How High Should My Violin Shoulder Rest Be?
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- Опубликовано: 29 апр 2022
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I have an enviable collection of shoulder rests as I've been struggling to find my good fit. I settled on the collapsible Kun with a center mount Flesch chin rest. Shoulder-side legs on the shortest setting, chest leg on the longest (extra long), to try to keep my violin as horizontal as possible without raising my shoulder to play. As I'm working on rapid shifts and starting vibrato, I find that the violin feels unstable, because now I'm losing the left hand support that used to exist in 1st position. The side effect is tension, as I'm wrenching my chin to stabilize the violin -- when I do, the shoulder rest legs let go of the violin. All kinds of trouble. So I'm back looking at settings to figure things out. I did try the Bon Musica, Wolf two, Viva La Musica -- all 3 slide off the violin. My position is around the corner of the violin only, to keep the shoulder rest close to my neck, and that seems to impair the grip on all these legs. I might need to try a wider attachment -- but that brings the violin far down my very sloped shoulder, and away from my chin. Gaah.
Thanks Eric. I have a VERY short neck almost none at all 😵💫. I have Kun shoulder rest and it's never been comfortable. The end that is nearest my shoulder doesn't drape over the top of my shoulder but digs in an inch or so lower. Compounding that I've struggling with a tear in the supraspinatus muscle in my left shoulder for some months now which doesn't seem to be getting better and might need surgery. After having x-rays I discovered I've got two veryebrae in my lower neck part of my spine that are fused together. Nobody's ever spotted that before. I am not sure if the muscle injury happened while playing my violin, or from some other action, but it sure hurts when I try to play. I am thinking of switching to a piece of foam strapped on with rubber bands, or a small folded up hand towel to see if that works better. I refuse to give up playing so an answer will surely come!
How’s it going now, after a month? I’m having severe neck and shoulder pain, worse than ever. The rear deck of my Prius gave out and fell on my neck a week ago. I’m gonna call my auto insurance company and see about a visit to an orthopedic surgeon. I’m getting a massage on Saturday, I’m hopeful.
It’s interesting because with my first violin teacher he had me extend my shoulder rest legs with the parts that come with the Wolfe Forte Primo. It caused my violin to be really high and my neck isn’t even that tall. Course I didn’t know better at the time. Professor in college had me take the extenders off just saying I didn’t need them and that the head can rest more relaxed that way. She also explained many other things about how to avoid injury so I make sure to relay that to my own students. Glad you do the same for yours to help keep that tension to a minimum!
It looks like you had a great teacher! The Wolfe forte primo is already a high enough shoulder rest. Glad you got that taken care of in your collegiate years 😊👍🏻
After twenty years, shoulder and neck pain forced me to jettison my shoulder rest. I don’t know what other factors played in, but I’ve learned to play without and no longer have to apply 2.5-3 lb pressure on the chin rest to hold the violin up. I’m free.
Also, I will never again have the experience of a violin slipping out of a shoulder rest.
this is soooo helpful because i also have a longneck and play viola is kinda tired so i tried many different shoulder rest and distance it goes higher and higher but it doesnt work.now everything fixed!Thank u!
My intonation is the best when my chin rest is taller and more to the side. I recently switched to an SAS, and then lowered my Khun shoulder rest a little.
Thank you so much.😍 Your video helped me to understand how come I have sore muscles in the shoulders and the neck while playing the violin.
You’re welcome!
I don't feel relaxed at all playing violin 🤣 (I'm a flute player & been learning violin for about a year now.) Violin is the most uncomfortable instrument.
My violin teacher didn't go over this, so thank you!
You’re welcome! Hope it helps, thanks for being a part of our little community ☺️✌🏻
Have you considered playing the cello instead?
Your body is conditioned to the flute playing position, of course. Maybe your pain is a sign that your body just doesn’t like the violin.
I’m sure you do stretches before and after playing, right?
@@nickiemcnichols5397 I don't do stretches before and after. I'll give that a try. I started learning violin because I inherited my mom's violin (she passed when I was a teenager) & my brother had asked me to play her violin for his wedding.
After years playing a violin, I still dont know the correct heigh, and no one is talking about this. All this time, my chin has to squeeze the violin so that it doesnt fall. I'm never be able to let loose the finger board during playing, because it will fall.
Could you explore more the correct posture, how should it be?
Yay. Something I can relate to!
I started playing and taking music lessons online when the pandemic started. since i'll be stuck working at home, might as well pick up a new skill and not die of boredom. bought a whole bunch of shoulder rests (i think i have 5 : kun, a wooden one, bonmusica, a black plasitc one and the latest one is the korfker rest which is the most comfortable but maybe because i learned the lesson about SRs the hard way -- more on that in a bit.).
