I play bass in a band with no guitarist so sometimes I am forced and asked to play cords so I hope that in this case I can be excused, what do you think? We have no intentions of adding a guitarist since we are more trad jazz oriented
@@davidwareham3569 There's no rules. If it sounds good to you then stick with it! Especially in your case playing more chords probably helps to fill the sound out more, so I get why you'd go that route.
same. for the genres im playing it makes sense as many people do similar stuff in modern metal/rock that has that sorta djent influence but I find myself realizing i've spent the whole song using only the bottom 4 strings and mostly 1 note at a time and I'm sorta realizing modern metal/hard rock rhythm guitar is often just playing the roll of Heavy Bass Embiggener. It's a vibe and super powerful, especially if you play around with when to use unison or trading little lines between bass and guitar or even harmonizing as much as is allowed with distorted tones, but I wonder if I should start experimenting with putting guitar where it usually belongs in other genres.
@@benpowell5348yes, do experiment with other genres! That's how I made songs like "okay person" "the engine" and "salt" (some of my best songs imo) Switching things up is how you keep a fan base interested
I really agree with this. Whenever I write a song, I record guitars, drums and vocals and then I listen to it. While listening, it’s very easy to notice what’s missing and to create the bass line with all the fills at the right moment.
Bass was always the last thing I used to add too. I think when you're recording primarily by yourself, the standard drums-bass-guitars-vocal setup doesn't really work. But overtime I've found how big of an impact getting a bass part to lock in with the drums can really have - no matter how simple or complex the line itself is.
@tactik5903 Haha thanks, I appreciate that! I'm really not doing anything clever though, I'm just highlighting the ideas from bands & producers I like, so all credit goes to them.
The one thing that advanced me as a bassist more than anything is when I stopped viewing myself as a sidekick to the guitarist and started viewing myself as a partner to the drummer. These days there are lots of famous tracks with the drums and bass isolated available on RUclips. I strongly recommend that any and all bass players start giving these a listen, it gives a lot of insight on how bass and drums combine to make or break a song. Many sound like full complete tunes in themeselves.
Thanks for the tip! I've been playing in a band for almost a year and all this time we hadn't had a drummer (bc of some issues). Finally we had one join the band not long ago, but now it's quite difficult for me to rewire my playing, so i'll keep that in mind!
If really want the drums to pop, you gotta lock with the kick. Bass and Kick must function as a single unit. You don't have to hit every note together, but it must have influence on what you do. On the other hand, if you avoid the snare, it really comes to life and gives the drums room to breathe. Sometimes even when playing more staccato, I will hold right before the snare and get my cutoff to line up with the snare to make it sound that much bigger.
Another thing you can do is walk through the snare: say the drum part is really sparse, but it's basically kick-rest-snare-rest. It's going to be very hard to back off the snare (or the three, depending on how you think about it) completely, so I borrow a trick from James Jamerson in "I Was Made to Love Her": in that song, he's basically locked to the melody, so to avoid a 1-3 pattern, he takes what's a single quarter note in the orchestra, and plays two sixteenth notes. It's a great way to lay off the snare when you can't actually lay off the snare. Check out the song if you want to hear it: the theme starts right in the first measure, and the bass appears in the third, so you won't have long before hearing Jamerson double tapping the third beat.
A friend of mine met E Street Band bass player Gary Tallent at a bar when they were in town. My friend said he really liked the bass playing on Springsteen's second album and asked why the bass parts were so dumbed down after that. Tallent said, "They don't call him the boss for nothing." Springsteen and producer Jon Landau simplified all the bass and drum patterns to play better on radio, and not coincidentally Springsteen went from a critical darling without any hits to a chart topper. Bottom line: don't get fancy.
I tend to bounce between enforcing the drums while playing a counter melody to either the vocals or guitar. Or when not doing a supportive melody accenting certain parts of the focal point of the song. creating connective runs to join parts of a phrase or song part change entering the chorus for instance can create a call and response in your own bass lines. also knowing when not to play is as important as playing the right note in many cases.
One thing that really helped me as a teenager was that my best friend was the drummer in our band so we were already on the same wavelength. We didn't even have to talk about it we just had this implicit understanding.
I turn up kick drum volume so it’s clearly audible over everything else then compose something using the kicks as a guide for the rhythm note placement etc. I think a good mindset for bass is to focus on when to play and the length of the notes if you align this with the kick and snare you’ll sound solid and have a groove to work with. Once you have that groove you can think about which notes to use and how to include more than just root notes if thats whats needed.
Great points about sustain. Leaving space for snare is classic. It also helps to write parts more vertically, try to use mostly one position of your left hand, instead of jumping across the neck, soon you'll find a lot of new melodic and groove ideas. Don't really now why it works, but it works for me every time.
Watching your process of programming and editing bass lines using the MIDI roll was super helpful. It’s great to have a visual aid to see how the bass interacts with the drums. I usually program my bass lines before recording them and sometimes I feel like I’m cheating. Seeing you do it this way too reassures me that it’s a valid approach to writing bass parts. I’d love to see more MIDI breakdowns of bass and drums in future videos!
I'm glad to hear that! MIDI does really help you get into the nitty-gritty stuff when you're trying to work out the best part for your song. I normally start out with the intention of going back and re-recording things later on, but then I find out the MIDI has better "feel" than me, haha.
Great video. I used to pound away on the rootnote all the time myself. Generally eight to the bar. I joined a cover band in my mid-40s and soon learned I had to come up with other types of lines rather than purely rootnotes. I found that simple walking patterns or a root-fifth was enough, and I find I'm using them in my own compositions too!
i think the band Minutemen really highlight what everyone in a 3 piece rock band should be doing. the guitar takes up the melody and the treble frequencies, the bass takes up a reinforcing rhythm while adding a lower harmony/counter melody. then the drums are keeping the strong foundation. the band does this really REALLY well, and its a shame their lead guitarist died so early on.
I feel like a great balance of these ideas is to have the bass follow the kick and snare during the verses to sound more alive and interesting but when it gets to the chorus you play the root notes off of what the guitarist is doing which in some cases the bass following the guitar can make things sound big or even heavy and the same thing goes for when your song may have a breakdown or something like that. But that’s just my opinion
Hey I agree, I feel that a busy bass over the chorus makes the lyrics muddier and the melody less interesting, a good root note reinforcement helps on building emphasis on the vocal melody while increasing the energy overall
Choosing when to follow and when to do your own thing is for sure part of bass composition. I would advise not to make anything as formulaic as you suggest. Yes, the moment you go from framing to following creates fantastic dynamic but this shift may actually work better coming out of the chorus, into the bridge, etc etc etc. Assess each individual part and the song overall for what will work best. Rules and tricks are great, but don't let them lock you in or you will find yourself writing the same song over and over again.
@@mysticmagicsmurfdarklord6844 I personally play a lot of interesting harmonies in my basslines, and get some nice bass solo's, but you ultimately do want to follow the guitars a lot in metal, as the bass really is what makes the guitars actually sound heavy, without that its pretty weak
I've played with tons of average and sub-par bassists, and only a handful of amazing high-level players. Being a good bass player is about perspective and most guitarists suck at bass because they lack a fundamental understanding of that instruments' role in a band. Listen to greats like Carol Kaye, James Jamerson, Paul McCartney... it's not about playing the root.
Dan's definitely one of my personal favourites. Dude doesn't get enough love for the many great bass lines he plays in ALK3 and outside of that band too (his work with Slapstick, The Falcons & The Damned Things, just to name a few).
I just joined a band last year playing bass. I was always a guitar player, so I can relate to this. I tend to play root notes, but I'm starting to play notes in the chord. It works pretty well. Also, I haven't seen anyone using Reason Studios in a while! I used that DAW for a long time.
