This could be like the antitesis of The Worst Fighting Game, like instead of searching for the worst of the worst, it could be searching for the most obscure and literal hidden gems of the fighting game genre.
45:58 That would be Oichi. Nobunaga's sister. In this series, she's super depressed and melancholy because she witnessed her husband get killed by his brother (typical warring state stuff) and she thinks everything is her fault.
She also comes back in Basara 3 (I think its 3? the one that came west) but all demonic possessed with all those shadowy hands and stuff, and then in one of her endings just sinks back into hell with Nobunaga, was pretty cool
“Go for the knees. Everyone’s most vulnerable body part. Everyone underestimates them, they don’t really appreciate their value…” -Matt McMuscles “Be kind to your knees. You’ll miss them when they’re gone.” -Kurt Vonnegut
So you're telling me Taito can localize and release a version of Dino Rex but not Dark Awake? Even DR got on a physical PS2 collection lmao. This game looks cool!
I’m pretty sure Dark Awake would’ve been too much trouble to bother with. They would’ve been sued a thousand ways from Sunday. The Dark Knight guy was essentially the Dark Knight from D&D’s cartoon, I’m not sure if D&D owns a copyright on Manticores, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
Somewhere in the 14 minute you mention wishing the announcer was more bombastic which reminded me of something i've been wanting you or Max to do: Rate the announcers across ALL fighting games and pick like a top 10.
@@bm1747 i love me some warhammer fantasy. That orc looked like a straight propa git. Honestly warhammer should do a fighting game, I think it could be fun if they made it ridiculous
Nobunaga having a gun is because historically he famously used matchlocks as part of his army. Whereas every Japanese warrior back then was like old-school, he revolutionized Japanese warfare by basically going "Yo, guns are sick, let's use them!" and owned the battlefield.
Not really true, basically everyone was using guns at that point. Shingen was talking about it, and he dies before Nagashino, the big battle that really solidified the modern Japanese perception of the the tanegashima matchlock. Nobunaga just got famous for it because of Japanese pop culture relating to that said Battle of Nagashino. Historians have found Nobunaga won more because of his fortifications, not his guns.
@@src175 Just want to piggyback off of this and expand on it a bit, because it's a subject I am a HUGE NERD about. Yes, firearms were widespread in their use at the time of Nagashino; Chinese-made harquebuses were known and occasionally used prior to the introduction of European-style matchlocks in 1543, but the Portuguese-made weapons were far more reliable and effective, and were being put to use, copied, and even improved upon almost immediately. In addition to the factories at Tanegashima, they were produced in large quantities in Kunitomo and Sakai, and according to some of the sources I've read, often of better quality than what was readily available in Europe at the time; Kunitomo in particular was an important strategic consideration in Nobunaga's war with the Azai and Asakura, since it was in Azai territory. Nagashino wasn't the first time firearms were used to break a cavalry charge (itself a recently-pioneered tactic in Japan), or even the first time the Takeda suffered a defeat thanks to them; Shingen himself, usually considered the most effective Takeda daimyo and arguably one of the greatest samurai commanders of all time, lost at Uedahara 1551 in no small part to the enemy's use of matchlocks. He'd clearly adapted by the time of Mikatagahara, though; Tokugawa Ieyasu seems to have thought that the firearms he had would prove decisive, but the lack of sustained fire on the Tokugawa's part coupled with Shingen rotating out his front lines with fresh troops sent the future shogun packing back to Hamamatsu. The popular conception of Nagashino is that Nobunaga deployed his gunners in ranks and used volley fire to shred the charging Takeda cavalry, with barricades to protect the gunners and funnel the enemy past waiting spearmen; if true, this would have been revolutionary, and not just in Japan. Both volley fire with muskets and the intensive drilling and training required to actually pull that kind of coordinated tactic off wouldn't be employed in Europe until Maurice of Nassau's military reforms in the 1590s. This is why Nobunaga is so often associated with guns in popular media; not that he was the first to use them, but that he used them so effectively. As it turns out, though, the reports of volley fire being used at Nagashino appear not to have come until years after the fact; we can't say for sure whether Nobunaga used ranked volley fire or not, but considering the gunners were drawn from multiple liege lords and the drilling required to make the tactic work, it seems unlikely. We do know from Korean and Chinese sources that Japanese troops were using volley fire during the Korean invasions in the 1590s, so SOMEONE thought up the tactic at some point. Firearms almost certainly did play an important role in the battle though, even if the relentless barrage of fire usually imagined didn't actually happen. Takeda Katsuyori chose to charge the Oda forces, in spite of a rainstorm earlier in the day turning the field between them to mud, which served to slow the horses; he may have expected the rain to have rendered the matchlocks useless, something that actually had cost Nobunaga at Nagashima a couple years prior. Between the mud and barricades slowing and diverting the charges, musket fire picking them off as they approached, and spears stabbing through the barricades as they passed, it was still a total meat grinder; the Takeda lost around 10,000 men (about 2/3 of their forces there), as well as an absurd number of experienced commanders, many of them members of Shingen's renowned 24 Generals. The Takeda managed to limp along for another seven years, but Nagashino was the blow that spelled the end for them.
