Is Waldorf a Cult?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 6 июл 2024
- In this week's "Sunday with Sarah," I'm here to dispel another myth. Waldorf education is sometimes criticized for being religious, or even a cult. But is there any truth to these accusations? Find out as I separate fact from fiction.
Subscribe to my channel and click the bell icon to be notified when I post new videos!
As always, I love hearing from you so if you have a question you would like to be addressed in a future video, leave a comment below or write to sundaywithsarah@bellalunatoys.com
www.bellalunatoys.com
I went to a Waldorf school from kindergarten to Grade 8, and I am deeply grateful for it. When I transitioned to mainstream education in Grade 8, I was struck by the conformity in my peers' thinking. I genuinely believe that my early Waldorf education nurtured a capacity for lateral and critical thinking. Freedom of expression and individuality are nourished not quashed. It really isn't a cult.
I don't understand why Anthroposophists and Waldorf educators refuse to admit that Waldorf schools are religiously based. What is that really about? Waldorf education, every last moment, in every lesson plan is 100% derived from Anthroposophy. The kids are not taught Anthroposophy, true. They are not taught the doctrine of any Christian church, true (we can just ignore the fact that we hand copied the book of Genesis into our ML books in 3rd grade). But I watched my teachers perform a nativity play for the entire school 13 years in a row. I sang advent songs and attended advent assemblies every week in December. Every year. Nothing wrong with being a religiously based school. Own it. As a religious school you have a limited public to draw students from. It's your niche, just embrace! Why this decades-long denial? Seems to me it is just an attempt to make public funding of Waldorf schools in the US a possibility.
I think part of what has some people feel like it is a cult is the group thought mentality. There are some things that can feel a little cultish from an outside perspective- teachers dress alike, speak alike, carry baskets instead of purses, etc. You'll find this sameness across the world in Waldorf schools. It's part of the pedagogy and has reasons behind it, but new commers can feel uneasy about the conformity and the closest thing they can relate it to is a cult.
My son attends a Waldorf preschool and kindergarten, and I don't think we've experienced the "sameness" you're describing ... The lead teacher doesn't carry a basket instead of a purse; and her clothing seems perfectly ordinary to me ... Same with the assistant teacher. I wonder if what you're describing is simply the the fact that any group that tends to share certain values or interests may share other similarities, such as the type of clothing people might wear or the gear they might like to use -- for example, outdoor enthusiasts who like to shop at REI and wear North Face or Patagonia brand clothing; or eco-conscious consumers who carry reusable bags to the store (or even baskets) and prefer to wear natural materials over synthetic.
I also am not sure what you mean with respect to the idea of conformity in Waldorf schools ... At my son's Waldorf preschool, children aren't expected to conform to anything .... The parents are all interesting and unique individuals with different careers paths, and different reasons for wanting their children to be in a Waldorf preschool ... The children can express their individuality. This is our only Waldorf school experience so far, so I can't speak to other schools.
@@TamsynJones There is, of course, some variation from school to school with some areas of the world holding to the teachings a little stronger than others. And of course, many schools that are 'inspired' by Waldorf but are not full Waldorf schools. Flowy, full skirts for teachers in the younger years are part of the pedagogy, for example. How teachers speak or sing to children is part of the pedagogy. The more tightly a school holds to these teachings the more people typically feel like it seems 'cultish' in my experience.
My girls attended 3 private and 2 public Waldorf schools in 3 states and 2 countries during their school years. Switching to a public school in our own neighborhood would've been far more shocking for them than moving across the planet and staying in Waldorf. In each school we found people who struggled with aspects of Waldorf. Those who struggled the most were those who adhered to a strongly dogmatic teaching- like fundamentalist Christianity -and had a hard time reconciling certain elements. For example, the idea of the eternal soul is definitely a part of the way teachers see children. This, of course, was one of the things I love most about Waldorf- seeing my child as a spiritual being, not just a clump of flesh here for one lifetime. Fundamentalist Christians that believe in a final judgment at the end of a single lifetime were typically the ones who referred to Waldorf as a cult from my own experience. "Teachers believe in reincarnation! It's a cult!" was definitely a revelation I heard many times over the 19 years we were a part of Waldorf. Typically the same people who thought Jesus was not meditating during his 40 day fast because meditation is 'new age.' The same people that require yoga to be called stretching because yoga is a 'religion.'
@@CenteredlParentingTV Very interesting observations, Angelina! I did not realize that there was a dress code for teachers in private Waldorf schools, or a special manner by which teachers must sing ... And now that you mention the Waldorf-inspired aspect, I will say that my son's preschool is based on Waldorf principles, but I believes considers itself to be "inspired by" Waldorf rather than an official or accredited (or whatever term would best describe the oppose of "inspired by") Waldorf school. The preschool is a non-profit, and was started by a woman about 30 years ago who was an accredited Waldorf teacher (and also very active with, and maybe even co-founded, our local anthroposophical society -- which I'm not involved with, but just learned it existed when I started looking at preschool options). We also have to pay tuition ... but it may not be a full-fledged Waldorf school. So thank you for sharing your experience with the pedagogy, and with some people's reactions to it.
I'm still learning about Waldorf ... Much of what I've learned about it resonates with me (such as the emphasis on a connection to nature, play as work, teaching through myths, the celebration of the seasons, the emphasis on minimizing digital media in childrens' early years -- and your comment about how children are seen as spiritual beings, and the approach seeks to nourish their inner beings as well as their minds and creativity), but there's also a lot I still don't know. It is my wish to be able to send my son to a Waldorf grade school (or beyond), but there are no Waldorf primary schools in my area, so we're starting to think about whether we'd relocate where there is one (or try to homeschool instead). Thanks again for your comment and additional perspective!
@@TamsynJones To me, Waldorf is not perfect, but for our family was worth traveling and moving to places based on whether or not they had Waldorf schools. There was no method that I found that spoke to me more than Waldorf. There is no method out there that I am aware of- and have searched high and low- that knows children better than Waldorf. My relationship with my children would've been quite different if not for the guidance of Waldorf teachers. With their intuitive understanding of each individual in addition to the work they do with the temperaments and other more esoteric methods, gave me an entirely different understanding of each of my children. The majority of methods out there classify kids by age or development, not as individuals with particular temperaments and life intentions. So how I responded to my older daughter vs. my younger one, were completely different at every stage of their development. All through their teen years when I would mention my daughters' ages people would say, "Omg, that's drama! I'll bet there are a lot of slamming doors in your house!' We just never hit that stage. In Waldorf there is a progression of 'protected childhood into freedom' . and the vast majority of the parents in all the schools we attended who followed this progression and took teachers' input and took workshops given by Kim John Payne and other educators on how to work with adolescents and were open to learn, had truly enjoyable and beautiful teen years and beyond.
stupidity unsupported by any common sense arguments
Why, why, would you sign up for Waldorf teacher training if you didn’t know what anthroposophy was, let alone how to pronounce the word. Also, I find it one of the most insulting canards that Waldorf teachers pull out of their pocket to say that anthroposophy is a hard word to pronounce, no it fucking isn’t.
Not a cult...mr Steiner's picture in every room.
Not at our local Steiner School.
@@Longtack55 only in the chapel?
Not in every room only in the big Hall.............comming from a exwaldi
Not anywhere in the school I went to...
