You Write That Chord How? And Other Music Theory Horrors
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- Опубликовано: 10 янв 2025
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Music theory does not always make sense.
Sometimes it's because the concepts are genuinely difficult and it takes some time to understand them, and then figure out how to use them in your music. This is normal.
Sometimes though, music theory does not make sense because we music theorists made a mess at it. We took something very simple and we made it as hard as we possibly could for no good reason.
Of course, we did not do this on purpose. I hope.
In this video, we are going to see some music theory 'gotchas', starting from the completely illogical way we count the intervals to the notational monstrosities that you can find on Jazz chord charts.
Come and enter the music theory 'gallery of horrors', have fun by laughing at how absurd music theory can be, and learn something useful. What's not to like?
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Your intro always makes me smile! 😁
I just love that too. And the way he tips his hat is so lovely. ^-^
Great conclusion. I like the "there is no wrong or right" aspect of your lesson. Could listen for hours. I enjoyed.
Have joy and be sound.
5:01 It's a Cj7. 7:55 and a Cj9.
semitone note numbers of this system are:
1, -2 (or -9), 2 (or 9), m (or -10), 3 ( or none), 4 (or 11), ° (or +11 or -5), 5, +5 (or only +, sometimes -6 or n6), 6, 7 and j. Easy. And makes sense. At least to me. When training at home alone. If there's a 13 in the original score the composer has been lazy and the chord can be omitted.
Understood the upside down triangle notation for -7 without asking. I like it. Suggesting supplanting it with a V, in order to mess up the roman numerals used in chord position notation. So: 1, b9, sus2, m, 3, sus4, °, 5, +, 6, V and ∆ . In chords V9, ∆9, V11, ∆11, Vb9, V#9 ('the hendrix chord' for rockers) etc. Use slash for inversions only. So CmVb11/III for a chord eb g bb c d e aka Eb6∆b9 (that can be read as base E or Eb...) To be logical, we should write Cm°V (°7) to separate from C°V (c e gb bb). Awful. Ugh.
I'm pretty sure there are some mathematical equations in duodecimal system that could make this mess a lot more understandable. Yeah.
Great Video.
Some of those notations that you wrote have often confused me into thinking that they were something else, such as ; C+9 being C augmented 9.
You made an excellent point.
Here in Brazil we use C7M, (C major 7)because here the adjetives come after the substantives, C7 is a seventh dominant, CM7 does not exist in brazilian notation, Cm7 is C minor and seventh dominant, Cm7M is C minor and seventh major, and so on. Another great video, by the way.
Interesting!
And I'm from Hungary, where musical notation and terminology follow the German model. So for me Cmaj7 is "C dur major 7" where "dur" means the major chord (as opposed to "moll" which is "minor") and the "major" means the major 7th (so in our local notation the note "H", not to be mistaken for our "B" which stands for "Bb" in other countries, and which is the dominant 7 in the C chord, marked with a simple "7"). And by the way when we speak, we call the notes by their alphabetical names, but when they are flat or sharp, we add suffixes to the letters thus creating words. For instance G# is pronounced "Guiss" and Gb is pronounced "Guess". That works for all notes except "H flat" which, as I already said, is not pronounced "Hess" but simply "B". Still with me?
Which reminds me of this other idiosynchrasy of music notation nerds: why do we put the flat ("b") and sharp ("#") signs BEFORE the notes on the standard notation staff, BEFORE the scale degrees in arab numerals (eg b5 or #4...), but AFTER the notes in alphabetic notation (eg F# or Gb)?
The # and b before or after the note/function is another thing that makes me mad too!
@3lc!0 : I understand the language itself would cause that to make more sense. But why then is the minor chord not treated the same way?