@@MarquisLeary34 I'll preface this by saying that I am not an expert by any means, just a fairly enthusiastic amateur; I lack the facility with languages to read any primary sources, so I have to rely on second-hand translations and analysis by scholars who actually can examine those primary sources. And I'll admit that until recently I thought the triple ranked volley fire tactic was what was used and what turned the battle into such a disaster for the Takeda. After some more recent reading, though, I really do think that, yes, such an utter defeat is still plausible, even without the use of sustained volley fire. As I mentioned, accounts of volley fire didn't come up until years after the battle, with more contemporary reports seeming to suggest that no such thing happened, and this makes sense to me because of a number of factors. First, there's the fact that the battle was fought to relieve the siege of the Tokugawa-controlled fortress there; it wasn't some carefully selected battlefield, it was a relatively hurried rescue of a garrison in peril. Nobunaga didn't seem to want to get involved at Nagashino at first; Ieyasu, his closest ally for years at that point, had to threaten to switch sides and serve as the Takeda vanguard to an invasion of Owari to get him to agree to assist. Then there's the fact that, as I mentioned, the gunners were not a unit that had trained and drilled together, which would be necessary to develop the coordination to go through the rigorous process of firing and reloading in tandem with hundreds of others; Nobunaga instead asked his subordinates and allies for their best shots, who were then placed in three units under different commanders, one of whom was Honda Tadakatsu, Ieyasu's top commander, not an Oda retainer. This was not anything like a professional army; most of these men would have been conscripted farmers, not professional soldiers, and were serving under very different liege lords, some of whom weren't even technically subservient to Nobunaga. The idea that so many disparate troops could be quickly brought together and whipped into the kind of lockstep needed to perform sustained volley fire strains credulity. Still, gunners were clearly an important part of the plan; after all, a thousand matchlocks were deployed, but outside of perhaps an initial barrage, they were likely used as sharpshooters picking off horsemen as they crested the slope just in front of the fences, something to help whittle down the Takeda as they were forced to either end of the barricades. While he may have initially been hesitant to make his big move at Nagashino, Nobunaga seems to have seen an opportunity and put what plans he'd been making into action. He'd clearly been considering how to break the Takeda's cavalry charges; after all, it was the tactic they were best known for. And the portable barricades would have certainly done that; a cavalry charge is useless against an entrenched enemy. Even without fortifications to hide behind, a charge will fail if the formation being charged doesn't break; cavalry charges rely on foot scattering and breaking to do their damage, which is why a disciplined wall of pikes stops them dead. The only way the Takeda lancers would have been able to get at the Oda forces behind the barricades was by going around, and Nobunaga had smartly placed his fiercest troops, led by some of his best commanders, on the wings. Any charge against that position would have been halted by the barricades, forced to ride to either end while drawing fire from the gunners and, if they were close enough, spears being thrust at them through the barricades; then, when whatever cavalry managed to make it through that reached the end of the fence, they'd be running into the toughest troops the Oda and Tokugawa could field, likely before they'd have a chance to set up for another charge. Add in the more than 2-to-1 numerical advantage the Oda-Tokugawa forces enjoyed, and I could see the Takeda forces, already frustrated by the siege and unsettled by the previous night's raid that killed one of their commanders, rapidly becoming disorganized and overwhelmed when their go-to tactic was so expertly stymied, especially if those gunners who, again, were specifically chosen to be the best marksmen available, were targeting commanders as much as possible. Something else to take into account is Katsuyori, the Takeda daimyo calling the shots, and who specifically ordered the charge; while he was a fairly accomplished commander, he was certainly no Shingen, and he seems to have had a bit of a chip on his shoulder. Again, he was pretty much baited into it; the way the Oda were positioned put them in pretty much the best possible place for a charge to run through them, if not for those barricades, and, as I mentioned, he likely thought the earlier rain had rendered a significant portion of the Oda troops defenseless. Add in a dash of overconfidence from his taking of Takatenjin the previous year (something even his father failed to pull off), and his growing frustration with how stubbornly the Tokugawa garrison was holding out, and a rash decision that plays directly into his enemy's hands is understandable. And with the bulk of his forces committed to the debacle going on at the barricades, even the weakened defenders from the castle sallying forth turns things into a deadly pincer. So yes, between tactics specifically devised to hamstring their preferred methods, a general not up to the task, and simple numbers (again, the Oda-Tokugawa forces numbered 38,000, a thousand of which were gunners, while the Takeda only fielded 15,000), I do think it makes sense that the loss was so devastating, even without the use of volley fire.
Dark Awake looks absolutely sick, a shame the West missed out on it, I think it could have found an audience. The character designs are awesome and the item system seems pretty cool. Also, a wild Pikamee appears.
You can still purchase it on the PS3 store if you make a Japanese account. I bought it as soon as I saw the GuileWinQuote video about it. It's a real blast to play with a wide variety of fun characters to choose from.
I don't usually like pre-rendered 3D graphics but that first game (whatever it's called) actually looks pretty nice. Unlike most other attempts it actually looks created by people with some artistic talent and understanding of colour.
Japan always keep the good ones to themselves. These fighting games are so awesome to play. Maybe Japan thinks that we won’t be able to play these games fighting mechanics,but looking at Matts play through just shows that everybody can play these games.
I love the modern age of games where you can make a video titled "the fighting games we weren't allowed to play," where the main contents of the video is just the person who made it being like "well screw you I'm going to play them anyway because fightcade."
I know there's always some guy out there that's like "That's my favorite game!" no matter how obscure or bad the game is, but you really wonder if that guy exists for D-Xhird.
I’ve played tons of heavens gate! My home boy Wayne is a huge tech nerd so he modded his video game consoles back in the 90’s to play over sea’s games to play over here in the states! It was crazy to be a black kid in America playing video games and watching & reading anime not very many people can say they’ve done that.
man, sengoku basara needs to come back. utage and sumeragi are easily the best musous. i hate the fact that this series got locked away in japan, and got fated to rot in there. even the mobile game and the spin off anime based off the highschool yonkomas werent enough to save it. i wanna see date kicking ass again, and voiced by dante too, like in western vanilla 3
I love that Sengoku BASARA actually gives more depth to the gameplay especially from SB3 onwards than your average musou, but sadly Capcom being Crapcom and the producer himself already left Capcom this year so revival would be unlikely.
Saw the title and thought "This is definitely going to feature Thrill Kill." But if you want a fighting game based on one of the greatest novels of the 19th century, Arm Joe might be your best option. It might be your only option, in fact.
