I was furious about Matt's rape and how everyone reacted. I don't recall Mat ever making it clear what happened, but I was pissed at everyone for their reactions. I was particularly angry that the rape seemed like an unnecessary thing to add. At least with Morgase it demonstrated how evil the White Cloaks are (although I was pissed about that, too).
Mat did tell Elayne what happened (after she accused him of forcing himself on the queen) and she laughed at first. After he selflessly gave her his medallion to protect her, she apologized. I hate her for laughing about it though
@@breezy3392 Yeah even when she apologized and took him seriously she said something like you are a good subject and I should show you respect. Umm no he's not your subject!
@@tadious9415 Technically he is. The Two Rivers is a part of her nation. But actually I think that's irrelevant. Elayne should have shown Matt some basic human respect from the start, especially given how many times he's raced into danger to save her and the other girls at the slightest hint that they were in trouble. Only after he gives her something, that she had been tormenting him for by the way, does she pull her head from her royal ass.
@@breezy3392 technically the two rivers has their own lord they declared. And andor hasn't shown up in like 5 generations. That's like me saying I'm the king of China despite never having been there and having no control over it. Not to mention he's a soldier in rand's army not hers. Definitely agree on the rest though! It's just annoying to me that even when she does recognize that he deserves respect it's only as a subject which he doesn't consider himself.
@@tadious9415 Fully agree with you on the annoyance with Elayne. And I do also agree with you that the Two Rivers isn't really a part of Andor in practice. That's why I said "technically". People who don't know the Two Rivers, other nations looking at a map would see it as being within the borders of Andor, and the royals see it that way. It does officially become it's own nation, Manetheren, later on in the series and I love that. But yeah, Elayne's insistence on Matt being a subject to her, I hate that.
Honestly, I feel like it's completely in character for Loial to not have changed much so far. The Ogier have longer life spans, and a year isn't as long for them to change as it is for the human characters. When their leaders need to make a decision, they measure the time that takes in years instead of weeks or months. I think it'd make sense that Loial grows up slower than the humans, especially from a psychological standpoint. Don't know if Jordan did that on purpose though.
This. Also, I don't quite understand the position that every character needs an arc? As in, that a character's arc being flat is not ok. In principle, I think that is kind of like being biased by fiction in general, because in real life not every single person goes through monumental change over a relatively short period of time - too much of that breaks at least my suspension of disbelief a little, and seeing how WoT seems to be a lot about creating a believable world, which partly hinges on having believable characters... Like you said, Ogier changing is kind of an oxymoron, but a young sheepherder forced to take on the role of an actual messiah figure would be expected to change drastically. It depends! Another factor in the case of WoT is that the cast is so huge, that it would be 100% unfeasible to allow everyone growth to the extent that any reader who likes any one character will be pleased with how they turn out.
I don't think we're supposed to like the stuff that happens between Mat and Tylin. It's there to show that these things also happen to men, and the sadly realistic reactions to it.
I heard that both Robert Jordan and Harriet McDougal (his wife/editor) both thought it was a funny send-up of the way men treat female rape victims. I don't know what on Earth possessed them to think that way, but here we are.
@@A.ManAlone imo if it causes people to cringe it is probably a good thing. I think we've gotten to a point where using irony is too easily condemned if you don't blatantly stick a "/s" everywhere.
@@A.ManAlone Honestly though, I've heard plenty of stories about real life male rape victims, and it's very common for them to get the same reaction that Mat did when they told someone. I don't think that Jorden really looked into this enough before he wrote it.
it was clearly meant to be a funny Karmic turnabout for Matt, to help him mature a bit. ultimately, after all, this is his last relationship before he meets his wife. So in a way, tylin helps break Mat of his Playboy Nature.
@@Jerome616 Hey stop that please. Could you take your spoilers to a video where they're welcome? Like a review of a future book in the series? So people like myself making their way through the series don't get spoiled on it like what you just did for me :(
Man I don’t get this whole “slog” nonsense. Just finished Crown of Swords and I loved it. Was it as action packed as some of the previous entries? Maybe not. But still some great things going on in this book and Mat is just an absolute pleasure for the entire read.
Just finished Crown of Swords and god do I hate the female characters. Please lemme not reach the Egwene book, she's the only main female I have no problems with and I think thats cause she has been absent for the last 4 books. I hate Nyneave so much that am starting to hate Lan too. Hate by association. And lets not talk about Elayne
@@kamarassakka9922 Brandon Sanderson is great at writing Nynaeve's character. He gives her the much needed maturation the last 3 books, but I agree Jordan did an awful job writing the female characters. Egwene is just the worst, and I hate the way all of them treat Mat. Rafe Judkins is pretty awful at writing the characters as well.
One of the things I truly appreciate about WoT is that despite how strong Rand gets he isn't invincible. Sure he does have some plot armor in that he isn't dying but things still massively affect him. His wounds both physical and psychological rack up and continue to have an impact as the series continues.
Yeah, I don't want to spoil things but the series does do a good job with power creep. It isn't always perfect, but there are usually reasonable challenges that scale with the protagonists. One big one in the last book is poorly done though, which I won't comment on further here.
Book 7 had some of my favorite scenes. I love Rand+Min. The scene where Rand gets stabbed and the the whole actions leading up to it worked really well imo. I love how he just walked into the rebel camp. You never mentioned Moridin?! Thoughts on him?
@A Toaster In Cariehen(sp), he walks into the rebel camp, woos some with speech, and then sword fights the other. But a bubble of evil happens in the midst of the chaos he is stabbed by the shadar logoth dagger. Then Min becomes super protective.