@@aylbdrmadison1051 To distinguish major to minor triads, because here major triads are never followed by major signals (M in this case), only minor triads are signeted, so we use only "C" for C major, and "Cm" for minor triads. Seventh are opposite, we use major signals only for Major sevenths, for example C7M (c maj7) C for major triad and 7M for the Major seventh.C#7M is C# major triad and 7 major tetrad. Cm7 is C minor and 7 dominant, because dominants does not have signals at all. Diminished and augmented chords have their rules either Another curiosity here we allways write the chords with C,E,E,F, etc notation, and read it Do, Re,Mi,Fa,Sol, La, Si.We never pronounce C,D, E, F,etc, so is common to us to use this 2 notations together with no problems.Best regards.
This is really interesting topic. I found it myself, when played from a book of pop, jazz songs and it was very irritating to see differnt abreviations for each chord. In the same book!
The 'music world' will never universally agree on a standard - you're absolutely right . Music seems to be doing OK though , on the whole.
I'll tell you what makes me angry: it's that horn players insist on calling a C note a B flat. As a guitarist I don't call an E a C, even though that makes it easier for a guitarist.
I played the baritone horn in middle school and none of us did that? The baritone horn is tuned so that the open note is B flat. We practiced the B flat major and called it exactly that. In solfege you may refer to the root pitch of your reference scale as "Do"that's the closest thing I've heard of a pitch that's not C being called C ,this is common in music theory taught in other languages such as Spanish Italian and French.
It does get frustrating trying to work out different notations, but I don't rant about it. Personally, this is what I use when notating chords: CM7 (C major 7), Cm7 (C minor 7), C7 (C dominant 7), C+ (C augmented). Then, with extended chords: CM9, CM11, CM13, Cm9, Cm11, Cm13.... etc, etc, etc. And for altered chords: CM13#11 (C major 13 sharp the 11)... etc, etc, etc. I think this is fairly straight-forward and easy to understand.... so that's why I use this. I also have no problem with a triangle to indicate a major 7, a minus to indicate minor.
Makes me feel more comfortable being confused. Not totally due to my lack of ability or intelligence.
Great video Tommaso! Thank you
That was fun! I wish I’d seen this video years ago when I first started to learn guitar. This was always a great mystery to me and complicated things so much more than necessary!
Damn right - And before the WWW you had no chance of knowing what was going on.
Great video -- I always assumed it was my lack of understanding and there was a method to the madness. I especially liked your comment at the end of your video regarding your course: @10:35 "we do our theory straight on the fretboard . . . We don't use pianos in this course." There's nothing more frustrating than trying to learn a concept on guitar when the instructor insists on demonstrating the chord or pattern on the keyboard.
There is not A method to the madness. There are TOO MANY methods and that is what makes the madness lol :)
imgflip.com/i/3o24jp
@Tom Hamrick : A keyboard all by itself will basically explain music theory to you if you just stare at it long enough, lols.
@@aylbdrmadison1051 By the same logic the fretboard will explain music theory for you if you just stare at it long enough... :)
Difficulties of music notation are common among jazz players and guitar players, because many do not study music theory and many can't even read music at all but play by ear. Most other musicians have fewer problems reading chords because they've learned the standards. I play several instruments, and have learned proper ways of writing chords and recognize all the foibles as were entertainingly displayed in the video. I recommend the book: contemporary music, level 1, a complete Harmony and theory method for the pop and jazz musician.
I've seen all of those Major 7 notations except that last three. I like the ones that spell out the "Maj" or at least use the big "M" because those make it clear that it's a MAJOR Seven chord.
Ive also seen C M7(add 9) and Em7/C. Yes it’s true. Correct? I don’t know. I guess the point is When I saw them written that way I knew what they meant.
Awesome video and very entertaining to watch!
Thank you for making this video! I learned classical notation and I’m having hard time learning jazz. In your example, I would use I7 for what you call C Ma7. The dominant C chord is V7. I9 for C Ma 9, etc. Also, leaving out the 3rd of a chord is not done in classical.
I love it. The most common I see is Cmaj7 but I don't what they use as long as I can figure it out. Fort the fist time I recently encountered the triangle and I had no clue what he was talking about but when I say him play the chord I quickly figured out he was referring to a Cmaj9. After that, it was no problem.
pretty amazing on how many chord notations are used for cegb really enjoy your input on theory
I can prove that in Brazilian music theory (at least) the Major 7 chord is most often written as C7+ or C7M. Being understood by other country's musicians is really a nightmare sometimes.
