Clem has solved StarCraft 2.
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- Опубликовано: 12 сен 2024
- StarCraft 2 $1,000,000 Tournament - Clem vs herO - Terran vs Protoss - Esports World Cup 2024 Semi Finals - Clem battles herO in an action packed StarCraft 2 series filled with the best micro I've ever seen.
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StarCraft 2 Tournament 2024 - EWC 2024 - Semi Finals - Clem (Terran) vs herO (Protoss) - Best of 7
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Starcraft 2 is a Science Fiction Real Time Strategy & Tactics game by Blizzard Entertainment. Download and play free at www.starcraft2...
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Winterstarcraft, Starcraft 2 2024, SC2 2024
#Starcraft2 #SC2 #RTS
really reminded of that TF2 quote of "when we created the game, we really didn't expect we'd have to balance around somebody putting 15 years onto honing their sniper". 2024 has been a great year for starcraft but it's also crazy how good players have to be right now. watching high-level games they're near precognitive. The level of skill has kinda exploded even since 2022
started RTS with SC2 this month.
I watch all your videos.
To fall asleep. to wakeup. when I'm eating.
love it so much
one of your vids came up in my feed randomly a year or so ago and it inspired me to start playing for the first time in nearly a decade. better casting than most of the esports i watch regularly. 🍻
I had a similar experience, mentioned it to a friend who said "yeah the SC casters are on another level" like it was a fundamental fact everyone knew
I never play, only watch!
57:19 Gentlemen, I invite you to see the reasons why war leaves you traumatized, just seeing the marine watching his companion burn by the colossus, simplifies the summary of war veterans.
Serral, Raynor and Maxpax forced Clem to solve the game in order to achieve his goals. Without them he could have settled on his speed alone.
I still want to see maru vs Clem. Two tournaments, back to back
@@growtocycle6992 I was a fanboy for top Korean terrans since the Emperor. But I really find it interesting, that only Dark of team South Korea values strategy and tatics higher than mechanics. And honestly that fresh ideas of currently mainly foreiners are still keeping SC fun to watch.
@@binbadende Are you kidding??? Hero has many mechanical flaws and still dominates. Maru has also showed amazing tactics during games. You can't be good at turtling on mechanics alone.
@@kommisar. kid, there is more than black and white. Hero's success is certainly mainly tactics driven and almost fresh in the context of Korean SC2. As it's hurting me to say, Maru's playstyle became stale, almost mimicing the story of late Flash in Broodwar. Both were brilliant in their prime. But right now Maru is not prime, but still gold.
@@binbadende I just gave several examples of top-level Koreans putting a lot of effort into tactics and strategy and not just amping up their mechanics, which means your entire argument is null and void since you were claiming the exact opposite, and what's this crap about Maru? He won like 3-4 GSL's in the last year or so and smashed the record and then some. Maru and Oliviera are currently considered the most innovative Terrans.
at this point i don't see a point of building disrupters when playing against clem...
I felt that the whole time watching this.
Are you better off just getting colossus and immortals for the constant dps ?
My solution, just make the disrupter, reavers. It’ll take a few months but in the end every one will be more happy.
Except RT, RT will never be happy with SC.
@@chaddunn6334 I think Reavers would be too strong in PvZ tbh. Which, I'm all for taking Zerg off the "Almost always winning" pedestal but Reavers are REALLY good against the mass lings/banes xD
@@Elgar7022 Just make them have only 1 scarab loaded. Still better than ridiculously micro-heavy disruptors. I dunno, make disruptor shots auto follow the nearest enemy or something. Nova's time/range/speed are too low for a guided attack and the damage is too high. Seriously, even reduce it's area, but make it hit more consistently, or even as long range artillery pressure at least. Like, triple the range, but make the damage/area sizzle out.
at such match vs bio + vikings high templars would be much better choice
It’s amazing to see how much Clem has improved. He’s definitely going to be the player to beat for a long time after he took that top spot from serral.
Well he has peaked and best serral but not sure if he will maintain that form. He also will need to be equally as convincing vs terran to claim that spot from serral.
