@@ji8044 My understanding was that sin nature was imputed from Adam to all his descendants. Not that Adam's sin(s) are our sins, but that we inherited our sin nature. Meaning that given enough time and opportunity we WILL sin because we have a nature to sin. Romans 5:12. The though on Jesus is that he was conceived by the Holy Spirit, therefore the sin nature was not passed down to him. Which is why the virgin birth was so crucial. To be fair, this has been argued by the Church for years.
Edit: Through careful study of this passage, I've changed my mind on what I think Paul was saying. I still hold to the theology of 'through Adam came the knowledge requried for humanity to be held accountable for our sin', but I wont be using this passage from Romans to support this notion. I think any interpretation of what humanity got from Adam in relation to sin fits with this passage of Romans. It seems to me that verses 12-14 of Romans 5 seem to have the follow flow of logic. 12: Sin and therefore death (as in the knowledge required to be held accountable for our actions and therefore separation from God) came into the world via Adam. 13: There was sin before the Mosaic Law, but there is no accountability for sin where there is no law. 14: Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses (IE there was accountability for sin after Adam and prior to Moses giving the Mosaic Law). Verse 14 seems to be implying there was a form of law prior to Mosaic law, which shouldn't be surprising considering Paul already, back in chapter 2, spoke about a law written on the hearts of gentines who are apart from the Law of Moses. It seems to me that any interpretation of what humanity got from Adam in relation to sin (be it guilt of his sin, sinful nature where ours wasn't prior, or the knowledge required to be held accountable for our actions) fits with this passage of Romans. Below this is my original comment. Inherited guilt of sin and inherited sinful nature are not taught by scripture. Something else seems to be taught, and this is what I think based on scripture. 1: Absolutely nowhere in scripture does it clearly state that we inherit GUILT of sin from Adam. You might try to interpret some verses to mean that, but no scripture directly states that. 2: Inherited guilt is DIRECTLY taught against in scripture. Ezekiel 18:20 " The person who sins will die. A son will not suffer the punishment for the father’s guilt, nor will a father suffer the punishment for the son’s guilt; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself." 3: Similarly, nowhere in scripture does it clearly state that we inherited a sinful nature from Adam. 4: This should go without saying, but all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So to point 5, something came to all of humanity via Adam and it relates to sin somehow, so what was it? 5: It seems to me that what came to all of humanity via Adam was the knowled required to be held accountable for sin. Here's my case. Romans 5:12-13 "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mankind, because all sinned- 13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not counted against anyone when there is no law. You probably need to re-read these verses a few times to wrap your head around what Paul is saying. What we can conclude from these verses are the following... A: Sin was in the world prior to Adam. It says "...for until the law sin was in the world..." IE sin was in the world even prior to the law (in this case, law can't be referring exclusively to the Mosaic law because this law came through Adam, and because of point B... B: Humanity was not held accountable for their sin without this law. It says "...but sin is not counted against anyone where there is no law." If you think "law" meant specifically the Mosaic law then you'd have to suggest that those not bound by the Mosaic law are blamess for their sin, which clearly isn't the case. Also, this law is inferred to have come into the world via Adam, not Moses. C: With the coming of this law via Adam, humanity then became accountable for their sin. So this means that from Adam came some kind of law which then made already-sinning-humanity now morally accountable for their sin. This law seems to be the moral law which God wrote on our hearts. 6: To further support point 5, remember that the tree in the garden of Eden was called "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." Presumably what someone would get from eating of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." is *knowledge*. From eating of the tree, Adam, and by extension the rest of humanity, gained the knowledge required to be held accountable for sin. This perfectly fits with what Paul said in Romans 5:12-13.
But then how could God create adam and say it is good like the rest of creation, if in fact he was a sinner which isn't good? Just thinking out loud here, but think your comment is intriguing.
[1Co 15:21-22 ESV] 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive. There is no inferring anything there. It is very clear. All your points are refuted in scripture.
