I personally think that they initially intended to let Jon Snow claim the iron throne in the end, but after so many fans spoiled the secret of Jon's ancestry correctly for years in social media, the writers arbitrarily invented another plot twist - just to deny fans around the world their satisfaction
George rr martin's intention was to have bran as the king in the end, the thing is that the development of bran and him becoming king was the disappointment in the series, obviously g rr martin will do it differently, but d & d didn't care anymore, they just wanted to end the show
@@brandonbjvegatoledo7741 in the show, Bran did not end up as king; the three-eyed Raven did. He literally told anyone that would listen that he’s no longer Bran Stark, but rather the three-eyed Raven now. He said he can’t be lord of ANYTHING because he’s the three-eyed Raven. He can’t lord of anything…so they crowned him lord of EVERYTHING?! What?!
They have pretty much said outright that this is the reason that they wrote Arya killing the Night King. Because Jon was the obvious choice and therefore "it just didn't feel right." Because they forgot that shocking twists have to be earned and you can't just do the opposite of what the audience expects (and what you have foreshadowed for 7 seasons) for no reason.
@@orphanedhanyouShe becomes a faceless assassin to learn that regardless of the name she goes by, she's still Arya Stark of Winterfell. Sometimes the obvious answer is the right one
Yes when I heard this question the first time on the show, the first quote that came to my head was from SpongeBob (what can I say I love all kinds of tv) SpongeBob: & what could be better than serving up smiles? Squidward: being DEAD or anything else 🤣🤣 That’s my reaction to bran being king 😂👎
That people don't think Bran has a great story arc or didn't catch that his wolf is named SUMMER, hence why he will be the Stark to reach a new long summer (not just spring) and bring the magic of the children and raven and weirwoods back to Westeros, are idiots.
@@orphanedhanyou he's that kid whom contributes nothing to the group project and still gets an A. And making a detached cripple King is incredibly stupid as he cannot produce an heir which shall almost certainly lead to civil war. Then he and that b Sansa throw Jon under a bus to usurp him, the only one who actually did anything.
Tbf, without Bran, Sam wouldn't know about Jon. Sam's knowledge of the annulment and marriage coupled with Bran's knowledge just confirms Jon isn't a bastard. Sam only learned about the marriage from the book. Nothing more. The season is still shit though.
Sam only knew about the marriage between Rhaegar and Laenna, not about Jon was his son. Bran knew that Jon was their son so together they discovered Jon was a rightfull Targaryen.
He didn't even read it in the book. He was working copying some manuscripts and Gilly sat nearby reading some random stuff and then she asked what is annulment of marriage and read that Rhaegar had an annulment and remarried someone. Sam was annoyed that Gilly prevented him from working and didn't even pay attention. And then in Winterfell he suddenly said to Bran that Jon is Rhaegar's and Lyanna's legal son.
@@limppickle4306that's even dumber, though. You can't annul a marriage that has already been consummated, and given that Rhaegar and Elia already had two children it's hard to argue that their marriage wasn't consummated, unless the argument is then that Elia had affairs and thus two bastards. It doesn't even make sense, as Rhaegar wanted another child because of the prophecy of the three heads of the dragon. There's literally no reason to end his marriage with Elia, thus losing Dorne forever (regardless of their already existing animosity), as there's nothing in the prophecy that requires the children be legitimate. Really it's just more proof that D&D know nearly nothing about character motivation. Ned Stark kept his promise to his sister out of his sense of duty and honor? No! He did it because of LOVE. Robb married Jeyne Westerling out of his sense of duty and honor after taking her virginity? No! He married Talisa because of LOVE! Jaime abandoned his sister in her time of greatest need because he finally chose to act with honor and stop being a villain? No! He ran back to her and basically killed himself with her because of LOVE!
The sad part is that this is only one of several major story arcs they completely messed up: 1. The White Walkers: The show's very first scene back in S1 opens with the reveal of the White Walkers. Throughout the seasons they are gathering more and more strength, establishing that they are the most important threat to the world, only to then be defeated in the first major battle they fight. 2. The Prince that was Promised: The show constantly mentions this prophecy, implying that the prophecy refers either to Jon or Daenerys (depending on interpretation). But then, Arya ends the White Walkers by killing the Night King, effectively ruining this story arc, alongside her own. 3. Arya's Story: Arya has been hyped up throughout the show as the one who will kill Cersei, but then the writers abruptly had her kill the Night King, simultaneously ruining 2 great story arcs. 4. Jamie: His entire redemption arc is ruined, when he leaves Brienne and returns to Cersei. 5. Tyrion, Varys and Littlefinger: These 3 masters of the Game of Thrones suddenly appear to be outsmarted by absolutely everybody. 6.Daenerys' Arc: Daenerys had been portrayed throughout the show as a good and benevolent leader, not following in the footsteps of her father, only to have her turn mad and genocidal in the time-span of just 2 episodes. 7. Bran becoming King: The "Three-eyed Raven", who supposedly has no want for power and can't be lord of Winterfell, but doesn't mind becoming king. And the list goes on... Please, just make it make sense!
You said it! I have argued these exact same points. The ruination of Jamie's redemption arc is one of my biggest pet peeves of season 8 because it was one of the most perfect redemption arcs in the show.
If i remember correctly in the books the fortune foretold cersi dying by the hands of her brother which she thought meant tyrion but I thought it would have been great for Jaime to actually be the one to kill her
1) The White Walkers are NOT the most important thing in the show. They are a red herring. The true point and message of the show is that true evil is not some 'external threat' (as symbolized by the White Walkers), but the violent impulses we have to fight against in ourselves (as symbolized by Dany). In GOT, the 'scouring of the Shire' is more important than the 'defeat of Sauron.' 2) But it DOES refer to Jon... he IS the Prince that is Promised. The only difference is that the darkness he was resurrected to defeat was NOT the NK, but DANY! SHE is the ultimate evil, not the NK, the one Azor Ahai must defeat or the world fails with him. 3) Cersei is NOT a villain, but a tragic woman who acted like a b*tch her whole life thinking it would protect her until the walls came down upon her. Arya's goal was not to extract revenge but to save her soul in RENOUNCING her need for revenge. 4) Jaime's redemption arc was never ruined. He goes to KL to protect the person he loves after realizing with the help of Sansa's taunts that she is in mortal danger. Brienne taught him how to love and how to value duty and sacrifice. When Jaime knighted Brienne, it was HE who became a knight and not Brienne who was always a knight, this was just making it official. When Jaime went to Cersei for the last time, he gave her the thing she always lacked in her life: love. It was the first time Jaime looked at Cersei with true love as opposed to selfish lust and upon breaking down and asking him if he was hurt it was the first time Cersei expressed concern for anyone other than herself and her children. Cersei dies crying the bitter tears of regret knowing that there was love for her in this world and that it all could have gone much different. 5) The trio were never 'masters' of anything. How smart of Tyrion was it to casually threaten and hit the future king, or for LF to warn Ned 'not to trust him.' Even Varys was always quite open with what he was doing, thinking his services would always be useful enough to keep him safe in perpetuity. 6) Dany is anything but a 'good and benevolent' leader, but a selfish tyrant waving all sorts of red flags those with rose-colored glasses refused to see. Just one blatant example of this includes pushing an innocent man to be burned alive and eaten by her dragons while sadistically quipping 'Maybe you're all innocent, maybe not. I'll let my dragons decide.' This is the kind of sh*t villains say and do. 7) What's the problem with Bran becoming king? You hate someone smart and competent being in charge because you can't identify with him? It's the entire point of the show. You want someone like that in power rather than the long list of pretentious blowhards itching for the throne. The 'Game of Thrones' was always a show title steeped in irony.
@@SerbAtheist Besides point 3, I have the same perception as you after rewatching GOT and being more mature to deal with final seasons. Although character development was trashy anyways. Cersei IS a villain and Arya wants revenge period.
@@rebeccalasky6109man if that is true OMG the missed opportunity to cross that with Ayra’s story. Have Jaime intersect Ayra in the soon to collapse Red Keep. Ayra having pushed aside the Hound’s warning to essentially “go live and don’t live a life consumed with revenge no matter how just it may be”. Once Jaime by sheer dumb luck of the chaotic surroundings he gets Ayra in a compromised position Jaime confesses family love/loyalty/protection/vengeance at the expense of honor-justice at every turn is a dark path that he regrets going down and he is going to end that path now as he should done when he got caught in that tower by Bran at Winterfell. Jaime relinquishes his upper hand and Ary has a chance to kill him, but doesn’t. The combination of those two warnings.
they were really proud to reveal this, after all it was the reason grrm allowed them to film GOT in the first place, it's a shame they didn't know how to do anything with it.
Until we see something written in the books or confirmed by Martin I'm still convinced Jon's parents are Ned and Ashara Dayne. Let's not forget that he's didn't say that they were correct, and that he was played a larger part in consulting and writing for the series for the first few seasons (and then when they were given free rein the show became trash).
@@juanma26m he clearly planted crumbs for the reader to follow, but that doesn't mean that the conclusion is correct. He could have been looking for someone who read enough into the series that they would have seen what he had hidden, but not cared that they were ultimately wrong. Let's also not forget that he didn't give the okay until he was in the middle of struggling with ADwD, which was delayed about five years. It's a more more obvious now, given that it's been thirteen years and we still haven't gotten Winds of Winter, but he clearly enjoys writing for TV and editing other people's work more than writing his own novels. It seems pretty clear that he wanted a break from writing; what better excuse than being heavily involved in a show based on your works?
In 2019, my bucket list was to see the end of the Skywalker Saga, Game of Thrones, and the Infinity War Saga, with the hope that at least 1 of them was going to be a satisfying end. I'm really thankful with out Endgame turn out. lol.