On my rereads, I basically skip through ALL of the Whitecloak stuff and most of the Perrin and Faile dramas. Definitely my least favorite of the 3 male characters. There are moments/books where Rand is very unlikable, but by the end of the series Rand is the runner up to Mat. Mats just more fun for me personally,but Rand as a character is definitely very well written indeed. Also, when I first read the series , I never recognized Mat and Tylins scene as rape. guess I was just a younger, more naive kid back then. But yeah, he most definitely didn’t consent to that.
Very interesting to see someone review the book series who has never read it before; if you'll allow me to sum things up: #1: Oh, its like LotR but different... this is pretty sweet lets read more #2: ooooh lot of cool stuff here, seems to be jumping around the place a bit but that ending! #3 Wait, where did Rand go? Oh, Perrrin and Mat are cool, its all good. #4 Aiel good, Perrin good, supergirls... boy they got annoying. #5 Wait, where did Perrin go, Rand and Mat are cool, its all good? Wait, why is there a circus involved? #6 I'm getting dizzy from all the plot lines now; least it ended well. #7 Why does RJ keep bouncing to the more boring plot lines?; least Rand and Mat stories are good! ----------- And none spoilerly predictions of how this review series will follow: (as non spoilery as I can make it at least) --------- #8 Many many Plots..... oh that's cool. #9 90% boring, 10% OMG! #10 Nothing happens. #11 You know how we took a break for a book?, well here is all the plot for 2 books in one! #12 OMG OMG OMG! wait, was half the cast was missing? didn't notice! #13 Ahhh here is the other half of the cast... wait did that just happen? SQUEEEEE!!!!! #14 I need to have a break for a week and try to process... but WOW!
@@AmeliaOak Not true. its because that is where the story needed to happen. KoD is the obvious example as RJs last book was really where the ever expanding plotlines and threads started to weave back together for a conclusion, and we all knew they would contract rapidly. Personally I am not that big of a fan of BS writing style compared to RJ, and remember it is not BS's story, it is RJ's he just wrote what RJ could not Due to his passing, not skill, we all knew RJ was good at endings and battles.
@@AmeliaOak I actually do like Brandon's writing a lot more, but I hadn't read any Sanderson books until Gathering Storm(and his other WOT books), so I was going in blind. But Wheel of Time as a whole is still my favorite series of all time, both the RJ and BS stuff.
Steven Wrightson Steven Wrightson I wasn’t trying to offer or say that RJ was a bad writer at all! I just noticed that y’all were saying the last books in the series were the best... I haven’t read WoT yet, but I want to. I have heard a lot of good things about it, except that some of the books are boring in the middle. And Brandon Sanderson is a very skilled author. He might take a more simplistic approach linguistically, but he’s great at characters, plot, magic systems, and twists too. There’s a reason he was entrusted with Robert Jordan’s masterwork.
I was grudgingly only reading the books from 1-9, but had to mainly listen to the audiobook for 10. I'm on 12 now and happy to be on to greener pastures 😅
You're reactions to Lord of Chaos and Crown of Swords pretty much mirror mine. Perrin is my absolute favorite character, and it's rough to see him downgraded at this point in the series. When I started WoT, I was in high school and CoS was the last book available. I read the rest as they came out, and your reviews have reminded me that I really need to read them in order again. But you have been echoing literally everything I remember from my first read-through. Love hearing your takes on everything so far!
The WOT world is about balance - like it was during the Age of Legends. When either men or women have too much power over the other, things don't go well, or at least not as well as it could. Restoring the balance is a major goal in the series, seen most clearly among the channelers.
Wow, Merphy didn't even mention Cadsuane. She deserves some mention with how much of an impression she gave. I hated her first first appearance, but I love her by the end of the book. I see why Rand needs her.
Man, I read this series in late 6th grade and haven't revisited it past the 1st book because of how much of a commitment it is but this review is making me definitely want to reread it again. Such a great series, man... So many different characters and names to remember, I have no idea how I kept it all straight when I read it lol. This plot is such an intricate spiderweb of plots and characters, so hard to remember them all I wouldn't skim through anything if I were you but if that's what it takes to get through to the ending, you do what you need to because this series really finishes on a strong note. Sanderson brings this series to such a beautiful conclusion
I would suggest listening to the audiobooks for the next few. Michael and Kate really help to get you through the slog. Also, I think you need some characters to continue the same instead of changing. That allows the reader to more clearly see the changes in those that do. It wouldn't make sense to see large changes in Loial since he is an Ogier.
During my first read of the series, I would have agreed with almost every negative point you've made. Especially about the women. I've had a huge change of heart on that subject, though. I used to think that Jordan was trying to raise women up above the men and that he was failing miserably. I don't know when I realized I was judging the women on a different scale than I did the men. For instance, I literally wanted to tear Nynaeve's pages out of the book at some points. Then I realized what Jordan was actually doing. He plays up gender so much to emphasize the fact that the difference between men and women is negligible--they are all equally petty and stupid. When I realized that, and that neither the men nor the women were being written better than the other it was an How I Met Your Mother moment with the glass shattering. My appreciation for (most) of the women skyrocketed after that. Including Nynaeve who is now one of my favorites.
