I've been an artist for 12 years and this is by far the most mind-blowing concept i have learned in those years. Literally took time out to observe every object in my studio after watching this video and it felt like a veil was lifted from my eyes! Absolutely incredible!
This was really interesting, and I certainly feel like it will help a lot of students! But, I feel like there is one pretty huge thing to remember about this lesson, which is Local Value! This Lambert Scale works great for very lightly colored objects, but remember if you are shading a dark object, you won't be able to have such a dramatic difference between the light and shadow family of values. When you have an object or model with a naturally dark local value, the value structure will have to be shifted. That being said, the Lambert Scale can still be used for shading the light family, but a tonal shift will need to accompany it to accommodate for dark local values.
@@Ellionart - I think it could work for other lighting conditions, but it would be MUCH more complex. For diffused lighting, it seems like you would just need to consider the fact that a lightly colored object would be very bright and you would only see ambient occlusion.
@@Gondohar glad I’m not the only one here noticing this. I have not even once done a drawing where I can go from light to dark so fast, if I do that it becomes flat and ruins my drawings. And I do a lot of realism so my job is 80% shading, even with my tattoos since I’m a tattoo artist as well. This lambert value scale don’t make sense at all. The more values, especially the mid to darker tones I give my drawings, the more depth they get.
@@Gondohar even the drawings he shows in the video doesn’t follow the lambert scale lol. They all have a very smooth transition, as it is supposed to be of course
it works with an object with one light source and turning off the bounce light because bounce light is just another light source but so much weaker. If you apply the law to every light ray. It will look realistic. This law is how we identify form.
My drawings were praised for most of my life, but I never got formal training, and I stopped drawing for a long while. I don't think anything I do is of professional quality. In some ways there's nothing more infuriating than seeing what Sargent could do at 19. It makes you feel like if you were ever any good you should be there by now. But who knows, negative outlooks aren't conducive to positive results.
ive watched this video 3 times and studied every single minute of it in my sketchbook. your passion for teaching stan and featuring skilled artists is invaluable information and am indebted to you. thankyou
That really did blow my mind. Wowww. I sort of knew the tones near the terminator should be a bit darker so that there's a nice gradation from the light side to the shadow side, but I didn't know there was a science to it! And I also didn't know about "dirty" lights where you could mistakingly make the tones on the light side too dark. Thank you! Thank you for the step-by-step process as well. As an inexperienced artist, I always never know where to begin. I just fumble my way through until it looks right. But having a process will help do things faster and confidently.
This immediately improved my art. I can't stress enough how life changing this information is. If you're an artist, I IMPLORE you to try and grasp this concept. Great work, Proko. 👌👍
I have taken computer graphics classes that discussed lambert's law as an engineer and I can't believe I didn't remember it at all while learning to draw and shade. This was an amazing video, thanks so much!
This is the thing I've been looking for throughout the internet. This is like imo the most important fundamental to define form. With this law you can literally define any form imagineable.
Knowing about the percentages instinctively is one thing but to have it explained so succinctly and clearly was revelatory. I know this will immediately improve my failure rate.
Yes, we want Dorian to teach a course on shading please! Thanks a million for this colaboration and sharing! I'm reposting all of your content on My media Proko! Greetings from Mexico City!
I think its the best Art lessons, tips and Arts concepts channel in the whole web, cuz besides the proko didactics and very clever precise lessons, here we find a lot of professionalism, a very accurate sense of artworks and drawing knowledge and a lot of interesting issues brought by very nice artists that really love to draw. Thank you very much, mr. Proko, you really make a great difference in our fantastic world of Arts. Im very glad that there still good artists in this world like you and all the people you brought to your channel interested purelly in their love for their professions. 😁
This was really helpful. I noticed when I took my drawing class at school that Shading was one of my weakest points to tackle. I so would love for Dorian to do a shading course. :) Also thanks Stan for introducing me to these lovely artists the past decade i've been following ya.
What I love about this video is that he explains a principle of science and light, then he shows how to apply it to a medium like drawing. Some teachers do one or the other, but not both in the same video. Thanks!
Yes, Dorian shading course please. I love things like this, full physics explaination before the tips and tricks. Stan blew by mind a year ago with lightest dark/darkest light but the way Dorian got there really made achieving that effect click.