But both David and Paul experienced the painful dominance of indwelling sin and declared the reality of indwelling sin in their hearts in Psalm 51 and Romans7. "Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."(Psalm 51:5) In Romans 7, Paul describes his struggle with indwelling sin, which is the idea that sin is a powerful principle that resides in the heart and is always at odds with God: Romans 7:14: "For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin" oor what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do Romans 7:17: "But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me"
Genesis 4:7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”
@@Aaronservant0 Nobody believed original sin in "calvinistic way" before Augustine(source Gerald Bray), who brought many ideas to doctrined from pagan philosophies.
@@Yaas_ok123 would God not be unjust if he made us inherit the consequences of adam's sin but not his guilt? if we're not guilty why do we inherit the consequences?
And God cursed the woman and increased herr pains in childbirth… sounds imputed to me. Likewise it wasn’t just Adam’s garden that was cursed with nasties and it wasn’t just Adam who would have to survive by toil.
Adam and Eve is one of the more clearly fictional stories in the bible. Which is a huge problem for Christianity, as many of the other stories rely on this one being true.
Strange that the founders of the scientific method believed in Adam and Eve and founded science on its truth (see THE FALL OF MAN AND THE FOUNDATIONS OF SCIENCE by Prof Peter Harrison of Oxford University) only for their creation to be hijacked by secularists
My humble opinion: it's true that Adam's sin is not imputed to us in terms of guilt In Romans 5, quoting: "Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men" has been widely misunderstood in this regard. It doesn't mean we inherit the guilt as newborn babies. It rather means what the next verse claims: "For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners(...)" The condemnation of all men means that we all inherit a sinful nature because of Adam's disobedience. That's what it means "sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men" It's a "spiritual DNA" we all inherit from Adam. I think this teaching is clear here. So Dr. Craig is actually wrong on this point
This doesn't sound too farfetched even though it's the first time I heard this view. I don't believe in original sin or inherited guilt, but I always thought we did inherit some kind of sinful nature, but maybe that was just my bias. When Adam and Eve sinned, they were exiled from the Garden, losing some kind of protection and blessing from living in paradise. And because of sin we all are separated from God, because He is perfectly holy. So maybe all God had to do was remove His hand that keeps us from evil, to let sin and evil reign in the earth. Although of course, He has not removed His control, but He let man choose his own way, that often lead to death and destruction. [Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts...Romans 1:24]
He's a Pelagian Partialist Monophysite, what can we expect? Scripture primarily and also all the traditions of our fathers defy this man. Honestly he's not good even on Apologetics. He says that we can only have 99.9% certainty of Christian Truth, but Scripture says the Holy Spirit gives 100% surety.
On Sin Nature and Grace: Ephesians 2:1-6 NLT 1 Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. 2You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil-the commander of the powers in the unseen world.a He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. 3All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else. 4But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, 5that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!) 6For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus
@@Aaronservant0 That reply has nothing to do with exegesis of the verse you cited - Eph 2:3. Sin nature is not in Eph 2. Thus you are now having to quote other passages.
@@Aaronservant0 Yes, nature is used to mean many things in the Greek. The question is, what meaning the author of Ephesians chose. If you simply look at the lexicon, you will see it is exactly as I say. Why can't you just admit you exegeted Eph 2 incorrectly? I would have a higher regard for your humility.
💯 Romans 5:12-13 12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-- 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
@@marktravis5162 yes that's what I would like to know. Drunk on catholicism? 1 Corinthians 15:22 King James Bible For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
I said the following in another comment I posted here, but I quote those exact verses to support more or less what Craig suggested. Those verses seem to directly state/imply that there was sin in the world prior to Adam, that via Adam some kind of law came to all people in the world, that prior to this law from Adam no one was held accountable for their sin, and finally that with this law from Adam we are now held accountable for our sin.
Paul invented his theology on the fly. Like all religious hucksters, he said whatever worked, and even admitted to it. "To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some." 1 Corinthians 9:20-22
This universe is a cell of Zeus, you live in the Zeus universe cluster. So you inherited the personality of Zeus. If you live in the Athenaeum universe, your personality will be different.