That's great, I hope things go well with the new band! Yeah Reason is like my comfort DAW as it's what I grew up using, haha. I still love it for all my production and recording needs, though I'll bounce out of it into Reaper for mixing & mastering.
Honestly starting with guitar and switching to bass has hindered me a bit. It definitely helped me become comfortable with stringed instruments but 3 years into playing I still find myself trying to shred or play super melodic stuff in fills without having a firm grasp on the actual role the bass should fill. Great vid
Bass is the backbone of the band man. It ...literally... connects all the other players. Bass makes the low frequencies, so everyone else gets reinforced or flubbed in it's upper harmonics & rhythm. I'll usually hit the root on 1, vibe & fill with chord friendly tones, then lead in the next chord's root. Not much 'shred', but plenty of space for speed, fill, & creativity.
One thing that's pretty cool is to switch between the different grooves as it reinforces the feel of the song. For example, let's say the song has four verses. Verses 1 and 3 might be more laid back and Verses 2 and 4 might have more energy, with Verse 4 having a shift in the feel of the vocals. Use the plain one on verses 1 and 3, the groovier one on Verses 2 and the syncopated one on 4.
I’m so glad I’m in a a really accepting band, i made a bass line and usually they would call me a bum and kick me out, but my band decided to make chords and leads with their guitars, idk what my drumming doing rn probably playing Fortnite.
This is so important! The bass has so much power over the song! I love mike dirnt pre and post american idiot to show the contrast and sheer range of different roles the bass can take.
To all the aspiring bass players out there, spending time on MIDI will give you a very wide understanding of the different note lengths and placements can really change the pocket you sit in relating to the rhythms. Root and fifths are fantastic jumping off points, and will simplify the process, then you can extend your range from there. Fantastic advice in this video!
I'm a guitarist, and I was concerned when I realized I write bass lines like a bass player. Then I remembered I played tuba through high school and into college. D'oh.
It would sound even cooler if you broke up the fifths and started emphasizing different colors of the chord, and used those notes to lead into the roots of the next notes by creating inversions of the chords that build tension and relieve into the next chord. That’s something you should work out when the melody of the song is written as you can get some really great counter melody or create a stacked harmony amongst everything else in the band. Something to think about.
@@SugarpillProd always expand! Sometimes I’ll go thru my old projects and find a gem and revisit it and release it. I have one song that I jokingly say took me 10 years to write because I wrote like a couple minutes, forgot about it, came back and wrote a few more and forgot about it I ❤️ forgetting about it for a while.
Oh yeah I get that! I just don't really write for myself anymore. I'm much more into producing for other bands / artists now, so the things in these videos are just little example pieces I write 5 minutes before filming, or old stuff I've found on a random hard drive, haha.
This helped so much for practice today, especially playing a song in a type I wasn’t that familiar with/good at and really needed to play to the part 🙂 thank you!!
This exact thing is how I can usually tell if the bassist is a bassist or a converted guitarist. (Also, bassists tend to notice where the melody has "holes" and will dive through them with something higher on the neck).
I've been playing the guitar for 12 years and bass for 8 years, but only recently I started really paying attention to groove, syncopation and playing tight with the drums and it improved my arrangements greatly tbh
A very helpful video, I was struggling to find a way to play bass less as a guitarrist and more as a bass player. Would you make another video talking about drum patterns for punk?
Yeah I think I might cover that topic soon. I did make an older video based around the skate punk beat, but I'd like to do something a bit more in-depth on that subject soon. Thanks for watching!
First, hi :) and yeeeeaaaaahhhhh I definitely play a bass like a guitar and this is interesting because it sounds so different just by the way you play the bass
I play guitar, bass, and drums on the songs I write (but never upload or anything, cus I don’t have a mic yet), and I usually choose the chords, write the bass line, write the guitar, then the drums (following the bass). I really like the bass being the main focus, cus it just sounds so good.
When ive played bass with a band I always referred to myself as a guitarist who is playing bass instead of a "bassist". I always felt that it would be obvious by my bassline
this is why i find it so hard to come up with lines over recordings but so easy to do so in actual jam sessions. i can actually feel the drums when were jamming which is taken away from me in recorded audio form. i always find myself using feeling way more than my ears. i guess its a habit from being a bass player.
That makes sense! Maybe try to solo out the drum recording, and just loop that until you feel like you're locking into something? While it might not be live anymore, it could help you focus by removing everything else. There's definitely something to be said for what we write depending on the environment we're in. Like being in a room with a super loud amp where you can feel what you're playing, vs writing by yourself with headphones on - each is likely to lead to very different results. So maybe in your case it could be a good idea to try and simulate more of a live environment, as that's what you're used to.
Haha yeah I get that. I don't think that's always a bad thing though. Depends on what type of music you're making. Some genres benefit from the unplayable, whereas others it can take you out of it.
I play lead bass. I will NOT sit in the backgrouns. I will NOT follow the guitar. I will NOT follow the drummer the band follows me. Period. I play extremeely technical virtuoso lead bass parts and the band needs to set the stage for me.
I'm a six string guitar player. I wanted to know some of the differences between bass and standard 6 string guitar. Honestly, I can barely make out bass notes. When the other instruments are added, it just looks like you're moving your hand to the beat.
I think an important thing to mention would be that you don't have to play on every drum hit either. Like, you could leave space for the snare hit. All in all, leaving space is an important skill as a bassist. It technically leads to simpler bass lines, but it's a different kind of "simple" than playing constant 8th notes. The extra added space makes the bass notes that you decide to play sound a lot more important. Also, taking advantage of this idea of leaving space in different sections is a good way of adding contrast. Maybe in one section you add more space between the notes, and in other sections you play more full. Nothing needs to be done about the note choice. I actually think the typical advice to "not just play roots" can be harmful. Playing chord roots isn't an issue (and it's actually what you want to be doing most of the time - at least you want to target the root, even if you aren't staying on it all the time). The bass line of Can't Stop is 95% root notes, but I don't hear anyone complaining about it. What is an issue is the lack of variety.
I think I did? Or at least that was the idea I was referring to when I said "The key thing here is the placement of each note, and figuring out when and when not to place your bass notes on the kick or snare".
Hey so at 2:58 that chord isn't D major it's an inversion D/A, that also means that the note you highlighted isn't D (the root) but instead A the 5th. Otherwise absolutely awesome video!
Haha, yeah, that was an editing mistake on my part. I had made a previous video on using inverted chords and then decided to grab one of those charts for this video without remembering the context in which I had used them previously. Basically avoid video editing at 2am when possible 😂 Thanks for watching!
Aha. So I picked up on playing the bass while watching the samples in midi, but love the idea of copying the kick etc into a bass region then literally reading that.
Try imagining a bass line without patterns that instead varies by rhythm and/or harmony. The goal with this approach is a fluid line that begins and ends with the tune, or by sections. It may sound random isolated, but in the mix it will subtley drive a tune. Uh, think like the bass line is a series of related bass sentences that became bass paragraph for the tune. Patterns are for machines, mannn...😃
Started off as a drummer, then learned how to play guitar. Bass, in my opinion, exists in both of these worlds. I prefer to look at bass as a “melodic percussion” instrument. I’m much better as a bassist than I am as a guitarist now.
thats why many guitarrists suck at playing bass they all think its easier cause it has less strings, without groove songs will have less impact, people listening may not know whats making them dance or like that song but probably many songs its the bass mixed with a good drummer
Off-topic response: I think this is the first time I've heard your voice, for some reason I'd always presumed that you were American and it was a surprise to hear a fellow Brit.
Haha yeah I get that all the time. I'd assume probably because of the typical bands I normally talk about, everyone assumes I'm from California or something 🤣
When playing bass without a drummer, the bassist doesn't have that option. I did find it difficult to adjust to playing with a drummer, but at least knew the playing style had to be changed
Do you mean in a recording sense? Because you'd still have the drum recording to reference first, unless you tracked bass as the starting instrument, which I don't think is super common.
