From Terror to Truth: Growing up in the SSPX, St. Mary's, Kansas
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- Опубликовано: 1 авг 2024
- What's it like growing up in St. Mary's, Kansas, the national hub of the SSPX (Society of St. Pius X)? Christine shares about her childhood and time as an adult spent in St. Mary's and how she found her way home to the Church.
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Dear Christine and Laura,
Please forgive me for the comments I made earlier. I have no right to doubt your painful experience. My experience has not been what you've experienced, but that doesn't mean that what you've shared isn't as you described. I am happy you've found a place of love and acceptance. Please know there are those of us who attend SSPX masses that do not agree with isolationism. Love is the way. God bless you and pray for me as I will for you.
Thank you, Christine, for sharing your experience- you are such a strong woman! May you continue to give hope to listeners. This was a marvelous talk.
Loving these interviews Laura. God bless you both!
Laura, Christine, I absolutely love this.
I would like to note that one of the ways to heal from ptsd is to revisit the stages of your life and Laura, this podcast, what you are doing, not only allows your guests but also your listeners to relate and heal themselves.
I love it! All my respect for these brave woman!!!
Thank you so much for sharing your experience! I am sorry for all of the trauma you have had to deal with your whole life with no help from those that should have cared the most 😢😢
This was a tremendous interview Laura. I live nearby St. Mary's. There is so much reason for hope! The Novus Ordo Priest in St. Mary's that she was referring to is wonderful. I came from the other end of the spectrum (born and raised Catholic that didn't take his faith seriously) and this Priest's example has helped me a lot! Keep it up Christine and I hope to see you at Mass sometime! I will be praying for you.
Teaching for the sspx almost 20 years opened my eyes. I saw how the young people suffer from this toxic environment. They wind up leaving the faith and dont try to go to the Catholic Church because of the error that has been taught. I totally relate to all of this. I pray everyday for all of those still stuck in the SSPX. God bless you! Ihope that you will be able to help others that are too afraid to leave. Welcome home.
I’m kind of new to this, but what is so bad about the SSPX? Besides Novus Ordo types saying they are in schism
@Timothy MacDonnell Not sure myself. But I only go to approved Traditional Latin Masses. Even if SSPX is not in Schism, I am not comfortable in going.
@@Requiescat_in_pace they are in schism
young people leaving novus ordo to.
So glad to be out of the SSPX now as an adult. As I was raising my children I knew the SSPX’s fear based, judgmental ways wasn’t how I wanted to raise my children.
Excellent job Laura!!!!
Thankyou for sharing my family and I recently left the sspx here in Australia after some bad experiences
Miss Happy Catholic many of your guests have such similar experiences as me or my friends in our journeys through and our transition from traditional groups to the Catholic Church. Amazing Grace! Jesus is so patiently loving! I love being a “Recovering Sedevecantist” and in the church Christ founded!
The parenting book "To train up a child" by Mike and Debbi Pearl was widely praised and sold in the parish bookstore as late as 2004. Most of the parents I knew at that time were familiar with it and sympathetic to the Pearl's parenting philosophies. They were big proponents of physical discipline and the book was linked with several child deaths nationally. One parent of a large family came up to me years later and told me he couldn't understand why so many of his kids had turned out badly, in jail, on drugs, teen pregnancies, loss of faith. He had done right as a father - he had always spanked them. What more could a man do???
Hi Therese! I've read the book you mention but there's no way the Pearl's parenting philosophy was responsible for child deaths. They actually have a very balanced approach and distinguish that they advocate for training rather than discipline. Training is calm and caring but discipline is reactive and needed only where training has failed. They emphasize positivity and connectedness with your child and condemn harsh handling or acting out of anger. I just wanted to add that to your comments because much good can be derived from that book (and many of their other books, incidentally). But I do agree that a parent can't say they did all that was needed by spanking their children. Yikes. How many relationship books remind us that you need 5 affirmations for every negative interaction with others to balance it out!? Our kids are so easily downcast by our disapproval. I don't remember being upset after a spanking was over but I was crushed every time my parents said I had disappointed them. :( There's some kinds of discipline that, seeking to avoid physical punishment, do harm that is lasting, where a moderate spanking is over and done with almost immediately (unless, of course, it is administered in anger and to excess).
