The Tedious Repetition of Coming Out Movies
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- Опубликовано: 28 янв 2023
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Развлечения
One thing I think people don't realise is you don't come out once. You are constantly coming out over and over and over again all your life. Every time you meet a new group of people you have to in a way come out to them. My brother just got a new girlfriend who like had a teen daughter and stuff so eventually I am going to have to come out to them. Every new job I start I will have to come out to my colleagues. It's not a one time thing. It's not one dramatic emotional scene and then it's over. It's actually kind of tedious just having to come out over and over again all your life.
And if you're like me, you're coming out as different things multiple times to the same people because you came out before you really knew yourself. There's gender, sexuality, and for me, being autistic but not diagnosed and not knowing until I was in my 20s is a very similar feeling to being queer. I may be out on social media, but there are certain people in my life I may never fully be out to because it feels more exhausting to explain it than to pretend I'm somebody else for our brief interactions. Shout out to my elderly relatives who are lovely people but still live like it's the 1950s.
You're acting like you owe coming out to EVERYONE, you don't need to inform every single person you meet, just the ones that matter to you, and only when you're comfortable enough to let them know
For years ive just been assuming that people can tell that im queer by my appearance n if they cant then thats a them problem n theyll just have to find out whenever it ends up naturally coming up in conversation
@@mewhenthethewhen4079 i am npt sayimg you owe coming out to everyone but like you just don't come out only once. There are many situations where you are gonna need to be out. If my brothers girlfriend is going to be a long term fixture in his lif ethen she is going to be a lomg term fixture in my life so I will kind of need her to know about me being lesbian. It's never a one and done thing. Its a life long multiple times thing.
@@jennifervasquez lmao i had the same solution thought despite looking queer as hell i still get people terribly surprised to find out i actually am. Funnily enough children don't seem to have this issue. They just assume I'm a lesbian from the get go and run with it.
My parents forgot that I came out! And after coming out as bisexual for the second time at 35, at 48 I said to my mum that I was not splitting up with my partner because she is trans- and she said “well I know you have always been a bit bi”! No mum- I am totally bi. And my wife was always a woman- but trying to satisfy social pressure that told her she was a boy.
I had a similar issue! I first mentioned my queerness to my mother when I was a teenager, and nearly 10 years later I casually referred to myself as gay in conversation because I'd been out so long I didn't think twice about it, and my mother kept telling people I'd just come out to her lol I had no idea how to respond!
give me a movie like this where the joke is that the parents keep forgetting their kid's sexuality.
I am queer guy from iran.This is story i find out i am gay. i not dumb you may laugh but its Iran.
As homophobic country they dont speak abut LGBT its not all they dont talk abut straight sexual thinks even in highschool.i make it 2 part its long story.
Yeah, mine repressed my trans coming out as well. Had to do it a second time half a year later.
And those movies just expect me to forgive and forget?
Part 2 you may think i am dumb dont laugh its Iran anyway.igo with straight way first and i choose to use sisters barby doll for it first i take girl barby but i culd not feel anything i culd not experience C then I rember word gay and say why not try and take male barby doll it was first time i experience C and find out i gay. In end i ask my sister to gift me that male doll as this funny memory 😂😂that doll was big part of find my self.
31:43 reminds me of a friend of mine, Gary, who was naturally so flamboyantly gay, that at the age of 13 his parents essentially sat him down and told HIM he was gay. They sat him down and gave him the "We just want you to know that no matter what you decided in life we love you" talk. And he was confused at first. "Am I dying?" he thought. What was it they weren't telling him? So he pried and pried, and finally they said "You're gay aren't you?" And he was 13 and this was somewhere around 1993 (maybe earlier) so naturally he instinctively denied it. "No I'm not," he said. But his parents just patted him on the knee and said "Yes you are dear. You're gay." And that is how he came out.
I love this so much. You usually hear about people telling their families and them already knowing. I have never heard about anyone being told what they were before (at least not accurately, because some bi people do have their parents assume they are just gay)
@@emmakane6848 I'm another one! My mom directly told me she sees me having a relationship with a girl more than a boy. Waaayy before I figured things out myself.
@@emmakane6848 most parents who notice their child 'obviously' being queer would avoid starting to talk about it for various reasons. to kick the can down the road often saves nerves.
That's terrible. I know they meant well but they were painfully ignorant. It's absolutely wrong for anyone, even parents, to decide someone's sexuality based on their gender performance. He could have been genderqueer, or maybe just gender nonxonforming! It could have had nothing to do with sexuality!
Bruh imagine if the kid were just straight with a flamboyant personality.
i really love that original definition of coming out as coming out into queer society and think we should start throwing queer debutante balls again. instead of coming out being marked with fear/uncertainty/trauma, why don't we make it a big glittering fabulous party where you can proudly announce your arrival into the community and dance in a cool outfit about it???
I would love more opportunities to dress fancy and hang out with my friends
that sounds awesome !
If there's one thing we need to bring back from the 19th century, it's debutante balls. That, and top hats.
I kind of did something like that, a few times actually. I went to different club wind ups and dressed as my real self for those events and it was the first time the vast majority of people ever saw the girl I am. It was scary as anything but I wouldn’t have done anything different.
I would love that. Also because so often we think of it/the media presents it as an all-in-one-go deal, whereas in practice I'm out to the specific parts of the local queer community that I know are discreet and won't make assumptions I'm universally out and therefore put me at risk from certain people in my life. I think it's really common to be out/in in different contexts, but it'd be nice to have a way of marking the occasion of coming out among people like ourselves.
There's so many "coming out" stories, but not enough "egg cracking" stories (I know that term usually only refers to gender, but I mean it definitely applies to sexuality too)
It reinforces this narrative that non-queer people have of "always knowing", and in a sense in turn reinforces the narrative of queer people being fundamentally different from their non-queer counterparts.
I think that's why But I'm A Cheerleader still feels kind of fresh to people - SHE doesn't know she's a lesbian at the beginning, which is still pretty rare
Having one's egg crack and them coming to understand and get comfortable with that idea, especially if they themself were uncomfortable with the ideas, is such an important process for people to understand, that is missed entirely in those understandings. Additionally, there's the "Oh now I see it." of looking back and seemingly inoccuous stuff that makes sense once you've somewhat figured yourself out.
Too much this. I spent most of my life assuming I was cishet. At first I thought that my unwillingness to date or get into any kind of relationship was a conscious choice. I didn't want to drag someone else into all my personal problems, and I wanted to wait until I was older, more mature, and financially stable. It just wasn't a high priority in my life. I had to have a friend interpret that for me, because it turns out I'm aroace.
Still, had anyone asked me at the time, I would have vehemently denied being trans. I didn't understand what the term meant, and I thought that since I didn't see myself as a trans woman, there was no way it could apply to me. I didn't know gender identity was a spectrum and there were other possibilities. I didn't know that nonbinary identities fell under the trans umbrella. I didn't even know that I had to figure it out for myself, since I assumed it had to be diagnosed like some kind of psychiatric condition. In the end, I came out at a much older age, when I was older than most of trans content creators you could name.
I didn't always know I was aroace agender. It's also entirely possible my gender identity changed over a long period of time, as certain forms of gender fluidity work over years rather than day by day. That doesn't make my experiences any less legitimate, or me less deserving of equal rights.
With comphet more commonly known now, we need more stories like that about late bloomers
our flag means death also does this well with stede!
This idea of "always knowing" is why I'm perpetually secretly terrified that my family don't believe me about my gender identity lmaooooo (made even juicier by the fact that I've certainly known longer than they've realized and only recently accepted it anyway)
Coming out as asexual to my family was a long the lines of "hey I'm asexual, if you have questions Google it okay bye now I'm gonna play some videogames" in a text
Oh, the freedom to tell people to just google something
I wish I had the courage to say that to my extended family members, but I'm too scared of an upset and microaggressions at family gatherings.
iconic
That's how it should be. When I came out as nonbinary to my mother, after I had spent months testing the waters, she just said, "Okay."
Big ace energy 👏
Yeah, with the amount of misinformation floating the web, this might be risky
My friends legit did not know I was trans. Like, they respected the name change and tmeven the style and pronoun change, but for some reason, it never clicked for them that that was because I was trans. They were actually surprised when I used the word to describe myself. Coming out Iis a wild experience, lol
Who hears their friend ask for different PRONOUNS and thinks it's like... for fun??