Like this school near me which has Jesus on every wall, every room and every corner 💀💀💀
I was learning this at 16 years old with a summer Art teacher who was a student under Elizabeth Wagner after she Saw my Artwork and I told her about my views of Therapy and Colors she got me into Wagner and Rudolph Steiner, it was very fascinating
Cult or not, I know a lot of people who went to Waldorf school and sadly I have to say that they're quite arrogant, selfish and often are into decadent art and are prone to fanaticism. It perhaps also has something to do with their parents since most of the parents were very ''new age'' hippie type of people. These children who are now grown ups, I find them to be hard to get along with and belieme me that I know a lot of them. My sister went to a waldorf school for 3 years and some of the things they have been forbidden to do were just plain weird. It almost felt like brainwashing.
I don't mean to say that Waldorf school is worse than any other school, let the parents try themselves, but these are my experiences with the Waldorf school students
You pretty much hit the nail on the haid. 👌🏻
What 'decadent art'? Don't you think that what fills many modern art galleries is, actually, profoundly decadent?
I agree.
well, thats ok, a school can do literally magic but parents still need to raise their children.
Search for the experiences of Grégoire Perra, an ex- Anthroposophist and ex-professor at the Steiner-Waldorf school. He has written an article describing the operation of the entire organization, methodologies in class, philosophy, rituals, prayers, relationship with the pupils and between teachers. Basically, it is a whole framework which idolizes Steiner's person and follows his thoughts strictly. Another funny thing is that anthroposophist is against medicine and
vaccines.
There was a statement released from the Anthroposophical Medical Association in 2022 that encouraged the covid vaccine and stated that Steiner himself took a vaccine. Steiner's work can be challenging to digest and there are many misunderstandings, much like the Bible and other important works of literature that inform human life. If you look into Biodynamics you would see that Anthroposophists advocate for food with life force, and keeping the body healthy at all times.
@@MissFarnsey Maybe there are more than a point of view within the group, but here in Spain I've read a report from the national anthroposophy organization where they talked about the healing power of breathing. They gave some strange and spiritual suggestions to prevent and treat COVID (having a good mood, doing breathing exercises), and they told nothing about social distance, masks or vaccines :D
@@Mordhereck You make an excellent point that there is a difference in Waldorf Education in each country, as my comment was from an Australian pov! Also, from other people's comments you could say that each Waldorf school has its own culture although the pedagogy is shared. Talking about Waldorf Schools as a whole is really just like talking about Catholic Schools or State Schools as a whole. It's really is too general.
Dear Sarah, my kids have been now for 3 years in a Steinerschool in Belgium, we couldn’t being more blessed to know about this methodological way to learn and respect every single child in their own speed and unique way to be. Our eldest he has autism, he was for 4 years in special school, he was what i could say “gray”, he was no writing, no interest in nothing, sad ... gray kid. When he started at this school his teacher was the 3rd person who believed in him and gave him a chance to be part of our society, now at the age of 9 (education started at 2.5 years in Belgium) now he has developed interests in so many areas, acting, drawing, he developed amazing mathematics skills being one of the top 10 in his class, he reads beautifully being in the first trimester already read 15 books (what ever interest he has nothing asked by the school), he is singing and he is happy, the kids in his class respect him in his very unique way to be, they care nourish him , even tho he doesn’t have contact with them HE is part of the class and he feels it too. Now after a while he started to develop trust and he has his first friend . Waldorf gives you the tools and you choose what you feel comfortable with it, no one tell us what to do, no one obligates us to do something that we don’t wanted, on contrary our teacher is so open minded that he accepts my ideas about how to work with my kid and he helps. My kid loves knitting now he already made a beanie and scarf.
I am not denying the bad experiences of the other people, i give them the benefit of the doubt, in this world you can find so many bad things but that doesn’t mean EVERYTHING is bad. Dark cults hiding behind the name of any kind of schools methodological ones or regular ones.
*Not trying to start a discussion just wanted to share our lovely story how our kid from being gray turned to be now fully of colorful with amazing new skills and being respected and accepted not only at school but also outside because also the school helps with his self acceptance and confidence **
I find it fishy that you say that he's in the "top 10 of his class" at age 9 when waldorf schools don't grade or test children until they're in 6th grade.
That's amazing! It's so important to find a community where there is belonging and acceptance especially for autistic children. So glad he has found that at your steiner school ♥
What a beautiful comment. I loved your description of going from gray to color, and the connectedness he feels with peers 🥰
Dear Sir, I am glad that you have found immediate solace for your problems in Wolfdorf, but I suggest that you better study the belief system on which the Wolfdorf pedagogy is based, which is called anthroposophy, and think about whether it is all right, and as a professional dance artist I can help you freely to say that eurythmy is not a dance but an extension of doctrine. You can enroll your child in a normal school as well as in various dance activities that do not contain problematic doctrines such as karam and reincarnation, which everyone at Waldorf must believe in and base their pedagogy on.
@@maisieliberty1319 autistic children have support in other schools too
It's a school by school case. Each school is it's own sub-culture.
Parents, as a former student the best case scenario is your child receives a hands on education, that while unique has it's own benefits, and your child prospers, making friends that will last a lifetime as Waldorf keeps the same set of students throughout all 8 grades.
The most like scenario is you find that the school is a bit of a hive mind. That the curriculum is a little strange with a lack of tests or tangible evidence on how your child is doing besides non descriptive teacher evalutations. You'll have some doubts about what's going on, but you see that the teachers focus on each student and that no child is left behind while learning core subjects you would find in a regular school along with some extra skills like knitting.
The worst case scenario is you find the other parents believe in some things well out of the main stream. Such as anti-vaccination culture, Essential oils, even witchcraft and upon finding you think that's very off putting, they will shut you out and do their best to make sure that your child doesn't associate with their children or their friend's children. Your child will not get the education they need, and when you do finally decide to move them to a public school or a more adequate private school, you'll find that they're sorely behind.
Sending your child to a Waldorf school is a gamble. The only advice I can give you is, if the school is at an urban location, there's a chance of it being more normal and more adequate and the opposite for rural schools. However this is not proven or well researched, it's just a personal observation of mine.
Think critically parents, and get in contact with people who have sent or are sending their children to a waldorf school before you make the jump and enroll your children.
Best response yet and encouragement. Very non biased and open/optimistic. My child is 10 months old and since pregnancy I have been looking into Waldorf education as an option, and more recently my deeper investigation has lead me to Anthroposophy (which our family has no interest in). This has encouraged me to even sooner (although I was already going to check out one of our two Waldorf schools well before they’re able to attend) than I was going to.
short answer from a student in one of the best waldorf schools in hungary; no. it is not.
your voice is super soothing and sweet.
on my experience as of now. I've never ever ever EVER been forced into any religious thoughts. My first waldorf field trip was amazing and even the students in the school..even my teachers joke with it being a cult. i was in a non Waldorf School for 8 years. The change and difference is astronomical. My mental well being has never ever been better in a school, im truly super thankful for all of my teachers.
A legtöbb szekta tag nem ismeri fel azt a tényt,hogy egy szekta tagja.
Let's see... cult or not, for $940 non refundable I was:
- stood in a circle holding hands every morning reciting chants to "give thanks to the earth mother", once stood here in the cold for so long i suffered temporary blindness and vertigo from lack of oxygen to the brain. no professional medical attention was given.