For me the Skywalker saga ended with the Return of the Jedi, Winds of Winter is still yet to come and Endgame ending was an almost perfect ending for the Infinity saga
I thought Endgame sucked too lol. I don't understand why they had to completely invalidate everything that happened in Infinity War and just resurrect everyone, I thought it was very lazy writing with no real consequences to the protagonists failing
@@sanfanderWhat do you mean? They killed of Iron Man, Captain America (well he's alive but not really), Gamora and Natasha. Sure they have alternate Gamora but "our" Gamora died and remains dead
Another huge plot point that was dropped was the whole story of the Night King. We saw his origin. But what was his goal, his mission? Why did he make those patterns with the corpses? None of those answered. I Really feel that HBO should have intervened and stopped D& D from going in this direction. The shitty thing is, not only did D&D screw up the ending, they killed the rewatchability of the whole show. When I watch it now it infuriates me seeing how glorious the show was in it's earlier seasons with the poltics, the doalogues, the acting, and how D&D just ruined it coz of greed and their ego. If they wanted to chase the Star wars money. Then they should have just let other writers finish the story.
Bran talks about the Night King's motivations once, but it's just some vague BS about "he wants to kill me because I'm the memory of the world." Which is basically gibberish and makes no sense, because they never really give a reason for why the Night King would even care about that.
@@kimmalahits pretty obvious? The Children made him to stop Men. So he must. Until they are all gone. Yes even the memory of them. No chance they can return. That's the goal.
If it relieves you at all, perhaps the king of the night would be Jon Snow. In the books there is no Night King and his death/murder on the wall could be what breaks the Stark blood magic that built the wall. imagine how epic a battle between daenerys and jon in the sky! or jon wanting to kill his little brother and arya wanting to save her favorite brother. it would make much more sense for the night king to ride a dragon, the blood treason that began with the emperor and empress in yi ti, the blood spilled between the children of the forest and the revenge against the starks who took their lands, killed their men, they destroyed their gods and stole their daughters.
The main reason with mystery box writing is that once the box is opened and the secret is revealed you've likely both underwhelmed your audience and also killed any desire to rewatch the series. It's a big reason why I'm slightly regretful that I didn't watch Lost when it aired and will likely never watch it.
And the fact that he was imprisoned and then exiled, and when they discussed who should be the new king at the council, they didnt even consider jon snow
They plot twisted themselves to death. Trying to make Arya's journey have meaning. But she wasn't the main character all these deaths were suffered for.
So much was wasted but Jon was one of the worst for sure. They tied him so heavily to the Long Night to the point he gets resurrected and for what? They made his parentage such a major plot point and threw it away. Bran as well tbh, both of them had so much emphasis and were tied so heavily to the White Walker plot and then did nothing basically. I may never recover from the anti-climax of GoT, it's still unbelievable how badly they botched it.
He got resurrected to save the world by killing Dany. And his parentage was 'thrown away' because it's not heritage that makes a man, but his character. And Bran 'did nothing' because ruling is not some prize you get, even less 'deserve,' for doing something, but a duty and responsibility.
@@SerbAtheist That was not satisfying at all considering so many characters were in a position to be able to do that, and considering where and how his resurrection happened. They say that but that parentage was made to matter a lot, if it wasn't supposed to matter then he shouldn't have been resurrected, bloodline shouldn't have directly given magic abilities like riding dragons, warging, using royal blood to make shadow babies etc. And Bran, they again, went through all this magical B.S. only for it not to really have any major effect and he was not actually otherwise qualified over the others to rule. That would make sense if they showed him to be this exceptional leader but they didn't, he was basically a weird robot that was needlessly cryptic by the end.
They also ruined Tyrion’s Character arc by omitting Jaime’s confession from the books. Instead of being lovesick over a 304 who betrayed him, Tyrion would realize there was one woman out there who did love him and his Father/Brother took that away from him; and spiraling him down his path. This confession broke him and gave him hope at the same time. He was crazy enough to risk it all by killing his father and trying to learn Tysha’s whereabouts. Also in the books it was implied that Lyanna Stark may have been manipulated by Rhaegar rather than being in love or kidnapped. Perhaps in the show it would have been revealed piece by piece: surface level lie told first of the kidnapping, then “finding out the truth” in that Lyanna loved Rhaegar and wasn’t kidnapped, then finally the real Truth in that she did love Rhaegar but she was also manipulated by him due to his obsession with Prophecy (and may have even regretted starting the Rebellion). But like everything else, that was abandoned.
Let's be honest, Jon Snow could've been Luke Skywalker (original trilogy) levels of popularity if they would've followed through instead of fumbling their biggest plot twist.
This a good video man. That scene from S6E10 - I got the same chills. I still do when I watch it. I think it's important for people to remember that - while S5 onwards diverged from the books in many ways, and had a lot of sub-par stuff, and they did really drop the ball in the last 2 seasons - the later seasons still had a lot of beautifully-made, beautifully-performed, beautifully-written parts in there too. On a related note - Robert Aramayo gets a lot of schtick for his funny-looking face and his role in Rings Of Power, but, I think he's awesome in that scene. I really buy his chemistry with Aisling Franciosi - they genuinely seem like they've known each other their whole lives - and his expression after "If Robert finds out, he'll kill him" perfectly conveys the near mind-numbing jumble of thoughts and feelings in Ned's head and heart in that moment.
If Sansa betrayed Jon's trust like that in the books, she's getting overthrown by the northerners because she broke an oath in front of the heart tree. Not even counting that Jon would be having a caniption over this with how much he believes in oaths and honoring them, dudes gonna be like Gabi in AoT S4.😂
The north picked Jon not Sansa, how would they react when Sansa tells them a foreign council voted to exile him? Would they care? I think they would care that Sansa would listen to "southerners"
Jon & Sansa marry in the books. Dany, Tyrion & JOn ... are the three Heads of the Dragon . D&D knew this from Season 1 but George has full TV rights and doesn't want his books spoiled.
7:07 Bran: "He is the heir of the Iron Throne" (a few episodes later when prisoner Tyrion suggests that Bran should be the next king of Westeros) also Bran: "Why do you think I came all this way?"
Bran isn't the heir. Jon is the heir. But breaking the wheel means no more monarchy by blood - either lineage or conquering. Council election will become votes by the people. That will actually change the country. Plus anyone that wanted to force Jon on the throne vs find peace & freedom beyond the wall (or Frodo to stay in the Shire vs go West) is evil.
The only thing that bothered me was Jon killing Dany. With all the incest rampant what’s the matter with aunt and nephew who never knew each other before.
I mean he was never safe. She worked her entire life to rule, only to find out that she has a male counterpart with a stronger claim. And she'd just burned down kings landing, she had to die. She had become too obsessed with 'breaking the wheel'. Jon had no choice, (Rewatch the conversation between Jon and tyrion in the cell)
@@EddieR322 Why would ending feudalism be so bad? The one who was never safe was Dany, because those ambitious people would try to place a more manipulable king to gain more power, that's exactly what happened with Varys. Jon didn't have an army to maintain KL so for him to claim the throne just because he has the supposed name would only work with poison and betrayal (the Dothraki live to avenge their khal and the show forgot that). Even if the diary proved that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married, it doesn't prove that it’s more complicated than that for a prince. There’s still no evidence that Jon is their child. Honestly, it would have been easier if Jon had accepted Daenerys’s proposal to rule together; it would have been peaceful. Revealing himself as a Targaryen would honestly turn everyone against him. Dorne would demand his head, Robert’s rebellion to rescue Lyanna involved the North, the Riverlands, and the Stormlands, so the families that lost loved ones in that war would resent him. I find it extremely amusing that the North would kneel to Jon (we only kneel to a Stark, but Jon is a Targaryen; if he declared himself a Targaryen, he would lose the North’s support). Honestly, it was a mistake to reveal the truth about him; it ruined the character development we followed since the first season. Did Daenerys need to die? Why burn King’s Landing? Aegon the Conqueror burned Harrenhal and Dorne when they refused to kneel. Cersei refused when she beheaded Missandei out of spite; why should Daenerys believe Tyrion and Cersei when they have lied multiple times? I don’t care about King’s Landing; I was already angry with Daenerys for her complacency in the war. Another who killed more than Daenerys, Tywin Lannister, ordered the devastation of the Riverlands. Imagine a state being ravaged. He also destroyed House Reyne and King’s Landing during Robert’s rebellion. Both Tywin and Aegon were admired and respected in Westeros. Jon wouldn’t have done anything for King’s Landing; he wouldn’t even have gone there and cared little about the destruction Cersei caused. He never went there to stop her. Tyrion, another hypocrite who was planning to save Cersei and extend the war for another 10 years, worked for other cruel kings and never cared. Remember in Essos when he gave the masters another 7 years to keep their slaves? Or Joffrey, the baby killer? I even thought they would set King’s Landing on fire with the green fire left by Aerys because it’s very out of character for Daenerys to actually destroy a city. But I understand why she did it and I don’t understand why the audience says these things; it’s as if they were watching a Disney/Marvel movie and didn’t know the Game of Thrones universe.
Nah, my heart broke when she didn’t burn it all down a build something new. It just made more sense to me that she burned it all up and sat on an ashen thrown
Aryas arc was to take revenge on the people on her list and realise that shes still a stark. Thats all. Some characters are just meant to be side characters
Well maybe they shouldn't have a side character end the night king? That was just crap tbh. She ran past hundreds of ww and they barely looked sideways. Jon should have been the one to end him, yes its predictable, doesn't mean it's a bad idea
So Jon would kill Ramsey, Night King, AND Dany? That's too much. Jon is the one responsible for stopping ice AND fire and he is ice and fire? But he is more Frodo than Aragorn. He deserves freedom and peace beyond the wall just like Frodo left for the West. Why does Arya get faceless assassin training? To kill Cersei? Her list? She doesn't need that level of training for those regular humans?
@@orphanedhanyou Jon didn't kill Ramsey though he left that for Sansa. He killed Dany but was it necessary? I think it would've been much more meaningful if he killed the Night King. Dany could've died in a different way.