The more common are:
C with a triangle
or
CM7 (althought i think ,like a french,that it’s not correct ´cause it’s the 7 that is Maj!!)
I prefer the triangle ´cause it’s eye-catching !!
Great chanel Tommaso,i find it very useful.
The only thing if i may mention it is that most of the times when you talk you write something else on the board and my brain is just unable to process them simultaniously.
"My personal favorite...C with a slashed 9."
My gosh i am laughing so hard my wife asked whats so funny, and its bad because i cannot begin to explain why its funny so im laughing harder!! Hahaha
Haha. Entertaining. Like 5-10 regular ways, and like 4 different jazz ways as well.
I started writing G7 (dominant) with a downward pointing triangle, opposite of the upward facing Maj7 triangle...just to muddy the waters more. Mwuhaha!
Seriously, it might be easiest to just write the chord notes (CEGB)...
Edit: This one friend is a jazz guy (sigh). So everything has to be stupid hard on purpose (it's a jazz thing).
So I'm teaching someone a song in C Major, and I want the Dorian mode on D (D dorian, the second mode of C Major).
So he butts in with "D dorian is just D Major with a flat 4th and 7th".
Why the F would you even bring up D major while I'm teaching a D dorian mode in C major? That's pointless and confusing to the student.
I could just as easily mention that D Dorian is like D Aeolian with a sharp 6th...but it has nothing to do with the C Major song so don't I mention pointless shit. :)
True on modes! ... and then you get the SAME Jazz players making videos on how "learning modes is not a good idea". If they explain them this way, no wonder!
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Lol :)
That downward triangle, tho... There will be a special room for you in purgatory where you'll be forced to listen to Justin Bieber until you purge your sins...
Firther to the notename idea (CEGB), I sometimes use a quasi tablature notation: x3200x. Meaningless for instruments other than guitar and ukelele, but I use it mainly to document which of a number of possible voicings i have decided on. For example Corcovado has an A7(9) - A7(b9) transition. These were originally given as 5x542x and 5x532x, but a transition that I found easier was from x0560x to x0868x.
My personal usage is Cmaj7, or CM7 shorthand, and for augmented Cmaj7#5, for a minor major 7 I use Cm+7.
The 3 + 3 thing is just an instance of counting the E twice!
Yes of course. Why not calling the interval between C and E a "second" and the interval between C and G a "fourth", so that we can do the sum without counting E twice? ;)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar That's what computer programmers do; the first element of the array A is A[0]. "Off by one errors" are very common ...
Thanks for all those notations !
Personally i use the triangle ´cause it’s quick to write and to see it at the difference of letters for the dominant seven !
Bravo, Tommaso. This video NEEDED to be made!
8:42
I could see a hope if enough great and popular musicians (best from multiple genres) give a shout-out to such a new system.
I’ve always come across a variety of ways to notate chords. I incorporate them and look out for the so I can quickly identify said chord.
I’m familiar with most of these - most of these are very intuitive and easy to make a connection - but those slashed through... that’s a new one hahaha
Hello Mr Tommaso
As a french,i use the triangle ´cause Maj7 signifie that
(in France) it’s the chord that is Major but not the 7!!
If not, we can
use
7Maj ,7maj etc...
I make chord notes on mobile phone and use the easiest method possible with characters available. There is no triangle so that's in the bin (Cmaj7 Cmaj9 instead).
Minor chords simple - Am7 Am9 Am7b5 (as that half-diminished symbol is a pain to copy-paste).
For adding a note, I use add or '/' so Bbadd9 C#7/13 (don't be lazy, if there's no 11th and 9th it's not a C#13)
Altered notes use +/- in jazz style or use standard musical notation for those yucky altered dominant chords - Db9b5 or Db9-5 (gets confusing to read with a flat key and flat notes).