- pressured to come out of the closet and later stoned by other students for my sexuality, which the staff did basically nothing to prevent
- witnessed an autistic child's psychotic breakdown from bullying go pretty much neglected by staff
- witnessed a child get a rock thrown at him by another student, bleeding heavily from the forehead while the perpetrator got off with nothing more than a verbal slap on the wrist
- students were subtly but surely encouraged to laugh at racist comments against the black student and no teacher intervention was undertaken
- black kid was tied to a tree in hot sunlight with his pants yanked down and laughed at by students, again teachers weren't aware of this for at least 30 minutes and the issue was shrugged off by all staff as "boys will be boys"
- our teacher was later found to be cheating on his wife with a student's parent
- our school camp was child labour and bamboo farming disguised as "building a greenhouse for the school garden" (why not use all the enrolment fees to fund this with trained contractors instead?)
- campsite had no toilet, only shelter was a corrugated iron roof that had no walls or wind protection, after i requested to leave the site suffered severe flooding and everyone was evacuated by the state emergency service
- only for them to attempt the same campsite two weeks later and have the same thing happen again
- still haven't received any form of refund for this
- I've now been diagnosed with a PTSD-related condition from these events
even if it's not a cult, I would definitely stay away.
Edit: ESPECIALLY because Rudolf Steiner believed in "racial ascension" and that a person's skin tone grew lighter the closer they got to spiritual enlightenment.
Thank you! i went there for one year and nobody believes me
i agree with everything you said
yep its horid i was there as a black little trans boy. and i was hit and heated by my techerrs
I’m not a Waldorf teacher but I think it is vital for a teacher to take into account every dimension of a student including the spiritual. Without this mindset (and heart set!), a child can be discarded when difficulties arise. This is what can happen in public schools. A Waldorf school is a community where each person learns to encounter others with dignity and respect and where mutual trust can flourish.
Unless they are a minority.
I think that it depends on the school, I've gone to two waldorf schools, one of them was great the other one was really bad.
I graduated last year from a waldorf school. No cult stuff. Just knitting gnomes with colored yarn:/
Hello Sarah!
Thank you for sharing. I’m a teacher and I discovered Waldorf education through one of your previous videos comparing Waldorf to Montessori. I had been looking into becoming a Montessori teacher but when I discovered your channel I started doing research and became very interested. The idea that Waldorf education might have some cult-like aspects did occur to me, especially the restriction on television watching, and I have read some information implying, and sometimes outright claiming, that Waldorf education is a cult. I wanted to say thank you for this video because it did help clear some air. I think it’s important for people to remember that “spiritual” does not always equal “religious” and that exposing children to various mythologies and religions does not mean you are forcing children to partake in them.
LaQuetta Frost as a former student of a Steiner school who has attended two different Steiner schools, I would like to just mention that it’s just not television we are restricted from. Our parents were encouraged to restrict us from the internet, and all information that was not taught at the school, including but not exclusively politics, recent/modern history, sex education, modern religions, philosophies and beliefs outside of Steiner or Christianity, lgbtq and modern technologies. The belief in karma also was a massive problem, with teachers often saying that if you were bullied, it must be your fault as there must be some bad karma between you and he other child that you started. Mental health was also not believed and I had some friends with notes from mental health professionals to allow them to leave class if they were overwhelmed which were almost always ignored. If you are/ decide to teach in Steiner, please, please use some common sense and make some children’s lives a little better, as these things (which seem to be quite common from what I’ve heard from other former student) are what causes the majority of the problems
LaQuetta Frost Omg same thing with me, I was also looking to be a Montessori teacher but Waldorf is starting to sound better!
@@charlottefitzpatrick2976 my sister put all 3 of her kids at Waldorf school. I have been seeing everything you are describing in them. I am concern about her kids' future. Whenever we got into discussion about the school, my sister becomes irrational and extremely defensive. And she became an anti-vaxxer also. I lover her and her kids and really concern about their future.
So horrible. I can not get.my father out of this. I have tried so hard. He is stuck with antrophosophy. There is so much to say and tell you. As long as youtube does this wild censorship, how can you tell about it.
DUDE! we say spells every morning and before eating! Religious celebrations. Dictating what you eat ish what's deemed good (organic, home made preferably at least vegetarian. Low sugar), so much time, such vague things
its a cult
I don’t know that is true for everyone and every Waldorf school.
I see nothing wrong with organic and low sugar.
I spent 11 years in a Steiner School. I have been grateful for it - in profound ways. What I loved about it, and appreciate about it as an adult, is that contrary to learning only one culture and religion - we learnt deeply about many different cultures and religions. This made me feel like a citizen of the world on leaving school, and sparked a deep respect and curiosity in all cultures, religions and philosophies - including atheism! Yes we spoke poems about God, and learnt about Old Testament stories. But we also recited poetry and verses from India and Persia, classic texts from Ancient Greece and Rome. This was all in primary school!
Each study of a culture was rich in philosophy, literature, geography, mathematics, music and art. My experience was that no one culture/religion or philosophy was put before another, as more important - it seemed to be about exploration and genuine wonder/respect for each one. There was also equal reverence for the scientific and natural world and the primary curriculum was steeped in this. As an adult I have looked more deeply into the ideas behind this curriculum, and feel extremely privileged to have absorbed such a rich foundation for being a global citizen. I am so saddened to hear of people's terrible experiences, and I wonder if the human element of each individual school or teacher, is the cause? Because as far as I understand Rudolf Steiner intended for this curriculum and this educational approach for students to go into the world as free individuals, who stand in their own truth, live with integrity, have the confidence to follow their purpose and to make some meaningful contribution to the world. That is what I received, in love, from my teachers - not abuse, religious indoctrination, or racism.
Steiner lived in the early part of the last century, his ideas in education and agriculture have stood the test of time, in that they have grown beyond his death - not shrunk. However, if there was anything I would do to modernise the literature, it would be to make new translations or editions, be more gender equal - and lose the German word 'man' for what Steiner meant as 'human' - I think this is long overdue :)
This is a problem of the limitations of language itself as well as cultural context. If for example, we take the root meaning of 'man' as 'mannas' which is 'spirit', and therefore ''wo-man' has something in addition - all this has been forgotten. 'Human' from 'humus' which means 'earth' puts a different complexion on a sentence we might want to use, so I would say, (a) either is okay, depending on context, and (b) we need to remember what the original word was supposed to mean, which in the C21st, would not have to imply superiority of one gender over another.
Yes it was in primary school since Steiner felt that those cultures were "dreamy" and of the "old ways" which were "developmentally appropriate" for younger kids. It was not until the Greeks the he says certain things became "fully embodied" and that the intellect came more to fruition. Congrats. you have been inculcated into a racist worldview without even knowing it. FYI - other school teach about other cultures and religions too.It's kind of what goes on in school.
@@frankvazquez5974 Respectfully, as someone who, albeit not extensively, studied the development of philosophical discourse and 'the sense of individual Self' in literature, it is true that the ancient Greeks established an objective view of the individual Self, enabling discourse and the first mention of something called 'democracy'. This is so. In many ancient cultures, and some parts of the world to this day, the Individual is recognised as less important than the collective mentality. If this was properly understood in the West, we would not be expecting China to adopt democratic reforms at any time soon. It has nothing to do with 'race' as such, but cultural development. (As an aside, the present day Greeks are a Balkan people with no racial connection to the ancient Greeks.) The Asian cultures did not achieve this, even though intellectual development is there in India and the Middle East. I've read some lectures by Steiner where he praises to the skies the achievement of Indian culture and the Vedas (the oldest texts they have) and the Bhagavad Gita (he did a series of lectures on this), plus his lectures on ancient Egypt, of which he says, present day scholars understand almost zero.