The thing, Jon's parentage didn't mean that he HAD to become king at the end. Secret Prince claiming his birthright does sound a little cliché and that's not what Martin is about. BUT you cannot deconstruct the trope without actually doing it first. The show used that reveal only to justify driving a wedge between Jon and Dany, which made NO SENSE. In the world of Westeros, this level of familial relation would not raise an eyebrow. I mean, even in our real world, uncle-niece and first cousins were a thing (just look at the Habsburgs). There are examples in House Stark itself, too. So, I find it hard to believe that Jon would find it so fundamentally repulsive. So, in the end, they had no idea what to do with Jon and his bombshell.
We got a much more watered down version compared to the books. The characters in the books were completely different. Jon was a completely different person. I'm sure D and D read the books, but they didn't love them. They were looking to make some money.
They think we’re watching it because of their cinematic skills that’s where they went wrong, they let their ego take over, we loved the show because it was the book we loved, the story we loved, in cinematic format. I’m still pissed about the ending, can’t even rewatch it.
I thought that Jon was Azhor hai and Danny was Nissa Nissa. Jon would have to forge the valerian steel sword in Dany's heart of fire (Just like the legend) to make the flaming sword. Maybe Danny is pregnant to Jon, making it even more heartbreaking.
Well he IS! Jon, Azor Ahai, had to kill the person he loves, Dany, to save the world from terrible evil, also Dany. The big twist was that the two were one and the same.
I’ve always attributed that famous “tell me who is jon’s mother?” conversation to a couple young producers that have access to the most prominent internet fan theory by far and presented it to this old man who uses a typewriter as their own deductions from being such big fans themselves. R+L=J is the first thing you’ll come across if you get into asoiaf theories, even 20 years ago. Boom, rights secured, old man is dazzled.
Without Jon uniting everyone to fight the white Walkers they would have all been consumed by the long night. Without him distracting the white walker dragon it would have eaten Arya like a single little tatter tot separated from the pack. I get a lot of fans were disappointed by the ending, but hating on something just to hate is really strange, just enjoy it for what it is! Just my opinion
The red flags were everywhere... 1. Why is Jon suddenly not a bastard? Rhaegar was already married and no lords in the realm and especially none of the Kings made this new marriage legal. Even if a septon blessed it, no one would ever think it's valid. Jon having a claim on the throne as Aegon was just D&D cutting Young Griff/Aegon VI from the books and giving that plot line to Jon instead to make him seem cooler. Except, D&D had no plans for Jon. Where as Aegon in the books is primed to take King's Landing and will likely be King in Winds of Winter, Jon literally does nothing. 2. "Robert's Rebellion was built on a lie" No, the fuck, it wasn't. Aerys really did kill Brandon and Rickard. Aerys was the mad king, Aerys did tell Jon Arryn to send Robert and Ned's heads to him. 4 Lords Paramounts were all allied while Robert was 5th in line to the throne. Rhaegar disappearing with Lyanna simply is what made Brandon ride to the Red Keep. This line has ruined all discourse about the Rebellion because D&D don't understand why it happened so now the casual fan is fully convinced Rhaegar alone started the war and not you know, his dad who started the entire war. 3. "His name is Aegon Targaryen..." No, the fuck it ain't. Why would Rhaegar name another son Aegon. Oberyn talks about baby Aegon like all throughout season 4. Why would Lyanna name her kid after her dead lover's dead baby son? 4. Rhaegar's appearance. More of a nitpick here, but Rhaegar by all lore is prettier than literally everyone with long silver hair, purple eyes, and wears really nice clothes since he is the prince. No offense to the actor. He is a handsome guy, but they gave him no real makeup to make him more feminine looking, ratty clothes that make him look poor, and they reused Viserys' wig from season 1. Why does he look like that?
I kind of always have thought since I figured out R+L=J that Jon would pull a William the Conqueror/The Bastard and take back the Throne as a bastard Targaryen, to kind of go against those themes that not all bastards are bad or worthless lile other characters portray them as. And Robert's Rebellion was kind of built on a lie, Rhaegar was smart enough to be organizing a coup against his dad, you don't think he left info to the right people or to people he expected to tell the right people what his and Lyanna's plans were? This is a little fan theory but still, if someone didn't lie to Brandon or intentionally didn't tell him then that means the foundations of the Rebellion were a lie, especially since Robert ran around spouting off he's fighting this war for his kidnapped betrothed AND to take revenge for his future inlaws. And the rest of your statements are 100% accurate.😂
All good points, though just as a minor thing, I don't think they ever actually mention the name of Rhaegar's first son (or daughter for that matter) a single time in the show. It's always just really vague "his children," "her children," and so on. So if you weren't a book reader, you probably wouldn't realize how stupid it was for Lyanna to name her baby Aegon. Also it gets kind of funny once you watch House of the Dragon and see they have built pretty much the entire show on the premise of "these people use the name Aegon too damn much!"
@GreyMagee74 Except if Jon takes any throne, he would prove every stereotype about bastards right. If he is crowned King in the North, then he usurps his siblings. If he takes the Iron Throne, he usurps Dany, Aegon, Tommen, Myrcella, Stannis, and Shireen. Ig in the show, it dropped all the subtle parts of the story and characters tho. They would've treated Jon usurping others like Cat feared as some noble thing cause Jon is cool.
@@justdirt to be fair in most instances of monarchies the bastard of the crown prince/princess would be able to be legitimized and take the throne instead of an Uncle/Aunt or close/distant cousins, but in ASoIaF GRRM would have to introduce a modern Great Council (which we got 2 in the show at least) for them to go that route since there is only minor precedents like this with lords and its a last ditch effort for those houses too. Shit look at House Hornwood and Darry they only have young bastards left for their houses at this point so they most likely will. Back to Jon's case, GRRM could go that route which is very unlikely or they could go the route of Dany and Jon unifying their claim through Matrilineal marriage (if Jon does wind up just being a bastard) like they dangled in front of us for 2 seasons and then did an about-face with that storyline, this is how i think the Throne plot line will end but it wont be a sweet ending where they both sit the throne together like im portraying it to be because... its ASoIaF and you only get tragedy or bittersweet ending for people in this universe.
Jon Snow was my favorite character I will never going to forgive how they ruined the character and how he didn't archive his destiny as the prince who was Promised . Is like Aragon unite all realms of man against Sauron doesn't become king. And I know the reason of why GGR Martin hadn't finished the book is because he fears that ending he want would ruined the saga as the Season 8 ruined all the series
You know you have said everything in this video I have said since GOT ended!!! What good was it to find out Jon was a Targaryen if nothing ever became of it???
Well there may be a sequel in the future called Snow. If that happens I imagine he will come to claim what's his after he realizes Bran is the Night King
That was a horrible analogy. It would be better to say: Just because I spent two hours in a kitchen, doesn't mean I'm a cook. Just because I learned to play a song on the flute, doesn't mean I'm a musician. Just because I play basketball with my friend, doesn't mean I'm an athlete. ...
A trend in petty egotistical, or pathetic insecure writers, when they think the audience has figured out the twist earlier than they wanted they then change it. Even though everything was building up to the original twist, they suddenly change it. Its terrible, and upsets everyone.
@@ronaldjr3092 Huh. Now I know that ROP definitely did quite a few of the actors dirty- Robert Aramayo looked way better as Ned Stark than as Lord Elrond. It must be the hair (or lack of hair, rather).
In the books the hints are there. He is more than likely going to be the King. I think he will take Winterfell in the books but there will be a challenge, a grave challenge he will overcome. And then on to be the King in Dream of Spring. Jon is Rhaegar’s son, but his name is not Aegon, possibly Aemon
I should have been Jon because he is Stark as well and the Night King(s) is a Stark's long time nemesis and horror. He could have avenge the straks and fulfilled the prophecy
U don get it, why do u think Arya was said to look like Lyanna? Arya is the daughter of Lyanna and Rhaegar and her true name is Visenya, is so obvious, thats why she defeated the night king
it doesn't make sense for jon's real name being "aegon" because rhaegar's plan was to have 3 kids, the 3 heads of the dragon. why wd he name 2 of them the same? also idk how old liana is in the show but even if she really loved rhaegar in the books too, he still did raped her bc she was 15 and he a old ass man
I'm not gonna be here defending real life SR but this is a fantasy show based on our medieval times where girls were forced to marry at 12 to 40 years olds back then. Lyanna being 16 or so is above the age of when she should have been married and pumping out her 2nd kid by that point in a medieval setting. Once again, I am not endorcing this. I'm just stating the fact that your logic doesn't correlate with the rules and morality of this universe or the time period of our past, no matter how disgusting it is.
You realize how many kids died in medieval times? They would reuse the same name over and over because multiple prior kids died in the womb or through toddler age. Aegon wanted 3 children & thought that was part of his mission. But he was wrong. He (fire) & Lyanna (ice) were to bring forth Azor Ahai (or perhaps both Rhaegar & are Azor Ahai & Nissa Nissa and Non is Lightbringer in the flesh? Or Jon is still Azor & Dany Nussa Nissa?). Lyanna may not have even known what Rhaegar might name Jon, he may not have wanted it to be a variation of Visenya. She may not have known any of his dreams or visions for their child. So what does she do as she is dying? Name him after the Targaryen everyone knows. Plus it's simply easier for the show when Rhaegars first set of childrens names aren't mentioned & we don't even see the vision of him talking about the 3 heads Dany has. Jon being "another Aegon" harkens back to book Dany & her frustrations with male heirs & male Targaryens.
Nobles would name children after dead relatives all the time. Rhaegar didn’t name Jon, if anything he probably assumed Jon would’ve been a girl to complete the three heads for Aegon. So it’s possible Lyanna named him in honor of his dead brother. Of Rheagar actually told her about the prophecies then it’s not that unreasonable. Plus it’s not like Jon’s gonna change his name even if he did somehow embrace his Targ heritage.
the only reason a targaryen need to be on the iron throne was so that he could unite the seven kingdoms and fight the white walkers with dragons when the long night comes... and jon did exactly that! it was never about "the prince who was promised vs the night king" it was about the prince who was promised vs the long night!
