I know there aren’t huge numbers of views on these videos (yet), but I think you’re doing a tremendous service to the Church in getting the other side of the story out there. Self-styled traditionalists are tearing the Church apart, largely on the basis rumor and misinformation. Even figures we thought were solid, balanced men are now flirting with schism. Please keep doing what you’re doing!
Just found this channel. Former SSPXer who married a long term SSPXer. It didn't work out. Stop following all the trad news for the past several years and just checking out things again on a whim and lo and behold their's scandals galore and survivor stories coming out. Yep yep and YEP. Doesn't surprise me a bit. Great service you're doing and keep it up! People need to hear this! Like all cults people that speak up are ignored, marginalized or silenced.
Yoooo this was hilarious and soooo TRUE. Omg I love how you guys bounce off each other and the sarcasm and laughter had me deceased 😂💀 If you've gone down the rabbit hole you get all of this.
I attend an FSSP parish. The Mass there is part of what lead to my reversion to the Catholic Church (I had been Protestant for 17 years). I definitely find myself inclined towards the pre-NO sacraments, the TLM being one of my favorite parts. I also find myself becoming very frustrated with certain statements from Rome, especially under Pope Francis' pontificate, *particularly* in the last 4 months or so. Stories like yours are a reminder that pre-Vatican-II practices are not an antidote to chaos and spiritual abuse. Please pray that I may maintain a spirit of humility and submission to the holy father and the Magisterium, and that I don't let a veneer of "traditionalism" become my idol, or even a substitute for true, Sacred Tradition. I will pray for Veronica, her family, and anyone else who has been hurt by those whose anger at the Church since V-II resulted a schismatic attitude.
Thank you to both of you for bringing these difficult topics to light. Fear drives people to extremes. It's so hard to let go of fear and anxieties - and of trying to control them with severity and endless rules. Cults and cultish groups all have fear as their base. And they work to instill and teach more fear. When the saints tell us otherwise: "Love and confidence" (St. Thérèse) "Perfect love casts out fear" (St. John).
Wild ride listening to Veronica's story. I fear deeply that many people will end up on a similar road. Where we eschew too much and then our kids feel like we "betrayed" them or something. My wife and I are working very hard to raise our kids as faithful passionate Catholics, while avoiding the pitfalls of the liberals or the radical traditionalists One thing I would say is in regards to your discussion at about 1:18:00 about bringing the Church to people. I find so many TLM attenders think that if they just bring people to the TLM that will convert them. And hey, maybe it will! But I don't think it's just a magic conversion machine. They have a very idealized sense of the missal of 62, and that its some magic antidote against errors.
Wonderful interview, Veronica! I love how you pointed out that the liturgical abuses were as present before as they are today. If anything, because the newer missal mandates the full, conscious, and active participation of the laity, abuses are much more obvious than they were before, which creates the false idea the there were no abuses before.
The whole mindset of "protest" and "schism" is what brought us the Protestant "Reformation." Ideas have consequences. More videos like this should be put out.
So relatable when Veronica was talking about being exposed to things in the world with absolutely no tools to deal with said things…. So sad and so wrong.
I think ppl went into that mentality because they were trying to protect their children’s innocence which is always an admirable thing. Unfortunately it resulted in a very hyper sexualized culture in a lot of places. Jesus had full knowledge of the world but I think we would all agree that he was the most innocent among us.
I'm actually an Orthodox catechumen now, but I'm fascinated by some of these stories. The SSPX seems really normal at first. It probably would have been a good movement if there wasn't a weird puritan vibe jimmied in. Never been a Catholic, but I've been in some high control situations, and there are some interesting parallels.
