In BoG the film, Goku was supposed to be like 60% Beerus. So I wonder what that makes him, Vegeta, and Frieza in RoF? Good thing that all got thrown out in Super, I guess. Beerus was just happy to finally encounter someone that would make him use 0.1%, I guess 😂. His dream must have been totally wrong, because when Goku fights him again, it probably won't be as an SSJG... Edit: I stg, the literacy rates in this community are horrendous.
Either that or Beerus actually, LEGITIMATELY got scared once he realized that there's all these superpowered freaks running around vying for his spot and started training himself, now that he has Broly.
THREE mortals attaining godlike powers and having erased Zemasu, Renegade Angel made him realize that indeed, he was slacking off sleeping all the time.
Frieza definitely saw the necessity to training after seeing Gogeta beat down the dude that just used him as a punching bag against his will... @@dovahvenom4032
My theory is that during the tournament of power, gokus ultra instinct was peak power and since then he hasn’t reached the same power. This might conflict but it’s the only way it makes sense that Beerus is still stronger
@@doctorgohan1869 I remember Qaaman stepping away from RUclips years ago. I believe he had other things going on in his personal life and opted for new pursuits.
Your reasoning in reverse. If Black Frieza is anywhere near Beerus, Goku and Vegeta would also have to be near being near Beerus, yet there's no reason to believe they are. You can argue that their fusion might be, but then you run into the obvious problem of having no reason to assume that Black Frieza is anywhere near a current Gogeta or Vegito fusion.
@@blanktrigger8863not necessarily. Black Frieza literally one shotted TUI Goku and UE Vegeta. So there's no way they're anywhere close to Frieza in power
@@blanktrigger8863no? Frieza literally one shotted Goku and Vegeta he’s way out of their league rn, him being near Beerus wouldn’t make Goku and Vegeta near Beerus too
@@robinwagner7397 He did after they spent a wealth of time fighting other combatants and sustaining damage of fatigue. One of those combatants wished to be the strongest in their universe. The one shot is vastly overstated. To accurately judge power levels in a series without hard standards, you need to make accurate comparisons between characters. Overstating feats is not the way to go.
Beerus is as strong as the flick of the writers wrist. I said years ago I wouldn’t be surprised if Beerus told Goku “you’ve surpassed me a long time ago” but hey. This is the realm of fiction.
Or maybe the manga is filler. Toriyama probably didnt even intent the series to go past Resurrection F. And even if he did, he likely didnt intent DBS to be going on this long, even longer than DBZ.
@@toxicninjazx Idk, man. He didn't seem to be several times stronger than the others when they fought. Stronger, yes, but his main advantage seemed to be minor use of U.I. and it's not like there weren't some who were a decent match for him...
Jiren better be in his universe training with a U11 equivalent to David Goggins because u7 is becomes soooo overpowered lol. Best believe if there is another tournament the other universes will be written to be more than strong enough it’s just amazing how strong u7 is getting when compared to the old TOP
Jiren in manga still was stronger than Goku MUI. Stronger than guy who had god ki, angel techniqe and have many many friends and masters who make him strong like this. Goku is like pay2win and Jiren is like free2play, if Jiren become p2w(training with Marcarita for example) then I don't think so he would be weaker than current Goku or Vegeta.
Frieza is basically the Gohan equivalent of his race. If he trained for 10 years our characters shouldn’t be able to touch him for atleast another 2 or 3 arcs. The gap in power is ocean wide. If Gohan is stronger it negates the possibility of a black frieza arc since he would just go and beat him which is extremely lame. Keep in mind Frieza is the same character who had nearly the entire universe at its knees before he ever truly trained and when he did he jumped in power enough to overwhelm Goku just by sparring for a few months. Basic meditation in hell allowed him to master the energy of the form and now 10 years???… Gohan is insane…Broly is insane… but no one should be able to touch Frieza besides Beerus right now.
100%. Just think of how much ground Frieza gained from his 6(?) (I can't remember exactly how long it was) months of training in Resurrection. He went from being so far behind to leapfrogging SSB. Think about what he could accomplish in ten years of training. And he still isn't at Beerus level? Considering that, the saiyans will never reach Beerus without some kind of asspull or fusion.
Even if they want to market Black Freeza as officially "almost" GoD level remember that there are 12 different GoDs that are already confirmed to be of different strengths so Freeza could be near the power of the weakest GoD, possiby Sidra since he's already nullified his Hakai in the anime, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's at Beerus or even Champa levels of strength.
Not necessarily because not all universes participated and the others weren't able to recon the whole universe to recruit 10 fighters within a small window of time. We are just discovering more of U7 like the heaters and ceruleans. Even Whis said that they didn't have enough time to search the whole universe to find their 10th participant which is why Goku decided to recruit Frieza. Same case scenario for the other universes only recruiting what they could within the time given. Such as U9 gods were shown going planet to planet for recruiting then you have U11 that just picked the whole troopers team. We still don't know if 17's wish could have brought back the previous universes erased by Zeno as there used to be 18 in total. The writers have options...at some point Frieza will be erased by Vegeta before he does become a threat like Kid Buu was in back in Z to the whole universe.
I’m ngl it sounds like toriyama&toyotaro are nervous about getting goku,vegeta&frieza to that god of destruction level. Even with the manga continuity UI has been constantly getting nerfed in someway so goku doesn’t catch up to beerus&i’m willing to bet end of super/z goku will STILL be weaker than a god of destruction so they can keep the franchise going.
You dont need to nerf UI for that, you just go ahead and say Beerus is still stronger ad infinitum and it will be okay beacause the real power of Beerus is still uncertain, he even can have a transofrmation or some trick to get more power, because GoD.
I Rememeber in ep 18 where whis was explaining to goku that on where his power level was vs the gods of destruction on beerus planet . And i rememeeber clealry whis pointing at the small tree that was on the ground literally a baby tree and then proceeded to point at the larger tree and stated that that tree would be the power levels of the gods of destructions. Plus beerus has milllions of years of training as well so it makes sense on why they don't want goku and vegeta to just surpass him that easily .
They've really walked back the TOP in recent years. Jiren? Well, he wasn't that much stronger than us. UI? Well, there was all that build up, but please forget about practically all of it. Surpassing the gods of destruction? Well....
Bro the manga has been that way since the manga chapters came out. They haven’t walked it back. That’s what happens when you don’t use manga as the source material for the anime. That’s why they have to let the manga get ahead as well because it should be the source material that way it cuts down on discrepancies.
@@BlackDragonRulerThe discrepancies literally come from the manga itself it wouldn't be a problem if the manga just stopped trying to be different for different sake.
@@msbkaioken136The manga isn't trying to be different. You don't seem to understand that the anime and manga just borrow Toriyama's simple plot points and fill in their own stuff. 2 different continuities. Plus, the anime is written by multiple writers.
Great video Geekdom. Jiren supposedly surpassed God of destruction SIX YEARS AGO. Let us not forget SSB vegito BEFORE the TOP. Or what about MUI? SSB evolution vegita? SSB kaioken Goku? Toppo god of destruction in training? UE Vegeta? Gas? Granolah? Broly? SSB Gogeta? Black frieza? How about ALL of the characters introduced in “super hero”? Etc etc. the “god of destruction” level of power is simply a moving goalpost at this point and has been for several years now. Geekdom did the best of breaking this down simply as the anime and manga being two different continuities.
For real Like in the anime Whis literally stated “there lives a mortal that even a god of destruction can’t beat and that god of destruction is stronger then Beerus” and yet people say Beerus would beat Jiren when a god of destruction that’s stronger then him failed to do so
Also, they mentioned Beerus being WAY stronger in the moro arc. After Moro merged with the earth and goku was tapped out beerus CALMLY says that he needs to step in now and take care of moro like it was going to be nothing for him. Even after seeing most of what went down and how strong Goku was at that point.
It is infinitely difficult to define Beerus’s strength level. For all we know, he has some sort of unique transformation or power up that places him far above whatever Goku or Vegeta will ever attain. It’s just hard to believe that he’s stronger because we never see him train or do anything to improve himself. Not to mention, all of the contradictory statements and implications that were made in the movies, manga, and anime.
he does have access to ultra instinct omen but never perfected it since he always thinks about destruction, wouldn't be able to maintain a calm mind/heart but even so omen with destruction is ultra O.P.
Back when the battle of the gods movie came out it was said by Toriyama that he had no intention for Goku and Vegeta to surpass the gods. I still think he's slightly keeping it that way until he decides to close the gap. Beerus is basically the RPG character you spent so much time farming and buffing to Lvl 99 before even leaving the first stage. When you do start the game you're just one shotting everything and the final boss barely gives you a challenge. Now you're on the side quests doing everything to unlock the ultimate boss to give you a challenge for once. That's how it seems with Beerus as he's just waiting for both Goku and Vegeta to reach close to his level or for the oracle fish's prophecy to come true. Beerus is at Lvl 99 while everyone else is on Lvl 50...it will be nuts come next chapter if Goku takes Gohan to Beerus planet and before even getting to teach Broly. Beerus wants to spar with Gohan when he sees his beast transformation. Beerus is just looking for another rival to spar with at full power as the previous contender was most likely another mortal that is no longer around. Hence Beerus has been bored for so many years because no one else showed up to give him a good fight until now with Goku.
@@thekingbradable yes, there are also different levels to UI as well because Whis said that Goku barely knows the entry level. Who knows what level Beerus is currently at?
My head canon is that Beerus is going to stay the barometer for Goku and Vegeta and we will never see him be surpassed. They may show them getting close or being able to compete with him, but never actually "beat" him (he might let one of them win for fan service tho)
I eagerly await that "Beerus the moving goal post" video. Personally I enjoy the fan theory that Beerus is training in secret to keep up. The problem with Beerus being "untouchable" is that the stronger he needs to be, the less sense Battle of Gods makes in retrospect. The difference between Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan God was enough to pique Beerus's interest, supposedly. But the further that red hair gets in the rearview mirror, the less significant such a difference would be as Beerus's power is confirmed to surpass the next, what are we at, 5 forms after that? In addition to all the training and increase in base strength? I guess we're just supposed to believe that literally any usage of god ki no matter how insignificant is all it takes to change Beerus's mind. But then why fight at all if Goku was still so far behind?