So 1 year in on zoom-only lessons i've started to feel some minor-ish neck pains from lessons and practice. I thought taller shoulder rests would fix it. so i got a bonmusica and configured it to the tallest i possibly can to fill the gap between my colar bone and where my head/chin would rest and went with that configuration for ~5 months. Then one night, after an hour of practice, I had trouble sleeping because my left side (starting from the shoulder blades up to the upper part of the left side of my neck) felt really stiff. I ignored it and just went on for more days playing with the high SR setup. It worsened the following night(s) until it was so bad i couldn't practice and just went to bed. The tingling sensation on my fingers and feet worsened into tremors - starting with my fingers and toes then later in the night, the vibrating sensation would crawl up my chest that it wakes me up in the middle of the night. I try looking for actual tremors with my own eyes and most of the time it wasn't there. i can feel my limbs tingling and shaking but i cannot visually see it most of the time and during the times that I do, I can't verify if the shaking is because i was still weak from being jolted out of sleep. I stopped playing the violin for a month (still didn't know it was nerve related , thinking it was probably just vitamin deficiency , lack of sleep or just plain aging) the pain stopped after 1.5 months and the tremors stopped after 2.5 months. went back to playing the violin because the pain isn't there and behold, the pain and tremors went back after a week. so i took another 1.5 months break and played the violin again but was too lazy to put the SR on and went through pieces i can still remember. it was less comfortable but realized that i can play longer without the usual pain without the SR on. this went on for a week and i put the SR back on but I now had it on the lowest setting. That's when i realized what happened almost 6 months after the pain and tremors started -- that I had my SR setup wrong and i thought i had a long neck but it doesn't mean i need to set my SR to fill the entire gap. I don't blame my online teacher because there's no way she could detect that issue, given the camera angle and low resolution webcam i have during lessons.
Thanks for commenting and sharing your story. I’m happy that there is finally something that works for you. There will always be tension, but the question is how do we RELEASE tension while we play. It took me a while just to understand my own body and how I should play without feeling pain. Every body is different. I’m glad you found something that works for you. Thanks being a part of the conversation!
@@erictheviolinist Good job on bringing up the issue that SRs set up too high can possibly cause injuries. Another thumbs up for telling people to go to an expert to have their SR height checked. This is a must for for those who've only done online classes (tingling sensation on the fingers that you mentioned is something people should look out for as a sign).
Super helpful video. I think the tendency is to everything so high that you lack mobility and have your violin off the collarbone. Best to have the shoulder rest only fill in the space between shoulder and collarbone and have your head take care of the holding.
I’m glad it helped! Thank you for watching and being a part of this community :-)
I have a Wolf Forte Secondo shoulder rest and a Wave I chin rest. The shoulder rest is fully extended on the left side. The chin rest is 1 1/4" tall. All I have to do is simply rest my head on the chin rest and the fit is perfect. No tilting or pressure is needed to hold the violin in its proper location. For all intents and purposes my head is completely upright. I have a short neck and was buying short chin rests. However like you the distance from collar bone to chin is longer than what I thought. It took me awhile to figure that out. With the Wave I and the Forte I now am finally able to play without having to deal with any unnecessary tension. The take away here is just because someone may have a shorter neck doesn't mean they need shorter rests.
You make a great point. It's understanding the distance between your collar bone and your jaw line to help you get a comfortable fit. Thanks for watching and being a part of the community!
I use a Kun collapsable (the original won't fit in my case) and a Wittner Augsberg centre mount chin rest. I have had this set up for less than year, but its the most comfortable I have been. My viola set up is the same!
Great! Yes, the Kun collapsable is a game changer. I'm glad you like the Wittner! Thanks for watching and commenting on the video
Really like your videos...great information. I began lessons in July of this year. To date,
I have never been able to "get comfortable" while playing the violin.
I have tried sponges, different shoulder rests, different chin rests, cloths, etc., so many different combination of "things". No matter what, I am still not comfortable.
My neck and left arm tire quickly after 2 minutes of practice. My arm feels as if I have been holding a 20 pound weight on my left shoulder. I have to stop and take a "break" before I can continue my practice session.
My chin always moves to the tail piece (actually resting on it) no matter what. That too is tiring....I feel that my chin is constantly "gripping" the violin (similar to a pair of pliers).
Lastly, because I have not found the idea position, my violin tilts a great deal. I am constantly trying to adjust the instrument and my my body. Needless to say my "bowing" is off as well. I practice daily in font of a mirror. My sessions are sometimes 2 hours but most of the time is spent "adjusting", trying to get comfortable. Somedays, it is quite exhausting.
