I'm reading Wot right now and i don't want give up. But man, i can't stand one more chapter with Elayne and Nynaeve. Too much shouting, blushing and "tugging of braid" for me.
"Yay Lan is back!" "Boo he has like a dozen lines in this book." My man, it's Lan we're talking about. Lan has had like a dozen lines in his entire life.
"If you say so," Lan said mildly. Nynaeve quivered. "Don't you take that tone with me!" she shouted. "I tell you, I'm not angry! Do you hear me?" "Blood and ashes, Nynaeve," Mat growled. "He doesn't think you're angry. I don't think you're angry." A good thing women had taught him to lie with a straight face. "Now could we go upstairs and fetch this bloody Bowl of the Winds?" Love Mat!
I *loved* the apology stuff. The way Nynaeve and Elayne tell the story to both Birgitte and Aviendha expecting backup, only to get blindsided by "Sorry, you did what?" is brilliant. And I don't think you're right that it didn't mean anything to Mat - he's had a lot of points where he's griped about how he saved them all and got shit for it, but I think drunk Mat talking to Birgitte was completely honest. He doesn't want to be fawned over for what he did - much as it may be worth it - he quite honestly just wanted an apology. So the instant he GETS that apology (or...as close as he knows Nynaeve can physically get to an apology :D ) he's gracious enough to let it go and say its all fine. It didn't really matter to him *what* it was about, but rather the way he'd been treated and the lack of acknowledgement it was wrong. Well. That and to annoy Nynaeve. :P
@@mikesbookreviews that pride and stubborness lead her to have a scene later on, the golden crane one, that absolutely made my eyes water, and also made me love Nynaeve above every other girl in the books beside Min. So much so that on re-reads I just go "ha, classic Nynaeve"
One of the things I love about this series is that characters, like Elayne and Nynaeve, aren’t always likeable, but in my opinion, they are realistic and well-developed.
They have grown but her disregarding the lives of the 2 men there to protect her really annoys me. It's never full circle, maybe they develop this but it's just evil. Edit: only on book 8 if u spoil I will find you :)
Just finished the book...as is my ritual when I complete a book in the series - I jump to your channel to watch your discussions. I love this series and I am so glad I found your channel. Great vid!
I do the same, when I finish a book I watch some reviews/ sump up, to fix it in my mind and make sure nothing of importance slipped through the cracks. I'm now on beginning of book 1o, and sad to get closer to the last Jordan (only) book. (Or the day after/ some hours later. Very often I just can't stop and literally jump to the next book, already ready on my nearby pillow)🍃
I never noticed the “slog”. The only book that really felt like the story was unnecessarily slowish was crossroads of twilight. Absolutely fantastic series. Loving these reviews it’s really helping me remember the best parts of the series vividly. The last three books in the series are 10/10s for me. A memory of light is my favorite. Such an epic and perfect conclusion. Keep up the amazing work with these videos Mike!
I agree but I guess I also read the books after book 4 when they came out and reread the prior novels when they dropped. I just enjoy the time in the world even if the 7-10 arent as high on my list as the prior 3 however some really awesome crap happens in these books like Winter's Heart with Rand. But I do agree with Mike, Morgase is slow and I dont love her chapters or her character really.
I like that in true Nynaeve fashion when it comes to her EF crew, she was the only one that didn’t laugh at Mat’s assault and stood up for him by talking to Tylin (even though it didn’t work).
One of my favorite things about this book is that the death of Nalesean made me realize how much I have come to love some of these more tertiary characters without even knowing it, his death was a real blow to me the first time I read it 20 years ago.
i literally just finished this book last night and i actually teared up at his death and was saying “fuck! No! No! fuck!” and my boyfriend was like “who died?” 😭😭
I think the problem though is that Mat didn't seem to process the loss. A guy who followed Mat put his life in his care and he kind of just shrugs off the news of his death too easily like I wanted some real hatred for the Golhum for killing his man. Same with the 2 bodyguards in the boat that died Mat doesn't seem to grieve at the loss of his men only that Nynaeve survived without a scratch. You want the character to really feel the loss this isn't Disney they aren't coming back.
@@bartsullivan4866 Not sure its in this book but you absolutely do see Mat react to this loss. He tends to try and gloss over emotional stuff in his PoV, and he also has a soldier mentality of being used to death so he does not get super upset about every man that dies. But you can see the responsibility weigh heavily on him when he is around his men.
Something to remember is that Robert Jordan had notes upon outlines upon thousands of words describing the last few books, so if you notice any changes in how characters are used it will not be because Brandon "fixed" them, but because that's how Jordan planned it all along. Of course he had to figure out how to write it down in book form, but it was Jordan's ideas and plan. Loved this video. Love to hear about the wheel of time!
That's fair. "Fixed" is probably a poor choice of words by myself there. Looking forward to the second half of the journey. Thanks for watching/commenting!
Regarding the two wounds. Rand's wound from Ishamel left him with a nasty scar, a wound which won't properly heal, which is infused with the evil of the Dark One. The dagger with the ruby hilt, which Fain uses, is infused with the evil of Shadar Logoth (which is dark, but opposed to the Dark One). So Cadsuane keeps him alive (she's with him to heal him immediately), but then Dashiva (the Ashaman healer) pulls the evil of the two wounds together and makes them both fight one another, kinda negating both. Regarding the Balefire in Shadar Logoth... there's more going on there. It's actually one of the single most important moments in the whole series.
Hi Mike!! Really enjoyed your video and thoughts on the book as well as the entire series. I apologize if my comments tend to turn into a wall of text, but hey, as I've mentioned before, it's my favorite series. If it gets to be too much, let me know and I'll try and cut these down in the future. There are a few things to remember when reading WoT books and one of the more important ones is the unreliable narrator. Matt's view of himself is clearly distorted. Pay attention to how he talks about the bad habits Olver is developing and it's obvious the boy is picking them up from Matt himself. Matt is a womanizer at heart. He may think he treats women with perfect respect, but this clearly isn't how many of them view him. You see this most clearly in how the supergirls, Egwene, Elayne, and Nyneave think of and treat Matt. They do not appreciate him specifically because of his combination of always looking to avoid responsibility and wandering eyes and hands. They are aware he's Ta'veren, but do not know about his memories. They think he's in charge of the army solely because he's the Dragon Reborn's friend. They apologize to him at both Aviendha's and Birgitte's urging, but neither is really convinced they 'should.' Elayne does so only to preserve her relationship with Aviendha and Nyneave is browbeaten into it (which is actually hysterical when you consider Nyneave's personality). Matt actually appreciates the apology, but surprise, he can't resist twitting them a bit by acting as if it's no big deal. This backfires when Nyneave ends up yelling at him AGAIN (while he's suffering a huge hangover 😂) Even with all of that, you are not alone in having a tough time with Matt and Tylin's relationship. She chases him (which he thinks is improper, he's the one supposed to be doing the pursuing), she corners him and ultimately forces him. What isn't obvious but I believe was actually intended by Jordan was that, yes, Matt was attracted to her. Had she not been the queen, he'd have happily looked to bed her. This doesn't excuse the rape which appears to have been written for laughs. The entire "relationship" just has not aged well at all. You have commented and are not alone in your view that Jordan doesn't do relationships very well. Like a lot of things in the WoT, the buildup for many of them is not always obvious. You specifically mention that Nyneave and Lan come out of nowhere in book 1. On reread of the EOTW, they really don't. There are tons of subtle hints that Nyneave is very attracted to Lan. Lan also goes out of his way to compliment her skills (which for a taciturn character says something about his attitude about Nyneave). For Nyneave, who has had to scratch and claw for every bit of recognition in part because she still looks like she's barely twenty, this is like pouring gas on the fire of her attraction. Pay attention to the subtle blushes and the hemming and hawing when thinking of love interest. It's subtle, but there if you are looking for it. With that, let's talk about everyone's least favorite relationship, Faile and Perrin. First caveat, I'm not Faile's biggest fan either, but on some of the podcasts I listen to, they've made a point that we generally see their relationship from Perrin's eyes. Perrin can smell emotion. Faile actually rarely acts out in a jealous manner, but cannot control the way she smells. Perrin then reacts, not to anything she's done, but solely to the emotions he smells. This almost always backfires and just leads to more jealousy (who wants to be told they're being jealous, especially when they haven't actually done anything?) It may not make you like Faile, but I do feel I understand her reactions a bit better. I will try and explain balefire without giving any spoilers. If you remember, Moraine has a talk with Rand about balefire and why it is so dangerous. What makes balefire confusing is it essentially involves time travel. Anything affected by balefire stops existing before it is struck by said balefire. The more balefire used, the longer in time is removed. Rand balefires Rahvin so hard that everything he'd done for the last hour or two was wiped away. That's the only reason Matt, Aviendha, and briefly Asmodean come back. When Moghiedien balefires the boat, the part of the boat struck stopped existing before it was hit. This meant that instead of water flooding in now, it actually had been flooding in for a minute or two. Balefire also has a very bad effect on the pattern itself. It was mutually agreed at the end of the previous war that both sides stop using it, not because they wanted to spare their enemies, but because both sides realized it might unravel reality if they continued to use it unchecked. The Dark One would be fine with this but most of his followers would object. Rand and the stranger crossing the streams will have huge repercussions, but you'll have to wait a bit for those details. Watch the Sanderson theory confirmed video only after finishing the entire series I still had four or five things I wanted to comment on, but this is already a dissertation 😜 Again, I'm really enjoying your reviews and reactions as you read my favorite series for the first time.