Between the vision that Beerus had of a ssj god and the average power level of his universe, I think it's still safe to say that Beerus would be interested in Goku.
If Frieza is close to Beerus's level then after he's defeated Goku will have his rematch with Beerus in which the oracle fish's statement will finally have arrived of Vegeta & Goku being his rivals in the future
Goku should've at the very latest, surpassed Beerus in the U6 tournament with SSB Kaioken X10 because in the Battle of Gods arc they stated that post "MY BULMA!" Vegeta forced Beerus to use 10% of his power. Beerus has been a moving goal post for many years. They could've justified it by simply saying that Beerus started training more so that Goku and Vegeta wouldn't surpass him.
It was also stated that Beerus lied about how much strength he exerted during BoG. Since then we haven't seen Beerus lift a finger in a fight. He spared with Champa bouncing from planet to planet, hakaid Zamasu, slammed Vegeta right after Vegeta mastered blue, was impressed by Goku's UI in the anime, and didn't flinch about Broly or angelic Moro. We have no idea how strong he is.
By god of destruction level, I assume they mean beerus, because jiren’s stronger than his god of destruction(even in the manga). Goku and vegeta have far surpassed him, which means frieza would be well above some gods of destruction. Unless another retcon happens, this line doesn’t make sense
@@thevipez8740lol beerus didn't 1v1 the other gods of destruction it was a literal 11v1 and he came out on top even showcasing he can somewhat use ui and at the end of that battle it was only beerus and kitella left standing which would imply beerus is either the strongest or second strongest god of destruction
@@thevipez8740 lol cause that all happened after the fact they all tried to jump him and then he tricked them when he went up and they all thought they got him when in reality it was Champa you better re read that chapter again because as soon as the match started every single god of destruction goes after beerus
@@thevipez8740 lol you just admitted it happened in the beginning it doesn't matter if no one got hurt they still tried to jump him and failed as well and I never said he won it I said there was only beerus and kitella left standing at the end of the whole thing that would imply for him to either be the strongest or second strongest 😂😂😂
@@thevipez8740 lol when you have a 12 person free for all and there is only 2 people left standing that implies those two people are better then the rest and if you can't understand the implications of that then your more lost then I originally realized
This video was on POINT! Everything said was exactly what I've been saying. The anime and manga Goku should've BEEN passed Beerus but the scaling IS different for both. Goku and Vegeta in theory should have BEEN passed Beerus but they just don't want that. I would be fine with it if they stayed CONSISTENT from the beginning
Theory based on what? Lol people really need to stop over analysing dragon ball. It's made for kids. Things are pretty simple. Gods of destruction are leagues above mortals, the same way that angels are leagues above Gods of destruction. Everything else is information lost in translation. Japanese people have a different way of scaling and hyping up power to make characters look more exciting. Western audiences are the ones running with it and making a big deal out of everything. Beerus is stronger than Frieza, black white or otherwise.
@@oldmanjesus9855 That doesn't mean they can't be surpassed. If there are instances of pieces of evidence that indicate otherwise then you can't blame us for believing what we believe
I feel like people have glossed over the fact that Frieza was literally thinking about overthrowing the Zeno's. Whats even crazier? I'm not saying they could hear Frieza's thoughts, but i have a feeling they're like.... "Try us"
@@Ghost-rb5tg They are literally able to delete an entire timeline with no effort.. Then we have the Frieza race, able to work out and gain god strength within months. It's sooooo crazy
Jiren > His own God is Destruction Belmod (indirectly stated) > Beerus Therefore Jiren > Beerus Goku (MUI) >/= Jiren Yet Beerus > Goku???? Black Frieza > Goku post T.O.P but still < Beerus??? I still wanna say Beerus is getting stronger, just off camera training. Goku & Vegeta aren't the only ones who can get stronger than
@@gerz667either way belmond damaged beerus in the manga. So he’s atleast in the ball park of his strength. Jiren is confirmed stronger so how would he not be able to do the same?
@@gerz667 wasn't the arm wrestling victor only confirmed to be Quetila in manga? Cause I checked in sub & dub, all over RUclips, NEVER saw it stated where Quetila won. Whis did mention 'A God Stronger than Beerus' Beerus saying only lost the 1 time in arm wrestling, to which Whis said that God had a mortal stronger than them... Which would also be confusing since Quetila's mortals were dog water weak. In the manga the arm wrestling was only mentioned during the skirmish before that all out battle
This could be me being dumb/taking it too literally, but I'm pretty sure in the Battle of God's movie Beerus stated that Ki can't hurt him Head-canon is the *worst* thing a Dbz fan can say/do but I believe a certain amount of Ki can't phase Gods, it'll take an absurd amount of Ki for a mortal to generate to damage a god, but defeating them is neigh-impossible. Which is why I believe the Cereal Dragon couldn't make Gas or Granola 'The Strongest in the universe, except for the God' Yeah kinda contradicting but Goku & Vegeta could be close, but still far while Frieza is able to fight mortals with Divine Ki, but not defeat a deity... Dbz/DBS hierarchy makes no sense 🤣
I need to see beerus fight for his life using 100% of his full unrestricted maximum Destroyer God powers to see where he stands on the food chain at this current point in the overall story.
This is the problem we haven't seen Beerus fight since the introduction of Super. Super Saiyan God is below Beerus in power. We have nothing else to measure him one on one to see where anyone else stands. We have characters saying things about where other characters stand against the gods. If Beerus has a more advanced version of UI/UE or something I think he is MUCH stronger than everyone
I believe one thing that everyone forgets is that even tho Black Frieza is strong, we can’t forget that he did catch Goku and Vageta off guard and I remember Whis scolded Goku about becoming complacent and not remaining focused when in battle. And that’s exactly what happened here in my opinion.
a very good example of the goal post was when they said if beerus was a 10 goku would be a 7. pretty sure if ssg from battle of gods addded ssj on top he should be a 350 because of the 50X multiplier. but because on how they've treated goku and how unbelievably stronger he has gone since battle of gods and still is treated lesser to beerus. this makes me think beerus if a 10 goku must have been a tiny fraction or decimal in comparison from battle of gods. but i have a strong inclination by the end 2025 comes around goku and vegeta will finally surpass beerus
Goku & Frieza are like yin & yang, powerhouse opposites. Emperor Black Frieza back on his throne where he belongs (immeasurable)! I wouldn’t doubt if he wants to take out Toppo & Jiren for embarrassing him in the TOP?! We know his goal is to beat Beerus eventually (if possible), and Zenos last (I dunno how). He is the strongest but I think he has some other plan or way to kill the Gods besides power alone! There’s nothing in the Universe he isn’t privy to so maybe he will ask Zuno how to win or obtain some type of a God weapon or something. I just can’t wait to see where they take his character and who’s he going for first? They still haven’t shown other universes fighters, The Grand Priest fight, Zenos Guards, Zalama, etc there’s still a TON of story to fill and explore so I hope they don’t kill Frieza off as he adds soo much to the story, he’s unpredictable.
What if that’s because Beerus has also secretly been training this entire time? I understand Beerus is lazy but I’m just saying, what if that’s a possibility? Or not even training but like somehow getting stronger whenever he naps or something? Surely he notices the saiyns are growing stronger and stronger and as much as Beerus likes the saiyans, do you think there’s info he’s purposely withholding in how exactly he is so strong in the first place? Just thinkin
Tbf, It's not a stretch to think Hit, an assassin, and Jiren, a soldier who prides himself on strength, have been keeping up their training off screen - especially after what they witnessed and achieved in the last arc That goes for the other warriors from the ToP
My guess is that all the hype talk in the TOP was all Toei. Not that what Toyo has done is from Toriyama. At this point it’s clear Toyo wants to keep the surpass Beerus moment for the future which I can understand.
Beerus isn't a "walking goalpost." Remember, he also trains with Whis. Not to mention the THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of years of training he has under his belt versus freiza's 10 years in a hyperbolic dimension.
I think part of the problem is we are continually reaching the ceiling in terms if power so unless the show or the manga is really about to end then this might always be a problem. I also think it’s also like you said, Beerus can be a moving goalpost, and they can explain this by saying that Beerus is hiding an unknown amount of his power and at the same time he is continuing to get stronger
Ok genuinely I know that the gods of destruction and beerus are stronger in the manga but legitimately with how we’ve seen frieza grow before how is he still not at that level??
By your logic Belmod is the weakest God cause Jiren is stated to be stronger then him. But he actually like top 5. Freiza is stronger then every God but Beerus.
I feel like you misunderstood the statement. The writers of the manga and anime know what the other is doing. Yes there is a promotional speech to hype. Though the power of Gods does not mean the same as the power of trained gods/experienced gods. Our God of destruction lost in arm wrestling but dominated his god tournament. I'd argue they left his skills/powers vague enough to say he is leagues above the other gods all around. One god of destruction may have been passed in the tournament of power but that doesn't mean all of them were. Maybe he is a goal post or maybe he is from the main character's universe and he has always had more power and potential than any god of destruction ever as implied with his slight knowledge of angelic techniques. Toppo was a god in training. He is nowhere near some of the current enemies/heroes strength. He is "god level/power" though. Love the videos man.
I think you don't understand dbs manga and anime. By not stronger than a God of destruction they are referring to Berrus. Jiren is stronger than belmod but is weaker than berrus. Toppo is as strong as belmod. Berrus is the strongest being before the angel, has been training for eons until noone could rival him. Then he got bored and started sleeping until a new warrior shoeed up to rival him. Whis is training goku for berrus as he knows goku will be able to rival berrus.