It's great to see how Clem evolved, his hyper aggression and tenacity was both his strength and weakness due to some level of impatience. I still remember that game where he blindly doom dropped int Maru's main just to get hard countered.
EWC showed us the complete Clem, still fierce, aggressive, and tenacious but very patient. Not over committing but letting the small wins work for him. Biggest take away is Clem did his homework and prepared against his rivals' core strats. Peak RTS. Peak SC2.
I caught myself criticising herO's play at one point and in that moment I instantly became the fat old man yelling at people playing sports on their tv set.
Despite only having a nominal idea of what is going on - much less actually being able to play the game - I have somehow managed to become opinionated on it. Superb.
Agreed. That's how you know you have a good sport!
Clem's marines diet bit at 27:50 "One baguette per day"...
NO CHEESE!!!
LMAOOO
Fkin love you dude , be yourself always
this guy's quotes are so out of pocket lol
"The map is dark and full of Terran" ....🤣
Bush AND Cheney references within 1 minute. You're showing your age Winter
Ive recently discovered WinterSC, the amount of laughs I've had watching him has been great, thanks for the awesome casting bro your amazing. "brendaaaaaaaaa!!!!!!"
i know nothing about this game dude but your commentary makes it interesting. Unlike most commentators in esports you don't lose your shit with 'gamer speak' and talk like a normal human being. Makes it watchable.
That Clem micro is just oppressive xD I root for toss, but just watching Clem roflstomp whoever he plays against is tantalizing.
What if Pylons were eggs, and you could crack them and make futuristic omelets?
This is the only thing I’ve read today that makes any real sense
you have better weed than everyone else thas for sure.
@markrose8440 I wish. My brain does that unaided.
At this point I'm pretty sure maxpax is the only protoss who can stand a chance vs clem in a longer series. He's just so used to disruptors not getting any damage done that he doesn't even try and plays the game very differently.
I'm a Protoss player and disruptors are clearly bad at pro levels, they should increase their speed and reduce the damage, at least they would be more valuable
Disruptors are only good in zoning out the terran, meaning that they are only good if you can get the position to siege terran.
So you’re saying no Protoss will beat him at offline tournament level….
@@NhatVuong If u can easly kill army with 3 disruptors it will be a huge problem. Not just for terran bio but for zerg too. I think make the range (aoe) of disruptor smaller can be great. Even if u slow the coldown, it will make the game too slow.
Imao, we should just remove this unit and take another unit who ask skill. Actualy, i'm pretty sur a disruptor can still solo a victory even vs clem. Like an hidden one.
The problem isn't the disruptor. The problem is the Terran has the highest speed on their blob. Disruptors are fine against hydras because they aren't on pure cocaine the whole time.
7:20
Cyclones have such a quick acceleration that they can dodge DT hits, "Today I Learned"
Yeah. Was wondering as well about that. Just two hits avoided.
A Raven with double digit probe kills? Just make a Stargate and one Phoenix and all of that would have been stopped.
That is the solution, however the solution presents its own problem. Protoss is forced to invest hundreds of resources into infrastructure that it might not have otherwise. Whereas with Terran, they will already possess the infrastructure for the raven because a starport is almost always a part of their bio-deathball blueprint. Stargate isn’t always meta for PvT
@@JourneymanJacob and there is the problem... terran almost automatically builds all three unit producing structures. Zerg and Protoss usually sit on one direction of tech. Losing double digit probes from one unit should have made getting one phoenix worth it. And having the ability to make Oracles isn't too bad if you wanted to add them to the gateway army.
But Protoss players have MAJOR tunnel vision in their strats. Thus.... no Toss grand champs for a looooong time.
Love how terran uses exactly the same army comp against absolutely everything ...
Used to be we got mech games and bio games, depending on any number of factors. Pity people apparently hate "turtling"...
Yeah. That’s why I mostly avoid watching any Terran matches. It’s just MMM with ghosts.
You just can’t lose with that comp, since it counters everything.
Yeah its a problem. Not just at top level. There is litterally no incentive to build full mech terran.
Their low tier bio units excel at any point in the game and in any circumstance.
