In my mind the bigger issue isn't how it affects handling, but very expensive bits unprotected being rattled to pieces without protection from the suspension.
The extra mass of the wheel means that more NVH from poor road surfaces will be carried into the cabin, since the wheel is transferring those forces with more momentum. There’s no doubt that the ride quality will be worse.
I've no doubt that in a subjective test of average drivers, a change in unsprung mass would not be noticeable. Most drivers don't spend much, if any time operating at or near the limits of their daily driver's handling capabilities. What would be interesting is an objective, numbers based test of a more performance oriented vehicle as well as a test with drivers more accustomed to performance driving. Beyond that, given that the new family of motors has a motorcycle specific entry, that would seem a very important test as both unsprung and rotating mass have an enormous impact on handling that can be felt even by less experienced riders. None of this is meant as criticism of the product, just questions that could make for some interesting content.
@@soofle616 thank you for your comment! These are all good ideas and we will for sure be exploring these in future videos 👍 there is also already a real-world application of our motors in the motorcycle industry - Verge Motorcycles have been using our motors for a few years now. Make sure to check them out ⚡️
Thank you for the question. This has been carefully considered in the design of the entire system, including suspension, motor construction, and the use of robust materials. We also have years of field testing on Verge Motorcycles, which has demonstrated outstanding durability and performance, even in challenging conditions.
Tyres are part of the suspension system, to cope with unsprung mass you'd put some effort in to the right tyre choice. Often we have very stiff sidewall sporty tyres that transfer a lot of thr work to the suspension, going to more compliant high sidewall tyres, you can have suspension do less of the work.
All solutions and use cases have been carefully considered and will continue to be, including factors like tire choice and its impact on the suspension system. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
Our cameraman had just wrapped up four long days at CES. You’ve got to give him credit for capturing this clip in between hosting visitors at the booth. Points for dedication! 😄
Re. questions/comments regarding reliability . . . . I've used fairly inexpensive Chinese hub motors with "hot-rodded" controllers and high voltage/current packs for years with zero failures. The biggest question is how much more effective this design is at dissipating heat vs. traditional in-hub motors. I'm guessing most of their power density gains are due to the ability to run more current/voltage for longer periods of time. I often crank 3-4X more power (vs. manufacturer advertised) out of my motors but can only do this for so long before risking stator and/or magnet damage due to excessive heat. Solutions to this have been to use bigger motors (which can add quite bit of weight . . . topic of the video) and/or use some other way(s) to manage the heat. Effective thermal management (of all components in EV drive systems) has likely been the most important area of EV development outside of battery chemistry. There's a reason why EVs can't perform multiple hot laps in succession at the Nurburg Ring and often excessive heat within one or more drive system components (not battery capacity limitations but sometimes possibly braking systems . . . ironic given regen) is/are the limiting factor(s). Outside of Yasa trying to make axial flux motors cheaper to manufacture, there's been little news of anything other than incremental improvements to electric motors/machines . . . the principles/laws/formulas that govern them are what they are. It appears to me that these guys have come up with a very clever way to manage heat, thus squeeze more power density from a typical radial flux motor design . . . fewer parts, less weight and looks cool. Looking forward to some data.
To me, the biggest problem is reliability. Engine parts are more heavily affected by impacts than in a dampened/suspended situation. How about longterm reliability ?
Thank you for the question. This has been carefully considered in the design of the entire system, including suspension, motor construction, and the use of robust materials. We also have years of field testing on Verge Motorcycles, which has demonstrated outstanding durability and performance, even in challenging conditions.
The mounting is actually the easy part. Electric motors have two main components that are responsible for turning electrical energy into mechanical rotation; the “stator” and the “rotor”. The stator is the part that stays still and generates the rotating electromagnetic forces that turn the rotor. I’m sure you know by this point that the rotor is what rotates. For most electric motors, the rotor is housed inside the stator, and the rotor has the drive shaft attached to it. In this configuration, the rotor surrounds the stator, which means the entire exterior of the electric motor is rotating. That exterior attaches to the wheel. This configuration allows them to save a good amount of interior space because the electric motor, which used to sit in the chassis, is now mounted inside the wheel. This frees up chassis space that could be used for a variety of things, whether it be additional batteries, cabin space, or additional electronics.
@yummyhershey5902 yup watched the videos and talks. How does it mount to the wheel/rim? Or does this replace the wheel/rim? I've seen how it's mounted on the verge, but the automotive donut doesn't have what looks like any lug or bolt connections. Where the semi/truck donut does.