@NoiseDay If I had to guess. I think they got stuck with this idea of trans people being this thing that happens out there away from them and didn't really connect that it's not like, just strangers and celebrities. That, and I haven't medically transitioned and I think they must have figured name, pronouns, that's normal that made sense with who I already was, but if my body didn't change then I wasn't trans because that's all they really knew about us before I came out
Cishet people are so clueless lmao
My mum did too, like ... I lived 3 years changing my names, using different pronouns, tattooing a (wo)man on my torso, and it was all okay, you do you, etc, then I used the term trans casually reffering to myself, and fears pushed by cis media came pouring ...
it was ...WEIRD
@Bérénice Saquet Yeah, it's a strange sort of dissonance that they seem to hold. My dad will often spew some far right anti trans talking points, and he can't really understand why that would be upsetting to me. Like, he feels bad for hurting me, but he seems incapable of understanding why saying transphobic stuff to your trans kid is hurtful. I honestly think they can't stop conceiving of transness as the other, and they can't stop seeing us as their kids, so they just keep those parts of us separate in their minds
My family is convinced I'm either gay or bi... and I'm not going to correct them. I dated a girl a few years back and told my aunt, who was supportive but also decided that outing me to the rest of the family was "good for me". That happened at the same time as I was realising I'm aroace, but I struggled to find a way to explain the concept of asexuality to my relatives, some of them are elderly and lack the education to understand, they would probably suggest I suffer from a mental condition. On top of that, I discovered the label of "lesbian" gave me kind of a reputation in the family! I used to be treated like the baby, a clueless little girl who lacks practical skills... and now they respect me more, they listen to my opinion without being condescending. My guess is that my ignorant family thinks of queer women as tough, practical, less emotional, basically "more like men". It's disgusting misogyny, but if it means they will take me seriously, I will let them believe I'm gay
Oh my god yes. Same. For example: When I was seen as "just a late bloomer heterosexual" my mom would say things like "building IKEA furniture is something you future husband should do, don't do that yourself!" or "why can you fix (electrical appliance of choice, often PC), that's not something a girl should do, go ask you father". The truth is, I can do those things because I enjoy them, and because I learned at some point that it is much easier to help myself than to ask anyone, because that would mean them doing all the diagnostics I already did all over again. After they did accept that I am probably not the "late bloomer heterosexual" it was a lot more okay and appreciated, actually. It's sad, but also it's a relieve to not having to listen to that s*** whenever I solve my problems myself.
I mean I consider myself aroace and pan as in I want to get married and I don’t care about the gender, so I guess you could be an aroace lesbian, they don’t need to know specifics and you aren’t lying
@@ArloLinn one of the most difficult things for me was embracing being aromantic, I had hoped that even though I felt no sexual attraction whatsoever maybe I could feel romantic attraction, but that just didn’t happen. Ever. I dated a wonderful person and all I ever felt was platonic friendship. I feel so much lighter now that I stopped “hoping for the right one”. I love my friends so much and platonic love is just as strong and important as romantic love. My fam don’t need to know, they probably wouldn’t understand and I already had to go low contact with some of them for other reasons.
@@elisac9635 yeah same, it kind of sucks knowing I’ll never experience a normal romantic relationship. But my friends are awesome and I love them dearly. And I’m sure one day I’ll meet fellow aroace person who I can go platonically date and marry eventually
@@ArloLinn It feels so odd to me to have a "preference" as an aroace person, but that is exactly what my own experience is 😅 My brain is so confused over "If no want sex or relationship, why attracted to girls?" Every now and then, the thought "What if I'm just a reeeeally repressed lesbian?" occurs to me again, but I genuinely never had what people describe a crush is 🤷 Every time I consider the concept of a relationship, it's like "Would be wonderful if someone split the living costs with me for sure" immediately followed by "Ugghh, I lived in a shared flat for 7 years never againn" 😂 My life is already pretty full of my social life, hobbies, family and work, and I don't feel like it's missing anything, so adding a relationship feels completely unnecessary 🤷
Trans coming out stories are almost completely ignored. Which have a whole other aspect of changing names/pronouns/gender presentation. Also as a person that didn't transition into their 40s because of massive shame/fear/trans erasure I feel like only younger trans stories are being told. Being trans was erased most of my life and only easier to come out in the last 10 years (still not easy). So many of us my age have to deal with coming out to spouses of 20+ years, kids, etc and possibly losing everything we worked for in our life.
Amazon made a series a few years back called TRANSparent. It had issues, but it follows a richer middle class family, with grown children, and how they navigate "Dad" becoming "Mom", and then main character and her journey.
Yes I know so many elder trans folk and their stories are so interesting and really speak to the realities of trans life.
Yup. Agree.
And when there's media on adult coming out, the focus is always on how their kids handle it.
Like transparent and 52 Tuesdays.
But 52 Tuesdays is a very underrated film tbh. I liked it.
But I want media where we are relevant in our own right and not only in relation to the cis.
Ironically enough in the recent years stories have been shown of younger trans kids in europe which us in turn makes us feel like shit because we couldn't enjoy a childhood in which we could be who we are, let alone benefit from puberty blockers.
Yeah I feel similar, though I'm still quite young, I've found that the majority of trans stories seem to focus only on trans women, whereas it feels like trans men are still largely overlooked, even within the trans community.
Not to like change the subject but your hair is AMAZING in this video
I was about to coment the same!
same here lol
So gorgeous!
its truly stunning
I tell her that every time.
I used to volunteer to do panels for my school’s LGTBQ+ group and every. damn. time. someone would ask what our coming out stories were. After a while I just declined to answer and just gave them a synopsis of the lessons I learned from that experience. It felt gross, spilling my trauma out for the “enrichment” of a classroom full of strangers and spending the rest of the week trying to tuck it all back in again. It felt voyeuristic on their part. I was a curiosity, a novelty: Two parts palatable and one part grotesque. My lived experiences like a car wreck for passersby to rubberneck at.
EVERY time?!! I would never think to ask that of someone, that’s such a personal thing.. it’s like asking about family problems. you just don’t pry into people’s personal experiences like that. but seriously, every single time.. that must’ve been so uncomfortable. sorry for that.
i dont think i would say "how was your coming out story", but i do see myself asking people "when did you realised you where x?" because its an area i know nothing off and not only is it helpfull for me in understanding you all more by seeing where they went through, but also as a way to reflect with myself if ive ever challenged those thoughts or views.
at least for me is with the intent of trying to connect to all of you, i have no idea if this gives another side to this side of things, hopefully it does.
i love "but im a cheerleader"
Same
Same x2
same xD its in my letterboxd top 4
ru playing a straight man never fails to make me laugh.
Me too !
For anyone wondering why lgbt representation is so important, when Love Simon came out, I was 18. I went to see it by myself. When Simon and Bram kissed, I started bawling, because at that moment I realized that was the first time in 18 years that I’ve ever seen a film where two guys, both main characters, kissed each other and neither of their stories ended in tragedy. It was the first time that I’d seen a happy queer story by a major film studio in a theater full of people cheering for two gay characters. It was the first time I felt like I was understood.
I once heard some great advice “if someone comes out to you, match their energy” if they’re casual, “ok cool” is probably a better response than “OMG you’re so brave”
“Ace of Spades” is an interesting type of YA book ft a person coming out when one of the main characters is outed and how it intersects with their black American identity and economic status versus their white legacy rich peers at a dubious private school.
Edit: spelling
What a good Motorhead song too
The focus on coming out is what happens when straight people tell our stories. It happened. You may or may not have gotten banged up in the process. All the changed is you might not be engaging in a sophisticated double life... in one area of your life. What's left:
1) Fundamental incompatibility with straight life:
a) You aint meeting a partner at a straight bar
b) You aren't stay in your small town/suburb... unless you want 1 of the 2 dating options available
c) You are going to feel immense pressure to do well in school... being a poor locks you into staying in that small town
d) Your straight friends aren't sticking around, you'll get dropped soon as they pursue straight priorities
2) Still lying about who you are:
a) Sure, you are out... but not at work because you dont want to be held back from opportunities
b) You don't mention it to new roommates. You got a great deal on rent & cant afford to mess up that situation
c) Your new straight friends are great... but they want to do straight things and you being gay is too complex for them
You don't come out and then get put on the same life track as straight people. That's a nice story for straight audiences, but at the end of the day you are on a completely opposite track
I think this is a thing not enough people know. There's this atittude that it's some kind of leveller when in reality it's swings and roundabouts: you're less pressured by secrets, but more vulnerable due to that exposure, even though it was one you (hopefully) chose.
Genuine question, but what "straight priorities" would cause your friends to leave?
And what straight activities are you referring to in point 2c? The only thing that comes to mind for me is going to a straight bar/club.
@@amentrison2794 "straight priorities" Children and spending all their time with their partner. Most straight men can't maintain relationships. They are trained to enter 1 romantic partnership & that consumes a majority of their social life (why men are experiencing a friendship crisis)
"The only thing that comes to mind for me is going to a straight bar/club." That's appears to be it until you realize EVERYTHING men do is to meet 1 of 2 goals:
1) Get girls
2) Compete against other males
Try to think of an activity young men do that doesn't involve 1 of those 2 elements
Not all straight men are like that, but most of them are. My only straight friendships that last have been with women.
👏👏👏
@@camadams9149 interesting. I guess I was primarily thinking of having straight women as friends instead of men. Plus my main guy friend does just have hobbies for the sake of having hobbies, though we're both young and not in any serious relationships.