Augmented use a + so A+ A9+ Eb7+
But those nasty minor chords with a major 7th, avoid. They're horrible on the ear and easy to get confused Amin/maj7 (what!?!). Just horror
My prefered methods of writing C E G Bb D are Cmaj b7/9 and Im one of those lunatics who use a slashed 9, 11, or 13 if im scribbling down something quickly; slashing the 7 is daft though because a lot of people just write 7 that way.
Generally to avoid confusion it's Cmaj7/9 or if it's minor Cmin7/9 but in this case sometimes I'd write it as CmajMaj7/9. Im a bit pedantic about using 7 for b7 and maj7 for 7 and if it's a major or minor chord ive both been taught to write it for major as C7, CM7, Cmaj7, Cмаj7, and for minor as C7, c7, Cm7, Cmin7, Cмin7. Or sometimes CΔ7
The way I always knew it from guitar magazines and books and such was that C E G Bb D would be C9, and if the B is natural it's Cmaj9
I'll always remember seeing funky chord notation in the scores we'd get handed out in high school.
Very good video Tommaso!
I always understood the „triangle“ as a greek Delta - indiicating a Dominant Chord (containing a minor7) 🤷♂️
And I also know Cj7 for Major 7 Chords.
That's different - I never heard of these notations. Thanks for writing them here! From what country are you?
It's simple, I think. In Brazil, the popular use is the better im my opinion: C+7 because you can write in normal text and so on. In case augmented is C+5, or C+7+5, but this last chord is so rare, and it can written with just E/C cause is the same chord. The second is written C+7/9 and the Jimmi Hendrix Chord is E7/+9. Based on this system all entire scale can be written, for example: C+7/9/13/4 is the Major Scale and implies that you have the Major tetrachord (C+7) plus 9 (D), 13 (A) and 4 (F). The mode Mixolydian is G7/9/13/4 and so on... I think the simple is better, and have one exception the Chord Bº, because the symbol º is very simple to do in any system otherwise you can use B0, but I think is not so much elegant... But I know it's just my opinion..
05:45 A delta sign (Δ) "triangle" in science denotes 'difference'. Obviously both professors were wrong!
However I can understand all the different syntactical notations while originating from different countries and cultures: potatoe/potahtoe. It's however when they interfere semantically when it gets a problem, e.g. the erronious interpretation of the use of the car-horns A,B,C,D in Gershwin's American In Paris. People believed it where A,B,C and D note sounds.
I'm not familiar with this story. I'm curious, what was indicated with A, B, C, D?
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar Quoting Wikipedia: "4 taxi horns labeled as A, B, C and D with circles around them, alto saxophone, tenor saxophone, baritone saxophone, (all saxophones doubling soprano saxophones) and strings.[15] Although most modern audiences have heard the taxi horns using the notes A, B, C and D, it has recently come to light[16] that Gershwin's intention was to have used the notes A♭4, B♭4, D5, and A4.[17] It is likely that in labeling the taxi horns as A, B, C and D with circles, he may have been referring to the use of the four different horns and not the notes that they played. "
Chord notation variants are similar to local language dialects. They are numerous, anti-centralistic and they die hard. To the multitude, you could add the #/b and m7/M6 dilemmas, slash and composite and rich chords with altered or omitted intervals. They become hard to read, and hardly include any voicing info. These days we seem to be experiencing the Emancipation of the chord, breaking free from the 7-note limit, third-ladder and voice leading. Nevertheless, these musicians and composers use Chord notation to describe their chords.... I would love to see a video on notational consistence, how we as individuals name the various chord types. Nobody combines 'C M7' and 'A min7', etc.
I have bad vision and easily confuse C-7 for C7 (which could make sense in many contexts), so I use Cm7 for minor chords. That being said I like keeping things short so I also use C delta 7 for major, and bc I’ve now associated “m” with minor. I hate it when half diminished chords are called m7b5. Like seriously, why not just put a slash through a circle?
In many cases I can just use my knowledge of music theory and jazz standards to guess the chord qualities without looking at chord symbols too closely. For example, F in the key of Eb is usually the root of the ii chord or the V/V chord. If modal interchange is going on I usually use my ears.