Things seem to get weird as soon as we think we know better than the Church... Doesn't matter if it is modernists who want to tear down all rules and dogmas to be free to follow the world as they please, or traditionalists who think if they do everything just right, God will be pleased with them. Both take the eyes off of Christ and look to themselves😔
Fascinating interview/conversation. Real sad the relationship she has with her family now. It also brought back some of my memories of all the controversies that were raging around the parish from 2012-2015/16. I also want to say that the people who I became friends with or that I interacted with in my own social circles, were some of the nicest, open-hearted people I have ever known. And some of the most cherished memories I have are of the friendships I made there. So not everyone is mean-spirited, which seemed to have been applied at one point in the conversation. Having not grown up in it and having converted into it as an adult and having been in it for only a few years, leaving the SSPX was pretty easy for me. I simple stopped going. Anyway, I’m glad to hear that she goes to a church now where she feels happy and at peace.
People who end up converting to the SSPX have a VERY different experience than children who are born and raised in the cult. I was born and raised in the SSPX and though there are a lot of “nice” people, that part is not prevalent in the child/teen/young adults life when they are just trying to survive with constant scruples and feeling everything they do is critiqued and looked down upon and considered a sin by the adults in their life and the Society as a whole. There are also a lot of “nice” people in the SSPX who hate the Pope. All this to say I hope you recognize that there is a huge difference between one deciding to adhere to the group as opposed to being born and raised in the group. Most all of the “nice” people I knew and were raised around in the SSPX including my own family refuse to talk or have anything to do with me now as they consider me a modernist apostate since I have come into the Church. “Nice” is very superficial for many and I would venture to say most SSPX adherents.
@@AnaMT1985 100% agree with this. And the vast majority of its defenders these days are people who have found them within the last 5 years or so. They have no idea about the issues under the surface, and unfortunately probably won’t until they’ve been entrenched in that environment for another 20 years or so.
@@AnaMT1985 Yes!! This is 100% spot on. I’d also like to add that it’s so difficult even bringing that up to people because then you’re seen as “projecting” your trauma onto people. In reality, you’re just trying to warn them about the very real dangers in creating a lifestyle based in the SSPX and not the Catholic Church.
@@AnaMT1985 Yea, I can believe that those who join the SSPX do see things and experience things in the SSPX differently than many of those who grow up inside of it. And even though I don’t know you, I am sorry to hear about the shunning you have received from those who you have grown up among.
I happen to attend both versions of the mass. I have come to really like the Latin mass. I can't speak for the SSPX but I attend a ICKSP parish and I really dont see a lot of this. It's unfortunate we have to make 2 hour videos for stuff like. If most Catholics lived their faith, we wouldn't have to.
Hi Laura, at the 40 min section you and Veronica are talking about her family that questioned everything the priests were saying... I know families like that who only attend the SSPX because they believe the sacraments are valid, but the priests could be speaking possible heresy, you never know. You have to check what they say by old catechisms and documents, etc...!!!!!
Thanks for the interview. I’ve never been a tad, and I’ll be honest I’ve never been interested, except for maybe wanting to go to a Byzantine mass though right now I live in a community where there is not one for another two hours and even then I have plenty of masses close by. Honestly, I’m glad that this community exists for people and I’ve often been somebody who doesn’t hate the Latin mass at all, but feels that the community is the huge problem and I think that happens especially when you have a community that not only is resistant to change, but is afraid of any change. Yes changes hard and many times their instances were change isn’t good, but cases were changed can be good and can bring glory to God. I think this is the problem that happens in a lot of areas, and I think for those in these traditional groups, they see any change as horrible. I also think that in a way, they wrap themselves up and identity like many people in the modern world do in regards to politics or gender identity, or any of that other stuff that frankly leads us away from God. One last thing I realize is that these type of abuses have been going on forever and well before Vatican too. I remember asking this along time ago on a Catholic Answers forum, and people said that there were liturgical abuses in the middle ages and the Renaissance, and basically at all times. They have always been these abuses. There is nothing under the sun. I understand the tread mindset, because for many it would be disconcerting, but I also wonder if maybe they got so worked up, and the minute they saw something bad at a mass, or saw a bad mass at another parish, or with another priest, they just assumed things were going horrible, rather than thinking, logically, and saying well my parents doesn’t do this, or finding a parish that didn’t have those issues. this is what really gets me because there are people who drive so far to a mass, or find so much to nitpick, that they see anything as an abuse. I’m not going to say that things don’t exist, and obviously we can all do better, but I could name maybe two or three masses that were truly heretical and where I doubted, how legitimate it was and one of those in Germany of all places that’s three out of the hundreds of masses I have attended in my life.
