BUSINESSMODEL GONE WRONG! - Gaijin's Folly - War Thunder!
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
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Businessmodel gone wrong, Gaijin's folly.
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Hey guys, so all hell has broken loose in regards to the economy changes and the slow squeez that Gaijin has applied on the rewards we get for our performance. But there's more involved, it was last push that opened the floodgates, the spark in a bunker full of fireworks. Finally the frustration build up over the past years has been unleashed and ppl are Angry. And justly so. I hope you enjoy the video, let me know in the comments what you think of the situation! And also Like, Share and Subscribe if you havnt yet. There's a lot more to come. Also, check the description for a link to my discord, its a great place to hangout and discuss the current affairs in War Thunder! Have a good day! o7
Sorry, I can't listen to your comment calmly . How long do you think the grind should be without/with a premium account for Gaijin to be okay? How many hours of play? do you even know how many vehicles there are in the game? 667 tanks and land vehicles, 47 helicopters, 849 planes and 234 ships - 1797 in total. Is it fair to get one a day? Will you be satisfied? that's 5 YEARS OF GRINDING anyway. And you know what's the funniest? THAT THIS IS DATA ON THE NUMBER OF VEHICLES FROM... 2020
Someone can't play and cries that they can't have new vehicles? SERIOUSLY? And what will he do with them if he can't use them? BTW most RB players have no brains.
Almost no one falls for the energy trap set for AB, apparently they watch your videos on YT more often. I also watch to be a better player, if someone doesn't care about it, they just want to have planes, then maybe start with a collection of beer cans - it will be easier
@@Wujek_Dobra_Rada How long have you played? how many hours do you play per day? and how good are you? Because pretty much the whole playerbase except you agrees that the rewards we get have been cut time and again by gaijin. All good wagers have been halved, and GE wagers were removed, the x5 and later the x2 were removed. And so on. There's a list of player benificial rewards, on reddit, that were removed over the past few years. where you used to get 50-60K sl for a good active 4 kill match, now you get 17-23 sl for that same match. For very good players there's still profit to make, but for above average plyers with a 1/1 k/d ratio and below, its almost impossible to earn SL and its extremely slow to progress. The short of it is, you're in the extreme minority with your opinion. And i think you're wrong.
wt should always focus on retention because thats the purpose of f2p model
@@jengar6258 Do you seriously think that a K/D ratio greater than 1/1 is some sort of championship? do you practice magic on your channel inaccessible to the little ones, or do you just show how to use simple game physics? A good game is one where you have to go beyond the screen, and learn something to be good at it. If you learn something about life by playing a stupid game, there is no better education. This is the case with WT, and even though you teach the game, but now and at the same time you reject it yourself, "don't learn, don't give a fuck about it: and you'll get it" Because the company that runs this game is supposed to be Mother Teresa, Santa Claus. And that's the lesson from this strike: Gaijin just took Steam off the partner list, I bet WT will disappear from Steam. In a few months it will affect the number of new players, you will go back to waiting 10 minutes to play. And that will be the real price of those few more SLs, because Gaijin won't give you anything for free that will disrupt his business model. Because it is a normal capitalist company existing in the real world. I calculated for you that a fair grind without paying will last 5 years: for the entire game. Why didn't you address it? And if someone wants only planes, and only German ones? he doesn't have to pay for a server in your area because there are 70 planes in the german tree, about 2-3 two months of playing. Why pay for anything here? And I'm not interested in bombers, poof! and I have discovered a whole tree in a month. What will Gaijin do then? will introduce a subscription - how many people will pay these 10 euros a month so that you have something to make films about? I spent most of my time in WT playing on a small Norwegian island, they didn't hear about fiber there, but I had a server close enough that I was able to play WT at this end of the world. Because someone bored with arduous progress paid this server with a premium account. If there are fewer such people, you will also get less from Gaijin. I don't care that I'm in the minority. It's common knowledge that most are stupid.
@@darugdawg2453 they've decided to another approach ;)
I remember the times when one could get 200-300 000 credits on a single good match in a BV in arcade with boosters. I really fail to see what would be so harmful to the game if they simply removed repair costs or doubled the credit income. People still would have to play the game a lot to unlock upgrades and new vehicles, but they wouldn't feel like they are being punished to play the game.
Agreed Pola, good to see you btw, havnt seen you in the comments in a while! o7
2 of the best ways to get money is using an sl booster and then activate an aaa order right before you dive on a few enemies it has made me 3-400000 many times for 3 or 4 kills. also best squad wager in arcade with a decent squad mate and just stay within 2 km of each other and get a few kills and you will always win best squad do that 10 times and it's 250k plus the money you earn in arcade so about 500k after 10 matches
@@jaybabe7767 good tips, but still you dont always have an sl booster or that particular order ;)
@@jaybabe7767 Explain that process to the new players. I don't think players should need to do order gymnastics to make positive income.
@@jengar6258 yeah your right. we need a competitor like you said. someone to make gijain compete for players. I love this game I have also spent thousands not for progress but just for unique planes and skins. I want it to be better but it will never happen without a competitor. old timers like you and me will play it because there is nothing else like it and I don't have issues for progress or money bc I am halfway decent but it's sad everyone I meet and play with on lile war coms play for a week or two then I never hear from them again because they can't afford 70 dollar planes and premium time. if you contact then directly along with other big names like dyfn and phly daily maybe you could convince them. please also ask them to fix 20mms for God's sake they feel like British 7mms right now
I used to play WT. It was basically the only game I played for months. I got to the point that I could usually get one or two kills per fighter plane in arcade mode. In realistic, I could at least deal some good damage before going down and it wasn't uncommon to get a kill in Realistic. I considered myself to be able to at least not be a hindrance to my team, if not actually benefit to my team.
But I quit shortly after China dropped. I just couldn't take the grind any more. I would be grinding on a single plane for over a week before unlocking it. And then the new plane would be at a higher BR, yet its stats are worse than my old plane cause it needs to have upgrades researched and unlocked.
I also initially really enjoyed playing bombers and attackers. However, whenever I ended up in a Capture the Airfield type game, my lineup was virtually useless. Plus I noticed how expensive the repair costs on the higher tier bombers would be and I quickly realized I would run a high risk of losing SL playing bombers. So I had to switch to fighters exclusively.
