Thanks for all the comments and stories and meaningful responses. I did not expect this video to take off like this and I am looking forward to spending time reading over all the comments and responding! More videos like this coming :)
“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.” Tolkien lived through two world wars, and still wrote that. I think about that exchange a lot when I feel discouraged or despairing at some great, seemingly implacable darkness in the world. Maybe it would have been easier if I had been born some other time. Maybe I do wish the challenges humanity faces now weren't happening during my lifetime. But I wasn't born any other time, and those things are happening now. We can do nothing but make our peace, and try to work for goodness while we're walking this world.
As much as I love Gandalf's actual reply, I also enjoy the memed version of this exchange: "I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo. "Lmao" said Gandalf. "Well it has"
my favorite quote is when elrond says, ‘small hands do [the deeds that turn the wheels of the world] because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere’
This is a pretty powerful theme, of the small and (supposedly) weak playing a crucial part in bringing down the great powers. It's there in Harry Potter too, with Dobby.
@ to show the quote has been slightly altered. the bit in brackets is from an earlier phrase in the sentence but i didn’t want to quote the entire long sentence or anger anyone by not having the EXACT text of the book
@@TaboraMusic History has played this out, too--Tolkien knew it well as an educated man. Oftentimes it is only inertia that keeps the many people of little means from rising up and overthrowing the powerful and wicked.
Before that point Gimli asks Galadriel for "a single strand" of her hair, and she gives him three. But, Gimli is the second person to ask that of Galadriel. Untold years before, in the land of Valinor, Fëanor the maker or the Silmarils, "begged three times" for a single strand of Galadriel's hair, and she refused him. That Gimli received what the great Fëanor could not is an even more telling.
The fact her answer is something to the effect of "do you see this humble plea? How can I refuse?" Is also telling as to why she accepted Gimli's request but refused Fëanor.
Great comment. Also to extend this a bit, I think Fëanor saw in her hair the gold and the silver (a capturing of the light of the trees of Valinor), which he then captured in the Silmarils. In a sense, the beauty of her hair still reflects the original light of Valinor. Maybe that's a kind of divine beauty? Like witnessing perfection. I also think by her giving Gimli the hairs, when long ago she did not part with them, shows a sort of readiness to finish up her business in Middle Earth as time is running short. She making things right where she can.
@@minoo_h Or maybe Uncle Fëanor was a bit too creepy. He wanted to own the beauty, while Gimli just wanted a reminder of it. In the end, Fëanor obsessed over the Silmarils until they destroyed everyone around him--except Galadriel. Galadriel was wise not to give Uncle Fëanor a hair.
As an ex soldier this has another meaning to me, as it might to Gimli as a seasoned warrior. When you go from a happy peaceful country to a hellish one, where human life isn’t valued and all the rules of human conduct are different, you could stay there and get accustomed to it. Many have. But when you return to your happy, peaceful country and your own people, who seem now child-like in their ignorance of the darkness present in other places of the world, it’s the return to that joyful place that can cut you, because you’ve changed.
My brother is a combat veteran. I don't understand. Maybe he would. Here's a perspective i hope may be fruitful for you to consider: Halbarad was among the Rangers who guarded the Shire in the years prior to the War of the Ring. He said of the Hobbits, "A little people, but of great worth are the Shire-folk. Little do they know of our long labor for the safekeeping of their borders, and yet I grudge it not."
@@jgunner280 Exactly. And the danger of darkness is despair and hopelessness. The history of humanity ever swings back and forth between these two, and it must be so, for, like a grandfather clock with no pendulum, life is not life without change.
He and Christopher Lee knew each other. Christopher Lee was an amazing man who when asked to go into details about his time in the WW2 British SS, he doesn't like to talk about it because he finds the horror of what he experienced to be something unworthy of memory. But it's because of that experience as to why he was also advisor to Peter Jackson on top of being a hired actor. He is part of the reason why most death scenes look realistic, because Mr. Lee often interjected and showed them how it really looked and sounded.
“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history - true or feigned- with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.” -- J.R.R. Tolkien.
And the line does not end there: Legolas answers: "the memory of Lothlórien shall remain ever clear and unstained in your heart, and shall neither fade nor grow stale" that is something that I rely on in times of darkness
Gimli’s response is the line that has resonated with me the most: “Memory is not what the heart desires!” What mourner hasn’t thought this (or wished they could shout it) when well-meaning friends try to comfort you with platitudes?
Since you say you rely on that in times of darkness, does it stay ever clear and unstained in your heart? My heart is easy to forget and in some things it is quick to change memories.
@@TheLEHaskell1There are many things that are very wrong in this world. There is evil that is clear, obvious, and that most are aware of, darkness that we easily identify as such. And somehow we are the ones that are supposed to resist it and defeat it--or at least it seems there are too few rising to the occasion--even though the foundation on which we have to build and work from is so often good tainted by evil, or merely memories of good things, instead of the good things themselves. And especially when there are those that are living on mountains of light and joy, riches and power, and yet will hardly lift a finger to give help--the injustice, and the poignancy of the blindness, misuse, and wastefulness of it all is blindingly stark. It is long past overdue that those that have labored and held against the darkness get more than memories, platitudes, claims and promises. Until it happens though, there are too many that can but will not, and too many that would but cannot, which we should try to see clearly. And so too many of us can expect little more than distant and often blurring memories and platitudes. Hopefully they will prove to be enough, or at least better than nothing, and hopefully those that profit from such labors will be those that actually deserve to.
This also reminds me of another previous moment of the Fellowship as they are entering Lothlorien and Haldir says one of my favorite LOTR quotes across the entire story: “The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.” That’s one of my favorite things about Tolkien’s writing, is the way he always weaves both joy and sorrow together and how you can hold both simultaneously. One does not always outweigh the other, but they are experienced more fully simply by the contrast of knowing both.
Harkens back to his wider lore where iluvatar (god) basically tells Melkor(satan), "And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may yet be played that hath not is uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempted this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined."
@@MrAstrojensen and we don't even mention THAT series... the raw meat one. I don't wanna know what new lows the new adaptation will bring. it has just gone from bad to worse.
They made him into a bumbling backwards idiot in the movies when Tolkien stated that Gimli was the most noble out of the entire fellowship and achieved the most in life while Legolas achieved the least. Yet again the movies they treat Legolas like his poo don't stink.
@@MrAstrojensen To be fair the start of the Hobbit book does have the dwarves begin as clowns before things get serious. It's just not letting them propperly serious up.
"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." Faramir, The Two Towers Edit added context in case people thought I got this from somewhere.
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.” - Illustrated London News, Jan. 14, 1911. Gk chesterton
“Is this reality? It has always been at my side, through pain, I could hardly endure. Yes, this is part of me. Whenever I met death, my sword was with me as I moved past it. After all the places I have seen, and people I can never forget, I’ve felt everything through the tip of my sword. This sword is the proof I ever lived…” “How did you become a Blacksmith?” “Family Trade” “Do you like it” “I don’t know” “You don’t know?” “I’ve been gripping this thing since before I could walk. I didn’t choose this, this is who I am. I just strike it, I don’t think. I spent my youth desperate to forge a better sword, become a more skilled smith. Before I knew it, I was old. I don’t even know what the hell I strike the iron for. But there is still one thing I like about it: the sparks. I like seeing sparks, breathtaking. Life bursting before my eyes for just a moment. My life.” “Sparks… the light born in the clash when two swords meet. They serve me as well. Throughout my life, the moments and people that have defined me, they have all been illuminated by sparks.”
As a disabled person who constantly struggles with inadequacy because I cannot contribute as much, this line makes me cry because it emphasized that it's not how useful someone is, it's how they love that matters.
3:10 That’s a nice interpretation, but I have another. I do not see it as a warning about love and the probability of rejection. Tolkien wrote these books to express his experiences in WW1. From the perspective of a soldier, he warned his readers of happiness, for the grief at the thought of losing what makes you happy dulls your readiness for danger and your will to fight. I've seen people just give up all hope and succumb to despair when the happiness they were expecting was destroyed.
It even get's darker... when you don't think about the rather self-centric dangers of this joy (=your feelings when she leaves you and starts her own life) but instead the huge danger that you are for her. Because if you are a good parent, it will break her (at least a bit) when you die someday. You can only hope that she finds someone who helps her through this dark place. And until then, you should help her built enough strength and courage.