I've worked in 3d graphics and shader programming a little bit, and I was a kinda surprised how the description of using planes at the beginning was basically the same as the math behind basic 3d shading. It's all derived from the same basic logic, in the end
I actually found my way into following that fall off naturally from doing studies, but even then this vid still blew my mind and made me realize why my shading was effective!
I really thought I understood this concept until today. This was life changing as far as art goes, I've been using the linear concept, and now I see why my art looked off. The most helpful thing in this video, and something that I loved, was the fact that you used visuals and graphics in unison as Dorian spoke, this really drove the message home for me. I've gone to class and had multiple instructors say this very thing to me, but because there was no visual illustration as it was being explained, I didn't learn this concept, and it's hurt my art for years. Thank you guys for this video, it's wonderful to wake up and learn something new!
superb video. Enough is said on shadows all over the internet, this video has revealed to me something fundamental about light. I'm a pro artist, and the linear scale conditionned my brain, until today. Amazing video, this opened a door into light. Thank you so much.
"Yeah, whatever. I bet I'm not going to learn anything new" Then my mind was blown! Thank you for the great information. Loved the little cartoon clips in this too
This was SO HELPFUL! I never thought a 12 min video could help so much someone who’s been drawing/painting for over 15 years!!! How dis nobody teach me this in art school?????
I can't do maths but I am extremely analytical person. What was here described I did subconsciously but never sat down to really test it out. This theoretical and scietific approach made me go: now, that makes sense! This was so great for analytical artist-wannabes, like me. Thanks a ton! And yes, more Dorian, please, I'll take it in bulk :D
Wow, its crazy how much more info can be conveyed with just a little bit of added shadows along the curve. When the gradient was smoothed i was like whoa. Def. mind blown
Thomas Buysse rpsrally.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Staedtler-502-2mm-Lead-Pointer-Tub_data1.jpg this is an example but this image doesn’t lie, it’s that sharp! I have accidentally stabbed my self in the leg with it once and certainly felt it!
This is what i wanted to learn and study in art school. Unfortunately, many of my tutors held a standing of; if you’re here, then your craft is adequate, so let’s focus on expression and ideas... which is fine i guess, but having attended that university’s night classes from the age of 8, the degree course at 18 is far from what i expected of the degree course... In the end i dropped out and continued to learn from books and my own observations. Thank you guys so much for producing these videos and exposing us to the thoughts and lessons from these artists! It’s too often a rarity that we get to see the utility of the internet actually purposed so effectively! Thanks a bunch!
Too bad maths teachers actually don't teach it. :D You have exercises like this: Tom bought 200 bananas (who does that?) He gave 2/3 to his friends (lost a bet or something? Or is he friends with gorillas? I don't mind, just curious) Half of what he had left he gave to grandma (awww, what a good boy...) and was left with four bananas. (what?) How many bananas did he gave to his friends and to his grandma? - now, motivation for something like this is definitely high :D I already got lost at 200 bananas. I mean - WHY? :D
Wow I've been teaching a simplified version of this to beginners for years. Didn't know anyone else did something like this since I've never seen it in books (at least not close to how I do it). It a total game changer for beginners.
I don’t understand where Dorian is getting his numbers from (?); doesn’t Lambert’s cosine law give: cos(80 degrees) = 17% rather than (3:09) 45% and cos(10 degrees) = 98% rather than (3:58) 99% ?
Talk about staying on your lane. He tried explaining the physics of it, man. But failed in some ways. The incidence angle part is also cringeworthy but you just have to understand to understand I guess.
iadtag look. Dorian supposes that all artists have got shading wrong in a subtle way, and then goes on to explain the correct way. the concepts are nicely explained, the first 8 min are all about Lambert’s cosine law. However, all numbers and tables quoted are wrong (the first 8 min), so i’m slightly surprised that (a) proko didn’t realise this; (b) that Dorian didn’t realise this. In particular, in addition to the mistakes i mentioned above, all numbers in the table at 4:11 are wrong, the correct values (to two significant figures) being, 10 -> 98% 20 -> 93% 30 -> 86% 40 -> 76% 50 -> 64% 60 -> 50% 70 -> 34% 80 -> 17% 90 -> 0% the so-called Lambert value scale at 4:52 is consequently wrong also, because it it based on the table the sphere shading at 5:07 also looks wrong (it transitions too sharply to darks), again because it is based on the. wrong scale the cosine function diagram at 5:48 doesn’t look like a cosine everything after the Lambert scale discussion, after 8:10, is excellent imho, although that was meant to be an add on.