The final straw was when I got into Germany's air tree. I was just three planes away from unlocking the Me262. But I then noticed I had to have like 4 or 5 planes unlocked in my current tier to be able to start grinding the Me262. So I started grinding up the FW190 lineup which I had made some progress into. But then I realized that would still leave me one plane short. Which means I would have to grind up one of the bomber or dive bomber lines, lines which I had not even touched yet. I realized it would be at least a couple months of grinding before I could start trying to unlock my first jet. I looked everywhere I could to see if there were ways to speed up the grind. And I got two answers. Buy premium time or buy a premium plane. Now I might have actually been willing to do that. But the vehicles would have costed at least $20 irl. If I am gonna spend that, I am getting a new game altogether. And premium time is like $10 a month IF you pay for a full year. But my PS Plus membership is only $5 a month if you buy a year subscription. If it was maybe $2.50 a month, I would have done it. But $10 a month is outrageous, especially if I wasn't convinced I would want to play the game for a whole year if the grind was still to much with a premium account.
Because of WT free to play model, I assumed all free to play games would be like this. But I eventually gave two more a try. Dreadnought and Planetside 2. And you know what? The grind in those games is not bad at all. I can unlock the highest tier ships in Dreadnought in one day of grinding. And In Planetside 2, I could earn the points to unlock a new gun or new piece of equipment in a few hours of normal gameplay if I played on the weekends, or a few days during weekdays when the server populations are low. So I know for a fact free to play games don't have to be this unbearably grindy in order to produce a profit. They can be genuinely enjoyable too.
i can imagine they can be enjoyable. I still find WT enjoyable as well, because i love planes and they briliantly give you the feeling that you're actually flying, while using M&K. But with a different businessmodel gaijin could make it ten times more enjoyable.
Thats a perfect way to put it Jengar. A frustration based buisness model. Its honestly evil, this game could be so much more and make way more money then they are now by just rewarding instead of punishing. The greed has gotten disgusting and im glad that you speaking out about this stuff. Love the videos keep up the good work.
yeah man, it could indeed be much better and the playerbase could have been many times bigger had they done that. o7
You're spot on. The reward system works perfectly fine for those who have an above average KD ratio. You gain SL and XP very easily, period. That's just atrociously unfair for beginners, average players and those who likes to play bombers/attackers.
its worst for them, and mediocre for us above average, good or excellent players. It used to be way better.
@@jengar6258 really u kill 8 thanks being the best player in game and loose silver..... because of repairs? only one simple way to fix this cancel repairs. let the players play
i have an above average KD and I still find it ridiculous to score an ace and 2 assists on F-5C with premium account and only get 50K points of research.
Nah man i vor 5 Kills with the f8u2 and got Just 4.k RP and 28k sl with Premium Account. Fuck this Shit.
That is why is full of cheaters, game is not worth
I'm a newer player who is probably about average at the game. On good or decent planes I can get a positive K/D, especially in lower tiers. However, I've already run out of silver lions multiple times from buying upgrades or new planes. And that is when I'm using a *good* plane. I started my grind in America, which as you say often is a tree filled with planes that require patience, set up, and decision making. Trying to learn these things in 5 minute matches where I die to the first person that gets to me because I'm using a new plane I like in real-life hurts a lot, especially when I get back to the hangar and see that that one bad game, which lasted hardly any time, will cost me 10% of my silver lions to recover from. Or even good games can quickly be taken into negative silver lion range if I unlock enough upgrades, since shelling out 12-15k on a single game for upgrades is probably what I earned in that game.
make sure to join my discord. Flying with the guys will improve you.
Love getting pilot knocked out from the very first enemy salvo in your best plane... ooooooo sooo fun
@@wagonator1381 yeah, we've all been there mate.
I would love to see some kind of competition for this game
Would be good for Gaijin, keep them on their toes.
project wingman has gotten the mouse aim down, takes little time for your average war thunder pilots to get the controls down. although the physics is in its sorry state and the game mechanic is arcade like if not magical. think facing overwhelming odds with hacks
@@synblades598 Still no competition then ;)
They could have easily increased rewards and still make oodles of money by continually adding more vehicles, but they've gone the other direction and have finally sparked a revolt after punishing and frustrating customers for so long. I really hope that some serious changes are forced on the company but my prediction is that they will just wait for the mob to get bored and leave, then return to punishing monetization.
i hope you're not right. It would be shortsighted if they did that, they might come away with it at first, but once a well run competitor arrives they'll loose.
*_My saving grace is that I’m a warbird fan. I already have every vehicle I want, and have no interest in high tier gameplay. I’ve been floating around 90M silver lions for years now. I can imagine it’s pretty frustrating for people top tier grinding_*
yeah, and especially for beginning players trying to earn enough to buy all their new vehicles. Almost impossible.
I really have to thank you for this video. I'm very new to the game and really resented being forced to spend money so early, just to get by. Looking at how I'm supposed to get to the planes I want to fly - only rank 3 - I can see I'm going to have to spend more or grind a long time. It feels pretty pointless and hopeless. Not fun. I can already see i will quit the game for that. That fact, echoed by so many, betrays a truly stupid business model. You put it so well!
@@user-uh3xl4lv3t ty sir, it seems they apolegized, and promised a rework of the economy around 14th of june.
Do you think the cannon / gun nerf is also part of the SL nerf? I mean, less kills = less rewards.
Absolutely, you might be right. Hadn't thought of that, or maybe we're just getting paranoid here hehe. But seriously, i wouldnt rule out that it was a consideration.
@@jengar6258 If not paranoid, it's sneaky and slimey. Which is not unusual for The Snail.
@@TheCadman069 yeah, they could do so much better.
I don't think they will change their business model, there are many players who spend the money and have the sunken fallacy due to the money they spent. every new trailer they drop the people will be back to get the new vechs and try to obtain it. its just a entrapment and guilt trip
the hype machine is dead to me, but yeah, it still works on many ppl.
You can't grind a single line either.. once you go up a tear you have to unlock 4-5 other planes in that same teir to advance.. soo much grindd
yeah true, that makes the process extra difficult.
At this point it isn't about the SL. It's about sending a message.
agreed!