So I had two very different experiences with coming out. I am non-binary and also someone who really REALLY doesn't like drama or attention towards who I am. I came out to my direct family (mum, dad and brothers, as well as my sister in law), and it went really well. All very excepting and it gave me a good sense of control and helped me in my own journey of self acceptance that I was able to slowly one by one when i felt like I was able to come out to them.
Then I had my second experience. I was at my cousins wedding weekend and had to go home from the rehearsal dinner early cause I was not feeling well. While I was gone my sister in law outed me to several members of my extended family. Them thinking that because she was just talking about it it must be common knowledge then spread it around the whole family (there are alot of us). NOW I want to stress that no one in my family was mean. They have all be amazing actually and really supportive. BUT I was still blind slighted by people asking me about it next day and also got others who didn't know I wasn't the one who did the outing thinking I was trying to 'come out' at my cousins wedding which NO I would never have chosen this time to do that. It made me feel so fucking terrible that I lost that control and power. I was not ready to be out to my extended family and even though it been months I still feel like something was robbed from me. This sort of complexity of a 'good coming out' in sense no one was mean but still feeling like you lose control is something I didn't have any framework to understand I haven't really seen this covered before. I also have literally no idea how to bring it up with my sister in law how she hurt me cause the one time I tried she genuinely thought it was a good thing cause everyone was so nice to me that weekend.
I feel like you telling her that you had no intentions of having your identity be scrutinized and commented on by a large number of family members, all at once during a large event, who you are not so close to should do the trick. Try using language that will communicate the way that she took away your control of the situation would make it clear why what she did was not okay.
If that doesn’t work, go back to the fact that it could’ve gone quite badly and she had no real way to know how everyone would react, or how other extended family/in laws might react when they found out because all of the people at the wedding could feel emboldened to tell them. Maybe you are still uncomfortable with that happening but don’t really have a way to put the genie back in the bottle, because of how big things got so quickly and there being little to no opportunity for you to communicate how you were feeling at the time due to not wanting to take the focus off the happy couple.
(P.S. Sorry if I made any assumptions about your situation that aren’t actually applicable, but hopefully this at least instructs you in how to go about approaching the topic and at least what NOT to say.)
@@emmakane6848 thanks these actually really great advice :)
Like my family are all 'liberals' so I think she did just assume that it would go all well and I didn't really expect anyone in extended family to have issues. But it was still like a gut punched to be asked about it when I didn't even know those people knew.
Like best example of this was right after wedding I went on fishing trip with my dad and uncles and one of my uncles made a joke about being boys weekend and Verity. Then was like 'Oh sorry was that not ok' completely genuinely. and I was sort of stumped how to respond cause to me yer it was a fine joke actually found it very funny in context. But Also i started stuttering cause I did not know he knew and I think he assumed I was super upset.
Mine was kind of like that. I came out in a big dramatic essay to my school friends on Facebook and had forgotten that my (semi estranged) brother was friends with me and apparently a gossip and he told my parents about it immediately. Was not prepared to come out to them, though it was a fairly lukewarm and harmless conversation. Now I have no way of knowing who in my extended family knows about me (we never talk about queer stuff) and how much they know.
@@Vio818 Oh, I completely understand. It’s always a shock to the system when people have access to information that you didn’t give them and I probably would’ve spiraled a bit if I was in your place.
@@Vio818 people like your sister-in-law need to acknowledge it is _not_ their place to inform anyone of something so personal as preferences to third persons, not even [extended] family. that is the prerogative of the person in question
25:30 this part reminded me of this Harvey Fierstein quote: All the reading I was given to do in school was always heterosexual. Every movie I saw was heterosexual. And I had to do this translation. I had to translate it to my life, rather than seeing my life. Which is why when people say to me, ‘Your work is not really gay work, it’s universal.’ And I say, ‘Up yours.’ You know, it’s gay. And that you can take it and translate it for your own life is very nice, but at last I don’t have to do the translating, you do.
I sometimes casually mention that I’m asexual to people I’ve already come out to just because some people literally forget. I’ve come out to my mom probably half a dozen times, and it still surprises her.
I honestly hate having to do that. It's exhausting, and more than a little dehumanizing, that my family has to be constantly reminded what my sexuality is. They aren't mean about or anything, but still. The thing is, barring a the odd slip up, they gender me correctly regularly.
NOBODY is asexual, you are doing drugs or taking prescription drugs that kill your libido, or you have been exposed to too many xenoestrogens
I've come out to people a million times and yet they still always forget. Its ridiculous
My mum is still utterly convinced I am bisexual despite me having repeatedly told her I'm asexual. She just doesn't understand the concept of asexuality at all yet has no problem with accepting me as queer, it's really strange.
@Flippanties • my mom is the opposite, she completely accepts me as demi because it just "makes sense" but won't accept me as bi because "you're either one or the other"
Not to mention any of us coming out twice because we initially thought we were bisexual but we are lesbian 😂😭
I had a similar experience where I was (sort of) dating this guy while I thought I was biromantic, only to eventually realise I’m not attracted to men. The slow realisation and then the difficulty of telling him this was something I was sooo excited to see represented in Love, Victor, but then they botched it 😑
Similar here. Thought I was bi, then a lesbian, and non-binary, then done a whole switcharoo to a pan trans man. Went all over the place.
I feel you. Went from heteroflexible to bi to lesbian only to years later completely give up on labeling when I fell in love with a man 😂
Relatable!
😂
Facts 😭 thought I was bi but now I know I’m truly lesbian 🥰 I thought I was bi at first cause I used to find men attractive but now?! I don’t wanna do anything with them like all my attraction is gone from them 🤷🏽♀️ I should’ve known that anyways cause I’ve kissed a guy before and I didn’t feel nothing just air🤣 now I’m in a relationship with a girl and I couldn’t be more happy there’s just something about being with a girl that is so special 😍we’re long distance for the past 2 years almost 3 years 🥰
literallyy my experience realizing I was ace was going "oh THAT'S the word for it" and I came out to my brother by texting him "I've told you I was ace right?" cause I legit forgot
I came out on accident once and then for good measure came out to another friend twice because I forgot I told her.
Sooooo relatable
Literally me))) 'oh, there's a word for it', which in my country I have to explain to people, if I tell them, because we don't have any kind of discussion about lgbtq community in general, let alone asexuality. Also, very funny in that my bff is very... not asexual 😁😁 so when we share stories, our experiences are so wildly different, but it would never occur to me that I'm... something... and that there are more people like me, until only a few years ago.
7:25
i feel theres such a tangible difference between feeling attraction towards the same gender and being a part of the queer community
like me, for example, i knew i liked guys since i was 6 but never really used the 'gay' or 'queer' to refer to myself until much later on when i started meeting other queer people and saw how much these labels allowed us to form communities around our shared experiences
I personally enjoy Rosa's coming out in B99, it felt real to me. The coming out was over I think about three or four episodes, with her coming out to the crew, then prepping to come out to her parents, then coming out to her parents, then have to explain being bi. It felt more real
Omg Rosa!!!!!!!!! 😩😩😩😩😩
the framing device with the "director" trying to get you to give an nicely packaged coming out story was really clever!
I was getting irrationally angry at the off-camera voice even knowing that it was just a bit
“Better representation is never a matter of either/or, it’s a matter of yes, and.”
Amazing quote!!
Im an older gay 43, i grew up during a time where the only representation was the gay side kick or the overly camp guy. The only gay love stories ended up with one or both parties dying. it was like we never deserved a happy ended.
I've watched a few shows and movies showing coming out stories and I am pleased that sometimes they show that it dosent always go to plan as that happens in real life but there is always hope in that they will find their support network. I love the fact that these shows and movies tell younger LGBTQ+ teens that you're not alone in how you are feeling , that it is totally normal and okay.
My hope is that coming out stories are always told and that they evolve as comiong out in general will evolve and change, but the power behind that will always be the same, not only accepting yourself but also hopefully finding acceptance with your family and if not your blod kin then finding they queer family who will help and support you.
I don't understand old members of the community who say we don't need these types of movies and shows as there will always be new LGBTQ+ people finding themselves and we will always need representation and a voice screaming out from the screen its okay to be who you are, it's okay to question who you are. You're not alone there are others like you out there going through the same stuff. Just because us oldies did it without decent representation dosent mean the new lot should have to do it that way too.
I also think there should be more movies or shows around older people coming out as its true not everyone comes out in there teens some struggle with it their whole lives due to whats expected of them. I have a friend who only came out to his family after we started talking he was in his late 40's, luckily his family were very accepting of who he is. I think its harder in some ways for older members as they and their family have lived with them being hidden in the closet for much much longer. Again not every coming out is a happy story but again these stories need to be told to show them they are not alone.