@@wakabaloola The cosine law gives the radiance, but he is also converting radiance to brightness. I think he's using a simple gamma correction formula used in sRGB because the more accurate formulas make the values a little lighter that he states.
@RonFrancis thanks for your input, it’s appreciated. what is the relation between radiance and brightness? can you point to a reference? Dorian mentioned a cosine dependence, and if the said conversion you mention involves the angle it won’t be a cosine anymore.
I think there's a mistake. Considering lambert cosine law at an angle of 80° you should get 17% of the light. A 45% is more to a 55° angle. Or am I wrong on lambert law?
That is correct for the radiance, but I think he also takes into account our nonlinear perception of brightness. When a surface is reflecting 50% of the light, we interpret it as 75% brightness. So the “linear” scale he showed was actually nonlinear in brightness but linear in perceived brightness.
@@AdmiralSamStarcraft That explains why it reminded me of sRGB vs linear RGB luminance diagrams. It looks like the equation is something like cos(n) ** 0.4545 then (results: [1.00, 0.99, 0.97, 0.94, 0.89, 0.82, 0.73, 0.61, 0.45, 0.00]) .4545 or (1/2.2) is an approximation of the standard sRGB gamma curve. so.. I THINK that the values shown are specified in sRGB space, but as a percentage. That has some problems, mainly that it really only works for that particular color -- you can't just scale the values to get the correct curve for mid-grey, for example. You have to calculate where the color you want is in linear scale, remove the gamma correction from the curve, scale the curve, and re-apply the gamma correction. Well.. my conclusion is that supplying the values in the particular format he has, is much less useful than it looks. Working in linear color in your paint program would be a more solid way to address this.
I dont know anything ablout gamma correction or whatever but If you simulate the Situation with blender and select sRGB as a Display Device you get the scale he shows in the Video. But if you switch to "None" the values are the actual cosine values. Not sure what I can conclude from that though :D *Edit: Just realized the values didnt match for the lighter areas so I am very confused now
@@teinili I don't doubt that the overall conclusion is pretty much right, and think that the lesson is very valuable; it's certainly a trap I've fallen into. It's just that the explanation is a bit off.
It explains so much! The reason art looks realistic in shading isn't because there's more shade than light it's because it's the exact opposite, one angle greatly increases the percentage, so basically if you want realistic shading don't go all out instead work it up slowly until the light highlights the drawing. It's either light or no light!
Man, I love you man! (both of you!) I am STRUGGLING as we speak in my drawing class trying to draw shadows on apples correctly. THIS WILL HELP. So yes, a full shading course would be fantabulous!!!!! Mind officially blown!!!!!
well, there is a hidden factor.. 'lightness' and 'luminance' is different. lightness = L*(cos 80) = L*(0.174) = 0.45. author didnt explain in this video.
@@theonetribble5867 ?? cos(0) = 1. L is a formula for converting radiance to brightness. In the video, it was a simple gamma scalar which is fairly close to more realistic formulas.
6 years of art college hundreds of hours of model drawing and painting and not a single time was i thought anything close to resembling this. I feel like a massive missing link has just been found in my draftsmanship. thank you Proko and Dorian for doing the work "normal" art schools dont even bother to do.
Same reaction!! But I know the reason, I kind of knew this going-dark-too-early deep in my subconscious but here Dorian articulated it and now it is more clear to me how "perceived brightness was interfering with use of the linear greyscale tool!
This is by far the most instructive class of draw i had ever seen on my life. Thank you very much Dorian, and Proko of course, you are a wonderful teacher. I'll be lurking of your channel and instagram from now on ;). See ya
I've bought two drawing courses in my life, Dorian's was one of them. I reference him as the person you want to study when you're ready to understand why shadows fall where they do.
a full-on shading course would be awesome. Love your material and yes my mind was completely and totally blown. This is my second time reviewing the material.
Yes!!!! On cubes in perspective, light angles etc...... This was a great class!!!! I get frustrated as even my egg shape is not as perfectly round as yours but I am determined to give my shapes more weight and solidity.
