I know the standard G-2 is kind of a rarity in WT for whatever reason, but would be interested to see how much the gap would be narrowed without the Trop's extra drag and weight.
I was pretty surprised, flown both quite a lot and the G2 always felt better for some reason, I think it might have to do with what enemies you tend to face with each aircraft.
Yeah G2 faces less maneuverable aircraft on average than the F4, so you might even have the impression that the G2 turns better relative to its enemies at times.
Well... I've always see the F-4 as the more nimble one and the G-2/trop as the gun platform, and with the state of high tier german props this is really useful info...
@@oaoaoao.75 oh god don't. The props are amazing but once your team runs out of tickets you can't do shit to ground units because of bad armament (unless you're an attacker), things get really funny with 6.7- 8.3 jets (skip the first MiG9 and get the mig9L and do the same with the MiG15 and 15Bis) but past the first supersonic you will suffer a lot, because people stopped using the mig21 bis in exchange of the 23M which is dog water. Be careful with the F8U while you're in any MiG jet, it might be unable to pull 6G+ at mach speed but it fights better than you at low speed, so maim them pulling 15Gs
@@UUUU-dn9wz Just checked the FM files, F4 has more aerodynamic wings and fuselage compared to non trop G2. G2 power advantage is not enough it looks like.
the engine power of the G-2 is especially helpful when you use MEC and keep your radiators perfectly open (or really perfectly closed, or as closed as you can without overheating)
oh, and G2 overheats like crazy, and radiators cause a lot of drag. G55 can MEC with 75% pp and 10% rads with no disadvatages, so in practise G55 is faster.
@@Alpakinator I keep my pp at 90% and fluctuate my rads dynamically, but generally keep them at 25-35% range so as to forget about them. Is 75% pp any better?
@@asiftalpur3758 in the G55S set both rads to 40% and prop pitch to 90% you can WEP non stop for the entire fuel load. Changing mec settings constantly will distract you from dogfighting and positioning and from 20% to 40% rads you're only gaining a few kph, G55S will still be slow as shit. 75% prop pitch is way too low, will have a serious loss of performance while climbing to alt.
J2m2 should be in there aswell, basically an f4 on steroids and will absolutely bully every plane in that br in a 1v1 even without the guaranteed massive energy advantage you’ll have before the first engagement. You re not that fast, but you can out run almost anything and even catch much faster planes if you use your climb rate and god tier acceleration well
... I'm not sure I would put the P-51C in with the rest of those. Flight performance it feels... okay AT BEST, but pair that up with its pretty middling armament, and ehhh...
This is actually surprising! I've always preferred the G-2 for some reason. With rads slightly open, I always felt like the G-2 gave me less thermal problems than the F-4. But it could just be confirmation bias.
Nice video as always! The G2/trop has also the problem of low thrust at low speed of later 109s that the F4 has in a much smaller extent. Imho the extra drag created by the air filter is exaggerated in this game tough. The difference between the standard G2 and the G2/trop is quite noticeable even without testing, only with a really minimal drag increase. Both the F4 and the G2 trop should be 4.3 imho. Anyway the yak9U is king of the 4.3-4.0 bracket, I don’t mind some under tiered 109s (trying) to face that thing
I’m surprised about the climb rate! Must’ve been some kind of placebo effect after reading the G-2’s stat card which has a higher number. Funnily enough, IRL the F-4 could also mount the 20mm gunpods and Gaijin just decides that it couldn’t. But hey I’d take a lower BR for lack of pods any day. Also I understood that sand reference XD
I really thought the G2/Trop had the climb rate advantage, but maybe I was doing something wrong when I was playing the F4. Thanks for the video, I really want to see some more of these with the P51H compared to the F2G and the other top tier props.
I have always wondered about this! Always debating on which one to fly. Thank you so much! I always thought the g2 was better. can you maybe compare the differences between the p-39s?
G2 Trop should sit at 4.0 then. But it sits at 4.3 because gunpods, which is funny, since 1 MG151 is absolutely enough to wreck anything around 4.0, and furthermore, what counts the most is the ability to get guns on target, all the gunpods in the world won't help if the enemy escapes you succesfully and it's noticeably harder to escape Bf 109 without gunpods.
@@AdamTheEnginerd With Yak-3 at 4.0, Yak-9U at 4.3 and XP-50 at 3.7 (I guess there are more examples out there) and Gaijin doing nothing about it, there is no such thing is "BR increase for Bf 109" in my vocabulary ;)
I used to hate the G2/trop and preferred the F-4, however now the G2 trop is my 2nd most played aircraft of all time and most played German aircraft. It just seems to perform so much better at BnZ maneuvers, it does feel heavier, but I feel it holds energy better too, and energy trapping/vertical lööping in the G2 just feels nicer.
I never though that the damn filter could cost the G2 that much XD, remind me of how the *bulge* on the G6 / 14 suffer its maximum attainable speed quietly. I never bothered to test it out but im always presumed the different in engine power will compensated for slight increase in weight of the G2 and make the G2 more superior than the F4, but now because of this vid I felt like I'm been playing the wrong aircraft for so long whenever I felt the desire to bully newbie at lower BR XD. Thanks for the vid Adam
again it's not. F4 is 5kph faster at the deck vs non trop G2 and it keeps that slight advantage up to 6k. Unless G2 in reference test flight that i tested isn't actually spaded.
@@AdamTheEnginerd F4 has better wing and fuselage drag coefficients, I checked the FM files. Did a quick fact check, and historically F4 was indeed faster than a G2.
