Always happy to see innovation in the 3d printing space. But you need to provide some numbers. A roll of filament resting on a table is also, technically, a dryer (on a dry day) - so while I'm not doubting that the device removes some moisture, we need numbers. Numbers like: - How hygroscopic are each of the filaments? - What's the minimum moisture level the device can achieve, dependent on ambient temp, ambient moisture, filament type and feedrate? - How does it compare to your previous products? - Some example prints with nylon/TPU (same spool) with/without the gizmo to convince naysayers like myself.
Thank you for your input. We have several studies posted on the IFD-175 AP product page. They are not as comprehensive as what you suggest but that's where we hope to get more detailed feedback from our customers. Here's the link. thordsen3d.com/product/ifd-175-ap-air-power-inline-filament-dryer/
Roughly 150mm in the dry air, at even an entry level printer's slow feed rate, I really struggle to imagine it spends enough time for any real amount of moisture to migrate out from inside the filament. I would like to see some objective measurement of how much it's reducing moisture in a filament, ideally someone independent like Thomas Sanladerer / Made With Layers or Stefan Hermann / CNC Kitchen.
Consider the fact that the hot end can heat filament from room temp to 300c in a fraction of a second. Even at 200mmps with a .4 nozzle, filament remains inside the tube for 44 seconds with no retraction. That's more than enough time for heat to penetrate to the core.
@@alanthordsen214 I have no doubt at all of its effectiveness as a pre-heater for the filament, warming it through. And I can absolutely see how pre-heating could have benefits, there could be a benefit there in reducing the thermal work done in the hotend, it might make for more thorough melting, maybe that allows for higher feed rates or maybe improved layer bonding. But for moisture to leave the filament, which is the stated goal, in 45 seconds exposure to dry air? Well, I would like to see that proven (and I really do mean I want it proven, I want you to be right!). Independent testing and real numbers, which was what my comment was about, would answer that.
Preheating using the IFD would only be effective with a direct drive system. If there is a long pathway from the feeder to the hotend, the filament will have already cooled. The filament is not just exposed to dry air. It is surrounded by direct heat which penetrates quickly. The air simply pushes out any moisture released. You are correct. Independent studies are necessary and that's where customer feedback is important. Given the variety of environments, no one will get the same results that we do. For instance, we've already discovered with customer feedback that altitude can effect performance.
Nice idea 1:48 This looks like a soldering station. It would look better if the electronics were integrated into the tube itself, that would be truly inline
I made the original version with the pump actually on the dryer. It was very heavy the loud. By having the pump inside the control box and using an umbilical tube, both weight and noise are mitigated.
please.. pay attention to audio. Your music needs toned down, and the voice needs set to stereo, even if it was only recorded in mono. the diagram could use some work. I am not actually sure the diagram as it is shown, can actually do the things you claim it will do eg: dry the filament. I don't mind the box setup and inline combo - but another thing would be to have a sound reading for how loud it is - some noises can really be disruptive and they are frequently found in this field. Fans reaching 70dB for example, should actually have some form of hearing protection, not for the sake it would 'harm your ears' - but because that loud, that long use - can just cause headaches and other problems. Air pumps have been loud for decades, it's hard with current tech to make a 'silent' pump that actually can pump enough air to matter.
@alanthordsen214 petg/abs has a point of no return. I tried making a dryer/rewinder: passes through a thordson dryer twice with air movement. No matter what, it would randomly break. However, it was restored to a playable state again..in random lengths.
Correct. We switched to the yellow for a couple of reasons. 1, it can absorb much fore moisture. 2, We were informed by our CE cert firm that the blue is not acceptable for EU export. 3, it took a while to negotiate with our desiccant manufacturer to prodide 1 to 3 mm pellets. 3 to 5 mm do not fit in the tube.
Yes, there was a mistake on the export of this video in regard to the audio but we decided to leave the video up because there were already discussions in the comments and we didn't want to take those down. If you watch our other videos, it's clear stereo is within our capabilities.
Hi @packpack758, Actually there is plenty of time especially since the air push is added. Think about how fast a hot end heats filament from room temperature to 220C +. It takes a fraction of a second. Our dryer is no different. It's the TG temp of the filament that determines how much heat it can absorb before starting to stretch.
Always happy to see innovation in the 3d printing space. But you need to provide some numbers. A roll of filament resting on a table is also, technically, a dryer (on a dry day) - so while I'm not doubting that the device removes some moisture, we need numbers.
Numbers like:
- How hygroscopic are each of the filaments?
- What's the minimum moisture level the device can achieve, dependent on ambient temp, ambient moisture, filament type and feedrate?
- How does it compare to your previous products?