I have read all the Dorien's articles few years back. All of them were really helpful and dirty halftones in particular stuck in my mind and I always try to bare this rule in mind while creating. Another thing for me was penumbra, accuracy training and memory training (with two papers - either one in different room). I will definitely have round two with those articles...
Awesome, I wasn't expecting my mind to be blown, but I also didn't expect the value difference to change so dramatically. I also guess a 10 percent change initially.
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
Was your mind blown?!? If you want Dorian to teach a course on shading let us know in the comments.
I’ve just started my a-levels, your videos are helping me get started with the fundamentals properly
Yes! 🤯 Extremely useful info! That’s why my last couple portraits didn’t look right! (My lights were too dark)
Yes! This video was so helpful! I would love a full shading course so much
YES YES YES YES
Yes, please
"The closer we get to shadow, the faster it darkens" sounds like a principle for life.
Darkness within darkness
That's kinda dark ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
life imitates art
Agreed!
@@Ojvyfz that’s true!
Dorian was my teacher at the Barcelona Academy of Art :p. The first time he taught us this, it was indeed mind blowing!!!!!!
Lucky! That must have been awesome having a teacher like him!
This is really an eyeopener .. thanks Proko & Dorian I'd really want Dorian to teach a course on shading
He does! Dorian has a whole course on his website. www.theshadingcourse.com/
@@icemarle Thank you for the link
I learned something new today! Identify the Terminator right away so he doesn’t destroy my drawing! ✍️
just trust me
@@NixisIno
First Time I have read the word "mind blowing" in a title of video that actually managed to blow my mind!
*****NOT CLICKBAIT******
right???
So true
This was so fun to work on, thanks Proko & team! 🙌🙌
Your explanation was great
Thanks man ❤️
You really opened my mind on this one. Great insight. Thanks for providing this.
Thank you for sharing your knowledge with us 🙏
Sir, I really hope you teach a shading course somewhere sometime soon. This was amazing!
@@julianmancipeacuna7314 the Shading Course is live at www.theshadingcourse.com and www.proko.com/course/the-shading-course :)
I've been an artist for 12 years and this is by far the most mind-blowing concept i have learned in those years. Literally took time out to observe every object in my studio after watching this video and it felt like a veil was lifted from my eyes! Absolutely incredible!
This was really interesting, and I certainly feel like it will help a lot of students! But, I feel like there is one pretty huge thing to remember about this lesson, which is Local Value!
This Lambert Scale works great for very lightly colored objects, but remember if you are shading a dark object, you won't be able to have such a dramatic difference between the light and shadow family of values. When you have an object or model with a naturally dark local value, the value structure will have to be shifted. That being said, the Lambert Scale can still be used for shading the light family, but a tonal shift will need to accompany it to accommodate for dark local values.
Also it only works for spotlight, not diffused light
@@Ellionart - I think it could work for other lighting conditions, but it would be MUCH more complex. For diffused lighting, it seems like you would just need to consider the fact that a lightly colored object would be very bright and you would only see ambient occlusion.
@@Gondohar glad I’m not the only one here noticing this. I have not even once done a drawing where I can go from light to dark so fast, if I do that it becomes flat and ruins my drawings. And I do a lot of realism so my job is 80% shading, even with my tattoos since I’m a tattoo artist as well. This lambert value scale don’t make sense at all. The more values, especially the mid to darker tones I give my drawings, the more depth they get.
@@Gondohar even the drawings he shows in the video doesn’t follow the lambert scale lol. They all have a very smooth transition, as it is supposed to be of course
it works with an object with one light source and turning off the bounce light because bounce light is just another light source but so much weaker. If you apply the law to every light ray. It will look realistic. This law is how we identify form.
A full course in Proko?
Hell yes!
(And the Marshall's Course of perspective)
Marshal's course too! YES!!!
WE NEED THAT
Where can I see at least the peek of Marshall's perspective course?
@@marikothecheetah9342 i second that question
@@marikothecheetah9342 ruclips.net/video/R60e9_ofV68/видео.html
Dorian shows works from his student days wtf, I need another lifetime.
My drawings were praised for most of my life, but I never got formal training, and I stopped drawing for a long while. I don't think anything I do is of professional quality. In some ways there's nothing more infuriating than seeing what Sargent could do at 19. It makes you feel like if you were ever any good you should be there by now. But who knows, negative outlooks aren't conducive to positive results.
@@futurestoryteller Don't compare yourself with other people. Other people have other problems and other lives.