The copyright on Heaven's Gate says 1996 that's one year before the Heaven's Gate cult... ended. Not sure how long localization took so _possibly_ a contributing factor in not sending it over?
D-Xhird felt like Battle Arena Toshinden to me. And the green bar reminded me of Soul Blade/Soul Edge, where your weapons had a healthbar and if it ran out, you broke your weapons and could only use basic punches, good luck winning like that :D
didn't see it mentioned in the comments, but I think Heaven's Gate has different final bosses based on your alignment (some chars are "angel" and some are "devil/demon")
I loved the era of random fighters you didn't hear about rolling through. Could use more of em. Walk around beat em ups and tournament fighters both. I'd love to see even more obscure ones here on flophouse.
That’s what I love about the genres. Sooooo many titles came out for this genre i feel like it’s impossible to know them all. And while some are great and some are bad, they’re all playable and have something unique to them unlike other genres.
Matt, I love Sengoku Basara! Didn't know about the fighting game, not surprised either. They do have an anime and some movies too. It is historical, just exaggerated as all hell. More colorful and appealing with larger than life personalities. I find Samurai/Dynasty Warriors boring by contrast. Masamune has 6 swords.
@ 1:04:55 Wow the saturn is actually pulling off an amazing transparency effect with that cloth looking backround! its not that usual crosshatch looking crap transparency devs always used y'all know what i mean
Sengoku Basara X is always my go-to for recommending ArcSys to be tasked by Capcom to make a new Darkstalkers game due to previous history together (and I’d prefer Guilty Gear Vs Darkstalkers). Turns out ArcSys worked with Capcom way back in 1990 for Codename: VIPER, a fun action piece for the NES. So yeah, they’re rivals but there is professional history together.
When it comes to obscure janky unlocalized fighters (at least in NA), the first thing that comes to my mind is Zero Divide 2. That game's existence is a disturbing fever dream to me.
How do i get myself just stuck watching McMuscles playing fighting games? Hilarious... Please do Mortal Kombat Mugen vids! They are the absolute most hilarious!
I clicked on this thinking it'd be about fighting games your parents didn't let you play for one reason or another, and stories about how you got around that, or got them to relent. Which would probably make for an interesting, though probably short, Triple KO episode.
I remember seeing second hand copies of Yusha as a kid (i'm in NZ). It actually looks pretty polished compared to other lesser known 3D PS1 fighters of the time, also reminds me a bit of Taito's Fighters' Impact
13:50 there's a mod or rom hack for Street Fighter 3rd Strike called Street Fighter 3: 4th Strike which gives Alex a rekka from flash chop, it's pretty fun to use you can play it in Fightcade 2 👀
Funny thing, I distinctly remember an arcade having a Heaven's Gate cabinet when I was 13 or so. I guess it must have been an import, since it didn't even have the European title mentioned here, but I distinctly remember seeing it here in an arcade Stateside. The name stuck out to me at the time; maybe it clicked with my vague memory of hearing about the cult of the same name committing mass suicide on the news (which later fed into my fascination with cults and true crime). I didn't play it at the time; it just didn't really grab my attention beyond the name seeming odd. I probably just lumped it in with all the other 3D fighters that were trying to make a splash in arcades at the time. My brother did pop some quarters in on that visit, though, so I'll have to ask him if he even recalls it at all.
Nobunaga's portrayal of using a gun is matchlock rifle sometimes called an arquebus given that Nobunaga was well-known for being quick to embrace them as frequently used weapons in his army. There is often a misconception that other Samurai and Daimyo were slow to embrace the usage of such weaponry, but that's actually not true. Nobunaga however was one of the quickest and also made it a key weapon so you could argue his use of the weapon in his forces explains why he is specifically associated with it in various portrayals of him in different media.
Maybe the further westernization of those two members of the main team is a result of the original release catching on due to its western look and feel? That kind of aesthetic used to be a bit more "exotic" to Japanese audiences (I think that's why Dragon Quest caught on so well?) but I'm not sure if it was still like that by the time this game came out.
Low Fantasy is just when the supernatural stuff is rare and unusual in-universe. I think you are thinking of Magical Realism. This could be either depending on the plot. (Tho the intro implies high-fantasy).
@@Painocus not too strict at all, that’s what it is. High fantasy takes place in a fictional world where magic etc are the norm, Low fantasy takes place in a world similar to our own where it is not. High and low referring to the amount of fantasy present in the setting. Difference between standard Low Fantasy and Magical Realism is that in the latter the general populace are more aware of the fantastical in their otherwise normal world And how is you saying “supernatural stuff is rare and unusual in universe” any different to me saying “magical shit happens in a normal world”? I just boiled it down to make it a little more succinct, figured it being rare and unusual didn’t need to be said with the setting being a normal world and all…
@@deadpool3982 Because the world does not have to be similar to ours. That's what would make it Magical Realism. The setting could be fully fictional, potentially even alien, and still be low fantasy.
Arcade's are extremely rare In my country, I dont know why, but that Sengoku Basara was in one I visited year's ago. It was probably my favorite there.
Heaven's Gate and D-Xhird! Aaaye! You'd get more of the plot if you let the it run through the intro stuff. There's a bonus one that 'explains' Boy's problems lol I might be more forgiving to this game. Dark awake looks so cool, I will have to give that one a shot for sure. Sengoku Basara X is so interesting that there was an arc game for Capcom.
Matt, the more barbaric versions are the versions of the prototype, which was named Dark Awake, when the game released on the arcades they changed the characters to the Guts and Blonde look, and changed the name to Chaos Breaker. Why the console got the name reverted, no idea, but imo it was a nice touch to give us the 2 sprite sets.
There's a few unreleased arcade Atari Games available on MAME, like Cyberstorm, Tenth Degree or Vicious Circle. And Primal Rage 2 but I couldn't make it work.
