I have come to realize that when Luke hates a game, I will properly like it ;) (Terraforming Mars, Concordia, Great Western Trail, Lorenzo and Castles of Burgundy are among my top games). But still, I can differently see why he doesn't like them, and it really shows the diversity of game preference we see in the hobby.
@@TheBrokenMeeple With that being said, I do agree on Barrage, Age of Steam, Brass, Gloomhaven ;). And we both seems to be fans of games like Anachrony, Scythe, Energy Empire, Nations, Viticulture, Dominion and Five tribes :)
On the other hand for me Scythe is suuuuper boring while Barrage is extremely interesting and interactive. The theme is much more interesting in Scythe, which is why I'm sad it's not a more interactive game. :(
I appreciate videos like this more than many channels or reviewers that universally praise everything, or are terrified to say a negative thing out of fear. I agree with some like Concordia and TM, disagree with several (Castles, Gloomhaven, GWT, Orleans, Marco Polo) but despite having different tastes, still enjoyed the video! As I was watching I thought you might say Viticulture as it seems to hit lists like this.
Respect! This is what I like to see - someone who respects all opinions whether agree or disagree. You're the polar opposite of a comment I had to hide/ban where they just basically took the time to attack me personally for no reason. It's good to get viewers like you that make the channel worth the effort. :-) As for Viticulture, yeah I see it hit lists, but it's in my collection, I really enjoy it!
The groupthink in boardgames groups gets on my nerves too. I have witnessed people asking for games for little kids and several replies suggesting Scythe or Gloomhaven. It sucks the will to interact out of me completely, when all the people would talk about is the same 2-3 games until the new hotness comes out then rinse and repeat.
Well, there is My Little Scythe, so that's probably tailored towards kids, as i wouldn't touch something named that with a pole. So they probably meant that.
Don't forget to mention the kids pics in the images section of games with a heavy rating of 3,5/5 ..... I wanna see the board people, not your "brilliant ass whooping" kids :p
I really like this video...finally someone has echoed the points I have always made. Castle of Burgandy, Brass Birmingham, Gloomhaven, Terraforming Mars, and Great Western Trail all have such high spots in the rankings and I cannot figure out why. They are either too heavy/complicated for most (Gloomhaven), too dry (Castle of Burgundy, Great Western Trail), too similar to other games (Brass Birmingham, and/or too ugly (Castles of Burgandy). The only game on this list I actually like is Concordia and I agree with you insofar that it is too overhyped but I still think it is good. You mentioned other thematic euros instead of Concordia, you have examples? Great topic and list.
I love Terraforming Mars. I don't find luck has much bearing on it at all. We have around 10 regular players in our gaming group and nearly every game of TM is won by 2 of us. They're are so many ways to score points that you can adjust your play style based on the cards you get and win consistently. The AP issue is massive though, and my solution is not to play it with a couple of the guys in our group because they take too long. But the rest of our group are pretty quick so that isn't a major problem for us.
The people complaining about TM being luck based don't understand how engine builders work, or better should I say, how to play them well. Pro Tip #57 and 58... Play (combo) with what you are given and dont try to force shit that you just dont have. Don't spread yourself too thin, but calculated risks can pay dividens, especially if it is something being neglected by the rest of the table.
"I can't do anything in two rooms before I get fully exhausted? What kind of adventurers are you?!?!?" THIS. This was my primary complaint with Gloomhaven. I hate games with artificial time constraints like this. It totally takes me out of the experience when I can't even take one step to the side to pick up a coin for fear of running out of stamina. I mean, I get it if the building in question is on fire, but otherwise, are you kidding me? And Mage Knight may have the worst instruction manual in the history of gaming.
@stenobro True...but he is one of my favorites. I'm mid-weight strategy point-salad fanatic. And that so happens to be his wheel-house. However, Pfister is currently rising the ranks...
- Brass Birmingham feels much better than Lancaster to me, and I see them as very different games--there's a lot more ability to sell finished goods in Birmingham, it's somewhat harder to *completely* screw yourself over, and there are plenty of other refinements and tweaks. The mechanical differences are almost on par with Terra Mystica and Gaia Project. And Manufactured Goods are viable! You have to use develop actions to get past the levels that don't do what you need at the time, though. On the other hand, pottery appears to suck almost as much as shipyards did in Lancaster. - I liked Gloomhaven well enough the one time I played it, but I cannot imagine thinking it's the best game of all time. Pretty good dungeon crawler, though. - The Steam: Rails to Riches app was fun for a dozen plays or so. Spending 3 to 4 hours playing the physical game, let alone 5 or 6 hours for an 18xx, wouldn't appeal to me at all, though. - Terraforming Mars is just kind of boring. It's insanely long for what it is, the engine you're building mostly just moves cubes from lower to higher numbers, and of course the components and aesthetics are miles from even being average. - GWT: Your opinion is wrong ;)
Shipyards, I loved them in Lancashire! With the MG's you have to make that extra effort to get to those stages which takes time and money. The other easier paths don't have that setback .
Agreed. I went for the shipyard strategy last time in Lancashire (I kept drawing all the industry cards for them and little else) almost managed to get three of them out over the course of the game, but still ended up in 3rd place. Noticed that 2(!) of the 3 locations are completely useless in the canal era, because it's impossible to supply the coal required for construction. In the end I was absolutely crushed by the player that went for the cotton and mills. Maybe shipyards could be viable due to the low competition, but in that game I sure wasn't able to make them work for me.
@@TheBrokenMeeple You do have to invest in development, but the ability to manipulate things like beer requirements and connection values makes up for it. I've had some really strong games with the goods.
Although I disagree with a lot (and I mean a LOT) of your top 10 choices, I do respect the passion you put in your thoughts. Keep up the good work m8 and never lose your spirits. Cheers from Portugal
That's what I like to hear - respect for opinions regardless of what they are. :-) I wouldn't want everyone to just follow my choices to the letter, the diversity in this hobby is what makes it interesting.
Gloomhaven / Frosthaven not at all what it could have been if not for the puzzle of the hand management. What? I don't get to pick up the loot without wasting a card that can exhaust me before room 3? Nor can my party share gold? I don't think about the adventure or the dungeon crawl when playing, but more about will I make it to the end of the scenario? I was never immersed playing this. I purchased Gloomhaven, but did not back Frosthaven.
I tried Gloomhaven and I thought I must have been doing something wrong, because the battle mechanics seemed to me like they wouldn't have survived playtesting. Having to choose between selecting the top or the bottom part of a card is perfectly fine, gives you a decision for each card, but the whole thing about having to discard the actions and then lose the scenario because thematically the characters are so exhausted that they collapse on the way? It's ridiculous. I don't know how it's rated so high beyond the amount of scenario content it has, and the guilt of the people who spent so much money for it.
I agree on your analysis of the objective aspects of Mage Knight (like how much the game is mechanics versus theme), but I don't have the same opinion. I like the "puzzle" aspect of it so much, that I never feel the three hours passing. And to lose it never feels unsatifying. A matter of opinion, of course.
With the single exception of Barrage, which I have not played, I could not disagree with your list more. I love your videos, and will continue watching faithfully, because none of these were a surprise. I have come to a realization though, the same realization I came to while watching Zee Garcia's videos, that if you like a game, there is a 90% chance I will like that game. But if you don't like a game, I can't rely on that as any kind of accurate indication that I will not like that game. Seriously, thank you for having strong opinions, and putting out great content.
90% chance if i like you like, but 0% if i dislike you dislike...........not sure how that works logically. :P Also Zee likes fun games and knows not everything has to be 3-4 hours long! :P
suggestions for top ten: ten best games to play when you are tired. Whether the last game of the night or one of the players is just too tired to be "in it" but still wants to play. These games should also be of a calibre that someone with a concussion doesn't risk injury.
Hi Luke, I love love love your videos! This one was hilarious. Castles of Burgundy and Terraforming Mars are among my favorite games, but I really enjoyed your ranting.
I tend to agree with Luke on several of these game. I'm not a fan of Concordia, Mage Knight, and Barrage. I'm also not as big on Terraforming Mars as most of the people in my gaming group. I do think the game can overstay its welcome unless played with 2 or 3 players. Of these games, the only one I enjoy playing quite often is Lorenzo ll Magnifico. I still haven't played Castles of Burgundy, but I've never been of fan of games by Stefan Feld. I always enjoy hearing the reasons why board gamers either like or dislike certain games. Thanks for the video, Luke!!
I'm sorry but this list was mind blowing 😂 and Barrage is AMAZING, besides the very odd Worden mixers and excavators those belong in On Mars or soemthing.
As always greatly enjoy your videos. And this was super entertaining. Can’t agree with some but taste is personal. Personally the games I can’t stand include Blood Rage, Through the Ages, Root and especially Gloomhaven. Gloomhaven reminds me of the old BSD Unix game of Rogue but without the ability to get in and out quickly. It requires commitment that it simply doesn’t deserve. I’m sure if someone is a big RPG fan this would be great for them but for me it’s an atrocious waste of time.