A friend and my great teacher Burne Hogarth once told me that I would never draw the way he did, but would draw the way I do.
This is definitely new to me. Also, the amount of work he put into shading that egg gave me a new level of appreciation to fine artists 👌
My mind was totally blown, I would love to see a full-on shading course. Thanks for the great content.
It's almost as if he knows all of the art problems I've been dealing with this month O.O
That's true
right lol
Ikr
ive watched this video 3 times and studied every single minute of it in my sketchbook. your passion for teaching stan and featuring skilled artists is invaluable information and am indebted to you. thankyou
That really did blow my mind. Wowww. I sort of knew the tones near the terminator should be a bit darker so that there's a nice gradation from the light side to the shadow side, but I didn't know there was a science to it! And I also didn't know about "dirty" lights where you could mistakingly make the tones on the light side too dark. Thank you!
Thank you for the step-by-step process as well. As an inexperienced artist, I always never know where to begin. I just fumble my way through until it looks right. But having a process will help do things faster and confidently.
This immediately improved my art. I can't stress enough how life changing this information is. If you're an artist, I IMPLORE you to try and grasp this concept. Great work, Proko. 👌👍
When Proko says you'll be mind-blown, you will definitely be mind-blown.
Oh, I definitely would love to see Doran teaching a full shading course.
This single video is fantastic btw!!
the Shading Course is live at www.theshadingcourse.com and www.proko.com/course/the-shading-course :)
Wow what would I do without this channel
I have taken computer graphics classes that discussed lambert's law as an engineer and I can't believe I didn't remember it at all while learning to draw and shade. This was an amazing video, thanks so much!
This is the thing I've been looking for throughout the internet. This is like imo the most important fundamental to define form. With this law you can literally define any form imagineable.
I’ve never seen light explained quite this way before, this was brilliant!
Knowing about the percentages instinctively is one thing but to have it explained so succinctly and clearly was revelatory. I know this will immediately improve my failure rate.
Yes, we want Dorian to teach a course on shading please! Thanks a million for this colaboration and sharing! I'm reposting all of your content on My media Proko! Greetings from Mexico City!
I think its the best Art lessons, tips and Arts concepts channel in the whole web, cuz besides the proko didactics and very clever precise lessons, here we find a lot of professionalism, a very accurate sense of artworks and drawing knowledge and a lot of interesting issues brought by very nice artists that really love to draw.
Thank you very much, mr. Proko, you really make a great difference in our fantastic world of Arts. Im very glad that there still good artists in this world like you and all the people you brought to your channel interested purelly in their love for their professions. 😁
This was really helpful. I noticed when I took my drawing class at school that Shading was one of my weakest points to tackle. I so would love for Dorian to do a shading course. :) Also thanks Stan for introducing me to these lovely artists the past decade i've been following ya.
Thanks you! I've been painting and drawing for a million years, and the Lambert scale is a revelation!
I'd def be down for a full shading course with even more Terminator references.
What I love about this video is that he explains a principle of science and light, then he shows how to apply it to a medium like drawing. Some teachers do one or the other, but not both in the same video. Thanks!
Oh woooow, now I’ve truly seen the light! 🤩 Mindblowing, indeed! 😄💪
Yes, Dorian shading course please. I love things like this, full physics explaination before the tips and tricks. Stan blew by mind a year ago with lightest dark/darkest light but the way Dorian got there really made achieving that effect click.
I've worked in 3d graphics and shader programming a little bit, and I was a kinda surprised how the description of using planes at the beginning was basically the same as the math behind basic 3d shading. It's all derived from the same basic logic, in the end
I actually found my way into following that fall off naturally from doing studies, but even then this vid still blew my mind and made me realize why my shading was effective!
I've never been this early.
Edit: This is very useful to me! When I shade my drawings look so dark, now I know why
early gang rise up!
Same
Same
Totally
Same
I really thought I understood this concept until today. This was life changing as far as art goes, I've been using the linear concept, and now I see why my art looked off. The most helpful thing in this video, and something that I loved, was the fact that you used visuals and graphics in unison as Dorian spoke, this really drove the message home for me. I've gone to class and had multiple instructors say this very thing to me, but because there was no visual illustration as it was being explained, I didn't learn this concept, and it's hurt my art for years. Thank you guys for this video, it's wonderful to wake up and learn something new!