If Toyotaro states that Frieza is just below the level of a GoD, then you really have to think that Gohan Beast could be close to if not on par with the level of Black Frieza since it’s been stated that Gohan is the strongest of all the Z-Warriors.
7:19 what if the Kai’s have different power levels as well. Universe 7 and 9 was the lowest of the universes ranked out of 14. And remember Zamasu was just a trainee 😂 goku called Zeno 😂 im dead 😭
Topo also said that based on raw power alone, jiren is stronger than his God of destruction. Also, once topo and vegta transform with haki energy they become much more powerful than they previously were. Topo was referring to Belmond without using haki energy.
I feel they mean Beerus with the statement. Because even the kai from universe 9 thought it wouldnt be easy to defeat golden Freeza by sidra In the same ep. We saw how powerful beerus was. It took freeza effort to control hakai, while beerus just blow the same hakai with mere air 😅
Let's also remember that lord beers went up against several other gods of destruction and was clearly superior. So..... not all gods are created as equals.... lol. When it comes to the realm of God hood berus is up there. Now frieze might be the level of the fox or maybe even the mouse (can't remember the names) but not quite berus 😅 but that's just my 2 sense
Toyotaro is hesitant to let Goku surpass Beerus because with how this series work, a character becomes basically irrelevant the second Goku surpasses them. Beerus is a very popular character, so Toyotaro doesn’t want him to become irrelevant
If that’s true, I wonder if Frieza is as strong as Topo was in the anime version of the tournament of power. If I remember correctly, it was said that he was a god of destruction in training when he fought Vegeta. I wouldn’t be completely shaking in my boots if I’m on the dragon team, but I would certainly be aware of that.
@@godslayer8894 Excluding mortals with a relatively low power level as far as the series is concerned, where would you place Frieza in the anime version of event? I would still put him at the same level as Topo, or if I’m being generous, I’d say past Topo and at first form Jiren in terms of strength.
@@anthonynotte5901 People seem to highly underate The Manga black frieza is more powerful than anyone in the DBS anime . As the gods destruction, are protrayed better in the Manga and seem to be more powerful. Maybe that will change when the anime comes back. As they will adapt, these arcs And the gods will probably be portrayed better But black frieza is easily stronger than any of the warriors in the tournament of power And saying he's a strong is t o p toppo Is a huge low ball He is a God of destruction candidate. He's not as strong as the gods themselves. As in terms of power the manga has long surpassed the anime As the gods seem too be much stronger In the manga Than Does that anime maybe that portrayal will change one day
I only keep accepting Beerus’s power ceiling being raised because he is a million years old. Look at all the forms and techniques Goku and Vegeta accumulated in just 50 years time!
This is an excellent statement about the powerscaling in the manga vs the series and would explain how UI goku and UE Vegeta are weaker in the manga allowing someone like plot armor black Frieza to take them out. I do want to point out that in the manga beerus told Vegeta when he was in his blue form that he was strong enough to be a god of destruction, but not even close to him. So in the manga UI goku and Vegeta te plenty strong enough to be gods of destruction and stronger than some of the gods, but not the strongest like Beerus! I do not think beerus is weaker in the series, just Ui is a lot stronger as it should be. Jiren was also stated to be stronger than his god of destruction and whis mentioning that beerus lost a fight to him once, but I think that line can be retconned as a joke or whatever. As for the hype of “oh this new character is the strongest” is so true and I’m tired of it! They just don’t get it that they don not have to make the next villain or whatever the strongest to keep peoples attention! I care a lot more about the series than the mange, but it doesn’t seem super will come back due to the children’s series coming out. I can’t believe it’s been 10 years since battle is the gods! Super still feels like a newer series!
I mean, the power scaling of the anime and the manga is just different in large part. The stories are even different. I would say the manga is overall quite a lot worse than the anime, but it is a simple fact that the anime and the manga are quite different and how they told their stories and how they wanted the franchise to go forward. I do have the comment on something that you said. That is very stupid super not coming back. It's because of the lack of manga material. The people behind the manga are very adamant that they want the manga to be ahead of the anime. Because they're sick and tired of the poor sales it has nothing to do with daima and calling it a children's series is unbelievably ignorant. Would you say the same for original dragon ball? Just because the main character is a child?
@@msbkaioken136 the manga is a lot worse than the series, which is why I’ve been waiting for the series to continue. It is true that Toyotaru wants the series to follow the manga like it used to so he can lead the story; that was clear as he was rewriting the tournament of power arc. I think there is enough to do a couple of seasons of dragonball, but yes I agree there should be more; but with chapter 101 out there is more to follow and as long as it keeps coming the series should lag behind. I do think Toyotaru is running out of ideas and has not followed up with the other universes and there is still the 5 strongest that was mentioned. I mentioned the new children’s dragonball series because the fact is it is for children as they are trying to bring dragonball to a new generation; Geekdom did talk about this, he just didn’t directly state the series is for children, just marketed to children to being in a new market segment. So no this is not an ignorant statement, but a statement based on what we know and have been told. I think that is a good idea but I don’t have confidence that they will be able to handle two series at once. The characters power levels are also said to be much lower, since they have become so strong. Geekdom also mentioned that dragonball super is unlikely to return anytime soon, he made a video about this; so given all this information I am not confident that dragonball super series will continue, especially if the children’s series does really well.
@@adrastoso9727 okay, so a few things toyotaro is not the one I was referring to. I'm referring to the company that's behind the manga the people with the real power being upset, not him specifically. Next no, there is absolutely not enough material to bring dragonball super back they are not going to do a seasonal format. They just will not if it comes back. It will air every week with very few breaks for 2 or 3 years. So there is absolutely not enough material to make it into a long-running anime right now. Once again, dragonball daima is absolutely not for children. This is just objectively false. It is absolutely not being marketed towards children either. What are you talking about? Once again false and ignorant. It's not meant to be for new generation. It's not being marketed for children. Geekdom did not say this if anything. It's literally meant to be for a long time fans, because it's meant to celebrate the 40th anniversary of dragonball. Why would they not be able to handle 2 stories at the same time? The anime and the manga production is to completely separate things that don't interfere with each other at all. At this point you're really frustrating me with baseless assumptions and extrapolations based off of things no one has said.
@adrastoso9727 Worse than the series? Well, not really. The Trunks arc was miles better in the manga. The TOP was better in the anime, so that's one win for both. With the anime behind the manga this time, it could likely properly adapt it, so don't expect completely different versions of the recent arcs.
@@j04370859 Absolutely it's worse the Manga barely had a battle of God's arc. It didn't have resurrection of f the universe 6 tournament had completely unnecessary changes that were not hype in comparison to the anime the future trunks, arc disrespected the character. The entire arc is about in the Manga and obviously the top was significantly worse. The Manga is blatantly worse than the anime by a large margin which isn't surprising. Considering it was literally promotional material for the anime.
Well they did use a clever Idea to mask this moving goal post... The Ultra Ego concept. Beerus said to Vegeta that his power is basically limitless since he thinks about destruction and nothing else. It's as if he is constantly in UE like Whis is with UI
Beerus does train. He just does it in private. He's said this already lmao 💀 "Don't mess with us dragonball fans we haven't watched the show" He even said it in the manga 💀
Ik their secret regretting give jiren the “being stronger than a GoD” title and giving goku UI and just giving anyone deity forms at all. This is just making this all a headache now.
They jumped the gun. Super was poorly planned from the beginning. They should have been patient, and saved those major payoffs for later. How are they gonna have Goku beat up someone said to have surpassed Beerus before Goku and Beerus even have a rematch? Smh...
@@pt5728 It definitely doesn't help that SSJG, the form that incited the events of DBS, was replaced after 1 movie. I think UI should have been saved for after Goku and Beerus fought again...
There is a way for moving Goal post Beerus to make sense. It could be that he started taking his training with Whis more seriously whenever Goku and Vegeta aren't around so he can stay ahead of them both every time they come close. Goku and Vegeta are actually Beerus' rivals which may be part of the reason why Whis agreed to train them both in order to motivate Beerus, all while getting tasty food out of the deal. But that's just a theory. An anime theory.
If Black Freeza isn’t at least as strong as Beerus then that’s bullshit. I remember when we were leading up to the ToP and all the material said that Jiren had surpassed the destroyers. Then they decided to make Beerus even stronger since he’s the “ever moving goal post”
Geekdom, you're forgetting Beerus is way more older than the Z warriors, that's a factor we all DB fans have to consider as well so, technically Beerus is way more powerful than Black Frieza.... Don't forget there's a deep reasons King Cold warn Frieza to avoid fighting Majin Boo or Beerus
The only way this would make sense is that Beerus must've been sneaking in some training when he realized Goku and Vegeta were catching up to him. In a way, I can see Beerus feeling threatened if the gap between him and Sayians starts to shrink so he stops being lazy and starts training again. They could easily say we never see Beerus train because he does it in private(off-screen). He doesn't want anyone to see him because they might think he's getting weak or he's scared of Goku & Vegeta surpassing him.
I mean beerus is millions of years old if you really think about it it makes no sense that they could even come close to his level when he could have millions of years of training
Here's the thing we know next to nothing about the Gods Of Destruction in terms of combat. We know they are very strong and can use hakai. The only time we've seen a full on GoD fight for a while was in Battle of Gods. They could have different levels of MUI like different levels of Super Sayian.
I saved this video before I go to bed - Black Frieza’s power is one I can’t wait for! Also at this point I don’t even know when we will see Beerus at full power! So much potential for the story in the upcoming future. Hopefully it’ll be sooner than later. Geekdom don’t miss with the vids! 💪
Bro really? You're asking that when Daima hasn't even come out yet? Have some patience. I don't understand why people like you have no respect for time.