EITHER there was an original sin that brought sin and death into the world - from the day Adam ate of the tree of knowledge … OR the Jews are right, Moses never wrote the word “sin” anywhere in chapter 3. Go and figure!
Because of the WHOLE WORLD, individuals sins are not the concern of God, as much as the whole world. The fall, is Adam and Eve, losing immortality for humanity by disobedience, not just their lives. Enter immortality by Jesus Christ. It gets complicated if there's a file, a rating, a seriousness scale for sin. Few are evil enough to deserve what Satan gets, so the unforgiven receives the price for their sin. Death by fire. Ro. 6:23. Most of humanity forgiven. Mt. 12:31 Mk. 3:28 Lk. 12:10?
This is the wisdom of the world. Dr. Craig has displayed it in the past, with his rejection of the historical Adam and Eve and belief in long ages, so this is nothing new.
What's your specific objection to what Dr. Craig says here? Also, you are mistaken in saying that Dr. Craig rejects the historical Adam and Eve. He most certainly does not. See his book In Quest of the Historical Adam, or the many articles on the subject available for free at reasonablefaith.org. - RF Admin
@@drcraigvideosisn't Craig implying therefore that creation was not very good but that selfishness predation hostility were already present in biology and were only overruled by God's grace? Isn't it also the case that THAT is at least as invisible in Genesis 1-3 as inherited sin& guilt and even less visible in Romans 5?
@@drcraigvideos Ephesians 2:3 states, "Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind".
@@terminat1 Ephesians 2:3 states, "Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind".
Don’t believe I am guilty of Adam sin. I do believe we have a sin nature.A desire to sin. Jesus was tempted so he must of had desires God did not want him to do. Jesus obey God perfectly when tempted by the devil and in the ha den he said father your will not mine.
If you think Jesus was tempted, then you must deny the Trinity. The devil could not offer God anything. He could only offer a man something which he did not possess.
@@ji8044 Jesus was God Jesus was fully human, and the Bible makes it clear. He was tempted in the desert by the Devil. If Jesus didn’t have temptation, he could’ve never saved us. Part of our salvation. Was he obey God’s law perfectly he could not have saved us unless he became human.
Absurd ideas, the physical body is not sinful, sin is from the heart, and if Christ said no one is good, then we cannot be born pure. This is just self-righteousness dressed up in intellectual clothing.
Everyone that is or has been born (other than Jesus) will sin. That does not mean that they are born having already sinned (or inheriting the blame for your ancestors sin), that is his point
it's great how these frauds can't agree on the most basic things in their cult. If there is original sin, free will is destroyed. It does take a stupid god to punish everyone for what someone else did, and even more stupid when this god supposedly says he would never do such a thing: "he word of the Lord came to me: 2 What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, ‘The parents have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge’? 3 As I live, says the Lord God, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel. 4 Know that all lives are mine; the life of the parent as well as the life of the child is mine: it is only the person who sins that shall die." - Ezekiel 18 "16 Parents shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall children be put to death for their parents; only for their own crimes may persons be put to death." Deuteronomy 24 so much for an "unchanging" god.
-If there is original sin, free will is destroyed. This is an assertion you actually have to defend. The idea that if there are constrains put on you by your circumstance then you are not free would be to say I am not free because I cannot flap my arms and fly. This is absurd. -It does take a stupid god to punish everyone for what someone else did. But this is not what is happening. Adam's actions damaged us and it is our concupiscence that renders us guilty. The only thing God did was provide a way back for us.
If an original sin nature exists, then how could free will NOT be destroyed? You may have free will to a certain extent, sure. But your sin nature will always be on top at the end of the day.
Romans 5:12 “therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned.”
Yes, the death spread to all men because all sinned
agreed.
If so then Jesus himself could not have been sinless and must have had a corrupted nature since he too was a descendant of Adam.
@@ji8044 thus the heavy emphasis on the virgin birth in the New Testament. Luke 1:35.
@@ji8044 My understanding was that sin nature was imputed from Adam to all his descendants. Not that Adam's sin(s) are our sins, but that we inherited our sin nature. Meaning that given enough time and opportunity we WILL sin because we have a nature to sin. Romans 5:12.