I hate Nyeave and this didnt convince me. The way they she interracts with Mat is so goddamn bad. Elayne laughed at the rape. Tell me Mat or Rand or Perrin would have laughed then I will consider that "men and women are equally written poorly"
@@kamarassakka9922 I just read those chapters. I hated Elayne for laughing about it too. But unfortunately, that's not so much badly written as true to life for male victims of rape who don't get taken seriously in real life because of gender bias
yeah I feel like Jordan does a really good job with irony and applying things that happen in real life to fantasy. it's so much more real and the imbalance of power is also so real to life. it's an interesting world and overall he's done a good job.
@@kamarassakka9922 the way mat interacts with the girls is also terrible. He constantly treats them like idiots and damsels who aren’t capable of doing anything, and never shows them any sort of respect for a huge portion of the book.
Just finished watching all of these WOT reaction videos. And blood and bloody ashes. Over the last 17 years, I've read the series almost yearly. I'm on my 14th re-read at the moment. I obviously still love the series, but I can't remember the feeling of reading these for the first time. And watching you being swept off your feet by the series is extremely gratifying. Hope you enjoy the rest of the series. :)
The first time I read through this series, I kinda hated it all the way through and was just trying to get to the Brandon Books. Once it was over and I saw the whole scope of the series, it was by favorite series of all time. I have since read it another three time and love it more each time. My first time through was rough though.
You can do this Merphy! I skimmed through the slog as well I’m my first read. Everyone says this but books 12, 13, and 14 make every boring page worth it.
It is well worth it, no matter how much you hate "the slog" parts. Honestly, after my first time reading it, I remembered "a slog", and that it had a "slow start." When I re-read it, I didn't get that at all - I was gripped from beginning to end for the most part, but I enjoy political intrigue and world building.
I was a little surprised by this one, I actually found it pretty enjoyable overall, and far easier to get through than several of the earlier books. I agree that book 6 was hard to get through but had a great ending. I loved all of the scheming/political intrigue stuff that was going on in book 7. I felt like everyone was doing a lot of plotting, and I loved that. Really looking forward to starting book 8 - just checked it out from the library a few days ago, and hoping to start in the next few days!
You are totally spot-on with the power dynamics between genders and how Perrile and Rands Angels exemplify that. Really hoping the show makes some changes here.
aaah, my heart.. "Nynaeve has no character growth up until this point"... painful comment. My poor beloved Nynaeve. I know how you feel about her, and to be completely fair, I have read these books so many times that I no longer have any recollection of what I felt about her my first time through, but damn. That's harsh! She has (in my opinion, of course) one of the most amazing arcs in the series, and while it may just be hindsight because of how many times I've read the series, and now when I read it, I pick up on things I missed, but I feel like she's grown a lot by this point. Of course, it comes with a lot of growing pains, but that is to be expected.
Nynaeve seems to be one of those characters that you either hyperfocus on and love every bit of her character growth over the series or you completely ignore her until the end of the series and then realize how amazing she is and pick everything up on re-reads. Nynaeve is possibly my favorite character of all time, period across mediums. It's really hard to see people not love her the way I do.
@@amaresuify i really dont think so, her character doesnt advance one bit up until she marries land and after that she changes a lot but her amount of povs get less and less. additionally she is also kind of a mary sue imo, in as she always figures out these new incredible healing techniques and she has no idea how and it is all justified by her "instinctive" abilities she got from her time as village wisdom...its really annoying imo
@@disres1337 As Pearl said, whenever I pick up the books to reread them, I can't help but follow her arc, and she goes through a lot of changes before marrying Lan (although... to be fair, Robert Jordan does seem to think marriage to a man solves a lot of problems for women, it happens several times in the series). Her growth is pretty steady throughout the books. But, if you happen to fall on the side of not liking Nynaeve, then it isn't noticed because a lot of her growth (in my opinion) is internal, and so it's her internal monologue you have to pay attention to.
openning i see what you are saying but i simply dont think so, i paid a lot of attention to her because of what people said about her arc, but i simply dont see it
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the major thing that happened for Nynaeve after Moghedien attacks her ship. That particular scene really stuck with me for a long time.
Her surrendering and overcoming her block was awesome and deserved more page time. Her growth has been slow and well earned and continues. I’m only on book 9 now and I love her more and more. I always loved her though because even when she is angry and snappy, she is usually hilarious. Her and Mat get me to laugh out loud the most. Even Lan laughs because of her.
I finished the book yesterday and... I really liked the middle and the stuff almost at the end with the bowl, but I was kinda confused by the end. I found it to be a bit anticlimactic. Or I just missed a bunch of stuff
The reason some characters are not mentioned for a book is in the middle it was decided to split the books in half GoT style as the books became very think to cover the time period
@@chrispilkington8662 no worries. Like I said, I think it works at times. There were a lot of things about the story/characters/etc that grated at me at times. I mean, for that one cart ride a few books ago with Nyneave and Elayne I felt the parent listening to the kids bickering in the back seat for six hours. In a lot of ways it was grating, but in other ways it really was character development. I mean, the world seems like it is about to end and we're bickering about how fast the cart is moving. But, when you think about it that is how people are often. It is less easy to forgive in the narration. Yup, saidin is tainted. I think I've heard that a few times. Yes, women wear divided skirts. And a bazillion things my brain has tuned out so well that I can't even think about them...
Just found your read-throughs and have watched the videos on the WoT series. I started the series in the early 90s just after they started. I was a huge fan and made it to either this book or the last book... then just started listening to the audiobooks... and not even as soon as they came out. I got tired of a lot of the same things and even felt my feelings were misogynistic at times. I've started thinking that arrogance and bullying is a solid theme throughout the series. So many people in power demanding respect but only offering any in return out of fear... it started upsetting my stomach at times.You're right about the end scenes. When Amazon makes this their Game of Thrones in 2021, I'm sure they'll be smart enough to pick up the pace.