@@Alpakinator That's quite interesting, there's only a bit more drag on the G2, but that's more important than the extra engine power at low altitude. Thank you.
IRL, Fritz is the choice for those whose preference is low/medium speed circling knife fight at medium to low altitude, the catch Fritz doesn't packed much firepower.. Gustav for those whose preference is high altitude boom and zoom tactic with heavier punches...
@@AdamTheEnginerd It's actually not 😅. Even if it says 696kmh on the card, it is slightly slower at all altitudes than the g-2/trop. I really don't know what Gaijin is doing 😂
I would say the Fw 190 A-1, the three A-5s are the only good ones for their BR. I like the F-8 but it's heavier than the A-5s I think. The D-13 is good too but 5.3 aircrafts tend to always fight in 5.7 or 6.0 matches and get dunked.
As expected. Flying both in IL2 brought me to the same conclusion, despite some differences in FM implementation. The F4 is, IMO, the definitive 109, and can hold its own better against likely adversaries than any other 109. I do like flying the K4, the extra power is nice but it isn’t quite as competitive against other 4.7-6.7 planes as the F4 is against its 3.0-5.0 enemies in my flawed experience.
Great video. Im not a bf 109 player, i like FW 190s more. But since i have all bf 109s unloked, sometimes i like to bring them out. Problem is i dont know mutch about them :) Maybe a video about g10 vs g14 vs k4?
Are you sure that the torque is switched off in RB? I have experimented with full-real controls in RB, and I recall that during takeoff I had to compensate with the rudder in order to keep the plane going in a straight line because it wanted to steer left as in SB. I also recall that during lower velocity flight, when I set my plane into a straight flight, it started to roll counterclockwise by itself, and I had to manually compensate for it or trim. Both phenomena are caused by torque. In RB I think, the mouse aim + instructor might be the culprit of the equalization of the roll rates clockwise and counterclockwise.
Hey can you make a video on the impact of air brake on turn ! And can you do guide for bigger plane like the sm.91 plz I love your content keep up the good content and have fun !
I just started getting into planes to shoot down CAS and been having a lot of fun. Running 6.0 tanks but using G2-Trop for dogfighter, booming and zooming. Would F-4 be better considering I'm using it ground realistic and the BR would be 6.0 regardless?
I'd say they are close enough to be basically equal in overheating. But yeah trop versions don't seem to have improved thermals, perhaps counterintuitively.
@@AdamTheEnginerdtesting with closed radiators is unrealistic. with open radiators the G-2 definitely heats up slower than the F-4. On some maps the G-2 can go the entire match, including slow climbs, while WEPing without overheating. The F-4 overheats fully even on colder maps with full rads. Idk how much the radiators affect performance though, so it may not be worth it for the extra WEP time.
Climb rate also gives acceleration, there's no need for 2 different graphs. For energy retention, F4 turns better and has less drag, so it would win that as well.
Can you showcase how to effectively use the laminar flow wings of the p-51s in battle? Like, examples of how you use high speed handling to reverse enemies in a dive or deliberately trap enemies into a high speed fight and use their poor high speed handling against them. There's nothing like that on RUclips and most people don't even know that about P51s and use the WS keys to turn (big no no as it breaks the air flow and causes immense drag and makes you lose precious speed with an already sub-par acceleration). You explained the laminar flow already but... Please show us how it's done in a real battle!
Laminar flow doesn't affect high speed handling, it just means your wing drag is lower so you'll go faster. And in reality it's unlikely that the P51 had significant amounts of laminar flow.
@@AdamTheEnginerd All of the P51s at high speeds seem to cut the air in a way that makes it feel like you're literally a knife at high speed. Even the hispano mustang. At least when you're using the mouse controls. You wouldn't be able to tell if you're using only pitch and yaw axis.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Would be cool if you could develop a technique where you exploited that in a video. Is it doable? I am sure it would be satisfying for viewesr and pilots alike to witness a high speed maneuver reversal or trap that only works with P51s, like every plane has its unique speciality, and using that to its maximum potential. Ya feel me? 🤓
Buddy, I see you addressed it a bit in the comments, but did you also do a comparison with the f-4 trop considering it is the g-2 trop you tested? That and or include the non trop variants of the G-2? Most of us if we really care about the 109 as much as each other do, we most likely bought the Romanian G-2 if seasoned players or the Italian/Hungarian G-2 for it's newer players. Also I wonder if the acceleration is the same for both? 100kg weight 300 hp difference, seems like a wash, albeit F4 should still have a turning advantage.
G2 is definitely better than F4, it's the G2Trop that is kinda slow. Best bet to compare performance is to compare ratios, so how much weight % increase vs how much power increase. Seems like 300 HP is more than worth 100kg.
Nice video mate! I would have sworn the G2/trop is better, but guess the numbers don't lie. Anyway, how did you get those stats on screen at the overheating test? They seem useful.
If they didn't want to lose their aces in silly incidents like those perhaps they should've used ejection seats a few years sooner. The idea was old and the technology was advanced enough, but they didn't bother until late WW2.
@@ericfunk5838 They had ejection seats on the He162 which is small and light. Of course they did it because they had to since the engine blocked the pilot's escape route. You are thinking about those massive jet seats, but they don't have to be that big, smaller ones are less safe, but I'll take that over being injured and having to jump out.
Pilots need additional training to use ejection seats, especially early ones. The pilots already in combat probably would not have wanted to rely on an ejection seat that can be damaged in battle as well.