Quitting is not an option. I have waited such a long time to begin lessons on the most beautiful instrument in the world.
Any suggestions??
Thanks for watching and commenting on the video. Your story reminds me when I was in my late teens experimenting with difference chin rests. It sounds to me that you're experiencing a lot of fatigue before you can get to the core of your practice.
Have you considered experimenting with different chin rests and posture? One issue I find with students is that their heads move to forward onto the instrument which creates more of a strain on your neck and spine than you think. I tried many chin rests and because I thought I had a neck, that led me to believe that I will need a tall chin rest. Boy, was I wrong.
I think it helps to experiment with the chin rest and shoulder rest combination. Let me know if that helps.
@@erictheviolinist Thank you for your comments. I will try all of your recommendations. Once those issues are solved, I can make progress and really enjoy my practice sessions!!
@@christineruderson9356I hope this is better for you now. Two hours, wow, I never last that long. I also play the ukulele and the banjouke, so I can switch off. There’s a Brit named Andy something who plays fiddle and banjouke too. He’s really good at it. My bestie switches from ukulele to flute to harmonica so she never tires of either one.
Tingling fingers is the combination of the shoulder rest and chinrest hindering your blood flow to your arm and fingers.
I thought that too at first, but it could be a nerve problem so I would recommend getting it checked if the issue persists
i use a everest shoulder rest. but i’m thinking i may need a change. i have very narrow shoulders and am not sure what would be good for a petite female.
My shoulder rest (KUN) keeps sliding off and down my shoulder onto my chest when I play. It rolls off my collarbone. I can't find a remedy for this, so I'm taking it off. My violin is 150 years old Maggini model, it is slightly thicker than my student violin, and I'm not sure it fits in the space I have below my chin
I'm not too tall, broad nor have long arms. The lower the shoulder rest is, the better it is for me. I also use it only for the a gle, not the hight.
Many years ago , I broke my collar bone. My left side slants I tried a shoulder rest but it wasn't comfortable and I somehow I use and sometimes I don't. I am glad I came across your video. I have been playing for more then a month . Any advice?
I had a separated right shoulder many moons ago. The surgeon said I was probably done playing the fiddle. I gave up. Now, I’m a new beginner, trying again. Sure, the arm gets tired, but I don’t have fits of pain in it like he said I might. I do stretches before and after playing. And if I feel pain, I stop, and maybe come back to it later.
Thanks for your insights Eric.
What's your argument to those who insist on not using a shoulder rest? They claim that way their violin resonates freer with bigger sound. In theory that may be true, but I feel comfort is priority. Agree?
If I follow my ideal philosophy of simplicity and simplify by ditching the shoulder, then I'll be fussing with experimenting with the right chinrest or some pad......Which actually defeats the purpose of simplicity.
That’s a great question. It’s certainly a case by case basis. Many violinists who have shorter necks (Perlman, Zuckerman, Stern, Heifetz) tend to play without shoulder rests. I have many friends who are not the same as they once used to be due to nerve damage with bad technique and setup. That’s something you don’t feel right away, but can damage you over time. My philosophy is, if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. If a shoulder rest works for you, great. Hope this helps!
My philosophy is that if I ditch the shoulder rest for the ideal of simplicity, I don't want to be modifying some special chin rest or fussing with sponge pads or some shit. Because that's not really simplifying, and I might as well be using a shoulder rest.
@@erictheviolinist
My philosophy is that if I ditch the shoulder rest for the ideal of simplicity, I don't want to be modifying some special chin rest or fussing with sponge pads or some shit. Because that's not really simplifying, and I might as well be using a shoulder rest.
Agree?
I’m an adult beginner. My shoulder rest is as low as possible but it it really hurts my muscles. I have practices this week without it and am wondering if that will be ok- to not use one?
Also, I have a very short ne k- almost none. Please help
@@cindysmith5469 If you have a short neck, playing without a shoulder rest may work. For a little extra comfort, try using a circle sponge that's light. Let me know how that works!
How about playing without a shoulder rest.
True about the neck, but the same must be said for the left shoulder. It seems to me that you lift your left shoulder too much.
I do lift it little, but I always make it a point to release that tension whenever possible.
I have tried everything. Still uncomfortable
Well if you’re new, it stays uncomfortable for a few years
It's getting better for me I tried all kinds of shoulder rest I just always keep going back to Everest. I tried high and low and I prefer low even though I'm five-ten with longish n neck. I've tried lots of chin rest to go along with it but I keep going back to the basic side mount
Mine is actually too low. I'm watching these videos to see how high it needs to be.
I hope it helps
No, mine is too low.
Talk, talk, talk... only a few seconds at the end where we learn what to do.
Just don’t use one