My parents used this book in my early childhood, I wonder if that's where they got it from. Gosh, I remember when they started applying the practices from it, it was awful. All it did was make I and my siblings miserable and genuinely afraid to do anything wrong. That book really did treat corporal punishment like the single way a child could be taught to do anything.
I remember reading it sometimes, it straight up talks about breaking your kids' wills and conditioning your babies through physical punishment not to bite while nursing. There is some good advice in it, but nothing you can't get other places. Also, I think many parents were introduced to it as a magic solution to all disciplinary problems, and they would just throw themselves full board into the corporal punishment aspect. There's definietely a strong idea in trad communities that the main/only problem with modern families is a lack of hard discipline, so much so that understanding your child's specific emotional needs is overlooked entirely.
@@mrshappycatholicI agree with your assessment of the book but unfortunately too many have gone to the book as a quick fix, glossing over all the MANY parts of the book that says no amount of spankjng will be effective if you don't first emotionally connect with your child and will not be effective if you lose your tempet
That is spot on! I wished more people would hear your story!
The town of Gilford, NH lies about 56 miles from my home. Only 2 things have ever brought me there: the SSPX and surviving members of the Grateful Dead.
This was a great interview, thank you Laura and Christine! I can relate to a lot of what you said, much of the same goes on here at the sspx in Post Falls. Trying to survive as a single mother in the sspx is impossible!! I've been reunited to the Church for three years now, and since then I've found tremendous healing. Hearing other survivors stories really helps, God bless you both!❤️
Oh wow. Did you get shamed a lot publicly being a single mom at church?
I'm sorry that you had such a terrible experience. I started going to an SSPX chapel about a year ago, and my experience so far has been exactly the opposite. The community has welcomed me and has been nothing but kind and friendly even though they know I still attend Novis Ordo masses sometimes and have a diocesan priest brother. We have coffee and food after every mass and visit, have not had a single negative experience. I just thought I would put that out there.
This is so relatable…the religious stuff, the parenting stuff. Hugs to Christine and all finding their way out. 😢
❤❤❤ wow thanks for pointing that out: "The adults/teachers really just despise kids!" That is really on point...
Interesting conversation. I live in Leicester, England, where we have an SSPX chapel. My experience of the SSPX crowd is that they're very much a mixed bag. Some are very judgmental and lack charity, whilst others are warm, good-humoured and pleasant to be around.
❤❤❤ These are amazing interviews, girls! Great job coming out like this; wonderful presentation; I can totally believe everything, as I also grew up under similarly abusive circumstances with the SSPX in Connecticut. We went to St. Ignatius Retreat House/Christ the King Church in Ridgefield, CT. We were 8 siblings, homeschooled by a sadistically controlling hateful woman, who pranced around at church trying to charm all the men, esp. priests! So, it was similarly crazy in different flavors. And thank you for declaring it childhood trauma/"terror". More of us (who somehow survived that environment) should talk about it. A younger brother of ours died in a car accident at 18. Our mother was always "having Masses said for the souls in purgatory" like crazy, but she was actually using the money on spellwork to cause us car accidents, job loss, etc., because she wanted full control over the kids. She "predicted" his death. In fact, all of the negative attitude, gossip, criticism, etc. of the adults is actually black magic, so it's no surprise that it has its effect somewhere! The mother was steeped in dark witchcraft as well as traditional Catholicism, and was also great friends with many clergy, so it really all made sense.