Wow. Russian and Western communities are acting together. I thought it was impossible on any matter anymore)) There are tons of shit happening among russian players as well on these changes.
gaijin took it a bridge too far ;)
The last time I played WT was in January 2023 (I poked my head in the game to see if anything had changed -- no, it hadn't). Before then, there was a 10 month gap in not playing WT. I'd been playing WT close to 10 years.
I tried IL2, which I don't mind a flying an actual sim, as I've the gear for it, but I don't play it often because IL2 involves a bit more time and involvement than WT RB. I tried WT SB, but again, the rewards system is fucked up to the point that I don't want anything to do with WT.
DCS is a big no for me...I don't want a 10 min flight start process or any of that other filler. If I wanted that, I'd get a pilot license.
So, I've been getting my flight-on with VTOL VR and IL2 (when I've the time for IL2). The longer the devs screw around, the less chance of me coming back to WT. What they typically do is fix something (heavy emphasis on fix) at the cost of something else, seemingly for spite. They'll give but take something back in return for giving. They're legit afraid of giving even little things. I've never seen such a greedy game dev company ever and I'm 55 years old. I have little faith that they're going to fix things.
i have my scepticism as well, but i have a little hope, the backlash atm is huge, and ppl are determined. All the frustration of the past 10 years is comming out. i think gaijin might be a little bit worried.
They really should open up the ranks a little, like only have to unlock previous planes/tanks/ships in a row to continue to the next rank in that row instead of having to unlock 5 or so planes/tanks/ships in a rank to unlock next rank. Things get very expensive in sl to buy equipment in the higher ranks that your just not gonna use/play.
yeah agreed, that would be a good change.
I definitely agree Jengar well said. Gaijin needs to change further player community for sure! I've been looking back and had more fun and awards in the past for doing good. I'm strongly against a grind for the Newer player base because I would like them to enjoy the Warthunder like I have. I hope they fix it. If there's any new players that just joined Warthunder and you want to fly with me hit me up. I'll help you out if you want. Have a great day and great video Jengar keep up the great work!
Let's hope they do! good stuff on wanting to help newer players btw! o7
I haven't played WT in years, but it sure seems like some things never change; these are all basically the same reasons that I stopped back then and, if anything, they seem worse now. Reminds me of that interview long ago now where a couple of Gaijin people were asked why there was so much grind in the game and they responded that the grind was the whole game. Anyway, for those of you still flying, good luck and good hunting o7
Thanks courtney, im wondering though, if they make a complete 180 on the businessmodel, go for player retention, more rewards and making gameplay better, would you return to the game?
Yeah, I think I would; I had a lot of good times and met a lot of great people in WT, if circumstances around the game legitimately improved then yes, I could see myself coming back.
@@jengar6258 no is full of cheaters
@@CoyoteCourtney okay, more ppl say this, i think Gaijin could earn back a lot of players if they made a genuine change.
my elder friend plays free to play and he got stuck at 10.0 br tanks and he only plays tanks and what a coincidence that he hit a wall at 10.0 where most premiums are
yeah, its not by accident ;)
It tells me that too many people are STILL running to buy a half ass premiums that comes around or goes on 'sale' .... We need a 'players Union' that can pull enough influence to make changes
we had the player council, but it was never used propperly.
This game makes me take year long breaks due to how hopeless the grind feels at times.
yeah, that gives them absolute trash player retention. it could be so much better.
was just 50k+ reviews removed from steam? Last time i checked there was 72k+ recent reviews and now there is 19k+
i dont know mate.
Like they say, “The nail into the goddamn fking coffin”
maybe, i still hope it'll be the landmind that pushed Gaijin towards a new businessmodel, based on playerretention.
@@jengar6258 The only thing that stopped me from playing the game is the economy. So if they fix all that, then im more than happy to come back.
@@may_12521 fair enough
You speak the truth. I'm taking a break for at least a year. It seems like such a time drain now.
Well, i understand, but i personally wouldnt stop with giving critical feedback towards gaijin. I wont stop playing unless a good competitor arrives.
it happened in world of tanks and it pissed so many people off, i never went back to it. greed
greed is the worst vice.
I am really suprised that people still play the game even with the company low balling and making the grind more and more hard. Its kind of a awe moment that the community is striking now than before. After all the low balls towards the community they still want to lower it.
I am really glad that I left the game early before these happened. Good luck to everyone else
ty sir! o7 maybe they'll repent and you can make a comeback!
I left out of protest over the war in Ukraine, but I do miss flying in WT. I always thought Gaijin was going in the wrong direction in terms of their approach to the in-game economy though. They could draw in new players by easing up on the repair costs and giving out more reward points for individual matches. If things have gotten worse and players are leaving it doesn’t surprise me at all. I’m not sure if anyone has moved over to DCS but I’m getting ready to make the jump. I just need to get a Hotas flight stick and throttle setup.
The 26th is aiming to be a 2 week blackout of playing the game.There's wiggle room to maintain your login streak for those that care about it, but the important thing is not playing any matches for 2 weeks.
Ah, i was under the impression it would be a day, at least i heard that on my discord. 2 weeks is a long time, a bit ambitious, the 26th alone would have been a reasonable start, doing another 2 days if they dont repent, and so on. I will honor the 26th and dont play, but I cant follow trough the whole 2 weeks. i have a squadron, a discord and a channel to maintain. And have a couple of weekends where my son is with my parents, and i finally have some time to fly. But anyway, i will advertize the action and support it as well as i can.
@@jengar6258 that's understandable. I don't think anybody really expects WT content creators to follow through with the full 2 week blackout. I know it will be tough enough for myself.
@@VenomVsTRex roger that! o7
I opened a chest for 1000 days for a decal I think, dont remember I know I uninstalled a week or so after that.
very dissapointing indeed!
I''ve played the game since Wings of Prey...I stopped grinding about 5 years ago..these days i log in only 1 or 2 times a week, play 1 game, maybe 2 and bail. Get this...I actually find, the rewards Wargaming give out in World of Warships much more satisfying so tend to put most of my valuable spare game time there. BTW...WG had one of these cathartic moments a year back and woke TFU! The grind in WT is painful! I'm glad i got most of the ww2 vehicles and planes i wanted plus a few jets. I'm so not interested in wasting gallons of time grinding a vehicle to play a tedious sniping, camping game of high tier RB...unbelievably frustratingly DULL.
yeah, fortunately for me, i also prefer the prop part of the airgame. That kinda saved me from the worst of the grind.