@@DraggyCashand i hope it never does, we have no idea how Daima is gonna turn out but i already hate it they did not leave a good impression on me turing the entire cast to kids
@@TMind109 that video of Daima was already stated to be just from the first episode. So then being kids the entire time might not be the case. Honestly, I'd wait instead of assuming. Cause you will never know.
*Easiest way to scale up the power level of Vegeta and Goku at the time of getting "one shot" by Black Frieza is to say they were somewhat caught off guard and didn't fully brace for the attack.*
How can it be a moving goal post if that goal post was never stated were it was? When we find out how strong Beerus really is he'll be leaps and bounds more powerful then any mortal.
Beerus was injured by Belmods cards in the manga, so the gap in power can't be that big, even if it's a big gap, yet Jiren was stated to be stronger than Belmod in the manga. And then they've gotten dozens of times stronger since then. Beerus is stronger yes, but it makes no logical sense
I look at it as “A god of destruction” doesn’t mean it’s Beerus … I remember Beerus saying Vegeta could be a god of destruction for another universe but not U7 … not that they are moving the goal post but G.O.D level has tiers
From what my friend explained is that Goku and Vegeta been at the level of the Gods (because every god aren't the same level) Beerus most likely is the strongest or top 2 of all of the Gods. Now, after 10 years of training, Frieza is approaching or near Beerus's level. We don't know if Beerus trains, and we don't know how fast he grows from it either, but it makes sense to me. Goku and them should not be close to his level at this point in time. Lastly even in the anime I never believed Goku or Jiren was stronger than Beerus just stronger than a few gods and Belmont that's all.
Cause in the anime Jiren was indeed stronger than the gods, including Beerus. But in the manga we only know that Jiren is stronger than his god Belmod.
@@HavokUnbound I think it could be either way. Theres always been evidence for both sides but even in the Dragonball Super: Broly movie, Goku implies that he and Vegeta (who should be stronger or as as strong as anime Jiren) have still not surpassed the Gods. He does so near the end
@@dimitri4888 It never said every god, just the benchmark power level for one. For example, in the Naruto Shippuden guidebooks it states that Hebi Sasuke surpassed the Akatsuki. Now we know that version of Sasuke was not stronger than each member of the Akatsuki individually, moreso that he has surpassed the average power level of the collective. Statements like this are used to show that a character is in or has surpassed a certain "tier". In both anime and manga, Beerus is sort of implied to be the strongest. He was down right stated to be the strongest in the Broly movie light Novel. But I can definitely see anime Goku being stronger than Beerus atleast in Mastered UI
@TreyHallRH3 Sorry I was a bit wrong in the manga part, in a manga guide it states that Jiren exceeds the power of the Gods of destruction, but that's excluding Beerus forsure. Meanwhile in the anime Whis and guides say that Jiren/UI Goku surpassed Beerus and the gods.
Bruh considering how long beerus lived and if we took the amount of time he ACTUALLY TRAINED with Whis which would obviously be above the time goku and vegeta ever trained for then nobody realistically would be on beerus's level/ full power. Including if we're taking in that the Japanese like to hype up characters like gohan who had 0 training and just pulled up to the fight would some how even with his potentially stacked on top would reach goku's level who were stated in the ANIME that they we're on the level of the Gods
I think they mean he's close to Beerus, and that Goku and Vegeta are at the level(or above) certain Gods.Therefore all three could annihilate some of the lesser Gods.
Don't forget, ever since he got brought back for the ToP, Frieza has been GUNNING for Beerus and the realm of the gods. I think this could imply a future plot point of Frieza attempting a sneaky one-up in on Beerus at some point, or maybe him seizing another universe's GoD position. Frieza is definitely still Goku and Vegeta's fight though, ultimately.
Damn they been “Almost God of Destruction level” since super saiyan blue’s introduction 😂
In BoG the film, Goku was supposed to be like 60% Beerus. So I wonder what that makes him, Vegeta, and Frieza in RoF? Good thing that all got thrown out in Super, I guess.
Beerus was just happy to finally encounter someone that would make him use 0.1%, I guess 😂. His dream must have been totally wrong, because when Goku fights him again, it probably won't be as an SSJG...
Edit: I stg, the literacy rates in this community are horrendous.
@@AndrewAce.That wasn’t canon bro. You’re very late to the party. Chapter 101 also proves Goku is far from Beerus
@@SouthPlaya Bro, READ my comment please!
@@SouthPlaya Yeah I always thought that statement was a load of crap.
Actually since Super Saiyan God.
At this point god of destruction level is a imaginary number/ceiling
I really hope we get SS4 to be canon by the time Dragon ball is wrapped up
@@EriPagesI agree
@@EriPagesfacts
@@nauticaxo1still be weaker than the angels and zeno
Above the gods not above the gods almost above the gods
"Beerus Level" is the pot of gold at the end of a rainbow at this point...
Either that or Beerus actually, LEGITIMATELY got scared once he realized that there's all these superpowered freaks running around vying for his spot and started training himself, now that he has Broly.
THREE mortals attaining godlike powers and having erased Zemasu, Renegade Angel made him realize that indeed, he was slacking off sleeping all the time.
@@Gaia_BentosZX5who's Zemasu?
@@Vuirotto- I think he's referring to that mean, green, killing machine...
@@Gaia_BentosZX5 The best explanation rlly...
I blame Black Frieza on Broly VIOLATING him for over an hour straight 🤣
I loved it hate Frieza kill him off already
😂😂😂😂 He just don't want to get used like a ragdoll again 😂😂😂
Seeing Gogeta too may have led to him wanting to train too
Frieza definitely saw the necessity to training after seeing Gogeta beat down the dude that just used him as a punching bag against his will... @@dovahvenom4032
And Gogeta
Beerus, the ever-moving goal post whenever plot needs him to be 👍
My theory is that during the tournament of power, gokus ultra instinct was peak power and since then he hasn’t reached the same power. This might conflict but it’s the only way it makes sense that Beerus is still stronger
Hey do you know if qaaman quit youtube?
@@doctorgohan1869 I remember Qaaman stepping away from RUclips years ago. I believe he had other things going on in his personal life and opted for new pursuits.
@@doctorgohan1869No? He's made a video like a few days ago.
@@blacklisted9355 i see. Thanks
If Black Frieza isn’t at least near Beerus than no one can say beerus power level ain’t just a forever moving ceiling.
That’s a fact bro , beerus will stay 10 steps ahead of everybody even if freiza is nowhere near him.
Your reasoning in reverse. If Black Frieza is anywhere near Beerus, Goku and Vegeta would also have to be near being near Beerus, yet there's no reason to believe they are. You can argue that their fusion might be, but then you run into the obvious problem of having no reason to assume that Black Frieza is anywhere near a current Gogeta or Vegito fusion.
@@blanktrigger8863not necessarily. Black Frieza literally one shotted TUI Goku and UE Vegeta. So there's no way they're anywhere close to Frieza in power
@@blanktrigger8863no? Frieza literally one shotted Goku and Vegeta he’s way out of their league rn, him being near Beerus wouldn’t make Goku and Vegeta near Beerus too
@@robinwagner7397 He did after they spent a wealth of time fighting other combatants and sustaining damage of fatigue. One of those combatants wished to be the strongest in their universe. The one shot is vastly overstated. To accurately judge power levels in a series without hard standards, you need to make accurate comparisons between characters. Overstating feats is not the way to go.
Beerus is as strong as the flick of the writers wrist. I said years ago I wouldn’t be surprised if Beerus told Goku “you’ve surpassed me a long time ago” but hey. This is the realm of fiction.
Nahh fr they already used monaka as motivation so it wouldn’t be surprising at all 😂
@Waynehead899 yeah, his sleepy ass, no screen time training was that intense
Or maybe the manga is filler. Toriyama probably didnt even intent the series to go past Resurrection F. And even if he did, he likely didnt intent DBS to be going on this long, even longer than DBZ.
God of destruction level is a forever moving GOAL POST
Its Beerus they already surpassed the other Gods
@@toxicninjazxon god
@@toxicninjazxI don't know I would say also quitela
@@toxicninjazx Idk, man. He didn't seem to be several times stronger than the others when they fought. Stronger, yes, but his main advantage seemed to be minor use of U.I. and it's not like there weren't some who were a decent match for him...
How can it be a moving goal post if that goal post was never stated were it was?
Black Frieza one shooting Goku and Vegeta still had me surprised. Like damn, dawg.
Dog walked their asses.
Same here he literally just blew right them like they were nothing
I think its kinda lame but whatever.
That would be impressive if they weren't heavily fatigued at the time. Remember, they were still fighting Gas when Frieza showed up.
@@Violent_Wolfen That’s one thing I fail to see how people are missing.
Jiren better be in his universe training with a U11 equivalent to David Goggins because u7 is becomes soooo overpowered lol. Best believe if there is another tournament the other universes will be written to be more than strong enough it’s just amazing how strong u7 is getting when compared to the old TOP
Lmao GOGGINS
They'll be as powerful as Toriyama wants them to be (with I assume some reasoning behind it, whether they would be good or not is anyone's guess).
Jiren in manga still was stronger than Goku MUI. Stronger than guy who had god ki, angel techniqe and have many many friends and masters who make him strong like this. Goku is like pay2win and Jiren is like free2play, if Jiren become p2w(training with Marcarita for example) then I don't think so he would be weaker than current Goku or Vegeta.
Frieza is basically the Gohan equivalent of his race. If he trained for 10 years our characters shouldn’t be able to touch him for atleast another 2 or 3 arcs. The gap in power is ocean wide. If Gohan is stronger it negates the possibility of a black frieza arc since he would just go and beat him which is extremely lame. Keep in mind Frieza is the same character who had nearly the entire universe at its knees before he ever truly trained and when he did he jumped in power enough to overwhelm Goku just by sparring for a few months. Basic meditation in hell allowed him to master the energy of the form and now 10 years???… Gohan is insane…Broly is insane… but no one should be able to touch Frieza besides Beerus right now.