Thank you for these interviews 🙏 I'm so grateful for you and the Logos Project for helping me see the errors of tradism
The lady with the pot on her head. 😊Yes, that would definitely be distracting! I learned so much, listening to Christine's story, and my heart really goes out to her for all she's lived through. In some ways I can relate to the school and Baltimore catechism memorization, and the deep fear of God and Hell. We went to Catholic schools with very strict Nuns, and we were yelled at and hit over the head, many other harsh ways of treating the children. I can also relate to Christine's personality, being an independent thinker and a bit on the rebellious side! I agree that it is helpful in the way of knowing to stand up for yourself and not submit to control or abuse. Christine is truly an intelligent and wise young woman, and it's amazing how well she's doing in spite of the darkness of her life growing up, and the distorted concept of God that she was taught. She is a survivor!
Thank you so much for sharing ❤ God bless you for having the courage to do so!
I had several children in the academy, including one who was there from Kindergarten through H.S. graduation. I would NEVER send any children there again. When Christine said that the people at the Academy despise kids, she is absolutely right. I’ve never seen such a cruel group of people. Don’t believe their glossy fundraising brochures with all the kids with big smiles. It is an awful place.
Thanks so much for making these video. Keep searching for more people to interview. People need to know the dangers of the society
It’s very hard to dissuade people from getting swept up into the little St Mary’s bubble world, because the image it presents admittedly does look nice. But you can’t know its dark side until you’ve been there for 10+ years, by which point it’s usually too late. I’m glad you were able to find your way out and back to mother Church!
Amazing story; I often complain about how RUclips keeps suggesting me (a bog standard Novus Ordo Catholic) rad trad stuff. And yet Christine finds herself back in the Church because she went on RUclips to watch some SSPX videos and the algorithm gives her Fr. Mike Schmitz!! The Spirit blows where it wills!
Sad but true, there are many stories like this, especially coming out of St. Mary's. There are little SSPX communities, like St Lawrence chapel in CT, that are welcoming and have priests that are open to hear what people have to say. There are also priests in the society that struggle with the lack of charity that they see in their school or church. This just seems to be a time of great suffering in the church overall.
There are also Novus Ordo priests that are friendly with some SSPX priests, that is very encouraging. We are all Catholic, we all need one another.
The reason babies were given tiny veils and made to wear dresses in infancy was that you needed to condition them to modesty and veiling at an early age. It was about creating such a strong habit that they wouldn't even think of not veiling. Refusing to let girl babies or toddlers wear pants was because you did not ever want your daughters to have even the memory of pants, lest they rebel against sola skirtura when they were older.
Sola skirtura 😂😂
I laughed out loud at sola skirtura 😂
On a more serious note, I have a friend who was asked if she was getting her 6 month old used to wearing skirts and dresses. She didn’t grow up in tradland and was a bit confused to say the least.
‘sola skirtura’ 😁😁😁….that was cute
Sola skirtura good one. Some parents, at least in diocesan TLM, FSSP, ICKSP have veiled the young girls, never seen babies. Some sister fo and some sisters don't, so it's not forced. But, most I know are because the little girls are taught they are brides of Christ, which the whole Church is (for those who perceive weddings in as much as they can understand commitment), which is beautiful. Modesty and purity and as they get older chastity, should be taught in the young, it was unfortunately lost since at least the early 1900s when the "Roaring 20s" started. Then, of course the 60s🤢.
Re: babies wearing dresses in infancy. They do in the new Mass. Even non-Christians dress their babies in dresses, especially if an important occasion. So that point isn't really just an SSPX thing. Most little girls love dresses.
To be fair, men don’t cover their heads because St Paul said 1 Corinthians 11:7 “A man, on the other hand, should not cover his head because he is the image and glory of God, but woman is the glory of Man.” And 1 Cor 11:5-6 “but every woman praying or prophesying with her head not covered, disgraceth her head for it is all one as if she were shaven. For if a woman be not covered, let her be shorn...” and 1 Cor 11:10 “therefore out the woman to have a covering over her head, because of the angels.”