I still think Martin is trolling everyone with the show. I still don't believe that Rhyegar is Jon Snow's father. I think the R in R+L=J is Robert. Besides, if Rhygar carved this out then wouldn't it say R+L=A? The whole reason Syrcie pushed Joffrey to execute Ned was because he knew about Joffrey' parentage. How did he figure this out? How did he know and how could he have proven this? What prevented him from screaming out the truth about the young blonde haired king? It is the same thing that would exspose Jon's true parentage. The same that would prove Joffrey is not Robert's is the same thing that would prove Jon is not Rhygar's son. It is also hinted with Jon's first name.
The reason I hate what they did with Jon Snow is the same reason I love what they did with Daenerys. If you just follow the logic of the show and it's shakespearian vibe you know that Jon Snow killing the Night King and being on the throne is announced since the beggining, same goes for Daenerys going mad. It's ok not to surprise the spectators but it's not to betray your story.
The next time I see you we'll talk about your mother The next time he sees his father Is in the crypt 7 years later At his fathers statue Sam tells Jon about his lineage It's a pretty beautiful pay off I don't really agree w this That if they followed exactly what's supposed to be It goes against everything that makes got thrones great The show starts failing exactly when characters get plot armor and do what they're supposed to Without thought and it's bad bc it doesn't feel like politics in our world And esp how anyone could die Not living up to your potential is the most true part of the story This is what makes the Witcher interesting as well Being monster slayer is is window dressin, it's the true to life story telling The biggest mistake was not taking time to build this conclusions But they're definitely close to what George wanted Of course it's also a subversion for dany to good and not become the mad queen So yea
It's obvious from chapter two in Book 1. Come on, Ned wouldn't be unfaithful to his wife, he won't talk about Jon's mother, he made an undisclosed promise to his dying sister, etc. Any reader with a bit of reading experience could guess it.
The ned stark poster from the first season shows you who will win the iorn throne! But, in the end regardless of jon being a tarrgaryen or not he should never have been charged with daenerys death! He would still be king by rights of conquest!
Ned as hand, as someone appointed like his son Bran as the Three Eyed Raven, someone with no ties to the throne by blood (lineage or conquering). When half the lords were for Dany in order to move forward Jon could not take the throne without more war. Any "fan" that wants Jon to be forced to stay and rule vs have freedom and peace beyond the wall is evil.
Jon being ice and fire I do believe was supposed to be important for him to be the one to push back ice and fire, like end the war for the dawn azor ahai/nissa Nissa style to create the flaming sword to defeat the night king. I believe d and d saw that fans could predict it and changed it. It's why we got the trash we got
They didn't change it though? Jon is the one responsible for stopping ice AND fire and he is ice and fire? But he is more Frodo than Aragorn. He deserves freedom and peace beyond the wall just like Frodo left for the West.
Well actually Jon is still a bastard. Raegar was already married, and there's no divorce in Westeros. He needed to kill Ellia Martell in order for his marriage to Lyana to be legitimate, and she dies after Jon is born. He's not Jon Snow, he's Jon Sand.
If George had half the sense the lord of light gave a goat, he subvert all our expectations and just finish the f✓¢k!ng thing with a happy ending. Jon claims a dragon. Proving his targ lineage. Then Jon and Dany conquer and rule with people like bran as master as whispers davos as master of ships etc. no one is expecting THAT!!!
Did GoT ruin it or was that GRRM's idea that it meant nothing? Hmm I'd be money it was GRRM's. He likes to do the opposite of what's expected. It literally only mattered to send a certain other Targ over the edge.
Book show fAegon or not Calling Jon Argon was idiotic of the highest degree. His murdered older brothers name Is Ageon a kid that was ver much alive when Rheagar or lyanna? named Jon
1. Bran became a demigod in the cave. He was the repository of the whole of history. 2. The conclave elected Bran because the election itself broke the wheel, because the election of Bran was the 'Dream of Spring.' 3. Destroying a socio-political system does not mean that the destroyer is the best to create the replacement. I agree with the sentiment that Jon should have killed the Night King. Arya killing him made no sense within the narrative constructed in the show. What was the purpose of the prophecy if Arya kills the Night King?
Wait just a minute! RENLY WAS GAY?! but he was married to Margaery Tyrell!! Edit many people guess that R+L=J. But i doubt its true. I think he is Eddards son
The perfect plot twist? I think the secret prince plot twist is pretty damn overdone and this one only had my eyes rolling into the back of my head. That said, if they were going to make a plot twist out of it then they should have at least used it for something cuz as stale as it was there was still wasted potential.
The twist is the books people it is Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne are the parents of Jon Snow. He is the true King of North!!!!. Daynes are pre Dawn of the Empire of Dragons people.
Jon been called Eagon is stupid, since Rhaegar already had a son called Eagon and they are in the show to, killed by the mountain. D&D just forgot about that for sure
You didn't even spell it correctly though? What does that make you? You realize how many kids died in medieval times? They would reuse the same name over and over because multiple prior kids died in the womb or through toddler age. Aegon wanted 3 children & thought that was part of his mission. But he was wrong. He (fire) & Lyanna (ice) were to bring forth Azor Ahai (or perhaps both Rhaegar & are Azor Ahai & Nissa Nissa and Non is Lightbringer in the flesh? Or Jon is still Azor & Dany Nussa Nissa?). Lyanna may not have even known what Rhaegar might name Jon, he may not have wanted it to be a variation of Visenya. She may not have known any of his dreams or visions for their child. So what does she do as she is dying? Name him after the Targaryen everyone knows. Plus it's simply easier for the show when Rhaegars first set of childrens names aren't mentioned & we don't even see the vision of him talking about the 3 heads Dany has. Jon being "another Aegon" harkens back to book Dany & her frustrations with male heirs & male Targaryens.
Dumb and dumber guesting who Jon’s mum was isn’t that impressive, If you look on redit and places 100s of people for years and years had that idea way way before the show was a thing
Personally I think Jon and Danny should have had a baby with like year gap. That would let them kill Danny while setting her being mad by conquering all of Westeros then Jon could kill her and be all sad and go to the north. Also this lets a Targaryen to be raised with no context or affiliate from their families this lets Bran became the regents essentially solving most of the problems what gonna happen after his death as he can't have kids.
The biggest let down was the Night king and the prince who was promised. The night king should have won the battle of winter fell..after that there could have been a time jump where winter has really come to Westrose and Night king arrives in kingslanding
The Jon/Dany kid idea was my theory for that 2 year gap we had between the seasons. Both tragically die with their friends and trusted advisors there to raise their son or daughter with one or both of the dragons still alive to potentially continue a new Dynasty in the way Dany wanted (before she was revealed to be a hypocrite of course😂)
I personally think that they initially intended to let Jon Snow claim the iron throne in the end, but after so many fans spoiled the secret of Jon's ancestry correctly for years in social media, the writers arbitrarily invented another plot twist - just to deny fans around the world their satisfaction
You give D&D way too
Much credit. 😂
George rr martin's intention was to have bran as the king in the end, the thing is that the development of bran and him becoming king was the disappointment in the series, obviously g rr martin will do it differently, but d & d didn't care anymore, they just wanted to end the show
So …. They subverted expectations in the worst way possible? Clever guys (LMAO).
@@brandonbjvegatoledo7741 in the show, Bran did not end up as king; the three-eyed Raven did. He literally told anyone that would listen that he’s no longer Bran Stark, but rather the three-eyed Raven now. He said he can’t be lord of ANYTHING because he’s the three-eyed Raven. He can’t lord of anything…so they crowned him lord of EVERYTHING?! What?!
They have pretty much said outright that this is the reason that they wrote Arya killing the Night King. Because Jon was the obvious choice and therefore "it just didn't feel right." Because they forgot that shocking twists have to be earned and you can't just do the opposite of what the audience expects (and what you have foreshadowed for 7 seasons) for no reason.
Arya killing the night king is like han solo killing palpatine and darth vader.
Why else does the character learn to be a faceless assassin? To kill Cersei? She didn't need such specialized training to do that!
@@orphanedhanyouShe becomes a faceless assassin to learn that regardless of the name she goes by, she's still Arya Stark of Winterfell. Sometimes the obvious answer is the right one
@@facundomedina9762Finally someone that understands the show
I personally would’ve loved it if they would’ve killed Arya Stark, instead of her killing the Night King
@@treasurewinbang555 the show is just shit
Who has a better story than Bran the Broken?
Stannis: Any of you I should think, even the cook.
Hot Pie ?
Hot Pie for King !~!!
@@mightydigebuge well he can walk and has a skill so he's leagues ahead of bran.
Yes when I heard this question the first time on the show, the first quote that came to my head was from SpongeBob (what can I say I love all kinds of tv)
SpongeBob: & what could be better than serving up smiles?
Squidward: being DEAD or anything else 🤣🤣
That’s my reaction to bran being king 😂👎
That people don't think Bran has a great story arc or didn't catch that his wolf is named SUMMER, hence why he will be the Stark to reach a new long summer (not just spring) and bring the magic of the children and raven and weirwoods back to Westeros, are idiots.
@@orphanedhanyou he's that kid whom contributes nothing to the group project and still gets an A. And making a detached cripple King is incredibly stupid as he cannot produce an heir which shall almost certainly lead to civil war. Then he and that b Sansa throw Jon under a bus to usurp him, the only one who actually did anything.
also what's the point of time traveler Bran if Sam is gonna find out the same info about Jon ON A BOOK AT OLDTOWN
sam just had the superpower of being able to read
Tbf, without Bran, Sam wouldn't know about Jon. Sam's knowledge of the annulment and marriage coupled with Bran's knowledge just confirms Jon isn't a bastard. Sam only learned about the marriage from the book. Nothing more.
The season is still shit though.
Sam only knew about the marriage between Rhaegar and Laenna, not about Jon was his son. Bran knew that Jon was their son so together they discovered Jon was a rightfull Targaryen.