100%. Just think of how much ground Frieza gained from his 6(?) (I can't remember exactly how long it was) months of training in Resurrection. He went from being so far behind to leapfrogging SSB. Think about what he could accomplish in ten years of training. And he still isn't at Beerus level? Considering that, the saiyans will never reach Beerus without some kind of asspull or fusion.
@@Final-tt5bo I think it was 4months he trained
Hold on in Daima Gohan didn't show up does this mean he is the god of destruction during that moment
@@rking123😂😂no
Might be possible he is the god of destruction and Gohan became stronger than Beerus as well might have happened
Even if they want to market Black Freeza as officially "almost" GoD level remember that there are 12 different GoDs that are already confirmed to be of different strengths so Freeza could be near the power of the weakest GoD, possiby Sidra since he's already nullified his Hakai in the anime, but that doesn't necessarily mean he's at Beerus or even Champa levels of strength.
That’s where the issue. It’s not specific . Is it the average GOD or is it Beerus’s level?
@@kapayasiame3632Yep you said it! Which one of the 12 GoD specifically🤷♂️
@@kapayasiame3632bro you guys are slow. Beerus is top 3. Goku and vegeta at this point are equal or greater than all other gods that aren’t top 3
Its talking about Beerus
And likely peak current Beerus.
As we have seen him struggle with Champa to beating all the GoDs
Jiren was already stronger than belmod.
Based on common sense frieza might be close to beerus/quietela
This shows that frieza really does have the potential to be a huge threat to all 12 universes, not just universe 7.
Shows if Freida train 23 years before meeting goku on named the story would be different
Highest potential ever.
He was born at the strength of a ssj. 😂
Not necessarily because not all universes participated and the others weren't able to recon the whole universe to recruit 10 fighters within a small window of time. We are just discovering more of U7 like the heaters and ceruleans. Even Whis said that they didn't have enough time to search the whole universe to find their 10th participant which is why Goku decided to recruit Frieza. Same case scenario for the other universes only recruiting what they could within the time given. Such as U9 gods were shown going planet to planet for recruiting then you have U11 that just picked the whole troopers team. We still don't know if 17's wish could have brought back the previous universes erased by Zeno as there used to be 18 in total. The writers have options...at some point Frieza will be erased by Vegeta before he does become a threat like Kid Buu was in back in Z to the whole universe.
Goku black never trained and was ssb+ level. @@theblackprotagonist5936
FrieZa potential is second to Broly's in U7.
I’m ngl it sounds like toriyama&toyotaro are nervous about getting goku,vegeta&frieza to that god of destruction level. Even with the manga continuity UI has been constantly getting nerfed in someway so goku doesn’t catch up to beerus&i’m willing to bet end of super/z goku will STILL be weaker than a god of destruction so they can keep the franchise going.
You dont need to nerf UI for that, you just go ahead and say Beerus is still stronger ad infinitum and it will be okay beacause the real power of Beerus is still uncertain, he even can have a transofrmation or some trick to get more power, because GoD.
Wouldn't be surprised
I Rememeber in ep 18 where whis was explaining to goku that on where his power level was vs the gods of destruction on beerus planet . And i rememeeber clealry whis pointing at the small tree that was on the ground literally a baby tree and then proceeded to point at the larger tree and stated that that tree would be the power levels of the gods of destructions. Plus beerus has milllions of years of training as well so it makes sense on why they don't want goku and vegeta to just surpass him that easily .
They've really walked back the TOP in recent years. Jiren? Well, he wasn't that much stronger than us. UI? Well, there was all that build up, but please forget about practically all of it. Surpassing the gods of destruction? Well....
Bro the manga has been that way since the manga chapters came out. They haven’t walked it back. That’s what happens when you don’t use manga as the source material for the anime. That’s why they have to let the manga get ahead as well because it should be the source material that way it cuts down on discrepancies.
@@BlackDragonRuleryeah, but its not that easy to do when the manga creators doesn’t give a crap about the series.
All of that is manga doing.
@@BlackDragonRulerThe discrepancies literally come from the manga itself it wouldn't be a problem if the manga just stopped trying to be different for different sake.
@@msbkaioken136The manga isn't trying to be different. You don't seem to understand that the anime and manga just borrow Toriyama's simple plot points and fill in their own stuff. 2 different continuities. Plus, the anime is written by multiple writers.
My theory on Beerus being a moving goal post is that the longer he’s awake, the stronger he gets. He’s basically stretching still.
Or it’s just the fact that he’s millions of years old
That's a good point, he's not a "morning" person so it probably does take him a while to fully wake up 😂
I'm thinking he's full of it just like he was with Monaka
That's fucking stupid lmao
@@thetf8142Being old doesn't make you strong. Elder Kai is hundreds of millions of years old and Buu is older than both of them.
Great video Geekdom. Jiren supposedly surpassed God of destruction SIX YEARS AGO. Let us not forget SSB vegito BEFORE the TOP. Or what about MUI? SSB evolution vegita? SSB kaioken Goku? Toppo god of destruction in training? UE Vegeta? Gas? Granolah? Broly? SSB Gogeta? Black frieza? How about ALL of the characters introduced in “super hero”? Etc etc.
the “god of destruction” level of power is simply a moving goalpost at this point and has been for several years now.
Geekdom did the best of breaking this down simply as the anime and manga being two different continuities.
Exactly someone said it 🙌🏾 Jiren and damn near everyone by now been passed gods of destruction so why is Beerus power glazed so heavily 😭
For real Like in the anime Whis literally stated “there lives a mortal that even a god of destruction can’t beat and that god of destruction is stronger then Beerus” and yet people say Beerus would beat Jiren when a god of destruction that’s stronger then him failed to do so
Its an arm wrestling match for Gods sake atleast be original for once@unbornking18
that was six years ago already holy shit time flying
Also, they mentioned Beerus being WAY stronger in the moro arc.
After Moro merged with the earth and goku was tapped out beerus CALMLY says that he needs to step in now and take care of moro like it was going to be nothing for him. Even after seeing most of what went down and how strong Goku was at that point.
Beerus took a nap when he saw black freeza, he’s next level strong
Because Goku wasn't getting the job done from hesistation although Whis told him to have more confidence in his power.
It is infinitely difficult to define Beerus’s strength level. For all we know, he has some sort of unique transformation or power up that places him far above whatever Goku or Vegeta will ever attain. It’s just hard to believe that he’s stronger because we never see him train or do anything to improve himself. Not to mention, all of the contradictory statements and implications that were made in the movies, manga, and anime.
he does have access to ultra instinct omen but never perfected it since he always thinks about destruction, wouldn't be able to maintain a calm mind/heart but even so omen with destruction is ultra O.P.
Back when the battle of the gods movie came out it was said by Toriyama that he had no intention for Goku and Vegeta to surpass the gods. I still think he's slightly keeping it that way until he decides to close the gap. Beerus is basically the RPG character you spent so much time farming and buffing to Lvl 99 before even leaving the first stage. When you do start the game you're just one shotting everything and the final boss barely gives you a challenge. Now you're on the side quests doing everything to unlock the ultimate boss to give you a challenge for once. That's how it seems with Beerus as he's just waiting for both Goku and Vegeta to reach close to his level or for the oracle fish's prophecy to come true. Beerus is at Lvl 99 while everyone else is on Lvl 50...it will be nuts come next chapter if Goku takes Gohan to Beerus planet and before even getting to teach Broly. Beerus wants to spar with Gohan when he sees his beast transformation. Beerus is just looking for another rival to spar with at full power as the previous contender was most likely another mortal that is no longer around. Hence Beerus has been bored for so many years because no one else showed up to give him a good fight until now with Goku.
I think one thing to remember too is that Beerus is still in training from Whis. He hasn’t even perfected UI
@@thekingbradable yes, there are also different levels to UI as well because Whis said that Goku barely knows the entry level. Who knows what level Beerus is currently at?
My head canon is that Beerus is going to stay the barometer for Goku and Vegeta and we will never see him be surpassed. They may show them getting close or being able to compete with him, but never actually "beat" him (he might let one of them win for fan service tho)
I eagerly await that "Beerus the moving goal post" video.
Personally I enjoy the fan theory that Beerus is training in secret to keep up. The problem with Beerus being "untouchable" is that the stronger he needs to be, the less sense Battle of Gods makes in retrospect. The difference between Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan God was enough to pique Beerus's interest, supposedly. But the further that red hair gets in the rearview mirror, the less significant such a difference would be as Beerus's power is confirmed to surpass the next, what are we at, 5 forms after that? In addition to all the training and increase in base strength? I guess we're just supposed to believe that literally any usage of god ki no matter how insignificant is all it takes to change Beerus's mind. But then why fight at all if Goku was still so far behind?
Between the vision that Beerus had of a ssj god and the average power level of his universe, I think it's still safe to say that Beerus would be interested in Goku.
I’m starting to think unfortunately we will never see Beerus fight seriously. They’re just gonna keep moving that goalpost the entire damn series. 😒
If Frieza is close to Beerus's level then after he's defeated Goku will have his rematch with Beerus in which the oracle fish's statement will finally have arrived of Vegeta & Goku being his rivals in the future
Hé needs to train 5 more years at Max 😂😂😂😂 but no they Will say that hè is still weaker than beerus
@@dark_nightwing_xl2797 ofc they like Beerus so much
@@dark_nightwing_xl2797 yeah, somehow he's still gonna be way under beerus 😭 idk how but he just is.
nah the oracle fish's statement will be at the end of DBS so you're probably right not anytime soon@@dark_nightwing_xl2797
@@nauticaxo1 beerus is like something that Will catch up to you lmao
Goku should've at the very latest, surpassed Beerus in the U6 tournament with SSB Kaioken X10 because in the Battle of Gods arc they stated that post "MY BULMA!" Vegeta forced Beerus to use 10% of his power. Beerus has been a moving goal post for many years.
