Hello from the P+ community, the cockroaches of the plat fighter genre: we live in your walls and we never die. From my own experience, you've more or less hit the nail on the head. I've helped build up a local scene from the ground up twice in the decade+ I've been playing and this is how I did it. 1. Be the biggest advocate for your game there is. If people don't see how passionate you are aboutyour game, they won't see it as worth being passionate, themselves. 2. Don't assume you're owed anything from the publisher. Instead focus on fostering local communities and support them. 3. Be willing to travel to meet with players in other cities and participate in their tournaments. This can help build a name for your scene and can even lead to holding joint events. 4. GO TO YOUR LOCALS. And if you don't have locals? Host them yourself. 5. Have locals regularly, preferably somewhere public like a game store, a coffee shop, or maybe even a church. These are the things that have helped me organically grow my own local scenes and connect with other nearby scenes. The fundamental building block of a grassroots scene is the local community, so building that first leads to bigger things down the line.
I wish I had kept up with PM and P+ more, because it's such a good example of the Brawl community coming to make something that they wanted to play too! It's so cool! But yeah, THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE, FOLKS. This guy gets me.
It’s a double edge sword I feel. It’s a hell of a barrier, but gave a damn good story to be told and built an incredibly strong community. I think it’s better that Nintendo was uninvolved
I'm not sure why some parts of this video came out extra crunchy but uhhhh I think it's because my AC broke ALSO TO BE CLEAR I DID ALL OF THIS BEFORE THE BIG BIG HOUSE ANNOUNCEMENT SO I'M SORRY MELEE FANS BUT YOU GUYS WILL FIGURE IT OUT LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO
I think passion for a game is what keeps games alive. After brawl released and some people moved on, some melee players kept on playing it because they loved it so much and stuck with it. I don't have arms currently but I really wish I did. The community seems really nice and the game looks cool to play.
Agree 100%: I think ARMS has two issues that result in that lack of passion: 1.) Looking at the Internet, no one really knows the scene exists 2.) There’s only really one biweekly NA tournament that exists. It is online, but when it’s broadcast nobody does a really good job of getting it out there. Hence 1. We fix those, we got competitive ARMS babyyyy
Thank you! That's more or less the plan, telling really good stories and persuasive arguments about things I enjoy. So that's going to be a combination of video essays like this one, and stuff from my livestreams that's kinda gonna be in... Like an alpharad storytelling format probably? Need to refine how I want to do the live stuff.
I think with proliferation of online gaming, the way communities develop has changed. Melee already had a strong foundation of players that would already meetup before its crises. Disagreements aside this is similar to how FGC developed. There was no option but to find someone to sit down with you, and that naturally drove community. It probably also helped that it's succesor Brawl was absolute shite. Now with online gaming, you want a game? You queue for a match. Multiplayer is easier than ever but multiplayer player doesn't mean community. Once you're done, you switch off & you're isolated again. You don't hang out with anyone, you don't stick around & cheer for the finals.
Hai there! Longtime ARMS community leader here! Thanks for the fantastic video! This is actually a pretty funny time for this all to be happening, as the active community has been in the midst of a pretty sizable conversation about what we want the competitive scene to look like moving forward! It's brought a lot of interest into the scene & we've been seeing a couple new events pop back up. ARMS NICE!
I once hosted a smash ultimate locals and I’m not kidding when I said that it took an entire year between making my first pitch to a venue and having the actual event. It got 19 turnouts and I lost close to $100 on the endeavor… would I do it again? Absolutely, everywhere within a 20 mile radius of me just sucks in terms of venues. I think if anyone is curious about hosting an event themselves, watch the Slapshoes smash video about Olympus 2015, because that’s everything a person should avoid doing in order to keep the event from going wrong
I have so much respect for TOs for any game. There’s so much hard work and money that goes into it. Learning that the hard way putting together a little online something for the ARMS community. ALWAYS THANK YOUR TOs!