Good video as always. Do you happen to have a link to that Reddit page that lists everything Gaijin has taken away through the years? Thanks!
i dont sorry! im sure its still findable on there.
@@jengar6258 Ah too bad because I can't manage to find it either. I've been playing since 2013 and though I know a lot of things beneficial to players have been removed by Gaijin, I have the distinct feeling that I would still be surprised at how many if I saw the list....
@@Taxandrian You don't get points for taking off/landing anymore.
You don't get points for being in combat/dogfight with ennemies around you anymore.
You don't get points for ricochets anymore.
You don't get the daily x5 anymore.
You don't get the daily x2 anymore (that used to be x5)
They gutted the gains multiple times.
They added a soft lock to how much gains you could make in a single mission.
They gutted the missions from 55 minutes to 25 minutes max.
They removed gold rewards for completing tutorials
They removed gold wagers
They decreased gains from victories from 20% and added 20% to losses (this is bad for anying with a positive win ratio)
They gutted sim rewards
They gutted the rewards linked to activity in battle
They ruined helicopter EC and made them even harder to grind
Made assists overall harder to get
The battle passes have 3 vehicles instead of 4, you can't just sell the first vehicles anymore without having to grind even more.
The time they tried to add additionnal paid consummables to the game
Neglected and broken single player campaigns (but they still sell them)
Rp and Sl boosters having an expiry date
The cap points scores are now divided between the people capturing it
Map bans not offered to f2p people
Wagers being nerfed
Overall bots problem never resolved or acted on
Removed APFSDS as starter shell
Introducing "RealShatter" that pretty much broke all small caliber canons
"FREE" xp being anything but free
Middle map AA being broken (too strong) for months without any fix in sight
Removing low tier prizes from the summer event
Making assault arcade more difficult and never addressing the broken AI
Overall removing ground SB
And thats not counting the multiple economy changes they did over the last months/years.
Most game modes have barely changed since the beta days of the game, the gameplay loop makes it so plenty of vehicles are actually useless.
Nerfing "God Mode" rewards
You don't get any score for sitting on a capture point
You can't repair broken planes by landing at the airfield, and the game doesn't let you know until you're landed if you will be able to repair or not.
Put out premium vehicles (possibly OP) and nerf them down the line by uptiering them, changing them/nerfing them, and nerfing their % gains like they tried to do with the previous update
If you have other examples to add, please feel free to do so.
YOU STILL CAN'T TYPE 2 MESSAGES ONE AFTER ANOTHER WITHOUT THE GAME THINKING YOU'RE SPAMMING GOD DAMN IT
zero options to get 5 bush pack at all anymore
zero options to get a premium machine at a certain rank as a mission to do
zero options to use the "RP" pool without spending ANY money
the absolute fucking GUTTING of wagers, losing litterall thousands of USD real life dollars worth of value, its not just you lost rewards, you lost real life money equivalents
rewards of daily login are repitive, predetermined and most of the time is completely useless
adding map bans and not letting FTP players get that option
naval..
adding ATA missile dogfighting meta and not adding rewards for dodging or making the missile miss using flares or turning
contuinal adding of russian top tier machines even though the community is saying no more
not giving us the real data sheets of all the players and keep skull fucking us with the "that's not what our data says" bullshit.
adding a shit ton of more top tier premiums while also saying that it be to hard for people to use it, and NOT adding a gate so new players won't be able to just buy in (should cost more if that's the case)
Adding EAC, and has "very small" numbers of player bans
Not paying attention to the amount of fucking HOARD the HOARD the FUCKING HOARD of bots in naval and giving zero options to players to report them as a bot, they give complete FUCK ALL to naval and botting. we give them options how to fix it and they close it on the forums because it talks about bots, while also fucking the playerbase with "fun nerfs"..
not making reporting worth it at all... like do something as active as rust showing and telling you that X got banned in reporting and give rewards a shit ton of people will report, all you got to do is sign in the forum and (keep it hidden) do a NDA and an agreement to not lie about reports.. If naval players where able to help ban, more actively of bot users it be so much more increase of "how many people are banned in this X time" almost 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% of players in naval are bots unless you see something like iNavy as there clan tag.
Level 100 is still the max level
forum users losing the option to have custom pfp and signatures.
Dividing rewards for capping amongst players on cap instead of rewarding everyone equally.
Introduction of premiums with overpowered models and mechanics for sales and slowly nerfing them after those vehicles have overwhelmed their br for over 6 mnths
Introduction of premiums with overpowered models and mechanics for sales and slowly nerfing them after those vehicles have overwhelmed their br for over 6 months
not to forget different technical difficulties and mechanics where player looses sl for doing nothing wrong.
It's not a one day boycott. It's a 2 week blackout starting on the 26th May.
Ah ty for that clarification, i heard it on my discord, the 2 weeks wernt mentioned.
Yeah I thought it was a one day thing but thanks for that
I wonder if removing historical matchmaking is also part of their bad economy decisions?
For many ppl it is, but most ppl got used to it.
@@jengar6258 I miss the old days where it was allied vs axis, I'm kinda sick nowdays of having to fight japanese and italians with the Germans, I hope gayjin reverse those changes with all that backlash.
@@pedromedeiros4955 i hope so too, i also prefer historical matchmaking.
I've only played War Thunder for about three years... only because I can't play DCS on an old PC running Linux. I used to play iL2 1946 and before that I played Warbirds with a monthly subscription. Warbirds was the best. They had month long campaigns where you couldn't swap sides, no premium planes but rare planes were limited per day. It built teamplay and enjoyment. The worst thing about War Thunder is that you enter every game not knowing what you are up against, who you are flying with, and whether some pimple popper is going to team kill you and cost you the repair cost. It is an arena of cockroaches for the most part. And Gaijin wants money... I haven't spent on the game for two years because I don't support the lack of respect for those that put a lot of time into their game.
fair enough mate, i hope they improve the rewards to a point that the average player can progress again at a decent rate without premium.