Unlike protoss, where the high value units are critical to a successful engagement, Marines and Marauders are both the bulk AND the DPS of the terran army.
@@Stratocasterhead51 yea there is a reason terran gameplay is so stagnant
hot take: dt's are not an early game unit. They should have the same role for protoss as ghosts do for terran. They should have better stats and better active power. STill have no idea why the reaver was taken away from protoss and given to terran. Edit: disruptors are dumb. and require too much babysitting.
Dark archon should arguably be buffed massively, is another take
@@growtocycle6992dark archons aren't a think
@@smnvalex It could be. Consensus at the pro level seems to be that high templar are pretty much a waste against Terran, and making enough dark templar for a real archon force is pretty ludicrous, resource-wise. Plus the dark templar tend to die after use, as opposed to the high templar that stick around in the back line.
This is a pretty major problem when the archon was one of the units that used to be a key part of the PvT matchup. On paper, it has the splash to deal with marines, the bulk to stand up the marauders, and the anti-air to deal with medivacs and vikings. And is even big enough to not fear siege tank splash too much. But when does the Protoss manage to get enough space to actually make them? Hero had >90 probes during one of these games and was still broke just trying to keep Clem from steamrolling him...
Clem is too fast that he opens the door for the adept to strolling in.
Clem makes me want to get back into SC2 and is the only pro I want to watch. The way he plays and the way he forces his opponents play to compete with him is just amazing. Winter can barely keep up with all of the stuff happening around the map when Clem turns a losing battle into a victory somewhere else.
Best content. Your commenting and observing is on fire. Love your world play.
TLDR: Don't build disruptors against Clem.
why no templars dammit
@@user-sb3ui8ov3f Ghosts.
And paper protoss is definitely fine rn!
Clem doing his best Neo impression against the Disruptors.
Except in game 1😅
1 big shot over 4 games, I think the ratio is pretty good.@@growtocycle6992
@@growtocycle6992 That was before he started to believe.
"the map is dark and full of Terrans" really got me, cheers for the giggles
'The map is dark and full of Terran!' EPIC !!!
The map is dark... And full of Terran. The man was born for this
Appreciate the updated stats and headshot on Clem's player card
Yeah, at this point Clem has at least a +5 total over Maru on his Offense, and nearly on the same level in Defense (but not in a "scared kid" way like Maru).
At this point, I just want the disruptor changed into reaver so protos have a good sniper.
replace disruptors with reavers, and allow Immortals to shoot air.
if widow mines have auto targeting, so should disruptors. Widow mines even have permanent cloak
Watching Protoss Vs Terran just makes you feel sad & angry.
Like a puppy being maltreated.
Winter can't hide his pain of seeing a protoss losing.
8:39 "Which means for herO... The map is Dark... and full of terran" I CANNOT UNHEAR THIS
protoss harrassment on terran costs serious investment; terran harrassment on protoss requires 1 lib and 1 ghost if they go blink. there's nothing to get rid of the air and keeping 3-4 stalkers in main and nat the whole game with 0 presence on map is gross.
Widow mine harassment, Banshee, reaper, auto turret from raven, hellion. Then upgraded stim marine and marauder w/concussive shells an 1 tank for the kill...being healed by 1 or 2 medivacs that pick it all up and drop it anywhere back and forth
lol! “One baguette per day” 😂
I don't understand why Protoss players often choose Disruptors over Storms.
ghosts
The fact that Hero found any ground here is incredible, especially after watching what he did to Serral
2:00 "Daddy's home" lmao nice one
The raven came ready to plunder
15:08 did Clem forgot Liberators have air-air attack? He could have taken that colossuss since hero had no anti-air and it would be hard to kill anything with his air-ground attack.,
He needed high templars for storm😢
her0 Games are always great
Playing against any terran right now on the ladder is a fucking nightmare. Everyone thinks they're fucking clem going bio medivac and having 50 drops around the map at once while turtling at home. So fucking maddening.
That disruptor shot broke Winter, he couldn't believe his eyes.
Such a phenomenal announcer!!!