I'm on my first read through. I was reading along with you, but I'm now a book ahead. Probably cause of your break. I did switch to audiobook during book 6 because I picked up more hours at work and have no the be opportunity to listen at work now. I think they're helping with the "slog" I loved 6. CoS did take me awhile to really get into (either the introduction of cadsuane or nynaeve almost dying hooked me). I'm really digging Path of Daggers. I hear it's getting into the meat of the slog, so I'll thank the audiobook readers for keeping me so invested.
Hang in there! It really does get better. I think one of the strengths of the overall story is the discord between the men and women in the series as it reflects the unresolved conflict that tore the world apart. However, it doesn't look like a strength until after you've read everything. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on that going forward.
After 7 books, I feel something Jordan subtly pushes is that, true happiness/power is balance. It starts small in The Two Rivers with The Men’s Council & The Women’s Circle, then is brought up again with The White Tower & The Black Tower. It’s almost mentioned several times that the ancient symbol of Aes Sedai (Ying-Yang) back when men and women worked side by side in the age of legend). That’s my take on why one gender is so chaotic and messed up on it’s own.
I’m now on book 9 and I honestly don’t understand why The Perrin/Faile arc is so hated in this book, it’s just 6 chapters in total and less than 100 pages long, I didn’t feel it like a slog but maybe it’s just me
@@1910mich The Perrin/Faile slog felt longer than TFoH & LoC together. As soon as I got to one of their POVs, I automatically let out a groan. Them and Rodel Ituralde.
i enjoyed book 7. its path of daggers thats beating me up. so apparently things get even worse in books 9 and 10?! when will it get better? please say its 11. please tell me its not that bad and its jus the faile chs. i already dislike faile to begin with
@@vipset87 Honestly, no matter how hard the slog is hitting you, keep going. It's probably the most satisfying ending to a series I've ever read. After Remembrance of Earth's Past.
In regard to the women having more power in the book, consider that before saidin was corrupted there was total equality. After the breaking, all men must have been looked at with suspicion. It may not be fair but fear tends to override everyone's sense of justice.
I never thought the power-dynamics was Jordan trying to flip the script, I thought he was just drawing a logical conclusion of what would happen with Randland's history.
One thing to remember in regards to the love...square, I suppose, as it's more than a triangle for sure, is the strength of Rand's ta'veren..ness. I think it's more an extremely strong pull on the pattern than it is 3 women who are simply like, "omg let's share this man!"
I suggest the audiobooks for this series, Michael Kramer and Kate Reading do such a fantastic job. I can't wait for you to get to the end because it's so phenomenal.
I've read this series 3 times since I first fell in love with it when I was like 15ish. I always look forward to seeing these videos and I really apriciate the time and effort you put in to reading and giving your straight thoughts about the WoT. As everyone says this is a hard part on the first read through, but I really really think you will find it worthwhile, if not just for the youtube content. But my experience ( as many will have told you) of this part of the books is that you have to push on the first time, focus on the parts and characters you like, and then in the second read through you find another meaning in it because you know where it will lead. And that doesn't mean that you won't like the series the first time, just that this part doesn't feel as hard the second time. So in that perspective I can't disuade you from your decision to skim read some of it, because if that's what's gonna take you through the harder part (again, this was hard only on the first read), then go for it! I look forward to more of these videos!
blaze away through the slog! until you get to the point where oh ok, now it gets more fun. i have appreciated the series more and picked up on lots that i missed re reading it this second time. first time having no clue what was happening so sped through just to make sure to finish it. look forward to your next review!
@@DankAlighieri I actually hated her more in this book. Nyneave was my second fave right after Perrin till book 4. And its been a downfall since then. She reached rock bottom here and I swear if she doesnt start acting her age am gonna just skip her parts.
OMG, your reactions to things that pop into your head is greatness! It takes me back to my first read through that I did with me and my brother discussing the books as we read them. The thing you need to realize going forward, is, with every character, you MUST have patience. EVERY main, and most secondary character has a very up and down, slow and fast, story line, but it all has an ending that makes you realize that every thing they do, and go through, has a place in the story and makes them the person they become. There are so many characters, that every one of them will have a bit of a lull at some point. PLEASE, trust that each one will have an ending that explains every storyline about their character. I think this is what makes the people that have read it several times love it more with each reading. Jordan does not put characters in that do not have a satisfying ending. That is why people love this series so much. It's amazing that someone can write a book with so many characters, so many cultures, so much history, and so much world building, and actually tie them all together at the end, especially with another author being able to do it so well, off of just notes, that makes it such an amazing piece of work. I hope you enjoy it going forward. Keep trusting that the "slog" is just character and world building, and it IS leading up to the amazing end.
omg omg omg, after watching this, i want to talk so much about rand, his power level and the last battle and i can't, it's all spoilersss....... omg it's the best series ever :D
Nyneve was not saved by pigeons. She was able to break the block to channel she had created by actually finally fully surrendering to something. Lan was following her boat when the balefire hit.
I quite enjoyed the budding friendship between Mat and Birgitte as well! I'm watching your reviews after finishing each book, so thanks for making them!
Pratchett's books also make so many good points about how things work though! Vime's boots theory and Detritus the troll learning to count are both really important scenes to understand.
the only book in my opinion that is hard to read is crossroads of twilight (#10). basically nothing happens. but right from the start of the prologue in knife of dreams (#11) you can tell it's going to be different. the last book jordan wrote is amaaazing and all three sanderson books are as well. while a memory of light (#14) is a brilliant ending to the series, i feel like the gathering storm (#12) is probably the best out of the three. so many cool scenes and character moments. i think you'll really enjoy it when you get to it. just don't give up until then!!