My God...I have been living in the dark all this time!!
Nice joke really set the tone ;)
@@EliteprosoldierMW3 overall it' a value-able lesson :)
Well, now you have seen the light. ; )
But not as dark as you thought.
You just gotta keep your head up. Around 10 degrees up
superb video. Enough is said on shadows all over the internet, this video has revealed to me something fundamental about light. I'm a pro artist, and the linear scale conditionned my brain, until today. Amazing video, this opened a door into light. Thank you so much.
"Yeah, whatever. I bet I'm not going to learn anything new"
Then my mind was blown!
Thank you for the great information.
Loved the little cartoon clips in this too
This was SO HELPFUL! I never thought a 12 min video could help so much someone who’s been drawing/painting for over 15 years!!! How dis nobody teach me this in art school?????
*THROWS ALL OF MY MONEY AT THE FULL SHADING COURSE!*
I can't do maths but I am extremely analytical person. What was here described I did subconsciously but never sat down to really test it out. This theoretical and scietific approach made me go: now, that makes sense! This was so great for analytical artist-wannabes, like me. Thanks a ton! And yes, more Dorian, please, I'll take it in bulk :D
I’m going to need to start saving for his courses. I’m saying yes to a course on Proko.
what an EGGcelent lesson! I really struggled with the darkest halftones being either too dark or not dark enough and now my eyes are opened!!
dorian makes it very interactive with his 3d stuff.
Wow, its crazy how much more info can be conveyed with just a little bit of added shadows along the curve. When the gradient was smoothed i was like whoa. Def. mind blown
6:23 The fact that i thought the image in the left was a photo
I am so grateful that these artists share their knowledge
The sharpness of his pencil gives me anxiety
💀💀💀
Came here to say the same 😂 !!! Ahahaha
You should see my clutch pencils, love those things. The sharpener makes them super sharp I could class it as a weapon.
@@unorthodoxbox Well, now I wanna see them😅
Thomas Buysse rpsrally.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Staedtler-502-2mm-Lead-Pointer-Tub_data1.jpg this is an example but this image doesn’t lie, it’s that sharp! I have accidentally stabbed my self in the leg with it once and certainly felt it!
This is what i wanted to learn and study in art school. Unfortunately, many of my tutors held a standing of; if you’re here, then your craft is adequate, so let’s focus on expression and ideas... which is fine i guess, but having attended that university’s night classes from the age of 8, the degree course at 18 is far from what i expected of the degree course...
In the end i dropped out and continued to learn from books and my own observations.
Thank you guys so much for producing these videos and exposing us to the thoughts and lessons from these artists! It’s too often a rarity that we get to see the utility of the internet actually purposed so effectively!
Thanks a bunch!
This is why teachers says that math is every where
Too bad maths teachers actually don't teach it. :D You have exercises like this: Tom bought 200 bananas (who does that?) He gave 2/3 to his friends (lost a bet or something? Or is he friends with gorillas? I don't mind, just curious) Half of what he had left he gave to grandma (awww, what a good boy...) and was left with four bananas. (what?) How many bananas did he gave to his friends and to his grandma? - now, motivation for something like this is definitely high :D I already got lost at 200 bananas. I mean - WHY? :D
and yet most math teachers can't draw
@@marikothecheetah9342 The answer is Tom broke.
@@nguyentranminhthoi8962 The only one that comes to my mind. Thank you :)
Marshall's perspective and Dorian's shading course will probably be the most important courses for beginners. I am really excited about this.
wow this was extremely helpful
This is so well done Dorian! Yes, a full-blown shading course would be great for those of us who learn from both the academic and the technical.
I would love to get a course from Dorian.
This was something I’ve noticed but never explained to me, not even in photography. Blown away!
Does this work with hardboiled eggs?
Wow I've been teaching a simplified version of this to beginners for years. Didn't know anyone else did something like this since I've never seen it in books (at least not close to how I do it). It a total game changer for beginners.
I don’t understand where Dorian is getting his numbers from (?);
doesn’t Lambert’s cosine law give:
cos(80 degrees) = 17%
rather than (3:09) 45%
and
cos(10 degrees) = 98%
rather than (3:58) 99%
?