A bigger issue for me is voicings. For example, does a Cm11 chord include the 9th as well? I tend towards voicings with fewer notes and don’t think so, but many folks will disagree. If I want to play the 9th as well I’d notate it Cm7(9,11).
Why not use functional notation ? Like : CΔ Dm13 Em7b9 FΔ#11 G7 Am7b6 BΦ and all what is non diatonic with their modal pertinence ?
You are right, I found all these symbols too... That is crazy
8:35 EXACTLY!
Cmaj7(9) is possible too. 😊
That was awesome! Thanks :-)
For me it was always Cmaj7. In Jazz notation the triangle is the standard way imo. Outside of Jazz I've never come across a minor 9th chord so just C9 (meaning a major 9) was the only notation I ever saw :D
I am equally comfortable seeing or writing maj or a triangle. I don’t see why the letters written in cursive is significant enough to be worth mentioning.
My main take away is that there are people out there using the plus symbol to indicate something other than an augmented chord, and I propose that they be tracked down, charged, and tried by a jury of their peers. They must be stopped.
I had people put up a big stink because in one of my vides I used cursive (which is the way I was taught)... I didn't think it was significant either!
MusicTheoryForGuitar
That’s surprising.
I love your videos! Thanks for making them public!
I think this notation issue made me dislike playing jazz piano back in high school. It sure would have been nice if someone just explained that there were multiple ways of writing chords. Anyways, I read an interview where Miles Davis said that learning how to use the flat nine really opened things up for him (or something to that effect). Do you have any idea what he was talking about? I know the flat nine is the flatted two note or the sharped one note but I don't really understand how to use it. Thanks again!
You have a very nice style of teaching. My thought probably isn't "proper" but I would call a CEGBD a Em7/C.
The other systems don’t bother me, but I prefer to write all my stuff as CMaj7, C7, C+7 (Caug for classical), Cm, C° (Cdim for classical), C°7 (Cdim7 for classical), Cm7 (b5), and CmMaj7. The triangle isn’t super accessible when writing with a keyboard (yes it’s doable but it’s not as quick as writing Maj). It causes no confusion, and is easy to type and to write by hand.
I think locally the symbols are consistent, and probably the confusion comes from people from farther distances using different musical dialects, much the same as spoken language. Look at all the different regional names for the same sandwich that exist in america, for example.
Yes, I'm sure this is the case.
Ainda bem que voce aborda este assunto ... porque eu tambem fico confuso...
Also harmonics notation in stave is not consistent.
I use MAJ/min just to avoid confusion for myself when reading back what I wrote 💀
I always use upper case CM and lower case Cm, and a dominant 7 would just be C7 (as opposed to CM7). Simple and clear enough. This is how it was in at least 90% of the books I ever had.
Wise.. 😂
Notation is always there to remind you what to do. If you want someone else to be able to do what you want, well, that's when things get complicated.
The more simple they write the chords the better. We do not need complicated things to understand the chords to play.😊😊😊
I think CMaj7 is quite clear, It cant be confused. Dm7b5 is clear. Em7 is minor 7 G7 with a straight 7 means dominant 7 to me I always use lower case m for minor. It can get a bit nuts with certain jazz chords though Like G alt. Just throw a sharp 9 in there I guess? At least you know its a dominant chord. I like things that work on the keypad, Like Bdim instead of that little circle.
Oh yeah,,, and also I like root, third, fifth, seventh etc instead of major triad being thought of as major 3rd with a minor third or minor triad as minor third with a major third, that is confusing to people even though I understand it.
No wonder I HATE looking at charts!!!
Well, that was stressful.
HAHA, yes :)
C7M is also seen 😊
C7M for C Major 7 here in Brazil. C7M/9
Ok so first of all, the only proper symbol EVER for C9 (or Cmaj9 if you will) is actually Em7/C. Period. (And Maiden rules \m/)
For the rest I love this video. Do more of these! Self-derision by masters like you make philistines like me feel less stupid.