Thought the elayne and perrin sections in book 9 can be hard to read but I didn't feel like book 7 and 8 were slog at all or at least 6-8 have a similar level of pacing with it slowing down in 9 then grinding to a painful halt in 10 where literally none of the stories progress forward.
I remember struggling a lot to get through books 7-9 and maybe even 10. I think the only things that really kept me going were the discussion threads in the Usenet group and reading all the theories is the WoT FAQ. That kept me excited about the series when the series itself slowed to a crawl.
Upon my rereads of books 2-5 I have found the best way to get through the slog is to look at the chapter symbols and just read about one character straight through until the mandatory meet up at the end. Once you hit that, go back and start a new character. For the most part, in those books at least, you don't miss much. But when I originally read three, I skimmed and missed so many of the important bits. Even though it feels repetitive, it's not and it's all important. Hell, if I hadn't forced myself to read everything I would still dislike Mat and Person, they were boring and bland to me at first. Now I love them.
Kudos to you on reading the series, I'm absolutely with you. The beginning and the meat of the series is amazing. I'll share with you what I learned from the Wheel of Time. I no longer start a series until the Author has finished it. Good luck on your endeavor and I'll be watching your channel to see how you feel about the series.
I started on the series back in the mid-90s and stopped after The Winds of Winter because it was such a slog and when Crossroads came out I heard it was the same, so I never finished. This year I've started over and it's my goal to read one a month. I'm on the second book already, so I'm ahead. I'm loving the series so far, but I'm dreading the slog.
Ehm, I guess you stopped after Winter's Heart. Cause The Winds of Winter is the ASOIAF book that GRRM has been writing for 10 years and still hasn't released xD. The slog is not that bad if you read the books back-to-back, although Books 9 and 10 are reaaaally slow and boring. But from Book 11 to the end, it's an amazing ride.
While it's a great series overall, the relationship models and male/female interactions are frustrating almost to the point of infuriating. The friendships are great, however. And how they are used in the end are great. Jordan handles the impacts of power very well and how it impacts different personalities. The slog (8-10) is worth it because 11-14 is incredibly paced and possibly one of the great finishes of all bookdom.
While I didn't like how the relationship dynamics worked, at the same time I can see the value of it. I think that the way the book really pushed some toxic gender issues actually made it possible to think about them in a different way. I'm not saying that the issues in the books happen in the same way as they do in the real world. However, I think they are things that do happen in the real world more subtly. By portraying this stuff in a way we aren't used to seeing it, I think it makes it easier to notice. In doing so, perhaps it will inspire is to look inward to how we might do the same things in a less noticable way. If all you get out of it is that a certain character is so unlikable because they're all disrespectful, and thank heavens I'm never disrespectful towards anybody, then you've missed the point. BTW, that "you" wasn't directed to anybody in particular.
@@RichFreeman The gender-balanced which was heavily skewed in Women's favour was inevitable considering the fact that they could use The One Power while the men could not. Coupled with the propaganda put out by the Tower that the men were to blame for everything... It didn't help matters that the Tower kept raising up False Dragons to cause Chaos so that they could be the virtuous saviours. The narrative being that: "Men destroyed the world", conveniently leaving out the fact that the 1st attempt essentially failed due to lack of cooperation by female Aes Sedai. Oops. Even in the final confrontation, the Aes Sedai again tried to sabotage the Dragons attempt at sealing the bore. Here's the exhaustive list of useful Aes Seda in the current age: Nynaeve, Moiraine, Cadsuane, Verin, Siuan, Leane, Egwene, Elayne. The last 2 barely qualify. Elayne as a convenient figurehead for the War, surely you should keep an eye on a Waygate *inside* your city. Egwene almost stopped Rand. Which would have resulted in a confrontation where he'd have to kill innumerable Aes Sedai, wasting his strength and depleting theirs. Also while it's true that Nynaeve is a savant at healing, are you telling me that the Aes Sedai could accomplish nothing in the Millenniums after The War to help the male users? Nynaeve solution alone would have kept them sane with regular treatments. Imagine how useful they'd been in the Trolloc Wars. The *only* solution is to lobotomize them, deprive them of Joy and *force* them to continue suffering? Female users who were stilled got to leave to end their lives, but let's keep the mentally insane alive and suffering as puppets to demonstrate our power and our virtue.
@@Lorkisen nobody is saying that the story is inconsistent with how relationships are portrayed. The story could have been written differently, which might have satisfied some more. However, I do think the way it was written lets us explore these ideas in a way that a world more similar to our own would not. That is of course one of the benefits of fantasy.
Everything you said I actually felt reading books 1-7. I struggled in book 6 until the end of course. Book 6 made me take a break for 4 1/2 months. Just finished book 7 and it was a faster pace then book 6 but still not as exciting as books 1-5. It has it's moments as do all his books overall. I didn't like Mat in books 1-2 because I felt he was an idiot and mean to Rand but as the series goes I acrually am liking Mat more and more I can see why the fans love him so far. Poor Perrin he was my favorite as wel, I hope to see better character development in the rest of the series with him. He is still my guy though.
I agree with so much in this review. On the one hand there's so much repetition (women finding men idiotic, men finding women baffling, descriptions of women's dresses and their necklines), and on the other hand I struggle to keep track of so many minor characters (I had to google the two black ajah who turn up near the end). And I feel reluctant to invest any energy into caring about these characters because I have no idea if they'll disappear for a whole book or if their thread will be dropped altogether.