This is a comment in length that Robert Jordan himself would be proud of. And never feel like you need to shorten a comment. I read every single word. Thanks for taking the time. Now, let me see if I can get to all of these. 1) I keep telling myself to remember the rule of the unreliable narrator. GRRM and Joe Abercrombie taught me this and sometimes I forget to apply it. I can somewhat see that for Mat, but being a handsome young man that loves him some ladies, well I'm not going to wish a sexual predator on him to teach him a lesson. I thought it was poor form to have the Supergirl laughing about it and that's fine. In a series this long there are going to be some things that don't stick the landing for me. 2) I figure I would see the early seeds planted in regards to Lan/Nynaeve on an EotW re-read. It was more the surprise of "this dude doesn't talk much and now he's Romeo? Whoa." 3) Faile has never really bothered me like the rest of the fandom. I joke about her jealousy, but it's more of me being bitter that it has made Perrin a one-note character that only cares about Faile and nothing else. It's like when your best friend starts dating someone new and you never see them anymore. 4) I understood the whole concept of Balefire, even if it starts to hurt your brain after a minute, but it was more of the crossing the beams part I didn't get. I feel like RJ was way too smart to contradict himself by making continuity errors.
Personally, I read the part where Matt is chased sexually as commentary about on male abuse. I don’t feel like its really played for laughs. Yes, everyone is laughing at Matt, but it very clearly bothers him. In the real world men are often ignored when they report domestic or sexual abuse by women, even laughed at. People often say they should be flattered to be receiving that attention, which leads to emotional abuse. So its a complicated situation. Mat is absolutely into it on a sexual level. Thats very clear. With the unreliable narrator it is not clear whether he could actually say no and leave the relationship. I mean, I get the sense that he might have been able to break it off and end the relationship …if he really, fully committed to it. (He would also have to stop having sex with her and he likes her so he is conflicted on this). There is enough of an element of fear that he might not be able break it off and that she might actually keep him as a sex slave that it definitely gets uncomfortable, but I would argue that it explores that type of relationship in a relatively unique way by swapping the expected gender of each role. From later books I get the impression that some of this is a sort of BDSM type of roleplay that they are both doing. Its a game, but a dangerous game that leaves you wondering if its really a game sometimes.
I've said it on other people's reviews. I always felt that Jordan was going to reveal at the end of the series that he was going to make it that the whole wheel of time series was written by Loial. Just always pictured some scene after the last battle. Just felt like it would have been right.
Entertaining as always! Seems you loved Mat so much in this book, Narg thinks it’s only fair to warn you that Mat’s cliffhanger ending doesn’t get resolved in Path of Daggers. PoD was/is much maligned because people want Mat and feel let down when they don’t find out what happened to him. Other than that Narg thinks you’ll enjoy PoD, as it answers some of your questions and is INO a short quick read with some great moments spread throughout.
Narg! Thanks for commenting/watching. Big fan. Miss you on Twitter. In my LoC review someone let it spill in the comments that Mat was completely absent in PoD, so I'm ready for that. I'm still following your Reddit page, so keep up the great work!
I just finished the book (I always watch your reviews after I finished a WoT book). The most disturbing scene for me in the whole series, when Aran'gar massaged Egwene's face. It was so creepy.
Love the reviews man! And I agree, when Tylin assaults Mat it’s absolutely horrible. I hated that part. I just read through the book a second time and this time I read Elayne and Nynaeve laughing off the assault as an analog to victim shaming. They’re both just ways of disempowering the victim... It’s a horrible look for the wonder girls, but probably fairly accurate to the reality of how these situations play out a lot of the time :/
Right. Some suggest that if Mat wanted to stop it he would/could have. Again, if the roles were reversed and say some king was using his power and influence, as well as a dagger, to do something like this to Min or someone and then when she talked about it Matt, Rand, and other guys laughed about it there would be calls for this book to be banned.
@mikesbookreviews I think that is what Jordan was going for: he wanted to show something that wasn't OK that is so often a powerful man and a younger woman, to shed light on how awful those situations are.
I first started reading this series over 20 years ago, with many re-readings along the way. I've been watching your reviews because I love hearing other perspectives on the series, and the view you have that just has me on the floor is your idea that Nyneave should be Amyrlin. Egwene's development is one of my favourite in the series, so my enthusiasm to see if your viewpoint changes as you get further along is making me almost as impatient as I was when I was waiting for each book to come out. I know I could jump ahead to your reviews of later books, but I'm really enjoying the build up. Still, I'm gonna keep bingeing your videos hoping you eventually come around to admitting what a great leader Egwene is!
I was really suprised with WOT 7 with how much I enjoyed it. I really struggled to get through WOT5+6, but both those books had amazing endings that saved it for me. Am I going to be one of those people who enjoy the "slog" more than the fan fav's. We will see.
I'm honestly glad someone else shares my view of "The Fires of Heaven". I liked the ending of that book, but so far, it has been the slowest book in the series to me. It worried me a bit when I finished it and saw online that everyone else seemed to think it's one of the top three books. I honestly got nervous that I might not like the rest of the series if that was one of everyone else's favorite. But, I found Lord of Chaos and Crown of Swords to be much more to my liking.
Just finished this book. I look forward to getting done with one of these books so I can watch your review. This was my favorite book of the series so far and the one that finally hooked me on the series. Now I want to go back and read he previous books, but I’ll finish the series first.
Mike, I love your reviews! There's no one in my friends or family who have read WoT, so I don't have anyone to talk to about the series. Listening to your reviews and going along the journey is cathartic in a way. I'm still a few books behind you, but I'm determined to catch up haha I definitely agree with you about the Power Puff Girls, but I despise Perrin chapters almost as much (controversial, I know ). There's only so much "don't call me a lord" or "mah Faile" that I can stomach! I used to hate Mat, but he shot up to my number two with this book, second only to the Lord Dragon himself. I could type up a lot more, but you need all the time you can spare to finish the series before JordonCon. Keep up the reviews and thank you!
I've always thought that Jordan deliberately set up the thing with Mat and Tylin to be super uncomfortable, the way you are responding is exactly what he wanted.
@@mikesbookreviews Yeah, I find that confusing too. It's rape, and I like that it's an actual depiction of a man being abused by a woman in popular literature. I don't like that our culture of toxic masculinity leads to so many people denying the clear facts.
Hey finally :) Glad to see you getting back to these! This is one of my favourite of the books I think. Loads of Mat, and for me its where the wonder girls really start to grow up, and become more bearable. I read somewhere that Jordan said he based all the female characters on his wife. Which since she was reading them as his editor, makes me almost suspect the series is in part a multi-million word thesis on "see, this is what you are like!" :) The Mat rape scene is odd, and I think it's probably something that hasn't aged well. I've read people making all sorts of claims about it - that it intentionally uses role reversal to highlight how women who are raped have to deal with their sexual history being used against them as justification. But I'm not convinced. I read the book when it came out, and I know I just thought it was funny. The complete lack of condemnation for Teslyn from anyone, including Mat once he gets used to the idea, doesn't make me feel that it was meant to be more than slightly uncomfortable situation for Mat. Who's now learnt a valuable lesson that women in other cultures can be more forceful than he's used to, and can go forward wiser in the ways of the world.
RJ marrying his editor explains the length of some of these novels, ha ha. I realize now that folks seem divided on the Mat/Tylin thing, but it was more the Supergirls laughing about it than the event. Hated that.
The fight between Rand and Perrin began as a staged fight (Rand sent him to retrieve the "Prophet.) But Perrin chose the wrong thing to argue about and it turned into almost a real fight.
I love this alot, I have ADHD and struggle with reading as im fighting my thought just wondering off ALL the time. So i really appreciate these reviews/summary as often I can miss things. Looking forward watching the other reviews when I finish those books
YES! My Dude, back at it with more WoT! Huge fan of the series, cannot even say how many rereads I have done. That being said, I love your reviews because your thoughts mirror mine on my first reading. Cannot stress enough how much this series was built for rereads. A couple points: RJ is not good at writing romance.. as you said in the first book Nynaeve kept saying how she can't stand these people, but would have an after thought about Lan is not so bad. As for Mat, I took it not so much as Stockholm syndrome but as an uncomfortable relationship. Hes old fashioned and does not like being not in control. Balefire, is confusing AF! But it is important that it's said several times that it was forbidden. It's a paradox and has made me as a reader say out loud "HUH?" Several times. Cadswane (sp?) Is 100% a crap dollar store Moraine. I dislike her more and more with each reread. Slog? I had no idea that people thought there was NOT a slog.. its coming, be strong. Sanderson is the man, no question, and hes does a great job.. but if you like Mat, I feel like you might feel a bit jarred when he takes over. Keep at it man love your videos👍
Every time I start to think about Balefire I end up saying "ouch!" and holding my temples. I mean, I get how it works. Time travel/time disruption can start to get really confusing when you dwell on it. So many variables. LOL I agree on Cadsuane.
Going through these videos after finishing the series for the first time, I'd forgotten how much had happened by the end of book 7! And so much great stuff to come. What a journey. I'm a future re-reader in the making.
I have a slightly different take on the Supergirls' reaction to Tylin's power rape festival that is more grounded, I feel--and thus makes them MORE hateful. When you think of what they have always thought of Mat--a man-boy rogue and lazy rascal--they probably thought he was exaggerating the situation. They didn't even want to hear his side of things. Also, Elayne and Nynaeve can be very naive. While readers know better, those two think he is just out for dances and pinching bottoms or stealing kisses. Not exactly welcome behavior, but he also never raped anyone. Anyway, they probably thought Tylin was grabbing a fistful of ta'veren rump roast and that was all--at least at first. I think Mat was the best character to pick for this treatment, too--not because it was some apt punishment, but because of the psychological horror. Mat is the one who possesses the freest spirit in the whole series. He doesn't want to be bound in marriage, bound to the wheel, bound to fate... I think if he could, he'd spit in the face of the Creator as willingly as into the face of Shai'tan. Anyway, yeah... it's gross and wrong, and I hope it isn't left out of the show at all. We see what can happen in a patriarchy, and there's nothing saying it wouldn't happen in a matriarchy, albeit reversed.
I think this is actually such a key thing... No matter which sex controls the "archy"... There will always be people that abuse it. Lanfear, Semirhage, Messana are just as terrifying as Ishamael, Aginor or Rahvin. It's not your gender that determines your morality, but rather how you handle the power you've gained.