He didn't even read it in the book. He was working copying some manuscripts and Gilly sat nearby reading some random stuff and then she asked what is annulment of marriage and read that Rhaegar had an annulment and remarried someone. Sam was annoyed that Gilly prevented him from working and didn't even pay attention. And then in Winterfell he suddenly said to Bran that Jon is Rhaegar's and Lyanna's legal son.
@@limppickle4306that's even dumber, though. You can't annul a marriage that has already been consummated, and given that Rhaegar and Elia already had two children it's hard to argue that their marriage wasn't consummated, unless the argument is then that Elia had affairs and thus two bastards.
It doesn't even make sense, as Rhaegar wanted another child because of the prophecy of the three heads of the dragon. There's literally no reason to end his marriage with Elia, thus losing Dorne forever (regardless of their already existing animosity), as there's nothing in the prophecy that requires the children be legitimate.
Really it's just more proof that D&D know nearly nothing about character motivation. Ned Stark kept his promise to his sister out of his sense of duty and honor? No! He did it because of LOVE. Robb married Jeyne Westerling out of his sense of duty and honor after taking her virginity? No! He married Talisa because of LOVE! Jaime abandoned his sister in her time of greatest need because he finally chose to act with honor and stop being a villain? No! He ran back to her and basically killed himself with her because of LOVE!
The sad part is that this is only one of several major story arcs they completely messed up:
1. The White Walkers: The show's very first scene back in S1 opens with the reveal of the White Walkers. Throughout the seasons they are gathering more and more strength, establishing that they are the most important threat to the world, only to then be defeated in the first major battle they fight.
2. The Prince that was Promised: The show constantly mentions this prophecy, implying that the prophecy refers either to Jon or Daenerys (depending on interpretation). But then, Arya ends the White Walkers by killing the Night King, effectively ruining this story arc, alongside her own.
3. Arya's Story: Arya has been hyped up throughout the show as the one who will kill Cersei, but then the writers abruptly had her kill the Night King, simultaneously ruining 2 great story arcs.
4. Jamie: His entire redemption arc is ruined, when he leaves Brienne and returns to Cersei.
5. Tyrion, Varys and Littlefinger: These 3 masters of the Game of Thrones suddenly appear to be outsmarted by absolutely everybody.
6.Daenerys' Arc: Daenerys had been portrayed throughout the show as a good and benevolent leader, not following in the footsteps of her father, only to have her turn mad and genocidal in the time-span of just 2 episodes.
7. Bran becoming King: The "Three-eyed Raven", who supposedly has no want for power and can't be lord of Winterfell, but doesn't mind becoming king.
And the list goes on... Please, just make it make sense!
You said it! I have argued these exact same points. The ruination of Jamie's redemption arc is one of my biggest pet peeves of season 8 because it was one of the most perfect redemption arcs in the show.
If i remember correctly in the books the fortune foretold cersi dying by the hands of her brother which she thought meant tyrion but I thought it would have been great for Jaime to actually be the one to kill her
1) The White Walkers are NOT the most important thing in the show. They are a red herring. The true point and message of the show is that true evil is not some 'external threat' (as symbolized by the White Walkers), but the violent impulses we have to fight against in ourselves (as symbolized by Dany). In GOT, the 'scouring of the Shire' is more important than the 'defeat of Sauron.'
2) But it DOES refer to Jon... he IS the Prince that is Promised. The only difference is that the darkness he was resurrected to defeat was NOT the NK, but DANY! SHE is the ultimate evil, not the NK, the one Azor Ahai must defeat or the world fails with him.
3) Cersei is NOT a villain, but a tragic woman who acted like a b*tch her whole life thinking it would protect her until the walls came down upon her. Arya's goal was not to extract revenge but to save her soul in RENOUNCING her need for revenge.
4) Jaime's redemption arc was never ruined. He goes to KL to protect the person he loves after realizing with the help of Sansa's taunts that she is in mortal danger. Brienne taught him how to love and how to value duty and sacrifice. When Jaime knighted Brienne, it was HE who became a knight and not Brienne who was always a knight, this was just making it official. When Jaime went to Cersei for the last time, he gave her the thing she always lacked in her life: love. It was the first time Jaime looked at Cersei with true love as opposed to selfish lust and upon breaking down and asking him if he was hurt it was the first time Cersei expressed concern for anyone other than herself and her children. Cersei dies crying the bitter tears of regret knowing that there was love for her in this world and that it all could have gone much different.
5) The trio were never 'masters' of anything. How smart of Tyrion was it to casually threaten and hit the future king, or for LF to warn Ned 'not to trust him.' Even Varys was always quite open with what he was doing, thinking his services would always be useful enough to keep him safe in perpetuity.
6) Dany is anything but a 'good and benevolent' leader, but a selfish tyrant waving all sorts of red flags those with rose-colored glasses refused to see. Just one blatant example of this includes pushing an innocent man to be burned alive and eaten by her dragons while sadistically quipping 'Maybe you're all innocent, maybe not. I'll let my dragons decide.' This is the kind of sh*t villains say and do.
7) What's the problem with Bran becoming king? You hate someone smart and competent being in charge because you can't identify with him? It's the entire point of the show. You want someone like that in power rather than the long list of pretentious blowhards itching for the throne. The 'Game of Thrones' was always a show title steeped in irony.
@@SerbAtheist Besides point 3, I have the same perception as you after rewatching GOT and being more mature to deal with final seasons. Although character development was trashy anyways.
Cersei IS a villain and Arya wants revenge period.
@@rebeccalasky6109man if that is true OMG the missed opportunity to cross that with Ayra’s story. Have Jaime intersect Ayra in the soon to collapse Red Keep. Ayra having pushed aside the Hound’s warning to essentially “go live and don’t live a life consumed with revenge no matter how just it may be”. Once Jaime by sheer dumb luck of the chaotic surroundings he gets Ayra in a compromised position Jaime confesses family love/loyalty/protection/vengeance at the expense of honor-justice at every turn is a dark path that he regrets going down and he is going to end that path now as he should done when he got caught in that tower by Bran at Winterfell. Jaime relinquishes his upper hand and Ary has a chance to kill him, but doesn’t. The combination of those two warnings.
In retrospect the only way D&D knew who Jon's mother is is because they lurked reddit the night before
they were really proud to reveal this, after all it was the reason grrm allowed them to film GOT in the first place, it's a shame they didn't know how to do anything with it.
Until we see something written in the books or confirmed by Martin I'm still convinced Jon's parents are Ned and Ashara Dayne. Let's not forget that he's didn't say that they were correct, and that he was played a larger part in consulting and writing for the series for the first few seasons (and then when they were given free rein the show became trash).
@@wyssmaster yeah dude George turned down offers to adapt the books for years, only to accept after 2 randoms answered a question wrong.
@@juanma26m he clearly planted crumbs for the reader to follow, but that doesn't mean that the conclusion is correct. He could have been looking for someone who read enough into the series that they would have seen what he had hidden, but not cared that they were ultimately wrong.
Let's also not forget that he didn't give the okay until he was in the middle of struggling with ADwD, which was delayed about five years. It's a more more obvious now, given that it's been thirteen years and we still haven't gotten Winds of Winter, but he clearly enjoys writing for TV and editing other people's work more than writing his own novels. It seems pretty clear that he wanted a break from writing; what better excuse than being heavily involved in a show based on your works?
@@wyssmaster pretty sure there was one interviewer who asked "and did they guess correctly?" and he responded "they did".
Ain't nobody bothering Sean Bean about what he thinks of season 8. His star power made GoT
In 2019, my bucket list was to see the end of the Skywalker Saga, Game of Thrones, and the Infinity War Saga, with the hope that at least 1 of them was going to be a satisfying end. I'm really thankful with out Endgame turn out. lol.
For me the Skywalker saga ended with the Return of the Jedi, Winds of Winter is still yet to come and Endgame ending was an almost perfect ending for the Infinity saga
I thought Endgame sucked too lol. I don't understand why they had to completely invalidate everything that happened in Infinity War and just resurrect everyone, I thought it was very lazy writing with no real consequences to the protagonists failing
@@sanfanderthey killed off iron man and captain america and if they killed off all the characters they lost marvel would be in the shits
@@kirk001 I felt that way about GOT. I’ll never be that invested in a show again! Too old.
@@sanfanderWhat do you mean? They killed of Iron Man, Captain America (well he's alive but not really), Gamora and Natasha. Sure they have alternate Gamora but "our" Gamora died and remains dead
Another huge plot point that was dropped was the whole story of the Night King. We saw his origin. But what was his goal, his mission? Why did he make those patterns with the corpses? None of those answered. I Really feel that HBO should have intervened and stopped D& D from going in this direction.
The shitty thing is, not only did D&D screw up the ending, they killed the rewatchability of the whole show. When I watch it now it infuriates me seeing how glorious the show was in it's earlier seasons with the poltics, the doalogues, the acting, and how D&D just ruined it coz of greed and their ego.
If they wanted to chase the Star wars money. Then they should have just let other writers finish the story.
Bran talks about the Night King's motivations once, but it's just some vague BS about "he wants to kill me because I'm the memory of the world." Which is basically gibberish and makes no sense, because they never really give a reason for why the Night King would even care about that.
@@kimmalahits pretty obvious? The Children made him to stop Men. So he must. Until they are all gone. Yes even the memory of them. No chance they can return. That's the goal.
The spirals are clearly the Targaryen sigil....
If it relieves you at all, perhaps the king of the night would be Jon Snow. In the books there is no Night King and his death/murder on the wall could be what breaks the Stark blood magic that built the wall. imagine how epic a battle between daenerys and jon in the sky! or jon wanting to kill his little brother and arya wanting to save her favorite brother. it would make much more sense for the night king to ride a dragon, the blood treason that began with the emperor and empress in yi ti, the blood spilled between the children of the forest and the revenge against the starks who took their lands, killed their men, they destroyed their gods and stole their daughters.