Finally, I wish to say that having met people who attended Waldorf schools in Germany, Czech Rep., and the UK, I have found them to be very open-minded and tolerant people, without a grain of racialism among them - not one jot. So it sounds to me, reading some people's comments, that Steiner has been both misused, or only partially understood - and misused as a result, by some who claim to be 'teachers' of it in the U.S.
I’ve been doing research about schooling options for my daughter which led me to the Waldorf. I stumbled across the teacher survival guide that was published in 1992 which says “ most of that which contributes our work as teachers, preparation work, artistic work, even meditative work, is under the guardianship of Lucifer”.
Can you please explain Waldorfs History and current beliefs and ties to Lucifer and witchcraft?
Waldorf schools blend many theories of education together, many are really cool so it disguises some of the bad! I’ve met great people there! But, ultimately children have a beautiful and laid back atmosphere which will be recalled well into adulthood so that the adult will in turn become students of Anthroposophy which (along with many spiritual truths) will secretly teach you that Jesus Christ is not the messiah and that the 2 “opposing” forces of Ahriman and Lucifer are ultimately going to deliver humanity through racial evolution into freedom, which of course is very wrong! It is a secret society and secrets are misconstrued so they can have followers who have been blindly misguided.
PLEASE DO NOT GO! i went there for a year and it is VERY cult like and abusive to autistic kids
@@ultranecrozma7449 its a very case by case thing. Im autistic and swedish, i go to waldorf and its a breath of fresh air: ive never had a greater school life.
@@beekidsart1176 Im starting to think it depends what school you go to.
@@ultranecrozma7449 it absolutley does!
A lot of this stuff sounds great, especially about letting the new generations create their own mould through their expression and behaviour, rather than forcing them into our pre-existing one.
But why hasn’t it been rescued from the connection with an eccentric Austrian occultist that had twice as many confused, hysterical and absurd insights, as he did genius ones? Why not cannibalise and extract the good, then build on that and update it with new findings. I’m sure this is basically what happens in Steiner schools, but why still have his name attached?
We all know some teachers are gonna get a bit Scientology about all this stuff, and become unable to separate the rational insights from the racist and deranged ramblings regarding spirits, past lives and how the melanin levels in your skin betray your moral fortitude. Many white teachers will feel like they have been all the shades and have finally arrived at some higher level of karmic energy or whatever, it’s impossible to avoid when you claim this guy to be a genius about so much, “oh, but yeah, he’s wrong about all this?” This isn’t how the human brain works for many people. It’s like Islam, it’s hard to accept only parts of Koran, if some of it is flawed, than that could compromise integrity of the entire ideology.
Well, there is a trap door for this. In homeschooling land, we are doing exactly that. Taking what we like, and leaving the rest. There are things that simply don’t apply, the world has come along way since 1919. I think, they need to drop the name Waldorf as well, and call it something else. Modern esoteric education, or, how about Hogwarts education. If they were upfront with their intentions, and what they expected, I think people will be a lot more understanding. Or maybe not.
It’s not an organized cult, but it’s organized in a way where each school is it’s own entity with their own rules, and a fully closed system. You are either in and a warrior for the cause, or you are an outsider and not to be trusted or confided in. They are very cliquey at best, and often culty on an individual school level. My recommendation as a 5 year student 10 years ago, stay away.
"I'm a Waldorf educator" Ah, yes, that makes this video *very* objective, neutral, and unbiased for sure.
Fuck here
confronted with critisim, the common waldi uses its super power: "repeat what you were taught and dont you dare respond to an specific argument"
Was it supposed to be objective and unbiased?
@@ulrikeiglesias4728 sounds like the pro vaxxers who can’t wrap their head around the idea of vaccine deaths and the way the culty doctors try to ignore it when your dad goes into multiple organ failure following a flu shot.
@@OfftoShambala Of course as an anti-vaxxer you'd support waldorf schools, they're equally as nutty as you are.
Asking someone in a cult if they are in a cult!😂
hmmmm.... would you ever go to a person in a cult for a definitive answer if they were in a cult? only someone with no allegience to Waldorf could say if it was a cult or not.
This video offered no answers to any questions. Merely vague responses coming from an indoctrinated member. She starts to say that there is no mention of religion too only then list religious views they cover. They are not merely schools but entire tight knit communities that suppress outside views.
Anthroposophy is not taught to the children directly however it underlines and justifies every choices in the curriculum. I remember one day we were asked to model a human being and to turn that human being into an ape, by lowering its upper body ( weird pedagogical activity in the first place ) then I found out years after that Steiner believed that apes descended from human beings and were a a kind of sub-species of human being...imagine the damage that this curriculum can have on someone's critical thinking or relationship to knowledge. Anthroposophy will never advertise itself, it is always hidden behind pretty, appealing ideas and set ups ( just like Sarah's lovely crafts) but it does promote ideas that are a mixture of magic/esoterism that have nothing to do with what should be taught in schools. Please parents do not fall into the trap of thinking this is just an alternative pedagogy like Montessori. Steiner Schools have an agenda and this agenda is to convert people to anthroposophy.
From what I’ve read online, the basis for the argument comes from two different places. The first being the idea that some Waldorf schools do not “disclose” the fact that its foundation upon Rudolph Steiner’s beliefs that many people see as archaic and crazy, which winds up being kind of a flimsy concern once you do some careful research.
The other line of logic seems to be that some Waldorf schools ‘reject’ children from admissions for various reasons that many people find to be very unfair and unforgiving. Personally, I don’t know anything about whether or not this is true. I don’t really know if admissions for Waldorf schools are really strict, but even then that’s certainly not in line with “cult” behavior (as most cults will accept just about anyone with open arms).
@Missirresponsibility Thanks for your comment. I, for one, believe that Waldorf schools should be open, honest, and transparent about the philosophical basis upon which the education was built. And also to acknowledge that Steiner had some crazy far out ideas that make no sense to most of us in this day and age. But it's important that parents are reassured that not all these ideas are relevant to the school or its teachers, and that neither Steiner's ideas nor anthroposophy are taught to students. In my opinion, Steiner's ideas on child development and education were way ahead of his time. Many public and mainstream schools are adopting Waldorf school practices like having a teacher stay with a class for multiple years, and putting less emphasis on testing. But in my view, it would be crazy to throw the baby out with the bathwater because we find some of Steiner's philosophical ideas (that have nothing to do with education) archaic or nonsensical.
Sunday with Sarah I completely agree! It just seems like a lot of the accusations against Waldorf are just based in fear and misunderstanding rather than any actual fact. Smh😓
@@SundaywithSarah I agree that Rudolf Steiner was in many ways ahead of his time. I also think a key point that has perhaps been overlooked (not by you; just by the public at large when Waldorf education is discussed and misconceptions develop) is the social and political context in which he was forming his spiritual, philosophical and educational ideas. Fascism was developing and on the rise, with its efforts to control information and enforce conformity. I suspect this is a big reason why the first Waldorf school (and successive ones) sought to have complete autonomy over the curriculum, and complete independence from the state. I think Steiner was also a product of his time in other ways. He had lived through World War I (not to mention, all the many smaller wars happening throughout Europe in the late 19th and early 20th centuries -- all the discontent, suffering, etc.), and esotericism and related philosophies were increasingly popular during this era too.