I began to read Tolkien when I was about ten. I’m 73 now and have read the LOTR and the Silmarillion and the Histories many many times. I still share that same experience of reading something I’ve read before as if for the first time. A phrase or dialogue will suddenly focus my attention sharply. It’s one of the delights of reading and rereading Tolkien. Like when a facet of a jewel catches the light in a new blaze of color.
I have always loved this line, from Bilbo's Birthday Speech ''I like half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.'' This confuses his guests and most readers. Half plus less-than-half equals a few left over that are not mentioned. Likely those he loves a lot, like Frodo, and those he actively dislikes, such as the Sackville-Bagginses. He is both too private to express such deep affection in public, and he had already had private words with Frodo), and also too polite to publicly shame those he disliked. It is a masterful formulation of English words that holds many levels of nuance and forever has fascinated me.
This used to be my favorite part of the book. After much therapy and a painful diagnosis, I've been able to grow past some pretty serious character flaws. The part that hits hardest now is the passing of Theoden. "I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed." Misplaced trust, inaction, neglect of loved ones... I hope I get my own Pelennor Fields. Even if it kills me, too.
To heal & gain wisdom is already something great; maybe getting here was your Pelennor Fields, but you get to live in the world you sacrificed so much for Hail, Theoden King!
Painful diagnosis of character flaws? Sounds like either bipolar or borderline.... But note that a diagnosis is by definition not a character, nor a flaw. It is a condition/illness. It's something you cannot cure, and that you did not cause. You still have to manage it the best you can, and minimize the damage it does to you and those you love. But that's not a flaw; merely a challenge :)
I lost multiple pregnancies before I was finally able to have a healthy child. There is nothing I fear more in this life than losing her. She is my light and my joy, and it is the greatest danger I have ever known.
Tolkien served in the British army duringWW1. He had firsthand experience of seeing beauty utterly destroyed. Buildings that stood for years with pristine kept gardens. Forests that had been for generations were burnt down. The loss of loved ones as they were cut down in their youth and prime. He expresses that in many ways throughout his writings. The loss of someone highly regarded and respected for their bravery.
There are so many moments like this in Tolkien's writing. Your heart really is fit to burst after reading his work, such is the virility and levity of those stories. It's hard to be hopeless or nihilistic when you read books written by a man who lived both hell and heaven on earth, and still saw that the light prevails. Thank you for highlighting such an edyifing passage!
This passage covers the owning of a dog .The joy and love and knowing it has to end and leave the empty loss. Still worth every joyful high and every painful low.
I have felt this every time I have lost a dog. One of my favorite passages covers the feeling poignantly: At the hill's foot, Frodo found Aragorn, standing still and silent as a tree; but in his hand was a small golden bloom of elanor, and a light was in his eyes. He was wrapped in some fair memory; and as Frodo looked at him he knew that he beheld things as they once had been in this same place. For the grim years were removed from the face of Aragorn and he seemed clothed in white, a young lord tall and fair; and he spoke words in the Elvish tongue to one whom Frodo could not see. "Arwen vanimelda, namarie!" he said and then he drew a breath, and returning out of his thought he looked at Frodo and smiled. "Here is the heart of Elvendom on earth" he said, "and here my heart dwells ever, unless there be a light beyond the dark roads that we must tread, you and I. Come with me!" And taking Frodo's hand in his, he left the hill of Cerin Amroth and came there never again as living man.
My thoughts exactly. Losing a dearly loved dog cuts deeply, and presses me to avoid becoming that vulnerable again. Will a point be reached where the pain of future loss makes one avoid such beauty and joy? To me, that is what Gimli is saying.
YOU GOT IT!!! I am so pleased that you are able to comprehend this profound truth. Tolkien lost nearly all of his college friends in WWI. 2/3 of the young men in EU and Britain were killed in that war. You can see how this affected him. I'm 77 years old and have re-read LOTR many times. Every time I learn something new or go deeper into what it means to be human. Everyone who encounters great literature and art takes away something they themselves have brought to it, and that insight changes with the accumulation of life experiences.
This brought to mind the part in Men in Black where the young new recruit agent J attempts to console to the perpetually grumpy older agent K: "Well you know what they say, better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all," and K just replies with "Try it sometime." It's been probably 20 or so years since my last read of Lord of the Rings, and you've given me the push I need to jump back into them again. There's so much good stuff in them that I'm sure I've forgotten, or that I might find hitting me now that I'm in a completely different place in life.
And Gimli was not only affected by this love for the rest of his life, but it was part of what kept him from gold-greed. Amd he was the wealthiest and best king of the dwarves to have ever lived.
Gimli was never a king. He was Lord of the Glittering Caves at one point after the main story was over, but the only King after Dain Ironfoot that was mentioned was Thorin III Stonehelm.
Bluto: What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no! Otter: [to Boon] Germans? Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
And of course Aragorns given name by Elrond as his adoptive father was Estel, literally translates as ‘Hope’. So Aragorn’s mother who is the one that said that is also literally saying at the same time,since she was speaking in sindarin, “I gave my son to men, I will not be able (or around) to have him for myself.”
As someone who have seen the light, joy and love for 9 years of my life, and to lose it so soon to the dark, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that a life in darkness and ignorance is so much worse than life in darkness and the fullfilment of having lived. I lost the love of my life to death, and my life is still better now than what it was before I knew her. Yes, the pain is unbearable, but now to think of a life without knowing joy and light is inimaginable, insanity even, people surely go mad from this.
Words cannot ever capture how much I sympathize with you... All I will say is, I wish you the very best in life 🫶🏼 And I hope you get to honor the memory of your lost love many times, and share it with other who knew her
This resonates with me deeply. I had to put down my childhood dog. Enough years passed that I got another puppy. I was able to love again without the pain. But I know the end of the road that will come. That tragic heartbreak will strike again one day and mayhap be stronger since it will be now familiar instead of new. I take it as my responsibility. I must be strong and love and endure that pain for the one I am loving and losing. A burden made all the lighter for knowing I will see each passing friend and loved one again in heaven one day. And then there will be now reason to fear the light and joy. Because they will last forever.
Truly spoken my brother. I am Sixty now and facing trials. Tolkien has been a wonder to me for half a century! Many things will present a different face to you as you grow. This is the beauty in life that costs nothing and is the most invaluable.
I love Tolkien. I haven’t read FotR since I was 16 though. You’ve managed to struck me with such a paradox/conundrum with my own self… and I thank you for it. Long story short, wore my heart on my sleeve and fell in young stupid love at 18. It was not the right love.. I’ve known for a while (I’m 28 now). But I went along with a coercive relationship and she used me and once she got what she wanted she dropped me. That love and joy, the essence you allow yourself to get into followed by sheer anguish is horrible… as many of you may know. But you fortify yourself up after healing and then when the second and better love comes along… I wasn’t able to let down the defences. First girl I couldn’t see the abusiveness but the second time I couldn’t allow myself to accept to goodness out of fear that she’d end up being like the last woman. But paradoxically, my guarded nature is what ended the better last relationship. In hindsight I’m actually glad the second relationship didn’t also go to plan…. In later years we reconnected and she drastically changed for the worse but maybe I wish I was more open to experience the relationship more without being closed off as much and appreciate her worth there and then for the better. It’s amazing how Tolkien incites even allegory/metaphor for my love life 😂. Cheers again for highlighting. Minus romance, it’s still true in a broader sense….. Do you let yourself become vulnerable to enjoy your life with the chance to get hurt. Become confident, go at it, experience as much as you can with the chance of pain or failure. Or do you coast life boarded up and fortified. You’re still living but not to your potential necessarily but you manage to deflect anything negative that comes your way. 🤷♂️
I grew up watching the movies dozens of times, and when I finally read the books, I was on the edge of tears thoughout the Fellowship's visit to Lothlórien. The way its fairness is described, and also *felt* by the characters, is pure magic.
The relationship of Gimli and Galadriel is one of the most poignant and precious scenes in LOTR. It always brings a tear to my eye.. The hard crusty warrior being softened and "conquered" by beauty and grace. And, it is all the more emphasized by the prejudice that Gimli enters Lothlorien with. It's been a while since I read the book and I had forgotten that he also reflects on it in that way as well. Great video! Thank you! Lore🍃
wider context is incredible since Galadriel gave him hair after refusing Feanor who made the Silmarils as a fall back. And contrasts what is in Gimli's heart compared to Feanor
Also, Gimli ends up being THE dwarf that ends the strife between the Elves and Dwarves, which stems back all the way to the Silmarils... And as a reward, he's the only dwarf EVER to sail to Valinor (and even gets accepted, by high high high exception, because Galadriel vouches for him - so he's also the ONLY dwarf ever to get to meet Aule, the Valar who created the race of dwarves) And all of it started in Lorien, when he saw Galadriel's hair and showed that his character outshone that of Feanor
Remember too that Galadriel is changed by Gimli. She herself sees the prejudices she holds and is swayed by his words, like she knows that from such a tongue would come truth and not flattery for gain.