In a way I do agree with some of your points around terraforming mars. It is long and can be pretty luck based. There are a few things that I do when playing the game to address certain issues. 1. I have only played 2 player so that speeds up the game. 2. I think there is a modification in the rules of one of the expansions that each generation you add a heat, water, or oxygen to the board. Whoever is the start player picks which one to increase at the end of their turn. 3. I don’t remember which expansion it was that gave you a starting set of resources and or power and I have to play with that in order get going faster in the first age. 4. I believe in the beginner game you don’t pay for your cards in the initial draft and it has been a while, but I believe I played it that way in order to again speed up the game. 5. This is a personal preference, but we remove all take that cards from the game. All in all with the above tweaks we can get through a game in a little over 60 minutes which is about right for this game as well as removing the cards that would mess with someone. To me take that cards only belong in games with very little to no luck. If you have take that cards and a fair bit of randomness it can really swing the game around and really take the fun out of it.
The big problem with the ranking for subsequent editions and versions of a game is that people that didn't like the previous version won't play the new one so won't rate it, and people that liked the previous version will usually like the update and rate it highly. So the versions don't get a balanced rating.
The 2nd Edition of Great Western Trail (coming out this year) has dual layered boards which Luke mentioned as a complaint. I am not a GWT fan, I don’t own the game and have never played it, but thought I would mention it. I think GWT 2nd Ed. will also feature alternate versions featuring a New Zealand map and an Argentina map.
I think you can buy third party overlays as well for the first edition. I'm sure the second edition will have improvements to the production but it's not going to make the game fun.
I found myself laughing out loud today as I saw another group of guys on RUclips announce their top 5 games and most of the ones that you listed in this video were on their list...lol Fairly new to gaming and was looking for a worker placement game...leaning towards Viticulture.
Check out Everdell. It is not strictly a worker placement game as it also contains some other elements (like tableau building). It is dripping with theme and has a lot of replay value and even a solo mode. Overall it may check several boxes if you are just getting into gaming
Viticulture is a realy good game imo. Also a theme you can play with a lot of different types of people. And if you like the game really think about getting the expansion Tuscany. It adds a lot to the game
Dennis A, in all seriousness, Viticulture is quite grand for a first worker placement game. If that intimidates you, I’d go with Century New World or Stoneage.
I own Gloomhaven and Mage Knight but I do enjoy these for the puzzle they put in front of you! But for theme purpose there is so many other dungeon crawls I would rather play! The game I agree with you the most is GWT, I played this once and I was like what's so good about this game! I hated the deck of cows! I am not a train fan also but I do have to say I love Colt Express! Breathe Luke Breathe!
Gloomhaven is one of my two favorite games and definitely my most played (finished 75 scenarios and failed some so probably 85ish plays so far) but as soon as you called it a Euro and not a dungeon crawl it made a lot of sense. Love Euros and this is the only dungeon game I like. Terraforming Mars has been a new favorite but I do agree with you on the luck of the draw bit, even while drafting.
@The Broken Meeple I've got to try it out first, but that appears to be the way the community is feeling. It may end up replacing TM on BGG this year for the highest ranked game with... "unique" artwork. 😄
Not everything is better with beer and I’m a gin man anyway, so it figures that I prefer Brass Lancashire over Birmingham. Thank you for recognizing the succes of Brass by including it on this list. Though I feel the two Brass games are different enough they each deserve their own spot on your list, so I’m a bit bummed you didn’t have them as number 4 AND number 3. :/ And then maybe the original Brass from TreeFrog Games at 5.... you see, you could have had Brass 3 times on your list. Sincerely, a Brass fanboy.
Great video don't agree with all of the choices but thats normal😊 ( specialy GWT 😜) but my nr 3 games of 2019 are Wingspan terramarra and it's a wonderfull world Keep it up luke 👍
You and I have some different tastes I believe on certain games. There are many games you have shown before that I have enjoyed but you picked some games that I really enjoy to call overrated. I would imagine it is that theme matters much more to you than me. I would put Concordia in one of my top 10 favorites and have been playing it at least once a week. GWT is also a game I really enjoy and Pfister is probably currently my favorite designer. I like Lorenzo il Magnifico but can understand some of your criticism. I backed Frosthaven as I like Gloomhaven but don't own it so it seemed like a good way to get in on the newer version. Finally I find Brass to be amazing in either version. It could also be top 10 for me. I really enjoyed watching your video. The good thing is after watching it and knowing the difference in our tastes I will be picking up Castles of Burgandy 😉
At last, someone said it about Brass! It's number the 3 on BGG now but who cares? If I wanted to became an accountant, I would become one and get paid for it, not play it in a board game for "fun"... Great video btw! I think you only have the guts to do these for those "well loved games", so can you do one with the most boring themes? I don't think anyone ever done it (maybe there is such a vid in Dice Tower) but I can't stand another train themed game, trading in the Med or strategy game with Romans vs X historic nation.
I understand that your #8 isn't for everyone but I will argue that the mechanics are the most thematic of any game I own. I too love me some Runebound, Descent and other 'thematic' games-and they make up the majoroty of my personal Top 10. But your #8, and it's highly thematic mechanics, is still the king for me 🙂 That all said, I TOTALLY AGREE with your #3!!! 👍
when you played Barrage, probably you played with people that weren't able to play it at all. It's a really punishing game, when you learn to play it. You have to do more than a single game of it. This is the reason why it is climbing on bgg. People are playing it, and learning how deep and well balanced it is.
Played it enough times prob 4 or so and that's with both new and vet players - plenty enough to know if I hate the game or not. I know you're trying to find that loophole somewhere, everyone does! :P And the game is climbing because it's had wider distribution now, the last part is subjective.
Castles of Burgundy is generally fun, but the rest is pretty bad. I play Gloomhaven from time to time, but I don't understand how people like it so much. It is unique, but it is also frustrating to get to the table and terribly slow in progression.
Every game on here is deserving of this list. Everything you say about Gloomhaven and Terraforming mars hits home. I want to know what your favorite dungeon crawls are.
I like this video a lot. Its an opinion of someone who adores the hobby and knows a lot about it. Lucky that we don’t live in a world where we all think the same 😁. I haven’t played many games on this list. Agree with balancing issue of terraforming mars - was disappointed with gloomhaven ( I fell for the hype) . Mage Knight is one of my most loved games - I believe the level of strategy as well as the whole graph world that unfolds are thematic enough you don’t need “a story”. Ps : I don’t buy into the hype of wingspan ..... I tried 4 times .... I don’t like the game. Peace ✌️
Someone gets it! :-) Thankfully 90% of watchers do get it. The other 10% on Facebook groups do like to make themselves known however, but they're all stuck in their tiny bubbles unable to accept anyone being critical over anything.
Although I find some of these choices baffling, fair play to you for unapologetically putting the video out. I completely understand how someone could not enjoy a game like Concordia, but I'm surprised you can't find the objective qualities of the game. For me there are only a handful of games that are objectively brilliant designs, Concordia is one of them. All the best :)
Hmmm man. I like your channel very much even though we don t have the same preferences in the boardgames, but this is very healthy, isn’t it? But I can t even describe how much me and my friends we disagree about what you said about two of the games you consider overrated. Mage knight, and brass. Come on man... Mage Kingston is a pioneer for strategy game and so, but so so thematic. And brass.... What can I say about brass. Wallace is a genius. Every time we play we know it will be a deep, fun, mind blowing 2 hour piece of our life... Thanks anyway for your effort...
Disagreement is fine. Its not trying to convert people, just get people talking. 👍 And its healthy enough for those who enjoy watching a guy give his views, after all, we all like different games. 😉
No criticisms, actually a few I absolutely agree with. But a few of them...Castles, Brass and (yes) Concordia are some of my favorites (though you are dead on with one particular cover and one specific scoring track). Two I agree with are Gloomhaven and Mage Knight. But I don’t care for “adventures” in board game form generally. For the cost, the set up, the and amount of rules, the resulting payoff is less exciting than the most buggy, poorly plotted video game. For that type of exploratory immersion I’d also opt for the video game.
I can see your point on train games, but I like the theme. My question is, though, what's the difference between games of any other genre? A dungeon crawl is a dungeon crawl. A tile placement area control game is a tile placement area control game. A trump taking card game is a trump taking card game. Any genre can be boiled down to one or two mechanics. It's the extra, unique differences that make games stand out. Russian Rails is a train game with unique mechanics. 18xx games are not really train games, they're stock market games. If the focus of a 'train' game is not on rail system design and pickup/deliver, it's not a train game, it's a game with a train theme.
I would love to see a playthrough of Terraforming Mars plus all the expansions with Luke and four other very AP prone players. Comedy gold...or potential crime scene ;-)
Lol, love the like/dislike ratio. You don't like a game I love, instant dislike! Ah well others understand that it's different strokes for different folks. ;-)
I agree with you about the list except with Brass and Concordia. Brass Birmingham it's totally different from Lancashire, I really love Birmingham and Lancashire it's a ok game with a lot punishing. In Birmingham every game it's different because you randomise the market tiles; you can mitigate the lucky on card drafting with the scout action; and also I saw someone won the game with the manufactories, so... About Concordia, it's a easy and clever game with a deep strategy behind the cards you buy, and you have some map expansions with new rules, like Creta/Aegyptus maps.
Really enjoyed this list, Luke! Sorry to hear some people couldn't handle having a different opinion. Question for you about Lorenzo - if I'm not mistaken, you do enjoy Coimbra? I really like Coimbra and was thinking that Lorenzo was similar but have never played it. I was going to pick Lorenzo up if it's in the same vein, but your comments made me think that it's probably not?