Once you’ll learn to play with fingers, you’ll start to create even cooler grooves! I think for the style of music you play here fingers give a nicer tone with more low mids to fill out the sound. In terms of groove you can start using dead notes and rakes to create interesting rhythmical elements.
I tend to switch based on the context of music. Sometimes pick sounds better, sometimes fingers. That's why I never understood people who are "anti" one way or the other, haha. They're both good, just depends on the sound you're going after.
With me I have the vice versa problematic of writing guitar riffs as a bass player. They always tend to be more bass-esque. FIne for Rhythm but not for some lead stuff or melodies.
This is a very interesting technical approach. For me personally it would be too "artificial" to generate/program everything with midi. I like to feel directly what I'm doing with my bass and my fingers. But I can imagine that a beginner would benefit from the visual aspect.
Honestly I find bass plugins have gotten to the same point as drums, where you can really make them sound realistic as long as you know what you're doing. Like the bass line in Attention sounds super realistic to my ear, and that's all MIDI. But it's also fun recording it with a real bass too. Like you said, it's more of a visual aid in this context.
It isn't just for beginners. Writing lines direct to piano roll or some other way can help break out of the physical patterns you've inevitably picked up over the years and create brand new ideas.
@@pseudonymlifts2 Yeah I really agree with you there. Having to rely on only your ears makes you come up with a lot of things you normally wouldn't if you had a bass in hand. It's almost like playing a new instrument. Both approaches can work equally well, depending on what you're going for.
Thanks! I'd say it's more of an intentional over-generalisation rather than outright clickbait though. But also it's just part of the marketing. I am making these videos in the hopes people watch them at the end of the day, haha.
My advice to bass players, as a Bass player of 30 years: when a guitarist won't tell you the chord changes or if a chord is major, minor, etc...quit immediately!
There are many songs where only the root bass notes are played. In songs like those, the rhythm is more important. Simple grooves are achieved with only root notes in many of the greatest songs ever written. Assuming we are talking about a song-oriented band, the bass player who overplays can ruin a song, whereas one who gives the other musicians space is more likely to get the phone call for the next gig.
What I often see when guitar players are playing bass, that they are playing fancy bass lines with many fills, too many notes and a certain restlessness that raises the stress level while listening to it. Especially when the guitar is already doing fills or picking many notes, imho a bassline should support that by not adding an extra melody line that distracts from the vocals. Yes, of course you can do that, especially if your familiar with the art of the fugue by Bach. But for basslines the same rules applies as to any other instrument: less is often more and Funk is when you don‘t play. 😉
I play each part at the end of this video, so that should give you the visuals to work it out. It's pretty simple stuff. Oh and it's in standard tuning if that helps - ruclips.net/video/MGs6MYGI0qw/видео.htmlsi=HaeyKyQCnaBTfM-T
While I agree with everything you said, I actually prefer the version where the bass plays the root notes. I think that in the newer version you focus too much on the drums and bass and totally forget the bass a guitar relationship. In fact, the fact that the guitar is playing arpeggiated notes without much focus on the root kinda calls for a reenforcement of the root by the bass. That and the fact that the drum part is not particularly groovy, which makes the overly groovy bass stand out too much, especially in such a low key type of song. But I get it. Playing root notes is boring. So instead of playing with the rhythm, I would play with the note choice, by experimenting with 5ths, 7ths or even 9ths here and there in order to enrich the melody of the guitars. Think English post-punk/goth rock type of bass line
For sure, I can definitely see both working in this context. Like I said, I don't see one being better necessarily than the other, it just depends what you're going for. Those are all good bits of advice you mentioned though!
Just listen to baddass drummers and bassist a lot, try to make your drummer sound like a badass, don't overstep on his snare (learn to lock in and mute at the right time), never play what the melody is doing but harmonizing is ok, and just have fun in the process, you already know your notes, and your chords, now its about figuring out what sounds good or doesn't. Also, playing with fingers only for a while can help to separate the two things.
Yeah, this video validated me thankfully in that I have focused on prioritizing the drums, linking up with the guitar as and when appropriate. Honestly, as my first and favourite genre, metal music has to be one of the worst genres to learn the instrument on. Yeah, yeah, Cliff Burton blah blah, but it'll lock someone into playing like a rhythm guitarist as a habit to break out of. Playing genres that aren't based around riffs or tabs but instead chords has helped me a lot learning my instrument more.
TBH I pretty much ignore the guitar completely and focus more on the kick and snare and what the vocals are doing, you can hear this a lot in Paul McCartney who really is top tier regardless of what kind of music you are making people can learn a lot by dissecting the Beatles these days I'd say Radiohead are the modern equivalent.
Your example of a root bass note shows a D chord in the chart, then indicates the bottom E string at the 5th fret........which is an A, and therefore the 5th of the chord. Not the root !!!!
Today is probably the day I'm finding out that laying out drums BEFORE the bass is the normal thing.to do🤣 I have been creating my own bass grooves and then my producer/drummer uses that as a basis
Either way works honestly. I normally go guitar - drums - bass - if I'm writing everything from scratch. If it's tracks someone else has sent me to work on, then I like to spend more time on the drums and bass, and then move on to everything else once that's locked in.
2nd one is better, but still, frankly, a lot of room to grow. You got it right that locking in with the drums helps. But... you have so many more techniques you can utilize. Maybe hire a bass player to see what a pro can come up with.
Just depends what you're going for really. There's a million ways you can play a bass line, and every person will add their own unique twist. Just because there's "many more techniques" you can add in, doesn't mean you should. Knowing when to hold back is just as important, if not more so.
@@SugarpillProd there are more than a million ways to do it. If the entire point of the video is "look how this works better than that," then, in my opinion, demonstrating it by adding one bassline writing technique leaves more to be desired. If, instead, the point of the video is "meh, know when to hold back, it's more important," when it comes to writing the bass line, then the video just kind of wastes the viewer's time.
@spastickitchen It was neither. The video isn't about one "technique". The idea was to highlight the different roles a bass usually plays within a composition. A lot of it is based on my past experiences working with bands and artists, so it's addressing a common issue I hear that's prevalent in a lot of peoples writing - of which I used to do the same. And like I mentioned in the video numerous times, one isn't better than the other, not everything is an absolute. You could go more technical, you could go more basic, it really doesn't matter as long as you're serving the song. Like you said, you could utilise a bunch of other techniques, but that also speaks to the mindset of being more focused on yourself, rather than the composition as a whole. That sort of "tunnel vision" is a super common problem I hear with bands, where they're all concerned about their own individual instruments (both in the writing and mix) but less concerned about how these parts sum together. I think if you read a lot of the comments, the video seems to have reached the desired audience.
And who says that writing a part focusing on reinforcement of the song versus writing a part designed to highlight a certain instrument doesn't involve writing techniques? And, furthermore, what sort of writing "serv[es] the song?" If you add any sort of part, and it does nothing to serve the song, then the song should reflect the artists vision better if you mute the instrument. But, it's all up to the artist. The video seems to me to boil down to "check out this riff with this bassline I wrote. I wasn't happy with it, so I replaced it with a bass line that locks into the drums instead of just the guitar. Doesn't it sound better? Maybe, I don't know." "Writing to serve the song," as people put it, is basically just a meaningless aphorism. You write a cool part you like. If it's for someone else, they either like it or not. If I was doing a session, as a bass player, and someone told me to write a bass part for them that served the song, I would just ask them for more information, like, what sort of bassline do they imagine in the song. After all is said and done, the "write to serve the song" language ultimately tells me (or whomever is composing the part) absolutely nothing. And then, making a video about this topic. I know it takes a lot of time and effort, so I don't mean to sound like I am just trashing your work, but I feel like the interesting part of this topic just kind of gets hinted, instead of developed further. So, constructively, this could be a springboard into another video that dives deeper into the topic of how different sorts of basslines sound over the same riff. That way, the common nothingburger of a phrase "write to serve the song" gets something with meaning to back it up with tangible examples. Sorry if it sounds "salty," again, I don't mean to crap on the video you clearly put work into. However, I've had so many bad experiences with that phrase and analogs of it (for example: write a song that fits this artist, who hasn't released anything before; or, write a song that fits the vibe of my movie that hasn't been filmed yet; or, use instrumentation that sounds [insert nonmusical adjective here]). I know it's a limitation of communication, but long form video format could be the perfect way to address this sort of thing. If you'd like to expand on this further, I propose ,if you feel comfortable, you could send me some stems, and I'd be happy to put 3-4 different sorts of bass lines over the riff, and you could do with it whatever you like- use it in a video if you want, throw it away if you think it's trash, make a video about youtube comment, use it in a commercial, whatever.