The though on Jesus is that he was conceived by the Holy Spirit, therefore the sin nature was not passed down to him. Which is why the virgin birth was so crucial.
To be fair, this has been argued by the Church for years.
Each person is judged according to their own sin.
Jesus lives! ♥️ and is Yahweh God 🙏🏻 Christ ✝️ and King 👑
Yes, and Original Sin is our own, he represented us, and it as though we walked in his place and did the same.
Edit: Through careful study of this passage, I've changed my mind on what I think Paul was saying. I still hold to the theology of 'through Adam came the knowledge requried for humanity to be held accountable for our sin', but I wont be using this passage from Romans to support this notion. I think any interpretation of what humanity got from Adam in relation to sin fits with this passage of Romans.
It seems to me that verses 12-14 of Romans 5 seem to have the follow flow of logic.
12: Sin and therefore death (as in the knowledge required to be held accountable for our actions and therefore separation from God) came into the world via Adam.
13: There was sin before the Mosaic Law, but there is no accountability for sin where there is no law.
14: Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses (IE there was accountability for sin after Adam and prior to Moses giving the Mosaic Law).
Verse 14 seems to be implying there was a form of law prior to Mosaic law, which shouldn't be surprising considering Paul already, back in chapter 2, spoke about a law written on the hearts of gentines who are apart from the Law of Moses.
It seems to me that any interpretation of what humanity got from Adam in relation to sin (be it guilt of his sin, sinful nature where ours wasn't prior, or the knowledge required to be held accountable for our actions) fits with this passage of Romans.
Below this is my original comment.
Inherited guilt of sin and inherited sinful nature are not taught by scripture. Something else seems to be taught, and this is what I think based on scripture.
1: Absolutely nowhere in scripture does it clearly state that we inherit GUILT of sin from Adam. You might try to interpret some verses to mean that, but no scripture directly states that.
2: Inherited guilt is DIRECTLY taught against in scripture.
Ezekiel 18:20 " The person who sins will die. A son will not suffer the punishment for the father’s guilt, nor will a father suffer the punishment for the son’s guilt; the righteousness of the righteous will be upon himself, and the wickedness of the wicked will be upon himself."
3: Similarly, nowhere in scripture does it clearly state that we inherited a sinful nature from Adam.
4: This should go without saying, but all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. So to point 5, something came to all of humanity via Adam and it relates to sin somehow, so what was it?
5: It seems to me that what came to all of humanity via Adam was the knowled required to be held accountable for sin. Here's my case.
Romans 5:12-13 "Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all mankind, because all sinned- 13 for until the Law sin was in the world, but sin is not counted against anyone when there is no law.
You probably need to re-read these verses a few times to wrap your head around what Paul is saying. What we can conclude from these verses are the following...
A: Sin was in the world prior to Adam.
It says "...for until the law sin was in the world..." IE sin was in the world even prior to the law (in this case, law can't be referring exclusively to the Mosaic law because this law came through Adam, and because of point B...
B: Humanity was not held accountable for their sin without this law.
It says "...but sin is not counted against anyone where there is no law." If you think "law" meant specifically the Mosaic law then you'd have to suggest that those not bound by the Mosaic law are blamess for their sin, which clearly isn't the case. Also, this law is inferred to have come into the world via Adam, not Moses.
C: With the coming of this law via Adam, humanity then became accountable for their sin.
So this means that from Adam came some kind of law which then made already-sinning-humanity now morally accountable for their sin. This law seems to be the moral law which God wrote on our hearts.
6: To further support point 5, remember that the tree in the garden of Eden was called "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." Presumably what someone would get from eating of "the tree of the knowledge of good and evil." is *knowledge*. From eating of the tree, Adam, and by extension the rest of humanity, gained the knowledge required to be held accountable for sin. This perfectly fits with what Paul said in Romans 5:12-13.
You are very correct, but swimming upstream here.
But then how could God create adam and say it is good like the rest of creation, if in fact he was a sinner which isn't good? Just thinking out loud here, but think your comment is intriguing.