- Some example prints with nylon/TPU (same spool) with/without the gizmo to convince naysayers like myself.
Thank you for your input. We have several studies posted on the IFD-175 AP product page. They are not as comprehensive as what you suggest but that's where we hope to get more detailed feedback from our customers. Here's the link. thordsen3d.com/product/ifd-175-ap-air-power-inline-filament-dryer/
Roughly 150mm in the dry air, at even an entry level printer's slow feed rate, I really struggle to imagine it spends enough time for any real amount of moisture to migrate out from inside the filament. I would like to see some objective measurement of how much it's reducing moisture in a filament, ideally someone independent like Thomas Sanladerer / Made With Layers or Stefan Hermann / CNC Kitchen.
Consider the fact that the hot end can heat filament from room temp to 300c in a fraction of a second. Even at 200mmps with a .4 nozzle, filament remains inside the tube for 44 seconds with no retraction. That's more than enough time for heat to penetrate to the core.
@@alanthordsen214 I have no doubt at all of its effectiveness as a pre-heater for the filament, warming it through. And I can absolutely see how pre-heating could have benefits, there could be a benefit there in reducing the thermal work done in the hotend, it might make for more thorough melting, maybe that allows for higher feed rates or maybe improved layer bonding. But for moisture to leave the filament, which is the stated goal, in 45 seconds exposure to dry air? Well, I would like to see that proven (and I really do mean I want it proven, I want you to be right!). Independent testing and real numbers, which was what my comment was about, would answer that.
Preheating using the IFD would only be effective with a direct drive system. If there is a long pathway from the feeder to the hotend, the filament will have already cooled. The filament is not just exposed to dry air. It is surrounded by direct heat which penetrates quickly. The air simply pushes out any moisture released. You are correct. Independent studies are necessary and that's where customer feedback is important. Given the variety of environments, no one will get the same results that we do. For instance, we've already discovered with customer feedback that altitude can effect performance.
Nice idea
1:48 This looks like a soldering station. It would look better if the electronics were integrated into the tube itself, that would be truly inline
I made the original version with the pump actually on the dryer. It was very heavy the loud. By having the pump inside the control box and using an umbilical tube, both weight and noise are mitigated.
please.. pay attention to audio. Your music needs toned down, and the voice needs set to stereo, even if it was only recorded in mono.
the diagram could use some work. I am not actually sure the diagram as it is shown, can actually do the things you claim it will do eg: dry the filament.
I don't mind the box setup and inline combo - but another thing would be to have a sound reading for how loud it is - some noises can really be disruptive and they are frequently found in this field. Fans reaching 70dB for example, should actually have some form of hearing protection, not for the sake it would 'harm your ears' - but because that loud, that long use - can just cause headaches and other problems. Air pumps have been loud for decades, it's hard with current tech to make a 'silent' pump that actually can pump enough air to matter.
I can print filament so brittle it will snap with these dryers.
I have some VERY brittle PETG. It breaks no matter what or how its treated. I contemplate tossing it!!
@alanthordsen214 petg/abs has a point of no return. I tried making a dryer/rewinder: passes through a thordson dryer twice with air movement. No matter what, it would randomly break. However, it was restored to a playable state again..in random lengths.
This desiccant isn't blue, but most images I've seen are blue. Has the dangerous cobalt been replaced with a more health conscious variant?
Correct. We switched to the yellow for a couple of reasons. 1, it can absorb much fore moisture. 2, We were informed by our CE cert firm that the blue is not acceptable for EU export. 3, it took a while to negotiate with our desiccant manufacturer to prodide 1 to 3 mm pellets. 3 to 5 mm do not fit in the tube.
If stereo audio is beyond your capabilities, I don't have high hopes for your amazing 'patent pending' tech.
I apologize, Apparently the audio settings were wrong when it was rendered.
Yes, there was a mistake on the export of this video in regard to the audio but we decided to leave the video up because there were already discussions in the comments and we didn't want to take those down. If you watch our other videos, it's clear stereo is within our capabilities.
The action time is too short to be instant dry, and heated silica gel will not absorb moisture
Hi @packpack758, Actually there is plenty of time especially since the air push is added. Think about how fast a hot end heats filament from room temperature to 220C +. It takes a fraction of a second. Our dryer is no different. It's the TG temp of the filament that determines how much heat it can absorb before starting to stretch.
Two false statements. 😂
It's a 1.75mm xsection. Do you brain?
@@the_natrix9959 Who's statements are false? Mine or packpack?
@@the_natrix9959 I don't understand your comment.
This is the ONLY true filament dryer on the market. All the rest are wasted space and energy. All the comments, lol. 3D printer DIY peeps 😂