As for men, Ephesians 5:25, “husbands, love your wives as Christ loves the Church.” Man is to Christ, as woman is to the Church. Since the Church is the “bride” of Christ there is further significance for woman veiling
Great interview: took three listening sessions to get through it due to amount of content. Can't get over the amount of parallels between the more extremist sspxers and scientology - it's uncanny. Like the sspx moved into that part of Kansas, the Cult of Scientology moved into, and completely took over, the city of Clearwater, Florida, permeating the socio-political scene and getting into bed with the local police: now most of the businesses and shops, dentists and chiropractors in Clearwater are owned by scientologists. Also the badmouthing or "black PR" policy when talking about ex members or defectors is neck in neck, even when the the defector is the righteous one (which is always). So too is the fact that when the money runs thin with sspxers and scientologists, so too does their interest in you. Having cult members coming out to visit you and your home to coax you into remortgaging your house or selling off some of your assets so you can give the proceeds to the cause (the cult)
Another thing: just like how Christine worked at Angelus press: scientology also has a publication company called "Bridge publications" in which they pay their slave-labour cult-member staff a token wage, because they were told that they're working for the greater good (the cult), and also encouraged the less well-off members to go on welfare to supplement the pittance they were expected to live on. I could go on, but you get the idea. Actually, a more important thing which sspxers and scientologists have in common: family disconnection was highly encouraged in scientology also, should a family member have an independent thought outside of cult-think. Very sad to see that this is the case in the sspx as well. Fortunately, to my knowledge, none of the parishioners at my local sspx are that way inclined, but the sheen is starting to wear off since having discovered interviews such as this.
Very interesting. My family was part of the real original families, having moved there in 1980. They were disillusioned pretty quick and left, along with several other families (but remained in the area). The sad thing I remember is the way the SSPX treated anyone who left. I know children who never spoke to their parents again, people who lost jobs over it, and people who were denounced, by name, from the SSPX pulpit. For the most part, we are still practicing Catholics and I hold no grudges.
For such a "trad" society, I am very surprised that they detest homeschooling! The trad (in the truest sense of the word -- which I also identify with) friends I know are so for it.
I do not attend Masses with the SSPX, but I have attended many Traditional Latin Masses and I have enjoyed them all. Most so-called Traditionalists aren't lunatics or extremely uncharitable. Btw I see many women wearing veils at New Masses. I personally don't care either way. But it's not something exclusive to Traditionalists.
It's exclusive to Jesus truly Present in the Tabernacle, no matter where He is!
My best friend is from St. Mary's. Her parents still live there. She's basically in mourning about what has happened to her home town. Heck; the SSPX even closed the town's swimming pool, and demolished it! I guess it was "sinful."
Another of my friends (it was the three of us; still is...) was also from St. Mary's. They'd been best friends in High School. Now she was Catholic, and got married in that gorgeous Catholic church. I've never talked with her about the situation in town with the SSPX. She's pretty conservative, but I can't imagine her being in favor of it.
The bottom of the pool caved in actually😂I live here in saint Mary’s
@@elaineconness7715The SSPX controls the City Commission here. Only those people that SSPX leadership approves of get elected. The city is being ruined by these nuts. They closed and demolished the pool, shut down the golf course, & sold off park land near the new church to developers. The only thing the city does is improvements related to the new church, like new sidewalks leading to it.
@@annsergent2008It’s funny. Almost all other small towns in Kansas somehow afford public pools. The liars on the City Commission used “repairs” as an excuse. They were trying to close it for years. They saw their chance when Covid came. They shut it down and quickly demolished it to prevent it from ever opening again.
This sounds protestant!
It is! Traditionalism is the Protestant reformation 2.0. It's crazy how they use the same rhetoric. Marcel Lefebvre and Martin Luther definitely had more in common than their initials... :P
We literally follow catholic teaching as it has always been. How could that be Protestant?
@@ServusChristi777Indeed nothing could be further from the truth. Luther was not obedient for subjectivist reasons. The comparison is ridiculous for anyone who knows about who Luther was and what he did
This has been very instructive.
I live here in St Marys, and stopped going to mass a few years ago. I'm 64 and feel like I've finally opened my eyes that there is no god at all. Maybe being an extremist led me to lose the faith, I don't know. I still haven't told my husband what I believe while everyone around me is still in the sspx. Thank you for sharing your experiences.