Winter you funny. "the night is dark and full of terran: hahaha
pure poetry: the DT,s could easily hack at his knees or work at the scv's :D
This is peak StarCraft 2 commentary. Thank you Winter. 😂
Nice, Winter's expanding my (non-native speaker) vocabulary, TIL: "indignant", "saunter", "scamper", "smattering" :)
didn't know herO played zerg (video description)
The best stutter step i have ever seen 28:20
Hero needs to collaborate with MaxPax to stand a chance against Clem.
When I first put this video on, and saw the matchup... all I could think was; "How could herO POSSIBLY be feeling about this match after watching Clem just *_annihilate_* Serral at the ESL??"
It likely isn't anything good. :P
It took me lot of episodes to discover there is no Jimmy
"His main army has thinned out to near extinction!"
100 army supply?
hero definitely went for his usual pvt comps instead of tailoring something for clem. disruptors arent the move vs this guy. id love to see some sort of new angle, maybe templar or something. he can clearly create favorable positions for himself, but couldnt close them out.
while the series was extremely rough for hero, i think with a new strategy we could have at least seen something much closer.
also i get triggered when like at 23:40 he throws a bunch of forcefields but neglects guardian shield :(
love to see the younger dominate. SC2 is alive
“if he could have created a kitchen sink, he would have created that too” 😂🤣🤣🤣
after watching the serral matched i just bet that clem is gonna be sweeping and skipped to the end just to be right lol
The thing that makes Hero weaker than Maxpax is his volatility and tendency to take all or nothing gambles. Players that play consistently risk free styles like Serral, Clem and Maxpax are the best for a reason.
I haven't played SC2 in years, but I still watch these vids whenever they show up in my feed. Love this guy's commentary
Clem definitely makes it seem really one sided, but honestly I think part of it is people not adapting on top of just being overwhelmed.
Like Hero at a few points really did the opposite of a good play, especially in game 3. The anti-timing where he went in before his weapon upgrade finished, basically gave force fields for Clem, and later in the match for whatever reason randomly decided just start a fight with a handful of stalkers and a bunch of zealots into multiple liberators and the bio-ball.
What I think might need to be tried, is less focus on economic damage and more focus on production damage and "reusing" zealots instead of just sacrificing them for harassment when possible.
I can't really be bothered right now to do the math, but just for an example, let's say Protoss builds 5 Void Rays and specifically used them for destroying key structures. They do pretty insane DPS to armored, which all buildings are, and I'd assume 5 Void Rays with prismatic active could melt say a barracks, an engineer bay, etc, well before a response comes up.
Basically instead of just trading into the super efficient Terran army, or throwing away like 1000 minerals every minute in Zealots for workers that are just gonna be replaced by mules, invest it into cutting off the production at the root. It's also not as though Void Rays are useless themselves, they can be used similarly to a Phoenix and get harassment done, pick off reinforcements, etc. The problem is they're not great in the main army unless it's a significant number advantage.
Long story short, I really think that as the game gets closer and closer to "solved" the wheel needs to be reinvented more, and different strategies need to be created to create new problems to solve. In this case, changing the focus of harassment from workers to production. Rather than having say 20 supply in Zealots that're gonna probably die in a matter of moments, trying say 5 Void Rays who will cost slightly more upfront, but in theory last way longer and be able to do more than just kill workers.
You put that base back on the shelf Hero. We have base at home.
watching terran these days is whats the word
Hero is the type of player that wont admit defeat until theres like 100 army diffrence
turtling till late game then boom
Disrupter shots should not be outran by un-stimmed units.
Storm radius needs to be increased, and do more damage with each tic.
Sentries need the upgrade to increase attack speed while sieged.
Thank You
Om nom nom
Insane match.
Wait, how does the Zealots scream when dying when they got no mouth?
Someone crammed a baneling up an adept and it created the disruptor. I will not be convinced otherwise.
God only knows where you cram things up an adept...
Does anyone find clems static D a bit random?
Is it random or do you think he gets it from watching his opponents replays and learning their path patterns?
Winter is the best caster after Tastosis.