I'm really speaking from a producer background, so writing a part that serves the song isn't an empty statement, at least not to me. It's about focusing on the focal points of a song, and not injecting unnecessary elements just because you can. That's really it. Like you might be able to come up with the wildest bass part, with double handed tapping, slap and dead notes all over the place, but that's probably not what most people want out of a bass line that's there to serve the song. Especially if it's not the focal point - or one of the focal points - of the composition. The example given is just a very basic idea to highlight the difference between a typical bass lines that's just been added because most people assume they need bass in their song, vs one that has a little more thought behind the actual groove of said song, and what the drums are doing. A better example I could've used would be to have something with more of an obvious focal point, like vocals, but I was trying to keep things simple just so viewers didn't have too many parts to focus on all at once. It's a hard concept to both teach and show practically, so I thought keeping things as stripped back as possible would work best in this case. I'm still learning how to best "teach" these ideas, as it's not something that comes naturally to me, so I'm more than happy to take criticism on that end. I'm never often 100% satisfied whenever I finish a video, but I do stand by the points made in this one, and it's not like everything there is to be said on this topic I've covered in these 8 minutes, that would be silly to suggest. I plan to make more on this subject area, because it's a huge concept to explore. And to your other point, something I've noticed when working with great session musicians, is that they really do focus on every part of a composition, and not just themselves. They might have been hired to only play the bass, drums, whatever, but they're never writing parts to impress the artist or producer, they're writing parts to enhance what's already been presented to them. They're listening for what's needed, and how their part can affect everything else around it. Whereas a more typical band situation usually involves every member concentrating on how "cool" they can make their part, without really giving consideration to the song as a whole. As you said yourself, "you write a cool part", which makes me think you're still talking purely from the perspective of only being focused on your own instrument. I don't think great songs are just made up of every individual band member writing their own "cool part" and this somehow coming together as a well written song. I think great songs are built around 1-2 "cool parts" with everything else wrapping around those, to enhance what's unique about those initial ideas.
While I don't listen to them a lot, Red Hot Chili Peppers are a great starting band to truly "get" the role of bass. It's not about flashy playing and slapping, the guitar and bass have a dialogue, like an old couple finishing each other's words.
Depends on your style of music. The bass is much more than the old stereotype of role you list here. It can be flashy or it can be just a background foundational role helping the drums or it can be a hybrid. RHCP actually does this here and there. All about preference but one way or style isn’t superior to the other
That example you're playing in the beginning of the video is PAINFULLY familiar and I can't remember what the song is and it's driving me absolutely nuts. Please help
Usually making a song I start with drums, bass, and then guitar over it. Somehow that's harder than making the guitar line first and filling it up with the bass. Then again, filling up might not be the right word. The funkyness or 'swing' or whatever comes from the bass; and usually that makes or breaks a song. Who in the world wants to see/hear example 1 live? Nobody, it's bland and boring. Lovely video!
I disagree with the premise. Some of the best bass playing of the rock era was by guitarists! Thing Noel Redding, Hendrix’s bassist. Redding was a very talented guitar player. As a guitarist, he knew what he wanted to hear from the bass in order to correctly support the phenomenal Hendrix. One cannot argue with what he did in the Experience.
That wasn't the premise though. It's just a generalisation (based on what I see from bands I've worked with / or who ask for feedback) about how a lot of guitarists tend to approach the bass with the exact same mindset. Sometimes this is fine, but it's an instrument that serves a completely different role to that of guitar in most songs, so it's good practise to know the topics discussed in this video too, imo. The whole "guitarist who happens to be good at bass" or "bassist who started out on guitar first" is not what I'm referring to here. That whole topic is redundant in this context.
![Seungmin "그렇게, 천천히, 우리(As we are)" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/kAzmhLHePqU/mqdefault.jpg)
🎸Download my MIDI bass pack and level up your bass lines!
www.sugarpillproductions.com/product-page/punk-bass-pack
I play bass in a band with no guitarist so sometimes I am forced and asked to play cords so I hope that in this case I can be excused, what do you think? We have no intentions of adding a guitarist since we are more trad jazz oriented
@@davidwareham3569 There's no rules. If it sounds good to you then stick with it! Especially in your case playing more chords probably helps to fill the sound out more, so I get why you'd go that route.
@@davidwareham3569 Bassists DO play chords! They just do it by outlining the chords.
i clicked on this video knowing i have to stop playing the guitar like a bass, using only power chords and variations
same. for the genres im playing it makes sense as many people do similar stuff in modern metal/rock that has that sorta djent influence but I find myself realizing i've spent the whole song using only the bottom 4 strings and mostly 1 note at a time and I'm sorta realizing modern metal/hard rock rhythm guitar is often just playing the roll of Heavy Bass Embiggener. It's a vibe and super powerful, especially if you play around with when to use unison or trading little lines between bass and guitar or even harmonizing as much as is allowed with distorted tones, but I wonder if I should start experimenting with putting guitar where it usually belongs in other genres.
@@benpowell5348yes, do experiment with other genres!
That's how I made songs like "okay person" "the engine" and "salt" (some of my best songs imo)
Switching things up is how you keep a fan base interested
power chords and palm mutes sound horrible on bass
@@Helena-gk4ui horrendous take
@@oservoasafe your bASS playing is horrendous
I really agree with this. Whenever I write a song, I record guitars, drums and vocals and then I listen to it. While listening, it’s very easy to notice what’s missing and to create the bass line with all the fills at the right moment.
Bass was always the last thing I used to add too. I think when you're recording primarily by yourself, the standard drums-bass-guitars-vocal setup doesn't really work. But overtime I've found how big of an impact getting a bass part to lock in with the drums can really have - no matter how simple or complex the line itself is.
@@SugarpillProdyou’re so damn clever dude, and if you weren’t teaching us pop punk secrets I’d have never gotten to know your work. cheers!
@tactik5903 Haha thanks, I appreciate that! I'm really not doing anything clever though, I'm just highlighting the ideas from bands & producers I like, so all credit goes to them.
@@SugarpillProd modest too lol
I do the exact opposite. I record bass first. Then add everything else around that. Bass is my primary instrument though.
The one thing that advanced me as a bassist more than anything is when I stopped viewing myself as a sidekick to the guitarist and started viewing myself as a partner to the drummer.
These days there are lots of famous tracks with the drums and bass isolated available on RUclips. I strongly recommend that any and all bass players start giving these a listen, it gives a lot of insight on how bass and drums combine to make or break a song. Many sound like full complete tunes in themeselves.
Thanks for the tip!
I've been playing in a band for almost a year and all this time we hadn't had a drummer (bc of some issues). Finally we had one join the band not long ago, but now it's quite difficult for me to rewire my playing, so i'll keep that in mind!
My approach as a bassist is, if it doesn’t make you want to dance or move to the rhythm, you’re not bassing right.