We did inherit sin, and we will have that until we get a glorified body in heaven
@@grantjepson1735 His thinking is wrong. Intriguing but wrong.
[1Co 15:21-22 ESV] 21 For as by a man came death, by a man has come also the resurrection of the dead. 22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.
There is no inferring anything there. It is very clear. All your points are refuted in scripture.
But both David and Paul experienced the painful dominance of indwelling sin and declared the reality of indwelling sin in their hearts in Psalm 51 and Romans7.
"Behold, I was shapen in iniquity; and in sin did my mother conceive me."(Psalm 51:5)
In Romans 7, Paul describes his struggle with indwelling sin, which is the idea that sin is a powerful principle that resides in the heart and is always at odds with God:
Romans 7:14: "For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin"
oor what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do
Romans 7:17: "But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me"
Genesis 4:7 If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door. And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”
We inherit consequences of Adam's sin, not guilt. Get Adam Harwood's Christian Theology, brilliant.
No. Jeremiah 17:9, Genesis 8:21, Mark 7:21-22, to name a few.
@@Aaronservant0 Nobody believed original sin in "calvinistic way" before Augustine(source Gerald Bray), who brought many ideas to doctrined from pagan philosophies.
@@Yaas_ok123 its all over scripture.
Ephesians 2:3 is the undisputed proof
@@Aaronservant0 That verse is true because we inherit fallen nature, but after conversion we need to live according Christ's mind and example.
@@Yaas_ok123 would God not be unjust if he made us inherit the consequences of adam's sin but not his guilt? if we're not guilty why do we inherit the consequences?
and where in scripture is a mention of super added grace
Exactly. This is the reason it’s important to be clear about one’s hermeneutical approach.
Interesting!
And God cursed the woman and increased herr pains in childbirth… sounds imputed to me. Likewise it wasn’t just Adam’s garden that was cursed with nasties and it wasn’t just Adam who would have to survive by toil.
Based. Pelagians never ceased so we must continue to mortify their doctrine today.
Adam and Eve is one of the more clearly fictional stories in the bible. Which is a huge problem for Christianity, as many of the other stories rely on this one being true.
Strange that the founders of the scientific method believed in Adam and Eve and founded science on its truth (see THE FALL OF MAN AND THE FOUNDATIONS OF SCIENCE by Prof Peter Harrison of Oxford University) only for their creation to be hijacked by secularists
@@stephenglasse9756 That's entirely false of course. For instance Isaac Newton did not believe in the Trinity.
My humble opinion: it's true that Adam's sin is not imputed to us in terms of guilt
In Romans 5, quoting: "Therefore, as one trespass led to condemnation for all men" has been widely misunderstood in this regard. It doesn't mean we inherit the guilt as newborn babies. It rather means what the next verse claims:
"For as by the one man's disobedience the many were made sinners(...)"
The condemnation of all men means that we all inherit a sinful nature because of Adam's disobedience. That's what it means
"sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men"
It's a "spiritual DNA" we all inherit from Adam. I think this teaching is clear here. So Dr. Craig is actually wrong on this point
This doesn't sound too farfetched even though it's the first time I heard this view. I don't believe in original sin or inherited guilt, but I always thought we did inherit some kind of sinful nature, but maybe that was just my bias. When Adam and Eve sinned, they were exiled from the Garden, losing some kind of protection and blessing from living in paradise. And because of sin we all are separated from God, because He is perfectly holy. So maybe all God had to do was remove His hand that keeps us from evil, to let sin and evil reign in the earth. Although of course, He has not removed His control, but He let man choose his own way, that often lead to death and destruction. [Therefore God gave them over in the desires of their hearts...Romans 1:24]
If we did not inherit Adam's corrupt nature, then why can't we avoid sin?
Because without God's grace and presence we are incapable of choosing a righteous life.
@@matthewm7487 Why are we incapable of choosing a righteous life?
@@matthewm7487
Why do we sin after coming to faith?
@@Aaronservant0 I think that question can be posed regardless of what your position is on original sin.
On Sin nature.