Coming up on 6 months post breakup with the first person in my life I've been able to fall fully into love and happiness with, and this video was such a comfort. I hope I can remember moving forward that to have seen and then lost light, is better than to have never seen it at all.
Grief is a strange thing. It makes us sad to remember something good that we once had that we no longer do, but I would much rather feel that pain than the regret of never having had something good at all.
I take something a little different from that. Gimli is a warrior. His life is lived in the dark side of the world. His value is in his ability to have no self worth and to defeat his enemy, even if it means his death. That is what warriors do. They sacrifice themselves in battle. Give up their humanity. They do it willingly. It’s their purpose and honor to do so. But now, instead of something to die for, there is something to live for. He has been given this gift of light. And this thing to live for challenges all he knows because he only knew how to die for something. He, the warrior - the fearless warrior, is now wounded because he is afraid. He is afraid to die and not see that light again. That fear of dying now makes him no longer believe he is invincible. It’s like modern day soldiers writing a death letter to family. Or when they meet their first new born child. The belief that they need to live, reinforces the belief that they can indeed die. And now that they know they can die, they get cautious. And that can kill you assuredly as the enemy.
It is better to have loved and lost as to never love at all. Happiness is a fleeting moment of the sun's warmth on your face as it sets. Enjoy the warm while it's there for to curse the sun for setting is futile. So to is love. A momentary warms to be enjoyed when it's there.
Tolkien is one of the few writers I know of who acknowledges that opposition can make life worth living. It makes his works more beautiful. I recommend the Silmarillion to anyone who's interested in this part of Tolkien's philosophy. It shows how the beauty in Middle Earth is actually a result of sorrow, despair, contrast, and opposition, not in spite of it. Even though Morgoth thinks he is destroying Middle Earth, his efforts often result in something more beautiful than ever intended (mountains, snow, etc). The music that creates Middle Earth requires that contrast in order to fulfill its full potential. Light is always held stronger when in contrast with darkness.
I'm a 45 year old father, and I have been rereading LOTR since I was 10 years old. I get the pleasure of reading it to my kids now, and find something new and beautiful in it every time, which of course, in my middling years I start crying a little, my kids look at me as if I'm touched in the head, but I cannot help it. This book has helped me through my life (with its Saurons and Galadriels) more than any religious text. (Not knocking religion, but for me this is my gospel in a way).
I've read LOTR seventeen times and thought I had gleaned all there was to know about Middle Earth. But there you go and bring forth a missed golden nugget of wisdom. The wordsmith Tolkien was second only to Shakespeare. Subscribed.
Not just rejection, not just loosing things. But letting things go. Realizing the ephemeral nature of joy and the alure of light and beauty. Cases where the most loving thing you can do is leave.
These books have many hidden treasures in their depths! It is why you read them over and over again. Your point about being in a different place in your life giving new insights is spot on! I have read LOTR 4 times, never closer than 5 years apart, always being in a new place in my life. At 73 I am soon going to read it again, but it won't be my last time! It's good to find another Hobbit like myself, always ready to discover! Thanks!
That's what makes Tolkien such a great writer and subcreator in honor of his Creator: he knows that some things are still sacred, sincere, and beautiful, and he has a way with words to explain it. Thank you, Tolkien, for reminding us that there are things in our world that are worth dying for.
As the son of a soldier, this always seems to be the greatest sacrifice my father made. He saw combat. He’s never voiced regret of seeing the horrors of modern war, but he has shared remorse in the time lost with his wife and kids.
i think Tolkien meant it in broader terms, not rejection, but loss: Gimli was not rejected from Galadriel or Lothlorien's beauty, he had to leave and loose it. the mere terror of gaining something beautiful and fair, and then inevitably loosing it. the deep love creates this insatiable longing. this runs through many of Tolkiens writing, his unwillingness to accept death, his tragic heroes like Turin and Hurin, who find hapiness and loose it in the most brutal ways, time and again.
It's crazy to me how much this century old book can touch people from such wildly different walks in life. Tolkien was the definition of an inspiring artist. I also love how this scene effortlessly shows the development of Legolas and Gimli's relationship without interrupting the story at all. *chef's kiss*
You are a wise young man. Love requires us to be vulnerable. That's why it's so painful. The loss of love can break us. Yet love is our only hope in a joyful life and a peaceful world. Life is the question. Love is the answer.
This video came at such a fitting time for me as someone who is grieving. I’ve been thinking a lot about the experience of intense joy and love, and the inevitable exchange for this in the face of loss. For me, this is how this line from the book resonates with me at the moment. Thank you for highlighting it ❤
Just today I felt that pain after playing some beautiful chamber music with a wonderful violinist and knowing I won’t see her again for a couple of months. ❤️🩹
As someone else said it reminds me of Alfred Lord Tennyson's famous line "it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all." But we all know that losing hurts. I feels this most keenly when it is time to say goodbye to one of my pets. Every time I ask myself why do I do this to myself when I know it is going to break me in the end. I just remind myself that the love and happiness, the light in this world, is always worth the pain of losing it. We only ache for things that mean something.
I recently just finished rereading the book as well, and this time something else really touched me... "But do you remember Gandalf's words: Even Gollum may have something yet to do? But for him, Sam, I could not have destroyed the Ring. The Quest would have been in vain, even at the bitter end. So let us forgive him! For the Quest is achieved and now all is over. I am glad you are here with me. Here at the end of all things, Sam." I got really teary-eyed at "So let us forgive him!", I don't know why but it just hit differently now that I am in a different stage of life.
Peter Jackson has said that there is so much more of the movie that has been unreleased. I really hope lines like these were filmed and will be released some day. There is so much poignant dialogue in the books that deserve to be on screen.
@@panzer00 They deserve to be on screen, because it's a shame that instead of a character that has profound and interesting life observations, was just turned into a comedy relief, silly dwarf guy. In the whole 8-9 hour trilogy, Gimli has only a couple of scenes, where he's taken somewhat seriously. Same with Legolas.
@MrFr2eman i think you just explained why it shouldnt be in the movie - Jackson ruined Gimli; this conversation between him and Legolas wouldnt fit into the new design of Gimli. I watched the movies before I read the books and I was actually mad at how I was led to believe that the movies are the greatest adaptations ever made. The movies are garbage compared to the books and I wholeheartedly agree with Christopher Tolkien's opinion of them.
@@panzer00 And yet in the extended edition, there is an equally poignant conversation between Gimli and Legolas as they leave Lothlorien. Because there is often a lack of seriousness about Gimli's character in the film version of TTT and RotK, that means they shouldn't include more book-accurate dialogue if they had the chance? I think that is a perfect reason for it to be added... unless you purposely don't want to have an improved opinion of the films for reasons.
What a great take from you on this little piece! It only higlights how much effort Tolkien put into everything he wrote. This line resonates with me as well. I can see it as a warning, that the danger of light and joy hides in itself, the light. Light can blind those who get to live in it long enough, making them unaware of the stuggles of those who live in the shadow. And for some, the light is a source of pride feeding their selfishness. But with great pride comes a great fall. Let that be a reminder to all who take the privileges of their life for granted.
Just found this video and now your channel. Thank you for uploading this. What strikes me is the comments here. Everyone is having philosophical discussions about life and perspectives. I think I'll stick around here for a while. Thank you❤
Tolkien was also very religious, and the Bible doesn't describe lucifer as dark, he comes to you wrapped in light and hopes to tempt you with joy. And they describe that as "the false light". I know that's where that connection ends, but I always find it fun to know where that concept started for Tolkien. I could just imagine a little Tolkien sitting in church with his mama hearing that and going "someone wrapped in light?" And that just kick starting the engine in his brain.
You nailed it....bless you and thank you. I've been on both sides of this line...it all hurts, and, yes, there is a lot of emotional and spiritual "damage and loss" when the right things go wrong and get lost....
I have read LOTR at least three times, and you are right. Our ability to perceive the meaning of a line of dialogue often depends on where we are in life. So many share Gimli's experience, but it is rarely expressed so beautifully. Reading many of the other comments makes me wish I could meet each one of you and have a good long talk during which I mostly listen. Thank you.