I'm by no means an expert on Rudolf Steiner, but I think those historical contexts may be important for understanding some of the original underpinnings of Waldorf education. Considering some of Steiner's beliefs today, it can be easy to label him or some of his ideas as fringe or far-out -- but then, that's often true when looking back at any historical time period (who knows what people 100+ years from now will think about ideas currently popular in *our* society!).
No sweetheart! It’s because they are racist
I find. this so funny because in Australia we call them Rudolf Steiner Schools! There is not hiding that - its been accepted as the only national 'alternative' curriculum and went through a rigorous screening process along side many other pedagogies including Montessori and Reggio Emilia. As such if the schools are teaching Seiner Ed - they need to have it in their title. There is a national peak body that supports and monitors schools to be providing education based on a balanced Steiner perspective, and member schools may not break out into extremist views or practices. It's not perfect, but it is transparent.
I´m researching on different alternative schools and pedagogies (I´m hispanic btw), taking into consideration Walford schools and nowdays there´s actually a scientific background that´s constantly growing. Idk how it´s in the north side of the world but here Waldorf schools seem to be taking a more modern and scientific approach.
Hi Sarah, I really enjoy all of your videos but this a has been a favorite. My family is Christian. One of the first things I came across when researching was that waldorf education was witch craft. I knew this wasn’t true and didn’t finish reading. What I loved when I toured a waldorf school nervy was that they said they accepted everyone. And I also love the way you said it. It’s a moral education. Thanks again for taking the time to make these videos!
@Brittany Galloway Thank you so much for watching and for your kind comment. If it gave even one family reassurance, then I feel that making it was time well spent. Blessings on your parenting and schooling journey. ~Sarah
Witchcraft? No. Occultism and highly unorthodox Christianity? Yes. For example, reincarnation is treated as a fact, they hold that there were *two* Jesuses (one of which died before puberty), that Jesus was inhabited by the "Christ-spirit" for three years and so forth. They've also inherited a lot from Theosophy, such as "root races".
And that's just scratching the surface of it.
You should have finished reading it. Steiner is an occultist. Source: Parents and grandparents involved in the cult. Next time read the damn thing fully.
IF THEY HAVE 1 PERSON THAT IS IN CHARGE. THEN YES, THEY ARE A CULT BY DEFINITION. NOT THE OCCULT.
Why don't you teach them about Jesus Christ?
Talk a little about the Steiner texts and what they mean, it sounds a little bit like gibberish to me when i read what Steiner writes. can you interpret hes texts after becoming a waldorf teacher? can you describe hes world view in a short text that is easy to understand.
My parents considered sending me to a Waldorf school at one point. From what I know about them they seem a bit 'woo' and new age to me. The curriculum also seems to be very art and craft based. Might be ok for kindergarten and younger children but how well do they prepare kids for life?
Do they prepare kids well for going on to higher education/employment and do they encourage it? Would someone who went to a Waldorf school be able to go to university and cope with the workload and academic environment? Would they have important skills such as computer literacy (as important as reading and writing now, you can't even get a basic job without IT skills)?
i went to a waldorf school, it's not a cult but it's definitely weird and idk if I'd recommend it
they make you worship the earth mother etc, its a cult
@@ultranecrozma7449 So by that statement they're Pagans then. Paganism is a precursor to monotheism.
@Billie Martin Please, for your daughter, DO NOT do it. Please read my (very long, sorry) comment above. Protect your child. There is no empathy, there is indoctrination, abuse and neglect. Please re-think.
T he dor Re us was the founder of the OTO. He was R. S's teacher!!!!!! Please, check it out.
This was beautifully explained as always! I look forward to your videos every week. I am so glad and thankful you started them again. 🙏🌈 💛
Our two children attended a Wadorf school..they were well educated, enjoyed learning and have grown into well rounded , happy and community minded people .
They confidently travel the world in their own way being kind ,sociable ,caring and humerous .
Thank you Mr Steiner and all good Waldorf educators. 🌼
Very calm & pretty teacher. It must be a calm learning process for the students.
Wow, you're...strange comment.
They’re terrifying when you forget to make a pencil shaving background
what is moral? who decides and why?
Visited one today as my wife is very interested in Steiner schools for our older son. It sure seemed like a cult to me. “Hard to make sense of” Steiner’s views...like all the weird stuff about race? This post is totally disingenuous.
Jay Mueller it’s definitely a cult. This woman is just fully indoctrinated
My children were very harmed by this cult.
@@courtneycox8297 how so? We are considering this.
Freya Fitzroy she’s brainwashed
I’m an ex-Waldorf teacher and I know many wonderful people that work in Waldorf schools and non of them would ever be comfortable with “knowing” they were in a cult. I certainly was brainwashed! It’s hard to see it and I certainly wasn’t willing to admit I was in one. But one of the reasons it’s a cult is that children will remember the best years of their lives were spent in Waldorf schools do they will come running back generations after and well into adulthood study Anthroposophy sobit keeps a following. Many of the anthroposophical “secrets” promise to reveal themselves to you as you go deeper into the studies, a study that is rooted in Theosophical ideals about race and made-up stuff about how Ahriman and Lucifer really want to help us be free, the made up FAKE ideal of the Aryan race which does not exist! How this epoch is up to the Aryans to move humanity forward into evolution. All of this is a neo-nazi program which I just went along with and didn’t realize what I was doing. It’s a cult because they persuade you with BEAUTIFUL things while subconsciously indoctrinating you without you even noticing
Did you say you signed up for a Waldorf teacher training program without knowing the word anthroposophy? Yikes!
Waldorf great except that they suppress anger and sadness in students
i was there. short answer YES its a cult
What makes it a cult?
Well maybe that was your experience.
@@Awaken12578 My experience in teacher training was it's a religious practice/ and cult like. As you know The Waldorf curriculum is based on the metaphysical belief and practice of Anthroposophy which was made up in Steiner's imagination. Steiner the Guru hangs on all the walls so you can remember why you are there much like a catholic school has Christ on the wall. The Waldorf system is not based on scientific or proven education research! It would be normal to be in the system and not be able to see how nuts it is. Just how people are raised in some churches and don't see how nut's it is. There is NO scientific evidence that supports Antropospsy as a way to educate children. For many years Waldorf didn't believe in learning disabilities, they would refer to Seiner's belief system the learning disabilities don't exist. The school didn't hire psychologists who are trained to test children. Teachers believing colors bring darkness to the soul?? Believing in incarnation etc. I could go on but won't. It's is a mystic creation of aknowledge that is the complete opposite of public and most private educations systems that base their education off state standards and teachers who base the teaching of scientifically understanding education and child developement.
@@OfftoShambala
fear of outsiders
Isolation of it’s followers
Belief in rituals
Shunning if those who do not follow the rituals
Miseducation
Lack of education
Do you really want more?
@@SOS-ct9mv exactly my experience in my Waldorf training.