I'm praying for you. He is there and wants your heart desperately. 🙏
Thank you for sharing! We'll be praying for you, friend! :)
Appreciate the sentiment. I am the most peaceful and happiest I have ever been. hugs!@@mrshappycatholic
27:37 It so happens, the story is a four year old in the time of Pope St. Gregory the Great uttered a blasphemy and immediately died after doing so.
Pope St. Gregory first inquired into the circumstances, the boy had been conceived in a night before the parents were going to and supposed to go to Church, he concluded that as punishment for this, the boy had become a sinner and damned himself.
How would the boy be at fault for being conceived out of wedlock? That makes no sense.
I would not be sure it was the case. St. Alphonsus wrote about a boy who learned to swear and blaspheme from his father, and there was one last straw that broke camel's back then he died and went to hell. I may be wrong at details here as I say completely out of memory. The book was called "Preparation for Death" or so.
🙏
Where I go, they hand you a veil. I thought it was a sign of humility and devotion as well as tradition. It’s been like that for over a thousand years.
It is definitely a sign of humility and also it marks the woman as sacred (being that she has the potential to bear life and whatever God touches is sacred). However you should understand that in the town Christine is from, and which I am also from, from your earliest memory they tell you you just cover your head because it is wrong to not do so, and those other NO “Catholics” don’t veil and it’s wrong of them to not veil. And also on top of that they never teach you the reasons behind veiling except “you’re a woman and that’s what real Catholic women do, and the Bible said so, so just do it.” It then becomes something you don’t love and value but another thing that you’re going to be shamed for in the case that you forget your veil on the day of a school Mass, for example.
Except in Spanish countries, the lace veils only go back to the 60s. Before that women wore a variety of headcoverings, ranging from large bows to scarves, little hats, big hats, fascinators. They wore what was socially normal for their time and place.
@@theresed5967 true. But the women always had something on their heads. So Easter bonnets were acceptable for easter. Similarly, the guys typically had jackets and of course were hatless in Church.
@@clelia8885 So there was no catechism in your home or school or church? And there was no researching your faith on your own? Is the SSPX to blame for that or your upbringing? In our home the children are taught the faith as babies. And veiled as babies. And every traditional church I have attended has had some sort of pamphlet explaining modesty. Even the chapels. Regardless, as children, every question does not need to be answered, trust in the parents is formed as a stepping stone to their relationship with God.
@@76katster I’m not sure where you got the idea that we didn’t have Catechism in our home, school or church. We were taught the catechism but only the rule part not the why behind it (it was all head/memorization and no heart). When there is no expounding on the base layer of memorization, along with many other factors that were in our circles (including lots of fear of hell pushed when you’re very young - everything is the devil- instead of focusing on God and His Love and how we should have a relationship with Him), then one mostly does things out of “I have to so I don’t go to hell” instead of “I want to so I can go to heaven and see God”.
There is way more to unpack than what a comment can give. But the gist of what I was trying to say earlier was that regarding veiling they didn’t teach us the why behind it, and adults I knew didn’t know why either. It was just because you had to.
Also, the SSPX pushed that you could only come to them with questions on faith and moral as the visible church is not to be trusted (as they do not hold the “pure faith” according to the SSPX). They also teach that you cannot question the things they (the SSPX) tell you. If you asked questions you were no longer in their favor and would treat you ask such. And so one learned to not ask questions and accept everything one was told.
It was actually years after highschool that I learned the reason for veiling and it was from a non Trad actually.
I spent 14 years of my life in their schools (1-12 grads and then 2 years of college) and I can definitely say it was the SSPX. Because my parents also fell under the same “you can’t question things.” My mom would try to answer but she also always had a baby and I would feel bad asking her. She did teach us to love God when we were little but the school overshadowed that greatly with the fear of hell factor l. And my dad always gave the answer of “it’s what the church teaches”.