Once again, I’m very late to this party but I’ve enjoyed coming to these as I finish each book. I’m with you when you said you expected Rand to get knocked down. It seemed like attacking Sammael right after waking up was doomed to fail especially with the new wound; I was actually shocked and confused when that whole bit ended. I overall enjoyed this book as much as the others and I read it the fastest. Looking forward to catching up to the next video after Path of Daggers.
As far as the way Mat was written in that particular scene is very realistic to the way it happens in the real world. I think that was his way of being a males rights advocate. Notice that the sexes are mirror imaged in the book. I read ot as his way of bringing attention to how males are treated vs female. If a female makes a claim like that people come out of the woodwork to help, if its a male it is something to be joked about. This isn't something new, it has always been that way. The way Mat deals with it is one of the reasons why Mat's character is so loved. He has such bad luck with everything except betting and battle. Plus he is a natural smartass/ rascal. Fun character.
I always viewed Nynaeve as immature, however after the balefire attack on the boat, where she finally overcame her block, I found it outrageous that she didn’t want Mat told about the death of his men. She seemed to become a bridezilla from a reality tv show. Two men guarding her have died in an attack aimed at her & she wants no mention of it. These deaths seem to mean nothing to her, odd for a Healer. Her only concern is being a newlywed & this seems to carry on with her character as the story progresses. I can’t believe Lan would not be utterly ashamed & embarrassed by this attitude of hers towards two soldiers who died protecting her. What do you think of Nyneave not wanting Mat told about his two men?
Your WoT reviews are the best. I love how in depth they are, and how organized your thought process is. I've just finished this book and I think that the guy in the end was Dermondred (sp?)- we know the forsaken are competing with each other and it makes sense to me that he'd want to help Rand kill Sammael.
Thanks! That's why WoT reviews are the only ones I do full spoilers for because I have to get these thoughts out of my head. Interesting theory. A very good one, to be honest.
This book is where she turns the corner. Her problem is she has to keep up the rage in order to channel. since she breaks her block in this book, she starts to grow up fast.
Mike's Book Reviews I mean, there are hundreds of cool moments throughout the series... Easy to do. Loving watching your journey through these books. Keep 'em coming.
First of all absolutely GREAT video! Second, Min is by far my favorite companion of Rand, and he would not have made it without her. Now, Rand's wound is basically two horrible evils that are polar opposite's...like opposing magnets, so the new wound didn't turn him into an "avocado" because the dark one's wound started fighting Fain's wound immediately, and will continue to do so, but both evils will continue to attack Rand. As far as Balefire...think of Doc's warning to Marty McFly in Back to the Future about doing things in the past that change the future. Balefire completely erases it's victim from the pattern if used too long, as well as erases the things that person has done which can have a huge spider web effect in the pattern. Non Book Example...if someone just blew up a whole town, then someone killed that person with powerful enough Balefire, the town would be alive again, and that person would be erased from the pattern forever. To end, Cadsuane is to Rand what the Wise Ones are to Egwene.
About the wound from Fain's dagger, the reason it was so slow is because it was exactly over the old wound. And even with Cadsuane's healing he basically dead before (I think it is) Narishma not exactly heals it but he in essense "quarantine" the two wounds. Neither will ever heal, but they cannot spread.
Erik Ödlund I see. I had it, more or less, comparing it to Frodo’s wound in LotR. I just wasn’t sure I understood the whole pitting the wounds against one another thing. Thanks!
I really like Elayne she's not perfect, but that's point she can make mistakes and learn from them and she uses the one power in a very smart and fun way and she cares about her friends...that's my unpopular opinion 😎
thank you for the review. great. reliving the book together with you. finish the book and cannot wait to listen to what you have to say about it. thumbs up.
The Balefire thing explination was actually recently confirmed by Sanderson, but you should wait to read it until after finishing as it has spoilers for the ending of the books
@@mikesbookreviews He is right you should wait it until finish it. But don't worry!! You will find out everything about balefire by yourself. Sanderson comfirmed a "THEORY" didn't re-describe balefire. You will understand balefire by just reading books.
I think you're correct about literally everything except that Nynaeve should be Amyrlin instead of Egwene. Egwenee is competent as Amyrlin because she spent a ton of time with the wise ones so her view of the world is different. She actually cares to listen to advice and manipulate around Romanda/Lelaine/Sheriam. Nynaeve wouldve been deposed within the first week because of her attitude towards literally everyone and the whole situation is generally unstable. Same with Elayne and her being raised as a princess. Nynaeve and Elayne wouldve also shit on Siuan's advice completely probably because she used to be mean to them. And also Egwene had much more sway with Moghedien, much more intimidation there.
I think characters such as Perrin seem to drop out for periods not because Jordan was "finished" with them but because he conceived of this thing not as a set of fourteen novels but as one very long tale, and threads from an early book can go unmentioned through several before being picked back up again, but they do get picked back up. One slightly confusing factor (but possibly unavoidable in such a large tapestry) for me was the chronological skipping around, the way I could be reading one chapter and suddenly realize from concurrent events, that this is happening at the exact same moment as such and such, hundreds of pages back and in a completely different book.
Agreed! I couldn't believe how good this book was- expecting a slog and there wasn't one. In fact it felt faster paced than lord of chaos... It's one of my top 3 so far- with the great hunt and fires of heaven
Awesome review! I cant say the Mat and Tylin scenes bothered me much. It was definitely on my mind as i was reading it, but i kept in mind the setting of Ebu Dar - it was stated women could kill a man and no one would bat an eye. Not only that but once I removed myself from the 'grossness' those were fun reads, the way Jordan does but doesnt say what they do is really good, particularly the last encounter with Tywin where she kisses him then it cuts to Mat walking away on shakey legs and tucking his shirt in. Thats not to say I dont see peoples problem with it and agree with them. Still, if this was written today I'd have different opinions I think
I can appreciate a different POV on the topic. I just don't have much more to add that I didn't already say. I get why Jordan did it. It just didn't work for me.
The whole thing about Mat and Tylin is written to cause the reaction of anger and disgust you had. Some of the younger readers almost found the whole thing amusing or trivial, but in general the older readers totally understood this was a rape and power abuse. The initial reaction of Elayne and Nynaeve can be blamed in part on Mat’s tendency to lie or exaggerates and pull off pranks harming seriously his credibility, and in part on their naive denial that a woman in power could really do such a thing, the way Mat described it happened. Mat himself can’t really accept it, thus his Stockholm syndrome. All his life he’s been around strong, bossy women, but this is the first time one of them crosses the line and abuses him. This will leave scars (as you know, I think you’ve finished it all by now).
I think i might have liked this one (as a whole) more than 5 and 6. It definitely moved faster for me and does great stuff with Rand, Mat and Min's characters especially.
I'm sure somebody has answered by now, and I'm sure you've also finished the series, but the 2 wounds that "battled each other" are battling because Shadar Logoth is a specific kind of darkness that is even different from the Dark Ones taint. And considering Shadar Logoths power, and the fact that Myrddraals avoid it, it shows that it isn't weak or a laughing matter to the shadow. It's it's own being separate from the light and the dark, and that's why they battle to see who can overtake Rand. I'm on Path of Daggers and I've had minor spoilers and that's my assumption of it.
Explaining the wound from the dagger. Shadar Logath wasn’t evil to begin with. However, the city took the methods of the Shadow to fight the Shadow. The evil of that city is different than the evil of the shadow. It’s an evil bred to fight the shadow. Since Rands original wound is of the shadow, and his second wound is of Shadar Logath, the second wound fights the first, well... first. Both are evil, but theirs evils aren’t complementary... until Padin Fain unites them. Machin Shin, Shadar Logath, and the Shadow.
The original wound has the Dark One's evil contained in it. The Padan Fain wound has Shadar Logoth/mordeth/ Padan Fain evil in it (or something like that). Different evils fighting each other. At least that's what i seem to remember.
I didn't think the Mat/Tylin relationship was supposed to be taken too seriously by the reader, thus why some would call it comic relief. It's odd with Jordan though. Some relationships feel real, some feel like fairy tales. It can be hard to adjust. Another thing occurred to me; that it was not taken seriously by the girls to specifically point out that people don't take it as seriously in the real world when men are the victims. I don't think there's anything in this series that should be dwelt on too much, but it's definitely one of a number of things in WoT that seems to have people split.
I always thought that cover was Lan pulling Nyneave out of the River Eldar when her ship sank. She had started wearing jewelry like Cadsuane and Lan's hidori is another clue.
Honestly only slog i found was in book 9 and 10. A few chapters in book 9 where egwene walked around the army camp outside tar valon doing nothing but internal dialog that had no impact on anything relevant IMHO. Then book 10 had 2 chapters where I felt the same. But 5 chapters out of the whole series is not bad at all. My favorite series of all time as of now.
I don't want to comment too much on the old wounds fighting each other (I feel the reference the other commenter made to future books is already too much), but I can explain a bit why it is they fight each other. The first wound Rand got in his side was from the sword used by Ba'alzamon aka Ishamael. The poison of Pure Evil that has been slowly killing him came from the Dark One. This new wound is from the ruby-hilted dagger. The poisonous Evil is the Evil of Shadar Logoth. This was an evil that was created _in opposition_ to the Dark One. Mordeth taught the people of Aridhol to hate the Dark One and the Forces of the Shadow so much that they became an evil (Mashadar, the Mist of Death) pretty much as big as the Shadow, yet also opposed to it. If it helps, it's kind of like the duality between _saidin_ and _saidar_ (except completely different). _Saidin_ and _saidar_ are diametrically opposed to one another, yet they both drive the Light, as well as the Wheel of Time. Shadar Logoth and Shai'tan are sort of that, but on the evil side.
The dagger wound from Fain would normally have killed someone but as you said in the review, it is fighting the evil of the wound Rand got from Ba'alzamon in TGH. That's why it didn't insta-kill Rand before Damar saved him And this is spoiler-ish but the reaction of the 2 wounds to each other inspire Rand to something really cool in the future
Mike's Book Reviews - Being as this is three months later, you'll probably not see this, but here goes... The two wounds are the evil of the Dark One and the evil of Shadar Logath, enemies of each other. I've read several of the other comments here addressing it, but never quite mentioning what seems to me to be the most critical part of of the wounds. Anyways, loving your channel. Came over from a recommendation from the Nae'blis channel. A pretty big WoT 'tuber who seemed very impressed with your reviews!