They could've justified it by simply saying that Beerus started training more so that Goku and Vegeta wouldn't surpass him.
It was also stated that Beerus lied about how much strength he exerted during BoG. Since then we haven't seen Beerus lift a finger in a fight. He spared with Champa bouncing from planet to planet, hakaid Zamasu, slammed Vegeta right after Vegeta mastered blue, was impressed by Goku's UI in the anime, and didn't flinch about Broly or angelic Moro. We have no idea how strong he is.
Blue Kaioken is anime only.
Gohan beast vs Black Frieza would be awesome 😎
He just got his shine vs cell max there’s no history there between Gohan and Frieza like there is w Vegeta and Frieza or Beerus and Frieza
@@stylez3051Wdym there is no history between Gohan and Frieza? Gohan literally fought Frieza on Namek and RoF.
@@Mandalore_ultimateexactly
why, hed get one shot. worse than tui goku and ego vegeta. bc gohan is below them
@@qtindavis433 no he isnt whis even stated in the manga hes stronger than both of them
Anyone in the fandom saying Black Frieza is beyond Whis is fucking Delusional!
Ain't nobody surpassing angels.
Yeah. That's stupid.
@Knowyourlilnig Even if Goku somehow squeaked a W on Whis his father the grand priest is even stronger still.
People really make this way more complicated than it actually is. 😂
By god of destruction level, I assume they mean beerus, because jiren’s stronger than his god of destruction(even in the manga). Goku and vegeta have far surpassed him, which means frieza would be well above some gods of destruction.
Unless another retcon happens, this line doesn’t make sense
We’ve been god of destruction level since TOP
It’s not so much that they’re just moving Beerus’s power. The guy hasn’t exactly shown his full destruction form yet.
@@thevipez8740lol beerus didn't 1v1 the other gods of destruction it was a literal 11v1 and he came out on top even showcasing he can somewhat use ui and at the end of that battle it was only beerus and kitella left standing which would imply beerus is either the strongest or second strongest god of destruction
@@thevipez8740 lol cause that all happened after the fact they all tried to jump him and then he tricked them when he went up and they all thought they got him when in reality it was Champa you better re read that chapter again because as soon as the match started every single god of destruction goes after beerus
@@thevipez8740 your about to feel really stupid 😂😂😂
@@thevipez8740 lol you just admitted it happened in the beginning it doesn't matter if no one got hurt they still tried to jump him and failed as well and I never said he won it I said there was only beerus and kitella left standing at the end of the whole thing that would imply for him to either be the strongest or second strongest 😂😂😂
@@thevipez8740 lol when you have a 12 person free for all and there is only 2 people left standing that implies those two people are better then the rest and if you can't understand the implications of that then your more lost then I originally realized
Beerus is just far and away the strongest God of Destruction
but in the anime whis said that the god of destruction of jirens universe is stronger than beerus
@@Saroku1000didn’t say that
@@Saroku1000 he said something more like Jiren is stronger than a god of destruction.
@@Dat-Boi-Camoja yes he did, but it's a habit of db fans to not pay attention
@@theoneandonlyGRand he said "that destroyer is infact stronger than lord Beerus" but whatever manga Beerus is just different
This video was on POINT! Everything said was exactly what I've been saying. The anime and manga Goku should've BEEN passed Beerus but the scaling IS different for both. Goku and Vegeta in theory should have BEEN passed Beerus but they just don't want that. I would be fine with it if they stayed CONSISTENT from the beginning
Theory based on what? Lol people really need to stop over analysing dragon ball. It's made for kids. Things are pretty simple. Gods of destruction are leagues above mortals, the same way that angels are leagues above Gods of destruction. Everything else is information lost in translation. Japanese people have a different way of scaling and hyping up power to make characters look more exciting. Western audiences are the ones running with it and making a big deal out of everything.
Beerus is stronger than Frieza, black white or otherwise.
@@oldmanjesus9855 That doesn't mean they can't be surpassed. If there are instances of pieces of evidence that indicate otherwise then you can't blame us for believing what we believe
Bruh last time we saw Frieza was 2 years ago! Time flies
The only time we’ll know if Frieza is around Beerus’s level is when Whis has to intervene.
I feel like people have glossed over the fact that Frieza was literally thinking about overthrowing the Zeno's.
Whats even crazier? I'm not saying they could hear Frieza's thoughts, but i have a feeling they're like.... "Try us"
Man, how cool would that be to see? 😅 I'd love to see Frieza get his shit pushed in by them.
Zenos will literally play with black frieza he a joke compared the them
@@Ghost-rb5tg They are literally able to delete an entire timeline with no effort.. Then we have the Frieza race, able to work out and gain god strength within months. It's sooooo crazy
@@JACQUEZ23 Black Frieza isn't him wanting to challenge the Zeno's... Yet.
@@Dante-fb9ejand when they say comes he toss hand up erased
"Beerus" is the name of handgesture we Fishermen use to showcase our catch to other anglers. "How big was that fish dude? About *this* big Danny"
Beerus still has his incomplete UI up his sleeve. I imagine that boosts him up several tiers alone lol.
Jiren > His own God is Destruction
Belmod (indirectly stated) > Beerus
Therefore Jiren > Beerus
Goku (MUI) >/= Jiren
Yet Beerus > Goku????
Black Frieza > Goku post T.O.P but still < Beerus???
I still wanna say Beerus is getting stronger, just off camera training. Goku & Vegeta aren't the only ones who can get stronger than
you're comparing both anime and manga which is a bad move, because in the manga Beerus lost to arm wrestling to Quetila not Belmod
@@gerz667either way belmond damaged beerus in the manga. So he’s atleast in the ball park of his strength. Jiren is confirmed stronger so how would he not be able to do the same?
@@gerz667 wasn't the arm wrestling victor only confirmed to be Quetila in manga?
Cause I checked in sub & dub, all over RUclips, NEVER saw it stated where Quetila won. Whis did mention 'A God Stronger than Beerus' Beerus saying only lost the 1 time in arm wrestling, to which Whis said that God had a mortal stronger than them... Which would also be confusing since Quetila's mortals were dog water weak.
In the manga the arm wrestling was only mentioned during the skirmish before that all out battle
This could be me being dumb/taking it too literally, but I'm pretty sure in the Battle of God's movie Beerus stated that Ki can't hurt him
Head-canon is the *worst* thing a Dbz fan can say/do but I believe a certain amount of Ki can't phase Gods, it'll take an absurd amount of Ki for a mortal to generate to damage a god, but defeating them is neigh-impossible. Which is why I believe the Cereal Dragon couldn't make Gas or Granola 'The Strongest in the universe, except for the God'
Yeah kinda contradicting but Goku & Vegeta could be close, but still far while Frieza is able to fight mortals with Divine Ki, but not defeat a deity... Dbz/DBS hierarchy makes no sense 🤣
I mean, it technically, doesn’t matter now, because we have Daima, which might be a sequel to super
It isn’t. It’s just an anniversary special series. It’s a ONA series .
It isn't as super is still continuing probably for a long time
You always make My days with your content! Thanks 🎉🎉🎉🎉❤❤❤
I need to see beerus fight for his life using 100% of his full unrestricted maximum Destroyer God powers to see where he stands on the food chain at this current point in the overall story.
This is the problem we haven't seen Beerus fight since the introduction of Super. Super Saiyan God is below Beerus in power. We have nothing else to measure him one on one to see where anyone else stands. We have characters saying things about where other characters stand against the gods. If Beerus has a more advanced version of UI/UE or something I think he is MUCH stronger than everyone
I mean we did see that in the manga with the exibition match with all the GODs. They were told to go for the kill and they were all targeting Beerus.
@mds_main Nah bro that shit doesn't count...
@@tonyyoung5699
Why not? It's exactly what you described.
@@mds_main His life wasn't on the line... I'm not buying that crap
I believe one thing that everyone forgets is that even tho Black Frieza is strong, we can’t forget that he did catch Goku and Vageta off guard and I remember Whis scolded Goku about becoming complacent and not remaining focused when in battle.
And that’s exactly what happened here in my opinion.
no he didn’t lmao they watched him kill Gas
How does this man not have one mill subs yet? Keep up the grind, my guy.
I wouldn't be surprised if they say later, oh no Goku and Vegeta were just caught off guard and he isnt that much stonger
Geekdom back with another banger.
Geekbum 👌
@@Padre_Kalibre😂
a very good example of the goal post was when they said if beerus was a 10 goku would be a 7. pretty sure if ssg from battle of gods addded ssj on top he should be a 350 because of the 50X multiplier. but because on how they've treated goku and how unbelievably stronger he has gone since battle of gods and still is treated lesser to beerus. this makes me think beerus if a 10 goku must have been a tiny fraction or decimal in comparison from battle of gods. but i have a strong inclination by the end 2025 comes around goku and vegeta will finally surpass beerus
I rationalize the scale by saying UE and UI Goku and Vegeta are in the realm of base Beerus. But NOT Beerus if he uses UI Omen or his version of UE.
Goku & Frieza are like yin & yang, powerhouse opposites. Emperor Black Frieza back on his throne where he belongs (immeasurable)! I wouldn’t doubt if he wants to take out Toppo & Jiren for embarrassing him in the TOP?! We know his goal is to beat Beerus eventually (if possible), and Zenos last (I dunno how). He is the strongest but I think he has some other plan or way to kill the Gods besides power alone! There’s nothing in the Universe he isn’t privy to so maybe he will ask Zuno how to win or obtain some type of a God weapon or something. I just can’t wait to see where they take his character and who’s he going for first? They still haven’t shown other universes fighters, The Grand Priest fight, Zenos Guards, Zalama, etc there’s still a TON of story to fill and explore so I hope they don’t kill Frieza off as he adds soo much to the story, he’s unpredictable.