Skimming these books has alloweed me to enjoy them way more on my first read through. I'm the type who cant enjoy superflous details till I know where things are going. On my reread I'll pay more attention to smaller details. I read most of my books like this now.
I love waking up to your videos Merphy! You’re making me think hard core about joining booktube but I already have a lot on my plate. I need to get time management down before I can even hope to upload a decent video
I'm with you on Lord of Chaos. Besides the great ending, I found it and Fires of Heaven sloggy. However, I found Crown of Swords quite good. Except for Jordan continuing to ruin Perrin. He's just made him Faile's boyfriend. Each book I keep hoping Perrin gets fixed but as I'm starting Winter's Heart this week, I've pretty much lost hope on that one.
- Rand has stated in his head several times that he loves Elayne, Min, and Aviendha. I think he is ok with it. - Mat is Ta’veren. Those who are Ta’veren seem too important to simply die in an insignificant way due to the way that the pattern is woven. - Rand was hesitant to take Illian’s Crown at first. The Lords told him that the people of Illian would have starved if Rand had not commanded the city of Tear to send them grain. Rand then felt like he somewhat deserved The Crown Of Swords. - The Wheel Of Time is a massive series in Fantasy. I find it understandable that Robert Jordan put some characters at a hold to properly conclude other character’s endeavors. I personally trust that Jordan had a plan for every one of the characters that others thinks he had forgotten. So far I generally think each book has gotten better and better, for the most part. I am constantly satisfied and impressed with The Wheel Of Time. I finished #7 and came here to hear your thoughts, and will continue doing so after finishing each book in the future. Thanks Merph!
It was a lot easier to get through “the slog” when the books originally came out because there was a multiyear gap between books. The slog sensation was much weaker under those circumstances. Just brace yourself for “Crossroads of Twilight.” That’s the low point.
If you're actually thinking about skipping you can actually skip selective chapters (from two particular POVs) and miss the worst of that book. I think skimming is the better approach though. I cracked up my audiobook speed for that one.
My experience was exactly the opposite: I only found there to be a slog when the books were being published, but when I did my reread in the lead up to the publication and release of *A* *Memory* *of* *Light* it wasn't noticeable at all.
Late to the party here I know.... The thing I don't like about this is Elayne and Nanaeve are so focused on they have to go to Ebou Dar and find the storeroom with the Ter'angreal they don't realize there is an easier way. Egwene figures out Traveling, you must know where you are better then where you are going, so they didn't have to leave Salidar. They could have just opened a gateway from Salidar to the hallway outside the door of the storeroom, since having been to the storeroom in Tel'Aran'Rhiod should have been more then sufficient knowledge of where they wanted to go.
I have said forever books 7-10 shpuld have been condensed to just two books with Perrin's story being the one that should have been trimmed and streamlined the most.
I think the TV series will have some real opportunities with the pacing. The whole story and character arcs are all developed and ready to adapt. They can keep the good and trim down the skirt smoothing...
Do you by chance remember the description of Laman’s sword AFTER Rand puts a more functional hilt on it? I feel like that’s the one that’s a katana, not Tam’s sword.
I agree with you on Perrin's storyline. He's my favorite character through the beginning of the series, and then at this point(book 7 onwards - I've read up through book 10 so I can't speak for what happens after that) his story is effectively reduced to him constantly being browbeaten by Faile, and his unending "I'm not a lord, don't call me that!" issue. Like, I hate to break it to you buddy, but your hometown raised ancient banners and fought for you, and now you have thousands of soldiers and some minor nobles all under your command. That... kinda makes you a lord, no matter how much you hate it. One of my favorite parts of this book was the Elayne/Nynaeve/Mat interactions - some really fun stuff there. And the Aes Sedai and the Ashaman - I forget his name, was it Grady? - both working together to heal Rand. That was so COOL, and I wanted so much more of the working together to solve problems bits. I love seeing the differences between men and women using saidin and saidar play out in the actual story, vs up until this point where a lot of it has simply been characters *discussing* that it works differently, but you as the read never actually get to see the effects of it. Thanks for sharing your thoughts, can't wait to see what you make of Path of Daggers.
I feel like Perrins view of Faile is the real problem. He assumes so much about her and for a very long time, that's our only lens for her character. She's a prominent character who has no voice besides the one Perrin gives her.
I think it's important to realize that not every character can be important whenever they're on screen. Sometimes they need to be sidelined so that more important things can be focused on.
One thing I’ve noticed on rereads is that the first POV of every main character in a new book is mostly recap. So if you were to skim chapters I’d recommend those chapters.
I couldn't wait for your review of this book. I just finished it this month too and I absolutely hated the rape scenes of Mat :( and when he finally told them them laughing and acting like it was his fault was infuriating! I'm enjoy the story for the most part but that storyline really made me mad... then it was explained away because "he does that to other women"??? YIKES! And Nynaeve's attitude is so annoying sometimes... when will she learn to listen and communicate and not just gate keep information that get's everyone in trouble or almost killed..... UGH!
I like the cattiness it shows there character growth Nynaeve was important and in a position of power. Put that aside to learn to control the dirty one power and get revenge on Moiraine Elayne trained to be the next queen of her country Egwene apprentice to be a wisdom, then a Aes Sedai, Then a wise one dreamer also picking up the some of the culture and custom of the Aiel
Tip for the slog: Path of daggers is great on audiobook. Also the series is masterful. Go ahead re read the first few chapters of book 1 and you will begin to understand the INSANE amount of foreshadow. Final thought - don't worry about the slog. Yes this next book will be a little difficult, but book 9 delivers !!