FIZZI NOT ONLY BUILT A REPLAY SYSTEM BUT A SYSTEM TO RELAY REPLAYS TO A 2ND SOURCE FOR THEIR TO BE SPLIT VIEWING BETWEEN THE PLAYERS AND THE CASTERS AND EVEN THE PEOPLE WATCHING THE STREAM. THIS MAN IS THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST
this is why every other community is stupid if you love your game play it don't switch to the new game or give up on a game because daddy company isn't funding the game
The main reason why melee still is alive today is because all smash games released following it just are huge downgrades. It's not like with other franchise games we're new releases usually build on the old game and try to make it better. Nintendo intentionally wanted to create more "casual friendly" games which just doesn't scratch the same itch. And due to how brilliant melee is as a fighting game due to it's in game physics, there just us no competitor so the game just hasn't died yet. Another competitive game that was similar to melee in this regard is Counter Strike 1.6. It's very similar to melee being hailed as a GOATed shooter for very long. Valve released followup versions to 1.6 with Counter Strike Condition Zero and Counter Strike Source which can be seen as the "Brawl" versions of Counter Strike. Generally, most hardcore players hated these versions of the game and just continued to play 1.6 despite having inferior graphics and being a very old game (Just like with melee). The physics, hitboxes and spray patterns et.c. was just better, especially in competitive play. Valve however, unlike Nintendo, listened to their playerbase and rather than doubling down on making casually friendly versions of CS released Global Offensive. A version which went back to the roots of 1.6 and it's design in gun physics which was what the competitive scene wanted.
I don’t know that I would call Ultimate a definitive downgrade (the ruleset and stage list that developed over the years is bad tho) but I can see that for Brawl. Community is definitely behind melee because there’s nothing else like it. RoA is cool, but it ain’t melee.
I love your passion for arms and I hope it works out for you! The only reason I will never get into arms is because I already love smash and stopped playing it because of Nintendo, so the last thing I'd ever do is play another Nintendo game lol. Hoping rivals 2 does well or 2xko.
This video suffers from an unclear thesis statement. The title implies it will be about how to develop and maintain a competitive community, but that isn't really mentioned until the last few minutes. A video essay needs to present a clear central idea/thesis. Every part of it needs to work towards that central concept. There's some good points here. There's also some good, but not overblown jokes. It's hard to slip comedy into a video essay and still have it work, and the gags here work well. Overall, however, this feels a little too unfocused to deliver its points properly. If you haven't already, try presenting a script to a friend/editor, and getting feedback on flow and focus. With a bit more refinement, I see the start of a great video essayist here.
Yeah, that’s really my issue (among others) with this video too. I think I really time crunched myself too much because I’m dead set on doing this weekly, but I’m thinking I’m going to have to chill with that and relax a little bit. I was really happy to get this video uploaded, but not because I thought it was great. I do have a small group of people I do hand the scripts over to already, but I think providing them a more clear direction like this will help a ton. Thanks for the feedback!!
I'll level with you, I'm familiar with Leffen being an ass, and I vaguely remember the Has situation but not well enough to have a full opinion. I just remember it being not super great. If Has has changed, then yeah let's unban'em. Past that, no opinion because who tf am I to say
I have been playing melee for a long time, I met an arms player that wanted to show me the complexity of the game. I was skeptical but coming from melee I knew better than to disregard any game. TLDR learning arms basics was awesome but I remember the chick with the long blonde hair being way to busted
@@BrettWils It felt like I was trying to beat fox and he was just shining on me lol when I get a new Nintendo console I plan on retrying the game for sure. Melee is just easy to access with a modded wii.
For sure dude! Like, I definitely don't think ARMS is a solved game, there's still a lot to figure out. It would be such a different landscape if we didn't abandon it
Hell yeah brother, we still out here playing. This discord in the pinned post (not mine) is a great way to find friendlies, people to learn from, and tournaments
Yeah I gotta say when I was recording, and uploading, I didn't account for The Big House dying when I released the video. It's a bummer, but people will continue playing Melee. I have other thoughts based on that, but I'm not the guy to share those thoughts
It was supposed to be roots but this video got cooked so hard and I can’t even delete and reupload. The premiere project for it nuked itself off my computer, it’s a wonder I have this at all 😭
@@BrettWils Something tells me that decades later, the new rivalry will be [insert new challenger name] vs. Mango. (Not saying that Zain and Cody will definitely quit but we've seen M2K vs. Mango, Armada vs. Mango, Hbox vs. Mango, and now Zain vs. Mango which is so impressive) :)
Certainly. Tournaments still happen, people still play, and Mang0 is still the GOAT. So long as people are playing, that’s all you need man. Melee has had a history of ebbs and flows, current times aren’t that much different
To not be rushed in development, or else you'll end up with an unpolished game where people will use exploits you didn't mean to be there or be used as?
@@BrettWils "What every competitive game NEEDS to learn from Melee", that's the title; and by learn it means the developers learning, and I think they in fact, need to learn that, don't you?
Yeah, every game deserves to be rush and crunch free. Not the video we're talking about here though. We’re talking competitive communities, not developers and publishers.
Last video to hammer in the point, but not last video in general. When there's something to talk about, I'll be there, and I'm cookin up something big for everyone but that'll take time
Also here's the link for anyone who wants to get into the competitive ARMS scene okay thanks bye i'm going to bed bye bye discord.gg/AZpyHFU9EQ
This guy ain’t rat..