Perfectly said
If really want the drums to pop, you gotta lock with the kick. Bass and Kick must function as a single unit. You don't have to hit every note together, but it must have influence on what you do. On the other hand, if you avoid the snare, it really comes to life and gives the drums room to breathe. Sometimes even when playing more staccato, I will hold right before the snare and get my cutoff to line up with the snare to make it sound that much bigger.
Another thing you can do is walk through the snare: say the drum part is really sparse, but it's basically kick-rest-snare-rest. It's going to be very hard to back off the snare (or the three, depending on how you think about it) completely, so I borrow a trick from James Jamerson in "I Was Made to Love Her": in that song, he's basically locked to the melody, so to avoid a 1-3 pattern, he takes what's a single quarter note in the orchestra, and plays two sixteenth notes.
It's a great way to lay off the snare when you can't actually lay off the snare. Check out the song if you want to hear it: the theme starts right in the first measure, and the bass appears in the third, so you won't have long before hearing Jamerson double tapping the third beat.
A friend of mine met E Street Band bass player Gary Tallent at a bar when they were in town. My friend said he really liked the bass playing on Springsteen's second album and asked why the bass parts were so dumbed down after that. Tallent said, "They don't call him the boss for nothing." Springsteen and producer Jon Landau simplified all the bass and drum patterns to play better on radio, and not coincidentally Springsteen went from a critical darling without any hits to a chart topper. Bottom line: don't get fancy.
There's some truth to that for sure
There's some truth to that for sure
I tend to bounce between enforcing the drums while playing a counter melody to either the vocals or guitar. Or when not doing a supportive melody accenting certain parts of the focal point of the song. creating connective runs to join parts of a phrase or song part change entering the chorus for instance can create a call and response in your own bass lines. also knowing when not to play is as important as playing the right note in many cases.
One thing that really helped me as a teenager was that my best friend was the drummer in our band so we were already on the same wavelength. We didn't even have to talk about it we just had this implicit understanding.
I turn up kick drum volume so it’s clearly audible over everything else then compose something using the kicks as a guide for the rhythm note placement etc.
I think a good mindset for bass is to focus on when to play and the length of the notes if you align this with the kick and snare you’ll sound solid and have a groove to work with. Once you have that groove you can think about which notes to use and how to include more than just root notes if thats whats needed.
100%.
Great points about sustain. Leaving space for snare is classic.
It also helps to write parts more vertically, try to use mostly one position of your left hand, instead of jumping across the neck, soon you'll find a lot of new melodic and groove ideas. Don't really now why it works, but it works for me every time.
Watching your process of programming and editing bass lines using the MIDI roll was super helpful. It’s great to have a visual aid to see how the bass interacts with the drums. I usually program my bass lines before recording them and sometimes I feel like I’m cheating. Seeing you do it this way too reassures me that it’s a valid approach to writing bass parts. I’d love to see more MIDI breakdowns of bass and drums in future videos!
I'm glad to hear that! MIDI does really help you get into the nitty-gritty stuff when you're trying to work out the best part for your song. I normally start out with the intention of going back and re-recording things later on, but then I find out the MIDI has better "feel" than me, haha.
Great video. I used to pound away on the rootnote all the time myself. Generally eight to the bar. I joined a cover band in my mid-40s and soon learned I had to come up with other types of lines rather than purely rootnotes. I found that simple walking patterns or a root-fifth was enough, and I find I'm using them in my own compositions too!
i think the band Minutemen really highlight what everyone in a 3 piece rock band should be doing. the guitar takes up the melody and the treble frequencies, the bass takes up a reinforcing rhythm while adding a lower harmony/counter melody. then the drums are keeping the strong foundation. the band does this really REALLY well, and its a shame their lead guitarist died so early on.
My favorite band since '84.
(Tar babies, also)
I feel like a great balance of these ideas is to have the bass follow the kick and snare during the verses to sound more alive and interesting but when it gets to the chorus you play the root notes off of what the guitarist is doing which in some cases the bass following the guitar can make things sound big or even heavy and the same thing goes for when your song may have a breakdown or something like that. But that’s just my opinion
Hey I agree, I feel that a busy bass over the chorus makes the lyrics muddier and the melody less interesting, a good root note reinforcement helps on building emphasis on the vocal melody while increasing the energy overall
Choosing when to follow and when to do your own thing is for sure part of bass composition. I would advise not to make anything as formulaic as you suggest. Yes, the moment you go from framing to following creates fantastic dynamic but this shift may actually work better coming out of the chorus, into the bridge, etc etc etc. Assess each individual part and the song overall for what will work best.
Rules and tricks are great, but don't let them lock you in or you will find yourself writing the same song over and over again.
Cliff Burton watching this “Aw f***”
did cliff burton play in this genre?
@@jakefennell8319no, he was a thrash metal bassist. He played with Metallica, before he sadly left this world.
@@mysticmagicsmurfdarklord6844 exactly my point... every genre is different, in some genres playing bass in a more guitary way is a good thing.
@@jakefennell8319 I actually personally disagree, I think that metal needs more interesting basslines, but I respect your opinion
@@mysticmagicsmurfdarklord6844 I personally play a lot of interesting harmonies in my basslines, and get some nice bass solo's, but you ultimately do want to follow the guitars a lot in metal, as the bass really is what makes the guitars actually sound heavy, without that its pretty weak
I've played with tons of average and sub-par bassists, and only a handful of amazing high-level players. Being a good bass player is about perspective and most guitarists suck at bass because they lack a fundamental understanding of that instruments' role in a band. Listen to greats like Carol Kaye, James Jamerson, Paul McCartney... it's not about playing the root.
I think its about playing as much as you can while also playing the root note from time to time. Really depends on whats best for the song.
I'd love to see some videos showcasing Dan Andriano, his bass lines are so hypnotic.
Dan's definitely one of my personal favourites. Dude doesn't get enough love for the many great bass lines he plays in ALK3 and outside of that band too (his work with Slapstick, The Falcons & The Damned Things, just to name a few).
The way they interact with Matt's guitar parts are incredible too, they both fill the space with intention without being overbearing
30 decades of playing bass guitar and you are absolutely right and all all the greatest play the way you are teaching
Are you really 300+ years old?
oldest bass player in history
Wow dude congrats on surviving so long
I just joined a band last year playing bass. I was always a guitar player, so I can relate to this. I tend to play root notes, but I'm starting to play notes in the chord. It works pretty well. Also, I haven't seen anyone using Reason Studios in a while! I used that DAW for a long time.
That's great, I hope things go well with the new band! Yeah Reason is like my comfort DAW as it's what I grew up using, haha. I still love it for all my production and recording needs, though I'll bounce out of it into Reaper for mixing & mastering.
This was, in my opinion, the best video you’ve made on this channel from a teaching standpoint.
That's really nice to hear! I was worried this one might be a bit too rambly, or at least the first half of it anyway, haha. Glad you enjoyed it!
Honestly starting with guitar and switching to bass has hindered me a bit. It definitely helped me become comfortable with stringed instruments but 3 years into playing I still find myself trying to shred or play super melodic stuff in fills without having a firm grasp on the actual role the bass should fill. Great vid
Thanks, I hope it helps you in some way!
Bass is the backbone of the band man. It ...literally... connects all the other players. Bass makes the low frequencies, so everyone else gets reinforced or flubbed in it's upper harmonics & rhythm.
I'll usually hit the root on 1, vibe & fill with chord friendly tones, then lead in the next chord's root.
Not much 'shred', but plenty of space for speed, fill, & creativity.
One thing that's pretty cool is to switch between the different grooves as it reinforces the feel of the song. For example, let's say the song has four verses. Verses 1 and 3 might be more laid back and Verses 2 and 4 might have more energy, with Verse 4 having a shift in the feel of the vocals. Use the plain one on verses 1 and 3, the groovier one on Verses 2 and the syncopated one on 4.