And the only explanation we were given for modesty was “you are going to lead boys and men into sin unless your clothes look exactly this way and it’s the way we tell you”. There was nothing about how our bodies are actually good and beautiful and we must be attractive as well as modest, and that modestly goes deeper than just what you wear externally.
I started studying my faith more when I met my husband (who was not SSPX) and realized I didn’t actually understand why I believed what I did and why I followed certain rules.
I was involved with St Mary's starting in 1999 up to 2017. Went through the Academy and the College. You can tell a cult by the way they respond to criticism. Christine is spot on!
Wow! Sad and shocking, This was very good information. Thank you both.
I have a question- did your guest have to go through RCIA to begin going to Catholic Mass again? Does the Catholic Church accept the sacraments she received at sspx ? Baptism, First Communion, and Confirmation???
JMJ
Hi! The Church accepts the Sacraments of the SSPX as valid (but illicit, because all their clergy is suspended, so when they celebrate Sacraments outside of Confession and Marriages only with permission of the local bishop, they commit a sacrilege and so do those who participate in them). And because basic catechism is pretty well handled in the SSPX attending RCIA would not be necessary, although in some cases it may be recommended. All that is required is for a former SSPX adherent is to confess their involvement and make a profession of Faith before a priest from an actual diocese and they are considered in full communion with the Church. :) Hope that helps!
Thanks! Was just wondering. I’m a bit familiar with SSPX background .. i suspected rcia was likely unnecessary. :)
Also- I always feel bad for these very devout protestants, who spend years studying the Catholic faith, know everything backwards and forwards, and then have to go through rcia lol. They usually know for more than the person in charge of RCIA.
I felt very fortunate - I was a former Catholic, and had received all the sacraments, and spent many years away from the Catholic Church.. When I decided to revert, I was very relieved that all I need to do was go to confession, actually, a very long confession lol.
I live in the Kansas City area; there is an SSPX church in Kansas City proper (not far from my old apartment) and St. Marys is about 90 miles away. I'm a Novus Ordo convert so my proximity to SSPX institutions stoked some curiosity. I'm happy to have found these videos but I feel so sorry for the SSPX schoolchildren I've seen out and about.
Oh man these stories are better than True Crime lol. I'm listening to all these survivor stories now. Glad to see more people speaking out. I was in it for a decade when I met my ex. Got to meet Williamson, Zendejas, Fellay and Tissier during the time. What a trip! 🫠
I'm so happy you got out Christine! Here to back up what you say. It's true. I've seen it.
1:06:47 Welcome home!
These conversations are so important. Everyone thinks the SSPX is the future of the Church…..how little they know.
They’re just going to keep splintering into other groups, just as the Protestants have.
Yeah I don't think schismatics are the future of the Church...
Didn't Pope Francis say the SSPX is not a schismatic group?
@@JeepGuy3 No. No he did not.
@@JeepGuy3 In fact he said quite the opposite.
“The faculty - granted by the indult of the Congregation for Divine Worship in 1984 and confirmed by St. John Paul II in the Motu Proprio Ecclesia Dei in 1988 - was above all motivated by the desire to foster the healing of the *schism* with the movement of Mons. Lefebvre.”
59:16 It could also be, the SSPX in Paris is judging me for being homeless.
It would be easy to end it, I am writing, but some won't touch the writings of a homeless person.
Could it be a clue to SSPX of Paris? The famous "Saint Nick" as I think people in US pronounce it?
Maybe.
I hope you are alright. Please keep praying and persevere.
10:17 interesting. (Here watching as a sede)
I think the guest had a bad experience because of some really bad people in the SSPX. My experience was nothing like this at all. The SSPX promoted, and still promote homeschooling children as an alternative to good Catholic school. All the priests I know heavily promoted reading Sacres Scripture. I know there are certainly some weirdos in the SSPX communities. No doubts there.
It is probably a good thing that she had bad experiences that led her out of the SSPX, because most of them are probably in schism. That’s why I left them.
You cannot refuse submission to the Roman Pontiff and claim to be good Catholics. There is nothing traditional about that!