Thank you for the question. Vibration and road conditions were key considerations in the design of our motors. The entire system, including the motor construction and suspension, is engineered to handle these challenges effectively. Years of field testing on Verge Motorcycles have shown that our motors maintain both efficiency and reliability, even in demanding conditions.
We’re thrilled to hear your excitement! For pricing and availability, please reach out to us through our contact form at donutlab.com/contact. We’d love to discuss it with you!
Thank you for reaching out. We’ve been overwhelmed by the incredible number of contacts following our release and CES, but rest assured we are going through every message manually. We’re excited to explore the amazing projects and possibilities for our motor designs, and we’ll get back to you as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience!
Looks like a copy of a Thingap motor. Show us the internal structure. Your company just repeats the same unsprung mass story. That is the wrong approach. Remove the hub motor for far less unsprung mass. You need to show and prove the technology or this is just vaporware.
@@RA-gk5zg our motors are already in use on Verge Motorcycles, make sure to check them out. And follow us for more content, going deeper into the specifics of each of the motors.
Thank you for the question. Reliability has been a key focus throughout the development of our system. The design, including suspension integration, motor construction, and the use of robust materials, has been optimized to ensure durability. Years of field testing on Verge Motorcycles have shown outstanding results, proving the reliability of our technology in real-world conditions.
Only empty words, ornaments in glass cases with exaggerated stories. Sounds like a bunch of conartists. Show us a drag car doing the claimed time, show us track times, and even show us dyno runs with actual real life data. If you can't, it's only stories. 😂😂😂😂
![Noob To Max With DRAGON REWORK In Blox Fruits [FULL MOVIE]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/LnBMOinoOvA/mqdefault.jpg)
In my mind the bigger issue isn't how it affects handling, but very expensive bits unprotected being rattled to pieces without protection from the suspension.
The extra mass of the wheel means that more NVH from poor road surfaces will be carried into the cabin, since the wheel is transferring those forces with more momentum. There’s no doubt that the ride quality will be worse.
I've no doubt that in a subjective test of average drivers, a change in unsprung mass would not be noticeable. Most drivers don't spend much, if any time operating at or near the limits of their daily driver's handling capabilities. What would be interesting is an objective, numbers based test of a more performance oriented vehicle as well as a test with drivers more accustomed to performance driving. Beyond that, given that the new family of motors has a motorcycle specific entry, that would seem a very important test as both unsprung and rotating mass have an enormous impact on handling that can be felt even by less experienced riders. None of this is meant as criticism of the product, just questions that could make for some interesting content.
@@soofle616 thank you for your comment! These are all good ideas and we will for sure be exploring these in future videos 👍 there is also already a real-world application of our motors in the motorcycle industry - Verge Motorcycles have been using our motors for a few years now. Make sure to check them out ⚡️
If the car gets into a pothole, will the motor gets damaged like the hub motors in the scooters?
I think the same too
It depends on the rim
Thank you for the question. This has been carefully considered in the design of the entire system, including suspension, motor construction, and the use of robust materials. We also have years of field testing on Verge Motorcycles, which has demonstrated outstanding durability and performance, even in challenging conditions.
@@DonutLabOfficial i think sharing some video tests would confim this, actions speak louder than words
Tyres are part of the suspension system, to cope with unsprung mass you'd put some effort in to the right tyre choice. Often we have very stiff sidewall sporty tyres that transfer a lot of thr work to the suspension, going to more compliant high sidewall tyres, you can have suspension do less of the work.
All solutions and use cases have been carefully considered and will continue to be, including factors like tire choice and its impact on the suspension system. Thank you for sharing your thoughts!
how far do the bearings go?
Was anyone else focusing on the left-right swivel of the camera hand?
Our cameraman had just wrapped up four long days at CES. You’ve got to give him credit for capturing this clip in between hosting visitors at the booth. Points for dedication! 😄
Re. questions/comments regarding reliability . . . . I've used fairly inexpensive Chinese hub motors with "hot-rodded" controllers and high voltage/current packs for years with zero failures. The biggest question is how much more effective this design is at dissipating heat vs. traditional in-hub motors. I'm guessing most of their power density gains are due to the ability to run more current/voltage for longer periods of time. I often crank 3-4X more power (vs. manufacturer advertised) out of my motors but can only do this for so long before risking stator and/or magnet damage due to excessive heat. Solutions to this have been to use bigger motors (which can add quite bit of weight . . . topic of the video) and/or use some other way(s) to manage the heat. Effective thermal management (of all components in EV drive systems) has likely been the most important area of EV development outside of battery chemistry. There's a reason why EVs can't perform multiple hot laps in succession at the Nurburg Ring and often excessive heat within one or more drive system components (not battery capacity limitations but sometimes possibly braking systems . . . ironic given regen) is/are the limiting factor(s). Outside of Yasa trying to make axial flux motors cheaper to manufacture, there's been little news of anything other than incremental improvements to electric motors/machines . . . the principles/laws/formulas that govern them are what they are. It appears to me that these guys have come up with a very clever way to manage heat, thus squeeze more power density from a typical radial flux motor design . . . fewer parts, less weight and looks cool. Looking forward to some data.