Just finished this book! Some things that hit me upside the head while reading this one: 1. If Aes Sedai are bound by the oath rod not to use the one power as a weapon, why and how were the sisters who caught Rand in LoC able to do what they did to him? 2. In this book, why would Rand decide to open a large gateway in the middle of Illians busiest areas? We've seen how gateways can slice and dice ppl. And Rand is supposed to be particular about not causing death to innocents, especially women. Him just deciding to create a huge gateway in the middle of the Square of Tammaz didn't make sense.
Rand keep going off on his own when he has an army of Maiden bodygaurds and Ashamen doesn't make much sense either like what are you doing dude...... Rinse recycle repeat he'll do it again in another book like C'mon man maybe bring someone with you.
The sisters in LoC were not using the power as a weapon, they were using it as a torture tool. The oaths work on ones own subjective opinion rather than any objective standard so you can get around the oaths pretty well by just believing that what you are doing doesn’t count as breaking it. You see this in several books where Aes Sedai just have to feel threatened rather than actually adhere to “last defense” part of the oaths. When they rescue Rand I believe one actually says “I feel pretty threatened now” before channeling.
Which is the app that you talk about at the beginning? I also took a break and I just finished book 7 so I came to your review. I sometimes have a harder time remembering all the names and things that happen because English is not my native language. Thanks a lot!
@@mikesbookreviews With Mat and Tylin it's not that it was "rapey" he is attracted to her and does enjoy being with her but he doesn't like to be the one being chased he is the chaser and that is what bothers him so much with the situation, which is why the super girls as you call them find it funny and it's not just them that think it's funny but all the rest of the group do as well.
To be honest, I did feel the slog here. This book felt like Jordan had 300 of pages of story (100 in the beginning and 200 packed at the back end), and the rest was pointless meandering in Ebu Dar. The internal monologues really started to wear me down here. I didn’t need 500 pages in the middle to get Nyaneve and Elayne to apologize to Matt.
I was really surprised Rand didn't have a sword duel with Sammael since it was built up that he was great with a sword. He fights a lesser opponent and gets beat that's a head scratcher. Very unclear who helped Rand in Shadar Logoth. Seems like Rand recovered way too damn fast from that cursed dagger injury maybe if he had a month in the least to recover you could have bought it more. Kind of a John Wick moment hit by 3 cars and shot 20 times but not a scratch on him can sprint and do Kung Fu moves with no consequence. Seems to be a pattern of Rand going off on his own to do stupid shit when he has an army of body guards who could aid him the Maidens and Asha Men. I didn't see what he wanted to accomplish by going out to that rebel camp outside the city with Min what was he hoping to gain? The ending kind of really brought down the book.
Now, I'm feeling sane again. Been on Daniel channel, and other WOT RUclipsrs, and everyone is fawning over Nynaeve, and I don't get it, I don't buy it. So, admittedly, she has insecurities, she's overprotective. During the books, her character arc is "amazing"? Right, her social status evolves, a lot, so does her capabilities in her craft. I'm only on book 1o, and she probably does something amazing at the end. But, internally, she does not change a iota, she doesn't evolve, and she doesn't even want to. She's sexist, racist, hypocritical, violent, including physically, haughty, petty, and that's the beginning of the list. So, do her deeds excuse her behavior? To me at least, it doesn't. (And I loved Lan so much, oh Jordan, why do this to him, why...) (Everyone hates Karen these days- with good cause, so where's all this love for Nynaeve coming from? She's the ultimate Karen form).
Hows it going Mike!? know it’s been a year and I’m not sure if your mind has been changed but MAT. Jordan makes it clear that Mat is obviously attracted to Tylen but does not want to pursue her because she is Queen and is dealing with all the Aes Sendai in Ebou Dar not to mention Elayne and Nyneave. So I do not think Mat was raped, just uncomfortable in the fact that Tylen was doing the chasing not Mat.
Min was always the best for Rand and their love story started back in Lord of Chaos in the lead up to the ending. It is one of the few good relationships in the series. I appreciate that Jordan wrote a lot of them, just most of them are bad. I don't know if Jordan is so bad at writing them or if the world he built just makes things difficult since the women are so sexist. I have still never accepted Lan and Nynaeve as a bonafide couple. They make no sense. Being forced at knifepoint to have sex with a beautiful queen is truly the stuff of nightmares. Or not really. I didn't like the disrespect towards Matt, but otherwise, it never bothered me.
I dont understand why not only one review adress the problem in the main plot rand x sammael. Rand defeated him (i believe he isn't dead though) after being 2 days in bed and he didn't even eat before the battle. Seemed like he could have made it sooner, i thought he would use an terangreal or something, but no. Was the worst part of the book for me. The rest is pretty decent, i love the side characters and for me it was not a slog at all. Now heading toward path of daggers.
A Crown of Swords was my least favourite up to now but I still enjoyed it. There was a lot of five star material in this book, largely to do with Matt and the super girls, but there was a lot of two star material too, some of it to do with Rand, a lot with Perrin. I have always loved Min and love her even more in this one. I don’t mind Morgase. She’s not great but I quite enjoy her chapters. Ending was awesome. Moving on now with Path of Daggers
I think that one of the main reasons for the feeling of the slog (which I experienced live) was just how much shorter these next few books are. I waited for 18 months for this book and it was almost a 100,000 words less than the one before. And that gets worse with the next couple books. So it was extremely disappointing at the time. However I'm doing a reread now and I'm loving all of these books except probably Crossroads of Twilight.
Hey, what app were you talking about where you looked up Liah as a character up until Book 7 and got a spoiler-free synopsis up til that point. That seems really handy in general but I can’t find an app like that.
Yeah at this stage, and specially a couple of books further down the line, I would've appreciated more of Thom, Loial, etc, rather than a massive influx of characters I care little about. Still love the series though
“I won’t shout at you!” Shouted Nynaeve
One of my favorite lines.
Ha ha, yes. So oblivious.
[cue tugging of braid]
I'm reading Wot right now and i don't want give up. But man, i can't stand one more chapter with Elayne and Nynaeve. Too much shouting, blushing and "tugging of braid" for me.
Michele Grippo They eventually get it out of their system.
Her lack of self-awareness and pettiness grew on me from annoying until it became hilarious and then intriguing then endearing then heartbreaking.
"Yay Lan is back!"
"Boo he has like a dozen lines in this book."
My man, it's Lan we're talking about. Lan has had like a dozen lines in his entire life.
"If you say so," Lan said mildly.
Nynaeve quivered. "Don't you take that tone with me!" she shouted. "I tell you, I'm not angry! Do you hear me?"
"Blood and ashes, Nynaeve," Mat growled. "He doesn't think you're angry. I don't think you're angry." A good thing women had taught him to lie with a straight face. "Now could we go upstairs and fetch this bloody Bowl of the Winds?"
Love Mat!
I *loved* the apology stuff. The way Nynaeve and Elayne tell the story to both Birgitte and Aviendha expecting backup, only to get blindsided by "Sorry, you did what?" is brilliant. And I don't think you're right that it didn't mean anything to Mat - he's had a lot of points where he's griped about how he saved them all and got shit for it, but I think drunk Mat talking to Birgitte was completely honest. He doesn't want to be fawned over for what he did - much as it may be worth it - he quite honestly just wanted an apology.
So the instant he GETS that apology (or...as close as he knows Nynaeve can physically get to an apology :D ) he's gracious enough to let it go and say its all fine. It didn't really matter to him *what* it was about, but rather the way he'd been treated and the lack of acknowledgement it was wrong.
Well. That and to annoy Nynaeve. :P
Oh, Mat handled it like a pro. I just want assassinate Nynaeve sometimes for her pride and stubbornness being larger than the Grand f'n Canyon.
@@mikesbookreviews that pride and stubborness lead her to have a scene later on, the golden crane one, that absolutely made my eyes water, and also made me love Nynaeve above every other girl in the books beside Min. So much so that on re-reads I just go "ha, classic Nynaeve"
One of the things I love about this series is that characters, like Elayne and Nynaeve, aren’t always likeable, but in my opinion, they are realistic and well-developed.
i really like how them and mat slowly come to respect one another
They have grown but her disregarding the lives of the 2 men there to protect her really annoys me. It's never full circle, maybe they develop this but it's just evil.
Edit: only on book 8 if u spoil I will find you :)
realistically insufferable
Just finished the book...as is my ritual when I complete a book in the series - I jump to your channel to watch your discussions. I love this series and I am so glad I found your channel. Great vid!
I do the same, when I finish a book I watch some reviews/ sump up, to fix it in my mind and make sure nothing of importance slipped through the cracks.
I'm now on beginning of book 1o, and sad to get closer to the last Jordan (only) book.
(Or the day after/ some hours later. Very often I just can't stop and literally jump to the next book, already ready on my nearby pillow)🍃
Me too!!!
I never noticed the “slog”. The only book that really felt like the story was unnecessarily slowish was crossroads of twilight. Absolutely fantastic series. Loving these reviews it’s really helping me remember the best parts of the series vividly. The last three books in the series are 10/10s for me. A memory of light is my favorite. Such an epic and perfect conclusion. Keep up the amazing work with these videos Mike!
That's the whole reason I started doing them. So I would remember. Thanks for watching!
The "slog" is mostly just perrins non-story
I agree but I guess I also read the books after book 4 when they came out and reread the prior novels when they dropped. I just enjoy the time in the world even if the 7-10 arent as high on my list as the prior 3 however some really awesome crap happens in these books like Winter's Heart with Rand. But I do agree with Mike, Morgase is slow and I dont love her chapters or her character really.
Block Which blows because I love Perrin. But even I’m starting to groan when it’s a Perrin chapter (I’m through Path of Daggers).
I recall a fan hypothesis "everyone hates the first book they had to wait for (to be finished writing)."