I do pray that one day the Society will submit to the Roman Pontiff, gain canonical status in the Church, and do some real good! They’re doing the Church no favors by refusing submission to Her head, the pope. It’s just not Catholic!
God bless your guest who got away from that group, and we should all pray for the schism to heal.
Interestingly, Angelus Press has books in the catalog written by adherents of Opus Dei which flies in the face of an entire Angelus Press magazine issue of September 1995. "Opus Dei: A Strange Pastoral Phenomenon" was very critical of Opus Dei but for the wrong reasons. The critique would have been justified if it spoke to the high demand, thought control issues that are prevalent in Opus Dei. Maybe those highlights would have seemed eerily familiar to its readers.
As per usual in trad circles, the “fruits” are primarily measured in the external forum. “Look at how many members we have! Look how many children people have! Look how many chapels we’ve opened!” That’s as may be, but as Christine said, the drugs and alcohol and abuse far outweigh any “fruits” like this. Not to mention decades of invalid confessions and marriages, separation from (and rejection of) the local bishop’s authority, elitism, etc. I agree- the “fruits” point is a laughable one.
Also it’s HILARIOUS to me that they blacklist priests who leave because they were “disobedient to their superiors.” What a massive lack of self awareness.
Misshappy the veil wasn't abrogated. Though there is no equivalent canon in the 1983 code, current law is, therefore, silent on the issue of women covering their heads in church. It does not mean it is abrogated.
The 1983 Code is very clear and directly contradicts what you just said, MJK:
"Can. 6 §1. When this Code takes force, the following are abrogated:
1/ the Code of Canon Law promulgated in 1917;
2/ other universal or particular laws contrary to the prescripts of this Code unless other provision is expressly made for particular laws;
3/ any universal or particular penal laws whatsoever issued by the Apostolic See unless they are contained in this Code;
4/ other universal disciplinary laws regarding matter which this Code completely reorders."
Can't get much clearer than that. And from the Introduction, here is a hint to why perhaps that particular canon was excluded from the current Code:
"3. To foster the pastoral care of souls as much as possible, the new law, besides the virtue of justice, is to take cognizance of charity, temperance, humaneness and moderation, whereby equity is to be pursued not only in the application of the laws by pastors of souls but also in the legislation itself.
Hence unduly rigid norms are to be set aside and rather recourse is to be taken to exhortations and persuasions where there is no need of a strict observance of the law on account of the public good and general ecclesiastical discipline."
While the new Code does not discourage the wearing of veils, it leaves women free to practice it without putting pressure on them to do so. It allowed them to rediscover why veiling was practiced in the first place, and to discern whether that was a good that fostered their faith and devotion or not, depending on individual circumstances.
57:37 It is somewhat funny in the way of disconcerting ... in Paris, when an SSPX leaves for the Sedes, or vice versa, it is usually respected.
But when an SSPX or Sede leaves for Pope Michael, he's treated like an outcast, if that's what's the problem.
I'm an ex-Palmarian, and learned a few seconds after leaving Palmar de Troya that the "Pope's" conversion from Chippendale dancing wasn't a final farewell to homosexuality, _but_ in the SSPX:
* it seems to be presumed any Palmarian was involved in it;
* AND that other sedevacantist popes (or Orthopapists) are just the same.
Do they still make people sign those modesty pledges that say they can't associate with those who dress immodestly?
I've never seen or heard of that from anyone. Nor would I sign one if they wanted me to.... that is ridiculous that would even ask people to do that.
I attend SSPX, am a woman, and have never heard of such a thing.
The 4 year old in hell story reminded me of one of the incidents that led me to leaving my FSSP parish and the Latin Mass entirely a few years ago and that was hearing a then friend (who graduated from Thomas Aquinas College in California) telling us that the real reason we had to be opposed to abortion is because according to Augustine non baptized babies went straight to hell because of Original Sin, that really made me question the goodness of God when nothing else did
I stop going SSPX 2 years ago. I only attend Traditional Latin Mass only but either FSSP or ICKSP or Archdiocese Indult.