Mark 7:21-22
Genesis 8:21
Jeremiah 17:9
Romans 3
Sin entered the world thru 1 man and 1 woman and corrupted the world. Thats scripture.
He's a Pelagian Partialist Monophysite, what can we expect? Scripture primarily and also all the traditions of our fathers defy this man.
Honestly he's not good even on Apologetics. He says that we can only have 99.9% certainty of Christian Truth, but Scripture says the Holy Spirit gives 100% surety.
David said that he was conceived in sin. So what about the rest of us? I believe none of us are able to say that we are as "great" as David was
If so then Jesus himself could not have been sinless and must have had a corrupted nature since he too was a descendant of Adam.
Surgical , as always.
Why can’t you just once give credit to EO and say that their definition of this is the best one we have?
Good apologetic gone bad.
Son, pick up the phone and 911 that they should read 12 Rules For Life
As Roman 3.14 would say, William, pick up the phone
On Sin Nature and Grace:
Ephesians 2:1-6 NLT
1 Once you were dead because of your disobedience and your many sins. 2You used to live in sin, just like the rest of the world, obeying the devil-the commander of the powers in the unseen world.a He is the spirit at work in the hearts of those who refuse to obey God. 3All of us used to live that way, following the passionate desires and inclinations of our sinful nature. By our very nature we were subject to God’s anger, just like everyone else.
4But God is so rich in mercy, and he loved us so much, 5that even though we were dead because of our sins, he gave us life when he raised Christ from the dead. (It is only by God’s grace that you have been saved!) 6For he raised us from the dead along with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms because we are united with Christ Jesus
Look at the Greek lexicon. The Greek for "nature" in Eph 2:3 is "long standing practice or habit", not "by birth".
@@343jonny the heart is wicked who can know it. -King David
@@Aaronservant0 That reply has nothing to do with exegesis of the verse you cited - Eph 2:3. Sin nature is not in Eph 2. Thus you are now having to quote other passages.
@343jonny dozens of biblical texts I have cited. Nature can be used to mean, nature and not habit. This is not a debate.
@@Aaronservant0 Yes, nature is used to mean many things in the Greek. The question is, what meaning the author of Ephesians chose. If you simply look at the lexicon, you will see it is exactly as I say. Why can't you just admit you exegeted Eph 2 incorrectly? I would have a higher regard for your humility.
💯 Romans 5:12-13
12 Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned-- 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.
I don’t know how he doesn’t see that when it’s pretty clear
@@marktravis5162See what? This verse supports the Orthodox view.
@@marktravis5162 yes that's what I would like to know. Drunk on catholicism?
1 Corinthians 15:22 King James Bible
For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
I said the following in another comment I posted here, but I quote those exact verses to support more or less what Craig suggested. Those verses seem to directly state/imply that there was sin in the world prior to Adam, that via Adam some kind of law came to all people in the world, that prior to this law from Adam no one was held accountable for their sin, and finally that with this law from Adam we are now held accountable for our sin.
Paul invented his theology on the fly. Like all religious hucksters, he said whatever worked, and even admitted to it.
"To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some." 1 Corinthians 9:20-22
This universe is a cell of Zeus, you live in the Zeus universe cluster.
So you inherited the personality of Zeus.
If you live in the Athenaeum universe, your personality will be different.
Adam broke the covenant with God aka adamic covenant and Edenic covenant.
EITHER there was an original sin that brought sin and death into the world - from the day Adam ate of the tree of knowledge …
OR the Jews are right, Moses never wrote the word “sin” anywhere in chapter 3.
Go and figure!
Because of the WHOLE WORLD, individuals sins are not the concern of God, as much as the whole world. The fall, is Adam and Eve, losing immortality for humanity by disobedience, not just their lives. Enter immortality by Jesus Christ.
It gets complicated if there's a file, a rating, a seriousness scale for sin.
Few are evil enough to deserve what Satan gets, so the unforgiven receives the price for their sin.
Death by fire. Ro. 6:23.
Most of humanity forgiven.
Mt. 12:31
Mk. 3:28
Lk. 12:10?