Agree 100%. I'm in my early 40s and there's this assumption that it's easy at our age. I think it's often underpinned by unconsidered assumptions that being middle-aged means being secure in terms of finances/housing/employment, and not being as reliant on family as someone in their teens or uni years whose parents are perhaps still paying for their education, housing them out of term time etc.
But that ignores things like the number of millennials who've spent a ton of time living with parents for economic reasons, and the entire disabled part of the community that is much more likely to be poor and to have very significant support needs for which we're reliant on family, which makes coming-out decisions very different.
@@bioluminescentlyunfolding5716 I think the main thing about coming out at an older age is there is a lot more at stake. A lot of older gay men followed social norms, got married had kids. whilst inside screaming that they knew this wasnt right.
They then not only have the fear of loosing their family but also the added thing of sociaty berating them for having a family in the first place ignoring the fact it was sociaty's fault that this happened in the
first place.
Coming out happens at any age and to anyone not just teens. Movies and shows need to start showing older gays coming out it should also highlight why they hid for so long.
I also agree that there should be more shows or movies about disabled LGBTQ+ people too. I'm one of them.
99.99% of lgbtq+ movies or shows revolve around the typical white boy next door. there needs to be more diversity, also as was stated in the vid coming out isnt the end of the story. Also how about some stories where the entire thing wasnt about them coming out but being out and living life as an LGBTQ+ person.
However for the love of everything please stop with the heart break and tragedy story lines why cant we just have story lines like hetro movies.
A hetro type movie or show but where the main cast just happens to be a member of the LGBTQ+ community.
In my first year english class we read the play “children’s hour” which is about 2 women being accused as lesbians by one of their (spoiled and cruel) students at their girls boarding school. The play was written in the 30’s and in based on something that happened to a pair of English govenaces who ran a girls school in the UK… to get to the point of this a movie adaptation was made in 1961 which had to make all sorts of changes to comply with the Hayes code, one if the rules being that the depiction of homosexuality had to end in tragedy (more or less), they did the best they could but it was interesting (and sad) to see what kinds of changes were required to even film the adaptation
I want more queer stories involving action, combat and battle. Fierce heroes rising against oppressors, wielding sword and forming a found family that will save the downtrodden.
Specifically with adult main characters, I find it hard to connect with child protagonists like She-Ra and The Owl House.
Plus I like violence.
Name checks out (also I agree)
I love She-Ra and Owl House and they're both some of my favorite shows, but I can totally understand not being able to connect with the characters.
Have you seen Arcane yet? It definitely seems more in line with what you like.
Convenance is a webcomic on Webtoon with LGBT main character and priest with LOTS of action. It's very cool
In that case, Doomguy / The Doom Slayer is asexual. In a 1996 interview John Carmack said, "Canonically speaking, Doomguy is a virgin. He has never had sex, nor do we have any interest in exploring that area in the future. Doomguy, as far as myself and id Software are concerned, will always be a virgin who doesn't even know what sex is."
@@pikameer8325 All three shows are straight fire! Arcane is toooo good.
You know, I used to hate "We're here, we're queer, get used to it." Because it was parodied to hell! (I remember a simpsons episode that did it and it damaged me so much as a kid when I look back at it!)
But hearing it now just gives me power! Just makes me so happy!
I loved that you talk about it not ending, I think that's the main part that bugs me about these movies.
It was literally a beginning in my queer life, not the end!
I vividly remember finding out that being asexual was a thing in June of 2016 and immediately being like “oh I’m asexual” but I fully do not know who if anyone I’ve come out to let alone when I may have done so
Omg, same exact experience. Now I just assume everyone in my friend group knows about me being ace
NOBODY is asexual, you are doing drugs or taking prescription drugs that kill your libido, or you have been exposed to too many xenoestrogens
it's interesting now that we also get movies like EEAAO that understand the way that "coming out" isn't a one-time thing, showing a character who is and has been out, but still have a significant moment of "reveal" (outing in that case, sometimes coming out to someone new). i guess it's not too surprising that those are often more well done because it shows a level of understanding of the complexity to be doing that to begin with, but it also seem to avoid some of the formulaic elements without ignoring the reality of "coming out."
The non-linear multiple coming-outs that don't just end at the first or most difficult is so true!
For me it's been oh I'm on the ace/aro spectrum maybe -> tell everyone at my summer camp -> find specific word -> tell parents (went okay) -> tell some people at college, not my roommates for a while -> oh I'm specifically aro and ace -> tell college friends -> tell parents (went okayish) -> tell entire extended family -> question gender -> tell friends and sister im questioning -> oh I'm trans -> closet myself to parents for a year and a half but tell friends, siblings, and coworkers immediately -> come out to parents (went ehhhhhhh could have been better) -> immediately come out to extended family -> continue being open about transness -> years long battle with parents and extended family to get them to god damn use my god damn pronouns -> wear enby pin to graduation -> closet myself about everything in order to get and retain a job that will pay my bills and let me move out, maintain being out in social life.
What point of this closes the narrative? Is it when I tell my parents I'm queer the first time? Is it when, years later, my dad didn't misgender me once in a brief conversation? Is it my first Pride, is it when I graduated with the enby pin? My life as a queer person both improved and got worse since all of these, and I've stepped variably into and out of the closet since. And so much has tied into it; my understanding of my politics, religion, life path, and neurotype all shifted, affected my queerness, and were affected by my queerness and each other. There's way too much regarding queer realizations and comings-out to be confined into the linear narrative of a coming-out movie.
Your story of how you can't remember figuring out your asexuality is so legit. I don't know, I kind of read something online that seemed really true, started doing some research, told some people that I was looking into it, forgot about it, researched some more, came out again to new people, still haven't told my parents because it kind of doesn't matter to our relationship...
My frustration with queer teen films is that they're all about coming out and never about just being queer as a teen. Within the last decade it has become very normal for people to come out in their early teens, but we still only get films of older teens around 18 coming out and then the story ends.
What about just showing the life of an out 15 year old?
I came out at 13 so I found it very frustrating and boring that all the queer films I could find were aimed at either people in their mid 20s or teens still in the closet.
i don't think ive ever seen the experience of coming out to a liberal, supposedly supportive family and being rejected.
i never got to come out to my parents as bisexual, my mum found my instagram when i was 13 where i'd posted about it, and she and my dad seemed supportive enough that a few years later i thought it was safe to come out as trans.
long story short, my mum's a fucking terf and still misgenders me to this day. it's a uniquely horrible feeling, because i know if i was 'just' gay she would have been fine, because she could ignore it. i know i'm not the only person to have this experience, but it's something ive never seen in media.
Oooft hi! When I was 13, my mum told me it would be ok if I was a lesbian (I’m not).
At 35 I told her I was ace-spec & she implied I was a deceitful liar if I didn’t automatically tell everyone I ever dated immediately that I was ace.
It stings a bit, eh?
I remember coming out as bi to my immediate family pretty much all on the same day, because it was National Coming Out Day, and I jumped on that as a means of mustering up what little courage I thought I needed (I didn't think they'd reject me, I have a queer aunt and queer cousins, and my siblings had queer friends in school, but it was still a bit nerve-wracking, because suddenly I might be "different" to them). I just... don't remember the YEAR it happened. I was in college, I'm pretty sure!
I came out to my mom sometime earlier, mostly because I had joined a school GSA, and I told her about the only straight person in attendance at my first meeting (that person, who wasn't me lol, turned out later on to NOT be straight, actually). Mom pointed out I was there too, and I thought "Well... I'm not gonna lie, & I'm not gonna awkwardly change the subject, so here I go."
Mom listened, nodded, then proceeded to talk about literally anything else for the next hour, so I thought she was, in a way, rejecting my identity. She wasn't, as it turns out, and she vehemently reassured me of that fact when she found me later, crying, while legit SITTING IN A CLOSET (I swear I didn't do that on purpose, I just happened to sit down right there while having my freakout).
As for my demisexuality... no, absolutely not, couldn't pin down a time or place or circumstance surrounding my realization OR my initial "coming out" if my life depended on it, lol.
As for my GENDER........ ehhhh that's still ongoing, updates to follow. 😜
I’m one of those people who has never come out to my parents and probably never will - I love my parents, I don’t want to change our relationship, and it hurts that I know they’ll never accept that part of me, but I’d rather have them in my life than not at all. They’re more important to me than my sexuality. I know that won’t make sense to many people, but it’s what’s true for me and that should be okay.
It makes sense to me. The Black community is very religious. I've seen PLENTY of Black queer people expressing this exact feeling on social media.
I'm in a similar situation too: I wont come out unless, I meet someone I want to "marry". You are not alone.
I feel the same way. I am very close with my mom, but she is christian and our family comes from a very traditional culture. Throughout the years I got her to be more or less ok with the LGBTQ+ community (she supports trans people and at least condemns explicit homophobia), but I just don't want to risk our relationship, I don't want to put it to test. It breaks my heart, but that's my choice, and as you said, my mom is more important to me than my sexuality.