I’m so glad I’m in a a really accepting band, i made a bass line and usually they would call me a bum and kick me out, but my band decided to make chords and leads with their guitars, idk what my drumming doing rn probably playing Fortnite.
This is so important! The bass has so much power over the song! I love mike dirnt pre and post american idiot to show the contrast and sheer range of different roles the bass can take.
Mike's definitely a great example of a bassist that really plays for the song, and not his own ego!
To all the aspiring bass players out there, spending time on MIDI will give you a very wide understanding of the different note lengths and placements can really change the pocket you sit in relating to the rhythms. Root and fifths are fantastic jumping off points, and will simplify the process, then you can extend your range from there. Fantastic advice in this video!
I'm a guitarist, and I was concerned when I realized I write bass lines like a bass player. Then I remembered I played tuba through high school and into college. D'oh.
It would sound even cooler if you broke up the fifths and started emphasizing different colors of the chord, and used those notes to lead into the roots of the next notes by creating inversions of the chords that build tension and relieve into the next chord. That’s something you should work out when the melody of the song is written as you can get some really great counter melody or create a stacked harmony amongst everything else in the band. Something to think about.
Sounds like a cool idea! It's just an example track so it's not anything I'm going to expand on, but I'm sure it'd sound decent.
@@SugarpillProd always expand!
Sometimes I’ll go thru my old projects and find a gem and revisit it and release it.
I have one song that I jokingly say took me 10 years to write because I wrote like a couple minutes, forgot about it, came back and wrote a few more and forgot about it
I ❤️ forgetting about it for a while.
Oh yeah I get that! I just don't really write for myself anymore. I'm much more into producing for other bands / artists now, so the things in these videos are just little example pieces I write 5 minutes before filming, or old stuff I've found on a random hard drive, haha.
I think pattern 1 into pattern 2 would sound great. Like starting simple then getting more complex later on.
For sure! I think that's one thing I forgot to mention is that it can also be fun to vary patterns up like that, from section to section.
This helped so much for practice today, especially playing a song in a type I wasn’t that familiar with/good at and really needed to play to the part 🙂 thank you!!
Really happy to hear that!
I play both, love coming up with cool and melodic bass lines
This exact thing is how I can usually tell if the bassist is a bassist or a converted guitarist. (Also, bassists tend to notice where the melody has "holes" and will dive through them with something higher on the neck).
I've been playing the guitar for 12 years and bass for 8 years, but only recently I started really paying attention to groove, syncopation and playing tight with the drums and it improved my arrangements greatly tbh
It's crazy how much impact it has overall!
I'm a guitar player who wants to learn bass. This was the video I was looking for, to get started!!!
That's awesome! I hope it comes in handy 🙌
A very helpful video, I was struggling to find a way to play bass less as a guitarrist and more as a bass player. Would you make another video talking about drum patterns for punk?
Yeah I think I might cover that topic soon. I did make an older video based around the skate punk beat, but I'd like to do something a bit more in-depth on that subject soon. Thanks for watching!
First, hi :) and yeeeeaaaaahhhhh I definitely play a bass like a guitar and this is interesting because it sounds so different just by the way you play the bass
Thanks, I hope some of the information ends up being useful for you!
I play guitar, bass, and drums on the songs I write (but never upload or anything, cus I don’t have a mic yet), and I usually choose the chords, write the bass line, write the guitar, then the drums (following the bass). I really like the bass being the main focus, cus it just sounds so good.
When ive played bass with a band I always referred to myself as a guitarist who is playing bass instead of a "bassist". I always felt that it would be obvious by my bassline
Bruh, these videos are so good at demonstrating and showing different techniques.
I appreciate that!
Dammit. My hands are big enough to play full Barre chords on a 4-string. I'm not changing. Very good advice video though. :)
I look at japanese bass players for Inspiration. I think they are something else
As a bassist from the start (except some classical guitar training) with years on bass I prefer more flowy basslines rather than jumpy ones
this is why i find it so hard to come up with lines over recordings but so easy to do so in actual jam sessions. i can actually feel the drums when were jamming which is taken away from me in recorded audio form. i always find myself using feeling way more than my ears. i guess its a habit from being a bass player.
That makes sense! Maybe try to solo out the drum recording, and just loop that until you feel like you're locking into something? While it might not be live anymore, it could help you focus by removing everything else.
There's definitely something to be said for what we write depending on the environment we're in. Like being in a room with a super loud amp where you can feel what you're playing, vs writing by yourself with headphones on - each is likely to lead to very different results. So maybe in your case it could be a good idea to try and simulate more of a live environment, as that's what you're used to.
Funny, for your example I think that the sliding root notes are actually better. There's more of a groove and it really ties the guitars together.
love this format of video!!!
Thanks, happy to hear that!
I prefer to write basslines using MIDI too :D but sometimes I get carried away and write something that’s unplayable on a real bass 😅
Haha yeah I get that. I don't think that's always a bad thing though. Depends on what type of music you're making. Some genres benefit from the unplayable, whereas others it can take you out of it.
I play lead bass. I will NOT sit in the backgrouns. I will NOT follow the guitar. I will NOT follow the drummer the band follows me. Period. I play extremeely technical virtuoso lead bass parts and the band needs to set the stage for me.
I can't tell if you're being sarcastic or not, but I don't envy anyone who ends up being in a band with you 💀
You are not Peter Hook
@@BukanIbuMu I am the ywgwie malmsteen of bass.
I'm a six string guitar player. I wanted to know some of the differences between bass and standard 6 string guitar. Honestly, I can barely make out bass notes. When the other instruments are added, it just looks like you're moving your hand to the beat.
Either your sound system/headphones are broken or you need to get your ears tested.
I think an important thing to mention would be that you don't have to play on every drum hit either. Like, you could leave space for the snare hit. All in all, leaving space is an important skill as a bassist. It technically leads to simpler bass lines, but it's a different kind of "simple" than playing constant 8th notes. The extra added space makes the bass notes that you decide to play sound a lot more important.
Also, taking advantage of this idea of leaving space in different sections is a good way of adding contrast. Maybe in one section you add more space between the notes, and in other sections you play more full. Nothing needs to be done about the note choice. I actually think the typical advice to "not just play roots" can be harmful. Playing chord roots isn't an issue (and it's actually what you want to be doing most of the time - at least you want to target the root, even if you aren't staying on it all the time). The bass line of Can't Stop is 95% root notes, but I don't hear anyone complaining about it. What is an issue is the lack of variety.
I think I did? Or at least that was the idea I was referring to when I said "The key thing here is the placement of each note, and figuring out when and when not to place your bass notes on the kick or snare".
I tend to lay off the backbeat. To let snare breath. I almost always play kicks As long as it’s not too busy.
I usually start with a fancy bass line and then simplify it. Maybe cause I started as a bassist primarily
Death Cab are doing the Transatlanticism tour here in late August 😄
Sounds like a good show! I think they're also doing The Postal Service record too.
@@SugarpillProd Yup! Excited to see how that comes across live.
Hey so at 2:58 that chord isn't D major it's an inversion D/A, that also means that the note you highlighted isn't D (the root) but instead A the 5th. Otherwise absolutely awesome video!
Haha, yeah, that was an editing mistake on my part. I had made a previous video on using inverted chords and then decided to grab one of those charts for this video without remembering the context in which I had used them previously. Basically avoid video editing at 2am when possible 😂
Thanks for watching!
This is quintescential advice, I should have been told a long time ago. Thanks mate!
No problem! Better late than never 😁
I think I write my best stuff when I lay down drum and bass first and guitar and synth later.
Aha. So I picked up on playing the bass while watching the samples in midi, but love the idea of copying the kick etc into a bass region then literally reading that.