Yo Adam, I really love the German fighters at 5.0 BR. But since this ju288c spam this once wonderful BR got ruined. I get into games with 3 fighters and 4 bombers against 7 fighters, and I always get outnumbered. Is there any solution, other than just quitting this BR? Or any chance that this insanity stops?
That's what the Allies had to deal with for 5 years. Basically you do your best to carry, and you should know ahead of time from your team's bomber count that you will be outnumbered.
G2/Trop at 100% rads stays in orange temperatures for the length of the test map, so I did both at 50% rads instead. F4 overheats in 4:29 and the G2/Trop overheats in 5:22. F4 indeed overheats before the G2/Trop by about 10-15%.
I have to question the relevance of the overheat test in this video. With all the radiators closed, isn't it more of a test of the engines' heat production and tolerance while removing the radiator performance from the equation? I'd think that if you could only do one test, it would be better to have the radiators slightly open since the engines are probably similar, being from the same faction and maker, so radiator performance is at least a variable.
Yeah you do have a point. Both aircraft overheat on 100% rads, so we do know that they should be comparable in the thermal department. Perhaps a test at 50% rads would have been ideal, but I'd predict that they would give a similar overheating time.
How prudent or viable would it be to take an F4 into 5.3 ground RB? My line of thinking is that it should be somewhat competitive not for it's speed but it's turning by comparison to heavier american opponents
have you tested how the G-2 compares? Sadly it only exists as a premium. IIRC it is slightly better than the trop variant, it was one of the first planes in the game that actually had been modified to be actually different from the /trop variant (e.g. bf109 F-4 and F-4/trop originally had identicle performance)
plz adam i need help with the g56, i saw the vid that u did but now its 6.3 and there are more threats... plz i need help, my sl are running out!! btw i like the g2 for some reason...
@@AdamTheEnginerd if you talk about stats in game (regardless the reals or the ones the cards show) they usually call you "Enerd" which is a shortening for Enginerd. However knowing how your plane might outperform the enemy in some concrete way is crucial for critical situations.
@@kingghidorah8106 Oh I see. Yeah every decent player knows that understanding aircraft strengths and weaknesses is important in order to succeed in battle.
Is the difference between F4 and F4/trop as well as G2 and G2/trop modelled in the game? If so, F4/trop vs G2/trop and F4 vs G2 would be apples to apples comparison IMO.
@@avnishyadav1492 firepower is absolutely an important factor in a plane's viability, there are plenty of situations where you would want the 20 mm gunpods
kinda expectad that conclusion, F series are the only 109s that can be troublesome for me to fight, but the G and K series are way more easy to fight against
I don't think there's a significant difference. If you're talking from personal experience, it could be that since the G2/Trop has more trouble and takes longer to get at high speed, it looks like high speed handling is better.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Hm ok. It's not really from personal experience I just thought I heard from somewhere that the G variants had upgraded controls from the F
Hey adam I have a video idea! I was wondering could you explain how afterburner on jet engine works? And why some jet engine just can't create afterburner?
Made a short video about afterburners here: ruclips.net/video/-4wa1JCaSnc/видео.html&ab_channel=AdamTheEnginerd To answer your 2nd question though, to afterburn you need an extra duct with fuel injectors after the turbine exhaust, that's all. So it adds length and weight to the engine, which could make it harder to fit in an aircraft. Furthermore, the duct increases the losses and decreases the thrust slightly when the engine is not afterburning, so the afterburning capability is not always good.
Can't really speak in terms of thrust gain, since that depends on the speed. But the power gain isn't too big, and it comes with more weight too which partially counterbalances it. But the main issue is the filter on the G2/Trop which adds drag.
hey adamm we had a duel today, you were flying a Re 2005 and i was on the FW D9 i can't talk in WT, and you said GG, i don't want to look or sound disrespectful so GG, i can't believe i beat you once i realized it was you i stoped my intentions and then saw a chance when you tried to stall me out, nice fight man
Not surprising. The trop filter does have a negative effect on performance. What i'd like to see is a comparison between G2 and G2/Trop and the G6 and G6''Trop'' (finnish prem) to see how much performance one looses with the ''tropical'' filter on.
@@AdamTheEnginerd yeh that's fair tho does do the ''trop'' variants loose out on anything else? (and does the filter on the G6 actually effect it in any way at all).
Shame that there is no G4 in WT. Furthermore, they should make a folder with G2/trop, G2, G4 and an early G6 in third era and already existing G6/Late in a fourth era.
Thanks! Since F4 is faster and turns better while having the same climb, its MER should be better than the G2/Trop's. As for compression someone else said they might be different, I'd have to test or check the files for that.
This has made me realise that the stat cards in game are useless
Definitely. Only thing decent about them is top speed.
Just now? I been telling people this for years. :/ literally years.
Dacă era G2-ul român, ar fi învins
@@AdamTheEnginerd nah the stat card says that the 109g2 has a higher top speed actually
The graphs have spoken
Praise the graphs!
@@AdamTheEnginerd \[T]/
I know the standard G-2 is kind of a rarity in WT for whatever reason, but would be interested to see how much the gap would be narrowed without the Trop's extra drag and weight.
this ^
The Normal G2 is bettee
G2 without the trop is faster by about 15 km/h than the G2/Trop, and would be faster than the F4 since it has more power and the same drag.
because the trop variant more heavy?
So F4 vs F4/trop now?
0:38 another Star Wars quote xD Nice
Haha of course!
@@AdamTheEnginerd I guess you don't like sand ;)
I was pretty surprised, flown both quite a lot and the G2 always felt better for some reason, I think it might have to do with what enemies you tend to face with each aircraft.