@@moustik31 I was like that but I did my family didn’t talk to me for months (granted I was 15 and didn’t think things through🤷🏽♀️🤣) But now my family doesn’t care and I’m so glad cause they can’t stop me from liking who I want and I’m an adult 🤷🏽♀️😌
@@RinaIsForever I'm so sorry for the pain this caused you and glad, it all turned out for the best in the end.
😊
@@moustik31 yeah thanks ❤️ family’s still low key homophobic but they can’t really do anything 🤷🏽♀️ when I told my mom I had a girlfriend she wasn’t mad or happy about it she was just like “ well okay”🤣
Before watching this video, I thought I remembered the first person I came out to, but I realized that I’ve lost the timeline!
Was it my liberal friend from college, my friend that I’ve know since 5th grade, my religious boss that I was about to become business partners with, my friend that I kissed in her driveway after that party? I really thought it was one of these people. But when I was trying to remember the order that these things happened, it became very clear to me that the librarian, who I requested every vaguely gay themed book from, was the first person I came out to. How can I be 51 and just realized this???
I got fired from my first job at 18 when I came out lmao. They sat me down in a room with all four of the big bosses and told me, I "wasn't what they were looking for in an employee." 💀💀
💔💔💔 hope you’re doing well now 💝
i didn't realize coming out was a thing until i moved to north america. it feels like this need for over dramatizing coming out is rooted in culture. I really like how you pointed out that by reducing it to that one point in time, het film makers and story tellers feel absolved from pushing beyond it and creating complex queer characters and representation of queer culture....
I don't think dramatic coming out is a North American thing. For more cultures that are more conservative, like Asian culture for example, can be a huge thing. I do agree that variety in queer stories would be nice though.
Where are you from?
Yes. It's like baby showers or promposals: I lack the cultural experiences to relate to these big gestures moments.
It’s always baffled me when people talked about their “[sexuality] awakening.” For the longest time I doubted my own Bisexuality because I never had that great awakening moment. I’ve since worked pass that (mostly) but this video really helps by putting situations that into words and letting me know Im not the only one!
Only speaking for myself (as a demisexual in my thirties), I think clichéd coming out stories have been unhelpful in that they create the expectation that you KNOW when you're in the closet. There's so little representation of what it's like to be questioning your sexuality and not being able to come up with answers.
Guys just read Alice Oseman stuff, I promise you she fixes at least 90% of the problems mentioned in her multiple stories. Like Heartstopper, which is initially a 'Coming Out' story where to boys find eachother, but grows into something more mature and nuanced, still centered around queerness, but not just coming out or discovery. It's comfort. It's showing that being coupled doesn't solve all your problems, I mean in the 4th graphic novel of Heartstopper one of the mc's has a mental health relapse, while his partner tries to help him in any way he can.
Or in her novel Radio Silence where the mc is bisexual, and accidentally started the conflict by kissing the wrong girl at the wrong time! The other mc being an asexual gay man who is struggling with his emotionally abusive mother, and being outed as a famous podcast youtuber. The relationship between the mc's is purely platonic, and I am all for it.
Or Loveless, with an aroace mc who platonically falls head over heels for her friend group, and stops obsessing over finding a romance to focus on the bonds she already has. There's no real 'Oh' moment, she discovers the label and slowly realizes it fits her.
Summary, Alice Oseman is based
Alice Oseman’s ace rep, while not 100% an exact match to me, was so validating for the first time in my 35 years. Especially Tori, who is shown in a r’ship while still being ace. I didn’t hear the term until I was in my 20’s and non-ace people’s stereotype of what it feels like to be ace made me dismiss it for almost a decade (b/c I’m a demiromantic grey-ace & all ace people were labelled as perpetually single loner robots).
I am not ace not aro but I agree 100%. because even in the gender sexual and romantic minority community, there are even more minorities! I am always happy to hear someone discover themselves through representation, it feels like things get better... a little bit. but there are still lots of steps waiting to be taken
I will never stop being mad about Love Simon being made into a coming out movie. the book was a CUTE ROMANCE, NOT a coming out story. The coming out was incidental to the main plot of the romance.
I definitely has a lot in common with Heartstopper in this respect.
(Spoiler alert: The t.v. show made Nick coming out to his mother the final scene and therefore the thing that sticks with a lot of people, when I can’t even remember if it was the end of the chapter in the webcomic.)
@@emmakane6848 It was the last scene in the second volume of the comics, so it wasn’t as much of a change as it sounds like Love Simon maybe was. Narratively, I don’t think you could’ve ended that season anywhere else. The nice thing about HS is that the story does continue and focus on other things, both in the comics and will in the show as well in S2. Nick’s coming out is a plotline and part of the beginning of the story - not the entire story.
@@lowkeyproductions6681 Oh, yeah. You’re right. The only other place you could end the season otherwise is Nick and Charlie at the beach, which would have a totally different effect.
I think the way that it’s framed by the web comic, with Sarah immediately making a joke about how Charlie can’t come with them on the trip, dissipated the tension enough and lead into the next bit perfectly so I just didn’t remember. Which also reminds me that the comic is much more low key and slice of life in general, so they made parts of it more dramatic - mostly because it’s a tv show and there are more expectations on it now, rather than because of fitting into a particular way of representing queer relationships.
@@emmakane6848 I get that maybe the problem is the classic 3 act structure, or the usual character arcs, but Nick coming out to his mom is the payoff to the setup of him exploring his identity. The story would literally work worse if the payoff wasn't treated like it's significant. It's a cathartic moment for Nick, if not the climax of his subplot - arc.
I'm certain that there are better examples you can pick than this one.
I'm not mad about that, personally. I know it's a departure from the book, but I don't think it's a downgrade necessarily. I like both of them. And I think the movie did a _lot_ of good for queer teens and the parents of queer teens, being what it was.
I went to see But I'm a Cheerleader: The Musical (its amazing everyone should go see it when it comes back this year), and I have to say how much Graham's Kiss, and Wrestling, were so emotive of what it is like to come out to yourself, they made me actually cry in the middle of this comedy musical.
The editing in this video of forcing your story into the pre-written narrative was an excellent and powerful choice. When you fought against the voice to continue telling your story I actually cheered! Your videos are so awesome!
heh, my coming out as trans story would do so badly in one of these teen dramas bc it went like this, I told my parents and they had lots of questions and doubts at first but still accepted it, my mom then off-handedly mentioned it in the family group chat and everyone just went with it without mentioning it to me at all.
It feels so idealistic because a lot of people do not have my privilege...but for me, coming out just wasn't that much of a big deal, and to many of my queer friends it wasn't either. But my story wasn't over by then at all. I still faced problems and had fights and all.
I’m glad your family was accepting. Mine has been too, and I now I’m lucky, but sometimes I feel bad that I’ve had this acceptance from my family but many of my trans friends haven’t. Sometimes I feel like I can’t really share my experience because some many don’t have that and I feel a little guilty because of it. It’s weird I know.
@@ausnetscience nah, I totally get that. But don't feel bad, your story isn't not worth telling just because it's a positive one, quite the opposite, it always warms my heart to hear about people that received the love and acceptance they deserved, and I try to pass that love on to those who unfortunately haven't.
It's so easy to think that we don't deserve any good because it makes others, or even ourselves, feel like we're not allowed to fight for recognition or acceptance anymore. But that's not true.
I’m sitting here crying, this video means so much to me. As someone who is on the younger side of things and who came out relatively recently (~2 years) I had never really been able to see my coming out story in the media. I felt like it had to be some big dramatic thing, but no, it was just me being like “hey parents, I’m ace”. I got a “cool” and life just went on. So when everyone else has these large coming out stories I feel kinda left out. I feel like we should really focus more on the coming out to ourselves part of the equation. It took me years to finally realise I was ace (lack of representation was REALLY NOT HELPING) and I think that was the time I felt the most loved was when I learned to love myself. I might not have had the tears and the hugs and big to-do when it came to coming out to my family, but when it came to myself that was when the tears were flowing. Thank you so much for making this video, you are truly doing good work and I wish my younger self had seen this.
This would be so effective as a stage performance, I love the off stage voice and the theatrical aspect of it, it's very powerful
I think that the idea that coming out is one moment can never be true. Coming out be a choice, or a lack of one, and people come out for many different reasons. There can never be a singular coming out movie that captures all experiences.