Honestly, with the state of Sengoku Basara today (the 15th anniversary release was A RE-RELEASE OF SUMERAGI, the same game that marked the 10th anniversary), I would be happy even with a visual novel based on Gakuen Basara
Lol Guts is in Chaosbreaker, and the opening narration sounds like it was written by Charlie Kelly. Also I would say it’s sword and sorcery, as opposed to High fantasy 😊
would be cool if dungeons and dragons by capcom was turned into a fighting game that you could even create a class and add item builds and different movesets
Does Dark Awake : 'The King with no name' have a secret unlockable shortcut to the final boss fight but while mounted upon a 'Horse With No Name' for a sick advantage! Like my music reference right there? :) Thank goodness this wasn't called the 'The Queen (or Empress) with no Clothes' otherwise you can kiss getting at least a T rating goodbye.
I almost hear Ghouls n Ghosts organ playing in the background of the match with Thiele (weird armor booba boss girl). Ooh...can you imagine if Dark Awake was developed by Capcom!?!
I would love to hear more about unreleased fighting games from you! Hell YES! I think the Neo Geo had two (Eye of the Typhoon & Warlock of the Fates), if I'm not mistaken. Maybe three.
I grew up in the north west of the UK and I remember one of our local arcades had a Heaven's Gate machine. Me and my friend pumped a lot of money into it! Are we 100% sure it wasn't released outside of Japan? Because it was all in English, with nothing to suggest it was an import.
Would love to see you check out the Ranma 1/2 fighting games! I remember a 2D one releasing for the SNES (I still have the Japanese cartridge, like new, complete in its original box), and a 3D one for the PS1 (never did get or play this one, but always wanted to).
The reason why Sengoku Basara X was ported to ps2 is because the arcade machine it was developed for is by all means just a ps2. While the game was developed by ASW for arcades, the port was made by Capcom, which amounted to basically just dump the game and add menus and the 2 extra chars. It is also why the sound is so compressed on the port.
Holy shit Dark Awake is basically Copyright Infringement The Fighting Edition. Hell I think every characters in that game are blatant knockoffs of other fantasy franchises, Guts from Berserk as the most obvious one. Reminds me of Rage of Dragons, but at least that game was supposed to be a Double Dragon homage (since they couldn't get the actual license).
sucks that Sengoku Basra was never as well known here in the states as dynasty warriors they're actually pretty fun looking games wish capcom would release them in English for steam or ps5.
This could be like the antitesis of The Worst Fighting Game, like instead of searching for the worst of the worst, it could be searching for the most obscure and literal hidden gems of the fighting game genre.
45:58
That would be Oichi. Nobunaga's sister.
In this series, she's super depressed and melancholy because she witnessed her husband get killed by his brother (typical warring state stuff) and she thinks everything is her fault.
She also comes back in Basara 3 (I think its 3? the one that came west) but all demonic possessed with all those shadowy hands and stuff, and then in one of her endings just sinks back into hell with Nobunaga, was pretty cool
“Go for the knees. Everyone’s most vulnerable body part. Everyone underestimates them, they don’t really appreciate their value…” -Matt McMuscles
“Be kind to your knees. You’ll miss them when they’re gone.” -Kurt Vonnegut
If you believe in telekinesis raise *my* hand
So you're telling me Taito can localize and release a version of Dino Rex but not Dark Awake? Even DR got on a physical PS2 collection lmao. This game looks cool!
Wish they would remake Wrath of Black Manta for modern consoles like that other developer did with Ninja Gaiden!
they'll be back in a compilation.
or one of those t.v. game type things.
@@StarDragonJP your mom's
not a taito game.
I’m pretty sure Dark Awake would’ve been too much trouble to bother with. They would’ve been sued a thousand ways from Sunday. The Dark Knight guy was essentially the Dark Knight from D&D’s cartoon, I’m not sure if D&D owns a copyright on Manticores, but I wouldn’t be surprised.
I'd be very surprised if they have a copyright on Manticores given their mythological basis, though maybe ones with dragon wings. @@shenanitims4006
Somewhere in the 14 minute you mention wishing the announcer was more bombastic which reminded me of something i've been wanting you or Max to do: Rate the announcers across ALL fighting games and pick like a top 10.
Kinnikuman Muscle Grand Prix 2. Easy front runner.
Okay so Dark Awake/Chaosbreaker looks awesome. I love the character designs.
I seriously thought it was an actual Golden Axe fighting game when I first saw it.
@@EmperorSeth I suspect that's the problem with the port. It seems to have straight ripped off designs from D&D, Golden Axe, and Warhammer.
@@bm1747 Psh, everyone rips off D&D and Warhammer. Golden Axe is original in its originality!
@@bm1747 i love me some warhammer fantasy. That orc looked like a straight propa git. Honestly warhammer should do a fighting game, I think it could be fun if they made it ridiculous
*"Dizzying heights and terrifying hoes."*
- Matt McMuscles, 2022
Absolutely love it! ♥
low fantasy means there are very limited exposure to magicks. High fantasy has magic/supernatural elements all over
Nobunaga having a gun is because historically he famously used matchlocks as part of his army.
Whereas every Japanese warrior back then was like old-school, he revolutionized Japanese warfare by basically going "Yo, guns are sick, let's use them!" and owned the battlefield.
Not really true, basically everyone was using guns at that point. Shingen was talking about it, and he dies before Nagashino, the big battle that really solidified the modern Japanese perception of the the tanegashima matchlock.
Nobunaga just got famous for it because of Japanese pop culture relating to that said Battle of Nagashino. Historians have found Nobunaga won more because of his fortifications, not his guns.
@@src175 Thank you for the correction!