Yeah G2 faces less maneuverable aircraft on average than the F4, so you might even have the impression that the G2 turns better relative to its enemies at times.
Well... I've always see the F-4 as the more nimble one and the G-2/trop as the gun platform, and with the state of high tier german props this is really useful info...
Basically.
@@AdamTheEnginerd state of the higher tier germans: JU288C
@@ercanyesiltas That plane is the reason I switched my focus to the soviet tree
@@oaoaoao.75 oh god don't. The props are amazing but once your team runs out of tickets you can't do shit to ground units because of bad armament (unless you're an attacker), things get really funny with 6.7- 8.3 jets (skip the first MiG9 and get the mig9L and do the same with the MiG15 and 15Bis) but past the first supersonic you will suffer a lot, because people stopped using the mig21 bis in exchange of the 23M which is dog water. Be careful with the F8U while you're in any MiG jet, it might be unable to pull 6G+ at mach speed but it fights better than you at low speed, so maim them pulling 15Gs
@@kingghidorah8106 I just stick with the Yak-3 and it's variants since most pilots will try to out-turn it
I’m really surprised about the f4 being faster, I always just assumed the g2 was faster because of the extra engine power
The g2/trop has extra drag that the normal g2 has not
Yeah the premium G2 is faster than the G2/Trop and the F4.
non Trop G2 is still slower than F4 below 6k. G2 has 545 kph top speed at the deck vs F4 550kph
@@Alpakinator there’s no way, like Adam said they have the same drag but the G2 has more power
@@UUUU-dn9wz Just checked the FM files, F4 has more aerodynamic wings and fuselage compared to non trop G2. G2 power advantage is not enough it looks like.
the engine power of the G-2 is especially helpful when you use MEC and keep your radiators perfectly open (or really perfectly closed, or as closed as you can without overheating)
I'm really surprised by how slow G2 is. Barely faster than G55. Another example of why statcards should be ignored.
oh, and G2 overheats like crazy, and radiators cause a lot of drag. G55 can MEC with 75% pp and 10% rads with no disadvatages, so in practise G55 is faster.
@@Alpakinator I keep my pp at 90% and fluctuate my rads dynamically, but generally keep them at 25-35% range so as to forget about them. Is 75% pp any better?
G2 does better “0-60” where the 109 dominates. Spitfire is only real threat there
Yeah it's almost slow for the BR.
@@asiftalpur3758 in the G55S set both rads to 40% and prop pitch to 90% you can WEP non stop for the entire fuel load. Changing mec settings constantly will distract you from dogfighting and positioning and from 20% to 40% rads you're only gaining a few kph, G55S will still be slow as shit. 75% prop pitch is way too low, will have a serious loss of performance while climbing to alt.
It would be nice to see a 4.3 battle of the graphs. Perhaps Yak-9U vs P-38J-15 vs Typhoon Mk Ib/l vs Bf 109G-2/trop?
I concur, for some reason it's the BR I play most games on
Isn't the Yak-9U 5.0?
@ that's the yak 3u
@@johnsanvictores6639 BR between RB and SB varies so wildly lol
The Yak9U will murder all of the above
I never clicked on a video so fast in my life!! Thank God for Adam videos
Thanks for the support!
I'd be curious to see how they stack up vs other really good 4.0-4.3 props: Yak-9U/3, P-51C-10, spitfire mk 9, etc.
Battle of the graphs perhaps?
J2m2 should be in there aswell, basically an f4 on steroids and will absolutely bully every plane in that br in a 1v1 even without the guaranteed massive energy advantage you’ll have before the first engagement.
You re not that fast, but you can out run almost anything and even catch much faster planes if you use your climb rate and god tier acceleration well
... I'm not sure I would put the P-51C in with the rest of those. Flight performance it feels... okay AT BEST, but pair that up with its pretty middling armament, and ehhh...
@@TheAmazingCowpig it s got the performance of the d30 at 4.0 bro
@@TheAmazingCowpig yeah IDK what you mean. The P-51C slaps.
Adam these technical videos are the absolute best, and there is no other content like this on WT
Thank you a lot for this video Adam! This was one big topic I was wondering about and this was the perfect video for it.
Excellent as always...I am now surrounded by a glowing field of Usefulness...
Haha that's great!
@@AdamTheEnginerd Lolz, that's how I feel!!
This is actually surprising!
I've always preferred the G-2 for some reason. With rads slightly open, I always felt like the G-2 gave me less thermal problems than the F-4. But it could just be confirmation bias.
Both seem evenly notorious for overheating to me.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Must be confirmation bias...
G2 with 100 rads feels don't give significant drag, as it also slows the speed gain on dives..
it's already slow on straight line to begin with.
Nice video as always! The
G2/trop has also the problem of low thrust at low speed of later 109s that the F4 has in a much smaller extent.
Imho the extra drag created by the air filter is exaggerated in this game tough. The difference between the standard G2 and the G2/trop is quite noticeable even without testing, only with a really minimal drag increase. Both the F4 and the G2 trop should be 4.3 imho.
Anyway the yak9U is king of the 4.3-4.0 bracket, I don’t mind some under tiered 109s (trying) to face that thing
Yeah the air filter drag seems excessive to me, but if they have the data for both planes, there's not much we can say.
Yeah Yak9U is really strong.
very interesting! thanks for the video Adam! keep up the great work!
Thanks, will do!
can you do a comparison of the Ki-83, Hornet, and the F7F?
I would like to see a broad comparison of all the competitive heavy fighters. They generally don't get as much focus as single props.