One of my favorite "theory let me down" moments was when I discovered that the fifth mode of melodic minor can be called "Aeolian dominant": for me Aeolian is so intimately related to natural minor that I cannot mentally process the notion of something called Aeolian having a major third. Calling that mode Mixolydian b6 makes so much more sense (also because Mixolydian is dominant to start with).
Oh and the best part is: once I jammed with a gipsy dude who was absolutely amazing. When we asked him "okay what chord did you play right there?" he said: "No clue what it's called, but it's the one that works here." In fact the man was illiterate and couldn't care less about notation. He just "heard it" in his head, and his hands just played whatever "it" was.
Uhm, Cmaj9 and Em7/C are the same thing, without a doubt, but it cannot be the same thing as C9, as a C9 contains a minor 7th (i.e. the notes C-E-G-Bb-D).
From the beginning of the Prime I was confused, because there is no change of 1 but of 0.
And so this problem (shift) gets carried on. So a third goes up 2 and a fifth goes up 4 -> 2+2=4
It would be less confusing this way.
But such problems are not so uncommon in the language. E.g. September is not the 7th (sept) month of the year, neather is October the 8th, November the 9th or December the 10th. As I know because of a shift from March to January as the first month. 🤷🏻♂️
Agreed 100%
As long as it’s clear: Cma7 or any variant of that I’m OK with. But C7? C7+? CM7? You're just going to cause confusion. You’re asking you have clams being played in your chart!
I can tell you, there were several clams when we played that chart...
MusicTheoryForGuitar I’m sure! 😉
MusicTheoryForGuitar It’s totally fine, but I didn’t get the 3+3=5. Intervals can be confusing at first because it’s not really the distance between notes, the system is actually based on the scale degrees. I always tell my students the first note is 1 because it exists. It’s not 0. And it’s really a ma 3rd + mi 3, right? In math 3 is 3, not (3 + >3 = ). We’re actually counting how many notes away is it from a starting point. But yes, depending on how you look at it it can be confusing!
You could call the distance between C and D a "first", the distance between C and E a "second" and so on. That is, you could use the actual distance, not the degree. So in this notation a "second" (CE) plus a "second" (EG) becomes a "fourth" (CG).There is no drawback in doing this, and several advantages (counterpoint becomes much easier, for one). If you need to refer to the degrees of the scale, just call the root the "zero" note (technically we are zero-indexing the scale - nothing strange).
The explanation above is, of course, imprecise. With more space (and time) I can make a much better case based on the math of the chromatic metric + the embedded diatonic metric. But then we will need to go much deeper into math ;)
I learned to use Cj7
Never found this one before... thanks for sharing!
It's a Jeep model...
This was a joke...or did I get whooshed?
Is it a jeep model? If so *I* totally got whooshed :)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar It is a Jeep model...but whether it was a joke or a real rare musical notation is still a mystery I guess. Ha.
There are the "add 9", "add 11" and "add 13“ chords either!
Well, as an engineer I am used to "legends", so if someone says this 🐣 is C, I will play a C everytime I see a 🐣
Here in Brazil I learned to write the C major 9 chord, like this: C9. That simple. The C major seven: C7. If it is a C with a minor seventh we write like this: Cm7
How do you write a C minor 7 then?
I use
C major 9 = C9
C major 7 = C7
C major 7 major = C7+ some people use C7M, I prefer C7+ (more easy to read)
C minor 7 = Cm7
Why the major seventh is not the natural 7 in notation puzzles me..... Why are chords notated from a mixolydian mode??
A good proof that harmonic theory isn't math. Using MOD 12 seems more like math but the 3rd and 6th have so many relationships that it validifies Harmonic representation as more useful. Also of course the inherency of the diatonic scale in the circles of perfect consonance (P4ths and P5ths) make it a winner.
I write it in English so it all bunches up together and confuses people even more. Makes it look like a cryptogram. 🙌
this is why I found it difficult when I learnt about chord notations. one notation could mean two different chord....
4:50 Buddy!! I am trying to write a sequencer!! I am a C++ Developer! wtf!
cegb = C perfect 1 /maj 3/pure 5/maj7/no9/no11/no13/just c4 and D-tonation!