@@src175 Just want to piggyback off of this and expand on it a bit, because it's a subject I am a HUGE NERD about. Yes, firearms were widespread in their use at the time of Nagashino; Chinese-made harquebuses were known and occasionally used prior to the introduction of European-style matchlocks in 1543, but the Portuguese-made weapons were far more reliable and effective, and were being put to use, copied, and even improved upon almost immediately. In addition to the factories at Tanegashima, they were produced in large quantities in Kunitomo and Sakai, and according to some of the sources I've read, often of better quality than what was readily available in Europe at the time; Kunitomo in particular was an important strategic consideration in Nobunaga's war with the Azai and Asakura, since it was in Azai territory.
Nagashino wasn't the first time firearms were used to break a cavalry charge (itself a recently-pioneered tactic in Japan), or even the first time the Takeda suffered a defeat thanks to them; Shingen himself, usually considered the most effective Takeda daimyo and arguably one of the greatest samurai commanders of all time, lost at Uedahara 1551 in no small part to the enemy's use of matchlocks. He'd clearly adapted by the time of Mikatagahara, though; Tokugawa Ieyasu seems to have thought that the firearms he had would prove decisive, but the lack of sustained fire on the Tokugawa's part coupled with Shingen rotating out his front lines with fresh troops sent the future shogun packing back to Hamamatsu.
The popular conception of Nagashino is that Nobunaga deployed his gunners in ranks and used volley fire to shred the charging Takeda cavalry, with barricades to protect the gunners and funnel the enemy past waiting spearmen; if true, this would have been revolutionary, and not just in Japan. Both volley fire with muskets and the intensive drilling and training required to actually pull that kind of coordinated tactic off wouldn't be employed in Europe until Maurice of Nassau's military reforms in the 1590s. This is why Nobunaga is so often associated with guns in popular media; not that he was the first to use them, but that he used them so effectively. As it turns out, though, the reports of volley fire being used at Nagashino appear not to have come until years after the fact; we can't say for sure whether Nobunaga used ranked volley fire or not, but considering the gunners were drawn from multiple liege lords and the drilling required to make the tactic work, it seems unlikely. We do know from Korean and Chinese sources that Japanese troops were using volley fire during the Korean invasions in the 1590s, so SOMEONE thought up the tactic at some point.
Firearms almost certainly did play an important role in the battle though, even if the relentless barrage of fire usually imagined didn't actually happen. Takeda Katsuyori chose to charge the Oda forces, in spite of a rainstorm earlier in the day turning the field between them to mud, which served to slow the horses; he may have expected the rain to have rendered the matchlocks useless, something that actually had cost Nobunaga at Nagashima a couple years prior. Between the mud and barricades slowing and diverting the charges, musket fire picking them off as they approached, and spears stabbing through the barricades as they passed, it was still a total meat grinder; the Takeda lost around 10,000 men (about 2/3 of their forces there), as well as an absurd number of experienced commanders, many of them members of Shingen's renowned 24 Generals. The Takeda managed to limp along for another seven years, but Nagashino was the blow that spelled the end for them.
For some reason I keep confusing this Nobunaga with a cannon toting Goemon. Must be because of ADK's Ninja Master's! Love that game btw.
@@MarquisLeary34 I'll preface this by saying that I am not an expert by any means, just a fairly enthusiastic amateur; I lack the facility with languages to read any primary sources, so I have to rely on second-hand translations and analysis by scholars who actually can examine those primary sources. And I'll admit that until recently I thought the triple ranked volley fire tactic was what was used and what turned the battle into such a disaster for the Takeda. After some more recent reading, though, I really do think that, yes, such an utter defeat is still plausible, even without the use of sustained volley fire.
As I mentioned, accounts of volley fire didn't come up until years after the battle, with more contemporary reports seeming to suggest that no such thing happened, and this makes sense to me because of a number of factors. First, there's the fact that the battle was fought to relieve the siege of the Tokugawa-controlled fortress there; it wasn't some carefully selected battlefield, it was a relatively hurried rescue of a garrison in peril. Nobunaga didn't seem to want to get involved at Nagashino at first; Ieyasu, his closest ally for years at that point, had to threaten to switch sides and serve as the Takeda vanguard to an invasion of Owari to get him to agree to assist.
Then there's the fact that, as I mentioned, the gunners were not a unit that had trained and drilled together, which would be necessary to develop the coordination to go through the rigorous process of firing and reloading in tandem with hundreds of others; Nobunaga instead asked his subordinates and allies for their best shots, who were then placed in three units under different commanders, one of whom was Honda Tadakatsu, Ieyasu's top commander, not an Oda retainer. This was not anything like a professional army; most of these men would have been conscripted farmers, not professional soldiers, and were serving under very different liege lords, some of whom weren't even technically subservient to Nobunaga. The idea that so many disparate troops could be quickly brought together and whipped into the kind of lockstep needed to perform sustained volley fire strains credulity. Still, gunners were clearly an important part of the plan; after all, a thousand matchlocks were deployed, but outside of perhaps an initial barrage, they were likely used as sharpshooters picking off horsemen as they crested the slope just in front of the fences, something to help whittle down the Takeda as they were forced to either end of the barricades.
While he may have initially been hesitant to make his big move at Nagashino, Nobunaga seems to have seen an opportunity and put what plans he'd been making into action. He'd clearly been considering how to break the Takeda's cavalry charges; after all, it was the tactic they were best known for. And the portable barricades would have certainly done that; a cavalry charge is useless against an entrenched enemy. Even without fortifications to hide behind, a charge will fail if the formation being charged doesn't break; cavalry charges rely on foot scattering and breaking to do their damage, which is why a disciplined wall of pikes stops them dead. The only way the Takeda lancers would have been able to get at the Oda forces behind the barricades was by going around, and Nobunaga had smartly placed his fiercest troops, led by some of his best commanders, on the wings. Any charge against that position would have been halted by the barricades, forced to ride to either end while drawing fire from the gunners and, if they were close enough, spears being thrust at them through the barricades; then, when whatever cavalry managed to make it through that reached the end of the fence, they'd be running into the toughest troops the Oda and Tokugawa could field, likely before they'd have a chance to set up for another charge. Add in the more than 2-to-1 numerical advantage the Oda-Tokugawa forces enjoyed, and I could see the Takeda forces, already frustrated by the siege and unsettled by the previous night's raid that killed one of their commanders, rapidly becoming disorganized and overwhelmed when their go-to tactic was so expertly stymied, especially if those gunners who, again, were specifically chosen to be the best marksmen available, were targeting commanders as much as possible.