Hornet would by far be top if it had the historical ~2000hp Merlin 131's instead of the ~1500 they get ingame :/
Add the p38k in that list
@@boranakin710 it always had historical engine performance, but in red skies it got even better engine performance with 150 octane fuel
Maybe!
Thanks for the comparison of graphs :D
No problem!
I’m surprised about the climb rate! Must’ve been some kind of placebo effect after reading the G-2’s stat card which has a higher number. Funnily enough, IRL the F-4 could also mount the 20mm gunpods and Gaijin just decides that it couldn’t. But hey I’d take a lower BR for lack of pods any day.
Also I understood that sand reference XD
Yeah don't trust the stat cards!
Good gooood ;).
Great video, thank you for making it !
My pleasure!
I really thought the G2/Trop had the climb rate advantage, but maybe I was doing something wrong when I was playing the F4. Thanks for the video, I really want to see some more of these with the P51H compared to the F2G and the other top tier props.
I'll consider it!
@@AdamTheEnginerd Thank you! And take your time of course
I have always wondered about this! Always debating on which one to fly. Thank you so much! I always thought the g2 was better. can you maybe compare the differences between the p-39s?
My pleasure!
P39s are pretty similar to each other as far as I know.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Well now there's the french p39 too
Soviet N-0 is the best, followed by US N-0. Not sure about the rest.
@@temptemp8190 I was wondering about the french one
Good educational videos like always!
Thanks again!
plz bring more video like this,, very informative and different than rest👍👍
Thank you, I will!
Favourite "props" thanks for the video :) 👍
Good choice!
Loved the low key star wars joke
Good hunting Cya in the skies :)
G2 Trop should sit at 4.0 then. But it sits at 4.3 because gunpods, which is funny, since 1 MG151 is absolutely enough to wreck anything around 4.0, and furthermore, what counts the most is the ability to get guns on target, all the gunpods in the world won't help if the enemy escapes you succesfully and it's noticeably harder to escape Bf 109 without gunpods.
Or F4 could go 4.3 yeah.
@@AdamTheEnginerd With Yak-3 at 4.0, Yak-9U at 4.3 and XP-50 at 3.7 (I guess there are more examples out there) and Gaijin doing nothing about it, there is no such thing is "BR increase for Bf 109" in my vocabulary ;)
I used to hate the G2/trop and preferred the F-4, however now the G2 trop is my 2nd most played aircraft of all time and most played German aircraft. It just seems to perform so much better at BnZ maneuvers, it does feel heavier, but I feel it holds energy better too, and energy trapping/vertical lööping in the G2 just feels nicer.
That's interesting. F4 should do those things better though, but it's close.
I never though that the damn filter could cost the G2 that much XD, remind me of how the *bulge* on the G6 / 14 suffer its maximum attainable speed quietly. I never bothered to test it out but im always presumed the different in engine power will compensated for slight increase in weight of the G2 and make the G2 more superior than the F4, but now because of this vid I felt like I'm been playing the wrong aircraft for so long whenever I felt the desire to bully newbie at lower BR XD. Thanks for the vid Adam
Yeah G2 without trop is faster than F4!
again it's not. F4 is 5kph faster at the deck vs non trop G2 and it keeps that slight advantage up to 6k.
Unless G2 in reference test flight that i tested isn't actually spaded.
@@Alpakinator Wait really? They have the same drag coefficients and the G2 has a bit more power.
@@AdamTheEnginerd F4 has better wing and fuselage drag coefficients, I checked the FM files. Did a quick fact check, and historically F4 was indeed faster than a G2.
@@Alpakinator That's quite interesting, there's only a bit more drag on the G2, but that's more important than the extra engine power at low altitude. Thank you.
IRL, Fritz is the choice for those whose preference is low/medium speed circling knife fight at medium to low altitude, the catch Fritz doesn't packed much firepower.. Gustav for those whose preference is high altitude boom and zoom tactic with heavier punches...
Firepower without gunpods is the same though, and the majority don't load gunpods it seems.
These were very suprising to me! I always thought the G series was better at speed, but I guess that was wrong! thank you, Adam.
Starting at G6 in the tech tree it's faster than the F4. And the premium non-trop G2 is faster than the F4.
@@AdamTheEnginerd It's actually not 😅. Even if it says 696kmh on the card, it is slightly slower at all altitudes than the g-2/trop. I really don't know what Gaijin is doing 😂
i have a masochistic tendency of taking the 109 F-4 into 7.3 ground RB to kill unsuspecting jets
Eh good luck.
I like at the end, the music is slightly misaligned and it sounds more like a trap song.
Hahaha it was unintended, but it sounds good!
personally I prefer the G2, just feels nicer and looks better ))
They're literally the same plane, except the G2 turns worse so how exactly does it feel nicer?
Um, same here, although Ivs used it a whole lot more so Im used to it
ur bad and gay
@@deadinside1921 wtf toxic
Especially the G2 Italian version since it is the regular G2, not the trop version.
You know its a good war thunder video if it came from Adam.
Ps:
I watched this yesterday but I forgot to comment about this vid, sorry Adam.
Haha thanks for the dedication dude!
Adam, I'm just curious, what is your favorite Fw 190? Ta's dont count.
For me, I think the F8
@@vuthynoun2742 my most played but I'm really liking the d9
A5 with just two cannons for me
D13. I have every 190 model but the D13 is special to me
I would say the Fw 190 A-1, the three A-5s are the only good ones for their BR.
I like the F-8 but it's heavier than the A-5s I think. The D-13 is good too but 5.3 aircrafts tend to always fight in 5.7 or 6.0 matches and get dunked.
