Is the LDS Church growing... or shrinking?
HTML-код
- Опубликовано: 1 окт 2024
- Here is a short explanation of my thoughts regarding the claimed growth of the Mormon church. If one were to take them at face value, the church is doing great! Upon closer inspection, however... they been STRUGGLING.
Looks like the algorithm's sending this to salty mormons lol
😂 ikr?!!
When the Internet became mainstream, they took a major hit in growth. When the Internet became mobile, they took another hit in growth. When the pandemic hit, many realized that life was just as good or better at home than going to Church or they investigated their belief with their free time.
You make valid points.
This is really interesting infomation! Is there a source you can give us, or did you compile this? I'd love to look at the #s for all the years.
And I definitely agree that a better measure would be the # of current Temple recommend holders. A lot of us who have "lost our testimonies" ( read awakened to reality) are still members.
Three of my children and I left. I was the only one who formally resigned. My children just walked away.
Hi cousin!
I’m from the John Toone polygamous clan-first wife who moved to SLC when her horny husband returned from his mission with 2 wives that were a reward from Brigham Young because John endured that fateful Willie Martin handcart disaster!
I have a Mormon resume similar to yours! I even served a mission in Chile back when the only sisters who served at the age of 21 were not the marriage candidates! Between me and my husband, we served in 2 bishoprics (I served by supporting him being gone for up to 12 hours every Sunday for 9 years!) When we lived in Hawaii we had 6 callings between us which included bishopric, primary president, RS counselor, etc etc etc. after 55 years of stalwart blindness, God softened our hearts, opened our eyes, and led us OUT of the Mormon church!
I can tell you that the majority of John Toones ancestors that I know have left the Mormon church. Ironically, God woke us up with the church essay on polygamy!
We were terrified and programmed to read that anti Mormon literature that turned out to be church history! 😂
So I’m telling you all this to lead to the fact that there are 100s of Toones with our names still on the church records who have left the man made religion formed on the “firm” foundation of polygamy and Masonic secrets and lies.
It’s amazing that so many are waking up. I don’t think Joseph Smith or Brigham Young were told by God that the internet would come and their heinous crimes against humanity would be broadcasted from the air to every home! So much for that seer stone!
Life is so much better now that we aren’t following the false profit of the corporation!
Hi cousin!
I’m from the John Toone polygamous clan-first wife who moved to SLC when her horny husband returned from his mission with 2 wives that were a reward from Brigham Young because John endured that fateful Willie Martin handcart disaster!
I have a Mormon resume similar to yours! I even served a mission in Chile back when the only sisters who served at the age of 21 were not the marriage candidates! Between me and my husband, we served in 2 bishoprics (I served by supporting him being gone for up to 12 hours every Sunday for 9 years!) When we lived in Hawaii we had 6 callings between us which included bishopric, primary president, RS counselor, etc etc etc. after 55 years of stalwart blindness, God softened our hearts, opened our eyes, and led us OUT of the Mormon church!
I can tell you that the majority of John Toones ancestors that I know have left the Mormon church. Ironically, God woke us up with the church essay on polygamy!
We were terrified and programmed to read that anti Mormon literature that turned out to be church history! 😂
So I’m telling you all this to lead to the fact that there are 100s of Toones with our names still on the church records who have left the man made religion formed on the “firm” foundation of polygamy and Masonic secrets and lies.
It’s amazing that so many are waking up. I don’t think Joseph Smith or Brigham Young were told by God that the internet would come and their heinous crimes against humanity would be broadcasted from the air to every home! So much for that seer stone!
Life is so much better now that we aren’t following the false profit of the corporation!
Have you considered also the amount of people they claim as members who have left the church and just haven’t legally removed their records? And those who get baptized and then never come back to church, and that they count people who they can’t find until they are 110 years old (many or most of whom are already passed on)?
I'm not sure what the point of this video is. Does anyone care?
Its interesting to know which religions are growing and which are not and the reasons why behind them. I would expect Mormonism to decrease with the expansion of information availability but they have a very strong family bond and they are taught to ignore information in favor of their internal witness and that might actually keep the church out of decline. At least in America all religious membership has declined with the rise of secularism and scientism. In that environment the Mormon church has exponentially more issues then does traditional Christianity.