I'll watch any video glazing melee
On God
Hello from the P+ community, the cockroaches of the plat fighter genre: we live in your walls and we never die. From my own experience, you've more or less hit the nail on the head. I've helped build up a local scene from the ground up twice in the decade+ I've been playing and this is how I did it.
1. Be the biggest advocate for your game there is. If people don't see how passionate you are aboutyour game, they won't see it as worth being passionate, themselves.
2. Don't assume you're owed anything from the publisher. Instead focus on fostering local communities and support them.
3. Be willing to travel to meet with players in other cities and participate in their tournaments. This can help build a name for your scene and can even lead to holding joint events.
4. GO TO YOUR LOCALS. And if you don't have locals? Host them yourself.
5. Have locals regularly, preferably somewhere public like a game store, a coffee shop, or maybe even a church.
These are the things that have helped me organically grow my own local scenes and connect with other nearby scenes. The fundamental building block of a grassroots scene is the local community, so building that first leads to bigger things down the line.
I wish I had kept up with PM and P+ more, because it's such a good example of the Brawl community coming to make something that they wanted to play too! It's so cool!
But yeah, THIS. THIS RIGHT HERE, FOLKS. This guy gets me.
Dont forget #6.
Dont use wrong think outside of smash as a reason to ban players.
Where's your scene? It's awesome to hear other regions have one P+ TO/homie holding it down ❤️💪
@@t3amtomahawk Rural Texas our west of DFW.
"There's so much ARMS left to be played" hit me in the feels.
This melee fan is wishing you (and the ARMS community) well in growing!
I don't know how I could want to grass root the ARMS community and not yoink and twist from the GOAT 🥺 Thanks brother, I appreciate it!!
The biggest barrier for melee has always been Nintendo’s lack of support for (and at times their actively working against) the community
It’s a double edge sword I feel. It’s a hell of a barrier, but gave a damn good story to be told and built an incredibly strong community. I think it’s better that Nintendo was uninvolved
I'm not sure why some parts of this video came out extra crunchy but uhhhh I think it's because my AC broke
ALSO TO BE CLEAR I DID ALL OF THIS BEFORE THE BIG BIG HOUSE ANNOUNCEMENT SO I'M SORRY MELEE FANS BUT YOU GUYS WILL FIGURE IT OUT LIKE YOU ALWAYS DO
I think passion for a game is what keeps games alive. After brawl released and some people moved on, some melee players kept on playing it because they loved it so much and stuck with it. I don't have arms currently but I really wish I did. The community seems really nice and the game looks cool to play.
Agree 100%:
I think ARMS has two issues that result in that lack of passion:
1.) Looking at the Internet, no one really knows the scene exists
2.) There’s only really one biweekly NA tournament that exists. It is online, but when it’s broadcast nobody does a really good job of getting it out there. Hence 1.
We fix those, we got competitive ARMS babyyyy
You’re a good storyteller. Idk what your plans are with this channel, but don’t stop telling stories whether it be here or elsewhere. Good video.
Thank you! That's more or less the plan, telling really good stories and persuasive arguments about things I enjoy. So that's going to be a combination of video essays like this one, and stuff from my livestreams that's kinda gonna be in... Like an alpharad storytelling format probably? Need to refine how I want to do the live stuff.
I think it's time we get out there and lay down some-
HOLY FUCK HOW DID I NOT CATCH THIS HOW DID IT HAPPEN
this video got extra cooked by my not having AC I stg
I think with proliferation of online gaming, the way communities develop has changed. Melee already had a strong foundation of players that would already meetup before its crises. Disagreements aside this is similar to how FGC developed. There was no option but to find someone to sit down with you, and that naturally drove community. It probably also helped that it's succesor Brawl was absolute shite.
Now with online gaming, you want a game? You queue for a match. Multiplayer is easier than ever but multiplayer player doesn't mean community. Once you're done, you switch off & you're isolated again. You don't hang out with anyone, you don't stick around & cheer for the finals.
Hai there! Longtime ARMS community leader here! Thanks for the fantastic video!
This is actually a pretty funny time for this all to be happening, as the active community has been in the midst of a pretty sizable conversation about what we want the competitive scene to look like moving forward!
It's brought a lot of interest into the scene & we've been seeing a couple new events pop back up.
ARMS NICE!