They dont care it seems. I cant even name another developer with worse decision making skills. Broken timer, broken economy, broken vehicles, endless network dropouts and glitches, OP premium vehicles. Why do they hate their own playerbase
they've become soo greedy they lost touch with the playerbase. If they ever had it. I do remember the x5 to rewards for one match for every nation.. every day. Those were good things. They took them away though. Unfortunately.
What I find hilarious is I've never been short on SL, maybe slightly when I started at the beginning of 2018. But last night I got my 3rd (maybe 4th) 1 million SL daily spin reward. Why can't they give it to the people who actually need it😔
fair enough, does sound like you're an above average player though.
Thank you for covering this
np mate! o7
My last match ...1 air kill ,8 ground kills,9 assists,99 % activity, hits 57, 9 crits ... 1st place ,moron team so loss ...50.941 lions ..5 k rp ... - 23 000 for repairs of 2 vehicles ,one destroyed ,one damaged..no prmium or boosters ...new players have 0 chance to advance in this game once they move past 5.0 . They started fking with players waaaaay back in 1.29 ...somne of us still remember good old days.
yeah, we do. we need actions from gaijin now.
the only good change they have done is the generation of maps that came at the same time as the 25min change, the maps where with ai planes and soft targets for tickets. Which render the 25 min change redundant because it does effectively promote risk-reward tactical plays and players have more impact in contributing towards a win and getting rewarded for there actions(AI hunting, strafing soft targets for tickets). although far from perfect, it is a step towards the right direction. the average player in those maps do get more rewards than before so a moderate balance on the rewards is understandable.
problem is that they did not implement this change to all the maps so you still get maps that promotes passive plays and theres no telling which map you get next. meanwhile you get a reward cut for ALL your games, and it will be reflected by people dropping out of games, never bother to spawn in the first place because that map is not worth the flyout.
what really hurts for the grind though, is the tech tree + tier restrictions. either system is fine but not both. for example, in order to unlock the T2 in rank 6 japan, aside form the ki line you have to progress through both the zero line and the attacker line, that is at least 17 aircrafts you need to research aside from your ki line (unless you buy the premium sabre). I wonder how many people bought the premium just to fill that requirement. it is demoralizing players to progress into the game so dropping either tech tree or tier restriction should be in order.
thats one way to do it, i think reduction in researchpoints and costs and an increase in rewards would work better.
@@jengar6258 they could do both, to help players get to the br they wish to play faster, instead of getting them stuck in a br matchmaker that they suffer and grief their teammates in.
@@synblades598 yeah, doing both would be even better.
@@jengar6258 honestly a lot could be done to speed them on their way, just imagine all these players attracted by modern jets and got sick and tired at tier 2 and quit. another thing for them to take a better look at is the stock grind, especially for jets, imagine the disappointment you get for finally unlocking your jet but you are clubbed all over the place because you lack the essentials like missiles and countermeasures to be competitive
The content is woefully under utilized , on top of everything else. Same battle setups over and over, and my main interest , the historical campaigns , are rough ports from a previous game. I would buy a campaign every year if they developed them.
Good point yes, there's many other waus they can earn income then just premium and premium planes and vehicles.
Love your videos Jengar.
Thanks J! o7
First Thanks for video bro.
Second, as a 9+ yare WT player all I se is lower and lover avards for all aspects of game (crue points are one of those, that are completly stelth nerf for example).
And amout of vheicles is huge , I cant imagine how new player feel when he se that dem mountain of things he need to do and suffer thrue stock sindrom.
I love this game (especially flying part) but dem they have push greed to 11.
I em folowing a litle bit WTF is going with war gamig and their games , and frenckly I have feeling they share the some firm for monetary consultation , literally some whey of milking player base .
Well you will reap what you sow, and from what I can se storm is here 👍
aye, the storm has definitely arrived ;) lets see if it has any effect.
Hello! Hope you are doing well.
all good sir, ty!
You´re right mate. A other important point is the progress in the vehicles itself, not only in the trees. I mean why the hell you need almost 500.000 RP for all modifikations on a F-16 for example or a other topend-jet. On tanks its not that different. Especially if you hold in mind that in hightiervehicles some very important modifikations (missiles and countermeasures in jets and FPE and repairtool in tanks at all ranks) have to be researched. You need to buy or to suffer trough that modifikations to make a vehicle usefull. Thats a other big shame in my opinion that you have in the game. It makes the higher ranks for me so boring and i dont know why i should play them with that.
yeah indeed, i forgot to mention that. I had it in my mind beforehand, but forgot during the making. I didnt make a bulletpoint for the video. Thanks for mentioning it! o7
Sure, I noted it several months ago)
With premium you will have X2 for lamps and just X1.5 for lions. So you will have to buy lions anyway.
Remember the days when you had a x5 to rewards for one match in every nation, every single day! Now who in their right mind takes that away? it incentivies playing all nations! I remember playing all my nations every day to get those x5's used!
@@jengar6258 looks like they are dreaming an economics where you initially suffer. And to suffer a bit less you should pay.
To just delete a game in this case appears to be an unconsiderable option for them)
And they are wrong IMO.
@@antonsis roger that!
I consider myself an average or maybe even slightly above average player, and I am getting 1-2 kills per match. I am forced to turn off automatic repairs and rotate the planes I fly to avoid the repair cost, just so I can save up some sl to buy the planes that I research. It's a real pain in the butt because I can never fly the same plane more than once if I die, unless I'm flying a rank I or II plane. It because especially bad with tier IV and V planes because the repair cost keeps getting so high. Some planes have in the neighborhood of a 20,000 sl repair, but I'm only getting 10k on an average game. The repair time on higher tiered vehicles can end up being like 2-3weeks which means that unless I'm willing to lose sl I can't play those planes.
and with those 1-2 kills per game you're way above average as a player. 0.80/1 K/d ratio is about average as i've understand it. Imagine what its like for below average to bad players.
It pretty much got to the point where I had to play an overpowered premium plane like the SU11 to get SL in a reasonable time for top tier planes. I should also mention that I don't have a negative K/D on my top 20 most used planes. Unfortunately, this is how they designed the economy in this game. Buy a premium account and use an overpowered premium vehicle. That's why I haven't played this game in 3 months. I hope others do the same so they change their ways.
yeah, lets hope so! would you return immidiately if they do a complete 180 on the businessmodel?