The fact that you had to check a definition of a cult, makes me think that you tought that you were getting involved in a cult.
Typically if this question has to be answered and explained the answer is, yes.
Thanks for this video, love❤❤
I am a student at Waldorf and every morning after morning recess we have to run and stretch and we already do that in gym and my muscles felt sore and i have to eat extra protein now.
Because youtube's censorship it is very hard to write about R. S. here. He was the leader of a maz onik lo dg e called Adyar (A). A was the German section of the The osophic alSoc iety (TS).
He was not a Freemason. Yes, a member of the Theosophical Society briefly, as you mention, but departed to set up the Anthroposophical Society.
@@stephendouglas4870 He was running the German-speaking lodge Mephis-Misraim.from 1906-1914 and the Adyar lodge of the German Theosophical Society all his life. He was murdered by his own contractors, just like Michael Jackson.
@@stephendouglas4870 The Anthroposophical Society according to his own words is a developed version of Theosophy, designed to fit the Western world. Theosophy was founded to eliminate Christianity by mixing up Christ' clear Salvation message with other religions. Please see Lucy's Trust.
@@stephendouglas4870 I will give you an example how R. S. tricks your mind. He calls an ancient Egyptian dance, used by the Pharaohs to invoke demons "Eurythmie". "Eu" sounds like Europe. He sometimes admitted it was Egyptian. He never admitted it was used to invoke demons. Please see the Golden Parade of the Mummies some weeks ago in Cairo, organized by the elite. There you can see the dancers are dancing "Eurythmie" among the Pyramids. R. S. was given the assignment to introduce demonic elements into Europe and mix them up with Christianity. Perhaps you know R. S. wrote many books about Mary and Isis. Mary was the Holy mother of Christ. Isis is an incestuous Egyptian deity, used since for ever as a portal to magic. That is why Isis is depicted with an orange magic ball. R. S. mixes them up and plays tricks on you.
@@stephendouglas4870 This is crazy. Excuse me. Please read Steiner's own words. Anthroposophy is not breaking with Theosophy. It is a Western development of it. Steiner was an "occultist". He was hiding things from you. When he discovered his own contractors had poisoned him he said to his maid first thing: "don't tell anyone". He sticked to the Masonic oaths he had made even when they proved deadly. So much he loved his masters.
Well, no. While I would not use the term "cult" to describe (almost all) religious movements, it is PERFECTLY clear that Anthroposophy is
a) religious in nature, and
b) informs every aspect of Waldorf-pedagogy, even if most of its content isn't *directly* taught to students.
The founding teachers of Stuttgart were told by Rudolf Steiner that the Archangels were pouring out chalices of secret wisdom above their assembly, for Pete's sake! You can hardly get more religious than that.
Also, students are viewed in terms of their supposed "tempers", their physiognomy is analysed to supposedly find clues not only about their character, but also about "karmic" signs of prior incarnations. And of course, there *are* elements of Anthroposophy appearing in classrooms, and not just in Eurythmy, the "dance of angels": a linear understanding of human history that views Christian Europe as the pinnacle of a spiritual evolution is regularly taught, as is the notion of a historical Atlantis and a thorough rejection of both evolutionary biology and all kinds of paleo-studies that contradict Steiner's postulates.
The not directly is key.
Untill like 11th grade you are "WHY THE F AM I DOING THIS!?" granted i just chose it in 7th, for it being a smaller school and the arts and crafts.
If you’d like to email me I’m at freyafitzroy@gmail.com. I’m of the opinion that Waldorf is a religion and a cult. I’m trying to get a support group together.
I'm a Waldorf student- But I've only been one for three years, and have also attended a public school and a Christian school. A Waldorf is far less religious than a Christian school, and far less propaganda. Does having an unusual underlying spiritual inclination, however small, still make it a cult? I don't know. You judge. I watch way too much films and think being considered part of a cult is pretty cool, so whatever XD *(- A student from Spain, classmate of Dafne Keen- yes, the X Men actress, she's also part of the cult lol).*
The hin du dem oon z chan neled by R. S. names are: Koot-Hoori and M oyra.
Incorrect. Koot-Hoomi and Morya were channeled by M. Blavatsky, not by Steiner. She embraced spiritualism, while Steiner was against such practices, because they involved the practitioner going into a trance, which he said was an archaic practice, perhaps dangerously misleading.
@@stephendouglas4870 Steiner also loved Alchemy. "Kemet" is the old word ancient Egyptians used for "Egypt". "Al" means "the". So alchemy is is fact "al+kemet", or "the Egyptian art". That Egyptian art is black magic, the same one used by the Pharaoh against the Jewish people to keep them enslaved, murder the first born boys, turn rods into snakes and water into blood. Alchemy is about power. And it is used by the elite to obtain power. Memphis was the name of the city of the Pharaoh. Misraim is the Hebrew word for Egypt. The Memphis-Misraim lodge practises occult rituals from old Egypt. R. S. and his wife von Sivert were introduced into M. M. by Theodor Reuss. It was very, very secret. Napoleon was a Miraim freemason too. R. S. loved it. It made him very charismatic. He stopped running the German M. M. lodge 1914. I do not know why. But Steiner never gave up on the Egyptian occult arts. He certainly practised M.M. rituals throughout his whole life as Eurythmie as Alchemy etc. He did refrain from the blood sacrifice and child sex elements of M. M. But he knew very well about that part. His wife too. She was a very high-ranking noble lady. By the way the Alchemy Bible is called "Splendor Solis".
Do not go into that. My friend actually saw the de moons when doing eurythmie.
Yeah right. I saw the moon doing the break dance.
She did see the demons copying the movements of eurythmie... she was petrified..Why do you think they dance dances to invoke demons, if there are no demons? Unfortunately there are. They call them "spirits". Pretty name!
*Montessori & the Miseducation Conversation*
In the 1930s, when Woodson spoke of the mis-education of Black Americans, he was referring to the social conditioning that was taking place in schools, which continuously reinforced the idea of Black inferiority.
In The Mis-Education of the Negro, Woodson called for a shift in education that would provide Black Americans with the background knowledge (meaning access to an accurate history) as well as the skills and capability to excel, be independent, and live fruitfully in society.
The idea that this approach, which I have dutifully chosen for my children’s education, as well as for our home, was intentionally commercialized by Maria Montessori herself feels like extortion.
Some of her students, amazingly, went on to pass the same primary-school exams as their mainstream peers, although Montessori shrugged off the results-the strong performance of her “little idiots,” as she called them, was more an indictment of the state-school system than it was an endorsement of her pedagogy, she said.
In her laments that teen-agers are “subject to the small-minded blackmail of the ‘bad grade,’ ” Montessori anticipated the “gradeless movement” in schools, the opt-out movement for standardized tests, and a wealth of literature indicating that a focus on grades and tests can discourage meaningful learning.
And, in her assertion that, in De Stefano’s words, “authoritarianism and competition-the ingredients of school as traditionally conceived-create violence,” Montessori foresaw aspects of the school-to-prison pipeline.
In some ways, the engine of her method was paradox: order is freedom, and vice-versa; the teacher is subordinate to the child, but powerfully so; a child must be left to her own devices, but left to them systematically, and the devices shall be made of wood.
Maria sitting in a classroom in Rome, in 1876, that “is like all the others in the Kingdom of Italy: a prison for children.” When Maria reads aloud to her class, “she makes everybody cry.” (Really? Everybody?)