You left some out. I write C Major 7 C "natural sign"7 (sorry, my keyboard doesn't have that sign), and CMaj9 as C "natural sign" 9. At least when I'm writing for myself. :-)
music is born of evolving cultures just like language and slang. educating yourself of the variations, or at least the one that best applies to your give musical culture, is the game.
Another really bothering thing is that a Cdim7 chord does not have a 7 at all, instead there is a major sixth or as you may call it a double flat seventh. But then again, if we take the other diminished sounding chord, half-diminished or minor-seventh-flat-five, that already has a flat seventh. So i kind of understand that the Cdim7 cant have the same sevent as the half-diminished. It is just mind boggling that the dim7 has a sixth. It bothers me.
Rage, rage! The most common ones I've seen are Cmaj7 and C(i can't type a triangle)7. My band leader writes CMA7. Loved the video!
Google "unicode triangle" and copy one of the triangles that comes up. 8-)
In the United States it's known as "Water" In Mexico "Agua" which one is right?
I think we need to have an International Union For Pure and Applied Music Theory so everybody can understand in one way and if it changes it can be updated
As soon as you would establish your Union, somebody else would establish a competing Committee For Theory And Notation And Overly Precise Nitpicking, and they would use a different notation scheme than the Union ;)
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar yeah i think that's ok too like writing a research paper in different formats. APA, MLA etc.
What i find even more confusing is some people are taught Δ means triad
Didn't know that, thanks for writing it. Wow, that must be really confusing!
How about recognizing that different system is used for different context?
What do you mean? As far as I know, there is no different context in which you would use C"triangle" rather than Cmaj7 rather than CMA7 consistently. I'm curious if you have a different perspective on this.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar I'm not sure about these Cmaj7 etc notation per se, but the little i know says I is always the major tonic triad in common practice, but can be either dominant tonic 7th or major tonic triad in Jazz. Maybe it's a similar issue with all those notations?
Yes, different styles may use different kinds of chords. What I am saying in the video is that the SAME kind of chord gets different notations, even in the same style.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar i'm not sure if I get what you are saying. Tonic triad in common era roman numeral analysis is always I, or Neapolitan 6th is almost always N6 (bII6 if you're feeling literal).
I wonder if it's a problem existing only in modern analysis.
You are referring to a notation that indicates the FUNCTION of the chord, used to analyze music. That notation is generally more consistent. I'm referring to a CHORD notation, used not to analyze (only) but to communicate music - that notation is not consistent.
I believe that music notation, that is stuff notation (scores/partitas) or chord symbols, must be
"fool-proof".
What I mean by that is a "notation's" purpose is to help the performer to interpret the above (scores/partitas/chords) as fast as possible.
Has to be accurate and clear.
So far we all agree. But you would be surprised how different are people's ideas on what "accurate and clear" means in practice. I've seen several of the notations in the video justified as THE most 'accurate and clear".
Make a book sale subject for ukulele.
I love your videos
Yer what ever floats your boat... Well Said....
That's nothing! When you think about how any sound can be notated in 12 different ways depending on cleff, transposing instrument, accidental, using staff or TAB etc you will conclude that music notation is the most perverse nomenclature invented by man!
12 different ways is a bit of a stretch
@@TimTrOn3000 It'isn't, there are about 14:Transposing instruments in Ab, Bb, Eb, G clefs:1 and 2 octaves higher, guitar one 8ve lower, sub base clef, F clef, (C clefs): alto, tenor , mezo-soprano, soprano, baritone.
@@bzeliotis moving an octave doesnt change the mote value
@@TimTrOn3000 The "mote" value? What's a mote value? If you play a note on the guitar it sounds an octave lower than the note that is notated. It's a transposing instrument. These notes sound different than their notation. And that's why music nomenclature is so complex.
@bzeliotis : If one moves down a few octaves and cranks the volume, it moves the motes all over the place. Sort of like a reverse vacuum cleaner.