Lead by example and with a servants heart. So many of us were raised to think that the Catholic Church was a different religion and the SSPX itself was a part of our identity. They are to the true Catholics. Suggesting they are wrong is looked at as akin to heresy. Actually living your Faith daily will go a long way in convincing he/she that NO Catholics are not the apostates they’ve been led to believe.
The perpetual novina things kinda remminds me of the story in acts of Paul's enemies making a vow that they would'nt eat or drink till they murdered Paul Acts 23:12-13. One wonders how faithful to this vow they were after it became imposible since St. Paul was sent away to Rome. Of course in your case even such misguided a prayer could still be helpful because of the sincerity of intention.
9:20 I'm not an SSPXer, but from hearing tapes of Fr Hesse, their stance seems to be the following: "As far as validity - NO mass in Latin is valid, NO in English is doubtful. Either way, the NO mass is illicit, so it's a mortal sin to attend".
I remember Fr. Joe Pfeiffer fondly, when he was assigned to St. Michael the Archangel (SSPX) in Farmingville, N.Y. His consecration as a bishop is highly questionable, in fact, probably INVALID. 1. The validity of the consecrating bishop is in serious question; 2. the essential words were slurred & extra words were added, i.e. a defect in form; and 3. there was NO laying on of hands, i.e. a defect in matter, which was taught by Jesus Himself, as recorded in the Gospels regarding Holy Orders. My .25 cents worth.
People like this treat Holy Orders and episcopal consecrations like drugs. As long as you know a guy who can provide them, who cares if they’re licit or not? They’re valid, and they get the job done. Forget about their immense theological significance as it relates to the unity and juridical structure of the church. Trads love to tout the “priest against priest, bishop against bishop” part of whatever prophecy that was, failing to see that they’re doing that exact thing.
Somewhere in the 15 to 20 minute mark your guest is talking about problems with some SSPX sisters.. what exactly were they doing wrong? There is not enough explanation… not all of us know all the rules of sspx world. Is she saying the sisters shouldn’t have been helping set up things for Adoration after Mass??
So many of the early on folks are not at the local chapel any more. I saw so many of those who became the homeschoolers, looked down on and ostracized.
25:10. She says she decided to go back to the resistance.. did she just mis-speak? You seemed to correct her. This whole interview is difficult to follow. You guys seem to think viewers know all these sspx code words and terms.. I end up making assumptions about what is being said in a few spots.
Hi there! That comes from a misstated story from before he was Pope. Since becoming Pope he has affirmed multiple times that the SSPX is schismatic. This article gives you a comprehensive overview of all the papal statements since the SSPXs inception. www.trueorfalsepope.com/p/who-sent-you-keeping-all-complicit.html
I know there aren’t huge numbers of views on these videos (yet), but I think you’re doing a tremendous service to the Church in getting the other side of the story out there. Self-styled traditionalists are tearing the Church apart, largely on the basis rumor and misinformation. Even figures we thought were solid, balanced men are now flirting with schism. Please keep doing what you’re doing!
Just found this channel. Former SSPXer who married a long term SSPXer. It didn't work out. Stop following all the trad news for the past several years and just checking out things again on a whim and lo and behold their's scandals galore and survivor stories coming out. Yep yep and YEP. Doesn't surprise me a bit. Great service you're doing and keep it up!
People need to hear this! Like all cults people that speak up are ignored, marginalized or silenced.