Yet the obvious irony of Montessori’s crusade on behalf of the poorest and least powerful in society is that its most visible legacy is selective private schools for the élite.
As word of the San Lorenzo experiment travelled around Rome, two of the early adopters were the city’s mayor and the British Ambassador to Italy; soon, aristocrats and diplomats were hosting Montessori classrooms in their parlors.
The arc of Montessori’s rise shared the same coördinates as that of many a visionary. As De Stefano shows, the disorienting effects of fame fostered in her a dependence on sycophancy, but also a paranoid distrust even of her closest acolytes.
The longevity of the #cult of Montessori flows, in part, from her extreme efforts to protect her work from contamination: she maintained a personal monopoly on training and certifying teachers in her method, tightly governed the distribution of Montessori texts and tools, and even sought patents for her minor variations on objects as familiar as block letters or an abacus.
Financial incentives, in other words, made it more likely that Montessori’s project-a mating of altruism and scientific inquiry, born in asylums and slums-would become transactional and exclusive. Her growing celebrity, meanwhile, insured that she would drift out of the pedagogical laboratories of tenement schools and into the drawing rooms of her upper-crust benefactors. The method was not only something to be taught; it was something to be sold.
Contempt can also resemble philanthropy. In 2018, Jeff Bezos, the richest former Montessori pupil in the world, announced that he was putting two billion dollars into his Day One Fund, dedicated, in part, to establishing “a network of high-quality, full-scholarship Montessori-inspired preschools.” The project has opened five schools in Washington since 2020, with plans to expand into Florida and Texas this year.
Bezos’s vow prompted some early-childhood education experts, including Mira Debs, of Yale, and Joel Ryan, the executive director of Washington’s Head Start program, to ask why a man possessed of two hundred billion dollars would elect to compete with existing, cash-strapped public preschool programs instead of simply giving them lots of money.
The answer may be found on the Day One Fund Web site, which states, “The customer set this team of #missionaries will serve is simple: children in underserved communities across the country.”
Montessori and Waldorf education methods are just two sides to the same prism.
My children attended a Waldorf school for four years. I pulled them after I took a parent course on Anthroposophy. I am super open-minded but I just couldn’t get past my gut instinct that my children were being indoctrinated into a cult of occultism, under the guise of a crunchy education. That’s saying a lot considering I study the occult but I do so from a scientific frame of mind. I want to understand the origins of religion, myth and legend. The Waldorf School touches on all of these archetypes. I’m okay with that. I found the teachers to be odd, I’m not gonna lie. It made me so uneasy.
One thing that makes me think it's a cult is because of how much it costs. Usually if you have something amazing and you have good intentions you want it to reach ppl whereas the Waldorf education by me costs more than I make in a month. That's just one things that gets me about it. But other than that I love it but it sucks knowing it's not really accessable or possible for my kids to do it.
I cant fathom schools actually cost money
Its all free here in sweden, It hadnt occured to me that people in the us had to pay for it
@@beekidsart1176 Are private schools also free? In Norway the Steiner/Waldorf schools are only partially funded by public, the rest the parents have to pay.
It's mainly blame on governments not funding independent schools that don't follow traditional approach. Steiner schools usually desire to be inclusive and offer bursaries but they are limited by the systems they must run in.
Not a cult... you just have to say creepy prayers ín the morning, classes have alters decorated by season, teachers have to be trained about non-sense ezotheric bullshit, three is a handbook about what should be taught to different age groups based on scientifically inaccurate, fabricated data. They have a whole belief-system on afterlife, spiritual development (through lifetimes and incarnations), they have theories about angels, Jesus Christ and other spiritual beings. They are very tolerant people right until you dare to mention any critique on Rudolf Steiner (the founder of their “no-cult”). They have their own way of clothing, interior design, architecture. Often they only value certain types of diet (organic and vegan food is usually prefered, but with trends of specific things often backed up with ezotheric explanations). In elementary school, children are not allowed to watch TV or play with computer games at home- if they do so, parents will be called upon their misbehaviour regarding their parenting. Parents are requested to participate in way more community events than it would be necessary in a normal school. They are almost the same in all of the things just listed above in every school and in every country.
I never been to that type of school, but I don’t want to rely on bad experiences.
After last weeks video, I did some Googling, and I had some questions! You have answered some, thank you!
So happy to hear this! Exactly why I was inspired to make this video.
It’s so rich with beauty! It keeps people oblivious to Anthrosophical’s secrets. The beauty guarantees future adults will come back. You said so yourself: keep what you don’t understand in the back burner for later. Slowly you’ll be comfortable saying that Ahriman and Lucifer want to ultimately help us become free. Soon you’ll be comfortable saying that the Lucuferic forces that enter children at different stages in development is a normal concept
I go to a waldorf school and it is weeeeeiiiird
I hate Waldorf,I go there myself I’m a seventh grader it’s torturer
Allthe classes are shity club things
Pray to Jesus Christ to set you free.
What about it is bad?
why ? my grandchild just started there, please tell me more, i am worried. Thank you
Have you known any Christians, more specifically, born again believers, who have taught at a Steiner school?
Man, if you people are concerned about this, look into the origins and purpose of our public school systems. Their religion is Secular Humanism. I honestly think it seems impossible to not have a moral influence on those you teach so closely-- it's gonna come out one way or another, which is why we ought to pay attention. There are some really nice things about Waldorf and I have no idea why anyone can't just take those things and make it their own. Unless someone is forcing you, there is no need for such a poor attitude....these comments. lol. XD
For whatever reason I am looking for videos, that are dissing waldorf schools. 😏
I have tried to inform you. However they have eliminated my comments. Check EVRYTHING about the maz on k lodge Adyar, that R. S. was leading. Check T e o sof i k l Societ y. You get all the info, if you check it up.
Thank you so much for this information ma'am!! I was able to understand everything you said in all 3 of your comments lol. Except the thing about the Hindu gods/demons I believe
@@gabriellameattray9778 Hello there is so much hidden info about Steiner. He was an "occultist". So he hid most important info. His second, aristocratic wife Marie S. was very well connected to the powerful and satanic elite. Steiner himself was extremely short of economic means and most likely no blood-line. So they would only give him the leadership position of the German maz on ic T. S. for a reason. He had to sign oaths like all mas ons, that he allowed them to kill him if he revealed secrets. And he was actually killed by his own people, first they burnt Goetheanum, then they poisoned him. The reason was Steiner did not stick to their agenda a 100 %. The T. S. was founded in order to eliminate christianity. The method is to mix it up with other religions. Steiner created antroposophy as a branch of theosophy. That went according to the maz oni k agenda. But he talked to much about Christ. Another teacher of Steiner was The od or Re uß. That evil man initiated Steiner 1906 in Egyptian magic, same as Aleister Cro wl ey
practised and the current elite. Eurythmie is a renewed Egyptian dance to invoke spirits (demons) with body movements, same demons as Christ expelled all his life.