Lurrrrv the way you filmed this. I don’t remember coming out to my parents either, I do remember mentioning I had a girlfriend to my grandparents and being happily surprised that they didn’t treat that as anything unusual. I was more worried about telling my host mum in Italy cause their culture is not as queer friendly as in the UK speaking in very broad terms, but she was okay with it too, though I still feel like I have to act straight there when people ask if I have a boyfriend or whatever
For me, a lot of my experience was just slowly realizing my experiences were queer, especially my asexuality. It’s hard to realize something you don’t talk about much with friends and family. None of my friends really talked about it or expressed interest in it. And only after I found out, a couple years after that is when I learned just how sexualized our world really is. Being agender was another one that slipped under my radar for a good long while, but I definitely know one moment when I was maybe ~10 years old where I tried to come up with some way to identify as “nothing” and create a new set of pronouns for myself (I think I got distracted shortly after, but I do vividly remember that moment and think about it every once in a while)
NOBODY is asexual, you are doing drugs or taking prescription drugs that kill your libido, or you have been exposed to too many xenoestrogens
The thing about Love Simon is, it knew what it needed to be, and it did it well. It didn’t push the envelope or do anything too edgy or profound-it was just a simple idealized coming out story with a happy ending. And, considering it was the first gay teen movie by a major studio, I think that’s what it needed to be. It captured the most basic version of a coming out, was an overall good and sweet movie, and gave us the wish fulfillment aspect many of us secretly crave. Most of us don’t have the experience of growing up with happy loving families featuring rich, liberal parents who don’t hesitate to accept us… but I don’t think there’s a single person who hasn’t wished, at least once, that their life was that simple. It’s also one of the lowest barriers of entry for straight people who don’t understand what it’s like to be gay in daily life. So, personally, I think a lot of the media criticism for “Love, Simon” misses the point, or ignores it entirely. It was the necessary feel-good foundation we needed so that other experiences can be told. Now we can move onto more diverse and less simplistic or cliche stories.
Also, I still get goosebumps and tear up anytime I hear Jennifer Garner’s monologue. And I will not apologize for that-it’s the exact words I always wanted to hear, but never did. It healed me.
Excellent point. Reading between the lines of Rowan’s critique, I think she would probably admit that it’s a good thing the film was made when and where it was. It’s problematic aspects are mostly problematic because what it lacks isn’t provided in enough other stories of the “genre”.
The other thing that frustrates me about critiques of Love, Simon is that they seldom go on to mention Love, Victor - a three-season sequel show that addressed the issues that always bother people about Love, Simon. On Disney Plus, of all places!
Victor was a highschooler who was half Puerto-Rican and half Colombian-American, and in coming out, he experienced the regular high school stuff (he was on a sports team, had a girlfriend already, and so on), but also various culturally, religiously-specific ramifications of telling his loved ones who he was.
His parents had different reactions, with his dad had a reckoning with how all this complicated received wisdom about masculinities, but also got heavily into PFLAG. Victor's mum went through a whole process, from being very negative and rejecting, to becoming Victor's champion against a homophobic priest at their church.
It was the antithesis of "coming out as a one-off event", and through showing the ripple effects through Victor's social circle, with multiple queer characters of various races and genders (and also gender presentations - I loved that they showed Victor having relationships with both masc and femme guys), and Victor finding mentorship with Simon from the original film (now a student in NYC), the show avoided getting stuck in a single, one-size-fits-all portrayal.
I loved how they showed that even a kid like Benji, who was white and from an affluent background, could still have problems due to parents' high expectations - Benji was handling some very toughchallenges around substance use disorder and rehab, and the fact the show didn't just end on an "aww, they kissed, now everything is perfect" but went on to show this young couple dealing with really complex stuff was so powerful.
I also never thought I would see a Disney show where the teen gay protagonist is shown going to gay clubs, a seuxal health clinic, etc. I don't mean to dismiss the very valid criticisms people have made about Disney's - shall we say - *wavering* commitment to LGBTQ+ representationans rights, but this was one thing they really got right.
@@bioluminescentlyunfolding5716 are you from somewhere outside the US where Disney was forced to put all their media branches into the one platform because there were no other options for them? Or did Disney decide to actually move Love, Victor from Hulu to Disney Plus in the US even though it 'doesn't fit their brand'?
This isn't to say you don't have some good points. It's just that Disney actually wasn't getting it *so* right because they were pretty clear in the US that they didn't want Love, Victor on Disney Plus and instead shunted it to a different platform with a smaller audience. Especially one without the "family values" branding Disney has in the US. Apparently despite that Hulu saw a massive rise in subscribers and viewers because of the show--something Disney Plus might have benefited from since it was struggling with getting on its feet at the time Disney did all that.
Also, was the show created *by* Disney? Or is it like Netflix where another company produces a show and Netflix puts it on the platform? Because the former makes it a *Disney show* and the latter makes it a show *on* Disney Plus (or Hulu). I'm not as knowledgeable on that because I've never seen either Love, Simon or Love, Victor because I can't access Disney Plus or Hulu and have little money to buy the movie, so of course feel free to have a pinch of salt alongside your consideration of my reply here.
You said it. I'm tired of people critiqueing this movie for not being everything under the sun in terms of gay representation.
It was a step. A good step and an important step.
@@changelingreader14 I'm from the UK - we don't have Hulu here. So everything's on DisneyPlus, both Disney's in-house content, and stuff from other studios like Marvel and Lucasfilm that Disney has bought in the past dozen or so years.
I will always recommend the book Amelia Westlake. It’s about two girls in an Australian private school working together to expose corruption in their school and falling in love, and they’re both already out at the start of the story which was so refreshing for me to read when I read it as a teen
I loved how you just keep reminding all of us that we never came out once.
It's something I've been dealing with a lot lately and it always left me feeling kinda uneasy
It never gets easier, but you kinda learn when, how and to who say something
Also, as a kinda side note
I read somewhere someone saying they will be changing this "all straight default" to a "all gay default" in which they would see any media or get to know people thinking everyone is gay until someone says otherwise
And since then I been waaaay happier while watching series or reading books, shipping and making headcanons about the characters I see LOL
I just discovered your channel and damn I'm loving it. I'm not queer, I'm actually heterosexual, but I'm y'know, trying to learn and understand a lot of things from the community, and I really love this videos. Helps me a lot to build better stories and characters. Love your work sm, greetings from México! Saludos y gracias!
Edit: well well, looks like someone rushed to says "he's not queer". I came out as non-binary
I am asexual and aromatic and the only person I explicitly "came out" to is my boyfriend. Because I think he should know how I feel about him and us, but for everyone else it doesn't really matter. I have come out to some friends, because one girl asked about our crushes, and I have explained the flag to one of my other friends, but I really don't know how aware he is, that _I_ am asexual.
Generally I don't think it's important for others to know my sexuality, if they have wrong assumptions, that's not my fault. And coming out as Asexual does include explaining what that even is. On top of that, there is more to my feelings and identity that I feel comfortable telling most (if not all) people.
I didn't figure out I was pan until after I knew I was aro/on the ace spectrum. I grew up Conservative Evangelical Christian, pretty deep in purity culture so I assumed that I wasn't interested in sex because God was saving me for the right person, or some bs like that, and I would eventually grow out of it. Realizing that I experienced romance and sexuality differently from most other people went a long way toward realizing how shitty purity culture was and how gross it was to expect other people to live up to those standards just because it was easy for me. By the time I realized I was pan, I was already an atheist and in my late 20's. Being on the ace/aro spectrum made that complicated because I couldn't tell if I was actually attracted to all genders or if I was just equally apathetic towards all genders 😅. I couldn't figure out if I just wanted to ~be like~ women I admired, or if I wanted ~do~ them. I was having a hard time parsing out the difference between aesthetic attraction, sexual attraction, and admiration, so I finally just said, fuck it, if I'm having this hard of a time figuring it out, I must be gay, lol. I usually prefer to refer to myself as queer rather than using specific labels, but if the situation arises where I feel the need to explain a little more, I say "I'm not normally attracted to anyone, but I'm capable of being attracted to anyone." I still identify more heavily with being ace/aro than I do with being pan.
I don't usually feel the need to come out to people, but I think one of my favorites was when some friends of mine were joking about who, in our extended friend group, they would set up for each other to fuck. When they got around to to me, I realized that I didn't think I had mentioned anything about my sexuality with these friends yet, so I was just going to say "Oh, by the way, you don't have to say just men, I'll hypothetically fuck anyone." But I barely got the first word out before they waved me off and were like "Yeah, yeah, I know, let me think."
It’s such an ace experience, isn’t it? When you don’t feel those feelings the same way as other people, it’s really hard to know what your feelings mean.
Figuring out and exploring my exact sexuality and gender has been such a lengthy and difficult process, that I never had a true "coming out" so I could never relate to any of these stories. Coming out as an event feels so final, so dramatic. Like reaching the end of an arc of discovery. But for me that journey of discovery has been life-long. I've known I was queer, not cishet, since as early as I could even form memories, but figuring out exactly what my feelings were and what terms to use took so much longer that I never bothered. Everyone in my life has known I'm queer for years and I never really had to tell anyone. It's just a thing. I wish there were more stories about that exploration rather than treating like the coming out as the culmination of things, when it never really stops evolving.