Many are afraid to say bad things about any games. Not I - someone in this industry has to be honest. Don't forget to watch the live stream update to this!
Enjoying the rants but cotton in Brass Lancashire can net you an absolute ton of points. Especially if you manage to build multiple mills and sell to a port with one action (4 instant flips is a huge swing in income and points). Also I find that strategically placed canal/rail links can be another excellent source of points.
Thank you for making this video. It's good to understand what reviewers dislike so that you can can tell if their tastes align with yours. Based on this, I know not to ever watch another of your reviews, because we are so widely divergent in tastes. Thanks again!
There's more to reviews than just the verdict at the end. Plus if you want constant positive verdicts except to be controversial there's always SUSD ;-) We all like different games in the end, but I still watch channels where I know we differ to hear what they have to say. Plus I don't accept there's nothing in the collection you wouldn't enjoy. Clearly if you love these games, you're fine with themeless games or heavier titles. Pulsar 2849 is in the other room and there's a ton of Lacerda/Mindclash heavies behind me. Failing that, it won't be long before my Shelf by Shelf videos hit my Rosenberg pile.
😂 I love it when you get mad because people post pictures of games you despise. I feel you, Luke. I am also surprised that some titles from this list get so much love.
Sounds like you're letting your reality bubble become the "new facts". :) TI is getting played, just not in the social circles who think Scythe and Wingspan are great games.
We finally get our first print of GWT 2nd ed. here, long after 1st one's prices of secondhand copies skyrocketed, since it's been missing on the market. I was thinking, whether I should get it or not. I am seeing everyone say GET IT, GET IT, IT'S THE BEST, yet somehow whenever I see the board, I feel that it might be not for me. Finally someone says that it might not be as good. :D I have to find some gameplay to finally decide if I want to get it or not. I had similar issue with mentioned Paladins of WK, which I skipped in the end.
Very entertaining and well-elaborated reasons, even though it would be hard to disagree more with your list. 4 of them in my top 10 favorites, another 4 that I enjoy, and 2 I haven't played. Even the (dis)honorable mention was opposite; I didn't like Architects of the West Kingdom, then hesitantly played Paladins and found it to be leagues better than Architects. Although I will say that a game on your shelf - Rajas of the Ganges - does the dice placement way better than Burgundy and Lorenzo. It's good to hear different and rational opinions, so I'm glad this video popped up in my recommendations.
Then again, Power Grid was my favorite game for longest time so I just think we have different tastes in Euros. Out of curiosity, if you could have a collection of nothing more than all games developed (or co-developed) by a single designer, who would it be? Would you go for a designer who gave you more of the same thing you really enjoy or one who offers great variety across themes/mechanics? Or am I suggesting a new future top 10 topic???
Comments: 10. Castles of Burgundy - So what if it's dry? Is the game broken mechanically? Is it too lucky? This is an overrated list, if you see why people like it why is it here? 9. Haven't played, but you made good points 8. Mage Knight is Number 2 this year (as voted by solo game group). So what if it's Euro puzzle? All the best games are. Tell me something objective as you did with numbers 9, 7. Rule book is awful. 7. Good points 6. Again good points (apart from Artwork - it does not a good game make) 5. I agree, but I don't like trains so cannot say it's overrated. And what is the problem there mechanically? 4. Totally agree! The same game should not be ranked twice! I haaaaate that! 3. Do you want to know why it's number 1? Because it appeals to both Euro Gamers and Ameritrash gamersIt's a Dungeon Crawler Euro gamers have been wanting all their lives. Agree that FH shouldn't be nominated for any awards (apart from expansion). But again no mechanical faults with the game. PS. Insulting people by calling them sheep for liking a game you don't is not cool! 2. Good points apart from it being convoluted. 1. You have good points. Apart from convoluted - Concordia is not convoluted in the slightest. PS. There are extra rules on some of the maps. And I haven't seen all the love for it.
I normally agree with you, but about Brass, I can't. The mechanics are great! The two era's feel great. The first player mechanic is really nice, your cards can be used for everything which I like. It's an awesome economic simulation type game. It could be that you don't like that type of game, but if you do this is the best one out there. I think that's the reason it's so high. Don't get me wrong, I can imagine people not liking this game, but that's mostly because of their taste more than about the quality of the game. One more thing, I think it's not too bad when you get behind. This game is a lot shorter than most heavy games. When you know this game you can play it within an hour to an hour and a half. Ofcourse, it's just my opinion! btw I still loved the video, I do agree with some of them! Keep up the good work!
I totally agree with Luke on Concordia. I played it 5-6 times with the Salsa expansion and it was just sooooo damn dry. Trading in the Mediterranean is my least favorite theme. The mechanisms were nice but I couldn’t get past the theme.
If some of those games were re-themed, and artwork changed accordingly to something that suits you more, while maintaining the exact same gameplay mechanics, would you still consider those games overrated?
Hey Luke, off topic question: have you every played Unmatched? It's been on my mind lately and when I saw your video title I thought maybe it was on this list. Do you know it?
I periodically look at the BGG ratings to try and find the next game to buy. I keep looking at Castles of Burgundy because of its rating, I watch a few review videos and a play through and always get to the same point - why? I can't see why this game gets so much love. I keep looking into this game and can't figure out why I'd like it.
I'm the same, a games on the list feel that way. I keep thinking I should own them due to the hype, but I feel I would not like them. After this video I'm glad I did not buy them.
Since you touched on the Golden Geek Awards subject (to mention Paladins of the West Kingdom mostly), allow me to get one thing off my chest: Tapestry 3rd best game released in 2019? A game so controversial and which most reviewers gave lukewarm reviews to? I mean, wow, that's what vote brigading does, I guess...
What you got wrong: - Castles of Burgundy get over the theme and let the mechanics wash over you. The simplicity of the game with tight decisions make this a very interesting game. Not *MY* favorite Feld (that's Roma), but it is in my top ten of all games. - Mage Knight. I think the rules complexity is the thing that hurts this game the most (and the four day set up time). But once you can play the game in under an hour, it's strategic depth is so delicious, but unfortunately tight. I really feel bad that you can't see the brilliance of this design. - Terraforming Mars my only problem with this game is the play length, but prelude does a good job of fixing that. I've never experienced the "luck factor" or pain you've described. But never play it with more with 3 people. I like it best at two. - Age of Steam....okay on this one, yeah. it isn't pretty. But it isn't just another train game, IMHO it is the BEST train game. (and I HATE train games). The thing about this one is that it is engineering tolerance tight. You can literally lose the game on the first turn. but once you learn how not to do that, the game is very intellectually rewarding. - Gloomhaven I haven't played it but I do want to comment on your statement "you can't make it three rooms?" Have you ever worn armor and fought someone with a weapon (even a rattan weapon would be hefty enough for simulation). I have, full chainmail with a blunted longsword. I was pretty in shape when I did it, but I couldn't fight more than maybe fifteen twenty minutes before I was exhausted. Armor can weigh up to 100-150 pounds and my sword weighed about 25 pounds. That's a lot of weight to be handling while doing a stressful activity. I HIGHLY AGREE with your "double game ranking on bgg" comment. You shouldn't be allowed to vote twice on the same game. I haven't played Brass, but I would make an exception for games like Ticket to Ride where each map changes the game just enough to make in different. There are maps I hate, and maps I LOVE. In fact, the best example of why you need to be able to vote on different "editions" is a game you likely haven't played, Cat and Chocolate and the re-implement Texas Zombies. The rules to both games are identical, but the theme makes Texas Zombies practically unplayable, where Cat and Chocolate is a sublime story telling puzzle solving game. War of the Ring, Twilight Imperium and Through the Ages are the biggest offenders IMHO.
Castles doesn't have anything to draw me in though - place a die, grab tokens, that's not enough without a theme. TM has some really unbalanced cards in there that I've seen literally swing games for people. MK is just too much of a puzzle game and not a thematic dungeon crawler. One other comment on here agreed it has no story and that just kills it stone dead - don't make it a fantasy adventure game with no story. With AOE, i can't understand how a game that takes 2-3 hours is fun if you can lose on the first turn making the rest of the game redundant. It's the same though that Splotter use, hence why I hate their games! :P
A list like this is useful because players need some help in narrowing down where there should focus their attention in the sea of games out there. In general, I only play about once a week and buy about 10 games a year. There is a fairly high overhead of time to learn a new game; it's not like watching a movie. My time and money are limited, and I want a good chance of a pay off for the investment. It's interesting that Luke generally confirmed my impressions about several games that seemed to be "must haves" when I got into the hobby about a year ago. I've held off on C of B (the reprint that still looks bad didn't help), Gloomhaven, Brass, and Concordia. I'm pretty sure I won't miss them.
Just recently I began to appreciate and play a lot of Ticket To Ride. I love it but I must admit that I never thought of Europe just as an expansion of USA. Very interesting video. Thank you :-)
Both options I dislike! :-) However you're not going to defend #10 and #2 and #1 for having solid strong themes are you? And I actually don't mind the theme of #2.
@@TheBrokenMeeple haha only 10. When people say "I'm going to have a sheep empire" there is a theme. concordia I make jokes about the lack of Romans and revolts to be fair lol
I have a few of the games you have mentioned in your critique including Gloomhaven and I agree pretty much with everything you say.😉 Gloomhaven is a good game, but it does not deserve ALL the hype and praise it receives, I enjoy other games far more. You missed a game off your list though, Wingspan, good game? Yes, but is it that good? No, massively overrated.
