc coating works!! Top notch for sure!! Hey just out of curiousity... You need a shop hand by any chance lol?
Nice to know that he's an authorized dealer for this product/service. I'm making arrangements to replace my LS3 with a Dart LS 7.0, and I may choose MotoIQ for the build. Unfortunately, my preferred builder would probably tell me this stuff isn't necessary. I'm sure many of us know that engine builders are set in their ways and do not like to deviate from what they normally do.
It isnt necessary but it helps for lower friction and longer life, the customer has to decide if they want this.
this should be done on all cylinder walls and piston rings from factory, probably increases efficiency
Thank you for sharing your knowledge sir 🙏🏽
This is like an as seen on TV add, but actually works. And no, they won't double your order for free.
I Love your Videos !
I wish I could have my Audi engine. Built by you guys it would be amazing
I was building a motor for my Mazdaspeed 6 and had the Pistons, rings, and bearings WPC. I sold the build before I got to finish it.
My question is, have you had similar builds that you have had one with several components WPC treated, and the other without any WPC and could quantify any performance increase? Like has the WPC one had higher output due to the reduction in friction?
On a car, it is super expensive to do an A to B test on WPC only but I have done it on a go-kart engine, on my daughter 50cc two-stroke Kart, it gave .2 more hp on a 3 hp motor and took a second of her lap time on a 1.03-second track. When she moved to 100cc karts it gained .3 hp on a 9 hp engine and gave her just under a second improvement on a 37 second a lap track. These are spec motors but the WPC isn't detectable and pass tech. For cars, the engine life is greatly increased, that's for sure. Also when a new engine is being turned by hand while being assembled, the friction is way less and the engine spins a lot easier.
@@motoiq wow! That's awesome. Thank you for the reply!
Wow great information
Great, WPC also stands for Wood-Polymer-Composites.
What does WPC mean in metal treatment?
I try to find a service like that in Germany.
Something weird in japlish.
@@motoiq noted 😄
I finally found it, it stands for Wonder Process Craft. www.fujimfg.co.jp/english/wpc.html toyoseiko.co.jp/en/product/wpc/
@@motoiq My apologies. I really thought you were joking and just didn't want to tell me😆 Thank you a lot
Super cool 😎. I remember watching a video on dlc coated pistons I wonder how a fully dlc coated piston plus full wpc coated piston would do?
DLC and WPC work well together actually.
Great content!!! Thank you so much
hmm if you get more strength then i would think the important parts could be made a lot lighter with less material. that rod pin is a good example. maybe a good idea to make it smaller if its so strong already. I wonder with the new things coming out like with porsche trying to 3d print pistons, combine the additive minimal design/hollow pistons with a wpc process, and see how light the inertia sensitive parts of an engine could get down to. would like to see higher revs even in commuter econo box cars with variable valve timing. im sure GM will still find a way to engineer things to break 1000 miles after warenty lol
your car first
thanks for this.
What does WPC recommend for surface prep? Depending on that, I could tell you what's in it. If it's heat vs acid etch for instance; moly is an acid etch if memory serves, and if there's a heat chaser, ptfe or graphite is involved. All of those are friction modifiers, though moly has that dull silvery grey surface appearance.
Whatever the final surface finish for the end use is.
@@motoiq Interesting. I misunderstood and thought this was like a send-out service, but if I understand correctly now, this is like a product that is forcefully applied like a reverse sandblast or kind of like an anodizing treatment (in terms of surface transfer) of sorts? Initially I had in my mind that is was being done as an industrial hot tank process where the product was surface bonding chemically.
It's impingement with super small ceramic spheres and dry film lubricant.
@@motoiq I very much appreciate your having expanded my wheelhouse to the product. I'm occasionally guilty of getting to that point where you try a lot of things but stick with what you know works or make one yourself. Outside of nitriding which isn't really what I'd consider long-term durable on hard-wearing surfaces but better than nothing, Cerakoting or products like it were something I'd turn to on occasion if it wasn't like a bearing or journal surface. More often than not, I'm more concerned (in my field anyway) about thermal protection than metal-to-metal contact and fell back on oil additives for the heavy lifting with asperations to finding something better one day. 😉
So much good info
i went back to review this video as im planning my next build. we had my cousins crank shaft nitrated! would WPC be better for our next build? M271😁
you can WPC a nitrided surface, we do it all the time.