After the fellowship had traveled through Lothlórien, Frodo observed the difference between Galadriel's home and Rivendell. Frodo remarks that in Elrond's home, one feels that all of Middle Earth's history is recorded and cherished in his relm. Whereas in Lothlórien, one actually walks through history, as though time moved on around that blessed land without touching it. As long as they traveled within Galadriel's land they were literally walking in Middle Earth as it once was. How could this be? Because Lothlórien was sustained through the ring Galadriel wore, one of the three given to the elves. Should the one ring be destroyed, all rings tied to it would be similarly undone along with all created through them, (one of the reason the surviving rings were being used so sparingly). All members of the fellowship knew this. The success of their quest would inevitably bring about the destruction of Lothlórien and hasten the elves leaving Middle Earth. This was the danger of Joy and Light that Gimli referred to: catching a glimpse of something so indescribably mesmerizing and wonderful only to know it's all doomed to vanish forever.
That is what makes this story so timeless. You can read it every few years and you will always find something new to learn or to reinterpret. The same with different generations, one will understand it one way and another will learn other lessons from it. The value of great books can never be understated.
RUclips recommendations wins this round. I am subscribed, sir. And I understand this message. If you never experienced it, you would never have the beautiful memory of it. But it is a hard thing to leave it behind with only the hope that more goodness lies ahead.
The way Master Tolkien writes. Its just perfect. My guru, my leader, my guidance. Read LotR so many times.. And so many more i will No one writes like that anymore... And no one will be.. Everything changed.
Tolkien was a genius, little recognized in his time and under appreciated in ours. He understood the depths of the human soul and how strongly weak it can be in the presence of the light of love. And also in the bonds of friendship and kinships.
There's that wonderful C S Lewis quote from The Four Loves: 'There is no safe investment. To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one, not even to an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements; lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket - safe, dark, motionless, airless- it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable. irredeemable. The alternative to tragedy, or at least to the risk of tragedy, is damnation. The only place outside Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from all the dangers and perturbations of love is Hell.'
If you like this line, you should read the short story by Tolkien's friend and fellow Inkling, "Night Operation" by Owen Barfield. This line encapsulates the message of that story.
This is why rereading great books is such a powerful experience. There are always new epiphanies to be had! Also THANK YOU for making this video short and to-the-point.
Currently rereading the books too. Last year entered a relationship and because I'm not a teenager anymore, health and mortality have been on my mind lately and this passage fits into that well. Those kind of things make me as distraught as Gimli to thing about.
Gimli's friendship with Galadriel is definitely one of the best-crafted relationships in the entire trilogy. It informs and influences his character in subtle ways.
The dangers of light & joy -- the very precious, gentle, bright, beloved things that must be cared for, must be defended, that we must die for... that we must kill for...? These are the creeping tendrils that tempt everyone that starts to lust for the Ring. There is nothing more terrifying than a duty you cannot fulfill, or a ward whom you cannot protect without reaching into an abyss we civilised humans would all like to forget about.
This is why I wish Lord of the Rings was a long TV show instead of being compressed into three movies. That way they would have the time and space they need to bring in these poetic conversations between other characters.
As a husband of 28 years who is completely in love & committed to my wife with whom I am going through a very difficult season & separation from those words really hit home. While I'll fight with every ounce of my being, & the strength God gives me (as my strength isn't enough) to be with my wife again as she has brought such love & beauty into my life (including nine kids). As painful as it's been to be separated from that, & to potentially never experience that again I'd still rather have experienced it knowing how incredibly painful & dark her absence would be then to never have seen that light & joy in its full splendor.
Wow, thank you so much for sharing this vulnerable part of your life! You have the right perspective friend - ah the danger of light and joy but ah the beauty of real love!
I think something that brings comfort on this is the fact that Gimli saw once more the beauty of Lothlorien, maybe something even more beatuifull, as he travelled into the Undying Lands with Legolas. And that is the joy in the underlying message of LOTR, and in fact, as Tolkien would say, of the Greater Story (our story): in the end, even when darkness seems to have won, when it seems to have the final say, Beauty and Goodness prevail. "For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach." Return of the King
I love this commentary. I always thought of "the danger of light and joy" as what cripples the darkness. Being in light and joy, experiencing it, that gives us something to fight for and in order to fight for it, we must continue cultivate it. The risk of rejection, or in this case of the Dark Lord destroying everything, is why continuing to create it is so critical. Gimly, in my view, is used to being a warrior and in this moment is one step away from realising that he can, and should, dance at the revolution. He can be the light and spread joy. (And frankly, that is part of his character's role in the entire series, he's got my favourite comic relief moments.)
Thanks for all the comments and stories and meaningful responses. I did not expect this video to take off like this and I am looking forward to spending time reading over all the comments and responding! More videos like this coming :)
2:58 That is why hell exists, because for people to have free will, people have to have the freedom to reject God's love.
“I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"So do I," said Gandalf, "and so do all who live to see such times. But that is not for them to decide. All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us.”
Tolkien lived through two world wars, and still wrote that. I think about that exchange a lot when I feel discouraged or despairing at some great, seemingly implacable darkness in the world. Maybe it would have been easier if I had been born some other time. Maybe I do wish the challenges humanity faces now weren't happening during my lifetime. But I wasn't born any other time, and those things are happening now. We can do nothing but make our peace, and try to work for goodness while we're walking this world.
Well said friend! May we keep going with courage and love!
My favourite quite from LOTR
Wild that this still applies today
As much as I love Gandalf's actual reply, I also enjoy the memed version of this exchange:
"I wish it need not have happened in my time," said Frodo.
"Lmao" said Gandalf. "Well it has"
my favorite quote is when elrond says, ‘small hands do [the deeds that turn the wheels of the world] because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere’
This is a pretty powerful theme, of the small and (supposedly) weak playing a crucial part in bringing down the great powers. It's there in Harry Potter too, with Dobby.
Why is that bit in brackets?
@ to show the quote has been slightly altered. the bit in brackets is from an earlier phrase in the sentence but i didn’t want to quote the entire long sentence or anger anyone by not having the EXACT text of the book
@@TaboraMusic History has played this out, too--Tolkien knew it well as an educated man. Oftentimes it is only inertia that keeps the many people of little means from rising up and overthrowing the powerful and wicked.
This makes sense.
Before that point Gimli asks Galadriel for "a single strand" of her hair, and she gives him three. But, Gimli is the second person to ask that of Galadriel. Untold years before, in the land of Valinor, Fëanor the maker or the Silmarils, "begged three times" for a single strand of Galadriel's hair, and she refused him. That Gimli received what the great Fëanor could not is an even more telling.
The fact her answer is something to the effect of "do you see this humble plea? How can I refuse?" Is also telling as to why she accepted Gimli's request but refused Fëanor.
@@aaronimp4966 Fëanor was indeed one of the greatest of the Noldor, and his pride was equal to his skill. And what doomed him and his family.
Fëanor is that creepy uncle you want to avoid at family gatherings.
Great comment. Also to extend this a bit, I think Fëanor saw in her hair the gold and the silver (a capturing of the light of the trees of Valinor), which he then captured in the Silmarils. In a sense, the beauty of her hair still reflects the original light of Valinor. Maybe that's a kind of divine beauty? Like witnessing perfection. I also think by her giving Gimli the hairs, when long ago she did not part with them, shows a sort of readiness to finish up her business in Middle Earth as time is running short. She making things right where she can.
@@minoo_h Or maybe Uncle Fëanor was a bit too creepy. He wanted to own the beauty, while Gimli just wanted a reminder of it. In the end, Fëanor obsessed over the Silmarils until they destroyed everyone around him--except Galadriel. Galadriel was wise not to give Uncle Fëanor a hair.
As an ex soldier this has another meaning to me, as it might to Gimli as a seasoned warrior. When you go from a happy peaceful country to a hellish one, where human life isn’t valued and all the rules of human conduct are different, you could stay there and get accustomed to it. Many have. But when you return to your happy, peaceful country and your own people, who seem now child-like in their ignorance of the darkness present in other places of the world, it’s the return to that joyful place that can cut you, because you’ve changed.
My brother is a combat veteran. I don't understand. Maybe he would.
Here's a perspective i hope may be fruitful for you to consider:
Halbarad was among the Rangers who guarded the Shire in the years prior to the War of the Ring. He said of the Hobbits, "A little people, but of great worth are the Shire-folk. Little do they know of our long labor for the safekeeping of their borders, and yet I grudge it not."