The main reason with mystery box writing is that once the box is opened and the secret is revealed you've likely both underwhelmed your audience and also killed any desire to rewatch the series. It's a big reason why I'm slightly regretful that I didn't watch Lost when it aired and will likely never watch it.
every book reader knew about Jon parentage
It's the worst kept secret in the saga
ashara dayne
Yeah his true father was Ned
And the fact that he was imprisoned and then exiled, and when they discussed who should be the new king at the council, they didnt even consider jon snow
That scene plays like the its the writers room deciding who should win ("who has the best story?") not at all what the story dictates.
It’s so clear that the Starks usurped his throne and casted him out because he’s a bastard
A bit late to consider logic and reason. Why bother when the last 4 seasons was a steady escalation of madness and stupidity?
@@nont18411 the unsullied would have killed as soon as they knew he killed Dany. He never would’ve seen the inside of a cell.
@@carastone3473that part. They wouldn’t have wasted time talking and planning. They would have impaled him with a quickness.
2 HOURS ? Thats dedication.
2 HOURS? Nah that's too much dedication to not be gay, poor comparison man
They plot twisted themselves to death. Trying to make Arya's journey have meaning. But she wasn't the main character all these deaths were suffered for.
So much was wasted but Jon was one of the worst for sure. They tied him so heavily to the Long Night to the point he gets resurrected and for what? They made his parentage such a major plot point and threw it away. Bran as well tbh, both of them had so much emphasis and were tied so heavily to the White Walker plot and then did nothing basically. I may never recover from the anti-climax of GoT, it's still unbelievable how badly they botched it.
He got resurrected to save the world by killing Dany. And his parentage was 'thrown away' because it's not heritage that makes a man, but his character. And Bran 'did nothing' because ruling is not some prize you get, even less 'deserve,' for doing something, but a duty and responsibility.
@@SerbAtheist That was not satisfying at all considering so many characters were in a position to be able to do that, and considering where and how his resurrection happened. They say that but that parentage was made to matter a lot, if it wasn't supposed to matter then he shouldn't have been resurrected, bloodline shouldn't have directly given magic abilities like riding dragons, warging, using royal blood to make shadow babies etc. And Bran, they again, went through all this magical B.S. only for it not to really have any major effect and he was not actually otherwise qualified over the others to rule. That would make sense if they showed him to be this exceptional leader but they didn't, he was basically a weird robot that was needlessly cryptic by the end.
They also ruined Tyrion’s Character arc by omitting Jaime’s confession from the books. Instead of being lovesick over a 304 who betrayed him, Tyrion would realize there was one woman out there who did love him and his Father/Brother took that away from him; and spiraling him down his path. This confession broke him and gave him hope at the same time. He was crazy enough to risk it all by killing his father and trying to learn Tysha’s whereabouts.
Also in the books it was implied that Lyanna Stark may have been manipulated by Rhaegar rather than being in love or kidnapped. Perhaps in the show it would have been revealed piece by piece: surface level lie told first of the kidnapping, then “finding out the truth” in that Lyanna loved Rhaegar and wasn’t kidnapped, then finally the real Truth in that she did love Rhaegar but she was also manipulated by him due to his obsession with Prophecy (and may have even regretted starting the Rebellion).
But like everything else, that was abandoned.
Let's be honest, Jon Snow could've been Luke Skywalker (original trilogy) levels of popularity if they would've followed through instead of fumbling their biggest plot twist.
I literally still get sick every time I see Aria fly through the air and slow motion
This a good video man.
That scene from S6E10 - I got the same chills. I still do when I watch it. I think it's important for people to remember that - while S5 onwards diverged from the books in many ways, and had a lot of sub-par stuff, and they did really drop the ball in the last 2 seasons - the later seasons still had a lot of beautifully-made, beautifully-performed, beautifully-written parts in there too.
On a related note - Robert Aramayo gets a lot of schtick for his funny-looking face and his role in Rings Of Power, but, I think he's awesome in that scene. I really buy his chemistry with Aisling Franciosi - they genuinely seem like they've known each other their whole lives - and his expression after "If Robert finds out, he'll kill him" perfectly conveys the near mind-numbing jumble of thoughts and feelings in Ned's head and heart in that moment.
If Sansa betrayed Jon's trust like that in the books, she's getting overthrown by the northerners because she broke an oath in front of the heart tree. Not even counting that Jon would be having a caniption over this with how much he believes in oaths and honoring them, dudes gonna be like Gabi in AoT S4.😂
@@GreyMagee74 I don’t think everyone in the north is aware that she swore to keep Jon’s true identity a secret from them.
The north picked Jon not Sansa, how would they react when Sansa tells them a foreign council voted to exile him? Would they care? I think they would care that Sansa would listen to "southerners"
The Northerners broke plenty of oaths. They are fickle just like anyone else.
Jon & Sansa marry in the books.
Dany, Tyrion & JOn ... are the three Heads of the Dragon .
D&D knew this from Season 1 but George has full TV rights and doesn't want his books spoiled.
@@williamemerick6060 They also know he bend to a queen then killed her. They're expecting him to be punished for it.
7:07 Bran: "He is the heir of the Iron Throne"
(a few episodes later when prisoner Tyrion suggests that Bran should be the next king of Westeros)
also Bran: "Why do you think I came all this way?"
Bran isn't the heir. Jon is the heir. But breaking the wheel means no more monarchy by blood - either lineage or conquering. Council election will become votes by the people. That will actually change the country. Plus anyone that wanted to force Jon on the throne vs find peace & freedom beyond the wall (or Frodo to stay in the Shire vs go West) is evil.
Genuinely can’t believe you think Jon’s reveal was a better scene that the sept’s destruction. Wild
The only thing that bothered me was Jon killing Dany. With all the incest rampant what’s the matter with aunt and nephew who never knew each other before.
I mean he was never safe. She worked her entire life to rule, only to find out that she has a male counterpart with a stronger claim. And she'd just burned down kings landing, she had to die. She had become too obsessed with 'breaking the wheel'. Jon had no choice, (Rewatch the conversation between Jon and tyrion in the cell)
@@EddieR322 Why would ending feudalism be so bad? The one who was never safe was Dany, because those ambitious people would try to place a more manipulable king to gain more power, that's exactly what happened with Varys. Jon didn't have an army to maintain KL so for him to claim the throne just because he has the supposed name would only work with poison and betrayal (the Dothraki live to avenge their khal and the show forgot that). Even if the diary proved that Rhaegar and Lyanna were married, it doesn't prove that it’s more complicated than that for a prince. There’s still no evidence that Jon is their child. Honestly, it would have been easier if Jon had accepted Daenerys’s proposal to rule together; it would have been peaceful. Revealing himself as a Targaryen would honestly turn everyone against him. Dorne would demand his head, Robert’s rebellion to rescue Lyanna involved the North, the Riverlands, and the Stormlands, so the families that lost loved ones in that war would resent him. I find it extremely amusing that the North would kneel to Jon (we only kneel to a Stark, but Jon is a Targaryen; if he declared himself a Targaryen, he would lose the North’s support). Honestly, it was a mistake to reveal the truth about him; it ruined the character development we followed since the first season. Did Daenerys need to die? Why burn King’s Landing? Aegon the Conqueror burned Harrenhal and Dorne when they refused to kneel. Cersei refused when she beheaded Missandei out of spite; why should Daenerys believe Tyrion and Cersei when they have lied multiple times? I don’t care about King’s Landing; I was already angry with Daenerys for her complacency in the war. Another who killed more than Daenerys, Tywin Lannister, ordered the devastation of the Riverlands. Imagine a state being ravaged. He also destroyed House Reyne and King’s Landing during Robert’s rebellion. Both Tywin and Aegon were admired and respected in Westeros. Jon wouldn’t have done anything for King’s Landing; he wouldn’t even have gone there and cared little about the destruction Cersei caused. He never went there to stop her. Tyrion, another hypocrite who was planning to save Cersei and extend the war for another 10 years, worked for other cruel kings and never cared. Remember in Essos when he gave the masters another 7 years to keep their slaves? Or Joffrey, the baby killer? I even thought they would set King’s Landing on fire with the green fire left by Aerys because it’s very out of character for Daenerys to actually destroy a city. But I understand why she did it and I don’t understand why the audience says these things; it’s as if they were watching a Disney/Marvel movie and didn’t know the Game of Thrones universe.
Arya vs night king was worse
Nah, my heart broke when she didn’t burn it all down a build something new. It just made more sense to me that she burned it all up and sat on an ashen thrown
Aryas arc was to take revenge on the people on her list and realise that shes still a stark. Thats all. Some characters are just meant to be side characters
Well maybe they shouldn't have a side character end the night king? That was just crap tbh. She ran past hundreds of ww and they barely looked sideways. Jon should have been the one to end him, yes its predictable, doesn't mean it's a bad idea
I just hate so much Arya killing the night king
So Jon would kill Ramsey, Night King, AND Dany? That's too much. Jon is the one responsible for stopping ice AND fire and he is ice and fire? But he is more Frodo than Aragorn. He deserves freedom and peace beyond the wall just like Frodo left for the West.
Why does Arya get faceless assassin training? To kill Cersei? Her list? She doesn't need that level of training for those regular humans?
@@orphanedhanyou Jon didn't kill Ramsey though he left that for Sansa. He killed Dany but was it necessary? I think it would've been much more meaningful if he killed the Night King. Dany could've died in a different way.
This was my favourite storyline and it still hurts they did nothing with it :(
The thing, Jon's parentage didn't mean that he HAD to become king at the end. Secret Prince claiming his birthright does sound a little cliché and that's not what Martin is about. BUT you cannot deconstruct the trope without actually doing it first. The show used that reveal only to justify driving a wedge between Jon and Dany, which made NO SENSE. In the world of Westeros, this level of familial relation would not raise an eyebrow. I mean, even in our real world, uncle-niece and first cousins were a thing (just look at the Habsburgs). There are examples in House Stark itself, too. So, I find it hard to believe that Jon would find it so fundamentally repulsive. So, in the end, they had no idea what to do with Jon and his bombshell.