I think Gaijin's mistake with this whole situation is talking down to and blaming the players for this. If they would just back off some and realize that this criticism is coming from a genuine love for the game with the player base not wanting it to fail, which is a path it is currently heading down.
yeah agreed, lets hope they make the needed changes.
You made some good points. I think greed will catch up with Gaijin, the thing is new players won't spend money on the game to grind they will just quit instead.
yeah, they might, i dont know their numbers behind the scenes.
Well I know what I am doing on the 26th. Going to play world of warships yeah that game has problems too but I have always had fun in it
hehe yeah, seems i'll be working on rank III USA on the 26th!
I keep saying to wake me up when they add WW1 aircraft. That would bring me back and encourage me to spend, because that period in aircraft development would be FUN within the trappings of War Thunder.
i agree, i've been advocating that since 2017 ;) Which proves they dont listen to me hehe.
@@jengar6258 They could even make it a separate tab within a nation's given set of research trees, make a game mode specific to it that's covered by arcade, realistic and sim, and even host enduring confrontation through it. There's money to be made, and it would be fresh. Copies of vehicles would make sense, premiums could be whacky and interesting prototypes of the period, etc. It would work!
@@shadowchaser8786 it would indeed, everyone wants a red three dekker
The snail is gone we have too leave them alone 😢
i hope they listen to the feedback and change their way.
@@jengar6258 me 2
Yeah budday
o7
with nearly 5000 hours played over the years, i'm insulated from the economy nerfs. however, i can imagine for less experienced players who not only are learning the game but also have poor crew skills (which make a huge difference) the situation must be unsupportable.
reading reddit posts etc, my perspective of the situation has improved.
before "la resistance", i was only moaning about up-tiers in ground being annoying, or 25 min matches in air encouraging boring, lawn-mowing teams.
i never thought about it from the point of view of new players and hope the snail changes it's monetisation strategy to encourage player retention.
the game is remarkable in it's scope and ambitions, so it seems a folly to have a monetisation stragtegy based on frustration-based purchases and low player retention.
fingers crossed for the statement in june...
yeah agreed, they need to make a 180. it'll take more then a few tokenchanges to appease the playerbase.
I’ve played the game since 2013 in all different modes with air and ground RB and Sims and, honestly, I can’t endorse their company anymore. Their shift from giving the player base a unique experience to short term profit is not a new issue. I’ve uninstalled WT as it just feels too much like work these days. Hopefully, I’ll see you guys over in IL2 GB or Flying Circus. I wouldn’t hold my breath for Gaijin to shift back to something positive for the player base, they’ve been heavily taxing their own player base for far too long. It’s time they pay the Piper.
fair look at things, i'll strill give them a chance to redeem themselves.
I guess I'm just happy I played in the "glory days" even though I was a noob and thought "germany suffered". Wish I was better at the game back then.
yeah man, hehe, i remember those days as well. Lets see if the playerbase's pressure can make gaijin come to their senses!
Gaijin you greedy bastards!
roger that
BACK 8 yrs back - i played 14 hr day on weekends ... and 4 times a day i got a spin /and win stuff for that flags i played ! Now u win .. it includes all flags and all gamemodes. most the time its for a dam boat ! which i nvr play ! 1 br for older players is worst! new players need earn the rite to have a loade out crew ! real life- best pilot gets best plane! gaiii got it backwards 1 br !
I had 20 million silver lions when using premium, I stopped and now I have 10 thousand
damn, yeah, that difference is huge.
I was in your discord till I rage uninstalled the game and told a mod to remove me. The grind absolutely sucks and is discouraging.
well, if they repent maybe its time to come back ;)
@@jengar6258 oh, I plan on coming back. Would be great to play a match or 2 with you sometime!
@@GK_Squid make sure you join the discord!
I've played since 2012. 1.25-27 something like that. On that pc account, i have something like 70 million SL. Never had an issue. This was when you could trade in crappy gift cards for in game GE. Anytime i got a gift card i couldnt use, id exchange it for ge. Never had to pay for anything in the game.(besides a few gifts ive sent to people)
I played the ps4 version starting in 2019. I have about 70k SL. Obviously playing with a controller is garbage and very difficult to do anything in the game, only so many buttons. Ive had some Playstation $$ from surveys and rewards points from a gas station i frequent, so i picked up some of the premiums I didnt have on PC.
Ive always been an avid aviation fan, borderline obsessed with flying. So a lot of the premiums i have are absolute garbage vehicles. I just liked to fly them.
On ps4, i gave up trying to grind and mainly played bombers/naval.
The grind always has been extreme. I dont condone buying premium vehicles to try and supplement a tech tree grind, however, thats what they desisnged it for.
I like to reference Star Trek Online (before Cryptic was bought out). Everything for sale for real money, you could make in game. You would exchange a currency given by played the game(dilithium) into their premium currency(Zen). That is how a free to play game should be done in my opinion. Sure it took a while to save up, but at least ANYONE could do it and have most of the "better" or "rare" vehicles. I should mention these have changed since Cyptic sold to Gearbox.
I see both sides of the argument. They do have to make money, however, many items are extremely expensive in the long run. Battle pass, premium time, lootboxes, and premium vehicles are all in the game to make them money.
Its not hard to understand the economy is a basic spread sheet. Gaijin can try to pay it off as "very intricate" but its an excel spreadsheet my dudes....was doing those in elementary school 😂😂😂😂
All I can say is about damn time Gaijin gets gaijin'd. I used to submit bug reports and suggestions, only to get banned in the process for "inflamming the forums"....Go Fûck yourself Stona.
Over 3000 bug reports(total and after starting a new account, solely to post on forums ..a burner if you will) and I'd argue 2500 still in the game.
Thats why I dont support Gaijin anyting anymore. A garbage company who made a game that could be the best ever(in the genre), but they settle for suppression of information, ban hammer happy fůckwits(Stona and the like), and greedy owners.
End of rant.
Hope you are well amte, appreciate the videos over the years
yeah, many ppl feel the same, they never did well with feedback, even well worded, constructive feedback from long time players. It's a way of approaching things i've never understood.
Reward caps, reduced RP and SL rewards and repair costs have ruined the game. Thanks Gaijin for torturing your player base just because they like this game.
they have made it crimanally rough, i hope the current backlash can push them into a businessmodel change.