Yoooo this was hilarious and soooo TRUE. Omg I love how you guys bounce off each other and the sarcasm and laughter had me deceased 😂💀 If you've gone down the rabbit hole you get all of this.
I attend an FSSP parish. The Mass there is part of what lead to my reversion to the Catholic Church (I had been Protestant for 17 years). I definitely find myself inclined towards the pre-NO sacraments, the TLM being one of my favorite parts. I also find myself becoming very frustrated with certain statements from Rome, especially under Pope Francis' pontificate, *particularly* in the last 4 months or so. Stories like yours are a reminder that pre-Vatican-II practices are not an antidote to chaos and spiritual abuse.
Please pray that I may maintain a spirit of humility and submission to the holy father and the Magisterium, and that I don't let a veneer of "traditionalism" become my idol, or even a substitute for true, Sacred Tradition. I will pray for Veronica, her family, and anyone else who has been hurt by those whose anger at the Church since V-II resulted a schismatic attitude.
Thank you to both of you for bringing these difficult topics to light. Fear drives people to extremes. It's so hard to let go of fear and anxieties - and of trying to control them with severity and endless rules. Cults and cultish groups all have fear as their base. And they work to instill and teach more fear. When the saints tell us otherwise: "Love and confidence" (St. Thérèse) "Perfect love casts out fear" (St. John).
Thank God for these videos and your channel! I recently left radical traditionalism and listening to these interviews is so helpful.
I’m Orthodox and I enjoy these videos. I really enjoyed the history of the Roman liturgy part 1 and 2 video you had on. Taught me a lot
I love this title Humility Brings You Home. So true. Great title for a book. Thanks for doing these videos.❤
Wild ride listening to Veronica's story. I fear deeply that many people will end up on a similar road. Where we eschew too much and then our kids feel like we "betrayed" them or something. My wife and I are working very hard to raise our kids as faithful passionate Catholics, while avoiding the pitfalls of the liberals or the radical traditionalists
One thing I would say is in regards to your discussion at about 1:18:00 about bringing the Church to people. I find so many TLM attenders think that if they just bring people to the TLM that will convert them. And hey, maybe it will! But I don't think it's just a magic conversion machine. They have a very idealized sense of the missal of 62, and that its some magic antidote against errors.
Wonderful interview, Veronica! I love how you pointed out that the liturgical abuses were as present before as they are today. If anything, because the newer missal mandates the full, conscious, and active participation of the laity, abuses are much more obvious than they were before, which creates the false idea the there were no abuses before.
The whole mindset of "protest" and "schism" is what brought us the Protestant "Reformation." Ideas have consequences. More videos like this should be put out.
So relatable when Veronica was talking about being exposed to things in the world with absolutely no tools to deal with said things…. So sad and so wrong.
I think ppl went into that mentality because they were trying to protect their children’s innocence which is always an admirable thing. Unfortunately it resulted in a very hyper sexualized culture in a lot of places. Jesus had full knowledge of the world but I think we would all agree that he was the most innocent among us.
I'm actually an Orthodox catechumen now, but I'm fascinated by some of these stories. The SSPX seems really normal at first. It probably would have been a good movement if there wasn't a weird puritan vibe jimmied in. Never been a Catholic, but I've been in some high control situations, and there are some interesting parallels.
Things seem to get weird as soon as we think we know better than the Church...
Doesn't matter if it is modernists who want to tear down all rules and dogmas to be free to follow the world as they please, or traditionalists who think if they do everything just right, God will be pleased with them.
Both take the eyes off of Christ and look to themselves😔
Fascinating interview/conversation. Real sad the relationship she has with her family now. It also brought back some of my memories of all the controversies that were raging around the parish from 2012-2015/16.
I also want to say that the people who I became friends with or that I interacted with in my own social circles, were some of the nicest, open-hearted people I have ever known. And some of the most cherished memories I have are of the friendships I made there. So not everyone is mean-spirited, which seemed to have been applied at one point in the conversation.