Thank Gaijin I got a talisman with the f4
Gaijin = god?
As expected. Flying both in IL2 brought me to the same conclusion, despite some differences in FM implementation. The F4 is, IMO, the definitive 109, and can hold its own better against likely adversaries than any other 109. I do like flying the K4, the extra power is nice but it isn’t quite as competitive against other 4.7-6.7 planes as the F4 is against its 3.0-5.0 enemies in my flawed experience.
You're still the best dude! Come back! We'll buy more mugs!
Great video. Im not a bf 109 player, i like FW 190s more. But since i have all bf 109s unloked, sometimes i like to bring them out. Problem is i dont know mutch about them :)
Maybe a video about g10 vs g14 vs k4?
I did! ruclips.net/video/J_QuhR3MAOM/видео.html&ab_channel=AdamTheEnginerd
@@AdamTheEnginerd Awsome! Im surpirsed i havent seen it already. Thanks :D
Are you sure that the torque is switched off in RB? I have experimented with full-real controls in RB, and I recall that during takeoff I had to compensate with the rudder in order to keep the plane going in a straight line because it wanted to steer left as in SB. I also recall that during lower velocity flight, when I set my plane into a straight flight, it started to roll counterclockwise by itself, and I had to manually compensate for it or trim. Both phenomena are caused by torque.
In RB I think, the mouse aim + instructor might be the culprit of the equalization of the roll rates clockwise and counterclockwise.
Oh I mean in the control mode that the vast majority of people use in RB (mouse aim), torque is off.
G2 has more drag? Huh. Always thought F4 was more draggy. Guess that's why we have Adam to explain all of this to us
G2/Trop* has more drag. F4 and G2 (non trop) have the same drag, but G2 has more power. So G2 is faster than F4, but G2/Trop is slower than F4.
Hey can you make a video on the impact of air brake on turn ! And can you do guide for bigger plane like the sm.91 plz
I love your content keep up the good content and have fun !
I'll consider it!
Yeah thx buddy
I just started getting into planes to shoot down CAS and been having a lot of fun. Running 6.0 tanks but using G2-Trop for dogfighter, booming and zooming. Would F-4 be better considering I'm using it ground realistic and the BR would be 6.0 regardless?
keep up the good work
I will!
How about the Bf 109 G2? The non trop one.
Less drag and better engine performance, so prob about equal to the F-4.
Less drag since it's not trop, so it's faster than the F4 since it has more power.
non trop G2 is slower by 5kph vs F4 (up to 6000m). non trop G2 has more draggy wings and fuselage than F4.
Both ones are good planes,they climbs fast and have firepower when have gunpods
Do not use the gunpods. Atleast not on the f4
Yeah I don't recommend gunpods on the F4.
i was really quite suprised that the g2 trop lost in the overheating. That was the only category i thought the g2 trop would win in!
I'd say they are close enough to be basically equal in overheating. But yeah trop versions don't seem to have improved thermals, perhaps counterintuitively.
@@AdamTheEnginerdtesting with closed radiators is unrealistic. with open radiators the G-2 definitely heats up slower than the F-4. On some maps the G-2 can go the entire match, including slow climbs, while WEPing without overheating. The F-4 overheats fully even on colder maps with full rads. Idk how much the radiators affect performance though, so it may not be worth it for the extra WEP time.
I mean. Those are all important stats, but acceleration and energy retention are, too. My guess is that the G2 would have better retention.
Climb rate also gives acceleration, there's no need for 2 different graphs. For energy retention, F4 turns better and has less drag, so it would win that as well.
@@AdamTheEnginerd what about speed retention?
@@sule.A Top speed is a great indicator of speed retention in a straight like.
I HAVE BEEN LIED TO BY THE STAT CARD FOR SO LONG
Yeah, stat cards are misleading at best.
Can you showcase how to effectively use the laminar flow wings of the p-51s in battle? Like, examples of how you use high speed handling to reverse enemies in a dive or deliberately trap enemies into a high speed fight and use their poor high speed handling against them. There's nothing like that on RUclips and most people don't even know that about P51s and use the WS keys to turn (big no no as it breaks the air flow and causes immense drag and makes you lose precious speed with an already sub-par acceleration).
You explained the laminar flow already but... Please show us how it's done in a real battle!
Laminar flow doesn't affect high speed handling, it just means your wing drag is lower so you'll go faster. And in reality it's unlikely that the P51 had significant amounts of laminar flow.
@@AdamTheEnginerd All of the P51s at high speeds seem to cut the air in a way that makes it feel like you're literally a knife at high speed. Even the hispano mustang. At least when you're using the mouse controls. You wouldn't be able to tell if you're using only pitch and yaw axis.
@@berg699 They do that because they have low drag compared to its contemporaries yeah.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Would be cool if you could develop a technique where you exploited that in a video. Is it doable?
I am sure it would be satisfying for viewesr and pilots alike to witness a high speed maneuver reversal or trap that only works with P51s, like every plane has its unique speciality, and using that to its maximum potential.
Ya feel me? 🤓
depending on br for ground rb the f4 gunpods are better if you want to go for tanks because of the better ammunition
Someone else implied something similar. I don't talk about ground RB in these kinds of videos though, only air RB.
Buddy, I see you addressed it a bit in the comments, but did you also do a comparison with the f-4 trop considering it is the g-2 trop you tested? That and or include the non trop variants of the G-2? Most of us if we really care about the 109 as much as each other do, we most likely bought the Romanian G-2 if seasoned players or the Italian/Hungarian G-2 for it's newer players.