1:44 gods the writing was strong, then.
Gods I was strong back then
We got a much more watered down version compared to the books. The characters in the books were completely different. Jon was a completely different person. I'm sure D and D read the books, but they didn't love them. They were looking to make some money.
They think we’re watching it because of their cinematic skills that’s where they went wrong, they let their ego take over, we loved the show because it was the book we loved, the story we loved, in cinematic format. I’m still pissed about the ending, can’t even rewatch it.
“like the kid who always gets picked last in dodgeball” hahahah dude starts it right off with violence
I thought that Jon was Azhor hai and Danny was Nissa Nissa. Jon would have to forge the valerian steel sword in Dany's heart of fire (Just like the legend) to make the flaming sword. Maybe Danny is pregnant to Jon, making it even more heartbreaking.
So. George is a mysoginist. Very clear on that.
Well he IS! Jon, Azor Ahai, had to kill the person he loves, Dany, to save the world from terrible evil, also Dany. The big twist was that the two were one and the same.
I’ve always attributed that famous “tell me who is jon’s mother?” conversation to a couple young producers that have access to the most prominent internet fan theory by far and presented it to this old man who uses a typewriter as their own deductions from being such big fans themselves. R+L=J is the first thing you’ll come across if you get into asoiaf theories, even 20 years ago. Boom, rights secured, old man is dazzled.
Thought I'd be able to listen aloud at work but had to go to headphones.
Without Jon uniting everyone to fight the white Walkers they would have all been consumed by the long night. Without him distracting the white walker dragon it would have eaten Arya like a single little tatter tot separated from the pack.
I get a lot of fans were disappointed by the ending, but hating on something just to hate is really strange, just enjoy it for what it is! Just my opinion
Arya killing the Night King is like Ron Weasley killing Voldermort
I thought the plot twist was known before the show aired it? Book readers were spoiling it for me before it happened.
Fantastic take and video. I agree with everything you said besides how the show should have ended
It was never going to mean anything since Jon became a member of the nights watch
Yeah, but they subverted our expectations though.
🤣
Subverted? Only if you weren't paying attention
@@orphanedhanyou you're clearly not paying attention lol
The GTA mission line got me😂 Theon got kicked in the man 🐱😂😂😂
The red flags were everywhere...
1. Why is Jon suddenly not a bastard? Rhaegar was already married and no lords in the realm and especially none of the Kings made this new marriage legal. Even if a septon blessed it, no one would ever think it's valid. Jon having a claim on the throne as Aegon was just D&D cutting Young Griff/Aegon VI from the books and giving that plot line to Jon instead to make him seem cooler.
Except, D&D had no plans for Jon. Where as Aegon in the books is primed to take King's Landing and will likely be King in Winds of Winter, Jon literally does nothing.
2. "Robert's Rebellion was built on a lie"
No, the fuck, it wasn't. Aerys really did kill Brandon and Rickard. Aerys was the mad king, Aerys did tell Jon Arryn to send Robert and Ned's heads to him. 4 Lords Paramounts were all allied while Robert was 5th in line to the throne. Rhaegar disappearing with Lyanna simply is what made Brandon ride to the Red Keep.
This line has ruined all discourse about the Rebellion because D&D don't understand why it happened so now the casual fan is fully convinced Rhaegar alone started the war and not you know, his dad who started the entire war.
3. "His name is Aegon Targaryen..."
No, the fuck it ain't. Why would Rhaegar name another son Aegon. Oberyn talks about baby Aegon like all throughout season 4. Why would Lyanna name her kid after her dead lover's dead baby son?
4. Rhaegar's appearance.
More of a nitpick here, but Rhaegar by all lore is prettier than literally everyone with long silver hair, purple eyes, and wears really nice clothes since he is the prince.
No offense to the actor. He is a handsome guy, but they gave him no real makeup to make him more feminine looking, ratty clothes that make him look poor, and they reused Viserys' wig from season 1.
Why does he look like that?
I kind of always have thought since I figured out R+L=J that Jon would pull a William the Conqueror/The Bastard and take back the Throne as a bastard Targaryen, to kind of go against those themes that not all bastards are bad or worthless lile other characters portray them as.
And Robert's Rebellion was kind of built on a lie, Rhaegar was smart enough to be organizing a coup against his dad, you don't think he left info to the right people or to people he expected to tell the right people what his and Lyanna's plans were? This is a little fan theory but still, if someone didn't lie to Brandon or intentionally didn't tell him then that means the foundations of the Rebellion were a lie, especially since Robert ran around spouting off he's fighting this war for his kidnapped betrothed AND to take revenge for his future inlaws.
And the rest of your statements are 100% accurate.😂
All good points, though just as a minor thing, I don't think they ever actually mention the name of Rhaegar's first son (or daughter for that matter) a single time in the show. It's always just really vague "his children," "her children," and so on. So if you weren't a book reader, you probably wouldn't realize how stupid it was for Lyanna to name her baby Aegon.
Also it gets kind of funny once you watch House of the Dragon and see they have built pretty much the entire show on the premise of "these people use the name Aegon too damn much!"
@GreyMagee74 Except if Jon takes any throne, he would prove every stereotype about bastards right. If he is crowned King in the North, then he usurps his siblings. If he takes the Iron Throne, he usurps Dany, Aegon, Tommen, Myrcella, Stannis, and Shireen.
Ig in the show, it dropped all the subtle parts of the story and characters tho. They would've treated Jon usurping others like Cat feared as some noble thing cause Jon is cool.
@@kimmalah reading the books first made me dislike pretty much everything after season 4 and a lot of smaller parts of the first few seasons.
@@justdirt to be fair in most instances of monarchies the bastard of the crown prince/princess would be able to be legitimized and take the throne instead of an Uncle/Aunt or close/distant cousins, but in ASoIaF GRRM would have to introduce a modern Great Council (which we got 2 in the show at least) for them to go that route since there is only minor precedents like this with lords and its a last ditch effort for those houses too. Shit look at House Hornwood and Darry they only have young bastards left for their houses at this point so they most likely will. Back to Jon's case, GRRM could go that route which is very unlikely or they could go the route of Dany and Jon unifying their claim through Matrilineal marriage (if Jon does wind up just being a bastard) like they dangled in front of us for 2 seasons and then did an about-face with that storyline, this is how i think the Throne plot line will end but it wont be a sweet ending where they both sit the throne together like im portraying it to be because... its ASoIaF and you only get tragedy or bittersweet ending for people in this universe.
Jon Snow was my favorite character I will never going to forgive how they ruined the character and how he didn't archive his destiny as the prince who was Promised . Is like Aragon unite all realms of man against Sauron doesn't become king. And I know the reason of why GGR Martin hadn't finished the book is because he fears that ending he want would ruined the saga as the Season 8 ruined all the series
You know you have said everything in this video I have said since GOT ended!!! What good was it to find out Jon was a Targaryen if nothing ever became of it???
Yea nah yeah these was all Sean Bean. Brilliant scene
Arya killing the night king was gayer than a pride parade.
I was so upset at this, the whole reason I started watching GoT was the Fild theory episode about jon's parentage
They should have stuck to the source material. They thought they could make it better. Six to 10 episodes is not enough to tell the whole story.
There was no Source Material anymore that was the Problem
Well there may be a sequel in the future called Snow. If that happens I imagine he will come to claim what's his after he realizes Bran is the Night King
Just leaving this here 13:03 ...
Came to comments right when I heard that 😂😂
@@narutolovesthebulls7374 it kinda does make you gay. ha ha ha
That was a horrible analogy.
It would be better to say:
Just because I spent two hours in a kitchen, doesn't mean I'm a cook.
Just because I learned to play a song on the flute, doesn't mean I'm a musician.
Just because I play basketball with my friend, doesn't mean I'm an athlete.
...
Like 2 hours??? Sure you’re not 😂
So we ain’t gonna talk about 13:05
12:59 This line is 🔥🔥🔥
A trend in petty egotistical, or pathetic insecure writers, when they think the audience has figured out the twist earlier than they wanted they then change it. Even though everything was building up to the original twist, they suddenly change it. Its terrible, and upsets everyone.
12:04 the sound with Sansa is hilarious
If Ned wanted to save his honor he should have secretly told his wife. or go to Saint Denis and say hi to everyone.
13:02 LOL
LMAO I gagged too no homo
13:03 🤨 ayo
My thing is in the books if Jon snows stays dead will this storyline matter . Or will it all go to feagon
@Tucker Creed you have the best one liners.
One of Dany's dragons should've claimed Jon like Seasomoke did Addam of Hull.
One does not simply let Elrond play Eddard Stark.
... I think you mean Boromir? Sean Bean played Boromir in Lord of the Rings.
@@cthonisprincess4011 Fun fact? Young Ned Stark is played by the same actor who plays Elrond in Rings of Power.
@@ronaldjr3092 Huh. Now I know that ROP definitely did quite a few of the actors dirty- Robert Aramayo looked way better as Ned Stark than as Lord Elrond. It must be the hair (or lack of hair, rather).
After the book finish I hope better director come redo how TV thrones end
The book is 10 years away because there s one more to go after this one he s been writing for 14 years. But they d never redo the show now lmao
So you want him to go with his name over his upbringing, the same thing Theon did and Jon called him out on?
In the books the hints are there. He is more than likely going to be the King. I think he will take Winterfell in the books but there will be a challenge, a grave challenge he will overcome. And then on to be the King in Dream of Spring. Jon is Rhaegar’s son, but his name is not Aegon, possibly Aemon
I think his name might be Viserys the male version of visenya to complete the three dragon heads
13:03 YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH, I have some news for you, my boy.