I love this so much ! I do think we need coming out stories but maybe not just the same ones over and over again. As an asexual nonbinary trans guy in a gay relationship I came out many times about many different aspects of my identity to many different people and it was sooo different every time; with my asexuality I never sort of intended to come out - I'd just talk about it if it came up in the conversation (with the exception for dating apps)
and it was 9/10 very stressful since people are so unfamiliar with asexuality, so I always felt like I had to prove to them that I am what I am
then coming out as trans was insane because it all happened so quickly and unlike my asexuality coming outs it quite often was very brief, like "hey I'm trans, I use this name now and this pronouns" - "okay, cool", but when I wasn't met with that immediate acceptance it did feel like a bigger deal, like more threatening than if people just didn't believe I was ace
and with me being some flavour of gay (even I'm unsure exactly and don't really care at the moment) I didn't even come out, I just kept dating men like I did before (well, one man so far, I'm happily in a relationship)
and yeah with all those coming outs I would hardly be able to pick like "a climax scene", coming out as trans to my parents was a big deal, but also didn't happen over just one conversation, ad then that was not the only important coming out, I was equally worried about coming out to my coworkers, clients, grandparents, siblings, friends, phd prof and so on, it was like a solid month of work xd
Totally agree with you.
Also identify with a lot of what you’re saying because I came out as bi to a very supportive, queer, friend group before spending the next several years going back and forth about being nonbinary and on the asexuality spectrum. I don’t really feel like coming out again - because there isn’t really a natural way to do that, and this feels more personal/mine and I’m still not 100% sure about labels - which I don’t think I’ve ever seen represented on screen. Sometimes coming out is messy and sometimes it’s a thing people don’t want to deal with (or deal with again, in my case).
And that is perfectly okay. I wish that more people could understand that.
@@emmakane6848 Yeah, people think that if you don't come out it means you're lying or 'not living authentically' but you don't have to reveal everything about yourself to everybody always, we don't owe it to the world to come out
NOBODY is asexual, you are doing drugs or taking prescription drugs that kill your libido, or you have been exposed to too many xenoestrogens
@@georgewindsor2667 my libido is fine, thank you very much, especially since I started t
I am still asexual though because I don't experience sexual attraction which is very much not the same thing as libido
dude you a straight liar who pulled this asexual stuff for attention.
The voice-over second-guessing was so moving! Thanks for your embrace of vulnerability.
I had a pretty dramatic coming out [to my parents] and one of my gay mentors told me right after that “it never ends” when it comes to coming out. That prepared me for a lifetime of having to come out or choosing to stay closeted. Don’t think I’ve ever seen any kind of story that captures the reality of that type of “coming out”, sometimes it’s conflict, sometimes it’s objectifying, sometimes it’s just mundane. Would be nice to see that kind of queer story on display.
babes wake up new rowan ellis video essay just dropped
I simply ADORE your content, Rowan! For someone deeply interested in Queer Cinema, I mostly look at it from a personal experiential standpoint, so I love getting to watch your more analytical and theoretical insights
You brought up such a good point that many younger lgbtq people dont get to see. Its crazy how watered down gay films became from the late 90s to the 2010s. They were indie but they were praised festivals and by established directors for being bold and going beyond the coming out narrative. It was like after Brokeback came out Hollywood took over the idea of what was a "good" gay film by pumping out costly period gay romantic tragedy.
That voice from the off...👌👌👌yes, we need more queer stories, told by queer people, with radical acknowledgements of the inherent struggles!
could you please consoder doing a break-down of what happened between the fanbase of "the L-word OG" and the "gen Q" and all the lesbian frustration going on there? I think it has plenty of examples for "ornamental use of diversity actors", and may be a great study object for the generational changes between lesbians of the 2000´s and queers today...
I'm curious about that too. Just started watching the original L Word for the first time and I have a Tumblr post draft open because I'm having Many Thoughts about it all but I have no idea how certain aspects of it read to fans back then.
for me my fear of coming out to my parents was more a fear of being vulnerable. i don’t like opening up to people. i knew they would accept me i just didn’t want to have to tell them. i ended up texting them all three times i came out to them
my brother came out to me as gay in his 20s i remember we were in the driveway when he told me. most of the family was accepting and told him to never be ashamed of who you are. my sister came out later the same year while we were watching netflix.
I wish there were more general fantasy/adventure stories where characters who don't fit into cis or hetero society could just be themselves in the midst of a greater story without having to explain themselves or come out or be viewed at as unusual
I guess that's why I keep watching barbie movies lmao
As someone who is partially out to some family members, not out to others, but is out to all my friends, this speaks to me on a deep emotional level
I think another thing for people who are aro/ace spec is that there often isn't even a "coming out to yourself" Moment bc how can you have a moment of realization of *not* experiencing what most of the rest of your peers are?
Yes!! This is such a wonderful analysis. I do remember telling my mom and it was about a two second converstion. I was talking about a crush I had, mom was ranting about how I should watch myself around those ‘men’ and I said ‘It’s a girl, actually’. To which my mom said ‘oh’ and ended the conversation. I was a bit of an awkward dork so even years later my magical girlfriend I had been waiting for didn’t appear. My mom never turned on me in anger she just never said anything about it, she was one of those ‘ignore it’ parents and I think even if I was straight, my mom wasn’t the type to sit and have casual conversation with teens and young adults about relationships. Even more so when the conversation was queer. So I never got the big ‘acceptance’ hug or ‘kicked out of the house’. I just got the ‘we don’t really talk about it’ until she, unfortunately, got ill and passed away. It’s not the stuff of coming out media.
I also wouldn’t say ‘I always knew’ as I have had many ebbs and flows in my identity including questioning if I was bi. I have realized I am a bit more on the asexual spectrum hence my not high drive to have sex with anyone. And inability to even do it outside of a relationship with some substance. This isn’t some staunch discipline ignoring the carnal desires of attraction, I just don’t see anyone, even someone I acknowledge is attractive and ‘want’ them. I still tend to feel more interested in romantic bonds with women, I am not anti-romance I’ve just never been overly sexual. And I still don’t really know where that leaves me. The labels that ‘work’ have always been a work in progress.
Coming out to both yourself and parents and friends is such a complex experience and most coming out films are so overly simplistic. I think of coming out stories similar to the stories of the American abolitionist. A lot of abolitionist stage plays for example are just drenched in a lot of racism because they are about making black people palatable to a white audience usually written by and for white audiences. Same thing with Queer coming out stories, especially ones like ‘love Simon’ are for cis (usually white) people to see ‘the queer experience is just like your experience with a little twist.’ And I think those stories can be helpful for cishet people to stop being hateful. But what queer audiences really want and need are complex stories for us, by us that are okay with letting go of being relatable to cishet viewers. We’re kind of over it.
The miseducation of Cameron Post I also think did a good job of ending on unity between Queer characters instead of going to the ‘love story’ on the primary narrative. Great little film.
I'm so glad you're talking about it, "coming out" is not a one moment thing, what about the many parents (or other people for that mattr) who don't say "have you tried" but replied, "no you're not gay", just refuse to accept it, tell you you don't have authority to say your own identify, or refuse acknowledge you said anything & just change the subject anytime you try to talk about it.
The worst is probably being NB, having to come out over & over & over again, every day for the rest of my life, it's just too much effort, I want to be my identity, not have to perform it to the satisfaction of strangers every day of my live
Also, what I hate the most of the coming out stories in TV or film nowadays, is the straight peeople taking a paternalistic tone like oh, you're figuring out your identity now, well, I'm confident in MY identity so I can talk about how it is to be confident in my sexuality to you, it's the same thing. (saw that most recently in Fate: The Winx Saga...).
I really loved the absurd meta-narrative of the director interrupting your video 😁
One of my favorite parts of being part of the younger generation is that I’m starting to see some of the worst parts of heteronormative society begin to fade out. My gay awakening was assisted by queer friends who had been out since early middle school and cartoons with queer characters, and that’s really cool. I’ve even started to see [more] ads online that feature queer couples in the place of straight ones without making it the main marketing point of the ad. In public online spaces people use they/them pronouns for me if they’re not aware of my pronouns (even though my pronouns are she/they and I’m a cis girl), and that’s really cool. A lot of the world is still awful, but we see it evolving everyday.
I’d also like to add that the way the cartoon community has pioneered casual queer characters and couples in media is really cool. Being able to sort of grow up, even if it was during my teen years, with those positive influences has been really cool and helpful. And this is your friendly reminder from an avid cartoon enjoyer to go support non-heteronormative cartoons!!
My adhd derailed my other comment! One of the things I really love since the explosion of BL series, is the varied coming out narratives that play out (when they do). Since these are series, many get to explore the main characters coming out experience in multiple situations over time, so it ends up feeling far more genuine.
One thing I have really enjoyed seeing is the humanizing of beard characters while also not demonizing the queer guy for dating her. Not Me is a series that does this well.
I love how there is so much BL now that I can always find the exact kind of story I'm looking for five times in a row.