I don't think you're supposed to like the male/female dynamic in the series at this point. They still have to put the work in to improve communication & have mutual respect & admit faults. As someone in an open relationship, it's not completely unbelievable. Min is my favorite, too.
Agree with the relationships between men and women in the books. There was a few times in my read through"s (and re-reads) I just wanted to shake the characters and tell them "TALK...COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER...WORK TOGETHER!!! I like to think it is some sort of remnant of the dark one's influence plus the taint that make both genders mistrustful and not want to work together. At the end though I thought the dynamic and relationship was better. When I first started reading the series 10+ years ago, I struggled with how to pronounce names so I bought The Eye Of The World audiobook back around 2010...and then proceeded to buy all of them! I am currently on my 3rd re-listen and would highly recommend at least to go to your local library and listen to them, if you do not buy them outright. They really cleared up confusion on how to pronounce some names.
I found that swordfight and fog attack by Padan Fain feeling very... Goblet of Fire-y. Odd how you didn't mention Cadsuane, Moridin or Shadar Logoth. Those were my favorite parts of the book, fah.
Just finished reading this one for the first time, and I completely agree. There’s great moments, but I found it really hard to follow what was going on at times in this one. Jordan overexplains some things and then assumes the reader can piece together other moments, and I found myself getting lost frequently in this one. I adore Lan and Nynaeve!!
*Insert Daniel cheerleading Merphy on to finish the series*
I was furious about Matt's rape and how everyone reacted. I don't recall Mat ever making it clear what happened, but I was pissed at everyone for their reactions. I was particularly angry that the rape seemed like an unnecessary thing to add. At least with Morgase it demonstrated how evil the White Cloaks are (although I was pissed about that, too).
Mat did tell Elayne what happened (after she accused him of forcing himself on the queen) and she laughed at first. After he selflessly gave her his medallion to protect her, she apologized.
I hate her for laughing about it though
@@breezy3392 Yeah even when she apologized and took him seriously she said something like you are a good subject and I should show you respect. Umm no he's not your subject!
@@tadious9415 Technically he is. The Two Rivers is a part of her nation. But actually I think that's irrelevant. Elayne should have shown Matt some basic human respect from the start, especially given how many times he's raced into danger to save her and the other girls at the slightest hint that they were in trouble. Only after he gives her something, that she had been tormenting him for by the way, does she pull her head from her royal ass.
@@breezy3392 technically the two rivers has their own lord they declared. And andor hasn't shown up in like 5 generations. That's like me saying I'm the king of China despite never having been there and having no control over it. Not to mention he's a soldier in rand's army not hers.
Definitely agree on the rest though! It's just annoying to me that even when she does recognize that he deserves respect it's only as a subject which he doesn't consider himself.
@@tadious9415 Fully agree with you on the annoyance with Elayne.
And I do also agree with you that the Two Rivers isn't really a part of Andor in practice. That's why I said "technically". People who don't know the Two Rivers, other nations looking at a map would see it as being within the borders of Andor, and the royals see it that way. It does officially become it's own nation, Manetheren, later on in the series and I love that.
But yeah, Elayne's insistence on Matt being a subject to her, I hate that.
Honestly, I feel like it's completely in character for Loial to not have changed much so far. The Ogier have longer life spans, and a year isn't as long for them to change as it is for the human characters. When their leaders need to make a decision, they measure the time that takes in years instead of weeks or months. I think it'd make sense that Loial grows up slower than the humans, especially from a psychological standpoint. Don't know if Jordan did that on purpose though.
This. Also, I don't quite understand the position that every character needs an arc? As in, that a character's arc being flat is not ok. In principle, I think that is kind of like being biased by fiction in general, because in real life not every single person goes through monumental change over a relatively short period of time - too much of that breaks at least my suspension of disbelief a little, and seeing how WoT seems to be a lot about creating a believable world, which partly hinges on having believable characters... Like you said, Ogier changing is kind of an oxymoron, but a young sheepherder forced to take on the role of an actual messiah figure would be expected to change drastically. It depends!
Another factor in the case of WoT is that the cast is so huge, that it would be 100% unfeasible to allow everyone growth to the extent that any reader who likes any one character will be pleased with how they turn out.
I don't think we're supposed to like the stuff that happens between Mat and Tylin. It's there to show that these things also happen to men, and the sadly realistic reactions to it.
I heard that both Robert Jordan and Harriet McDougal (his wife/editor) both thought it was a funny send-up of the way men treat female rape victims. I don't know what on Earth possessed them to think that way, but here we are.
@@A.ManAlone imo if it causes people to cringe it is probably a good thing. I think we've gotten to a point where using irony is too easily condemned if you don't blatantly stick a "/s" everywhere.
@@A.ManAlone Honestly though, I've heard plenty of stories about real life male rape victims, and it's very common for them to get the same reaction that Mat did when they told someone. I don't think that Jorden really looked into this enough before he wrote it.
it was clearly meant to be a funny Karmic turnabout for Matt, to help him mature a bit. ultimately, after all, this is his last relationship before he meets his wife. So in a way, tylin helps break Mat of his Playboy Nature.
@@Jerome616 Hey stop that please. Could you take your spoilers to a video where they're welcome? Like a review of a future book in the series? So people like myself making their way through the series don't get spoiled on it like what you just did for me :(
Man I don’t get this whole “slog” nonsense. Just finished Crown of Swords and I loved it. Was it as action packed as some of the previous entries? Maybe not. But still some great things going on in this book and Mat is just an absolute pleasure for the entire read.