Thanks for this perspective
this is more my takeaway from Gimli's realization too
Precisely more of my take away. The danger of light and joy is complacency.
@@jgunner280 Exactly. And the danger of darkness is despair and hopelessness. The history of humanity ever swings back and forth between these two, and it must be so, for, like a grandfather clock with no pendulum, life is not life without change.
Passages like this one are especially poignant when you remember that Tolkien was a WW1 combat veteran.
He and Christopher Lee knew each other. Christopher Lee was an amazing man who when asked to go into details about his time in the WW2 British SS, he doesn't like to talk about it because he finds the horror of what he experienced to be something unworthy of memory. But it's because of that experience as to why he was also advisor to Peter Jackson on top of being a hired actor. He is part of the reason why most death scenes look realistic, because Mr. Lee often interjected and showed them how it really looked and sounded.
“I cordially dislike allegory in all its manifestations, and always have done so since I grew old and wary enough to detect its presence. I much prefer history - true or feigned- with its varied applicability to the thought and experience of readers. I think that many confuse applicability with allegory, but the one resides in the freedom of the reader, and the other in the purposed domination of the author.” -- J.R.R. Tolkien.
And the context that he was creating the narrative and likely writing lines like this in the lead up to, or early days of, WWII.
@@BradKasprzak If you think about it, the whole story is a parallel to WWII
@@HaltGrimbowit may not be allegory but one cannot help but draw upon one's own experiences.
And the line does not end there: Legolas answers: "the memory of Lothlórien shall remain ever clear and unstained in your heart, and shall neither fade nor grow stale" that is something that I rely on in times of darkness
Like the light of the Evenstar. It shines in the darkest places.
Gimli’s response is the line that has resonated with me the most:
“Memory is not what the heart desires!”
What mourner hasn’t thought this (or wished they could shout it) when well-meaning friends try to comfort you with platitudes?
Since you say you rely on that in times of darkness, does it stay ever clear and unstained in your heart? My heart is easy to forget and in some things it is quick to change memories.
Then maybe it is well so? As a kind of healing...? Idk And it is not the only thing I rely on. But maybe some lights are stronger. 😊
@@TheLEHaskell1There are many things that are very wrong in this world. There is evil that is clear, obvious, and that most are aware of, darkness that we easily identify as such.
And somehow we are the ones that are supposed to resist it and defeat it--or at least it seems there are too few rising to the occasion--even though the foundation on which we have to build and work from is so often good tainted by evil, or merely memories of good things, instead of the good things themselves. And especially when there are those that are living on mountains of light and joy, riches and power, and yet will hardly lift a finger to give help--the injustice, and the poignancy of the blindness, misuse, and wastefulness of it all is blindingly stark.
It is long past overdue that those that have labored and held against the darkness get more than memories, platitudes, claims and promises.
Until it happens though, there are too many that can but will not, and too many that would but cannot, which we should try to see clearly. And so too many of us can expect little more than distant and often blurring memories and platitudes. Hopefully they will prove to be enough, or at least better than nothing, and hopefully those that profit from such labors will be those that actually deserve to.
This also reminds me of another previous moment of the Fellowship as they are entering Lothlorien and Haldir says one of my favorite LOTR quotes across the entire story:
“The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair, and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater.”
That’s one of my favorite things about Tolkien’s writing, is the way he always weaves both joy and sorrow together and how you can hold both simultaneously. One does not always outweigh the other, but they are experienced more fully simply by the contrast of knowing both.
Yes!!!
Tolkien's bittersweet. And our's.
You cannot have one without the other. Truly - gladly and sadly. Otherwise you would not ever know what it was that you had.
That is my favorite line from the trilogy!
Harkens back to his wider lore where iluvatar (god) basically tells Melkor(satan),
"And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may yet be played that hath not is uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempted this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined."
Gimli was a poet in the books and a punchline in the movies. - Paraphrase Jess of the Shire
And in the Hobbit movies, the dwarfs had become clowns. So sad. It could have been handled with more honor, in my opinion.
@@MrAstrojensen and we don't even mention THAT series... the raw meat one.
I don't wanna know what new lows the new adaptation will bring. it has just gone from bad to worse.
I was deeply disappointed in what they did to the brave and honorable Gimli.
They made him into a bumbling backwards idiot in the movies when Tolkien stated that Gimli was the most noble out of the entire fellowship and achieved the most in life while Legolas achieved the least. Yet again the movies they treat Legolas like his poo don't stink.
@@MrAstrojensen To be fair the start of the Hobbit book does have the dwarves begin as clowns before things get serious. It's just not letting them propperly serious up.
"I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend." Faramir, The Two Towers
Edit added context in case people thought I got this from somewhere.
"The true soldier fights not because he hates what is in front of him, but because he loves what is behind him.” - Illustrated London News, Jan. 14, 1911. Gk chesterton
“Is this reality? It has always been at my side, through pain, I could hardly endure. Yes, this is part of me. Whenever I met death, my sword was with me as I moved past it. After all the places I have seen, and people I can never forget, I’ve felt everything through the tip of my sword. This sword is the proof I ever lived…”
“How did you become a Blacksmith?”
“Family Trade”
“Do you like it”
“I don’t know”
“You don’t know?”
“I’ve been gripping this thing since before I could walk. I didn’t choose this, this is who I am. I just strike it, I don’t think. I spent my youth desperate to forge a better sword, become a more skilled smith. Before I knew it, I was old. I don’t even know what the hell I strike the iron for. But there is still one thing I like about it: the sparks. I like seeing sparks, breathtaking. Life bursting before my eyes for just a moment. My life.”
“Sparks… the light born in the clash when two swords meet. They serve me as well. Throughout my life, the moments and people that have defined me, they have all been illuminated by sparks.”
Yes!!! This fits well with this conversation. Blessings.
As a disabled person who constantly struggles with inadequacy because I cannot contribute as much, this line makes me cry because it emphasized that it's not how useful someone is, it's how they love that matters.
Well, you should. Appreciate the little things.
3:10 That’s a nice interpretation, but I have another. I do not see it as a warning about love and the probability of rejection. Tolkien wrote these books to express his experiences in WW1. From the perspective of a soldier, he warned his readers of happiness, for the grief at the thought of losing what makes you happy dulls your readiness for danger and your will to fight. I've seen people just give up all hope and succumb to despair when the happiness they were expecting was destroyed.
I sometimes feel this danger of light and joy when spending time with my daughter. You can't help but dread the inevitable end of something so joyous.
It even get's darker... when you don't think about the rather self-centric dangers of this joy (=your feelings when she leaves you and starts her own life) but instead the huge danger that you are for her. Because if you are a good parent, it will break her (at least a bit) when you die someday. You can only hope that she finds someone who helps her through this dark place. And until then, you should help her built enough strength and courage.
I began to read Tolkien when I was about ten. I’m 73 now and have read the LOTR and the Silmarillion and the Histories many many times. I still share that same experience of reading something I’ve read before as if for the first time. A phrase or dialogue will suddenly focus my attention sharply. It’s one of the delights of reading and rereading Tolkien. Like when a facet of a jewel catches the light in a new blaze of color.
I experience the same. Thank you for sharing.
I have always loved this line, from Bilbo's Birthday Speech
''I like half of you half as well as I should like, and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.''
This confuses his guests and most readers. Half plus less-than-half equals a few left over that are not mentioned. Likely those he loves a lot, like Frodo, and those he actively dislikes, such as the Sackville-Bagginses. He is both too private to express such deep affection in public, and he had already had private words with Frodo), and also too polite to publicly shame those he disliked.
It is a masterful formulation of English words that holds many levels of nuance and forever has fascinated me.
Extremely well put. I absolutely agree.
And not just rejection, but also the ultimate fate of losing what we have come to love, one way or the other.
This used to be my favorite part of the book.
After much therapy and a painful diagnosis, I've been able to grow past some pretty serious character flaws.
The part that hits hardest now is the passing of Theoden.
"I go to my fathers. And even in their mighty company I shall not now be ashamed."
Misplaced trust, inaction, neglect of loved ones... I hope I get my own Pelennor Fields. Even if it kills me, too.
O7
Hail, Theoden King!
To heal & gain wisdom is already something great; maybe getting here was your Pelennor Fields, but you get to live in the world you sacrificed so much for
Hail, Theoden King!
❤
@@siekierskipaa-nm2ps
That is what I tell myself, and it does help a bit. Takes time for self kindness to set in.