@@blusheep2this implies that the answer is obviously that the religion is false if you just were smart enough or had enough information. Is that the claim you are seeking to make?
@@germanmarine6582 No, not really. I was just saying that these issues would be something to care about.
Now I can answer your question because I do imply something close to what your asking me about... I do think the religion is obviously false. I feel its the most easily falsifiable religion that I am familiar with. With that being said, I would follow it up with "you would understand this if you were smart enough or had enough information."
People that are smart and have plenty of information make bad belief decisions all the time and so having information and smarts alone, doesn't guarantee that one will believe true things.
@@blusheep2 that’s a pretty wild claim tbh. I’ve watched and read honestly weeks of anti content. Do you have something. You think is a smoking gun?
@@germanmarine6582 Its not a wild claim at all, in my opinion.
Its not just a single thing though I think there are many single things that demonstrate Joseph Smith was a false prophet, but its that there are SO MANY things. I've spoken with many Mormons. I've read the Book of Mormon. I've been to Temple Square 4 or 5 times, taken the tour once and used the genealogy center once. I've sat through the 5 or 6 week presentation by the Missionaries, some 25 years ago. I even went to their church, sat through a Bible study and met with their mentors. We took them flying to see their house. Everything I say, I don't say lightly because I genuinely like Mormons, but I think they are deceived. In the end, every Latter Day Saint I've encountered, falls back on their internal witness because they are taught "from birth" that the only way to truly know the truth is from this "burning in the bosom." So it doesn't matter how much evidence is stacked up against Joseph. I don't expect any different from you, if you are indeed a Mormon, as you come across.
I love you man. I feel akin to Mormons because I believe Mormons love the God they believe in and want to make good choices and they share some of the same family and moral values I do, but here is what I would say to your question.
Two main things. First, the Bible tells us how to test one to see if they are true prophets. We are warned against the many false prophets and teachers that will come and how to vet them. We are told to look at their fruits. So lets do that....
1)After Joseph received his first visitation when he was 15, he became a con artist. He used a "magic" seer stone and duped a man into believing he could find buried treasure.
2)When he "found" the plates and began transcribing them, he used the very same occultic seer stone to do so.
3)Later, after he founded his first "city" in Kirtland he opened a ponzi scheme bank which was itself illegal. He paid a 1000 dollar fine for this which was no chump change in those days. About 34,000 in today's money. This led to people losing their life savings, both in and out of the church.
4)Many are upset about his polygamy. I don't care about that. What I care about is that he married multiple woman without his wife Emma's knowledge, much less consent. And though he was able to get her consent, he never had her approval.
5)He lied about these polygamous relationships to the Mormons until he was about to be exposed by an ex-Mormon who left because of this. The man was about to go to press and he sent his goons down to the press and had them utterly destroy it so that he couldn't print. He did this as mayor and is the reason that he was finally arrested.
6)The polygamy had another gross side to it as well. He used the manipulating techniques that modern day predators use. In multiple cases he told these woman, who weren't running into his arms that there was an angel present with a large sword and if they didn't say yes then the angel would kill him. In another instance he told a 17 year old that God was giving her the gift of marrying him. When she said no, he promised her that by saying yes, her family would be guranteed heavenly blessings. She said no. He left her alone but came back some time later and told her it was her last chance. When she said no once again, he promised her that all the blessings would be withheld from her family. They would lose them all if she said no. She still did but came around later. This is textbook predator.
Now the other way we are to vet a prophet is to vet them against the scriptures.
When Jesus is before the Sanhedrin they ask him if He was the Messiah. His answer goes like this, "I am, and you will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven." The Sanhedrin called this blaspheme and began to plan his death? Why? This is a claim to deity. This is a quote from Daniel but the most important part is phrase "coming on the clouds of heaven." You see this phrase was well known in the ancient world, going back to early OT. Variations of it can be found in Ugarit, Egypt, and the Bible. Baal is said to "ride on the clouds." This idiom of the ancient world is ONLY used for the gods/God. When Jesus said they would see Him coming on the clouds, they knew exactly what His claim was.