Talk about staying on your lane. He tried explaining the physics of it, man. But failed in some ways. The incidence angle part is also cringeworthy but you just have to understand to understand I guess.
iadtag look. Dorian supposes that all artists have got shading wrong in a subtle way, and then goes on to explain the correct way. the concepts are nicely explained, the first 8 min are all about Lambert’s cosine law.
However, all numbers and tables quoted are wrong (the first 8 min), so i’m slightly surprised that (a) proko didn’t realise this; (b) that Dorian didn’t realise this. In particular, in addition to the mistakes i mentioned above,
all numbers in the table at 4:11 are wrong, the correct values (to two significant figures) being,
10 -> 98%
20 -> 93%
30 -> 86%
40 -> 76%
50 -> 64%
60 -> 50%
70 -> 34%
80 -> 17%
90 -> 0%
the so-called Lambert value scale at 4:52 is consequently wrong also, because it it based on the table
the sphere shading at 5:07 also looks wrong (it transitions too sharply to darks), again because it is based on the. wrong scale
the cosine function diagram at 5:48 doesn’t look like a cosine
everything after the Lambert scale discussion, after 8:10, is excellent imho, although that was meant to be an add on.
@@wakabaloola The cosine law gives the radiance, but he is also converting radiance to brightness. I think he's using a simple gamma correction formula used in sRGB because the more accurate formulas make the values a little lighter that he states.
@RonFrancis thanks for your input, it’s appreciated.
what is the relation between radiance and brightness?
can you point to a reference?
Dorian mentioned a cosine dependence, and if the said conversion you mention involves the angle it won’t be a cosine anymore.
For sure, bring Dorian on
I think there's a mistake. Considering lambert cosine law at an angle of 80° you should get 17% of the light. A 45% is more to a 55° angle.
Or am I wrong on lambert law?
That is correct for the radiance, but I think he also takes into account our nonlinear perception of brightness. When a surface is reflecting 50% of the light, we interpret it as 75% brightness. So the “linear” scale he showed was actually nonlinear in brightness but linear in perceived brightness.
@@AdmiralSamStarcraft That explains why it reminded me of sRGB vs linear RGB luminance diagrams.
It looks like the equation is something like cos(n) ** 0.4545 then (results: [1.00, 0.99, 0.97, 0.94, 0.89, 0.82, 0.73, 0.61, 0.45, 0.00])
.4545 or (1/2.2) is an approximation of the standard sRGB gamma curve.
so.. I THINK that the values shown are specified in sRGB space, but as a percentage. That has some problems, mainly that it really only works for that particular color -- you can't just scale the values to get the correct curve for mid-grey, for example. You have to calculate where the color you want is in linear scale, remove the gamma correction from the curve, scale the curve, and re-apply the gamma correction.
Well.. my conclusion is that supplying the values in the particular format he has, is much less useful than it looks. Working in linear color in your paint program would be a more solid way to address this.
@@AdmiralSamStarcraft So the explanation is only partly to do with physics/optics and the explanation for the rest is to do with how perception works?
I dont know anything ablout gamma correction or whatever but If you simulate the Situation with blender and select sRGB as a Display Device you get the scale he shows in the Video. But if you switch to "None" the values are the actual cosine values. Not sure what I can conclude from that though :D
*Edit: Just realized the values didnt match for the lighter areas so I am very confused now
@@teinili I don't doubt that the overall conclusion is pretty much right, and think that the lesson is very valuable; it's certainly a trap I've fallen into. It's just that the explanation is a bit off.
It explains so much! The reason art looks realistic in shading isn't because there's more shade than light it's because it's the exact opposite, one angle greatly increases the percentage, so basically if you want realistic shading don't go all out instead work it up slowly until the light highlights the drawing. It's either light or no light!
I love your videos I am from India 🇮🇳🇮🇳🇮🇳
This is one of the best RUclips videos that I've watched!
@3:30 i did calculation and got 17.36% of brightness after 80 degree rotation mathematically
exactly
@@wakabaloola He converts from radiance to brightness. Seemingly with a gamma correction formula.
Yeah, cosine of 80 degrees. (dot product between surface normal and direction of light)
@@element4element4 oh it's been three years now I did this comment I don't even remember what is this about 🤣
GEORGEOUS EXPLANATION!!! THE BEST OF ALL AROUND THE WORLD! Thanks a million for the tricks! I'm sharing
This guy is really shady.