Painful diagnosis of character flaws?
Sounds like either bipolar or borderline....
But note that a diagnosis is by definition not a character, nor a flaw. It is a condition/illness.
It's something you cannot cure, and that you did not cause.
You still have to manage it the best you can, and minimize the damage it does to you and those you love.
But that's not a flaw; merely a challenge :)
I lost multiple pregnancies before I was finally able to have a healthy child. There is nothing I fear more in this life than losing her. She is my light and my joy, and it is the greatest danger I have ever known.
Tolkien served in the British army duringWW1. He had firsthand experience of seeing beauty utterly destroyed. Buildings that stood for years with pristine kept gardens. Forests that had been for generations were burnt down. The loss of loved ones as they were cut down in their youth and prime. He expresses that in many ways throughout his writings. The loss of someone highly regarded and respected for their bravery.
There are so many moments like this in Tolkien's writing. Your heart really is fit to burst after reading his work, such is the virility and levity of those stories. It's hard to be hopeless or nihilistic when you read books written by a man who lived both hell and heaven on earth, and still saw that the light prevails.
Thank you for highlighting such an edyifing passage!
Completely unrelated to the video, but what you wrote reminded me clearly of what I felt when I read Saint Exupery, another master of words.
Yes, beautifully put 👏
This passage covers the owning of a dog .The joy and love and knowing it has to end and leave the empty loss. Still worth every joyful high and every painful low.
I have felt this every time I have lost a dog.
One of my favorite passages covers the feeling poignantly:
At the hill's foot, Frodo found Aragorn, standing still and silent as a tree; but in his hand was a small golden bloom of elanor, and a light was in his eyes. He was wrapped in some fair memory; and as Frodo looked at him he knew that he beheld things as they once had been in this same place. For the grim years were removed from the face of Aragorn and he seemed clothed in white, a young lord tall and fair; and he spoke words in the Elvish tongue to one whom Frodo could not see. "Arwen vanimelda, namarie!" he said and then he drew a breath, and returning out of his thought he looked at Frodo and smiled. "Here is the heart of Elvendom on earth" he said, "and here my heart dwells ever, unless there be a light beyond the dark roads that we must tread, you and I. Come with me!" And taking Frodo's hand in his, he left the hill of Cerin Amroth and came there never again as living man.
My thoughts exactly. Losing a dearly loved dog cuts deeply, and presses me to avoid becoming that vulnerable again.
Will a point be reached where the pain of future loss makes one avoid such beauty and joy? To me, that is what Gimli is saying.
YOU GOT IT!!! I am so pleased that you are able to comprehend this profound truth. Tolkien lost nearly all of his college friends in WWI. 2/3 of the young men in EU and Britain were killed in that war. You can see how this affected him. I'm 77 years old and have re-read LOTR many times. Every time I learn something new or go deeper into what it means to be human. Everyone who encounters great literature and art takes away something they themselves have brought to it, and that insight changes with the accumulation of life experiences.
The fact that people are still reading these stories never fails to give me joy.
This brought to mind the part in Men in Black where the young new recruit agent J attempts to console to the perpetually grumpy older agent K: "Well you know what they say, better to have loved and lost than to have never loved at all," and K just replies with "Try it sometime."
It's been probably 20 or so years since my last read of Lord of the Rings, and you've given me the push I need to jump back into them again. There's so much good stuff in them that I'm sure I've forgotten, or that I might find hitting me now that I'm in a completely different place in life.
Oh, please read LOTR again. 20 years is far too long.
Me too!!!!
'I hold it true, whate'er befall;
I feel it, when I sorrow most;
'Tis better to have loved and lost
Than never to have loved at all.'
~ Tennyson
This quote was on my mind as well while hearing this video :)
And Gimli was not only affected by this love for the rest of his life, but it was part of what kept him from gold-greed. Amd he was the wealthiest and best king of the dwarves to have ever lived.
What is gold, when I have seen the Lady of Lothlorien? A pale imitation of her hair.
- Gimli, probably.
Gimli was never a king. He was Lord of the Glittering Caves at one point after the main story was over, but the only King after Dain Ironfoot that was mentioned was Thorin III Stonehelm.
Wrong, he never became a king.
But it is what eventually drew him to the undying lands.
He's the only dwarf to have ever sailed West...
125 people give a thumbs up to a preposterous comment saying Gimli was the best dwarf king when he was never a king. Smh...
Bluto: What? Over? Did you say "over"? Nothing is over until we decide it is! Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Hell no!
Otter: [to Boon] Germans?
Boon: Forget it, he's rolling.
So beautiful! Tolkien’s veil was very thin and his understanding of humanity was far beyond this world.
Yes!!!
Beautifully put
This line haunts me too. Others -- "I give Hope to men. I keep none for myself." And, "Is all that was sad going to come untrue?"
I pray so...
And of course Aragorns given name by Elrond as his adoptive father was Estel, literally translates as ‘Hope’. So Aragorn’s mother who is the one that said that is also literally saying at the same time,since she was speaking in sindarin, “I gave my son to men, I will not be able (or around) to have him for myself.”
The Chosen vibes
As someone who have seen the light, joy and love for 9 years of my life, and to lose it so soon to the dark, I can say without a shadow of a doubt that a life in darkness and ignorance is so much worse than life in darkness and the fullfilment of having lived.
I lost the love of my life to death, and my life is still better now than what it was before I knew her.
Yes, the pain is unbearable, but now to think of a life without knowing joy and light is inimaginable, insanity even, people surely go mad from this.
If you haven’t read Tolkien’s friend C. S. Lewis “A Grief Observed” which he wrote after the death of his wife Joy, I’d commend it to you
Words cannot ever capture how much I sympathize with you...
All I will say is, I wish you the very best in life 🫶🏼
And I hope you get to honor the memory of your lost love many times, and share it with other who knew her
Wow thank you for sharing this friend! It takes a strong heart to have this perspective and I think it is beautiful and meaningful!
This resonates with me deeply. I had to put down my childhood dog. Enough years passed that I got another puppy. I was able to love again without the pain. But I know the end of the road that will come. That tragic heartbreak will strike again one day and mayhap be stronger since it will be now familiar instead of new.
I take it as my responsibility. I must be strong and love and endure that pain for the one I am loving and losing. A burden made all the lighter for knowing I will see each passing friend and loved one again in heaven one day. And then there will be now reason to fear the light and joy. Because they will last forever.
Truly spoken my brother. I am Sixty now and facing trials. Tolkien has been a wonder to me for half a century! Many things will present a different face to you as you grow. This is the beauty in life that costs nothing and is the most invaluable.
Well said!
I love Tolkien. I haven’t read FotR since I was 16 though. You’ve managed to struck me with such a paradox/conundrum with my own self… and I thank you for it. Long story short, wore my heart on my sleeve and fell in young stupid love at 18. It was not the right love.. I’ve known for a while (I’m 28 now). But I went along with a coercive relationship and she used me and once she got what she wanted she dropped me. That love and joy, the essence you allow yourself to get into followed by sheer anguish is horrible… as many of you may know.
But you fortify yourself up after healing and then when the second and better love comes along… I wasn’t able to let down the defences. First girl I couldn’t see the abusiveness but the second time I couldn’t allow myself to accept to goodness out of fear that she’d end up being like the last woman. But paradoxically, my guarded nature is what ended the better last relationship.
In hindsight I’m actually glad the second relationship didn’t also go to plan…. In later years we reconnected and she drastically changed for the worse but maybe I wish I was more open to experience the relationship more without being closed off as much and appreciate her worth there and then for the better.
It’s amazing how Tolkien incites even allegory/metaphor for my love life 😂. Cheers again for highlighting. Minus romance, it’s still true in a broader sense…..
Do you let yourself become vulnerable to enjoy your life with the chance to get hurt. Become confident, go at it, experience as much as you can with the chance of pain or failure. Or do you coast life boarded up and fortified. You’re still living but not to your potential necessarily but you manage to deflect anything negative that comes your way. 🤷♂️
I grew up watching the movies dozens of times, and when I finally read the books, I was on the edge of tears thoughout the Fellowship's visit to Lothlórien. The way its fairness is described, and also *felt* by the characters, is pure magic.
The relationship of Gimli and Galadriel is one of the most poignant and precious scenes in LOTR. It always brings a tear to my eye.. The hard crusty warrior being softened and "conquered" by beauty and grace. And, it is all the more emphasized by the prejudice that Gimli enters Lothlorien with. It's been a while since I read the book and I had forgotten that he also reflects on it in that way as well.