Whatever they do, the main problem ...the cause of all problems remains. No serious competition. That's the thing that causes all. And if i was the competition i would start from Korean War era and to modern times. Hit them where it hurts. For the most part, the ww2 era it's pretty viable in WT.
i play mainly props, i want competition there too ;)
I still like this Free to Play Acct that I have, and most of my nation planes are at Rank 3-4, but is it my imagination that the grind and silver lion rewards are crap nowadays? I played WT hardcore in 2017-18 to get all my Nation Ranked 4 easily, but quit due to time constraints and my gaming laptop crashed. I could never play Realistic Battles, with just barely getting by with 0.5-1 K/D, now enjoying my Arcade prop games at 5-18fps on an ancient PC (lower fps occur when all the planes have smoke or contrails).....lol
At my slow speed of obtaining more free planes, I will probably QUIT before getting one (1) JET.... (but let's see what happens in 10yrs, right?)....LOL
to play well in rb you'd need a new computer, agreed ;)
I uninstalled I'm done..I'll find another game
thats radical, but i cant blame you. Perhaps see what they do in the comming weeks before completely leaving. They may change their ways.
Gaijin must listen to the community & I suggest that they add PVE events with AI infantry for tanks & ground vehicles to attack & to have fun with because air has that chance so why not give it to ground vehicles too??!!.. Anyways thank u for standing up for community❤pliz give ground vehicles the same fun as air has.. even if it is just same low tier Air arcade ground strike maps.. just let us have the ability to take break from PVP & stop milking us by using PVP as excuse❤23/5/2023 pliz listen to me gaijin
Since u claim Warthunder is a realistic vehicular game then why can't we interact with AI infantry as ground targets.. don't use your regular +12 age excuse ..stop limiting fun for ground vehicles pliz gaijin u either give us this feature or u are wanting Warthunder to die..Thx to Jengar & other ContentCreators..
All that's missing is some ground targets & barrels & infantry AI for ground vehicles to shoot at... but gaijin & Warthunder are stupid cause they limit fun of ground vehicles while air has ground strike maps fun so why not letting ground vehicles of low br have same ground strike maps like air has???❤😂😂😂lmfao
Check me at Warthunder game player name: Alh_r12❤❤❤I've been playing since 2019 & I payed for premium vehicles only on low tier but I've never played or payed premium account at all.. my max is mig 21smt & T54 1951 cuz i play for fun❤❤❤🎉😂😂😂hh lmfao
Warthunder is good legendary game but just needs that extra fun to be allowed & freedom to spawn in any map for example if u want some solo fun by using a tank in air map
ty sir! we'll have to see where they will take it. They apolegized, now we need to see the followup action.
@@jengar6258 Thank u for all ur content & efforts❤✌
I want a bit lower price for planes there are 7900 RP/10.000 SL for a plane in rank 1 ? I'm new player, if I get 4 kills I'm the happier in the world! Yesterday I get 6 kills so 1000 RP+3000 SL, I was happy all day after.
yeah, they'll have to look at the progression, agreed.
@@jengar6258 Did you used boosters in the video War Thunder Arcade: Do-17 Z-7?
The big cashgrab they tried to do i belive is for the many problems in Russia right now, who knows this game may be sanctioned further on. 10% of Russian IT people have already left the country...........A take what you can when you can situation. Unfortunatly for Gajiin it blew up in their face this time. Hopefully this will teach them a lesson....
gaijin has managed the game like this long before the conflict. It has nothing to do with that in my opinion.
@@jengar6258 I know that very well sir, been in wt 7 years, and specially with no more allies vs axis, Battleratings are also a joke, and the oh so rigged matches if you fly certain nations. Game went sour and needs to be reset.
@@niclasplavinskis i hope they do come with a business model change. We'll see the first step on the 14th, as they said. I'm curious if they'll do more then a half assed step to appeace the community.
man peaople always saying "skill issue, skill issue" i just want to enjoy the game. but enjoying this game is so HARD. cant get UP from Tier 2. always playing low tier because of now SIlver Lion. just the same as WG game
yeah, i can imagine thats annoying.
Sadly its not JUST the economy. They entire game is designed to break the player base so that they will buy to not struggle. Maps, BR concept and game modes are all trash. I have 13 thousand hours in this game in 10 years and it has only gone downhill. PVE needs to be a MUCH MUCH bigger place in this game. There should be PVE modes to help teach every aspect of the game. Air RB is one of the worst concepts in my opinion. Sure you can leave it but call it Air arena and remove all ground targets. We need many many more game options. Sure you can argue that it will slow down ques or what not but even now i can join and quit a match for each team and still have a min or 2 to wait for the first of 10 nations to come of CD. I am a huge Cas player and yet no matter where i play my A4 i get bitched at for either bringing a ground pounder in air RB and im worthless or I go into ground RB and people cry that Cas is OP. Where is our PVE game mode that lets me play my CAS without getting some racial slur sent to me after the match for using my favorite jet properly. Where are our navel PVE matches. Convoy escort? Something like this could easily be used to help new players or just for those who dont want to get screwed by match maker EVERY MATCH. There are hundreds of options for them to make small changes and have it more enjoyable. What about the Air EC matches? THose use to be some of the most enjoyable game modes on the weekend where you have unlimited respawns and just had to play a little SL. In those you could go and do just PVE missions and maybe you did see a player and maybe you didnt. At no point did you ever fear that the money you spawn in you go hit by a F86 sabre while in a late model 109. Ya i know that didnt actually happen to that extent but Jets are just as bad now with a 1.0 bracket. The entire game needs a over hall built around players enjoyment not money making.
couldnt agree more!
Their change I hate the most other than match time is the reduced rewards for attackers and bombers
yeah the matchtime change was a horrible decision.
I totally agree and I feel like that’s why every game the whole team jumps on the first enemy they see. It’s so frustrating when people are friendly firing each other or stealing kills because gaijin wanted to speed up matches. It’s also extremely frustrating when you have five teammates and the other team has one but they win on tickets because they airfield camp
@@hucktn83 roger that, it encourages bad gameplay.