Clem the prodigal son of Byun 🙏🏼💯
Byun was never this good
57:05 He dove little too deep and little too greedily. You know what he awoke in the darkness of Khazad-dum...shadow and flame. Drums...drums in the deep. Clem is coming.
I watched this live and was rooting for herO. I was so sad. Stayed up so late for such disappointment. I dont think we'll ever have a protoss champ
They just need to finally balance the game and not do stupid things like moving disruptors to 4 supply from 3 and lowering their radius when toss was already underpowered to start with. Balance council is a joke.
@@jayesspee4870 I doubt that would have helped. Protoss needs a way bigger buff - give them a weakened reaver, maybe, or do something with archons.
Does anyone even remember the archon, at this point? It used to one of absolute most important parts of the PvT matchup. On paper, it has the splash to deal with marines, the bulk to stand up the marauders before ghosts come out, and the anti-air to deal with medivacs and vikings. And is even big enough to not fear siege tank splash too much.
But when does the Protoss manage to get enough space to actually make them? Hero had >90 probes during one of these games and was still broke just trying to keep Clem from steamrolling him...
925 likes on this cast (8/26/24 3:00 pm Central)
I love it, Thanks jimmy
18:00 clem who seems to win win before minute 5
Clem was literally unstoppable at this tournament. He could not be denied.
Let’s not turn this into a balance whine, he is just actually that freaking good.
This.
Stutter-stepping an “A move” death ball for a million dollars….. definitely nothing to see here. Definitely balanced folks.
@@JourneymanJacob well hey better than catching a ball for 136 million a year. Definitely a balanced world around here.
Yeah, because having the best efficiency while also having a cheat for gathering resources which also provides a free bonus on army supply while having the strongest units in the game which are ALL ranged that also provides a massive advantage in fights because they can be microed more is good balance...
Let's not forget that they have a counter to everything in late game while it is easier to use, having to force the opponent to play better in order to compete on the same level.
edit: Oh, I forgot the literal maphack that can not be blocked or denied in any way, and the 3 braindead units that with only a few of them you can stop entire armies from attacking your bases while requiring 0 micro which allows you to focus on attacking them instead...
@@OnigoroshiZero mostly agree with what you’ve said here. However your statement about “zero micro” will totally turn reasonable people against you. The Terran’s triple M composition requires micro, just not as much as the other races
Have Disrupters ever been used to good effect? Other than maybe a lucky hit because someone was caught off guard, it just seems like a unit designed to suck away resources.
Luck hit and player caught off guard. Most of the time if they hit the target they get the targeted down too since they don't move.
Thank you for this
what i dont understand is why they just don't go templars to os dropships ? and immortals for tanks, it's just so simple to me. He already has crepuscular', just go for storm and archons.
“Daddy’s home” ohhh fuck 🤣
"Streets ahead" made me go to your page and like the video before this one too! Well done sir! Thank you for making and sharing your videos with us! WinterStarcraft is definitely streets ahead!!!
Nope not when you max xp they'll just spam tanks with marines and marauders and tell you to get out of here then free units and faster process speed they'll wait on you.
CLEM MAH BOIIIIIII
Winter's got bars 😂
I have never seen Hero suck so hard!
A Dick Cheney reference nice
less one-side than i remember
Those clem vs maxpax series has turned to be really beneficial for Clem..
And thay keep making disrupters
With respect, they don't have many other options. HT's are really vulnerable and require a lot of attention, while being inconsistent with their DPS. Colossus are extremely vulnerable, and expensive.
Protoss need to pick one of those three, and all of them have downsides. Disruptors just work out to be the least difficult to defend.
@@cousinpatsey2471 Archons? That's splash. Used to be a key element of the matchup, even.
Now, granted, I have no clue where Hero would have gotten the time or money to make them... but still.
what is the music at 6:30 winter always plays it and it's beautiful and i dont know what it is
Is this back to back sweeps against some of the worlds best players for Clem? Is Clem still peaking?
im always rooting for clems opponents because i gravitate towards the underdogs. anyone else?
why the heck is a projectile considered part of your army? Purification Nova should be different
Because you can controle it
i loved the tourney and will give my like but waiting for the replays of this tourney to dry up