I think Wing is a very solid game overall, I enjoy it each time and it's one of those games that is approachable by all kinds of players with a nice theme and simple rules. Such a game would deserve the praise.
It's on the agenda given that I need to instruct the vocal minority that I do love games still! 😜 Plus the last one I did was made at the same time as this, so it's due an update.
The amount of salt applied to your hatred of Terraforming Mars gives me absolute life .. Glad I'm not the only one who was bored out of my skull on that one... And I won.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Looking forward to it. Maybe we just aren't "those" kind of gamers. I love me a good engine builder, but it's got to play fast or I die inside.
OK over half of this list are among my favourite games. And I don't like any of the games on your top 10 of all time list except 7WD. Maybe I should start following your channel just to find out what games you DON'T like so I can get them lol
In MRP it's tied to role selection, everyone has the cards to begin with and the same cards as each other. There's room to gauge what's going to get played. With Concordia, there isn't, however it's not that part I don't like, it's the fact that the cards themselves are tied to scoring with some being far more powerful than others. Who's winning the game with 1 VP for every 10 cash vs simply building in every region? And no-one can buy my Pilot to mess me over, but they can buy all my Vp for goods cards I was after.
Started off good. 10. COB: 100% correct. Well said 9. LIM: right on..... 5. Train games!!!!!! Add in ticket to ride and you are a god..... 4. Brass: you killed my Sacred Cow here. I Love this game soo much. I'll have to work to forgive you.... 3. Gloomhaven. You said it soo well. But this should be #1. If it would have been #1 I would have had to cancel my Boardgame Ramblings Patron and switch over. Almost!! 😄
Top 10 Exceptions to the Rule is fun - games you shouldn't like but do, mechanics/themes that shouldn't work, a designer you typically don't like, etc.
I am not going to bash on you for any of your opinions no way. I appreiciate the content!! Only thing is when you criticized GWT about not being like a typical western I had a chuckle. I live in the western U.S. and my family were pioneers. Most of what went on here was ranching like seen in GWT and KC was the hotspot for distrubution to the West. Movies love to paint the west as wild, but that was actually short lived. Most people were cattle ranchers and dairy farmers! My family in particular came to Oregon and started a lumber enterprise near the coast.
Definitely a movie perception issue! 😜 Though I don't really watch westerns either. For me Western Legends and Carson City fill my Western vibe in games.
After buying Ticket to Ride early in my collection, I have never had any desire to buy another train game. They all look the same and the one I have is at least really accessible and I can play it with my kids.
I'm not a diehard Feld-fan but I do enjoy In The Year of the Dragon. It's a nice point salad, with multiple paths to victory, and some painful decision making which I like. The theme is pretty thin but the game is still fun for me.
I am going to buy The Castles of Burgundy but you are right it's themeless. I'm also receiving, The Crown of Emara. I would be interested in seeing you do a review. If you have please direct me to it. I am also liking mechanics more but you are right theme draws you in. I think mechanics are more of a hardcore gamer thing.
Except I do like good mechanics, heavy ones as well, but the theme has to make me want to come back for a 2nd go. Mechanics alone aren't enough to escape reality in a board game. A strong theme can forgive small mechanical issues. I've played Crown of Emara, but didn't do a review. The game mechanically is fine. No issues with it. But it just felt like another Euro game, no theme at all so it just fades into the background.
Did a quick scan of the list, but will watch later. Personally, I think Scythe and Wingspan are massively overrated. They’re so popular, but I’ve played them and I’m always just left wondering why they are.
I love them both - now as much as Scythe I can understand, I feel that Wingspan is just tailor made to work with a wide variety of people, not just hardcore gamers. That kind of approachable play deserves credit and I find it fun each time.
CoB, Mage Knight, Great Western Trail - Played once or twice and don't hate but never felt the need to own. If nothing else is on offer on a game night I wouldn't be adverse to playing Terraforming Mars - My partner loves this while it's a 7/10 for me, with Prelude. The only other expansion I'll choose to play with are the other maps. But after hearing what sort of play times you're getting I'm not surprised you hate it. We tend to look at 90 minutes with 3 players but have had a couple of 5 player games that have dragged out. Barrage, Gloomhaven - Not my types of game. Age of Steam, Brass - I'm a Wallace fan, you're wrong, I'm happy to move on :) Although I do dislike the new editions. AoS is blandness personified and Brass is borderline unplayable in anything other than perfect light. Along with pointless player boards that increase the footprint of the game and the awful Iron Clay chips that don't stack like real poker chips should. Concordia - Your top pick is also mine. I hate this game with a fiery passion. And it's made worse that I'm the only one in the group that does. So it's in constant rotation
😂 love when you get fired up! Like you say, they’re only games. Anyone that takes it personally takes games way too seriously! Castles - I shouldn’t like it but I do... the simple dice placement and instant reward is very satisfying. TM - agreed.... like the game but it needs prelude and fewer players. And the components need to be better. Feel about the same about the rest. I think 7th continent is the most overrated game in the top 50 on bgg. “Let’s spend 10 hours exploring who knows what to get to the end and fail”. So fun!
Let's see: I disagree with you on: CoB, TMars, Barrage, Brass (though I agree a bit with Brass: Birmingham), GWT, and Concordia. And I agree about Lorenzo. The rest I haven't played. So basically for the future I'll take a really good look at any games you dislike to get some recommendations! :D Then again I mostly don't care about theme: good mechanisms + bad theme usually means good enough for me; interesting theme + mediocre/bad mechanisms I'll never touch. And if anyone tries to play "thematically" in a eurogame with me (not to see if the strategy works, but because they feel it's beautiful to play that way), I would probably never play euros with them again. I'm just not interested in that kind of interaction. Now, if you want to add some thematic play in games like Battlestar Galactica, that's great! But if someone complains that they can't win with cows in a GWT game when the setup just doesn't favor cows?! Yeah, no.
I have come to realize that when Luke hates a game, I will properly like it ;) (Terraforming Mars, Concordia, Great Western Trail, Lorenzo and Castles of Burgundy are among my top games). But still, I can differently see why he doesn't like them, and it really shows the diversity of game preference we see in the hobby.
Mission accomplished! :-)
@@TheBrokenMeeple With that being said, I do agree on Barrage, Age of Steam, Brass, Gloomhaven ;). And we both seems to be fans of games like Anachrony, Scythe, Energy Empire, Nations, Viticulture, Dominion and Five tribes :)
On the other hand for me Scythe is suuuuper boring while Barrage is extremely interesting and interactive. The theme is much more interesting in Scythe, which is why I'm sad it's not a more interactive game. :(
Agree with you... the deversity of game preference in this game is infinite!
I appreciate videos like this more than many channels or reviewers that universally praise everything, or are terrified to say a negative thing out of fear. I agree with some like Concordia and TM, disagree with several (Castles, Gloomhaven, GWT, Orleans, Marco Polo) but despite having different tastes, still enjoyed the video! As I was watching I thought you might say Viticulture as it seems to hit lists like this.
Respect! This is what I like to see - someone who respects all opinions whether agree or disagree. You're the polar opposite of a comment I had to hide/ban where they just basically took the time to attack me personally for no reason. It's good to get viewers like you that make the channel worth the effort. :-)
As for Viticulture, yeah I see it hit lists, but it's in my collection, I really enjoy it!
The groupthink in boardgames groups gets on my nerves too. I have witnessed people asking for games for little kids and several replies suggesting Scythe or Gloomhaven. It sucks the will to interact out of me completely, when all the people would talk about is the same 2-3 games until the new hotness comes out then rinse and repeat.
Well, there is My Little Scythe, so that's probably tailored towards kids, as i wouldn't touch something named that with a pole. So they probably meant that.
Don't forget to mention the kids pics in the images section of games with a heavy rating of 3,5/5
..... I wanna see the board people, not your "brilliant ass whooping" kids :p
This will henceforth be the "dire" video
I really like this video...finally someone has echoed the points I have always made. Castle of Burgandy, Brass Birmingham, Gloomhaven, Terraforming Mars, and Great Western Trail all have such high spots in the rankings and I cannot figure out why. They are either too heavy/complicated for most (Gloomhaven), too dry (Castle of Burgundy, Great Western Trail), too similar to other games (Brass Birmingham, and/or too ugly (Castles of Burgandy). The only game on this list I actually like is Concordia and I agree with you insofar that it is too overhyped but I still think it is good. You mentioned other thematic euros instead of Concordia, you have examples? Great topic and list.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Love that you always put timestamps in the description
Glad you like them!
Yes!!!! I was worried you had left Concordia off the list. Loving the sonic the hedgehog hair.
It's normally Sonic style but with it so long it's out of control!
I'll watch this later. Hope there is some love for Concordia.
So Conc is no 1 again 😆😆
Concordia is still my favorite game, but I love the hate you have for it.
I love Terraforming Mars. I don't find luck has much bearing on it at all. We have around 10 regular players in our gaming group and nearly every game of TM is won by 2 of us. They're are so many ways to score points that you can adjust your play style based on the cards you get and win consistently.