I like that in true Nynaeve fashion when it comes to her EF crew, she was the only one that didn’t laugh at Mat’s assault and stood up for him by talking to Tylin (even though it didn’t work).
One of my favorite things about this book is that the death of Nalesean made me realize how much I have come to love some of these more tertiary characters without even knowing it, his death was a real blow to me the first time I read it 20 years ago.
Same! 😢
i literally just finished this book last night and i actually teared up at his death and was saying “fuck! No! No! fuck!” and my boyfriend was like “who died?” 😭😭
I think the problem though is that Mat didn't seem to process the loss. A guy who followed Mat put his life in his care and he kind of just shrugs off the news of his death too easily like I wanted some real hatred for the Golhum for killing his man. Same with the 2 bodyguards in the boat that died Mat doesn't seem to grieve at the loss of his men only that Nynaeve survived without a scratch. You want the character to really feel the loss this isn't Disney they aren't coming back.
@@bartsullivan4866
Not sure its in this book but you absolutely do see Mat react to this loss. He tends to try and gloss over emotional stuff in his PoV, and he also has a soldier mentality of being used to death so he does not get super upset about every man that dies. But you can see the responsibility weigh heavily on him when he is around his men.
Something to remember is that Robert Jordan had notes upon outlines upon thousands of words describing the last few books, so if you notice any changes in how characters are used it will not be because Brandon "fixed" them, but because that's how Jordan planned it all along. Of course he had to figure out how to write it down in book form, but it was Jordan's ideas and plan. Loved this video. Love to hear about the wheel of time!
That's fair. "Fixed" is probably a poor choice of words by myself there. Looking forward to the second half of the journey. Thanks for watching/commenting!
Regarding the two wounds.
Rand's wound from Ishamel left him with a nasty scar, a wound which won't properly heal, which is infused with the evil of the Dark One.
The dagger with the ruby hilt, which Fain uses, is infused with the evil of Shadar Logoth (which is dark, but opposed to the Dark One).
So Cadsuane keeps him alive (she's with him to heal him immediately), but then Dashiva (the Ashaman healer) pulls the evil of the two wounds together and makes them both fight one another, kinda negating both.
Regarding the Balefire in Shadar Logoth... there's more going on there. It's actually one of the single most important moments in the whole series.
Im not there yet for what your suggesting but now I’m really interested. Along with who was the man that helped Rand.
Ever since Book 1 I always felt Shadar Logoth was going to be important. I hope it is, I love the place
@@KingBowserVlog no spoilers, but yes Shadar Logoth is vary important.
Its Flinn that heals Rand, not Dashiva
Ohh, exciting! Thanks for this comment. I've just finished 'Crown of Swords'. It's a ritual to watch Mike's videos after I've read each one.
Hi Mike!! Really enjoyed your video and thoughts on the book as well as the entire series. I apologize if my comments tend to turn into a wall of text, but hey, as I've mentioned before, it's my favorite series. If it gets to be too much, let me know and I'll try and cut these down in the future.
There are a few things to remember when reading WoT books and one of the more important ones is the unreliable narrator. Matt's view of himself is clearly distorted. Pay attention to how he talks about the bad habits Olver is developing and it's obvious the boy is picking them up from Matt himself. Matt is a womanizer at heart. He may think he treats women with perfect respect, but this clearly isn't how many of them view him. You see this most clearly in how the supergirls, Egwene, Elayne, and Nyneave think of and treat Matt. They do not appreciate him specifically because of his combination of always looking to avoid responsibility and wandering eyes and hands. They are aware he's Ta'veren, but do not know about his memories. They think he's in charge of the army solely because he's the Dragon Reborn's friend. They apologize to him at both Aviendha's and Birgitte's urging, but neither is really convinced they 'should.' Elayne does so only to preserve her relationship with Aviendha and Nyneave is browbeaten into it (which is actually hysterical when you consider Nyneave's personality). Matt actually appreciates the apology, but surprise, he can't resist twitting them a bit by acting as if it's no big deal. This backfires when Nyneave ends up yelling at him AGAIN (while he's suffering a huge hangover 😂)
Even with all of that, you are not alone in having a tough time with Matt and Tylin's relationship. She chases him (which he thinks is improper, he's the one supposed to be doing the pursuing), she corners him and ultimately forces him. What isn't obvious but I believe was actually intended by Jordan was that, yes, Matt was attracted to her. Had she not been the queen, he'd have happily looked to bed her. This doesn't excuse the rape which appears to have been written for laughs. The entire "relationship" just has not aged well at all.
You have commented and are not alone in your view that Jordan doesn't do relationships very well. Like a lot of things in the WoT, the buildup for many of them is not always obvious. You specifically mention that Nyneave and Lan come out of nowhere in book 1. On reread of the EOTW, they really don't. There are tons of subtle hints that Nyneave is very attracted to Lan. Lan also goes out of his way to compliment her skills (which for a taciturn character says something about his attitude about Nyneave). For Nyneave, who has had to scratch and claw for every bit of recognition in part because she still looks like she's barely twenty, this is like pouring gas on the fire of her attraction. Pay attention to the subtle blushes and the hemming and hawing when thinking of love interest. It's subtle, but there if you are looking for it.
With that, let's talk about everyone's least favorite relationship, Faile and Perrin. First caveat, I'm not Faile's biggest fan either, but on some of the podcasts I listen to, they've made a point that we generally see their relationship from Perrin's eyes. Perrin can smell emotion. Faile actually rarely acts out in a jealous manner, but cannot control the way she smells. Perrin then reacts, not to anything she's done, but solely to the emotions he smells. This almost always backfires and just leads to more jealousy (who wants to be told they're being jealous, especially when they haven't actually done anything?) It may not make you like Faile, but I do feel I understand her reactions a bit better.
I will try and explain balefire without giving any spoilers. If you remember, Moraine has a talk with Rand about balefire and why it is so dangerous. What makes balefire confusing is it essentially involves time travel. Anything affected by balefire stops existing before it is struck by said balefire. The more balefire used, the longer in time is removed. Rand balefires Rahvin so hard that everything he'd done for the last hour or two was wiped away. That's the only reason Matt, Aviendha, and briefly Asmodean come back. When Moghiedien balefires the boat, the part of the boat struck stopped existing before it was hit. This meant that instead of water flooding in now, it actually had been flooding in for a minute or two. Balefire also has a very bad effect on the pattern itself. It was mutually agreed at the end of the previous war that both sides stop using it, not because they wanted to spare their enemies, but because both sides realized it might unravel reality if they continued to use it unchecked. The Dark One would be fine with this but most of his followers would object. Rand and the stranger crossing the streams will have huge repercussions, but you'll have to wait a bit for those details.
Watch the Sanderson theory confirmed video only after finishing the entire series
I still had four or five things I wanted to comment on, but this is already a dissertation 😜 Again, I'm really enjoying your reviews and reactions as you read my favorite series for the first time.
This is a comment in length that Robert Jordan himself would be proud of. And never feel like you need to shorten a comment. I read every single word. Thanks for taking the time. Now, let me see if I can get to all of these.
1) I keep telling myself to remember the rule of the unreliable narrator. GRRM and Joe Abercrombie taught me this and sometimes I forget to apply it. I can somewhat see that for Mat, but being a handsome young man that loves him some ladies, well I'm not going to wish a sexual predator on him to teach him a lesson. I thought it was poor form to have the Supergirl laughing about it and that's fine. In a series this long there are going to be some things that don't stick the landing for me.
2) I figure I would see the early seeds planted in regards to Lan/Nynaeve on an EotW re-read. It was more the surprise of "this dude doesn't talk much and now he's Romeo? Whoa."
3) Faile has never really bothered me like the rest of the fandom. I joke about her jealousy, but it's more of me being bitter that it has made Perrin a one-note character that only cares about Faile and nothing else. It's like when your best friend starts dating someone new and you never see them anymore.
4) I understood the whole concept of Balefire, even if it starts to hurt your brain after a minute, but it was more of the crossing the beams part I didn't get. I feel like RJ was way too smart to contradict himself by making continuity errors.
Personally, I read the part where Matt is chased sexually as commentary about on male abuse. I don’t feel like its really played for laughs. Yes, everyone is laughing at Matt, but it very clearly bothers him.
In the real world men are often ignored when they report domestic or sexual abuse by women, even laughed at.
People often say they should be flattered to be receiving that attention, which leads to emotional abuse.
So its a complicated situation.
Mat is absolutely into it on a sexual level. Thats very clear.
With the unreliable narrator it is not clear whether he could actually say no and leave the relationship. I mean, I get the sense that he might have been able to break it off and end the relationship …if he really, fully committed to it. (He would also have to stop having sex with her and he likes her so he is conflicted on this).
There is enough of an element of fear that he might not be able break it off and that she might actually keep him as a sex slave that it definitely gets uncomfortable, but I would argue that it explores that type of relationship in a relatively unique way by swapping the expected gender of each role.
From later books I get the impression that some of this is a sort of BDSM type of roleplay that they are both doing. Its a game, but a dangerous game that leaves you wondering if its really a game sometimes.
The slog was only book 10 for me, didn't really mind any of the other ones. I'm on book 13 right now, absolutely love this series!
I was quite happy with 7. Looking forward to continuing.
Same for me Sam!
I was kinda lucky in that I read the books as they came out. Having 11/2 to 2 years between books I didn't feel the slog really.
The slog for me were books 8 & 10 because they were nothing more than set up.
@@chadwhitfield6946 Interesting. In my experience it has been the people that had to wait between books that usually say the slog is real.
The slog was definitely a by product of waiting years between the books. Im loving your reviews.
Thanks so much. I just finished it (the slog, not the series) and while it is real, it's definitely been overblown.
I've said it on other people's reviews. I always felt that Jordan was going to reveal at the end of the series that he was going to make it that the whole wheel of time series was written by Loial. Just always pictured some scene after the last battle.
Just felt like it would have been right.
That's funny because I've always assumed Samwell Tarly was writing the Song of Ice & Fire in those books.