“Frieza cannot defeat Beerus, NO MATTER WHAT HE DOES” -Akira Toriyama
The guy that forgets the characters and forms he creates,sure.
For all we know Frieza has more forms up his sleeve
@@newhybrid101 Forgets or not. He and Toyotarou write the manga and they confirmed Frieza will never surpass Beerus.
What if that’s because Beerus has also secretly been training this entire time? I understand Beerus is lazy but I’m just saying, what if that’s a possibility? Or not even training but like somehow getting stronger whenever he naps or something? Surely he notices the saiyns are growing stronger and stronger and as much as Beerus likes the saiyans, do you think there’s info he’s purposely withholding in how exactly he is so strong in the first place? Just thinkin
@@skatenation91they will come up with some lame reason as necessary like “beerus gets stronger the more he sleeps” or some shit like that lol
I can see frieza rebuilding his army from different universes and using this new power to have some submit
All these crazy power ups for U7 and yet when the writers want to bring HIT and JIREN back, they’ll get a random power boost from out of nowhere 😅
Tbf, It's not a stretch to think Hit, an assassin, and Jiren, a soldier who prides himself on strength, have been keeping up their training off screen - especially after what they witnessed and achieved in the last arc
That goes for the other warriors from the ToP
My guess is that all the hype talk in the TOP was all Toei. Not that what Toyo has done is from Toriyama. At this point it’s clear Toyo wants to keep the surpass Beerus moment for the future which I can understand.
I dont think we've seen Beerus 100% against any mortal and i think he may be growing now too that everyone catching up
Beerus isn't a "walking goalpost." Remember, he also trains with Whis. Not to mention the THOUSANDS UPON THOUSANDS of years of training he has under his belt versus freiza's 10 years in a hyperbolic dimension.
Had to watch soon as I saw the title
I think part of the problem is we are continually reaching the ceiling in terms if power so unless the show or the manga is really about to end then this might always be a problem. I also think it’s also like you said, Beerus can be a moving goalpost, and they can explain this by saying that Beerus is hiding an unknown amount of his power and at the same time he is continuing to get stronger
Characters could crap out new transformations every week. Powerups mean practically nothing and Toriyama keeps Beerus ahead as if nothing changed
Ok genuinely I know that the gods of destruction and beerus are stronger in the manga but legitimately with how we’ve seen frieza grow before how is he still not at that level??
By your logic Belmod is the weakest God cause Jiren is stated to be stronger then him. But he actually like top 5. Freiza is stronger then every God but Beerus.
@@toxicninjazxyeah that’s what makes the most sense to me because beerus was show to be the strongest outright
Ehhh I wouldn’t say beerus is the strongest God it’s between him and quietla they were a complete stalemate.
I feel like you misunderstood the statement. The writers of the manga and anime know what the other is doing. Yes there is a promotional speech to hype. Though the power of Gods does not mean the same as the power of trained gods/experienced gods. Our God of destruction lost in arm wrestling but dominated his god tournament. I'd argue they left his skills/powers vague enough to say he is leagues above the other gods all around. One god of destruction may have been passed in the tournament of power but that doesn't mean all of them were. Maybe he is a goal post or maybe he is from the main character's universe and he has always had more power and potential than any god of destruction ever as implied with his slight knowledge of angelic techniques. Toppo was a god in training. He is nowhere near some of the current enemies/heroes strength. He is "god level/power" though. Love the videos man.
Wasn't Toppo basically a GoD? And wouldn't Vageta and Goku whip Toppo?
a G.o.d candidate.
I think you don't understand dbs manga and anime.
By not stronger than a God of destruction they are referring to Berrus.
Jiren is stronger than belmod but is weaker than berrus. Toppo is as strong as belmod.
Berrus is the strongest being before the angel, has been training for eons until noone could rival him. Then he got bored and started sleeping until a new warrior shoeed up to rival him. Whis is training goku for berrus as he knows goku will be able to rival berrus.
If Toyotaro states that Frieza is just below the level of a GoD, then you really have to think that Gohan Beast could be close to if not on par with the level of Black Frieza since it’s been stated that Gohan is the strongest of all the Z-Warriors.
stronger...powerful....yes...
but martial arts is much more important than the how powerful someone is
7:19 what if the Kai’s have different power levels as well. Universe 7 and 9 was the lowest of the universes ranked out of 14. And remember Zamasu was just a trainee 😂 goku called Zeno 😂 im dead 😭
Topo also said that based on raw power alone, jiren is stronger than his God of destruction. Also, once topo and vegta transform with haki energy they become much more powerful than they previously were. Topo was referring to Belmond without using haki energy.
I feel they mean Beerus with the statement.
Because even the kai from universe 9 thought it wouldnt be easy to defeat golden Freeza by sidra
In the same ep. We saw how powerful beerus was. It took freeza effort to control hakai, while beerus just blow the same hakai with mere air 😅
Beerus is like a fusion of goku and vegeta, he possesses both UI and energy of destruction, whis said he’s still not mastered it
The term moving goal posts comes to mind.
Let's also remember that lord beers went up against several other gods of destruction and was clearly superior. So..... not all gods are created as equals.... lol. When it comes to the realm of God hood berus is up there. Now frieze might be the level of the fox or maybe even the mouse (can't remember the names) but not quite berus 😅 but that's just my 2 sense
There is always someone out there that's stronger I believe is what berus said in 101
Bro you don't no what your saying
Nah I think he's on to something!!!!!
All that image training Mr. Beers is doing while he sleeps is where the confusion is coming from yall
We Knew the power scale was 100% Different when Gohan Fought Kefla to a Double K.O
😂
Don’t forget Roshi using UI to dodge Jiren’s attacks in the manga.
Its forever going to be a moving goal post with this power crap.
Toyotaro is hesitant to let Goku surpass Beerus because with how this series work, a character becomes basically irrelevant the second Goku surpasses them. Beerus is a very popular character, so Toyotaro doesn’t want him to become irrelevant
You mean Toriyama, he had said a while ago that he didn't want Goku and Vegeta surpassing Beerus.
If that’s true, I wonder if Frieza is as strong as Topo was in the anime version of the tournament of power. If I remember correctly, it was said that he was a god of destruction in training when he fought Vegeta. I wouldn’t be completely shaking in my boots if I’m on the dragon team, but I would certainly be aware of that.
Don't compare him to toppo he's way stronger than anyone in the anime Besides beerus and the gods above
@@godslayer8894 In the anime version of events, who would you compare Frieza at this point to then?
@@anthonynotte5901 Stronger than all the mortals
@@godslayer8894 Excluding mortals with a relatively low power level as far as the series is concerned, where would you place Frieza in the anime version of event? I would still put him at the same level as Topo, or if I’m being generous, I’d say past Topo and at first form Jiren in terms of strength.
@@anthonynotte5901 People seem to highly underate The Manga black frieza is more powerful than anyone in the DBS anime . As the gods destruction, are protrayed better in the Manga and seem to be more powerful. Maybe that will change when the anime comes back. As they will adapt, these arcs And the gods will probably be portrayed better But black frieza is easily stronger than any of the warriors in the tournament of power And saying he's a strong is t o p toppo Is a huge low ball He is a God of destruction candidate. He's not as strong as the gods themselves. As in terms of power the manga has long surpassed the anime As the gods seem too be much stronger In the manga Than Does that anime maybe that portrayal will change one day
I only keep accepting Beerus’s power ceiling being raised because he is a million years old. Look at all the forms and techniques Goku and Vegeta accumulated in just 50 years time!
This is an excellent statement about the powerscaling in the manga vs the series and would explain how UI goku and UE Vegeta are weaker in the manga allowing someone like plot armor black Frieza to take them out. I do want to point out that in the manga beerus told Vegeta when he was in his blue form that he was strong enough to be a god of destruction, but not even close to him. So in the manga UI goku and Vegeta te plenty strong enough to be gods of destruction and stronger than some of the gods, but not the strongest like Beerus! I do not think beerus is weaker in the series, just Ui is a lot stronger as it should be. Jiren was also stated to be stronger than his god of destruction and whis mentioning that beerus lost a fight to him once, but I think that line can be retconned as a joke or whatever.
As for the hype of “oh this new character is the strongest” is so true and I’m tired of it! They just don’t get it that they don not have to make the next villain or whatever the strongest to keep peoples attention!
I care a lot more about the series than the mange, but it doesn’t seem super will come back due to the children’s series coming out.
I can’t believe it’s been 10 years since battle is the gods! Super still feels like a newer series!
I mean, the power scaling of the anime and the manga is just different in large part. The stories are even different. I would say the manga is overall quite a lot worse than the anime, but it is a simple fact that the anime and the manga are quite different and how they told their stories and how they wanted the franchise to go forward. I do have the comment on something that you said. That is very stupid super not coming back. It's because of the lack of manga material. The people behind the manga are very adamant that they want the manga to be ahead of the anime. Because they're sick and tired of the poor sales it has nothing to do with daima and calling it a children's series is unbelievably ignorant. Would you say the same for original dragon ball? Just because the main character is a child?
@@msbkaioken136 the manga is a lot worse than the series, which is why I’ve been waiting for the series to continue. It is true that Toyotaru wants the series to follow the manga like it used to so he can lead the story; that was clear as he was rewriting the tournament of power arc. I think there is enough to do a couple of seasons of dragonball, but yes I agree there should be more; but with chapter 101 out there is more to follow and as long as it keeps coming the series should lag behind. I
do think Toyotaru is running out of ideas and has not followed up with the other universes and there is still the 5 strongest that was mentioned. I mentioned the new children’s dragonball series because the fact is it is for children as they are trying to bring dragonball to a new generation; Geekdom did talk about this, he just didn’t directly state the series is for children, just marketed to children to being in a new market segment. So no this is not an ignorant statement, but a statement based on what we know and have been told. I think that is a good idea but I don’t have confidence that they will be able to handle two series at once. The characters power levels are also said to be much lower, since they have become so strong. Geekdom also mentioned that dragonball super is unlikely to return anytime soon, he made a video about this; so given all this information I am not confident that dragonball super series will continue, especially if the children’s series does really well.