Will not go back SSPX either
This interview opened my eyes to a side of the SSPX I didn’t know about. Thank you to both of you.
Sspx will be a full blown sede group in 20 years. The sspx church i just left has a bunch of sedes in it and alot of people toying with the idea
All the people you’re interviewing are all sharing a story that is easily corroborated. I’m just stunned at all the abuse going on that other Catholics have no clue about. We thought it was all focused in the Novus Ordo parishes…no way. In some regards it’s worse at St. Mary’s.
There is a lot of abuse, it’s very horrific. Many of the parishioners don’t think you can speak of it either. The SSPX tries to hide it as best as possible. It’s very unfortunate that, while diocesan priests who abuse can be held accountable, because the SSPX priests refuse to cooperate with the diocese they just move the priest somewhere else and there is no accountability.
It’s way worse in the whole of the SSPX over what goes on in the Church. I wasn’t raised in St Mary’s and saw the same exact thing in every SSPX Parish I grew up in and attended.
What's worse is everything looks so pristine on the outside in Trad land. For example: So many newcomers to traditionalism will say things like "Oh, the children are so well-behaved and respectful in SSPX families! They never fuss or complain ever." But that is often due to fear and repression, not good upbringing.
Not explained? Because the holy tabernacle is present!!! Because holy images and things are veiled and woman have the God given ability to create life! The tabernacle holds the bread of life and is veiled. Woman are veiled because they can create life!
Woman do not create life, only God creates life within a woman by providing a soul, which is the life of each person. Man and woman provide the flesh. Woman veil because their beauty is a gift from God, and as woman, we bring forth life, pure and awesome gift. We are veiled because we share in the mystery of life with God. Relevant to the mystery of the Most Holy Eucharist that gives us life. There is so much more to this, just wanted to touch upon this and let your reader's know only God creates. We share in His creative act through the mystery of the pure sexual union of love, a union between man, woman, and God.
I grew up in st Mary's and there was so many horrible things I've herd of about this church
20:45 _"you cannot homeschool"_ he was told?
Anti-Traditional to the core!
Sounds like mormans
It’s too bad your parents were heavy handed. The douay Reims is the correct interpretation from the Latin.
Milo Yiannapolous has said Effeminate men are attracted to the TLM Mass for some reason. Did you find this to be true with the SSPX cult ?
No. I think rather they are exaggeratedly into an almost cliched manly culture centering around power, dominance, suppressed emotions, guns, alcohol, cigars, etc.
Lol. I have never seen this in approved Traditional Latin Mass communities. I doubt SSPX would be much different. I mean, there might be an occasional young man who is slightly feminine. But you see this at the new Mass too. Everywhere
I’ve seen it but it’s only a segment. A lot of the men are dominating alcoholic abusive narcissistic creeps.
No i dont see that
Says the gay guy
Aside from all your spinning, I do gain insight from the guest.
You just don’t need to do all the extra! It’s very distracting!
Miss Happy gushing and edging on guest.
The gasping and OH MYs and hehes.
Obviously very, very bias.
I'm sorry if you found it distracting. I'm all for people making and posting their own videos and stories, but they often feel it helps to have someone help them organize their thoughts and prompt them/discuss things with, so we use the interview format. As far as the bias you speak of, you're welcome to your opinion of course, but as a result of everything I have seen and heard working in this apostolate, I've learned how things roll in these Trad groups and it's impossible for me to completely lay that aside when discussing their behavior and treatment of others. If you watch some more of the interviews on my channel, it may help you understand why. But I am sorry for irritating you and detracting in any way from Christine's presentation of her story. God bless you 🙏
@@mrshappycatholic I get it. Your bias is totally understandable. And your content is very useful. It’s important for you and your guess to have a voice. The platform you provide is needed. Thank you.
And thank you for understanding the “annoyance.”
I guess you’re doing the best you can!
Thank you for the charitable response!
Good job.
*guests
@@mrshappycatholic sweet girl, patience of a saint you've got