The AP issue is massive though, and my solution is not to play it with a couple of the guys in our group because they take too long. But the rest of our group are pretty quick so that isn't a major problem for us.
The people complaining about TM being luck based don't understand how engine builders work, or better should I say, how to play them well.
Pro Tip #57 and 58... Play (combo) with what you are given and dont try to force shit that you just dont have. Don't spread yourself too thin, but calculated risks can pay dividens, especially if it is something being neglected by the rest of the table.
"I can't do anything in two rooms before I get fully exhausted? What kind of adventurers are you?!?!?"
THIS. This was my primary complaint with Gloomhaven. I hate games with artificial time constraints like this. It totally takes me out of the experience when I can't even take one step to the side to pick up a coin for fear of running out of stamina. I mean, I get it if the building in question is on fire, but otherwise, are you kidding me?
And Mage Knight may have the worst instruction manual in the history of gaming.
Both very correct statements!
Me: oh this looks like a fun video. I’ll laugh at the games he offends.
#10 attacks Stefan Feld.
Me: where’s my pitchfork!
Hee hee, that was quick!
@stenobro True...but he is one of my favorites. I'm mid-weight strategy point-salad fanatic. And that so happens to be his wheel-house. However, Pfister is currently rising the ranks...
- Brass Birmingham feels much better than Lancaster to me, and I see them as very different games--there's a lot more ability to sell finished goods in Birmingham, it's somewhat harder to *completely* screw yourself over, and there are plenty of other refinements and tweaks. The mechanical differences are almost on par with Terra Mystica and Gaia Project. And Manufactured Goods are viable! You have to use develop actions to get past the levels that don't do what you need at the time, though. On the other hand, pottery appears to suck almost as much as shipyards did in Lancaster.
- I liked Gloomhaven well enough the one time I played it, but I cannot imagine thinking it's the best game of all time. Pretty good dungeon crawler, though.
- The Steam: Rails to Riches app was fun for a dozen plays or so. Spending 3 to 4 hours playing the physical game, let alone 5 or 6 hours for an 18xx, wouldn't appeal to me at all, though.
- Terraforming Mars is just kind of boring. It's insanely long for what it is, the engine you're building mostly just moves cubes from lower to higher numbers, and of course the components and aesthetics are miles from even being average.
- GWT: Your opinion is wrong ;)
Shipyards, I loved them in Lancashire! With the MG's you have to make that extra effort to get to those stages which takes time and money. The other easier paths don't have that setback .
Agreed. I went for the shipyard strategy last time in Lancashire (I kept drawing all the industry cards for them and little else) almost managed to get three of them out over the course of the game, but still ended up in 3rd place. Noticed that 2(!) of the 3 locations are completely useless in the canal era, because it's impossible to supply the coal required for construction. In the end I was absolutely crushed by the player that went for the cotton and mills. Maybe shipyards could be viable due to the low competition, but in that game I sure wasn't able to make them work for me.
@@TheBrokenMeeple You do have to invest in development, but the ability to manipulate things like beer requirements and connection values makes up for it. I've had some really strong games with the goods.
Although I disagree with a lot (and I mean a LOT) of your top 10 choices, I do respect the passion you put in your thoughts. Keep up the good work m8 and never lose your spirits. Cheers from Portugal
That's what I like to hear - respect for opinions regardless of what they are. :-) I wouldn't want everyone to just follow my choices to the letter, the diversity in this hobby is what makes it interesting.
You are so brave haha. I totally agree with Brass, really hate it. But I like Mage Knight as solo game and I love TR especially with prelude.
Brave yes, but I have to trust that the majority enjoy the opinions rather than take it seriously!
Gloomhaven / Frosthaven not at all what it could have been if not for the puzzle of the hand management. What? I don't get to pick up the loot without wasting a card that can exhaust me before room 3? Nor can my party share gold? I don't think about the adventure or the dungeon crawl when playing, but more about will I make it to the end of the scenario? I was never immersed playing this. I purchased Gloomhaven, but did not back Frosthaven.
I tried Gloomhaven and I thought I must have been doing something wrong, because the battle mechanics seemed to me like they wouldn't have survived playtesting. Having to choose between selecting the top or the bottom part of a card is perfectly fine, gives you a decision for each card, but the whole thing about having to discard the actions and then lose the scenario because thematically the characters are so exhausted that they collapse on the way? It's ridiculous. I don't know how it's rated so high beyond the amount of scenario content it has, and the guilt of the people who spent so much money for it.
I agree on your analysis of the objective aspects of Mage Knight (like how much the game is mechanics versus theme), but I don't have the same opinion. I like the "puzzle" aspect of it so much, that I never feel the three hours passing. And to lose it never feels unsatifying. A matter of opinion, of course.
With the single exception of Barrage, which I have not played, I could not disagree with your list more. I love your videos, and will continue watching faithfully, because none of these were a surprise. I have come to a realization though, the same realization I came to while watching Zee Garcia's videos, that if you like a game, there is a 90% chance I will like that game. But if you don't like a game, I can't rely on that as any kind of accurate indication that I will not like that game. Seriously, thank you for having strong opinions, and putting out great content.
90% chance if i like you like, but 0% if i dislike you dislike...........not sure how that works logically. :P Also Zee likes fun games and knows not everything has to be 3-4 hours long! :P
@@TheBrokenMeeple Well, not zero. It's just not a good indicator.
suggestions for top ten: ten best games to play when you are tired. Whether the last game of the night or one of the players is just too tired to be "in it" but still wants to play. These games should also be of a calibre that someone with a concussion doesn't risk injury.
Thanks for another fun list Luke, but there is one thing I need to clear up and that is what do you really think of Barrage?
:P
@@TheBrokenMeeple rofl
Hi Luke, I love love love your videos! This one was hilarious. Castles of Burgundy and Terraforming Mars are among my favorite games, but I really enjoyed your ranting.
Awesome, thank you!!
I tend to agree with Luke on several of these game. I'm not a fan of Concordia, Mage Knight, and Barrage. I'm also not as big on Terraforming Mars as most of the people in my gaming group. I do think the game can overstay its welcome unless played with 2 or 3 players. Of these games, the only one I enjoy playing quite often is Lorenzo ll Magnifico. I still haven't played Castles of Burgundy, but I've never been of fan of games by Stefan Feld.
I always enjoy hearing the reasons why board gamers either like or dislike certain games. Thanks for the video, Luke!!
I'm sorry but this list was mind blowing 😂 and Barrage is AMAZING, besides the very odd Worden mixers and excavators those belong in On Mars or soemthing.
Space invaders!! :P
As always greatly enjoy your videos. And this was super entertaining. Can’t agree with some but taste is personal.
Personally the games I can’t stand include Blood Rage, Through the Ages, Root and especially Gloomhaven. Gloomhaven reminds me of the old BSD Unix game of Rogue but without the ability to get in and out quickly. It requires commitment that it simply doesn’t deserve. I’m sure if someone is a big RPG fan this would be great for them but for me it’s an atrocious waste of time.
Ouch, this video hurts :-) Now we need those underrated games that people hate and that you love! :-)
It wasn't on the cards, but that was only Dec 2017 also.............so i guess that could use an update.
In a way I do agree with some of your points around terraforming mars. It is long and can be pretty luck based. There are a few things that I do when playing the game to address certain issues. 1. I have only played 2 player so that speeds up the game. 2. I think there is a modification in the rules of one of the expansions that each generation you add a heat, water, or oxygen to the board. Whoever is the start player picks which one to increase at the end of their turn. 3. I don’t remember which expansion it was that gave you a starting set of resources and or power and I have to play with that in order get going faster in the first age. 4. I believe in the beginner game you don’t pay for your cards in the initial draft and it has been a while, but I believe I played it that way in order to again speed up the game. 5. This is a personal preference, but we remove all take that cards from the game. All in all with the above tweaks we can get through a game in a little over 60 minutes which is about right for this game as well as removing the cards that would mess with someone. To me take that cards only belong in games with very little to no luck. If you have take that cards and a fair bit of randomness it can really swing the game around and really take the fun out of it.
The big problem with the ranking for subsequent editions and versions of a game is that people that didn't like the previous version won't play the new one so won't rate it, and people that liked the previous version will usually like the update and rate it highly. So the versions don't get a balanced rating.
I clicked Like at number 9 only to find out number 8 is my favorite game of all time Mage Knight🤦♂️
.... oh well: great video anyway 😁
The 2nd Edition of Great Western Trail (coming out this year) has dual layered boards which Luke mentioned as a complaint. I am not a GWT fan, I don’t own the game and have never played it, but thought I would mention it. I think GWT 2nd Ed. will also feature alternate versions featuring a New Zealand map and an Argentina map.
I think you can buy third party overlays as well for the first edition. I'm sure the second edition will have improvements to the production but it's not going to make the game fun.
@@TheBrokenMeeple - LIke putting lipstick on a pig?
I found myself laughing out loud today as I saw another group of guys on RUclips announce their top 5 games and most of the ones that you listed in this video were on their list...lol Fairly new to gaming and was looking for a worker placement game...leaning towards Viticulture.
Try Great Western Trail first. 😉😁🤯
Check out Everdell. It is not strictly a worker placement game as it also contains some other elements (like tableau building). It is dripping with theme and has a lot of replay value and even a solo mode. Overall it may check several boxes if you are just getting into gaming
Viticulture is a realy good game imo. Also a theme you can play with a lot of different types of people. And if you like the game really think about getting the expansion Tuscany. It adds a lot to the game
Dennis A, in all seriousness, Viticulture is quite grand for a first worker placement game. If that intimidates you, I’d go with Century New World or Stoneage.