Something else to take into account is Katsuyori, the Takeda daimyo calling the shots, and who specifically ordered the charge; while he was a fairly accomplished commander, he was certainly no Shingen, and he seems to have had a bit of a chip on his shoulder. Again, he was pretty much baited into it; the way the Oda were positioned put them in pretty much the best possible place for a charge to run through them, if not for those barricades, and, as I mentioned, he likely thought the earlier rain had rendered a significant portion of the Oda troops defenseless. Add in a dash of overconfidence from his taking of Takatenjin the previous year (something even his father failed to pull off), and his growing frustration with how stubbornly the Tokugawa garrison was holding out, and a rash decision that plays directly into his enemy's hands is understandable. And with the bulk of his forces committed to the debacle going on at the barricades, even the weakened defenders from the castle sallying forth turns things into a deadly pincer.
So yes, between tactics specifically devised to hamstring their preferred methods, a general not up to the task, and simple numbers (again, the Oda-Tokugawa forces numbered 38,000, a thousand of which were gunners, while the Takeda only fielded 15,000), I do think it makes sense that the loss was so devastating, even without the use of volley fire.
Dark Awake looks absolutely sick, a shame the West missed out on it, I think it could have found an audience. The character designs are awesome and the item system seems pretty cool.
Also, a wild Pikamee appears.
Fightcade might have it.
You can still purchase it on the PS3 store if you make a Japanese account. I bought it as soon as I saw the GuileWinQuote video about it. It's a real blast to play with a wide variety of fun characters to choose from.
Matt capping off his birthday weekend with a 75-minute look at fighting games that were never localized?
Sign me up!
I don't usually like pre-rendered 3D graphics but that first game (whatever it's called) actually looks pretty nice. Unlike most other attempts it actually looks created by people with some artistic talent and understanding of colour.
Japan always keep the good ones to themselves. These fighting games are so awesome to play. Maybe Japan thinks that we won’t be able to play these games fighting mechanics,but looking at Matts play through just shows that everybody can play these games.
...unable to play them until someone hooks up the PCB to a supergun and/or the ROMs are put into a compatible MAME build...
I love the modern age of games where you can make a video titled "the fighting games we weren't allowed to play," where the main contents of the video is just the person who made it being like "well screw you I'm going to play them anyway because fightcade."
I know there's always some guy out there that's like "That's my favorite game!" no matter how obscure or bad the game is, but you really wonder if that guy exists for D-Xhird.
Holy shit that guy from the first game is JUST pre-eclipse Guts, it's shameless.
I’ve played tons of heavens gate! My home boy Wayne is a huge tech nerd so he modded his video game consoles back in the 90’s to play over sea’s games to play over here in the states! It was crazy to be a black kid in America playing video games and watching & reading anime not very many people can say they’ve done that.
man, sengoku basara needs to come back. utage and sumeragi are easily the best musous. i hate the fact that this series got locked away in japan, and got fated to rot in there. even the mobile game and the spin off anime based off the highschool yonkomas werent enough to save it. i wanna see date kicking ass again, and voiced by dante too, like in western vanilla 3
I love that Sengoku BASARA actually gives more depth to the gameplay especially from SB3 onwards than your average musou, but sadly Capcom being Crapcom and the producer himself already left Capcom this year so revival would be unlikely.
@@basurama555 as long as they still get itsuno to work on it, like with 3, its fine
I appreciate the editor for always putting pictures of everything Matt talks about that I never heard of
I love Dark Awake. I've played it a bit on my channel after seeing it on Twitter and jumping through hoops to get the Japanese PS3 version.
Man I want all of these classic fighters released on steam. I'd buy them all instantly, as most of my library is fighters 50+
Saw the title and thought "This is definitely going to feature Thrill Kill."
But if you want a fighting game based on one of the greatest novels of the 19th century, Arm Joe might be your best option. It might be your only option, in fact.
that so needs to return one day.
picture thrill kill with today's graphics?
The copyright on Heaven's Gate says 1996 that's one year before the Heaven's Gate cult... ended. Not sure how long localization took so _possibly_ a contributing factor in not sending it over?
I remember seeing Chaos Breaker being talked about on TFG, I think? I really want to play it though!
Have you ever played Deadly Arts on the 64?
Dark Awake is badass, thank you for making me aware of it! It's really something special.
D-Xhird felt like Battle Arena Toshinden to me. And the green bar reminded me of Soul Blade/Soul Edge, where your weapons had a healthbar and if it ran out, you broke your weapons and could only use basic punches, good luck winning like that :D
I'm guessing D stands for _"Do Am Winning"_ because mistranslation are a winrar?
didn't see it mentioned in the comments, but I think Heaven's Gate has different final bosses based on your alignment (some chars are "angel" and some are "devil/demon")
I loved the era of random fighters you didn't hear about rolling through. Could use more of em. Walk around beat em ups and tournament fighters both.
I'd love to see even more obscure ones here on flophouse.
That’s what I love about the genres. Sooooo many titles came out for this genre i feel like it’s impossible to know them all. And while some are great and some are bad, they’re all playable and have something unique to them unlike other genres.
Matt, I love Sengoku Basara! Didn't know about the fighting game, not surprised either. They do have an anime and some movies too. It is historical, just exaggerated as all hell. More colorful and appealing with larger than life personalities. I find Samurai/Dynasty Warriors boring by contrast. Masamune has 6 swords.