Also I wonder if the acceleration is the same for both? 100kg weight 300 hp difference, seems like a wash, albeit F4 should still have a turning advantage.
G2 is definitely better than F4, it's the G2Trop that is kinda slow.
Best bet to compare performance is to compare ratios, so how much weight % increase vs how much power increase. Seems like 300 HP is more than worth 100kg.
I am in love with the F4 especially with the extra 2 cannons
15mm blehh.
@@AdamTheEnginerd How dare you!. I dont have the G-2 yet :(
What about compression, rip speed, dive speed ?
Same airframes, should be the same, possibly slightly better rip speeds (well, slightly harder to achieve those speeds) in the g2 trop
As Bossman says. If there is a difference, it's small.
Nice video mate! I would have sworn the G2/trop is better, but guess the numbers don't lie. Anyway, how did you get those stats on screen at the overheating test? They seem useful.
Thanks!
Overlay: forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/483838-warthunder-real-time-information/
One certain Hans-Joachim Marseille wouldn't be very surprised by these tests. I mean if his Bf 109 G-2 wouldn't have killed him.
I thought the same
If they didn't want to lose their aces in silly incidents like those perhaps they should've used ejection seats a few years sooner. The idea was old and the technology was advanced enough, but they didn't bother until late WW2.
@@liger7275 Do you even realize how heavy and bulky an ejection seat is and how small the Bf 109 is?
@@ericfunk5838 They had ejection seats on the He162 which is small and light. Of course they did it because they had to since the engine blocked the pilot's escape route. You are thinking about those massive jet seats, but they don't have to be that big, smaller ones are less safe, but I'll take that over being injured and having to jump out.
Pilots need additional training to use ejection seats, especially early ones. The pilots already in combat probably would not have wanted to rely on an ejection seat that can be damaged in battle as well.
As an Italian/American main, I have been conditioned to use wing mounted guns so def sticking with the g2 I really dislike the 15mm for some reason
I dislike the 15mm myself.
the 15mm dont do so well against air targets but surprisingly better at shooting ground targets and it does especially well at that br
so those 1000 games i played in the G2 trop were wasted?
Yeah, same here. My most played plane, and vehicle. Although I still plan on sticking with the g2, maily cuz I forgot to spade the f4
Not really wasted, but you could have been playing a better plane yes.
Yo Adam, I really love the German fighters at 5.0 BR. But since this ju288c spam this once wonderful BR got ruined. I get into games with 3 fighters and 4 bombers against 7 fighters, and I always get outnumbered. Is there any solution, other than just quitting this BR? Or any chance that this insanity stops?
That's what the Allies had to deal with for 5 years. Basically you do your best to carry, and you should know ahead of time from your team's bomber count that you will be outnumbered.
im pretty sure if u fly with rads open the f4 will overheat before the g2
G2/Trop at 100% rads stays in orange temperatures for the length of the test map, so I did both at 50% rads instead. F4 overheats in 4:29 and the G2/Trop overheats in 5:22. F4 indeed overheats before the G2/Trop by about 10-15%.
I have to question the relevance of the overheat test in this video. With all the radiators closed, isn't it more of a test of the engines' heat production and tolerance while removing the radiator performance from the equation? I'd think that if you could only do one test, it would be better to have the radiators slightly open since the engines are probably similar, being from the same faction and maker, so radiator performance is at least a variable.
Yeah you do have a point. Both aircraft overheat on 100% rads, so we do know that they should be comparable in the thermal department. Perhaps a test at 50% rads would have been ideal, but I'd predict that they would give a similar overheating time.
I don't like sand... so G2/Trop is my favorite, honestly one of my favorites in the whole game. The sand filter plays a big part.
Lmao a fellow sand hater.
How prudent or viable would it be to take an F4 into 5.3 ground RB?
My line of thinking is that it should be somewhat competitive not for it's speed but it's turning by comparison to heavier american opponents
have you tested how the G-2 compares? Sadly it only exists as a premium. IIRC it is slightly better than the trop variant, it was one of the first planes in the game that actually had been modified to be actually different from the /trop variant (e.g. bf109 F-4 and F-4/trop originally had identicle performance)
plz adam i need help with the g56, i saw the vid that u did but now its 6.3 and there are more threats... plz i need help, my sl are running out!!
btw i like the g2 for some reason...
It's on my list!
@@AdamTheEnginerd THANKS!!!
Me when they say to me "OK Enerd"
_Curb your Performance_
Haha what?
@@AdamTheEnginerd if you talk about stats in game (regardless the reals or the ones the cards show) they usually call you "Enerd" which is a shortening for Enginerd. However knowing how your plane might outperform the enemy in some concrete way is crucial for critical situations.
@@kingghidorah8106 Oh I see. Yeah every decent player knows that understanding aircraft strengths and weaknesses is important in order to succeed in battle.
Ok Enerd
Do this style of video with the 5.3 british spitfires and seafires?
Eh Seafires aren't very interesting to me personally haha.
@@AdamTheEnginerd maybe compare the sea fury and the other British 5.3 props then?
If your planning do to anymore comparison videos can you do one for the rank 4 Yaks or Ki 84s?
Maybe!
Bigger wing area means better turn time? What about energy retention?
Hard to say. MER wouldn't change much I imagine.
Unrelated, but I believe the gun especially f-4 now just tickling enemy to death.
Same gun though.
How to get tje extra informations below the normal speed alt...
Overlay: forum.warthunder.com/index.php?/topic/483838-warthunder-real-time-information/
Is the difference between F4 and F4/trop as well as G2 and G2/trop modelled in the game?