Entertaining as always! Seems you loved Mat so much in this book, Narg thinks it’s only fair to warn you that Mat’s cliffhanger ending doesn’t get resolved in Path of Daggers. PoD was/is much maligned because people want Mat and feel let down when they don’t find out what happened to him. Other than that Narg thinks you’ll enjoy PoD, as it answers some of your questions and is INO a short quick read with some great moments spread throughout.
Narg! Thanks for commenting/watching. Big fan. Miss you on Twitter. In my LoC review someone let it spill in the comments that Mat was completely absent in PoD, so I'm ready for that. I'm still following your Reddit page, so keep up the great work!
Do you think you'll get yo speak in the show, Narg?🤔
I just finished the book (I always watch your reviews after I finished a WoT book). The most disturbing scene for me in the whole series, when Aran'gar massaged Egwene's face. It was so creepy.
I guess I don't even remember this?
@@mikesbookreviews I know you ve finished the books but anyway its the chick that massaged Egwene when she had a bad headache.
yup that was chilling, loved that scene as well. Made me uneasy
@@fast.food.ninjalarry954 ohhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh shit
Love the reviews man! And I agree, when Tylin assaults Mat it’s absolutely horrible. I hated that part. I just read through the book a second time and this time I read Elayne and Nynaeve laughing off the assault as an analog to victim shaming. They’re both just ways of disempowering the victim... It’s a horrible look for the wonder girls, but probably fairly accurate to the reality of how these situations play out a lot of the time :/
Right. Some suggest that if Mat wanted to stop it he would/could have. Again, if the roles were reversed and say some king was using his power and influence, as well as a dagger, to do something like this to Min or someone and then when she talked about it Matt, Rand, and other guys laughed about it there would be calls for this book to be banned.
Nynaeve never laughed at Mat’s assault and she was actually the only one to stand up for him and talk to Tylin.
@mikesbookreviews I think that is what Jordan was going for: he wanted to show something that wasn't OK that is so often a powerful man and a younger woman, to shed light on how awful those situations are.
Hurray! 🎉🥳 My girl Nynaeve breaks her block this book with an assist from Moghedian.
I first started reading this series over 20 years ago, with many re-readings along the way. I've been watching your reviews because I love hearing other perspectives on the series, and the view you have that just has me on the floor is your idea that Nyneave should be Amyrlin. Egwene's development is one of my favourite in the series, so my enthusiasm to see if your viewpoint changes as you get further along is making me almost as impatient as I was when I was waiting for each book to come out. I know I could jump ahead to your reviews of later books, but I'm really enjoying the build up. Still, I'm gonna keep bingeing your videos hoping you eventually come around to admitting what a great leader Egwene is!
I was really suprised with WOT 7 with how much I enjoyed it. I really struggled to get through WOT5+6, but both those books had amazing endings that saved it for me. Am I going to be one of those people who enjoy the "slog" more than the fan fav's. We will see.
I'm honestly glad someone else shares my view of "The Fires of Heaven". I liked the ending of that book, but so far, it has been the slowest book in the series to me. It worried me a bit when I finished it and saw online that everyone else seemed to think it's one of the top three books. I honestly got nervous that I might not like the rest of the series if that was one of everyone else's favorite. But, I found Lord of Chaos and Crown of Swords to be much more to my liking.
Finished this yesterday. Love your intro. Nynaeve is my most favorite character of all.
I like how the Children of the Light story eventually turned toward The Light.
Just finished this book. I look forward to getting done with one of these books so I can watch your review. This was my favorite book of the series so far and the one that finally hooked me on the series. Now I want to go back and read he previous books, but I’ll finish the series first.
Mike, I love your reviews! There's no one in my friends or family who have read WoT, so I don't have anyone to talk to about the series. Listening to your reviews and going along the journey is cathartic in a way. I'm still a few books behind you, but I'm determined to catch up haha
I definitely agree with you about the Power Puff Girls, but I despise Perrin chapters almost as much (controversial, I know ). There's only so much "don't call me a lord" or "mah Faile" that I can stomach! I used to hate Mat, but he shot up to my number two with this book, second only to the Lord Dragon himself.
I could type up a lot more, but you need all the time you can spare to finish the series before JordonCon. Keep up the reviews and thank you!
I've always thought that Jordan deliberately set up the thing with Mat and Tylin to be super uncomfortable, the way you are responding is exactly what he wanted.
Blah. I get that, what I don't get is how divided the fandom seems on it.
@@mikesbookreviews Yeah, I find that confusing too.
It's rape, and I like that it's an actual depiction of a man being abused by a woman in popular literature.
I don't like that our culture of toxic masculinity leads to so many people denying the clear facts.
Hey finally :) Glad to see you getting back to these!
This is one of my favourite of the books I think. Loads of Mat, and for me its where the wonder girls really start to grow up, and become more bearable. I read somewhere that Jordan said he based all the female characters on his wife. Which since she was reading them as his editor, makes me almost suspect the series is in part a multi-million word thesis on "see, this is what you are like!" :)
The Mat rape scene is odd, and I think it's probably something that hasn't aged well. I've read people making all sorts of claims about it - that it intentionally uses role reversal to highlight how women who are raped have to deal with their sexual history being used against them as justification. But I'm not convinced. I read the book when it came out, and I know I just thought it was funny. The complete lack of condemnation for Teslyn from anyone, including Mat once he gets used to the idea, doesn't make me feel that it was meant to be more than slightly uncomfortable situation for Mat. Who's now learnt a valuable lesson that women in other cultures can be more forceful than he's used to, and can go forward wiser in the ways of the world.
RJ marrying his editor explains the length of some of these novels, ha ha. I realize now that folks seem divided on the Mat/Tylin thing, but it was more the Supergirls laughing about it than the event. Hated that.
The fight between Rand and Perrin began as a staged fight (Rand sent him to retrieve the "Prophet.) But Perrin chose the wrong thing to argue about and it turned into almost a real fight.
Okay, this makes more sense.
I love this alot, I have ADHD and struggle with reading as im fighting my thought just wondering off ALL the time. So i really appreciate these reviews/summary as often I can miss things. Looking forward watching the other reviews when I finish those books
YES! My Dude, back at it with more WoT!
Huge fan of the series, cannot even say how many rereads I have done. That being said, I love your reviews because your thoughts mirror mine on my first reading. Cannot stress enough how much this series was built for rereads.
A couple points:
RJ is not good at writing romance.. as you said in the first book Nynaeve kept saying how she can't stand these people, but would have an after thought about Lan is not so bad.
As for Mat, I took it not so much as Stockholm syndrome but as an uncomfortable relationship. Hes old fashioned and does not like being not in control.
Balefire, is confusing AF! But it is important that it's said several times that it was forbidden. It's a paradox and has made me as a reader say out loud "HUH?" Several times.
Cadswane (sp?) Is 100% a crap dollar store Moraine. I dislike her more and more with each reread.
Slog? I had no idea that people thought there was NOT a slog.. its coming, be strong.
Sanderson is the man, no question, and hes does a great job.. but if you like Mat, I feel like you might feel a bit jarred when he takes over.
Keep at it man love your videos👍
Every time I start to think about Balefire I end up saying "ouch!" and holding my temples. I mean, I get how it works. Time travel/time disruption can start to get really confusing when you dwell on it. So many variables. LOL I agree on Cadsuane.
Going through these videos after finishing the series for the first time, I'd forgotten how much had happened by the end of book 7! And so much great stuff to come. What a journey. I'm a future re-reader in the making.
I have a slightly different take on the Supergirls' reaction to Tylin's power rape festival that is more grounded, I feel--and thus makes them MORE hateful.
When you think of what they have always thought of Mat--a man-boy rogue and lazy rascal--they probably thought he was exaggerating the situation. They didn't even want to hear his side of things. Also, Elayne and Nynaeve can be very naive. While readers know better, those two think he is just out for dances and pinching bottoms or stealing kisses. Not exactly welcome behavior, but he also never raped anyone. Anyway, they probably thought Tylin was grabbing a fistful of ta'veren rump roast and that was all--at least at first.
I think Mat was the best character to pick for this treatment, too--not because it was some apt punishment, but because of the psychological horror. Mat is the one who possesses the freest spirit in the whole series. He doesn't want to be bound in marriage, bound to the wheel, bound to fate... I think if he could, he'd spit in the face of the Creator as willingly as into the face of Shai'tan.
Anyway, yeah... it's gross and wrong, and I hope it isn't left out of the show at all. We see what can happen in a patriarchy, and there's nothing saying it wouldn't happen in a matriarchy, albeit reversed.
I think this is actually such a key thing... No matter which sex controls the "archy"... There will always be people that abuse it.
Lanfear, Semirhage, Messana are just as terrifying as Ishamael, Aginor or Rahvin.
It's not your gender that determines your morality, but rather how you handle the power you've gained.
Once again, I’m very late to this party but I’ve enjoyed coming to these as I finish each book. I’m with you when you said you expected Rand to get knocked down. It seemed like attacking Sammael right after waking up was doomed to fail especially with the new wound; I was actually shocked and confused when that whole bit ended. I overall enjoyed this book as much as the others and I read it the fastest. Looking forward to catching up to the next video after Path of Daggers.
As far as the way Mat was written in that particular scene is very realistic to the way it happens in the real world. I think that was his way of being a males rights advocate. Notice that the sexes are mirror imaged in the book. I read ot as his way of bringing attention to how males are treated vs female. If a female makes a claim like that people come out of the woodwork to help, if its a male it is something to be joked about. This isn't something new, it has always been that way. The way Mat deals with it is one of the reasons why Mat's character is so loved. He has such bad luck with everything except betting and battle. Plus he is a natural smartass/ rascal. Fun character.
I always viewed Nynaeve as immature, however after the balefire attack on the boat, where she finally overcame her block, I found it outrageous that she didn’t want Mat told about the death of his men. She seemed to become a bridezilla from a reality tv show.
Two men guarding her have died in an attack aimed at her & she wants no mention of it. These deaths seem to mean nothing to her, odd for a Healer.