It's a nice little trick to use if you're ever stuck for ideas!
Try imagining a bass line without patterns that instead varies by rhythm and/or harmony. The goal with this approach is a fluid line that begins and ends with the tune, or by sections.
It may sound random isolated, but in the mix it will subtley drive a tune.
Uh, think like the bass line is a series of related bass sentences that became bass paragraph for the tune.
Patterns are for machines, mannn...😃
So awesome. Really enjoyed this!
Thanks so much for watching!
that Bb with the #5 is mad, how do you get to play that G along with it?
I did it the other way, and (maybe the unconventional way?) learned bass first 😬 now trying to learn guitar, and it’s such a challenge lol
Started off as a drummer, then learned how to play guitar. Bass, in my opinion, exists in both of these worlds. I prefer to look at bass as a “melodic percussion” instrument.
I’m much better as a bassist than I am as a guitarist now.
start playing guitar like a bassist
thats why many guitarrists suck at playing bass they all think its easier cause it has less strings, without groove songs will have less impact, people listening may not know whats making them dance or like that song but probably many songs its the bass mixed with a good drummer
"Crazy Train" by Ozzy has one of the best bass lines ever!
3:08 "Bass; Drums: The Balls of the band" -ZackGrooves
Off-topic response: I think this is the first time I've heard your voice, for some reason I'd always presumed that you were American and it was a surprise to hear a fellow Brit.
Haha yeah I get that all the time. I'd assume probably because of the typical bands I normally talk about, everyone assumes I'm from California or something 🤣
When playing bass without a drummer, the bassist doesn't have that option. I did find it difficult to adjust to playing with a drummer, but at least knew the playing style had to be changed
Do you mean in a recording sense? Because you'd still have the drum recording to reference first, unless you tracked bass as the starting instrument, which I don't think is super common.
Once you’ll learn to play with fingers, you’ll start to create even cooler grooves! I think for the style of music you play here fingers give a nicer tone with more low mids to fill out the sound.
In terms of groove you can start using dead notes and rakes to create interesting rhythmical elements.
I tend to switch based on the context of music. Sometimes pick sounds better, sometimes fingers. That's why I never understood people who are "anti" one way or the other, haha. They're both good, just depends on the sound you're going after.
It depends on the song. Sometimes just sticking to the root and keeping it simple is is the best way to go, sometimes not.
Without a doubt.
With me I have the vice versa problematic of writing guitar riffs as a bass player. They always tend to be more bass-esque. FIne for Rhythm but not for some lead stuff or melodies.
This is a very interesting technical approach. For me personally it would be too "artificial" to generate/program everything with midi. I like to feel directly what I'm doing with my bass and my fingers.
But I can imagine that a beginner would benefit from the visual aspect.
Honestly I find bass plugins have gotten to the same point as drums, where you can really make them sound realistic as long as you know what you're doing. Like the bass line in Attention sounds super realistic to my ear, and that's all MIDI. But it's also fun recording it with a real bass too. Like you said, it's more of a visual aid in this context.
It isn't just for beginners. Writing lines direct to piano roll or some other way can help break out of the physical patterns you've inevitably picked up over the years and create brand new ideas.
@@pseudonymlifts2 Yeah I really agree with you there. Having to rely on only your ears makes you come up with a lot of things you normally wouldn't if you had a bass in hand. It's almost like playing a new instrument. Both approaches can work equally well, depending on what you're going for.
What song are you using as the example? I really dig it.
Thanks! It's something I wrote years ago that I never really did anything with. So it doesn't a name or release unfortunately, haha.
I love your point you made in this vid after watching the whole thing, but the only critique I have is the title sounding like click-bait.
Thanks! I'd say it's more of an intentional over-generalisation rather than outright clickbait though. But also it's just part of the marketing. I am making these videos in the hopes people watch them at the end of the day, haha.
PLAY THE BASS HOWEVER YOU WANT!!!
Seems more like how to edit the bass track for production, than playing from the heart
2:57
What the heck? The root not of the D chord isn't the 5th fret of the 6th string. It's the 5th fret of the 5th. string.
Yeah I know. It was an editing mistake on my part.
@@SugarpillProd Next time
My advice to bass players, as a Bass player of 30 years: when a guitarist won't tell you the chord changes or if a chord is major, minor, etc...quit immediately!
This method is good for guitars too.
There are many songs where only the root bass notes are played. In songs like those, the rhythm is more important. Simple grooves are achieved with only root notes in many of the greatest songs ever written. Assuming we are talking about a song-oriented band, the bass player who overplays can ruin a song, whereas one who gives the other musicians space is more likely to get the phone call for the next gig.
I absolutely agree.
What I often see when guitar players are playing bass, that they are playing fancy bass lines with many fills, too many notes and a certain restlessness that raises the stress level while listening to it. Especially when the guitar is already doing fills or picking many notes, imho a bassline should support that by not adding an extra melody line that distracts from the vocals. Yes, of course you can do that, especially if your familiar with the art of the fugue by Bach. But for basslines the same rules applies as to any other instrument: less is often more and Funk is when you don‘t play. 😉
what are you doing
thats cool, thx
Do you think I could get the tab for the guitar riff
I’ve been coming back to that one video with it frequently, it sounds so good
I play each part at the end of this video, so that should give you the visuals to work it out. It's pretty simple stuff. Oh and it's in standard tuning if that helps - ruclips.net/video/MGs6MYGI0qw/видео.htmlsi=HaeyKyQCnaBTfM-T
While I agree with everything you said, I actually prefer the version where the bass plays the root notes. I think that in the newer version you focus too much on the drums and bass and totally forget the bass a guitar relationship. In fact, the fact that the guitar is playing arpeggiated notes without much focus on the root kinda calls for a reenforcement of the root by the bass. That and the fact that the drum part is not particularly groovy, which makes the overly groovy bass stand out too much, especially in such a low key type of song.
But I get it. Playing root notes is boring. So instead of playing with the rhythm, I would play with the note choice, by experimenting with 5ths, 7ths or even 9ths here and there in order to enrich the melody of the guitars. Think English post-punk/goth rock type of bass line
For sure, I can definitely see both working in this context. Like I said, I don't see one being better necessarily than the other, it just depends what you're going for. Those are all good bits of advice you mentioned though!
Just listen to baddass drummers and bassist a lot, try to make your drummer sound like a badass, don't overstep on his snare (learn to lock in and mute at the right time), never play what the melody is doing but harmonizing is ok, and just have fun in the process, you already know your notes, and your chords, now its about figuring out what sounds good or doesn't. Also, playing with fingers only for a while can help to separate the two things.
I've been a bass player for thirty years, so I watched this thinking I was playing my basses wrong. Turns out I wasnt.
Yeah, this video validated me thankfully in that I have focused on prioritizing the drums, linking up with the guitar as and when appropriate.
Honestly, as my first and favourite genre, metal music has to be one of the worst genres to learn the instrument on. Yeah, yeah, Cliff Burton blah blah, but it'll lock someone into playing like a rhythm guitarist as a habit to break out of.
Playing genres that aren't based around riffs or tabs but instead chords has helped me a lot learning my instrument more.
Thank you ❤
Happy to help 🙏
TBH I pretty much ignore the guitar completely and focus more on the kick and snare and what the vocals are doing, you can hear this a lot in Paul McCartney who really is top tier regardless of what kind of music you are making people can learn a lot by dissecting the Beatles these days I'd say Radiohead are the modern equivalent.
What MIDI program is this?
Reason 12 👍
Your example of a root bass note shows a D chord in the chart, then indicates the bottom E string at the 5th fret........which is an A, and therefore the 5th of the chord. Not the root !!!!
Yeah I know lol, editing mistake on my part.