So When my and my sons mx bikes need new piston i can send it off to you for wcp treatment and it will fit straight back in cylinder ok on 2000 cr250 and 05 kx85
Yes it will, doing the rings and the cylinder might not be a bad idea too. Did it on my daughters kart, took .8 seconds off on a 50 second lap.
Can you do a video on cryogenic treatment, and which engine parts to treat? I know it's good, but I'm not sure exactly what parts to do, and exactly why
thats coming soon, we shot it just in post.
Great vid, thank you. Maybe a stupid question, but didn't see it commented below, nor in the vid. Is this WPC suitable for brake rotors? Obviously reduced friction is a bad idea there, but if this could be overcome with longer bed in process similar to piston rings, maybe after that is not a bad thing to have for increased rotor life?
No, but cryo treating helps.
since WPC only affects the surface, and rotor wear is measured in mm, not microns, it'd probably go away pretty quickly. You'd probably get a bit more rotor life (see Porsche's Tungsten carbide coated rotors) with soft street pads, but I imagine that with metallic race pads, you'd immediately annihilate the surface, and have trouble bedding in the pads.
What about Alusil / Nikasil cylinders, I don't know if WPC would be a good idea there due to the very specific finish they require.
Works great on Nikasil and plasma liners, we do it all the time.
mike do u also do treatment on transmission gears
Yes
How do you add WPC treatment ? I watched videos of people ceramic coating but I can't see any video on : how WPC is achieved on engine components...
Probably you could answer me?
Watch the video
Is there any benefits to include isotopic treatment with WPC & Cryo?
I don't like it because it changes dimensions
Hello sir, i had simple question, can we combine wpc treatment with ceramic coating on top ( crown) piston
The ceramic wont stick to the WPC
@@motoiq ok, thk u for ur answer sir
This process looks like it would be advantageous for the aviation and small arms industries as well. Very cool video, thank you for the information!
It is!
I love how he always has a weird little smile on his face
is there any sort of testing that anyone can share that proof this works? Like I want to see a turbo spool faster with a before an after test or anything that tells me it is worth doing it because of x
Hi do you make and coat parts projects? I want to try skatboard ar-berings. Thanks
Good Morning Mr. Mike do your company work wpc treatments for classic vw engine for beetle? And how it gonna be the cost? Thank you very much
About $1750 for the engine.
@@motoiq Sir is it every parts will be treated?
Every part where it helps.
How about cylinder walls? I believe Honda uses a ceramic coating instead of iron sleaves.
Some Honda engines use a cast silicone carbide matrix cast into the aluminum. WPC works on all of that.
Crazy process. Does a fully pwc engine make more power?
It has less friction so less power wasted.
Would wpc and cryo treatment be viable for apex seals?
Yes a lot of top rotary builders use it.
Does WPC help on wet clutches for drag racing?
I put wpc treatment on my ding dong- best investment i ever made.
What a fascinating explanation of this metal treatment process. I am going to contact these guys when it's time to rebuild the engine on my 370Z.
I wonder if this process could be applied to aluminum connecting rods to make them more durable for long-term use in street engines.
how much horsepower gain after WPC all engine parts?, have you compare it?, less friction should be more power
On a car, it is super expensive to do an A to B test on WPC only but I have done it on a go-kart engine, on my daughter 50cc two-stroke Kart, it gave .2 more hp on a 3 hp motor and took a second of her lap time on a 1.03-second track. When she moved to 100cc karts it gained .3 hp on a 9 hp engine and gave her just under a second improvement on a 37 second a lap track. These are spec motors but the WPC isn't detectable and pass tech. For cars, the engine life is greatly increased, that's for sure. Also when a new engine is being turned by hand while being assembled, the friction is way less and the engine spins a lot easier.
How would this affect the ports of a cylinder head where a rougher surface performs better than a smooth polished one?
I don't understand the benefit to WPC treatment on clutch plates in a DCT, is friction not the mechanism for engagement? If you were to reduce the friction would the clutches be more prone to slipping and then would increase wear? I must be missing something
I feel like I wouldn’t want my clutch done because I want more friction to hold my power. Will it last longer yeah but If I’m racing I want my clutch to hold
Are there any shops in Australia providing WPC and Cryo treatments?
We have no idea, Google is your friend.
Can this be done on used stock components, or do the parts need to be brand new? I’m thinking stock cams on my f20c once I’m already in there upgrading my springs and retainers. Thanks!
It can be done on used parts
How do thread locking agents react to it?
Not affected