@@adrastoso9727 okay, so a few things toyotaro is not the one I was referring to. I'm referring to the company that's behind the manga the people with the real power being upset, not him specifically. Next no, there is absolutely not enough material to bring dragonball super back they are not going to do a seasonal format. They just will not if it comes back. It will air every week with very few breaks for 2 or 3 years. So there is absolutely not enough material to make it into a long-running anime right now. Once again, dragonball daima is absolutely not for children. This is just objectively false. It is absolutely not being marketed towards children either. What are you talking about? Once again false and ignorant. It's not meant to be for new generation. It's not being marketed for children. Geekdom did not say this if anything. It's literally meant to be for a long time fans, because it's meant to celebrate the 40th anniversary of dragonball. Why would they not be able to handle 2 stories at the same time? The anime and the manga production is to completely separate things that don't interfere with each other at all. At this point you're really frustrating me with baseless assumptions and extrapolations based off of things no one has said.
@adrastoso9727 Worse than the series? Well, not really. The Trunks arc was miles better in the manga. The TOP was better in the anime, so that's one win for both. With the anime behind the manga this time, it could likely properly adapt it, so don't expect completely different versions of the recent arcs.
@@j04370859 Absolutely it's worse the Manga barely had a battle of God's arc. It didn't have resurrection of f the universe 6 tournament had completely unnecessary changes that were not hype in comparison to the anime the future trunks, arc disrespected the character. The entire arc is about in the Manga and obviously the top was significantly worse. The Manga is blatantly worse than the anime by a large margin which isn't surprising. Considering it was literally promotional material for the anime.
Well they did use a clever Idea to mask this moving goal post... The Ultra Ego concept.
Beerus said to Vegeta that his power is basically limitless since he thinks about destruction and nothing else. It's as if he is constantly in UE like Whis is with UI
Beerus doesn't train, so all he had to do is train a bit and double his power lol
If you payed attention, Beerus doesn’t need to train. That’s how strong he is and still has never shown his dangerous powers
Beerus does train. He just does it in private. He's said this already lmao 💀
"Don't mess with us dragonball fans we haven't watched the show"
He even said it in the manga 💀
@@SouthPlaya Yet black Frieza would pwn him.
At this point I'm certain Beerus pops into the Room of Space and Time real quick whenever someone reaches his power just to go "Yeah, no."
Ik their secret regretting give jiren the “being stronger than a GoD” title and giving goku UI and just giving anyone deity forms at all.
This is just making this all a headache now.
They jumped the gun. Super was poorly planned from the beginning. They should have been patient, and saved those major payoffs for later. How are they gonna have Goku beat up someone said to have surpassed Beerus before Goku and Beerus even have a rematch? Smh...
@@AndrewAce.they should’ve developed the ssj god forms and then later on give goku and vegeta ui and ue
@@pt5728 It definitely doesn't help that SSJG, the form that incited the events of DBS, was replaced after 1 movie. I think UI should have been saved for after Goku and Beerus fought again...
There is a way for moving Goal post Beerus to make sense. It could be that he started taking his training with Whis more seriously whenever Goku and Vegeta aren't around so he can stay ahead of them both every time they come close. Goku and Vegeta are actually Beerus' rivals which may be part of the reason why Whis agreed to train them both in order to motivate Beerus, all while getting tasty food out of the deal.
But that's just a theory. An anime theory.
If Black Freeza isn’t at least as strong as Beerus then that’s bullshit. I remember when we were leading up to the ToP and all the material said that Jiren had surpassed the destroyers. Then they decided to make Beerus even stronger since he’s the “ever moving goal post”
Geekdom, you're forgetting Beerus is way more older than the Z warriors, that's a factor we all DB fans have to consider as well so, technically Beerus is way more powerful than Black Frieza.... Don't forget there's a deep reasons King Cold warn Frieza to avoid fighting Majin Boo or Beerus
The only way this would make sense is that Beerus must've been sneaking in some training when he realized Goku and Vegeta were catching up to him. In a way, I can see Beerus feeling threatened if the gap between him and Sayians starts to shrink so he stops being lazy and starts training again. They could easily say we never see Beerus train because he does it in private(off-screen). He doesn't want anyone to see him because they might think he's getting weak or he's scared of Goku & Vegeta surpassing him.
I mean beerus is millions of years old if you really think about it it makes no sense that they could even come close to his level when he could have millions of years of training
Here's the thing we know next to nothing about the Gods Of Destruction in terms of combat. We know they are very strong and can use hakai. The only time we've seen a full on GoD fight for a while was in Battle of Gods. They could have different levels of MUI like different levels of Super Sayian.
I saved this video before I go to bed - Black Frieza’s power is one I can’t wait for! Also at this point I don’t even know when we will see Beerus at full power! So much potential for the story in the upcoming future. Hopefully it’ll be sooner than later. Geekdom don’t miss with the vids! 💪
black frieza is nowhere near lmaooo beerus and whis would’ve known first before anyone else
Dude that panel of frieza has to be the coolest panel. Frieza is just so dope
Any news on dragon ball super season 2 ?
Bro really? You're asking that when Daima hasn't even come out yet? Have some patience. I don't understand why people like you have no respect for time.
Hopefully never. Super has always been hella terrible.
@@DraggyCashand i hope it never does, we have no idea how Daima is gonna turn out but i already hate it they did not leave a good impression on me turing the entire cast to kids
@@TMind109 that video of Daima was already stated to be just from the first episode. So then being kids the entire time might not be the case. Honestly, I'd wait instead of assuming. Cause you will never know.
*Easiest way to scale up the power level of Vegeta and Goku at the time of getting "one shot" by Black Frieza is to say they were somewhat caught off guard and didn't fully brace for the attack.*
How can it be a moving goal post if that goal post was never stated were it was? When we find out how strong Beerus really is he'll be leaps and bounds more powerful then any mortal.
Beerus was injured by Belmods cards in the manga, so the gap in power can't be that big, even if it's a big gap, yet Jiren was stated to be stronger than Belmod in the manga. And then they've gotten dozens of times stronger since then.
Beerus is stronger yes, but it makes no logical sense
bro they're pulling a One Punch Man "above Dragon" type shit
I would love for Freeza to end up being a God of destruction ^^
He already is, he just does it for free...
@@AndrewAce.Well no he isn't because he if he goes too far out of hand the real God will obliterate him lol
@@derekosgood3230 heh
I look at it as “A god of destruction” doesn’t mean it’s Beerus … I remember Beerus saying Vegeta could be a god of destruction for another universe but not U7 … not that they are moving the goal post but G.O.D level has tiers
Just like you said man the GOD's are just moving post goals at this point. Hope they stop it sometime
Wow summer of 2022 it’s been that long since black frieza arrived 😭 time went so quick
I would assume every Kai is not is as week as uni 7 💯🤷🤔
From what my friend explained is that Goku and Vegeta been at the level of the Gods (because every god aren't the same level) Beerus most likely is the strongest or top 2 of all of the Gods. Now, after 10 years of training, Frieza is approaching or near Beerus's level. We don't know if Beerus trains, and we don't know how fast he grows from it either, but it makes sense to me. Goku and them should not be close to his level at this point in time. Lastly even in the anime I never believed Goku or Jiren was stronger than Beerus just stronger than a few gods and Belmont that's all.
And I almost got crucified when I said years ago that Jiren is not stronger than the Gods
He was just in the anime.. the manga scaling is way more inconsistent with their power
Cause in the anime Jiren was indeed stronger than the gods, including Beerus. But in the manga we only know that Jiren is stronger than his god Belmod.
@@HavokUnbound I think it could be either way. Theres always been evidence for both sides but even in the Dragonball Super: Broly movie, Goku implies that he and Vegeta (who should be stronger or as as strong as anime Jiren) have still not surpassed the Gods. He does so near the end
@@dimitri4888 It never said every god, just the benchmark power level for one. For example, in the Naruto Shippuden guidebooks it states that Hebi Sasuke surpassed the Akatsuki. Now we know that version of Sasuke was not stronger than each member of the Akatsuki individually, moreso that he has surpassed the average power level of the collective. Statements like this are used to show that a character is in or has surpassed a certain "tier". In both anime and manga, Beerus is sort of implied to be the strongest. He was down right stated to be the strongest in the Broly movie light Novel. But I can definitely see anime Goku being stronger than Beerus atleast in Mastered UI
@TreyHallRH3 Sorry I was a bit wrong in the manga part, in a manga guide it states that Jiren exceeds the power of the Gods of destruction, but that's excluding Beerus forsure. Meanwhile in the anime Whis and guides say that Jiren/UI Goku surpassed Beerus and the gods.
Bruh considering how long beerus lived and if we took the amount of time he ACTUALLY TRAINED with Whis which would obviously be above the time goku and vegeta ever trained for then nobody realistically would be on beerus's level/ full power.
Including if we're taking in that the Japanese like to hype up characters like gohan who had 0 training and just pulled up to the fight would some how even with his potentially stacked on top would reach goku's level who were stated in the ANIME that they we're on the level of the Gods
I think they mean he's close to Beerus, and that Goku and Vegeta are at the level(or above) certain Gods.Therefore all three could annihilate some of the lesser Gods.
All they need to do is have Beerus say "you think I've been napping all this time?"
Don't forget, ever since he got brought back for the ToP, Frieza has been GUNNING for Beerus and the realm of the gods. I think this could imply a future plot point of Frieza attempting a sneaky one-up in on Beerus at some point, or maybe him seizing another universe's GoD position. Frieza is definitely still Goku and Vegeta's fight though, ultimately.
It’s hard watching you try to defend the power scaling in this series bro