@@NoiseDay Agreed!
I didn't even come out to myself all at once. I talked to friends and partners for years about attraction/crushes on girls before I finally allowed that maybe this all meant I was bi. This was also about 4 years after my husband came out to me as bi.
it's been so frustrating that in my life, at some point I was always trying to apply a story or neat wrap-up to my coming out. I don't remember coming out to my parents formally, if it even occurred in one sitting, because it's been all the complicated converrsations and questioning between then and now that has taken precedence over that event in my memory. I had to come out to some people more than once because they forgot or otherwise didn't get it. And some people I just let them assume, or confirm if they ask, or whatever--and I don't remember everyone I came out to even if I feel like I should. It's just a lot of messy situational scenarios and it's a case-by-case basis, not a neat story.
i love how heartstopper, especially season 2, handles coming out so well. nick doesn't come out just once and he approaches different coming outs differently. coming out also isn't the sole focus of the show, there's characters who came out ages ago, were outed, may never come out to certain people and aren't even quite out to themselves. there's so many different experiences of queerness represented aand they're all shown as equally valid. queerness and coming out aren't represented as a monolith.
Im genderfluid. My pronouns shift day to day, and I'm comfortable with that. But I ignore that part. I intentionally ignore it and push it away because of everyone around me. When I had first come out I wanted to be my "true self", so I had a set of pronouns pins that I swapped from day to day. At first I would write them on my arm, since I didn't have those pins but I wanted something to show that things changed. But everyone around me was confused. My parents and brother (luckily supportive) would ask me every day what pronouns I had to support me, but other family and friends and everyone else around me got annoyed and confused with how it was constantly changing. People were especially confused and angry when I used the pronouns generally accepted with my assigned gender, because how could I be gender non conforming and still use those pronouns, even my queer friends thought that way. Today, I only use they/them with people who aren't that close. My parents have shifted to doing that as well. I've decided its easier this way, less confusing. It hurts a lot. I still have to come out every single day, reminding people I don't use feminine pronouns cause I've grown to being uncomfortable with them, but I still look really feminine. Thankfully my new friends do shift what pronouns they use for me, cause they all know how much it sucks.
I can't watch these queer coming of age and coming out movies because I can't relate to them. I can't relate to the "one and done" coming out scenes, where they come out once and everything is good. I just can't relate to any of them, ever. So thank you for making this video, which I relate to much more. Its so helpful to feel recognized and seen.
I'm genderfluid too and your story is so relatable! I've decided if and when I come out I will probably tell people I prefer not to use pronouns at all, they can just use my name instead. Less confusing because my name doesn't change itself constantly, and always accurate 😊
My realization that I wasn’t straight was surprisingly easy for me to find on my own and accept. I barely remember the vague timeframe it took place in, and it took me about a week to be sure that I definitely felt the way I did and be confident that there weren’t other pressing matters contributing to or causing my confusion. And I think it’s because of this that I never really understood coming out. I’m gonna be me for the rest of my life, so why do I owe it to other people to explain who I am and who I’m into? If/when they find out, so be it, but so far I’ve only actively come out to my old friend group and my two sisters. That’s it. If anyone asks, I’m not gonna lie, I just don’t see the point in making it a spectacle. It’s not like telling all your friends and family eliminates coming out either, there will always be someone to come out to because everyone assumes that everyone else is cis and straight. I guess that’s why I’ve never hated against, but also never really been invested in, stories that center around queer characters. Just let them be queer and get on with it
I also think it is important to show how even in the SAME family you can have more than one person come out as lgbtqia+ and have completely different experiences!
My sister came out as bi a couple years before me in the early 2000’s and I came out a couple years after that but because we only told our parents and not our siblings (4 of us altogether) we both didn’t know we weren’t alone. Also that once we did know we still were going through it on our own in our own ways.
Not only that but my mom also came out to us as Bi years later when I came out again at 19. So here we all were, a bunch of Pan/Bisexuals and for years we all didn’t even know it or talk about it.
Great video. Coming out stories are so unique that I think they'll just keep coming. Hopefully "the narrative" will evolve in the ways you suggest.
I came out accidentally when my friends and I were in Highschool discussing Gay Marriage in about 1990. I said something along the lines of "everyone's a little bisexual" and it took me a while to realize that I was doing what Heterosexuals do by assuming everyone felt the same way I did, and that I was actually Bi. (We were all chill about it, and one of them was also Bi and basically im the same place).
Second time: Waited to tell my parents until I actually had a boyfriend in my 20s because it felt like they didn't "nees" to know. Also fine with it. They knew gay people and it was just surprising, not bad.
My (now) wife outed me to her sister when she asked her opinion about dating a Bi guy after reading my online dating profile, before our first date!
We had a good idea that our son was not straight (and possibly not cis), I was out to him and we have several gay friends. Unfortunately, he outed himself via internet search history and downloads that he didn't know how to scrub and was WAY too young to be seeing. We kept it vague at first but essentially had to confront him because it continued even after being warned and was of a specific nature that it had to be addressed head in. Not the way I wanted that to go. That was about three years ago and he's still sorting it out himself.
I would love more media that was age appropriate that didn't follow such rote tropes. The movie/visual media is much more limited than the books/comics/manga out there. It's complicated.
My first coming out was just cringe. I copied something I saw on the internet where someone wrote gay on a cookie and then said “you are what you eat”, except my writing was unintelligible so none of my family knew what I was doing. I wish I could redo that moment. It was just embarrassing more than anything.
I'm agender and aroace and I never wanted to make a big deal behind my coming out, as it was a major source of anxiety for me.
I wanted it to be casual, so I started with close friends. I think it was easier for me, especially as some of my friends are queer themselves. I changed my name in our group chat to my chosen name after a while (it took a long time for me to get to that point, over a year), but I did it and I am so relieved that my friendgroup accepted me.
I'm loving the WandaVision thing you're doing here.
People ask if we still need coming-out stories, but they never ask if we still need anti-war stories, women empowerment stories or punishing the bad guy stories. Does the preoccupation with these staples of media not feel stale?
Loved this video and how you played with the editing/formatting-would be interested to see more in this style from you in the future!!
Genius editing
Bobby (Iceman) in X2 is a great reference as the character eventually is written as gay in the comic books.
Love the voiceover critic in the background. She’s a vibe 😁
your essay writing skills are incredible, it's so well worded and gets across a lot of information efficiently
“Look sadder! Could you cry?” Lmao
Yup. Sometimes I just want a Romance/Drama/Comedy or even Sci-fi based on relatable characters without having to go through the coming-out script again. I mean, it has a time and place to help the kids get a sense of the range of responses they may encounter the first few times they do it, but after you have personally come out a dozen or so times its 'entertainment' value is, shall I say, diminished...
My coming out wasn’t a big dramatic moment. It sure as hell felt like it to me, but my parents weren’t that phased. It kinda just happened.
i actually had a pretty similar experience to the anecdote you shared in the beginning of the video. at age 12 i was in a class about teaching leadership skills and confidence, and the teacher had us stand on desks to show how much we agreed with certain topics (the higher you were, the more you agreed, etc.). and at the question "if you're a boy and your friend came out as gay, or if you're a girl and your friend came out as a lesbian, would you still proudly be friends with them?" i feel as though i was probably the only one who stood on their desk. at the very least, i did it with no hesitation (after asking someone what the word 'lesbian' meant lol).
one thing you don't mention that i think we definitely need is more trans coming out stories specifically. Umbrella Academy did a pretty good job with Elliott Page's character, and i think we need to see more of that to help young trans kids and potentially help the cis people in their lives understand transness better and how to genuinely show support and affirmation. i remember someone saying the trans coming out in Umbrella Academy was "unrealistic" because he was met with a wave of acceptance, but being accepted upon coming out as trans is not unrealistic. it may be rare (i can't say for sure) but it does happen, and it can be helpful to trans people to see that.
I came out to my mom right before going on a hiking trip with my sister that was meant as inspiration for a graphic novel I wanted to make for my masters project. When I told my teacher and classmates about it upon coming back the teacher kept focusing on that aspect which, while significant, wasn't the only point of the story. Even when my classmates asked about the other important facts he kept going back to that.
I felt extremely uncomfortable the whole time.
Usually i find the "no word's are needed approach" works best. In the wild i use my phone case with a pride sticker on it to do the work, in the office I'll just off handedly mention my husband to new comers if the topic (which always) comes up.
You're spot on with the forcing queer kids into a cishetero norm. The absence of community in these stories is particularly glaring, as becomming a part of the community is a major milestone for most queers. And as you say, erasing that also erases the political questions ones' newfound identity poses.
Putting an ad break right after the fade-to-black was a masterstroke.
Thank you for this. I'm 42 and I only came to understand myself this past year because I engaged in some deep reflection. I've come out a few times, but nothing big. Thank you for your normalization of the variety and the choice. I'm still not out to my parents. Thank you for what you do.