This is the wisdom of the world. Dr. Craig has displayed it in the past, with his rejection of the historical Adam and Eve and belief in long ages, so this is nothing new.
Yeah this is absolutely horrid. Lost nearly all respect for him, tbh.
What's your specific objection to what Dr. Craig says here? Also, you are mistaken in saying that Dr. Craig rejects the historical Adam and Eve. He most certainly does not. See his book In Quest of the Historical Adam, or the many articles on the subject available for free at reasonablefaith.org. - RF Admin
@@drcraigvideosisn't Craig implying therefore that creation was not very good but that selfishness predation hostility were already present in biology and were only overruled by God's grace?
Isn't it also the case that THAT is at least as invisible in Genesis 1-3 as inherited sin& guilt and even less visible in Romans 5?
@@drcraigvideos
Ephesians 2:3 states, "Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind".
@@terminat1
Ephesians 2:3 states, "Among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind".
Horrid take by the Dr. here.
Jeremiah 17:9
Don’t believe I am guilty of Adam sin. I do believe we have a sin nature.A desire to sin. Jesus was tempted so he must of had desires God did not want him to do. Jesus obey God perfectly when tempted by the devil and in the ha den he said father your will not mine.
If you think Jesus was tempted, then you must deny the Trinity.
The devil could not offer God anything. He could only offer a man something which he did not possess.
@@ji8044 Jesus was God Jesus was fully human, and the Bible makes it clear. He was tempted in the desert by the Devil. If Jesus didn’t have temptation, he could’ve never saved us. Part of our salvation. Was he obey God’s law perfectly he could not have saved us unless he became human.
The question is about the origin of that nature. Adam and Eve could have chosen to not sin. They chose sin instead. We inherit that nature.
Absurd ideas, the physical body is not sinful, sin is from the heart, and if Christ said no one is good, then we cannot be born pure.
This is just self-righteousness dressed up in intellectual clothing.
We are guilty because we sin my friend. Not because someone else did. Let go of your Latin Vulgate.
Everyone that is or has been born (other than Jesus) will sin. That does not mean that they are born having already sinned (or inheriting the blame for your ancestors sin), that is his point
@@masoncouldwell3115 I'm ok with that, but he goes a step farther and denies a sin nature.
it's great how these frauds can't agree on the most basic things in their cult. If there is original sin, free will is destroyed. It does take a stupid god to punish everyone for what someone else did, and even more stupid when this god supposedly says he would never do such a thing:
"he word of the Lord came to me: 2 What do you mean by repeating this proverb concerning the land of Israel, ‘The parents have eaten sour grapes, and the children’s teeth are set on edge’? 3 As I live, says the Lord God, this proverb shall no more be used by you in Israel. 4 Know that all lives are mine; the life of the parent as well as the life of the child is mine: it is only the person who sins that shall die." - Ezekiel 18
"16 Parents shall not be put to death for their children, nor shall children be put to death for their parents; only for their own crimes may persons be put to death." Deuteronomy 24
so much for an "unchanging" god.
"Some scientists are paid to produce fake studies or results, why do we even need science if it's so easy to fake results and lie? Hur Hur Hur"
-If there is original sin, free will is destroyed.
This is an assertion you actually have to defend. The idea that if there are constrains put on you by your circumstance then you are not free would be to say I am not free because I cannot flap my arms and fly. This is absurd.
-It does take a stupid god to punish everyone for what someone else did.
But this is not what is happening. Adam's actions damaged us and it is our concupiscence that renders us guilty. The only thing God did was provide a way back for us.
U r the only stupid one talking!
If an original sin nature exists, then how could free will NOT be destroyed?
You may have free will to a certain extent, sure. But your sin nature will always be on top at the end of the day.
@@mattr.1887 "free will to a certain extent" is not free will. It is inhibited, and thus not free.
He used many words and said nothing.
Just because you couldn't follow it doesn't mean he was saying nothing.
Nothing correct anyway.
Maybe you should look at the evidence he reviews on the subject in other videos instead of making amateur assertions.