Now jump to Isaiah 14:14. Here is where we find the story of Lucifer being exiled from heaven. Its says here(starting in 13) that Lucifer "said in his heart, "I will rise above the clouds. I will be like the Most High."
Knowing what we know about this idiom, we can rephrase the verse in our modern vernacular. "said in his heart, 'I will become a god. I will be like the Most High."
Joseph Smith and the Mormon church teaches the very same ambition of Lucifer, that saw him removed from heaven. He taught that we can all become gods and be like the Most High when the Bible says in Isaiah 43:10 "before Me there was no God FORMED, nor will any be FORMED after me.
You are looking at the numbers during the pandemic as evidence of the church shrinking?
The guy in the video don't realize that in the last days leading up to the Second Coming the Lord will be doing all his speaking
of his words roaring his voice through living prophets from out of Zion and from Jerusalem.
@@germanslice yes the treasure is always just another foot deeper. Keep digging. Eventually these things will come to pass! (Or .. you die and tell your kids it will happen to them.. repeat on and on...)
@@TheSandyStone I already know the truth because its written in Joel Chapter 3 of the Bible about what the Lord is going to do in the last days.
@@germanslice When it produces a stock ticker to invest in, let me know. Until then, generations will keep on waiting… and waiting … your comments remind me of Jehovah’s Witnesses saying the same thing.
He has the records right there. That seems to be the implication. The time when the church wasn’t even aloud to talk to people and thus had very little growth. In some areas it’s still like that believe it or not…
wow another disenfranchised bloke trying to convince the rest of us faithful LDS that he is right, and like all those who preceded him he is also providing no new evidence or data just the same regurgitated nonsense that just makes my faith that much stronger and glad that I am led by a living prophet
@@PeterNield-k7s Wow another Mormon who ignores the actual data I present in favor of their emotionally-based "testimony."
If you have any _meaningful_ feedback, I'm all ears!
@@ryanjosiah wow as always you presented nothing to help your cause with the data you presented. For future reference "stats" can be manipulated to suit any agenda. How about actually focusing on the good that people do instead of trying to debunk things you have no knowledge on or pure understanding of. As like the many that have come before you that are disenfranchised you present nothing that makes a compelling argument other than regurgitates the same BS that has also guess what been proved false. Once again, the truth wins, and a Living Prophet guides the Lord's church on earth.
Get back to me when there is anything that actually makes me think that the LDS church is lying to its members or not true, I won't hold my breath as there's nothing out there.
@@ryanjosiah quite funny that you profess to have left the church but make ill-informed and uneducated videos about the faith, if you left why make videos professing to know everything but have NO new evidence of anything that hasn't already been proved false
@@PeterNield-k7s Lol feel free to actually come with examples and evidence... like I do! Until then.
@@ryanjosiah your evidence has already been debunked feel free to actually get your own ideas instead of piggy backing off the exmos before you who also have found their claims to be false
Honest question, WHY do you worry about this? Why worry about whether the Church grows or not? you're out of the church; focus on something else, bro; find a new belief system, new religion, or something that brings peace/love to you and your loved ones. (Im am an inactive member)
@@Irvingdector for the same reasons I do. I join the church at 19 and was a member for nearly 20 years. IT’S ALL ABOUT INFORMED CONSENT. I was never told about the incredibly racist teachings of early church leaders, the fact that Joseph Smith practiced polyandry (He was married to women who were already married to living men who are good members of the church), I was not told about blood atonement as taught by Brigham Young, and I was not taught about the second anointing, which completely negates any claim that the church is Christian. I also wasn’t taught that in spite of the massive genealogy studies that the church does, DNA shows no signs of any Native American and Semitic bloodlines meeting the way they would have had Nephi actually come to this continent. That’s literal proof of a lie. You cannot argue with DNA. I also wasn’t taught the exact same errors and translations in the king James version of the Bible are in the book of Mormon when the same scriptures are used. This is of course, obvious plagiarism.
Had I known these things I never would’ve joined . So why didn’t they tell me? Why can I almost guarantee that even if you’ve been a member of the church a long time or your whole life you yourself don’t know these things? Because they know people won’t join if they know these things. You can be a part of religion, but I believe a person should know what they’re getting into.