@@hucktn83 I also noticed because of the way fires often get put out now, kill stealing has increased a lot
@@paulvontarsus729 i get most angry when I spend time climbing and I’ve got a bomber on fire and suddenly a teammate comes zooming in to take my kill. The response is always the same “sorry I’m grinding sl “
LOL, history repeating itself, nothing new. Left this pyramid scheme years ago.
fair enough mate, if they make a complete 180 on the business model and focus it on player retention, would you return?
The gun nerf made me hesitate on playing war thunder but now I definitely will not play it. It won't be long before they nerf the 50 cal. I love your videos and thanks for recommending to play it again but Gajin only care about profit and believe it they do get it since there is players willing to give money. I will watch your videos but this is the end of WT for me.
we'll keep fighting for better treatment, rewards and gameplay, including gun damage.
I wish you luck Jenger. I was hoping to buy a pc and make youtube video about WT but I guess Genshin impact is a better choice.
Wait Gajin actually apologize when I checked google. Jenger keep us notified if they do actually mean it.
@@SonamGyeltshen-kw8xi maybe there's hope yet ;)
4 kills match 17k SL ...... 😢 ithink i got good stats, 3:1 ration Brit, recently 4:1 Us, wonder where it will get me
yeah, thats rediculous, we used to get around 70k a few years ago for a match like that.
with premium, without premium around 40-50.
I am about over War Thunder. I just renewed my subscription and the game immediately took another dump. If it does not go back to where it was several years ago I will not do it again. I do not want them to give us stuff I want them to not Indian Give AKA. China Deal me. I loved the game and every change has only made the game worse. I have seen NO improvement in what I receive for my account since the first day I joined. I might as well not pay and just play with what is free.
agreed, in the meantime they have apolegiesed, and have promised us big changes on the 14th of june. We need actions from them, lets see what they bring the 14th.
I stopped playin 2 years ago. Started in 2013. Played mostly Sim. Best decision i made for a long time. Game itself is good. But Bias, Balance and gaijins greed is unbearable.
would you be inclined to come back if gaijin would fix the economy and the progression?
@@jengar6258 Hey. Tbh i dont think theres a cure for WT. I liked the game itslef for the setting, the variety of planes etc. But for all these years the game never was balanced at all. So to have fun and win from time to time you were forced to use specific vehicles. And on top the economy made every loss feel so bad i got toxic myself sometimes. And i and probably many others had series of 30-50 losses i a row. I remeber making screenshots because i couldnt believe it.
And last but not least Sim is dead because gaijin stopped caring about the mode. If these things would change i d consider playing again. Not as much as i used to though. But i think nothing will change. I moved on to DCS and real life activities. I would suggest to do this too.
@@gerdbauer5211 yeah, fair enough, i also play much less then i used to. RL comes first.
Even now I got 5 kill game barly made 1000000 with premium the reward are not that maby when update hit it be better
25 minutes is still too short for realistic
agreed! i want my hour back!
Gaijin doesn't seem interested in player retention or making the game both fair AND profitable. Take, for example, how they handicap the joystick players. Playing with a joystick is a frustrating and unrewarding experience. You have to be a masochist to play with a joystick. It's part of the ever-shrinking community that they purposely ignore. You can't tell me that it's beyond Gaijin's capabilities to fix the joystick model. Think of how that would open the door for more players. So why don't they do it? For whatever reason, it seems that their top priority is not player-oriented so it must be a financial motive. I don't know how ignoring a segment of the player population is a good idea, except it seems to be in keeping with their current philosophy.
get as much money out of new players as quickly as possible seems the underlying idea.
You calling yourself "pretty good pilot" made me laugh for 10 minutes. Just kidding. Only 5 minutes actually. :P
i was trying to be modest you git ;)
I have at least 6 jets and many planes I have unlocked but cant afford to buy. The game is just such a ripoff now. Even if you buy a key and box it only gives BULLSHIT. Its not a player friendly game in the least bit.
roger that, they've got a lot of work ahead of them making the economy fair again.
I think I quit playing just before you did jengar haha, had been playing since i was like 12 all the way up till i was 20 or so.. have not gone back despite the game being one of a kind
understood, would you return if they do a complete 180 on the businessmodel?
I have played IL2 for many many years with HOTAS joystick and Track-IR with only cockpit view ... but my eyes are not what they used to be and in this sim it is vital to see your enemy first and not lose it out of sight when the enemy plane is vanishing below you due to good camo against the ground ... so I came to warthunder where you always have a marker on your enemy ... I like it and I still play it but the complaints here are justified ... I rarely play hightier planes or tanks because if you get killed the repaircosts are so rediculously high that it is no fun anymore ... well maybe they should fire their Jitzhak Greedovskys and Abraham Avarikovskys who are in charge for their business model and get some good people instead ... 😉... nice to see another Jengar Video though 👍...
ty sir, yeah, its still an enjoyable game, but we indeed need a new businessmodel.
@@jengar6258 ... thanks for your answer Jengar ... wish you a nice holyday weekend ... I guess in the Netherlands Pentecost is also a holyday ...
i just wish they would fox the 20mms they suck right now. it even frustrated me watching this video how many shots it took you to kill planes. that j2m2 should have been destroyed in that first burst. it makes so many planes unfun. i love yaks but the guns do fuck all spitfires are even worse. but Japanese 50 cals 1 shot anything but a plane with 3 20mms tickle it to death and you gonna hope for a fire or pilot snipe.
The way how aircraft cannons vs heavy mg´s perform in wt makes me question my understanding of ww2 air combat. Anyone who could put the cannons on the plane cause 50 is inadequate against bombers and yet you just need to tickle some bomber to kill it with long range laser beam that are 50s. Its not that cannons are shit but the difference is so large that i just have to assume this is done deliberately by gaijin.
yeah, they should revert that change as well, it wasnt a good change.
@Robert Kalinič many 50 cals are far stronger in the game right now than any 20mms like the Italian and Japanese 50 cals or the German and Swedish 13mms they hit so hard compared to shvaks or Hispanos. there is old ww2 footage of britian testing 20mms he rounds on planes and a single round fucks a plane up so why in the game do i need 50 rounds of Hispanos to kill a Japanese plane build out of bamboo and hope.
Its amazing to be making any progress at all with gaijin, while i dont trust gaijin with a cup of warm piss, the apology is a welcome change from being condescending and victim blaming us
its an important first step aye.