Having not grown up in it and having converted into it as an adult and having been in it for only a few years, leaving the SSPX was pretty easy for me. I simple stopped going.
Anyway, I’m glad to hear that she goes to a church now where she feels happy and at peace.
I definitely agree!! There’s so many good ppl in the parish and I talk to a few of them off and on still.
People who end up converting to the SSPX have a VERY different experience than children who are born and raised in the cult. I was born and raised in the SSPX and though there are a lot of “nice” people, that part is not prevalent in the child/teen/young adults life when they are just trying to survive with constant scruples and feeling everything they do is critiqued and looked down upon and considered a sin by the adults in their life and the Society as a whole. There are also a lot of “nice” people in the SSPX who hate the Pope. All this to say I hope you recognize that there is a huge difference between one deciding to adhere to the group as opposed to being born and raised in the group. Most all of the “nice” people I knew and were raised around in the SSPX including my own family refuse to talk or have anything to do with me now as they consider me a modernist apostate since I have come into the Church. “Nice” is very superficial for many and I would venture to say most SSPX adherents.
@@AnaMT1985 100% agree with this. And the vast majority of its defenders these days are people who have found them within the last 5 years or so. They have no idea about the issues under the surface, and unfortunately probably won’t until they’ve been entrenched in that environment for another 20 years or so.
@@AnaMT1985 Yes!! This is 100% spot on. I’d also like to add that it’s so difficult even bringing that up to people because then you’re seen as “projecting” your trauma onto people. In reality, you’re just trying to warn them about the very real dangers in creating a lifestyle based in the SSPX and not the Catholic Church.
@@AnaMT1985 Yea, I can believe that those who join the SSPX do see things and experience things in the SSPX differently than many of those who grow up inside of it.
And even though I don’t know you, I am sorry to hear about the shunning you have received from those who you have grown up among.
You are so right Veronica about the cool kids and the poor kids. So much tension.
Thank you for sharing your story, Veronica!
Fantastic interview ladies! Love that you were able to do this interview after all your motherly duties….❤
You got a new subscriber
Her story about leaving the SSPX reminds me of my experience leaving the Jehovah's Witnesses.
Yup. The JWs are in a lot of cult databases. It’s about time we make known the fact that the SSPX belongs there too.
Thank you ladies!
I happen to attend both versions of the mass. I have come to really like the Latin mass. I can't speak for the SSPX but I attend a ICKSP parish and I really dont see a lot of this. It's unfortunate we have to make 2 hour videos for stuff like. If most Catholics lived their faith, we wouldn't have to.
Hi Laura, at the 40 min section you and Veronica are talking about her family that questioned everything the priests were saying... I know families like that who only attend the SSPX because they believe the sacraments are valid, but the priests could be speaking possible heresy, you never know. You have to check what they say by old catechisms and documents, etc...!!!!!
Thanks for the interview. I’ve never been a tad, and I’ll be honest I’ve never been interested, except for maybe wanting to go to a Byzantine mass though right now I live in a community where there is not one for another two hours and even then I have plenty of masses close by. Honestly, I’m glad that this community exists for people and I’ve often been somebody who doesn’t hate the Latin mass at all, but feels that the community is the huge problem and I think that happens especially when you have a community that not only is resistant to change, but is afraid of any change. Yes changes hard and many times their instances were change isn’t good, but cases were changed can be good and can bring glory to God. I think this is the problem that happens in a lot of areas, and I think for those in these traditional groups, they see any change as horrible. I also think that in a way, they wrap themselves up and identity like many people in the modern world do in regards to politics or gender identity, or any of that other stuff that frankly leads us away from God. One last thing I realize is that these type of abuses have been going on forever and well before Vatican too. I remember asking this along time ago on a Catholic Answers forum, and people said that there were liturgical abuses in the middle ages and the Renaissance, and basically at all times. They have always been these abuses. There is nothing under the sun. I understand the tread mindset, because for many it would be disconcerting, but I also wonder if maybe they got so worked up, and the minute they saw something bad at a mass, or saw a bad mass at another parish, or with another priest, they just assumed things were going horrible, rather than thinking, logically, and saying well my parents doesn’t do this, or finding a parish that didn’t have those issues. this is what really gets me because there are people who drive so far to a mass, or find so much to nitpick, that they see anything as an abuse. I’m not going to say that things don’t exist, and obviously we can all do better, but I could name maybe two or three masses that were truly heretical and where I doubted, how legitimate it was and one of those in Germany of all places that’s three out of the hundreds of masses I have attended in my life.