Her only concern is being a newlywed & this seems to carry on with her character as the story progresses. I can’t believe Lan would not be utterly ashamed & embarrassed by this attitude of hers towards two soldiers who died protecting her.
What do you think of Nyneave not wanting Mat told about his two men?
It falls under me thinking she's selfish and completely oblivious to everyone around her. If it doesn't affect her, she blows it off. Zero compassion.
Your WoT reviews are the best. I love how in depth they are, and how organized your thought process is. I've just finished this book and I think that the guy in the end was Dermondred (sp?)- we know the forsaken are competing with each other and it makes sense to me that he'd want to help Rand kill Sammael.
Thanks! That's why WoT reviews are the only ones I do full spoilers for because I have to get these thoughts out of my head. Interesting theory. A very good one, to be honest.
This book is where she turns the corner. Her problem is she has to keep up the rage in order to channel. since she breaks her block in this book, she starts to grow up fast.
That's the growth I'm looking for. Awesome.
Remember the Dark Ones orders, " Let the Lord of Chaos rule."
Indeed.
I really liked the LAN/Nyneave reunion because she finally gives in/lets go and breaks her block.
That was a great moment that I probably undersold.
Mike's Book Reviews I mean, there are hundreds of cool moments throughout the series... Easy to do. Loving watching your journey through these books. Keep 'em coming.
Cadswane exclaiming “FAH!” became one of my favorite things in this book.
First of all absolutely GREAT video! Second, Min is by far my favorite companion of Rand, and he would not have made it without her. Now, Rand's wound is basically two horrible evils that are polar opposite's...like opposing magnets, so the new wound didn't turn him into an "avocado" because the dark one's wound started fighting Fain's wound immediately, and will continue to do so, but both evils will continue to attack Rand. As far as Balefire...think of Doc's warning to Marty McFly in Back to the Future about doing things in the past that change the future. Balefire completely erases it's victim from the pattern if used too long, as well as erases the things that person has done which can have a huge spider web effect in the pattern. Non Book Example...if someone just blew up a whole town, then someone killed that person with powerful enough Balefire, the town would be alive again, and that person would be erased from the pattern forever. To end, Cadsuane is to Rand what the Wise Ones are to Egwene.
Thank you for this. The Back to the Future comparison is spot on.
About the wound from Fain's dagger, the reason it was so slow is because it was exactly over the old wound. And even with Cadsuane's healing he basically dead before (I think it is) Narishma not exactly heals it but he in essense "quarantine" the two wounds. Neither will ever heal, but they cannot spread.
Erik Ödlund I see. I had it, more or less, comparing it to Frodo’s wound in LotR. I just wasn’t sure I understood the whole pitting the wounds against one another thing. Thanks!
Damer Flinn is the Asha'man who heals Rand.
@@revan0890 Thank you! Could not remember that name during the video.
Mat in this book is just like:
bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom bosom…
I literally just laughed out loud
I really like Elayne she's not perfect, but that's point she can make mistakes and learn from them and she uses the one power in a very smart and fun way and she cares about her friends...that's my unpopular opinion 😎
I like elayne too
Funny that we thought the same thing about the crossing the streams balefire part. I thought it was probably Lews Theron.
thank you for the review. great. reliving the book together with you. finish the book and cannot wait to listen to what you have to say about it. thumbs up.
This was a rough one to get through for me. Onward and forward with the series!
The next one was where my dedication was SEVERELY tested.
Agreed totally about Mat. I wonder if something like this happened to Jordan.
Tylin is the worst.
The Balefire thing explination was actually recently confirmed by Sanderson, but you should wait to read it until after finishing as it has spoilers for the ending of the books
I saw the whole "Sanderson confirms WoT Ending Theory" barrage of videos. I'm halfway there!
@@mikesbookreviews He is right you should wait it until finish it. But don't worry!! You will find out everything about balefire by yourself. Sanderson comfirmed a "THEORY" didn't re-describe balefire. You will understand balefire by just reading books.
Samet Kan Oh I’ll definitely avoid spoilers. For the most part, folks have been so cool about not spoiling stuff for me.
I think you're correct about literally everything except that Nynaeve should be Amyrlin instead of Egwene. Egwenee is competent as Amyrlin because she spent a ton of time with the wise ones so her view of the world is different. She actually cares to listen to advice and manipulate around Romanda/Lelaine/Sheriam. Nynaeve wouldve been deposed within the first week because of her attitude towards literally everyone and the whole situation is generally unstable. Same with Elayne and her being raised as a princess. Nynaeve and Elayne wouldve also shit on Siuan's advice completely probably because she used to be mean to them. And also Egwene had much more sway with Moghedien, much more intimidation there.
I think characters such as Perrin seem to drop out for periods not because Jordan was "finished" with them but because he conceived of this thing not as a set of fourteen novels but as one very long tale, and threads from an early book can go unmentioned through several before being picked back up again, but they do get picked back up.
One slightly confusing factor (but possibly unavoidable in such a large tapestry) for me was the chronological skipping around, the way I could be reading one chapter and suddenly realize from concurrent events, that this is happening at the exact same moment as such and such, hundreds of pages back and in a completely different book.
I definitely feel like this stretch suffers from a lot of those things. Time jumps, characters standing around or missing entirely from a whole book.
Pretty good book! Im on A memory of light now! The Last one
That's a brick of a book.
It’s the best brick a fantasy nerd could ask for.
Agreed! I couldn't believe how good this book was- expecting a slog and there wasn't one. In fact it felt faster paced than lord of chaos... It's one of my top 3 so far- with the great hunt and fires of heaven
Awesome review! I cant say the Mat and Tylin scenes bothered me much. It was definitely on my mind as i was reading it, but i kept in mind the setting of Ebu Dar - it was stated women could kill a man and no one would bat an eye. Not only that but once I removed myself from the 'grossness' those were fun reads, the way Jordan does but doesnt say what they do is really good, particularly the last encounter with Tywin where she kisses him then it cuts to Mat walking away on shakey legs and tucking his shirt in. Thats not to say I dont see peoples problem with it and agree with them. Still, if this was written today I'd have different opinions I think
I can appreciate a different POV on the topic. I just don't have much more to add that I didn't already say. I get why Jordan did it. It just didn't work for me.
Thank you! Min is the one that I would choose out of the three "love interests"
The whole thing about Mat and Tylin is written to cause the reaction of anger and disgust you had. Some of the younger readers almost found the whole thing amusing or trivial, but in general the older readers totally understood this was a rape and power abuse. The initial reaction of Elayne and Nynaeve can be blamed in part on Mat’s tendency to lie or exaggerates and pull off pranks harming seriously his credibility, and in part on their naive denial that a woman in power could really do such a thing, the way Mat described it happened. Mat himself can’t really accept it, thus his Stockholm syndrome. All his life he’s been around strong, bossy women, but this is the first time one of them crosses the line and abuses him. This will leave scars (as you know, I think you’ve finished it all by now).
I’m a younger reader and even I, naivety and all, was disgusted by the entire thing.
@@admd8765 same, I was genuinely disgusted when Elayne laughed it off
Lan and Moraine were not romantically involved, so Briggite and Matt’s friendship was not the first, but it was absolutely a breath of fresh air.
Salidar and white tower chapters in this section of the tale is basically a game of spot the darkfriend.
I think i might have liked this one (as a whole) more than 5 and 6. It definitely moved faster for me and does great stuff with Rand, Mat and Min's characters especially.
Fires of Heaven was way more sloggy than this book. No idea why that one seems to escape the criticisms books 7-10 get.
I'm sure somebody has answered by now, and I'm sure you've also finished the series, but the 2 wounds that "battled each other" are battling because Shadar Logoth is a specific kind of darkness that is even different from the Dark Ones taint. And considering Shadar Logoths power, and the fact that Myrddraals avoid it, it shows that it isn't weak or a laughing matter to the shadow. It's it's own being separate from the light and the dark, and that's why they battle to see who can overtake Rand. I'm on Path of Daggers and I've had minor spoilers and that's my assumption of it.
10:00 takes 2 to tango my man
lol that cracked me up good
Min FOREVER
Explaining the wound from the dagger. Shadar Logath wasn’t evil to begin with. However, the city took the methods of the Shadow to fight the Shadow. The evil of that city is different than the evil of the shadow. It’s an evil bred to fight the shadow. Since Rands original wound is of the shadow, and his second wound is of Shadar Logath, the second wound fights the first, well... first. Both are evil, but theirs evils aren’t complementary... until Padin Fain unites them. Machin Shin, Shadar Logath, and the Shadow.
Huh. I see. Okay, thanks!
The original wound has the Dark One's evil contained in it. The Padan Fain wound has Shadar Logoth/mordeth/ Padan Fain evil in it (or something like that). Different evils fighting each other. At least that's what i seem to remember.
This is what most have explained it as.
Although Tylin stuff was indeed appauling, she lead him to Tuon. The Wheel turns...
I didn't think the Mat/Tylin relationship was supposed to be taken too seriously by the reader, thus why some would call it comic relief. It's odd with Jordan though. Some relationships feel real, some feel like fairy tales. It can be hard to adjust. Another thing occurred to me; that it was not taken seriously by the girls to specifically point out that people don't take it as seriously in the real world when men are the victims. I don't think there's anything in this series that should be dwelt on too much, but it's definitely one of a number of things in WoT that seems to have people split.
Count me on the side that didn't like the writing decision there. More the Supergirls reaction to it than the actual event.
What was this app you mentioned in the beginning. It sounds really useful for reading such a huge series
It's called "WoT Compendium - Unofficial" and I found it in the iTunes app store for free. It's clutch.
Awesome review, didn't find it a slog enjoyed it and makes me want to read the next one :)
I always thought that cover was Lan pulling Nyneave out of the River Eldar when her ship sank. She had started wearing jewelry like Cadsuane and Lan's hidori is another clue.
That is exactly what I wanted to say. That cover is of Nynaeve & Lan, not Cadsuane.