@@gabriellameattray9778 The Hindu gods/demons were channelled by M. B. lav. atsk y at first. The region in India where they got them from is called Adyar. That is where the T. S. still has a palace-like building and a study centre. They hate Christianity. So they make up many kinds of "gods" they call "christ-like" in order to create confusion. Steiner had a personal "spirit guide" which supposedly guided Steiner through his works. Actually a kind of "spirit war" broke out between Madame B. and Steiner, as she discovered the spirits preferred to be channelled by Steiner, which was deeply offensive to her. However Steiner talked less about the spirits/demons in his later years, as his defined task was to reach a European public, in order to destroy Christianity in Europe. Therefore his teachings became less "Oriental" and more "Occidental". He would talk more about magic stones, alchemy, the Holy Grail etc than about Oriental spirits
@@gabriellameattray9778 Interestingly enough today 2021 people are so ignorant they can not tell the difference between trying to reach eternal lives by mixing alchemy drugs or accepting eternal life as a gift from Jesus Christ through his sacrifice on the cross. R. Steiner manipulates ignorant people so easily. People end up believing a little bit of mixed chemicals, magical stones and demons in a perfect union with Christ will do the job. I hope God forgives them, because they don't understand what they are doing.
I think the idea that Waldorf is a cult is patently absurd. However I don't know that your recounting of your conversion was particularly good at debunking the myth 😉
However the info about the ability to pick and choose what to adhere to or not to adhere to was a very important point as well as you going over the definition and dimensions of a cult.
Thanks for watching and for your comment, SeaRose. Your comment was interesting to me. I never thought of myself having a "conversion" to Waldorf education. I think of conversion as being a religious experience. My experience, rather, was discovering an exciting method of education that resonated deeply with me. During my Waldorf training, I discovered what it means to be fully human. I learned that as human beings we all have the capacity to sing, to create with our hands, to write, to make art, to move, to make things grow, to play music, and so on. And I learned that when we use these capacities and practice these things, we contribute to the world and find happiness. That discovery for me was a life-changing experience.
Sunday with Sarah I agree full heartedly with your description of the beauty and fullness of Waldorf education. I was being slightly facetious and referring to your story about being unsure whether it was a cult then having your fears assuaged after spending a few weeks intensively immersed in the Waldorf world as it were.....a similar path I think to those who do fall into cults (at first hesitation and uneasiness, followed by immersion in the cult which over a short period of time wins them over to being true believers). But as you said, conversion is more of a religious concept and you were not “converted”, I used the term in jest 😉I am a secular though spiritual person and have found Waldorf education to be an incredible boon to my children’s lives and my own. I love your channel and your bravery to take on thorny topic heads on. I have found so much encouragement and valuable insight in your videos, in particular I felt your video on boys and swordplay to be immensely helpful as I thought through the dilemma of letting my 2 year old pretend play with swords. We homeschool and I try to incorporate Waldorf philosophy and environment wherever possible and this channel really helps with that. Keep up the good work!
@@searose6192 Thanks so much for elaborating. I really appreciate your thoughtful comments. It is a thorny issue, and one that I knew would invite controversial comments and criticism. But my goal was to share my own experience when I struggled with that question, and to shed light on the topic. I can assure you that there was never any sort of indoctrination in the three years I spent in my part-time Waldorf teacher training. At first, I kept waiting for it (based on alarming things I had read), but it never came. As a teacher in training, I was always encouraged to feel free to use what made sense to me, and leave the rest. There was never, in all my years in training and teaching, a requirement to accept anthrosposophy or to identify oneself as an anthroposophist. Never was I asked to sign on a dotted line. Some Waldorf teachers describe themselves as anthroposophists, others do not. As I mentioned in the video, I've worked with Waldorf teachers who are Catholic, Episcopalian, Protestant, Jewish, Hindu, and Sufi. I've also worked with teachers who are Pagan or agnostic. But I think it safe to say that all have gained some degree of insight into human development and inspiration from studying Steiner's ideas. After 20+ years, I continue to draw inspiration from the ideas that make sense to me, and leave the rest on the back burner. I've never felt any pressure to do otherwise.
Go through the teacher training you will see it's a cult. All cults begin with take what you like and leave the rest. You probably don't see it because you're in it, and not all cults are the same. Maybe read some books on cults and you will see some similarities.
How much did they pay you?
Steiner himself said anthroposophy was a religion and taught his teachers to deny that Waldorf was a religion. I taught at a public Waldorf school and it was definitely culty. They kept giving me the line that it was not religious, but that it was spiritual, yet it clearly was.
It’s a cult 1000 percent
Bob Snoopy If you’d like to email me I’m at freyafitzroy@gmail.com. I’m of the opinion that Waldorf is a religion and a cult. I’m trying to get a support group together.
Thank you for the educational video! You are very beautiful and I hope to look like you when I am older.
It is a cult.
You gave a perfect description of being sucked in to a cult. This entire video checks all the boxes of a cult member's experience.
Hi Sarah,
Thank you so much for your video! I’m so grateful for the time and effort you put into all of your videos.
I am learning more about Waldorf and frankly have struggled a bit with the very issue you discussed.
I am a Christian homeschooler and am wanting to incorporate Waldorf into our school.
I would love to attend a teacher training someday, but unfortunately there’s not one anywhere near me.
Thank you again for the blessing of your videos and blog! Your wisdom and insight is so helpful!
This video has put my mind at ease regarding my one concern about moving in this direction. : )
thank you for this great video! I am since 1 year administrator of a small waldorf school in québec canada. I have 2 boys who go to a waldorf school and kindergarten since the last 8 years. from my personnal experience, waldorf schools are not a cult at all. many different religions and worldviews from all over the world and through history are taught to children. i know over 20 children who are now young adults or even parents themself who went to waldorf schools as students and they are all OPEN MINDED, tolerant, modern people who think for themselves and are not brainwashed. My partner and myself are not religious (my partner is a history teacher in high school and a has a scientific mindset) and we are very confortable and happy to send our children to a waldorf school since almost a decade. Yes the teachers do a PERSONNAL and INNER work (spiritually and artistically) and i am so grateful for the loving and deep way the teachers take care of my children. As you mention in your video, there are some aspects of anthroposophy that might not resonnate at all for a teacher, every teacher needs to think for himself/herself what makes sense for him.
This is Waldorf propaganda
choobylipper i totally agree. From someone who is indoctrinated. If you’d like to email me I’m at freyafitzroy@gmail.com. I’m of the opinion that Waldorf is a religion and a cult. I’m trying to get a support group together.
@@freyafitzroy6681 i dont go there anymore but as an autistic person it was very hostile and abusive and was def a cult, thank you for helping others
You are correct.
As a Waldorf student, I can confirm we are not a cult 💀💀💀
BS
Yes you are teaching a religion sorry that you can't see that
If you have to answer the question "Is it a cult?" it probably is.
If they have to say, "we swear it's not religion!" It usually is.
If they say, "Take what you like, leave what you don't!" They usually mean, "If it doesn't make sense now, wait until you're brainwashed enough to believe it."
That sums it up in 1 sentence :)
The lady doth protest too much, methinks.
R. Steiner was a ma zon.
It is good we are learning religions but it is more important to follow Jesus because at the end of our life doesn't matter what education we had but what did we say to Jesus in our life.
/kill@e
No it is not I go there and there it’s just a school but a little bit better we’ll a lot but don’t tell 🤫
What about your first instinct that never lies lady, and if it is not religion why you belive in reincarnation,answere that and you will have right question, you are mess sorry and this video said more about Waldorf as a cult couse you are trying to prove opposite.
great cult!
Gay
? please
theres only one great religion, one of Christ