Today is probably the day I'm finding out that laying out drums BEFORE the bass is the normal thing.to do🤣 I have been creating my own bass grooves and then my producer/drummer uses that as a basis
Either way works honestly. I normally go guitar - drums - bass - if I'm writing everything from scratch. If it's tracks someone else has sent me to work on, then I like to spend more time on the drums and bass, and then move on to everything else once that's locked in.
2nd one is better, but still, frankly, a lot of room to grow. You got it right that locking in with the drums helps. But... you have so many more techniques you can utilize. Maybe hire a bass player to see what a pro can come up with.
Just depends what you're going for really. There's a million ways you can play a bass line, and every person will add their own unique twist. Just because there's "many more techniques" you can add in, doesn't mean you should. Knowing when to hold back is just as important, if not more so.
@@SugarpillProd there are more than a million ways to do it. If the entire point of the video is "look how this works better than that," then, in my opinion, demonstrating it by adding one bassline writing technique leaves more to be desired. If, instead, the point of the video is "meh, know when to hold back, it's more important," when it comes to writing the bass line, then the video just kind of wastes the viewer's time.
@spastickitchen It was neither. The video isn't about one "technique". The idea was to highlight the different roles a bass usually plays within a composition. A lot of it is based on my past experiences working with bands and artists, so it's addressing a common issue I hear that's prevalent in a lot of peoples writing - of which I used to do the same.
And like I mentioned in the video numerous times, one isn't better than the other, not everything is an absolute. You could go more technical, you could go more basic, it really doesn't matter as long as you're serving the song. Like you said, you could utilise a bunch of other techniques, but that also speaks to the mindset of being more focused on yourself, rather than the composition as a whole. That sort of "tunnel vision" is a super common problem I hear with bands, where they're all concerned about their own individual instruments (both in the writing and mix) but less concerned about how these parts sum together.
I think if you read a lot of the comments, the video seems to have reached the desired audience.
And who says that writing a part focusing on reinforcement of the song versus writing a part designed to highlight a certain instrument doesn't involve writing techniques?
And, furthermore, what sort of writing "serv[es] the song?" If you add any sort of part, and it does nothing to serve the song, then the song should reflect the artists vision better if you mute the instrument. But, it's all up to the artist. The video seems to me to boil down to "check out this riff with this bassline I wrote. I wasn't happy with it, so I replaced it with a bass line that locks into the drums instead of just the guitar. Doesn't it sound better? Maybe, I don't know." "Writing to serve the song," as people put it, is basically just a meaningless aphorism. You write a cool part you like. If it's for someone else, they either like it or not. If I was doing a session, as a bass player, and someone told me to write a bass part for them that served the song, I would just ask them for more information, like, what sort of bassline do they imagine in the song. After all is said and done, the "write to serve the song" language ultimately tells me (or whomever is composing the part) absolutely nothing.
And then, making a video about this topic. I know it takes a lot of time and effort, so I don't mean to sound like I am just trashing your work, but I feel like the interesting part of this topic just kind of gets hinted, instead of developed further. So, constructively, this could be a springboard into another video that dives deeper into the topic of how different sorts of basslines sound over the same riff. That way, the common nothingburger of a phrase "write to serve the song" gets something with meaning to back it up with tangible examples.
Sorry if it sounds "salty," again, I don't mean to crap on the video you clearly put work into. However, I've had so many bad experiences with that phrase and analogs of it (for example: write a song that fits this artist, who hasn't released anything before; or, write a song that fits the vibe of my movie that hasn't been filmed yet; or, use instrumentation that sounds [insert nonmusical adjective here]). I know it's a limitation of communication, but long form video format could be the perfect way to address this sort of thing.
If you'd like to expand on this further, I propose ,if you feel comfortable, you could send me some stems, and I'd be happy to put 3-4 different sorts of bass lines over the riff, and you could do with it whatever you like- use it in a video if you want, throw it away if you think it's trash, make a video about youtube comment, use it in a commercial, whatever.
I'm really speaking from a producer background, so writing a part that serves the song isn't an empty statement, at least not to me. It's about focusing on the focal points of a song, and not injecting unnecessary elements just because you can. That's really it. Like you might be able to come up with the wildest bass part, with double handed tapping, slap and dead notes all over the place, but that's probably not what most people want out of a bass line that's there to serve the song. Especially if it's not the focal point - or one of the focal points - of the composition.
The example given is just a very basic idea to highlight the difference between a typical bass lines that's just been added because most people assume they need bass in their song, vs one that has a little more thought behind the actual groove of said song, and what the drums are doing. A better example I could've used would be to have something with more of an obvious focal point, like vocals, but I was trying to keep things simple just so viewers didn't have too many parts to focus on all at once. It's a hard concept to both teach and show practically, so I thought keeping things as stripped back as possible would work best in this case.
I'm still learning how to best "teach" these ideas, as it's not something that comes naturally to me, so I'm more than happy to take criticism on that end. I'm never often 100% satisfied whenever I finish a video, but I do stand by the points made in this one, and it's not like everything there is to be said on this topic I've covered in these 8 minutes, that would be silly to suggest. I plan to make more on this subject area, because it's a huge concept to explore.
And to your other point, something I've noticed when working with great session musicians, is that they really do focus on every part of a composition, and not just themselves. They might have been hired to only play the bass, drums, whatever, but they're never writing parts to impress the artist or producer, they're writing parts to enhance what's already been presented to them. They're listening for what's needed, and how their part can affect everything else around it. Whereas a more typical band situation usually involves every member concentrating on how "cool" they can make their part, without really giving consideration to the song as a whole. As you said yourself, "you write a cool part", which makes me think you're still talking purely from the perspective of only being focused on your own instrument. I don't think great songs are just made up of every individual band member writing their own "cool part" and this somehow coming together as a well written song. I think great songs are built around 1-2 "cool parts" with everything else wrapping around those, to enhance what's unique about those initial ideas.
While I don't listen to them a lot, Red Hot Chili Peppers are a great starting band to truly "get" the role of bass. It's not about flashy playing and slapping, the guitar and bass have a dialogue, like an old couple finishing each other's words.
Depends on your style of music. The bass is much more than the old stereotype of role you list here. It can be flashy or it can be just a background foundational role helping the drums or it can be a hybrid. RHCP actually does this here and there. All about preference but one way or style isn’t superior to the other
i really had to up my volume for this
That example you're playing in the beginning of the video is PAINFULLY familiar and I can't remember what the song is and it's driving me absolutely nuts. Please help
What if I play guitar like a bassist?
Usually making a song I start with drums, bass, and then guitar over it. Somehow that's harder than making the guitar line first and filling it up with the bass. Then again, filling up might not be the right word. The funkyness or 'swing' or whatever comes from the bass; and usually that makes or breaks a song. Who in the world wants to see/hear example 1 live? Nobody, it's bland and boring.
Lovely video!
I disagree with the premise. Some of the best bass playing of the rock era was by guitarists! Thing Noel Redding, Hendrix’s bassist. Redding was a very talented guitar player. As a guitarist, he knew what he wanted to hear from the bass in order to correctly support the phenomenal Hendrix. One cannot argue with what he did in the Experience.
That wasn't the premise though. It's just a generalisation (based on what I see from bands I've worked with / or who ask for feedback) about how a lot of guitarists tend to approach the bass with the exact same mindset. Sometimes this is fine, but it's an instrument that serves a completely different role to that of guitar in most songs, so it's good practise to know the topics discussed in this video too, imo.
The whole "guitarist who happens to be good at bass" or "bassist who started out on guitar first" is not what I'm referring to here. That whole topic is redundant in this context.
most of what people think of as Hendrix was Noel.
I actually to make myself stop wanting to play my guitar as a bass lol
I bought a bass because i realised i was playing guitar like a bassist 🤷♂️
Same here
*Laughs in Josh Homme's Kyuss era
I’m GUILTY as charged 😂