HBO should cancel the end and restart the final season correctly. With a great Sorry for everyone
When it cut from the baby's face to Jon's I thought at first it was incest
I should have been Jon because he is Stark as well and the Night King(s) is a Stark's long time nemesis and horror. He could have avenge the straks and fulfilled the prophecy
U don get it, why do u think Arya was said to look like Lyanna? Arya is the daughter of Lyanna and Rhaegar and her true name is Visenya, is so obvious, thats why she defeated the night king
it doesn't make sense for jon's real name being "aegon" because rhaegar's plan was to have 3 kids, the 3 heads of the dragon. why wd he name 2 of them the same? also idk how old liana is in the show but even if she really loved rhaegar in the books too, he still did raped her bc she was 15 and he a old ass man
I'm not gonna be here defending real life SR but this is a fantasy show based on our medieval times where girls were forced to marry at 12 to 40 years olds back then.
Lyanna being 16 or so is above the age of when she should have been married and pumping out her 2nd kid by that point in a medieval setting. Once again, I am not endorcing this. I'm just stating the fact that your logic doesn't correlate with the rules and morality of this universe or the time period of our past, no matter how disgusting it is.
Understanding the lore is important :)
You realize how many kids died in medieval times? They would reuse the same name over and over because multiple prior kids died in the womb or through toddler age. Aegon wanted 3 children & thought that was part of his mission. But he was wrong. He (fire) & Lyanna (ice) were to bring forth Azor Ahai (or perhaps both Rhaegar & are Azor Ahai & Nissa Nissa and Non is Lightbringer in the flesh? Or Jon is still Azor & Dany Nussa Nissa?). Lyanna may not have even known what Rhaegar might name Jon, he may not have wanted it to be a variation of Visenya. She may not have known any of his dreams or visions for their child. So what does she do as she is dying? Name him after the Targaryen everyone knows. Plus it's simply easier for the show when Rhaegars first set of childrens names aren't mentioned & we don't even see the vision of him talking about the 3 heads Dany has. Jon being "another Aegon" harkens back to book Dany & her frustrations with male heirs & male Targaryens.
Nobles would name children after dead relatives all the time. Rhaegar didn’t name Jon, if anything he probably assumed Jon would’ve been a girl to complete the three heads for Aegon.
So it’s possible Lyanna named him in honor of his dead brother. Of Rheagar actually told her about the prophecies then it’s not that unreasonable. Plus it’s not like Jon’s gonna change his name even if he did somehow embrace his Targ heritage.
the only reason a targaryen need to be on the iron throne was so that he could unite the seven kingdoms and fight the white walkers with dragons when the long night comes... and jon did exactly that! it was never about "the prince who was promised vs the night king" it was about the prince who was promised vs the long night!
Crazy how Theon was treated better than Jon snow growing up , thanks to that idiot catyln stark .
I still think Martin is trolling everyone with the show. I still don't believe that Rhyegar is Jon Snow's father. I think the R in R+L=J is Robert. Besides, if Rhygar carved this out then wouldn't it say R+L=A? The whole reason Syrcie pushed Joffrey to execute Ned was because he knew about Joffrey' parentage. How did he figure this out? How did he know and how could he have proven this? What prevented him from screaming out the truth about the young blonde haired king? It is the same thing that would exspose Jon's true parentage. The same that would prove Joffrey is not Robert's is the same thing that would prove Jon is not Rhygar's son. It is also hinted with Jon's first name.
The reason I hate what they did with Jon Snow is the same reason I love what they did with Daenerys. If you just follow the logic of the show and it's shakespearian vibe you know that Jon Snow killing the Night King and being on the throne is announced since the beggining, same goes for Daenerys going mad. It's ok not to surprise the spectators but it's not to betray your story.
We luckily looked it up online by smarter people who theorized it.
I hope jon's parents will be ashara and ned in the books
The next time I see you we'll talk about your mother
The next time he sees his father
Is in the crypt 7 years later
At his fathers statue
Sam tells Jon about his lineage
It's a pretty beautiful pay off
I don't really agree w this
That if they followed exactly what's supposed to be
It goes against everything that makes got thrones great
The show starts failing exactly when characters get plot armor and do what they're supposed to
Without thought and it's bad bc it doesn't feel like politics in our world
And esp how anyone could die
Not living up to your potential is the most true part of the story
This is what makes the Witcher interesting as well
Being monster slayer is is window dressin, it's the true to life story telling
The biggest mistake was not taking time to build this conclusions
But they're definitely close to what George wanted
Of course it's also a subversion for dany to good and not become the mad queen
So yea
Jon’s snows real name is Maegor.
13:03 bro what???
How can the scene be perfect when young Ned Stark looks like Doogy Howser?
It's obvious from chapter two in Book 1. Come on, Ned wouldn't be unfaithful to his wife, he won't talk about Jon's mother, he made an undisclosed promise to his dying sister, etc. Any reader with a bit of reading experience could guess it.
like throwing away a character's development and throwing it in the trash. Him being a Targaryen was the character's death
The ned stark poster from the first season shows you who will win the iorn throne! But, in the end regardless of jon being a tarrgaryen or not he should never have been charged with daenerys death! He would still be king by rights of conquest!
Ned as hand, as someone appointed like his son Bran as the Three Eyed Raven, someone with no ties to the throne by blood (lineage or conquering). When half the lords were for Dany in order to move forward Jon could not take the throne without more war. Any "fan" that wants Jon to be forced to stay and rule vs have freedom and peace beyond the wall is evil.
Jon being ice and fire I do believe was supposed to be important for him to be the one to push back ice and fire, like end the war for the dawn azor ahai/nissa Nissa style to create the flaming sword to defeat the night king. I believe d and d saw that fans could predict it and changed it. It's why we got the trash we got
They didn't change it though? Jon is the one responsible for stopping ice AND fire and he is ice and fire? But he is more Frodo than Aragorn. He deserves freedom and peace beyond the wall just like Frodo left for the West.
Everyone is still bitter about the greatest ball dropping in history. I stopped reading the books when the show took over, second greatest ball drop.
Well actually Jon is still a bastard. Raegar was already married, and there's no divorce in Westeros. He needed to kill Ellia Martell in order for his marriage to Lyana to be legitimate, and she dies after Jon is born.
He's not Jon Snow, he's Jon Sand.
If George had half the sense the lord of light gave a goat, he subvert all our expectations and just finish the f✓¢k!ng thing with a happy ending. Jon claims a dragon. Proving his targ lineage. Then Jon and Dany conquer and rule with people like bran as master as whispers davos as master of ships etc. no one is expecting THAT!!!
I could assure you that being a Targaryen means nothing to Jon Snow because he's dead in the books.
13:03 Lol
Did GoT ruin it or was that GRRM's idea that it meant nothing? Hmm I'd be money it was GRRM's. He likes to do the opposite of what's expected. It literally only mattered to send a certain other Targ over the edge.
I loathe Sansa. I could never feel for her
Book show fAegon or not Calling Jon Argon was idiotic of the highest degree. His murdered older brothers name Is Ageon a kid that was ver much alive when Rheagar or lyanna? named Jon
But brann had the better story
1. Bran became a demigod in the cave. He was the repository of the whole of history.
2. The conclave elected Bran because the election itself broke the wheel, because the election of Bran was the 'Dream of Spring.'
3. Destroying a socio-political system does not mean that the destroyer is the best to create the replacement.
I agree with the sentiment that Jon should have killed the Night King. Arya killing him made no sense within the narrative constructed in the show. What was the purpose of the prophecy if Arya kills the Night King?
Wait just a minute! RENLY WAS GAY?! but he was married to Margaery Tyrell!!
Edit many people guess that R+L=J. But i doubt its true. I think he is Eddards son
The perfect plot twist? I think the secret prince plot twist is pretty damn overdone and this one only had my eyes rolling into the back of my head. That said, if they were going to make a plot twist out of it then they should have at least used it for something cuz as stale as it was there was still wasted potential.
The twist is the books people it is Brandon Stark and Ashara Dayne are the parents of Jon Snow. He is the true King of North!!!!. Daynes are pre Dawn of the Empire of Dragons people.
Nah.
jon snows mother is ashara dayne.
Jon been called Eagon is stupid, since Rhaegar already had a son called Eagon and they are in the show to, killed by the mountain. D&D just forgot about that for sure
You didn't even spell it correctly though? What does that make you?
You realize how many kids died in medieval times? They would reuse the same name over and over because multiple prior kids died in the womb or through toddler age. Aegon wanted 3 children & thought that was part of his mission. But he was wrong. He (fire) & Lyanna (ice) were to bring forth Azor Ahai (or perhaps both Rhaegar & are Azor Ahai & Nissa Nissa and Non is Lightbringer in the flesh? Or Jon is still Azor & Dany Nussa Nissa?). Lyanna may not have even known what Rhaegar might name Jon, he may not have wanted it to be a variation of Visenya. She may not have known any of his dreams or visions for their child. So what does she do as she is dying? Name him after the Targaryen everyone knows. Plus it's simply easier for the show when Rhaegars first set of childrens names aren't mentioned & we don't even see the vision of him talking about the 3 heads Dany has. Jon being "another Aegon" harkens back to book Dany & her frustrations with male heirs & male Targaryens.
Dumb and dumber guesting who Jon’s mum was isn’t that impressive, If you look on redit and places 100s of people for years and years had that idea way way before the show was a thing
Personally I think Jon and Danny should have had a baby with like year gap. That would let them kill Danny while setting her being mad by conquering all of Westeros then Jon could kill her and be all sad and go to the north. Also this lets a Targaryen to be raised with no context or affiliate from their families this lets Bran became the regents essentially solving most of the problems what gonna happen after his death as he can't have kids.
The biggest let down was the Night king and the prince who was promised. The night king should have won the battle of winter fell..after that there could have been a time jump where winter has really come to Westrose and Night king arrives in kingslanding
The Jon/Dany kid idea was my theory for that 2 year gap we had between the seasons. Both tragically die with their friends and trusted advisors there to raise their son or daughter with one or both of the dragons still alive to potentially continue a new Dynasty in the way Dany wanted (before she was revealed to be a hypocrite of course😂)
Not kings landing harrenhall...the gods eye