Y
Crazily underrated take my like
Guess you can blame it on his shades
Man, I love you man! (both of you!) I am STRUGGLING as we speak in my drawing class trying to draw shadows on apples correctly. THIS WILL HELP. So yes, a full shading course would be fantabulous!!!!! Mind officially blown!!!!!
ah yes, a swiss fellow..
"but i'm not good at math.."
HOW DARE YOU SIR! ***CLOSES VIDEO IN DISGUST***
Interesting, Dorian pointed out some of the points that I just figured out this morning, while also explaining it briefly but clearly. Thanks
isn't cos(80°) = 0.174 not 0.45.
well, there is a hidden factor.. 'lightness' and 'luminance' is different. lightness = L*(cos 80) = L*(0.174) = 0.45. author didnt explain in this video.
@@지훈-x3q OMG thank you. Finally, an answer.
But then cos(0) isn't 1 any more. Is L dependent on the angle as well?
@@theonetribble5867 no. '*' is not 'X(multiply)'. 'L*' is L star'. more information about this 'CIELAB' in wikipedia.
@@theonetribble5867 ?? cos(0) = 1.
L is a formula for converting radiance to brightness. In the video, it was a simple gamma scalar which is fairly close to more realistic formulas.
This is new...changed my thoughts on lighting...thank you a million!!!!
Never came so early
Thats what she said
Yeah but... who to?
6 years of art college hundreds of hours of model drawing and painting and not a single time was i thought anything close to resembling this. I feel like a massive missing link has just been found in my draftsmanship. thank you Proko and Dorian for doing the work "normal" art schools dont even bother to do.
So this is why i get irked when im looking at my shading.
Yes I want Dorian to teach as much as he can about drawing.
I don't know why, but this vid makes me yell.
Same reaction!! But I know the reason, I kind of knew this going-dark-too-early deep in my subconscious but here Dorian articulated it and now it is more clear to me how "perceived brightness was interfering with use of the linear greyscale tool!
finally someone explaining things analytically! helped a lot :)
I am first and no one cares
i do
hatsumaki ↁ_ↁ cool
I do too (σ´∀`)σ
Me too buddy I’m happy you’re happy.
Josh Labadie thanks, I guess
This video changed my art forever.
Incredibly helpful! I need to stop, think and observe more thoroughly. Lightbulb moment, thank you
This is by far the most instructive class of draw i had ever seen on my life. Thank you very much Dorian, and Proko of course, you are a wonderful teacher.
I'll be lurking of your channel and instagram from now on ;).
See ya
I've bought two drawing courses in my life, Dorian's was one of them. I reference him as the person you want to study when you're ready to understand why shadows fall where they do.
This is a great video. If you're an experienced artist, you learn this from observation, but I never knew the math behind it
MIND SO BLOWN. WHAT GOOD WAS ART SCHOOL. I LOVE DORIAN AND PROKO
I find this guy's explanation very valuable. Please invite him to do more.
The stuff on Lamberts emission law solved a lot of questions ive always had about subtle value shifts. Surprised I hadn't seen it before. Thanks!
a full-on shading course would be awesome. Love your material and yes my mind was completely and totally blown. This is my second time reviewing the material.
It's 2023 and still enjoying this!!! Excellent!!! I never imagined I'd see a lesson like this!!!
Yes!!!! On cubes in perspective, light angles etc...... This was a great class!!!! I get frustrated as even my egg shape is not as perfectly round as yours but I am determined to give my shapes more weight and solidity.
Absolutely! Bring him on the channel!
Bring it on! Full course on shading by Dorian..!
I can't express how awesome this channel is.
I have read all the Dorien's articles few years back. All of them were really helpful and dirty halftones in particular stuck in my mind and I always try to bare this rule in mind while creating. Another thing for me was penumbra, accuracy training and memory training (with two papers - either one in different room). I will definitely have round two with those articles...
Whuut?! This video was by far the most helpful on youtube for me. Thank you very much!
Dorian my man, good to see you!!!
Awesome, I wasn't expecting my mind to be blown, but I also didn't expect the value difference to change so dramatically. I also guess a 10 percent change initially.
This helps me understand what makes muddy lighting with an actual reason behind it. Thanks would be neat to see him again on the channel.
Pls Stan. Having a master piece demo of Dorian or even better a full course would be amazing!
This is AMAZING. Never seen such a formulaic approach towards values. Brilliant!