And his horse has motorbike parts on for.....reasons? (also his gratuitous engrish "get your guns on!")
@@RiyohaHime Comparing him to a motorbike gang leader.
@ 1:04:55 Wow the saturn is actually pulling off an amazing transparency effect with that cloth looking backround! its not that usual crosshatch looking crap transparency devs always used y'all know what i mean
"who the fuck be the king"... I'm dead🤣🤣🤣 consider me slain good sir. Fatality ☠️
Sengoku Basara X is always my go-to for recommending ArcSys to be tasked by Capcom to make a new Darkstalkers game due to previous history together (and I’d prefer Guilty Gear Vs Darkstalkers). Turns out ArcSys worked with Capcom way back in 1990 for Codename: VIPER, a fun action piece for the NES. So yeah, they’re rivals but there is professional history together.
ChaosBreakers feels like the bastard baby of Berserk and Warhammer fantasy
When it comes to obscure janky unlocalized fighters (at least in NA), the first thing that comes to my mind is Zero Divide 2. That game's existence is a disturbing fever dream to me.
You rock Matt, love these multi game videos and the new information parts are excellent.
Just went and grabbed Dark Awake. It's definitely a trip.
How do i get myself just stuck watching McMuscles playing fighting games? Hilarious... Please do Mortal Kombat Mugen vids! They are the absolute most hilarious!
I clicked on this thinking it'd be about fighting games your parents didn't let you play for one reason or another, and stories about how you got around that, or got them to relent. Which would probably make for an interesting, though probably short, Triple KO episode.
31:00 We have finally found her... SASA LELE
Dark Awake looked amazing. You wanna play that again, I'm here
I remember seeing second hand copies of Yusha as a kid (i'm in NZ). It actually looks pretty polished compared to other lesser known 3D PS1 fighters of the time, also reminds me a bit of Taito's Fighters' Impact
I can think of a reason why Heaven's Gate never made it to america... just drink this Kool-Aid.
Pretty sure it’s high fantasy, more fantastical element and like other species like dwarves makes it high fantasy I think
13:50 there's a mod or rom hack for Street Fighter 3rd Strike called Street Fighter 3: 4th Strike which gives Alex a rekka from flash chop, it's pretty fun to use you can play it in Fightcade 2 👀
Okay, Sandra from Dark Awake/Chaos Breaker I swear is Cassandra/Sophitia from the Soul Series.
Love me some Dark Awake, glad to see someone else feature it! Great video!
20:50 Shadow Struggle and Critical Blow are FANTASTIC. Just letting you know in advance.
Now I need a Dark Awake full remake. THE KING HAS NO NAME.
I feel like the term, "Lightning Legs," sounds like the polar opposite of the phrase, "Thunder Thighs." Is it just me? :P
Given the amount of magic and weird creatures, I'd say high fantasy. The magicker it is, the higher it goes.
First video I've seen of yours and immediately subscribed! Great content. Love the commentary. Keep it up! 🤗
D-Xhird="mom, can we have Toshinden?"
"We have Toshinden at home!"
Toshinden at home...
Funny thing, I distinctly remember an arcade having a Heaven's Gate cabinet when I was 13 or so. I guess it must have been an import, since it didn't even have the European title mentioned here, but I distinctly remember seeing it here in an arcade Stateside. The name stuck out to me at the time; maybe it clicked with my vague memory of hearing about the cult of the same name committing mass suicide on the news (which later fed into my fascination with cults and true crime). I didn't play it at the time; it just didn't really grab my attention beyond the name seeming odd. I probably just lumped it in with all the other 3D fighters that were trying to make a splash in arcades at the time. My brother did pop some quarters in on that visit, though, so I'll have to ask him if he even recalls it at all.
I can see the Heaven's Gate game having problems in the US because people would be thinking of the Heaven's Gate cult stuff.
Nobunaga's portrayal of using a gun is matchlock rifle sometimes called an arquebus given that Nobunaga was well-known for being quick to embrace them as frequently used weapons in his army. There is often a misconception that other Samurai and Daimyo were slow to embrace the usage of such weaponry, but that's actually not true. Nobunaga however was one of the quickest and also made it a key weapon so you could argue his use of the weapon in his forces explains why he is specifically associated with it in various portrayals of him in different media.
to be fair, some western-made fighting game such as mortal kombat since mk4, and original killer instinct isn't released in japan
AND I AM JAPANESE!!
They stopped releasing MK in Japan?
Real shame that no basara characters made it to any mvc games
Maybe the further westernization of those two members of the main team is a result of the original release catching on due to its western look and feel? That kind of aesthetic used to be a bit more "exotic" to Japanese audiences (I think that's why Dragon Quest caught on so well?) but I'm not sure if it was still like that by the time this game came out.
It’s high fantasy, low fantasy is when magical shit happens in a normal world
Low Fantasy is just when the supernatural stuff is rare and unusual in-universe. I think you are thinking of Magical Realism. This could be either depending on the plot. (Tho the intro implies high-fantasy).
@@Painocus so is the supernatural and magic not rare or unusual in the normal world?
Magical realism is a sub-genre of low fantasy
@@deadpool3982 Yeah. I was saying you definition was too strict, not that what you said didn't fit under Low Fantasy.
@@Painocus not too strict at all, that’s what it is. High fantasy takes place in a fictional world where magic etc are the norm, Low fantasy takes place in a world similar to our own where it is not.
High and low referring to the amount of fantasy present in the setting.
Difference between standard Low Fantasy and Magical Realism is that in the latter the general populace are more aware of the fantastical in their otherwise normal world
And how is you saying “supernatural stuff is rare and unusual in universe” any different to me saying “magical shit happens in a normal world”? I just boiled it down to make it a little more succinct, figured it being rare and unusual didn’t need to be said with the setting being a normal world and all…
@@deadpool3982 Because the world does not have to be similar to ours. That's what would make it Magical Realism. The setting could be fully fictional, potentially even alien, and still be low fantasy.