Please understand this is why he’s focusing on this . If you look at any of the other ex Mormons RUclips channels, they all say the same thing. It’s all about informed consent.
@@Irvingdector because, although we can leave the church, the church never leaves us alone 😄. Pretty hard to escape it's grasp. Many of us are still living here in Utah, and the church has it's tentacles everywhere, in politics, in education, land use, public discourse, etc. you pretty well have to follow the ins and outs of the church. Which is fine, I just wish they were more honest and transparent. That is what they preach after all.
This guy gets triggered from temple building. Oh no the church isn’t growing it must not be true crowd says the guy who lives by every wind of emotional reaction.
Phillip, have you read the SEC Report? just google "SEC Ensign Peak" and read the 9- page pdf that comes up. After you read it, could you return here and tell me what you discovered? Thanks.
Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it. Too much growth is never expected.
Except for all the comments by all the search church leaders who were establishing Zion, were hailing the coming of christ, and that it would sweep the world. Except for all those quotes.
Don't confuse acceptance of the message with hearing of the message. The message has been heard by an exponentially increasing number of people and has nearly reached the entire world.
@@whyisgamora3721 Especially when you have people like you who deny our doctrine in favor of a pseudo history because it is easier.
@@dylanwilliams2202 I believe Joseph. It's pretty simple.
@@whyisgamora3721 If you believed Joseph Smith then you wouldn't go against D&C 132 and believe in a pseudo history that requires you to say that hundreds of people lied and go against the Prophet Brigham Young. It's pretty simple
I realize you are of the same mind set as a Flat Earther but don't sit here and act like you are a faithful member of the Church
I think that 2020, which was your example of shrinking membership, is due 100% to a global pandemic where missionary activity was severely limited. Last year (2023), over 250,000 converts joined The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and barring any cataclysmic world events, the annual growth of the church will continue at a similar pace.
The big question though, Jim, is how many of those converts are sticking around for the long term? In my observation, the vast majority leave, in some cases 100%, but the church continues to claim the full amount. Kind of sneaky and deceptive on their part, don't you think? But again, considering who we are dealing with, would we consider anything different?
@@davisrand756 100% of what are leaving? That comment doesn't make since without additional clarification.
And as far as the church's membership numbers, how do you propose that they count membership? If someone leaves and removes their records, they are obviously no longer included in the membership total. If someone misses church for a week, do you not count them any longer? How about a month? A year? Members leave and come back all of the time, so it's a very dynamic number, and I think the church makes a reasonable effort to report accurately.
Oh, and "the vast majority leave" doesn't ring true to me at all. Where is this happening?
I don't think you know how stakes are made
You can tell you are not an honest person.
I could say the same about you, but that would only be on the basis of your comment to say that someone else isn't an honest person by not having enough information to honestly assess that.
The church is not honest. They're setting a very poor example for the members. You're drinking the punch
@@seandenham3156 and yet you can’t back that up with evidence? He’s backing the church’s dishonesty up with evidence. One simple truth of life that the church will never ever teach is that feelings are not facts and evidence will always lead to the truth. Rather, they will have you believe that feelings (your testimony) is fact and that actual evidence has nothing to do with knowing truth. This is something that any rational thinker will be able to identify is nonsense.
Yes, it is growing. There are more joining every month than leaving.
In the last 25 to 30 years 7 to 10 Million of us former members have fled the cult. Two to five million are actually active believing member nowadays, by estimates.
True, but that's using the churches numbers, I believe (could be mistaken). Many (most even) people that leave, don't actually remove their records nor get excommunicated. I am in that situation myself. So, not sure how good of a picture we really have. Like the poster said, it would be more interesting to show the number of temple recommend holders year over year.
@@carolyearsleyNo, it's totally ridiculous your claim. It's impossible that less than 5 millions are believers ? From 2 to 5 millions could be for Usa only. Globally the actual Church believers are likely between 6 and 9 millions. Probably active membership is between 5 and 7 millions.
@@giuliom3564 Many members are PIMO=physically in mentally out. Even if your number of 7 million at the most being active, that is a whole lot less than the 17 million the so called church claims.
@@brianrosenlof388 Three of my children walked away and never had their records removed.