Great video! Thank you!
Lore🍃
wider context is incredible since Galadriel gave him hair after refusing Feanor who made the Silmarils as a fall back. And contrasts what is in Gimli's heart compared to Feanor
Also, literarily speaking, contrast how Gimli enters Lothlorian with how he leaves. He’s fearful, blindfolded, and angry.
Also, Gimli ends up being THE dwarf that ends the strife between the Elves and Dwarves, which stems back all the way to the Silmarils...
And as a reward, he's the only dwarf EVER to sail to Valinor (and even gets accepted, by high high high exception, because Galadriel vouches for him - so he's also the ONLY dwarf ever to get to meet Aule, the Valar who created the race of dwarves)
And all of it started in Lorien, when he saw Galadriel's hair and showed that his character outshone that of Feanor
Remember too that Galadriel is changed by Gimli. She herself sees the prejudices she holds and is swayed by his words, like she knows that from such a tongue would come truth and not flattery for gain.
Coming up on 6 months post breakup with the first person in my life I've been able to fall fully into love and happiness with, and this video was such a comfort.
I hope I can remember moving forward that to have seen and then lost light, is better than to have never seen it at all.
Grief is a strange thing. It makes us sad to remember something good that we once had that we no longer do, but I would much rather feel that pain than the regret of never having had something good at all.
Wandavision had a great quote on grief. "What is grief but love enduring".
I take something a little different from that. Gimli is a warrior. His life is lived in the dark side of the world. His value is in his ability to have no self worth and to defeat his enemy, even if it means his death. That is what warriors do. They sacrifice themselves in battle. Give up their humanity. They do it willingly. It’s their purpose and honor to do so.
But now, instead of something to die for, there is something to live for. He has been given this gift of light. And this thing to live for challenges all he knows because he only knew how to die for something. He, the warrior - the fearless warrior, is now wounded because he is afraid. He is afraid to die and not see that light again. That fear of dying now makes him no longer believe he is invincible.
It’s like modern day soldiers writing a death letter to family. Or when they meet their first new born child. The belief that they need to live, reinforces the belief that they can indeed die. And now that they know they can die, they get cautious. And that can kill you assuredly as the enemy.
It is better to have loved and lost as to never love at all.
Happiness is a fleeting moment of the sun's warmth on your face as it sets. Enjoy the warm while it's there for to curse the sun for setting is futile. So to is love. A momentary warms to be enjoyed when it's there.
Tolkien is one of the few writers I know of who acknowledges that opposition can make life worth living. It makes his works more beautiful. I recommend the Silmarillion to anyone who's interested in this part of Tolkien's philosophy. It shows how the beauty in Middle Earth is actually a result of sorrow, despair, contrast, and opposition, not in spite of it. Even though Morgoth thinks he is destroying Middle Earth, his efforts often result in something more beautiful than ever intended (mountains, snow, etc). The music that creates Middle Earth requires that contrast in order to fulfill its full potential. Light is always held stronger when in contrast with darkness.
@@P-39_Airacobra Yes, it is the bittersweet truth of the Silmarillion. Thank you for pointing this out!
The way you speak and read is so soothing that I locked in to every word you said
I'm a 45 year old father, and I have been rereading LOTR since I was 10 years old. I get the pleasure of reading it to my kids now, and find something new and beautiful in it every time, which of course, in my middling years I start crying a little, my kids look at me as if I'm touched in the head, but I cannot help it. This book has helped me through my life (with its Saurons and Galadriels) more than any religious text. (Not knocking religion, but for me this is my gospel in a way).
I've read LOTR seventeen times and thought I had gleaned all there was to know about Middle Earth. But there you go and bring forth a missed golden nugget of wisdom. The wordsmith Tolkien was second only to Shakespeare. Subscribed.
All things end. This is the way. As we age we learn this. All is transient. And that includes all we love and enjoy. And that is saddening.
This line was sorely missing from the movie. Thank you for bringing appreciation to an outstanding piece of thematic dialogue
It's lovely to see someone so moved by writing.
Not just rejection, not just loosing things. But letting things go. Realizing the ephemeral nature of joy and the alure of light and beauty. Cases where the most loving thing you can do is leave.
These books have many hidden treasures in their depths! It is why you read them over and over again. Your point about being in a different place in your life giving new insights is spot on! I have read LOTR 4 times, never closer than 5 years apart, always being in a new place in my life. At 73 I am soon going to read it again, but it won't be my last time! It's good to find another Hobbit like myself, always ready to discover! Thanks!
That's what makes Tolkien such a great writer and subcreator in honor of his Creator: he knows that some things are still sacred, sincere, and beautiful, and he has a way with words to explain it. Thank you, Tolkien, for reminding us that there are things in our world that are worth dying for.
Very well put. Thank you! 😊
Worth living for too
As the son of a soldier, this always seems to be the greatest sacrifice my father made. He saw combat. He’s never voiced regret of seeing the horrors of modern war, but he has shared remorse in the time lost with his wife and kids.
i think Tolkien meant it in broader terms, not rejection, but loss: Gimli was not rejected from Galadriel or Lothlorien's beauty, he had to leave and loose it. the mere terror of gaining something beautiful and fair, and then inevitably loosing it. the deep love creates this insatiable longing. this runs through many of Tolkiens writing, his unwillingness to accept death, his tragic heroes like Turin and Hurin, who find hapiness and loose it in the most brutal ways, time and again.
1:09 was either the worst or best place to stop
It's crazy to me how much this century old book can touch people from such wildly different walks in life. Tolkien was the definition of an inspiring artist.
I also love how this scene effortlessly shows the development of Legolas and Gimli's relationship without interrupting the story at all.
*chef's kiss*
You are a wise young man.
Love requires us to be vulnerable. That's why it's so painful. The loss of love can break us. Yet love is our only hope in a joyful life and a peaceful world.
Life is the question.
Love is the answer.
I listen to audio books while I paint, and this line crushed me. Totally changed the way I look at Gimli.
This video came at such a fitting time for me as someone who is grieving. I’ve been thinking a lot about the experience of intense joy and love, and the inevitable exchange for this in the face of loss. For me, this is how this line from the book resonates with me at the moment. Thank you for highlighting it ❤
Thanks for sharing !
Just today I felt that pain after playing some beautiful chamber music with a wonderful violinist and knowing I won’t see her again for a couple of months. ❤️🩹
As someone else said it reminds me of Alfred Lord Tennyson's famous line "it is better to have loved and lost than never to have loved at all." But we all know that losing hurts. I feels this most keenly when it is time to say goodbye to one of my pets. Every time I ask myself why do I do this to myself when I know it is going to break me in the end. I just remind myself that the love and happiness, the light in this world, is always worth the pain of losing it. We only ache for things that mean something.
I think this is one of the most important lessons in life. To dare even though you know you will lose what you love.
It is because of what we love that we dare.
what gimli forgot was that you have your own free will. do you give it away. do you fight for it. do you die for it.
I recently just finished rereading the book as well, and this time something else really touched me...
"But do you remember Gandalf's words: Even Gollum may have something yet to do? But for him, Sam, I could not have destroyed the Ring. The Quest would have been in vain, even at the bitter end. So let us forgive him! For the Quest is achieved and now all is over. I am glad you are here with me. Here at the end of all things, Sam."
I got really teary-eyed at "So let us forgive him!", I don't know why but it just hit differently now that I am in a different stage of life.
🙌🏼 YES
Peter Jackson has said that there is so much more of the movie that has been unreleased. I really hope lines like these were filmed and will be released some day. There is so much poignant dialogue in the books that deserve to be on screen.
Why do they deserve to be on screen? Is it not enough that they are sanctified on page.
@@panzer00 They deserve to be on screen, because it's a shame that instead of a character that has profound and interesting life observations, was just turned into a comedy relief, silly dwarf guy.
In the whole 8-9 hour trilogy, Gimli has only a couple of scenes, where he's taken somewhat seriously. Same with Legolas.
@MrFr2eman i think you just explained why it shouldnt be in the movie - Jackson ruined Gimli; this conversation between him and Legolas wouldnt fit into the new design of Gimli.
I watched the movies before I read the books and I was actually mad at how I was led to believe that the movies are the greatest adaptations ever made.
The movies are garbage compared to the books and I wholeheartedly agree with Christopher Tolkien's opinion of them.