Are you guys able to make the wheels diameter larger?
(I could use this wheel for a project if it can have larger diameter)
@mr.-E. yes, the motors can be scaled larger and smaller. Make sure to contact us through our website!
To me, the biggest problem is reliability. Engine parts are more heavily affected by impacts than in a dampened/suspended situation.
How about longterm reliability ?
Thank you for the question. This has been carefully considered in the design of the entire system, including suspension, motor construction, and the use of robust materials. We also have years of field testing on Verge Motorcycles, which has demonstrated outstanding durability and performance, even in challenging conditions.
How does this mount in the wheel and how does this change the internals of a car?
The mounting is actually the easy part. Electric motors have two main components that are responsible for turning electrical energy into mechanical rotation; the “stator” and the “rotor”. The stator is the part that stays still and generates the rotating electromagnetic forces that turn the rotor. I’m sure you know by this point that the rotor is what rotates.
For most electric motors, the rotor is housed inside the stator, and the rotor has the drive shaft attached to it. In this configuration, the rotor surrounds the stator, which means the entire exterior of the electric motor is rotating. That exterior attaches to the wheel.
This configuration allows them to save a good amount of interior space because the electric motor, which used to sit in the chassis, is now mounted inside the wheel. This frees up chassis space that could be used for a variety of things, whether it be additional batteries, cabin space, or additional electronics.
@yummyhershey5902 yup watched the videos and talks. How does it mount to the wheel/rim? Or does this replace the wheel/rim?
I've seen how it's mounted on the verge, but the automotive donut doesn't have what looks like any lug or bolt connections. Where the semi/truck donut does.
You can still have 4 motors in the chassis and independent control of the wheels without needing hub motors. I think you are conflating two arguments
What if, all that vibration made by road, does that cause electric motor ineffecient or unreliable, aptera also change their inwheel elaphe motor
Thank you for the question. Vibration and road conditions were key considerations in the design of our motors. The entire system, including the motor construction and suspension, is engineered to handle these challenges effectively. Years of field testing on Verge Motorcycles have shown that our motors maintain both efficiency and reliability, even in demanding conditions.
Been waiting years for a company to do this and you have smashed it 🎉🎉🎉🎉🎉 but let’s talk price how much and when will it be available to purchase ???
We’re thrilled to hear your excitement! For pricing and availability, please reach out to us through our contact form at donutlab.com/contact. We’d love to discuss it with you!
Send me this motor
Hi donut lab, been trying to get in touch through website and mail to discuss regarding integration of donut motor in electric van made by my company
Thank you for reaching out. We’ve been overwhelmed by the incredible number of contacts following our release and CES, but rest assured we are going through every message manually. We’re excited to explore the amazing projects and possibilities for our motor designs, and we’ll get back to you as soon as possible. Thank you for your patience!
@DonutLabOfficial thanks for the response, will be waiting for your email confirmation soon , company name is singularity automobiles.
Noted!
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Looks like a copy of a Thingap motor. Show us the internal structure. Your company just repeats the same unsprung mass story. That is the wrong approach. Remove the hub motor for far less unsprung mass. You need to show and prove the technology or this is just vaporware.
@@RA-gk5zg our motors are already in use on Verge Motorcycles, make sure to check them out. And follow us for more content, going deeper into the specifics of each of the motors.
What about reliability? He conveniently avoids that subject.
Thank you for the question. Reliability has been a key focus throughout the development of our system. The design, including suspension integration, motor construction, and the use of robust materials, has been optimized to ensure durability. Years of field testing on Verge Motorcycles have shown outstanding results, proving the reliability of our technology in real-world conditions.
Only empty words, ornaments in glass cases with exaggerated stories. Sounds like a bunch of conartists. Show us a drag car doing the claimed time, show us track times, and even show us dyno runs with actual real life data. If you can't, it's only stories. 😂😂😂😂