What recommendations do you have if your spouse is not in agreement to leave the SSPX and is very argumentative when I share my concerns?
Lead by example and with a servants heart. So many of us were raised to think that the Catholic Church was a different religion and the SSPX itself was a part of our identity. They are to the true Catholics. Suggesting they are wrong is looked at as akin to heresy. Actually living your Faith daily will go a long way in convincing he/she that NO Catholics are not the apostates they’ve been led to believe.
The perpetual novina things kinda remminds me of the story in acts of Paul's enemies making a vow that they would'nt eat or drink till they murdered Paul Acts 23:12-13. One wonders how faithful to this vow they were after it became imposible since St. Paul was sent away to Rome. Of course in your case even such misguided a prayer could still be helpful because of the sincerity of intention.
9:20 I'm not an SSPXer, but from hearing tapes of Fr Hesse, their stance seems to be the following: "As far as validity - NO mass in Latin is valid, NO in English is doubtful. Either way, the NO mass is illicit, so it's a mortal sin to attend".
I remember Fr. Joe Pfeiffer fondly, when he was assigned to St. Michael the Archangel (SSPX) in Farmingville, N.Y. His consecration as a bishop is highly questionable, in fact, probably INVALID. 1. The validity of the consecrating bishop is in serious question; 2. the essential words were slurred & extra words were added, i.e. a defect in form; and 3. there was NO laying on of hands, i.e. a defect in matter, which was taught by Jesus Himself, as recorded in the Gospels regarding Holy Orders. My .25 cents worth.
People like this treat Holy Orders and episcopal consecrations like drugs. As long as you know a guy who can provide them, who cares if they’re licit or not? They’re valid, and they get the job done. Forget about their immense theological significance as it relates to the unity and juridical structure of the church. Trads love to tout the “priest against priest, bishop against bishop” part of whatever prophecy that was, failing to see that they’re doing that exact thing.
Somewhere in the 15 to 20 minute mark your guest is talking about problems with some SSPX sisters.. what exactly were they doing wrong? There is not enough explanation… not all of us know all the rules of sspx world. Is she saying the sisters shouldn’t have been helping set up things for Adoration after Mass??
Oh like "Our Lady of the Best Western" in San Diego? That was one I heard!
I love this😂 if I remember correctly, our little Resistance “chapel” was named after the Infant of Prague. So maybe the Infant of the Grange Hall??😆
So many of the early on folks are not at the local chapel any more.
I saw so many of those who became the homeschoolers, looked down on and ostracized.
25:10. She says she decided to go back to the resistance.. did she just mis-speak? You seemed to correct her.
This whole interview is difficult to follow. You guys seem to think viewers know all these sspx code words and terms.. I end up making assumptions about what is being said in a few spots.
I agree it's unclear and confusing often
35:33. Is she talking about a Catholic Church? Or protestant? So confusing.
i thought Pope Francis stated sspx was not in schism.
Hi there! That comes from a misstated story from before he was Pope. Since becoming Pope he has affirmed multiple times that the SSPX is schismatic. This article gives you a comprehensive overview of all the papal statements since the SSPXs inception. www.trueorfalsepope.com/p/who-sent-you-keeping-all-complicit.html