Some were for sure
@@panzer00 And yet in the extended edition, there is an equally poignant conversation between Gimli and Legolas as they leave Lothlorien. Because there is often a lack of seriousness about Gimli's character in the film version of TTT and RotK, that means they shouldn't include more book-accurate dialogue if they had the chance? I think that is a perfect reason for it to be added... unless you purposely don't want to have an improved opinion of the films for reasons.
What a great take from you on this little piece! It only higlights how much effort Tolkien put into everything he wrote. This line resonates with me as well. I can see it as a warning, that the danger of light and joy hides in itself, the light.
Light can blind those who get to live in it long enough, making them unaware of the stuggles of those who live in the shadow. And for some, the light is a source of pride feeding their selfishness. But with great pride comes a great fall. Let that be a reminder to all who take the privileges of their life for granted.
Just found this video and now your channel. Thank you for uploading this.
What strikes me is the comments here.
Everyone is having philosophical discussions about life and perspectives.
I think I'll stick around here for a while.
Thank you❤
Yes, that is my hope and desire that these videos don’t just take up time or entertain but spark deep, beautiful and stirring thoughts.
Thanks for your words and thoughts brother. I too was impacted by the words in those books and films. I may go back and read them again.
Tolkien was also very religious, and the Bible doesn't describe lucifer as dark, he comes to you wrapped in light and hopes to tempt you with joy. And they describe that as "the false light". I know that's where that connection ends, but I always find it fun to know where that concept started for Tolkien. I could just imagine a little Tolkien sitting in church with his mama hearing that and going "someone wrapped in light?" And that just kick starting the engine in his brain.
You nailed it....bless you and thank you. I've been on both sides of this line...it all hurts, and, yes, there is a lot of emotional and spiritual "damage and loss" when the right things go wrong and get lost....
I have read LOTR at least three times, and you are right. Our ability to perceive the meaning of a line of dialogue often depends on where we are in life. So many share Gimli's experience, but it is rarely expressed so beautifully. Reading many of the other comments makes me wish I could meet each one of you and have a good long talk during which I mostly listen. Thank you.
“Where there is life, there is hope.” Samwise Gamgee
Great, very profound insight brother, thank you for bringing this passage to our attention.
I once heard a quote that said something like "grief is love's souvenir. It is the proof that we once loved" and I think about that often
After the fellowship had traveled through Lothlórien, Frodo observed the difference between Galadriel's home and Rivendell. Frodo remarks that in Elrond's home, one feels that all of Middle Earth's history is recorded and cherished in his relm. Whereas in Lothlórien, one actually walks through history, as though time moved on around that blessed land without touching it. As long as they traveled within Galadriel's land they were literally walking in Middle Earth as it once was. How could this be? Because Lothlórien was sustained through the ring Galadriel wore, one of the three given to the elves. Should the one ring be destroyed, all rings tied to it would be similarly undone along with all created through them, (one of the reason the surviving rings were being used so sparingly). All members of the fellowship knew this. The success of their quest would inevitably bring about the destruction of Lothlórien and hasten the elves leaving Middle Earth. This was the danger of Joy and Light that Gimli referred to: catching a glimpse of something so indescribably mesmerizing and wonderful only to know it's all doomed to vanish forever.
That is what makes this story so timeless. You can read it every few years and you will always find something new to learn or to reinterpret. The same with different generations, one will understand it one way and another will learn other lessons from it. The value of great books can never be understated.
So true!
It's a blessing to be able to grief for something.
RUclips recommendations wins this round. I am subscribed, sir.
And I understand this message. If you never experienced it, you would never have the beautiful memory of it. But it is a hard thing to leave it behind with only the hope that more goodness lies ahead.
The way Master Tolkien writes. Its just perfect. My guru, my leader, my guidance. Read LotR so many times.. And so many more i will
No one writes like that anymore... And no one will be.. Everything changed.
Tolkien was a genius, little recognized in his time and under appreciated in ours. He understood the depths of the human soul and how strongly weak it can be in the presence of the light of love. And also in the bonds of friendship and kinships.
There's that wonderful C S Lewis quote from The Four Loves: 'There is no safe investment. To love at all is to be vulnerable. Love anything, and your heart will certainly be wrung and possibly be broken. If you want to make sure of keeping it intact, you must give your heart to no one, not even to an animal. Wrap it carefully round with hobbies and little luxuries; avoid all entanglements; lock it up safe in the casket or coffin of your selfishness. But in that casket - safe, dark, motionless, airless- it will change. It will not be broken; it will become unbreakable, impenetrable. irredeemable. The alternative to tragedy, or at least to the risk of tragedy, is damnation. The only place outside Heaven where you can be perfectly safe from all the dangers and perturbations of love is Hell.'
Yes! I thought of that quote after I made the video - so powerful! Thanks for sharing
If you like this line, you should read the short story by Tolkien's friend and fellow Inkling, "Night Operation" by Owen Barfield. This line encapsulates the message of that story.
Thank you!!
This is why rereading great books is such a powerful experience. There are always new epiphanies to be had! Also THANK YOU for making this video short and to-the-point.
You're so welcome!
That whole section of leaving Lothlorien is really a captivating reread. You pulled a great quote out of it to analyze.
Currently rereading the books too. Last year entered a relationship and because I'm not a teenager anymore, health and mortality have been on my mind lately and this passage fits into that well. Those kind of things make me as distraught as Gimli to thing about.
Gimli's friendship with Galadriel is definitely one of the best-crafted relationships in the entire trilogy. It informs and influences his character in subtle ways.
The beauty of Tolkien is that with every rereading I discover passages anew as if I had never read them or see them in new light.
The dangers of light & joy -- the very precious, gentle, bright, beloved things that must be cared for, must be defended, that we must die for... that we must kill for...? These are the creeping tendrils that tempt everyone that starts to lust for the Ring. There is nothing more terrifying than a duty you cannot fulfill, or a ward whom you cannot protect without reaching into an abyss we civilised humans would all like to forget about.
Watching this and while watching, my 3 year old daughter just laid her head on my shoulder 😭
Thanks for sharing, really impactful.
Nice video. Thanks for sharing this.
Thanks for watching friend!
I’ve read and listened to these books many times, and I notice new things every time.
This is what we feel when we experience the unexpected loss of a loved one, as well.
This is why I wish Lord of the Rings was a long TV show instead of being compressed into three movies.
That way they would have the time and space they need to bring in these poetic conversations between other characters.
I read it every year and I always find something to stop me in my tracks
Best tale I have ever read
What a magnificent prose. From deep, from life that was lived, from truths found.
We need more souls like you on RUclips.
Thank you for this genuine and insightful discussion!
Glad you enjoyed it!
Great explication.
Thanks so much friend !!
As a husband of 28 years who is completely in love & committed to my wife with whom I am going through a very difficult season & separation from those words really hit home. While I'll fight with every ounce of my being, & the strength God gives me (as my strength isn't enough) to be with my wife again as she has brought such love & beauty into my life (including nine kids). As painful as it's been to be separated from that, & to potentially never experience that again I'd still rather have experienced it knowing how incredibly painful & dark her absence would be then to never have seen that light & joy in its full splendor.
Wow, thank you so much for sharing this vulnerable part of your life! You have the right perspective friend - ah the danger of light and joy but ah the beauty of real love!
Poignant piece. My hats off, and you have my subscription...first viewing.
I think something that brings comfort on this is the fact that Gimli saw once more the beauty of Lothlorien, maybe something even more beatuifull, as he travelled into the Undying Lands with Legolas. And that is the joy in the underlying message of LOTR, and in fact, as Tolkien would say, of the Greater Story (our story): in the end, even when darkness seems to have won, when it seems to have the final say, Beauty and Goodness prevail.
"For like a shaft, clear and cold, the thought pierced him that in the end the Shadow was only a small and passing thing: there was light and high beauty for ever beyond its reach." Return of the King
Which is why the best heroes of our stories are those who touched heaven but came back to help others, ye
Excellent video! Thank you for sharing
Glad you enjoyed it!
I love this commentary. I always thought of "the danger of light and joy" as what cripples the darkness. Being in light and joy, experiencing it, that gives us something to fight for and in order to fight for it, we must continue cultivate it. The risk of rejection, or in this case of the Dark Lord destroying everything, is why continuing to create it is so critical. Gimly, in my view, is used to being a warrior and in this moment is one step away from realising that he can, and should, dance at the revolution. He can be the light and spread joy. (And frankly, that is part of his character's role in the entire series, he's got my favourite comic relief moments.)