Yoooo I was there for the backroom conversation, love the excitement I’m seeing. You’re about to see one more pop up in a few weeks ☺️ ARMS NICE
Melee is sick.
nods in approval while playing a ranked slippi match
Melee is also extremely entertaining to watch
I think that’s a big part of it now, but it wasn’t at the genesis of melee, because it wasn’t really an option
I once hosted a smash ultimate locals and I’m not kidding when I said that it took an entire year between making my first pitch to a venue and having the actual event. It got 19 turnouts and I lost close to $100 on the endeavor… would I do it again? Absolutely, everywhere within a 20 mile radius of me just sucks in terms of venues.
I think if anyone is curious about hosting an event themselves, watch the Slapshoes smash video about Olympus 2015, because that’s everything a person should avoid doing in order to keep the event from going wrong
I have so much respect for TOs for any game. There’s so much hard work and money that goes into it.
Learning that the hard way putting together a little online something for the ARMS community. ALWAYS THANK YOUR TOs!
1 huge thing outsiders kinda glance over with slippi is that THERE ARE NO REPLAYS IN MELEE FIZZI BUILT A REPLAY SYSTEM FROM THE GROUND UP
FIZZI NOT ONLY BUILT A REPLAY SYSTEM BUT A SYSTEM TO RELAY REPLAYS TO A 2ND SOURCE FOR THEIR TO BE SPLIT VIEWING BETWEEN THE PLAYERS AND THE CASTERS AND EVEN THE PEOPLE WATCHING THE STREAM. THIS MAN IS THE SECOND COMING OF CHRIST
Oh damn dude I forgot that, I think I got lost in what my research was saying specifically my mind dropped that fact
Good work on this one my good friend!!
Very proud of the work👌
Keep it up!!
Thanks my guy, making this video was so scuffed so I’m really glad to have it out so I can move on to the next one
i was watching this without knowing anything about it and assumed it had thousands of views. how does this only have 65
Because I uploaded in the dead of night Tuesday and I only have 925 subs ☺️
Melee is sick
this is why every other community is stupid if you love your game play it don't switch to the new game or give up on a game because daddy company isn't funding the game
YUP BIGGLIEST AGREE THE ONLY THING THAT MATTERS IS THAT YOU PLAY YOUR GAME
melee isnt surviving, its living
And it has every reason not to be. Yet, it persists.
matt deezy mentioned 🗣🗣🗣🗣🔊🔊‼‼‼‼
WE DO OUR HOMEWORK ON COMPETITIVE MELEE’S START ON THIS CHANNEL
The main reason why melee still is alive today is because all smash games released following it just are huge downgrades.
It's not like with other franchise games we're new releases usually build on the old game and try to make it better. Nintendo intentionally wanted to create more "casual friendly" games which just doesn't scratch the same itch. And due to how brilliant melee is as a fighting game due to it's in game physics, there just us no competitor so the game just hasn't died yet.
Another competitive game that was similar to melee in this regard is Counter Strike 1.6. It's very similar to melee being hailed as a GOATed shooter for very long.
Valve released followup versions to 1.6 with Counter Strike Condition Zero and Counter Strike Source which can be seen as the "Brawl" versions of Counter Strike. Generally, most hardcore players hated these versions of the game and just continued to play 1.6 despite having inferior graphics and being a very old game (Just like with melee). The physics, hitboxes and spray patterns et.c. was just better, especially in competitive play. Valve however, unlike Nintendo, listened to their playerbase and rather than doubling down on making casually friendly versions of CS released Global Offensive. A version which went back to the roots of 1.6 and it's design in gun physics which was what the competitive scene wanted.
I don’t know that I would call Ultimate a definitive downgrade (the ruleset and stage list that developed over the years is bad tho) but I can see that for Brawl. Community is definitely behind melee because there’s nothing else like it. RoA is cool, but it ain’t melee.
I'm happy that at least someone is talking about arms.
I’m out here tryna do what I can brother 😮💨
Melee is beautiful to watch, even as a casual spectator
100%. I’m absolute dogwater at it, but love to watch
Melee can’t be replicated it was born in an age where people had to go outside.
Love the carrots shoes
They’re my go tos, I am the king of casual
I love your passion for arms and I hope it works out for you! The only reason I will never get into arms is because I already love smash and stopped playing it because of Nintendo, so the last thing I'd ever do is play another Nintendo game lol. Hoping rivals 2 does well or 2xko.
I do it not for it working out for me, but for the community 🫡
@@BrettWils love the passion and dedication and hope the best!
Tournaments just really hate Smash.
oh poopyhead its nice seeing you again
Legit from the name i genuinely thought you were gonna talk about like, melee weapons in TF2 or something xD
I was unqualified for this video, I’m TRIPLE unqualified to talk about TF2 lmao
Dude you make pretty good videos. Not a fan of Arms, but I’ll definitely watch more videos 😊
Thanks! I have more stuff coming soon, just have a large project I have to put a bow on!