@@richarddegraaf2687 Thanks. I went ahead and bought Viticulture and the Tuscany expansion based on Luke's past videos.
I own Gloomhaven and Mage Knight but I do enjoy these for the puzzle they put in front of you! But for theme purpose there is so many other dungeon crawls I would rather play! The game I agree with you the most is GWT, I played this once and I was like what's so good about this game! I hated the deck of cows! I am not a train fan also but I do have to say I love Colt Express! Breathe Luke Breathe!
Ha ha! Train game fans would have your head for including Colt Express in there!
Gloomhaven is one of my two favorite games and definitely my most played (finished 75 scenarios and failed some so probably 85ish plays so far) but as soon as you called it a Euro and not a dungeon crawl it made a lot of sense. Love Euros and this is the only dungeon game I like. Terraforming Mars has been a new favorite but I do agree with you on the luck of the draw bit, even while drafting.
Solid video. Have you considered a 10 games to start a collection with video or how to start a collection on a budget?
Check out my Top 10 Essential Games list I did recently which would satisfy your first option. :-)
Mage Knight is King :) Definitely not for everyone, I admit, but I quite love it.
I really love Concordia and TM is my favorite game... but the AP issues you brought up are definitely not unfounded!
Has Ark Nova not killed TM? ;-)
@The Broken Meeple I've got to try it out first, but that appears to be the way the community is feeling. It may end up replacing TM on BGG this year for the highest ranked game with... "unique" artwork. 😄
I love terraforming mars but im biased for hard sci-fi theme lol
Not everything is better with beer and I’m a gin man anyway, so it figures that I prefer Brass Lancashire over Birmingham. Thank you for recognizing the succes of Brass by including it on this list. Though I feel the two Brass games are different enough they each deserve their own spot on your list, so I’m a bit bummed you didn’t have them as number 4 AND number 3. :/
And then maybe the original Brass from TreeFrog Games at 5.... you see, you could have had Brass 3 times on your list.
Sincerely, a Brass fanboy.
Great video don't agree with all of the choices but thats normal😊 ( specialy GWT 😜) but my nr 3 games of 2019 are
Wingspan terramarra and it's a wonderfull world
Keep it up luke 👍
Thanks for sharing!!
I love Castles of Burgundy but I'm with you with the other 9. Will not spend a dime for them.
You and I have some different tastes I believe on certain games. There are many games you have shown before that I have enjoyed but you picked some games that I really enjoy to call overrated. I would imagine it is that theme matters much more to you than me.
I would put Concordia in one of my top 10 favorites and have been playing it at least once a week. GWT is also a game I really enjoy and Pfister is probably currently my favorite designer. I like Lorenzo il Magnifico but can understand some of your criticism. I backed Frosthaven as I like Gloomhaven but don't own it so it seemed like a good way to get in on the newer version. Finally I find Brass to be amazing in either version. It could also be top 10 for me.
I really enjoyed watching your video. The good thing is after watching it and knowing the difference in our tastes I will be picking up Castles of Burgandy 😉
At last, someone said it about Brass! It's number the 3 on BGG now but who cares? If I wanted to became an accountant, I would become one and get paid for it, not play it in a board game for "fun"...
Great video btw! I think you only have the guts to do these for those "well loved games", so can you do one with the most boring themes? I don't think anyone ever done it (maybe there is such a vid in Dice Tower) but I can't stand another train themed game, trading in the Med or strategy game with Romans vs X historic nation.
I'll see what I can drum up. I need to plan out how I'm doing top lists in the future as some will be video and some will be podcast.
I understand that your #8 isn't for everyone but I will argue that the mechanics are the most thematic of any game I own.
I too love me some Runebound, Descent and other 'thematic' games-and they make up the majoroty of my personal Top 10. But your #8, and it's highly thematic mechanics, is still the king for me 🙂
That all said, I TOTALLY AGREE with your #3!!! 👍
Mage friggin Knight. Well said!
when you played Barrage, probably you played with people that weren't able to play it at all. It's a really punishing game, when you learn to play it. You have to do more than a single game of it. This is the reason why it is climbing on bgg. People are playing it, and learning how deep and well balanced it is.
Played it enough times prob 4 or so and that's with both new and vet players - plenty enough to know if I hate the game or not. I know you're trying to find that loophole somewhere, everyone does! :P And the game is climbing because it's had wider distribution now, the last part is subjective.
Castles of Burgundy is generally fun, but the rest is pretty bad. I play Gloomhaven from time to time, but I don't understand how people like it so much. It is unique, but it is also frustrating to get to the table and terribly slow in progression.
Every game on here is deserving of this list. Everything you say about Gloomhaven and Terraforming mars hits home. I want to know what your favorite dungeon crawls are.
I like this video a lot. Its an opinion of someone who adores the hobby and knows a lot about it. Lucky that we don’t live in a world where we all think the same 😁. I haven’t played many games on this list. Agree with balancing issue of terraforming mars - was disappointed with gloomhaven ( I fell for the hype) . Mage Knight is one of my most loved games - I believe the level of strategy as well as the whole graph world that unfolds are thematic enough you don’t need “a story”. Ps : I don’t buy into the hype of wingspan ..... I tried 4 times .... I don’t like the game. Peace ✌️
Someone gets it! :-) Thankfully 90% of watchers do get it. The other 10% on Facebook groups do like to make themselves known however, but they're all stuck in their tiny bubbles unable to accept anyone being critical over anything.
top 10 overrated is by far my favorite format, good job
Although I find some of these choices baffling, fair play to you for unapologetically putting the video out. I completely understand how someone could not enjoy a game like Concordia, but I'm surprised you can't find the objective qualities of the game. For me there are only a handful of games that are objectively brilliant designs, Concordia is one of them. All the best :)
Ha ha respect, but yeah, nothings going to save Concordia for me! ;-) I got 200 objectively brilliant designs in the collection already! :-)
Hmmm man. I like your channel very much even though we don t have the same preferences in the boardgames, but this is very healthy, isn’t it? But I can t even describe how much me and my friends we disagree about what you said about two of the games you consider overrated. Mage knight, and brass. Come on man... Mage Kingston is a pioneer for strategy game and so, but so so thematic. And brass.... What can I say about brass. Wallace is a genius. Every time we play we know it will be a deep, fun, mind blowing 2 hour piece of our life... Thanks anyway for your effort...
Disagreement is fine. Its not trying to convert people, just get people talking. 👍 And its healthy enough for those who enjoy watching a guy give his views, after all, we all like different games. 😉
No criticisms, actually a few I absolutely agree with. But a few of them...Castles, Brass and (yes) Concordia are some of my favorites (though you are dead on with one particular cover and one specific scoring track).
Two I agree with are Gloomhaven and Mage Knight. But I don’t care for “adventures” in board game form generally. For the cost, the set up, the and amount of rules, the resulting payoff is less exciting than the most buggy, poorly plotted video game. For that type of exploratory immersion I’d also opt for the video game.
Mage Knight is one of my favourite solo games...even though I agree with pretty much every point you made about it. 😂
I can see your point on train games, but I like the theme. My question is, though, what's the difference between games of any other genre? A dungeon crawl is a dungeon crawl. A tile placement area control game is a tile placement area control game. A trump taking card game is a trump taking card game. Any genre can be boiled down to one or two mechanics. It's the extra, unique differences that make games stand out. Russian Rails is a train game with unique mechanics. 18xx games are not really train games, they're stock market games. If the focus of a 'train' game is not on rail system design and pickup/deliver, it's not a train game, it's a game with a train theme.
I would love to see a playthrough of Terraforming Mars plus all the expansions with Luke and four other very AP prone players. Comedy gold...or potential crime scene ;-)
Crime scene definitely! A large test of patience!
Lol, love the like/dislike ratio. You don't like a game I love, instant dislike! Ah well others understand that it's different strokes for different folks. ;-)
I agree with you about the list except with Brass and Concordia.
Brass Birmingham it's totally different from Lancashire, I really love Birmingham and Lancashire it's a ok game with a lot punishing. In Birmingham every game it's different because you randomise the market tiles; you can mitigate the lucky on card drafting with the scout action; and also I saw someone won the game with the manufactories, so...
About Concordia, it's a easy and clever game with a deep strategy behind the cards you buy, and you have some map expansions with new rules, like Creta/Aegyptus maps.
Those Pfister ninja cows really got to you huh? Ever considered seeing a therapist for your GWT cow PTSD?
Really enjoyed this list, Luke! Sorry to hear some people couldn't handle having a different opinion. Question for you about Lorenzo - if I'm not mistaken, you do enjoy Coimbra? I really like Coimbra and was thinking that Lorenzo was similar but have never played it. I was going to pick Lorenzo up if it's in the same vein, but your comments made me think that it's probably not?
I have Coimbra, and its a dry game but the card and dice mechanic is really engaging. A much better and less restrictive game then LORENZO.
I just knew that Concordia had to be up there. Kinda forgot how he hates Terraforming Mars and Castles of Burgundy.
Great video Luke. Don’t agree on all of this list but this was very entertaining all the same!