Even though, I have to admit that I get confused by the different notation systems I find it very funny that there are so many systems. You would think that the music community could get together and decide on just one system until you realize that music composers are very individualized people and are by their very nature not part of the main stream thinking mode.
I suspect that there is an unconscious streak of rebellion in most musicians and composers. The good musicians and composers want to do it their way and disdain convention and we (as a whole) applaud them for it. So in effect there's bound to be different notations. Perhaps we should be grateful that there aren't more than what we see in just this video.
So I clicked on the chord mastery and it seems as though you offer a membership but I can’t buy the chord mastery by itself did I miss something
I disagree. There needs to be a large international consensus system. System 15 or whatever. If the main national musical institutions agree on making _an international_ standardation (each country can still use their own. It's about transition - like in science to the metric system or Kelvin etc.) and everybody agrees that the goal is first: practicality (shortness), second: supporting logic and easier theory - then success with quality is completely possible!
Languages, written word and standards change all the time and they often do so for the better and become more practical. There is no good reason to hold on to bad ideas that create obstacles, not least between nationalities. Music is universal and deserves its universal practical language.
That would be nice. So far, nobody was able to gain enough consensus, and not for lack of trying. But maybe you can.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitarI wish. But I don't have connections and I'm no professor. I guess I'll have to write to the resourceful UN - cause they have the knowhow to make consensus that doesn't even exist, lol. They can create the IPNC (Intergovernmental Panel on Notation Change) which will persuade everyone, at least the "progressives". ;-)
And to those who oppose, I'll say, how dare you rob me of my childhood!
I'm not sure how intervals are confusing. Keys aren't points, they are distances in itself, that's why 3+3 is 5.
Yes of course. But why not calling the interval between C and E a "second" and the interval between C and G a "fourth", so that we can do the sum without counting E twice? ;) There would be no problem in doing this.
CMaj9 is, of course, the best. ;-)
The fact that two interval of third make a fifth, denotes music theory started to be developed before the arabic numeral sistem and the idea of zero.
Within some centuries, jazz chord notation will find his stability too... ;)
What is the most common way to write single note one voice octaves changes with out changing clefs?
Like your easy relaxed common sense attitude. As for college professors they will never agree on anything.
8va---------------------| to denote length of octave.
Hilarious ! In fact, I would introduce a new notation, maybe even 2, not even kidding !
You are an evil, evil man! ;)
One more comment about 3+3=5 ... If they're called thirds and fifths, shouldn't that be 1/3 + 1/3 = 1/5 instead?
Well, that works only in English AFAIK because you have un-gendered numerals. In Italian for instance, 1/3 = "un terzo" (masculine) and one 3rd is "una terza" (feminine). In general, in old Italian the masculine indicates the fraction, the feminine indicates a set with that number of elements. I suspect other languages have a similar distinction.
@@MusicTheoryForGuitar This distinction seems a bit strange to me, but then again I don't speak too many languages. (For instance, most of the Italian I know is music terms and food. 8-) )
Doing a quick googling, numbers in German are feminine (unless you live in Bavaria, the Germany's version of Texas), and you have to add a suffix (-te) to get "second", "third", etc., which is what I actually expect. "Vierte" is thus "fourth", which is used for the fraction 1/4 as well as the ordinal number of a fourth, so it's like English.
Spanish has rules similar to Italian, so maybe the Italian usage is a Romance language thing. Russian (and probably Slavic languages) are more complicated.
As long as the notation is intellibelle there is nothing tog argue about
Of course those people were arguing, they're Facebook users :) I'm just happy to learn.
3+3=5 is possible because you start counting intervals from 1, but if you start counting intervals from 0 you get 2+2=4 😀
YES! :) That's exactly what I was alluding to, glad someone got it!
Thats all nothing. I am from Germany and we call the B note H !! The german B is actually a Bb. Thats really confusing.
Bach did that so he could spell out his name in his compositions.
And you barely touched the mess that you get when you replace chords with the solfeg.
That's a can of worms I'm not sure I want to touch...
Whatever if it cant mean two different chords