This video suffers from an unclear thesis statement. The title implies it will be about how to develop and maintain a competitive community, but that isn't really mentioned until the last few minutes.
A video essay needs to present a clear central idea/thesis. Every part of it needs to work towards that central concept.
There's some good points here. There's also some good, but not overblown jokes. It's hard to slip comedy into a video essay and still have it work, and the gags here work well.
Overall, however, this feels a little too unfocused to deliver its points properly. If you haven't already, try presenting a script to a friend/editor, and getting feedback on flow and focus. With a bit more refinement, I see the start of a great video essayist here.
Yeah, that’s really my issue (among others) with this video too. I think I really time crunched myself too much because I’m dead set on doing this weekly, but I’m thinking I’m going to have to chill with that and relax a little bit. I was really happy to get this video uploaded, but not because I thought it was great.
I do have a small group of people I do hand the scripts over to already, but I think providing them a more clear direction like this will help a ton.
Thanks for the feedback!!
Early congrats on 1k.
Thanks my guy, these final 6 are agonizing ;-;
We got’em
@@BrettWils - Let's GOOOO. ggs
Ok but let's unban Hax$
yeah I don't know about that one boss
@@BrettWils and leffen gets to play a game he doesn't care about but also has a history of being an asshole?
that the entire FGC hates with great reason?
I'll level with you, I'm familiar with Leffen being an ass, and I vaguely remember the Has situation but not well enough to have a full opinion. I just remember it being not super great. If Has has changed, then yeah let's unban'em. Past that, no opinion because who tf am I to say
@@BrettWils cool :p
Melee4life
I have been playing melee for a long time, I met an arms player that wanted to show me the complexity of the game. I was skeptical but coming from melee I knew better than to disregard any game. TLDR learning arms basics was awesome but I remember the chick with the long blonde hair being way to busted
Yeah man a good ribbon girl is scary in the air. ARMS is surprisingly deep when you give it a chance
@@BrettWils It felt like I was trying to beat fox and he was just shining on me lol when I get a new Nintendo console I plan on retrying the game for sure. Melee is just easy to access with a modded wii.
For sure dude! Like, I definitely don't think ARMS is a solved game, there's still a lot to figure out. It would be such a different landscape if we didn't abandon it
I still have my arms copy. Id be down to play it again.
Hell yeah brother, we still out here playing. This discord in the pinned post (not mine) is a great way to find friendlies, people to learn from, and tournaments
You say this but the big house just died lmao
Yeah I gotta say when I was recording, and uploading, I didn't account for The Big House dying when I released the video. It's a bummer, but people will continue playing Melee. I have other thoughts based on that, but I'm not the guy to share those thoughts
For the algo!
THAT'S MY BOY!
Lay down some... What?
It was supposed to be roots but this video got cooked so hard and I can’t even delete and reupload. The premiere project for it nuked itself off my computer, it’s a wonder I have this at all 😭
Long live Melee. 🙂 Melee is sick.
I hope Melee keeps going so I can see Mang0 win a major at age 60
@@BrettWils Something tells me that decades later, the new rivalry will be [insert new challenger name] vs. Mango. (Not saying that Zain and Cody will definitely quit but we've seen M2K vs. Mango, Armada vs. Mango, Hbox vs. Mango, and now Zain vs. Mango which is so impressive) :)
That would be so insane but so neat to see if it happened
I don't want to beat a dead meme horse but the hub of the Arms community would be in Ohio.
And we love LOSER and Frosty so much for what they do in that Ohio ass state
Is Melee really surviving?
I started watching 6 years ago, and I gotta say were a dead scene compared to then.
Certainly. Tournaments still happen, people still play, and Mang0 is still the GOAT. So long as people are playing, that’s all you need man. Melee has had a history of ebbs and flows, current times aren’t that much different
To not be rushed in development, or else you'll end up with an unpolished game where people will use exploits you didn't mean to be there or be used as?
Yeah that wasn’t what the video was about at all because that’s cool
@@BrettWils "What every competitive game NEEDS to learn from Melee", that's the title; and by learn it means the developers learning, and I think they in fact, need to learn that, don't you?
Yeah, every game deserves to be rush and crunch free. Not the video we're talking about here though. We’re talking competitive communities, not developers and publishers.
@@BrettWils Okidoki, anyways my comment was just a question, thx for answering, have a nice day.
Noooo don’t be done talking about arms
Last video to hammer in the point, but not last video in general. When there's something to talk about, I'll be there, and I'm cookin up something big for everyone but that'll take time