Glad you enjoyed regardless!
Love the independence of mind. Thanks for bringing real conviction to this video. Applause!
Many are afraid to say bad things about any games. Not I - someone in this industry has to be honest. Don't forget to watch the live stream update to this!
Enjoying the rants but cotton in Brass Lancashire can net you an absolute ton of points. Especially if you manage to build multiple mills and sell to a port with one action (4 instant flips is a huge swing in income and points). Also I find that strategically placed canal/rail links can be another excellent source of points.
Thank you for making this video. It's good to understand what reviewers dislike so that you can can tell if their tastes align with yours. Based on this, I know not to ever watch another of your reviews, because we are so widely divergent in tastes. Thanks again!
There’s a few channels where I feel the same. I still watch them knowing that if they don’t like the game it’s probably a good pick for me.
@@isaacraze4301 eh, there's enough review channels out there, I don't need one where the reviewer's tastes are so completely different than mine.
There's more to reviews than just the verdict at the end. Plus if you want constant positive verdicts except to be controversial there's always SUSD ;-) We all like different games in the end, but I still watch channels where I know we differ to hear what they have to say.
Plus I don't accept there's nothing in the collection you wouldn't enjoy. Clearly if you love these games, you're fine with themeless games or heavier titles. Pulsar 2849 is in the other room and there's a ton of Lacerda/Mindclash heavies behind me. Failing that, it won't be long before my Shelf by Shelf videos hit my Rosenberg pile.
😂 I love it when you get mad because people post pictures of games you despise.
I feel you, Luke. I am also surprised that some titles from this list get so much love.
Entertaining vid!! Don't agree about concordia though. Lol. The cover is the worst though.
I'm seeing Twilight Imperium 4e played reasonably regularly, and it's showing lasting power. Unlike a number of "hot releases of the year".
Can't recall the last game I saw of it. Partially because no-one has time to play it in any non-convention setting! :D
Sounds like you're letting your reality bubble become the "new facts". :) TI is getting played, just not in the social circles who think Scythe and Wingspan are great games.
We finally get our first print of GWT 2nd ed. here, long after 1st one's prices of secondhand copies skyrocketed, since it's been missing on the market. I was thinking, whether I should get it or not. I am seeing everyone say GET IT, GET IT, IT'S THE BEST, yet somehow whenever I see the board, I feel that it might be not for me. Finally someone says that it might not be as good. :D I have to find some gameplay to finally decide if I want to get it or not. I had similar issue with mentioned Paladins of WK, which I skipped in the end.
Even after all this time I stand by that GWT is overrated!
Very entertaining and well-elaborated reasons, even though it would be hard to disagree more with your list. 4 of them in my top 10 favorites, another 4 that I enjoy, and 2 I haven't played. Even the (dis)honorable mention was opposite; I didn't like Architects of the West Kingdom, then hesitantly played Paladins and found it to be leagues better than Architects. Although I will say that a game on your shelf - Rajas of the Ganges - does the dice placement way better than Burgundy and Lorenzo. It's good to hear different and rational opinions, so I'm glad this video popped up in my recommendations.
I'll pick a strong game mechanic over a strong theme every time. BTW, Barrage is one of my favorite games of all time! Thanks Luke.
Arrrghh Barrage! :P
Then again, Power Grid was my favorite game for longest time so I just think we have different tastes in Euros. Out of curiosity, if you could have a collection of nothing more than all games developed (or co-developed) by a single designer, who would it be? Would you go for a designer who gave you more of the same thing you really enjoy or one who offers great variety across themes/mechanics? Or am I suggesting a new future top 10 topic???
Comments:
10. Castles of Burgundy - So what if it's dry? Is the game broken mechanically? Is it too lucky? This is an overrated list, if you see why people like it why is it here?
9. Haven't played, but you made good points
8. Mage Knight is Number 2 this year (as voted by solo game group). So what if it's Euro puzzle? All the best games are. Tell me something objective as you did with numbers 9, 7. Rule book is awful.
7. Good points
6. Again good points (apart from Artwork - it does not a good game make)
5. I agree, but I don't like trains so cannot say it's overrated. And what is the problem there mechanically?
4. Totally agree! The same game should not be ranked twice! I haaaaate that!
3. Do you want to know why it's number 1? Because it appeals to both Euro Gamers and Ameritrash gamersIt's a Dungeon Crawler Euro gamers have been wanting all their lives. Agree that FH shouldn't be nominated for any awards (apart from expansion). But again no mechanical faults with the game.
PS. Insulting people by calling them sheep for liking a game you don't is not cool!
2. Good points apart from it being convoluted.
1. You have good points. Apart from convoluted - Concordia is not convoluted in the slightest. PS. There are extra rules on some of the maps. And I haven't seen all the love for it.
I normally agree with you, but about Brass, I can't. The mechanics are great! The two era's feel great. The first player mechanic is really nice, your cards can be used for everything which I like. It's an awesome economic simulation type game. It could be that you don't like that type of game, but if you do this is the best one out there. I think that's the reason it's so high. Don't get me wrong, I can imagine people not liking this game, but that's mostly because of their taste more than about the quality of the game. One more thing, I think it's not too bad when you get behind. This game is a lot shorter than most heavy games. When you know this game you can play it within an hour to an hour and a half. Ofcourse, it's just my opinion! btw I still loved the video, I do agree with some of them! Keep up the good work!
I totally agree with Luke on Concordia. I played it 5-6 times with the Salsa expansion and it was just sooooo damn dry. Trading in the Mediterranean is my least favorite theme. The mechanisms were nice but I couldn’t get past the theme.
Even the mechanisms drive me nuts in it. There's just no fun to be had, it's all sucked out.
If some of those games were re-themed, and artwork changed accordingly to something that suits you more, while maintaining the exact same gameplay mechanics, would you still consider those games overrated?
Yes, because even though it would have a nicer lick of paint they still wouldn't be fun games for me
Dude. I do disagree on about half of these. But your reviews are honest, awesome, and totally entertaining. You are the dude.
I appreciate that! We don't have to agree, just have to respect. :-)
Hey Luke, off topic question: have you every played Unmatched? It's been on my mind lately and when I saw your video title I thought maybe it was on this list. Do you know it?
I know it but never tried it.
@TheBrokenMeeple I've seen a lot of your videos but I could not guess if you'd like it. You surprise me sometimes with what you like/dislike.
I periodically look at the BGG ratings to try and find the next game to buy. I keep looking at Castles of Burgundy because of its rating, I watch a few review videos and a play through and always get to the same point - why? I can't see why this game gets so much love. I keep looking into this game and can't figure out why I'd like it.
I'm the same, a games on the list feel that way. I keep thinking I should own them due to the hype, but I feel I would not like them. After this video I'm glad I did not buy them.
Since you touched on the Golden Geek Awards subject (to mention Paladins of the West Kingdom mostly), allow me to get one thing off my chest: Tapestry 3rd best game released in 2019? A game so controversial and which most reviewers gave lukewarm reviews to? I mean, wow, that's what vote brigading does, I guess...
Couldn't agree more. I go through them all in my last podcast episode and yeah, Tapestry has no place on that list.
What you got wrong:
- Castles of Burgundy get over the theme and let the mechanics wash over you. The simplicity of the game with tight decisions make this a very interesting game. Not *MY* favorite Feld (that's Roma), but it is in my top ten of all games.
- Mage Knight. I think the rules complexity is the thing that hurts this game the most (and the four day set up time). But once you can play the game in under an hour, it's strategic depth is so delicious, but unfortunately tight. I really feel bad that you can't see the brilliance of this design.
- Terraforming Mars my only problem with this game is the play length, but prelude does a good job of fixing that. I've never experienced the "luck factor" or pain you've described. But never play it with more with 3 people. I like it best at two.
- Age of Steam....okay on this one, yeah. it isn't pretty. But it isn't just another train game, IMHO it is the BEST train game. (and I HATE train games). The thing about this one is that it is engineering tolerance tight. You can literally lose the game on the first turn. but once you learn how not to do that, the game is very intellectually rewarding.
- Gloomhaven I haven't played it but I do want to comment on your statement "you can't make it three rooms?" Have you ever worn armor and fought someone with a weapon (even a rattan weapon would be hefty enough for simulation). I have, full chainmail with a blunted longsword. I was pretty in shape when I did it, but I couldn't fight more than maybe fifteen twenty minutes before I was exhausted. Armor can weigh up to 100-150 pounds and my sword weighed about 25 pounds. That's a lot of weight to be handling while doing a stressful activity.
I HIGHLY AGREE with your "double game ranking on bgg" comment. You shouldn't be allowed to vote twice on the same game. I haven't played Brass, but I would make an exception for games like Ticket to Ride where each map changes the game just enough to make in different. There are maps I hate, and maps I LOVE. In fact, the best example of why you need to be able to vote on different "editions" is a game you likely haven't played, Cat and Chocolate and the re-implement Texas Zombies. The rules to both games are identical, but the theme makes Texas Zombies practically unplayable, where Cat and Chocolate is a sublime story telling puzzle solving game. War of the Ring, Twilight Imperium and Through the Ages are the biggest offenders IMHO.