If so, F4/trop vs G2/trop and F4 vs G2 would be apples to apples comparison IMO.
Yup it's modelled.
Well the point of the video is to compare tech tree planes.
@@AdamTheEnginerd F4/trop is tech tree tho
No biggie, still very good research!
It's a good video！Thank you from Japan！
My pleasure!
also ADAM, how did you get that huge stat card on the side of the hud which goes into immense detail
Nice prequel reference
Prequel bestquel.
If the f4 wins against g2 trop in flight performance and other stuff, why gaijin had put g2 trop in a better br ?
Better gunpods is the only reason.
Ohk
But yea i didn't notice it coz now i rarely use them, i mean if u can get in a better position to shoot, why would u sacrifice it for more firepower
@@avnishyadav1492 firepower is absolutely an important factor in a plane's viability, there are plenty of situations where you would want the 20 mm gunpods
@@thefolder69 i can still wreck heavy bombers with my 20 mm engine cannon, and i dont need the 20 mils gunpods
kinda expectad that conclusion, F series are the only 109s that can be troublesome for me to fight, but the G and K series are way more easy to fight against
Conclusion is a surprise for most I think.
I could be wrong but I believe the G-2 has less control stiffening at higher speeds?
I don't think there's a significant difference. If you're talking from personal experience, it could be that since the G2/Trop has more trouble and takes longer to get at high speed, it looks like high speed handling is better.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Hm ok. It's not really from personal experience I just thought I heard from somewhere that the G variants had upgraded controls from the F
Why not perform the test with both 15mm and 20mm pod equipped? More representative of what happen in match
Hmm I see more Bf109s without gunpods than with gunpods, and the gunpods aren't equal so it would skew the results.
Hey adam I have a video idea!
I was wondering could you explain how afterburner on jet engine works? And why some jet engine just can't create afterburner?
Made a short video about afterburners here: ruclips.net/video/-4wa1JCaSnc/видео.html&ab_channel=AdamTheEnginerd
To answer your 2nd question though, to afterburn you need an extra duct with fuel injectors after the turbine exhaust, that's all. So it adds length and weight to the engine, which could make it harder to fit in an aircraft. Furthermore, the duct increases the losses and decreases the thrust slightly when the engine is not afterburning, so the afterburning capability is not always good.
@@AdamTheEnginerd Thank you!
So G-2 is suited for gunpods? With the extra Horsepower(which is just 60kgf thrust for 100hp gain)... It's not a significant improvement I see.
Can't really speak in terms of thrust gain, since that depends on the speed. But the power gain isn't too big, and it comes with more weight too which partially counterbalances it. But the main issue is the filter on the G2/Trop which adds drag.
hey adamm we had a duel today, you were flying a Re 2005 and i was on the FW D9 i can't talk in WT, and you said GG, i don't want to look or sound disrespectful so GG, i can't believe i beat you once i realized it was you i stoped my intentions and then saw a chance when you tried to stall me out, nice fight man
Oh yeah gg man!
No one in war thunder is flying anymore, Adam is the only one
🧢
Hmm I don't think so.
Not surprising. The trop filter does have a negative effect on performance. What i'd like to see is a comparison between G2 and G2/Trop and the G6 and G6''Trop'' (finnish prem) to see how much performance one looses with the ''tropical'' filter on.
Trop makes them lose about 15km/h in top speed.
@@AdamTheEnginerd yeh that's fair tho does do the ''trop'' variants loose out on anything else? (and does the filter on the G6 actually effect it in any way at all).
Can the 20mm gun pods kill medium tanks that the 15mm gun pods does?
I don't think so.
Shame that there is no G4 in WT. Furthermore, they should make a folder with G2/trop, G2, G4 and an early G6 in third era and already existing G6/Late in a fourth era.
That's a lot of different models for basically the same performance.
The numbers, Mason. What do they mean?
Everything!
hey can u make, "best of bf 109 series" from Bf 109 B1 late to Bf 109 K4. thanks!
How much worse would gun pods make the F-4?
I made a video about how gunpods affect performance, it's roughly an overall 2-5% reduction in performance.
I would LOVE to see a vid on the F-5e (Or C) or the MiG 23
F5e is significantly better than the C in speed, energy retention and it has better missiles
Haha I don't play top tier thoouuugghh.
the 15mm's are not really that much worse then the 20mm's if you use the Zementkerngeschoss for the 15mm's.
Eh 15mm feel like 50 cals.
Both of them have epic camos ngl
Yeah.
Were you playing the hornet mk.III recetly Adam?
Yup! Why?
You killed me and I was curious if it was you
Why you haven't compared TWR?
I don't know if it is important but g2 supposed to be better at stall fight.
It's not too useful to compare TWR, especially when climb is already compared, and in that they are basically equal.
Prob the 2 best aircraft in the entire tech tree
Maybe, but even a sh***y Spitfire Mk. Vb outf**s them both.
Quite strong yes.
And what 'bout MER? For sim battles fighting other fighters this in my opinion is more important than turn rate.
Since F4 turns better, is faster and climbs about the same, MER should favor F4 slightly.
Great job, love this type of content !!! Maybe u can do the same with MER and compression ? Just an idea
Thanks!
Since F4 is faster and turns better while having the same climb, its MER should be better than the G2/Trop's. As for compression someone else said they might be different, I'd have to test or check the files for that.
Video idea 💡 the effects of wing sweep on Jets (the two that can actually use it) performance 0% vs 50 vs 100
Yup that's in my plans! Will probably do it on the F14, since variable sweep wings are a new thing and there might be bugs.