Arcade's are extremely rare In my country, I dont know why, but that Sengoku Basara was in one I visited year's ago. It was probably my favorite there.
Heaven's Gate and D-Xhird! Aaaye!
You'd get more of the plot if you let the it run through the intro stuff. There's a bonus one that 'explains' Boy's problems lol I might be more forgiving to this game.
Dark awake looks so cool, I will have to give that one a shot for sure. Sengoku Basara X is so interesting that there was an arc game for Capcom.
Matt, the more barbaric versions are the versions of the prototype, which was named Dark Awake, when the game released on the arcades they changed the characters to the Guts and Blonde look, and changed the name to Chaos Breaker.
Why the console got the name reverted, no idea, but imo it was a nice touch to give us the 2 sprite sets.
I actually got to play these games. They were alot of fun. These games are hidden gems among tons of fighting games. Great job on the video.
Dark Awake/Chaos Breaker looks so fucking cool, I need a modern HD port now
Damn, that first game had a Manticore as a mini boss, and the Dark Elf Mara was a mindflayer doppelgänger. Sign me up!
There's a few unreleased arcade Atari Games available on MAME, like Cyberstorm, Tenth Degree or Vicious Circle. And Primal Rage 2 but I couldn't make it work.
So Basara cross is a fighting game w the cast of Samurai Warriors? awesome
Nice editing choice using Soki's theme from Onimusha Dawn of Dreams for the Sengoku Basara X game
Really really great episode
Oh yeah, I'd love to see if you can get Daemon Bride to work! It's such a cool game that's been stuck in arcade hell.
Fina and Japanese Sandra from Dark Awake/Chaos Breaker be FINE!
Have you ever covered Evil Zone (or Ihadurka in Japanese)? I love that game, very nostalgic for me :)
All of them Deserves a Re-Released under the ACA Line.
Honestly, with the state of Sengoku Basara today (the 15th anniversary release was A RE-RELEASE OF SUMERAGI, the same game that marked the 10th anniversary), I would be happy even with a visual novel based on Gakuen Basara
Knights of the Temple: Infernal Crusade do I think is a fighting game and is pal exclusive, so an episode with pal exclusives could be fun..!
Lol Guts is in Chaosbreaker, and the opening narration sounds like it was written by Charlie Kelly. Also I would say it’s sword and sorcery, as opposed to High fantasy 😊
I mean, yeah. of course nobunaga has a gun. he's pretty famous for his gunpowder tactics.... probably wasn't double barreled though XD
yeah keep the series going is amazing
Wow i haven't heard of any of these. They're super cool looking especially Dark Awake.
would be cool if dungeons and dragons by capcom was turned into a fighting game that you could even create a class and add item builds and different movesets
“Purple skeleton man, what the hell is that?” Says the blue skeleton man😂😂
Dark awake is awesome. I guess there is Dragon dogma and From soft these days but 90s 00s japanese D&D, sword and sorcery was so simple and cool.
Been waiting for this 😈
1:00:39 Nice reference do Saint Seiya.
Does Dark Awake : 'The King with no name' have a secret unlockable shortcut to the final boss fight but while mounted upon a 'Horse With No Name' for a sick advantage! Like my music reference right there? :)
Thank goodness this wasn't called the 'The Queen (or Empress) with no Clothes' otherwise you can kiss getting at least a T rating goodbye.
-Fina dummy thicc though. Wouldn't see me complaini-
I almost hear Ghouls n Ghosts organ playing in the background of the match with Thiele (weird armor booba boss girl). Ooh...can you imagine if Dark Awake was developed by Capcom!?!
I would love to hear more about unreleased fighting games from you! Hell YES!
I think the Neo Geo had two (Eye of the Typhoon & Warlock of the Fates), if I'm not mistaken. Maybe three.
Would love to see an Updated Grapplers Video with Sengoku, Rivals Schools, etc
I grew up in the north west of the UK and I remember one of our local arcades had a Heaven's Gate machine. Me and my friend pumped a lot of money into it! Are we 100% sure it wasn't released outside of Japan? Because it was all in English, with nothing to suggest it was an import.
Would love to see you check out the Ranma 1/2 fighting games! I remember a 2D one releasing for the SNES (I still have the Japanese cartridge, like new, complete in its original box), and a 3D one for the PS1 (never did get or play this one, but always wanted to).
I remember playing Sengoku Basara X with a buddy who somehow got a hold of it (we couldnt read any of the Japanese, but we tried the game out).
A single Saint Seiya reference. Video is 10/10
I think Eolith also made The Crystal of Kings, a seriously underrated beat 'em up. I'm seeing lots of similarities between that and Chaos Breaker.
The reason why Sengoku Basara X was ported to ps2 is because the arcade machine it was developed for is by all means just a ps2.
While the game was developed by ASW for arcades, the port was made by Capcom, which amounted to basically just dump the game and add menus and the 2 extra chars.
It is also why the sound is so compressed on the port.
Curse Head is literally just D&D's War Duke and those sure look like Warhammer specific Orks...
I'm here waiting already for part 2 and have Matt playing Gokuu Densetsu - Magic Beast Warriors
Holy shit Dark Awake is basically Copyright Infringement The Fighting Edition. Hell I think every characters in that game are blatant knockoffs of other fantasy franchises, Guts from Berserk as the most obvious one. Reminds me of Rage of Dragons, but at least that game was supposed to be a Double Dragon homage (since they couldn't get the actual license).
I thought I was the only human who missed snowboard kids :)
sucks that Sengoku Basra was never as well known here in the states as dynasty warriors they're actually pretty fun looking games wish capcom would release them in English for steam or ps5.