Castles doesn't have anything to draw me in though - place a die, grab tokens, that's not enough without a theme. TM has some really unbalanced cards in there that I've seen literally swing games for people. MK is just too much of a puzzle game and not a thematic dungeon crawler. One other comment on here agreed it has no story and that just kills it stone dead - don't make it a fantasy adventure game with no story. With AOE, i can't understand how a game that takes 2-3 hours is fun if you can lose on the first turn making the rest of the game redundant. It's the same though that Splotter use, hence why I hate their games! :P
@@TheBrokenMeeple fair enough. I still think you're wrong on Castles.
A list like this is useful because players need some help in narrowing down where there should focus their attention in the sea of games out there. In general, I only play about once a week and buy about 10 games a year. There is a fairly high overhead of time to learn a new game; it's not like watching a movie. My time and money are limited, and I want a good chance of a pay off for the investment.
It's interesting that Luke generally confirmed my impressions about several games that seemed to be "must haves" when I got into the hobby about a year ago. I've held off on C of B (the reprint that still looks bad didn't help), Gloomhaven, Brass, and Concordia. I'm pretty sure I won't miss them.
Innocent Punter : we’re looking for a light weight family game
BGG Hivemind : Spirit Island - it’s the answer to every question
I do admit, not just with Spirit Island but also with GWT and others, the BGG hivemind is the wrong place to go for initial game advice.
Just recently I began to appreciate and play a lot of Ticket To Ride. I love it but I must admit that I never thought of Europe just as an expansion of USA. Very interesting video. Thank you :-)
Interesting list. I think you confuse no theme with theme you hate hahah
Both options I dislike! :-) However you're not going to defend #10 and #2 and #1 for having solid strong themes are you? And I actually don't mind the theme of #2.
@@TheBrokenMeeple haha only 10. When people say "I'm going to have a sheep empire" there is a theme. concordia I make jokes about the lack of Romans and revolts to be fair lol
I have a few of the games you have mentioned in your critique including Gloomhaven and I agree pretty much with everything you say.😉 Gloomhaven is a good game, but it does not deserve ALL the hype and praise it receives, I enjoy other games far more. You missed a game off your list though, Wingspan, good game? Yes, but is it that good? No, massively overrated.
I think Wing is a very solid game overall, I enjoy it each time and it's one of those games that is approachable by all kinds of players with a nice theme and simple rules. Such a game would deserve the praise.
I appreciate your honesty, keep up the great work.
Thank you. Means a lot, the troll minority have been rather vocal on Facebook and it's good to counterbalance with these from decent gamers.
great video! How about a list of underrated games? Keep up the good work.
It's on the agenda given that I need to instruct the vocal minority that I do love games still! 😜 Plus the last one I did was made at the same time as this, so it's due an update.
The amount of salt applied to your hatred of Terraforming Mars gives me absolute life .. Glad I'm not the only one who was bored out of my skull on that one... And I won.
Ha ha glad we agree! Before the end of this year there will be a revised list covering other titles from the last 5 years in this regard.
@@TheBrokenMeeple Looking forward to it. Maybe we just aren't "those" kind of gamers. I love me a good engine builder, but it's got to play fast or I die inside.
OK over half of this list are among my favourite games. And I don't like any of the games on your top 10 of all time list except 7WD. Maybe I should start following your channel just to find out what games you DON'T like so I can get them lol
Well they can't be over-rated if no-one likes these games can they? ;-)
@@TheBrokenMeeple Exactly :D
Curious about your dislike of the card play in Concordia - it’s basically the same as Mission: Red Planet, which you love.
In MRP it's tied to role selection, everyone has the cards to begin with and the same cards as each other. There's room to gauge what's going to get played.
With Concordia, there isn't, however it's not that part I don't like, it's the fact that the cards themselves are tied to scoring with some being far more powerful than others. Who's winning the game with 1 VP for every 10 cash vs simply building in every region? And no-one can buy my Pilot to mess me over, but they can buy all my Vp for goods cards I was after.
Started off good.
10. COB: 100% correct. Well said
9. LIM: right on.....
5. Train games!!!!!! Add in ticket to ride and you are a god.....
4. Brass: you killed my Sacred Cow here. I Love this game soo much. I'll have to work to forgive you....
3. Gloomhaven. You said it soo well. But this should be #1. If it would have been #1 I would have had to cancel my Boardgame Ramblings Patron and switch over. Almost!! 😄
Why not have both? 😁
@@TheBrokenMeeple ok 👌 Done
@@Oaklestat Legend!!! Thank you!! 🙏
@@TheBrokenMeeple you're welcome. You deserve it. Besides I need your channel to help me justify backing the Vindication kickstarter, lol
Top 10 Exceptions to the Rule is fun - games you shouldn't like but do, mechanics/themes that shouldn't work, a designer you typically don't like, etc.
Strangely I thought I had already done that list, but for some reason I don't see it. Maybe it was a podcast or something else. Odd...............
I am not going to bash on you for any of your opinions no way. I appreiciate the content!! Only thing is when you criticized GWT about not being like a typical western I had a chuckle. I live in the western U.S. and my family were pioneers. Most of what went on here was ranching like seen in GWT and KC was the hotspot for distrubution to the West. Movies love to paint the west as wild, but that was actually short lived. Most people were cattle ranchers and dairy farmers! My family in particular came to Oregon and started a lumber enterprise near the coast.
Definitely a movie perception issue! 😜 Though I don't really watch westerns either. For me Western Legends and Carson City fill my Western vibe in games.
After buying Ticket to Ride early in my collection, I have never had any desire to buy another train game. They all look the same and the one I have is at least really accessible and I can play it with my kids.
Ticket to Ride doesn't even class as a train game.
I'm not a diehard Feld-fan but I do enjoy In The Year of the Dragon. It's a nice point salad, with multiple paths to victory, and some painful decision making which I like. The theme is pretty thin but the game is still fun for me.
I just don't get on with Felds - that one you mentioned is just a masochist nightmare! :P
I'm a die hard eurogamer so what can I say about this list :D! Enjoyed the video thoroughly nonetheless!
I am going to buy The Castles of Burgundy but you are right it's themeless. I'm also receiving, The Crown of Emara. I would be interested in seeing you do a review. If you have please direct me to it. I am also liking mechanics more but you are right theme draws you in. I think mechanics are more of a hardcore gamer thing.
Except I do like good mechanics, heavy ones as well, but the theme has to make me want to come back for a 2nd go. Mechanics alone aren't enough to escape reality in a board game. A strong theme can forgive small mechanical issues.
I've played Crown of Emara, but didn't do a review. The game mechanically is fine. No issues with it. But it just felt like another Euro game, no theme at all so it just fades into the background.
Actually I hate TTR, but I like TTR:Europe. I was with you most of the video, but Concordia??? *Aghast*
Did a quick scan of the list, but will watch later. Personally, I think Scythe and Wingspan are massively overrated. They’re so popular, but I’ve played them and I’m always just left wondering why they are.
I love them both - now as much as Scythe I can understand, I feel that Wingspan is just tailor made to work with a wide variety of people, not just hardcore gamers. That kind of approachable play deserves credit and I find it fun each time.
CoB, Mage Knight, Great Western Trail - Played once or twice and don't hate but never felt the need to own. If nothing else is on offer on a game night I wouldn't be adverse to playing
Terraforming Mars - My partner loves this while it's a 7/10 for me, with Prelude. The only other expansion I'll choose to play with are the other maps. But after hearing what sort of play times you're getting I'm not surprised you hate it. We tend to look at 90 minutes with 3 players but have had a couple of 5 player games that have dragged out.
Barrage, Gloomhaven - Not my types of game.
Age of Steam, Brass - I'm a Wallace fan, you're wrong, I'm happy to move on :) Although I do dislike the new editions. AoS is blandness personified and Brass is borderline unplayable in anything other than perfect light. Along with pointless player boards that increase the footprint of the game and the awful Iron Clay chips that don't stack like real poker chips should.
Concordia - Your top pick is also mine. I hate this game with a fiery passion. And it's made worse that I'm the only one in the group that does. So it's in constant rotation
😂 love when you get fired up! Like you say, they’re only games. Anyone that takes it personally takes games way too seriously! Castles - I shouldn’t like it but I do... the simple dice placement and instant reward is very satisfying. TM - agreed.... like the game but it needs prelude and fewer players. And the components need to be better. Feel about the same about the rest. I think 7th continent is the most overrated game in the top 50 on bgg. “Let’s spend 10 hours exploring who knows what to get to the end and fail”. So fun!
Oh boy, I got 7th Continent arriving soon that I bought to try out and review. :P
🤭 can’t wait to hear what you think 🤞🏻
Let's see: I disagree with you on: CoB, TMars, Barrage, Brass (though I agree a bit with Brass: Birmingham), GWT, and Concordia. And I agree about Lorenzo. The rest I haven't played. So basically for the future I'll take a really good look at any games you dislike to get some recommendations! :D
Then again I mostly don't care about theme: good mechanisms + bad theme usually means good enough for me; interesting theme + mediocre/bad mechanisms I'll never touch. And if anyone tries to play "thematically" in a eurogame with me (not to see if the strategy works, but because they feel it's beautiful to play that way), I would probably never play euros with them again. I'm just not interested in that kind of interaction. Now, if you want to add some thematic play in games like Battlestar Galactica, that's great! But if someone complains that they can't win with cows in a GWT game when the setup just doesn't favor cows?! Yeah, no.