There are 2 covers for the ebook
Honestly only slog i found was in book 9 and 10. A few chapters in book 9 where egwene walked around the army camp outside tar valon doing nothing but internal dialog that had no impact on anything relevant IMHO. Then book 10 had 2 chapters where I felt the same. But 5 chapters out of the whole series is not bad at all. My favorite series of all time as of now.
I never took a break. But that's how you do it bro. Stop for a bit, then jump straight back in with a vengeance.
I never meant to take that long of a break. The First Law re-read just dominated most of that year.
Fucking SUBSCRIBED!!! Hot damn that intro slapped.
I don't want to comment too much on the old wounds fighting each other (I feel the reference the other commenter made to future books is already too much), but I can explain a bit why it is they fight each other.
The first wound Rand got in his side was from the sword used by Ba'alzamon aka Ishamael. The poison of Pure Evil that has been slowly killing him came from the Dark One.
This new wound is from the ruby-hilted dagger. The poisonous Evil is the Evil of Shadar Logoth. This was an evil that was created _in opposition_ to the Dark One. Mordeth taught the people of Aridhol to hate the Dark One and the Forces of the Shadow so much that they became an evil (Mashadar, the Mist of Death) pretty much as big as the Shadow, yet also opposed to it.
If it helps, it's kind of like the duality between _saidin_ and _saidar_ (except completely different). _Saidin_ and _saidar_ are diametrically opposed to one another, yet they both drive the Light, as well as the Wheel of Time. Shadar Logoth and Shai'tan are sort of that, but on the evil side.
I think I got most of that. I'm just glad to know it's something that isn't fully told yet because I felt like I was missing something.
The dagger wound from Fain would normally have killed someone but as you said in the review, it is fighting the evil of the wound Rand got from Ba'alzamon in TGH. That's why it didn't insta-kill Rand before Damar saved him And this is spoiler-ish but the reaction of the 2 wounds to each other inspire Rand to something really cool in the future
TheLoveMuscle4000 Ah, okay. So it’ll have pay off. Sweet. Thanks!
Mike's Book Reviews - Being as this is three months later, you'll probably not see this, but here goes... The two wounds are the evil of the Dark One and the evil of Shadar Logath, enemies of each other. I've read several of the other comments here addressing it, but never quite mentioning what seems to me to be the most critical part of of the wounds. Anyways, loving your channel. Came over from a recommendation from the Nae'blis channel. A pretty big WoT 'tuber who seemed very impressed with your reviews!
Just finished the book and this one was so great to me. Top 4 of 7 at least
Right from the intro I am hooked
Just finished this book! Some things that hit me upside the head while reading this one:
1. If Aes Sedai are bound by the oath rod not to use the one power as a weapon, why and how were the sisters who caught Rand in LoC able to do what they did to him?
2. In this book, why would Rand decide to open a large gateway in the middle of Illians busiest areas? We've seen how gateways can slice and dice ppl. And Rand is supposed to be particular about not causing death to innocents, especially women. Him just deciding to create a huge gateway in the middle of the Square of Tammaz didn't make sense.
Rand keep going off on his own when he has an army of Maiden bodygaurds and Ashamen doesn't make much sense either like what are you doing dude...... Rinse recycle repeat he'll do it again in another book like C'mon man maybe bring someone with you.
The sisters in LoC were not using the power as a weapon, they were using it as a torture tool. The oaths work on ones own subjective opinion rather than any objective standard so you can get around the oaths pretty well by just believing that what you are doing doesn’t count as breaking it.
You see this in several books where Aes Sedai just have to feel threatened rather than actually adhere to “last defense” part of the oaths. When they rescue Rand I believe one actually says “I feel pretty threatened now” before channeling.
What's the app you mentioned at the start?
i loved this one, the ending was confusing but i enjoy cliffhangers and stuff that isnt super clear cut
abdicated it to elayne
This book has been the most fun for me!
Hey Mr Mike! I was just curious about the app you mentioned - the one that summarises the characters.
It’s called WoT Compendium - Unofficial in the iOS store. I believe it’s called the same for Android.
Mike's Book Reviews Thanks! This is definitely going to help me a bit with all the Aes Sedai
Wish it only took me a week to get through a WOT book.
So that guy in Shadar Logoth wasn't Lews Therrin? I was 85% sure that it was😮
Which is the app that you talk about at the beginning? I also took a break and I just finished book 7 so I came to your review.
I sometimes have a harder time remembering all the names and things that happen because English is not my native language.
Thanks a lot!
It is called WOT Compendium - Unofficial. It's so great. play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=io.silvermast.wotcompendium&hl=en_US
Hate Morgaise chapters? Brace yourself mate.
When you said "rapey", I absolutely laughed so hard. That hit my funny bone just right. Thanks. 🤣🤣🤣
There is but not much actually.
@@karthickDharmarajan Well, that's good news.
@@mikesbookreviews With Mat and Tylin it's not that it was "rapey" he is attracted to her and does enjoy being with her but he doesn't like to be the one being chased he is the chaser and that is what bothers him so much with the situation, which is why the super girls as you call them find it funny and it's not just them that think it's funny but all the rest of the group do as well.
I enjoyed this one for the most part because it was more balanced. Second best for me so far.
To be honest, I did feel the slog here. This book felt like Jordan had 300 of pages of story (100 in the beginning and 200 packed at the back end), and the rest was pointless meandering in Ebu Dar. The internal monologues really started to wear me down here. I didn’t need 500 pages in the middle to get Nyaneve and Elayne to apologize to Matt.
_"What is wrong with you people?"_
LMAO!
I actually said that out loud while reading it. Buncha freaks in that family.
I was really surprised Rand didn't have a sword duel with Sammael since it was built up that he was great with a sword. He fights a lesser opponent and gets beat that's a head scratcher. Very unclear who helped Rand in Shadar Logoth. Seems like Rand recovered way too damn fast from that cursed dagger injury maybe if he had a month in the least to recover you could have bought it more. Kind of a John Wick moment hit by 3 cars and shot 20 times but not a scratch on him can sprint and do Kung Fu moves with no consequence. Seems to be a pattern of Rand going off on his own to do stupid shit when he has an army of body guards who could aid him the Maidens and Asha Men. I didn't see what he wanted to accomplish by going out to that rebel camp outside the city with Min what was he hoping to gain? The ending kind of really brought down the book.
Now, I'm feeling sane again.
Been on Daniel channel, and other WOT RUclipsrs, and everyone is fawning over Nynaeve, and I don't get it, I don't buy it.
So, admittedly, she has insecurities, she's overprotective.
During the books, her character arc is "amazing"?
Right, her social status evolves, a lot, so does her capabilities in her craft. I'm only on book 1o, and she probably does something amazing at the end.
But, internally, she does not change a iota, she doesn't evolve, and she doesn't even want to.
She's sexist, racist, hypocritical, violent, including physically, haughty, petty, and that's the beginning of the list.
So, do her deeds excuse her behavior? To me at least, it doesn't.
(And I loved Lan so much, oh Jordan, why do this to him, why...)
(Everyone hates Karen these days- with good cause, so where's all this love for Nynaeve coming from? She's the ultimate Karen form).
Finally finally someone like me
Hows it going Mike!? know it’s been a year and I’m not sure if your mind has been changed but MAT. Jordan makes it clear that Mat is obviously attracted to Tylen but does not want to pursue her because she is Queen and is dealing with all the Aes Sendai in Ebou Dar not to mention Elayne and Nyneave. So I do not think Mat was raped, just uncomfortable in the fact that Tylen was doing the chasing not Mat.
Min was always the best for Rand and their love story started back in Lord of Chaos in the lead up to the ending.
It is one of the few good relationships in the series. I appreciate that Jordan wrote a lot of them, just most of them are bad. I don't know if Jordan is so bad at writing them or if the world he built just makes things difficult since the women are so sexist. I have still never accepted Lan and Nynaeve as a bonafide couple. They make no sense.
Being forced at knifepoint to have sex with a beautiful queen is truly the stuff of nightmares. Or not really. I didn't like the disrespect towards Matt, but otherwise, it never bothered me.
I dont understand why not only one review adress the problem in the main plot rand x sammael. Rand defeated him (i believe he isn't dead though) after being 2 days in bed and he didn't even eat before the battle. Seemed like he could have made it sooner, i thought he would use an terangreal or something, but no.
Was the worst part of the book for me. The rest is pretty decent, i love the side characters and for me it was not a slog at all. Now heading toward path of daggers.
A Crown of Swords was my least favourite up to now but I still enjoyed it. There was a lot of five star material in this book, largely to do with Matt and the super girls, but there was a lot of two star material too, some of it to do with Rand, a lot with Perrin. I have always loved Min and love her even more in this one. I don’t mind Morgase. She’s not great but I quite enjoy her chapters. Ending was awesome. Moving on now with Path of Daggers
I think that one of the main reasons for the feeling of the slog (which I experienced live) was just how much shorter these next few books are. I waited for 18 months for this book and it was almost a 100,000 words less than the one before. And that gets worse with the next couple books. So it was extremely disappointing at the time. However I'm doing a reread now and I'm loving all of these books except probably Crossroads of Twilight.
Boy do I wish you had mentioned that app before. It never occurred to me to look for that. Looking up characters online is just impossible.
regarding Morgase, Robert Jordan does nothing without reason, evrything ties up or is explainable
I'm sure RJ knew what he was doing with her, I'm just past the point of caring about her or the CoL.
yep, i just mean evrything has value, all threads are woven
@@joakimnyback1931 I believe it. RJ is too smart to have throwaway characters/arcs.
Hey, what app were you talking about where you looked up Liah as a character up until Book 7 and got a spoiler-free synopsis up til that point. That seems really handy in general but I can’t find an app like that.
Yeah at this stage, and specially a couple of books further down the line, I would've appreciated more of Thom, Loial, etc, rather than a massive influx of characters I care little about. Still love the series though
Hey Mike, are any of the Conan books that you're read ghost written by Robert Jordan?
Negative. I am reading only the Robert E. Howard ones first. But if I check out any of the non-Howard works, Jordan is the only one I'd trust.