It happens after this book. Especially the heavy Perrin And Egwene Books.
Just finished Crown of Swords and god do I hate the female characters. Please lemme not reach the Egwene book, she's the only main female I have no problems with and I think thats cause she has been absent for the last 4 books. I hate Nyneave so much that am starting to hate Lan too. Hate by association. And lets not talk about Elayne
@@kamarassakka9922 Brandon Sanderson is great at writing Nynaeve's character. He gives her the much needed maturation the last 3 books, but I agree Jordan did an awful job writing the female characters. Egwene is just the worst, and I hate the way all of them treat Mat. Rafe Judkins is pretty awful at writing the characters as well.
Right ?! Just finished myself ! I’m about to pick up book 8 tomorrow! This story is just so fucking exciting
Well, the fact that you think the previous books are “action packed” is probably why you love books so much 😝
One of the things I truly appreciate about WoT is that despite how strong Rand gets he isn't invincible. Sure he does have some plot armor in that he isn't dying but things still massively affect him. His wounds both physical and psychological rack up and continue to have an impact as the series continues.
Yeah, I don't want to spoil things but the series does do a good job with power creep. It isn't always perfect, but there are usually reasonable challenges that scale with the protagonists. One big one in the last book is poorly done though, which I won't comment on further here.
Book 7 had some of my favorite scenes. I love Rand+Min. The scene where Rand gets stabbed and the the whole actions leading up to it worked really well imo. I love how he just walked into the rebel camp. You never mentioned Moridin?! Thoughts on him?
@A Toaster In Cariehen(sp), he walks into the rebel camp, woos some with speech, and then sword fights the other. But a bubble of evil happens in the midst of the chaos he is stabbed by the shadar logoth dagger. Then Min becomes super protective.
On my rereads, I basically skip through ALL of the Whitecloak stuff and most of the Perrin and Faile dramas. Definitely my least favorite of the 3 male characters. There are moments/books where Rand is very unlikable, but by the end of the series Rand is the runner up to Mat. Mats just more fun for me personally,but Rand as a character is definitely very well written indeed.
Also, when I first read the series , I never recognized Mat and Tylins scene as rape. guess I was just a younger, more naive kid back then. But yeah, he most definitely didn’t consent to that.
You didn't mention Egwene😭😭😭 I love how she manipulates the Hall and gains power with Siuan's help.
Very interesting to see someone review the book series who has never read it before; if you'll allow me to sum things up:
#1: Oh, its like LotR but different... this is pretty sweet lets read more
#2: ooooh lot of cool stuff here, seems to be jumping around the place a bit but that ending!
#3 Wait, where did Rand go? Oh, Perrrin and Mat are cool, its all good.
#4 Aiel good, Perrin good, supergirls... boy they got annoying.
#5 Wait, where did Perrin go, Rand and Mat are cool, its all good? Wait, why is there a circus involved?
#6 I'm getting dizzy from all the plot lines now; least it ended well.
#7 Why does RJ keep bouncing to the more boring plot lines?; least Rand and Mat stories are good!
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And none spoilerly predictions of how this review series will follow: (as non spoilery as I can make it at least)
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#8 Many many Plots..... oh that's cool.
#9 90% boring, 10% OMG!
#10 Nothing happens.
#11 You know how we took a break for a book?, well here is all the plot for 2 books in one!
#12 OMG OMG OMG! wait, was half the cast was missing? didn't notice!
#13 Ahhh here is the other half of the cast... wait did that just happen? SQUEEEEE!!!!!
#14 I need to have a break for a week and try to process... but WOW!
Steven Wrightson this is gold. I love it. 12, 13 and 14 are my favorites and I agree with your summary.
LOL it’s hilarious how you guys love 12, 13, and 14 the most because that’s where Brandon Sanderson took over...
@@AmeliaOak Not true. its because that is where the story needed to happen. KoD is the obvious example as RJs last book was really where the ever expanding plotlines and threads started to weave back together for a conclusion, and we all knew they would contract rapidly.
Personally I am not that big of a fan of BS writing style compared to RJ, and remember it is not BS's story, it is RJ's he just wrote what RJ could not Due to his passing, not skill, we all knew RJ was good at endings and battles.
@@AmeliaOak I actually do like Brandon's writing a lot more, but I hadn't read any Sanderson books until Gathering Storm(and his other WOT books), so I was going in blind. But Wheel of Time as a whole is still my favorite series of all time, both the RJ and BS stuff.
Steven Wrightson Steven Wrightson I wasn’t trying to offer or say that RJ was a bad writer at all! I just noticed that y’all were saying the last books in the series were the best...
I haven’t read WoT yet, but I want to. I have heard a lot of good things about it, except that some of the books are boring in the middle.
And Brandon Sanderson is a very skilled author. He might take a more simplistic approach linguistically, but he’s great at characters, plot, magic systems, and twists too. There’s a reason he was entrusted with Robert Jordan’s masterwork.
Dumai's Wells at the end of book six is one of the most incredible moments in fantasy ever
As someone who has read through the series a few times. I recommend listening to it on audiobook. I found getting through the slog less daunting.
I was grudgingly only reading the books from 1-9, but had to mainly listen to the audiobook for 10. I'm on 12 now and happy to be on to greener pastures 😅
seeing rand becoming more and more insane through each book is the most horrifying thing this series has to offer for me
You're reactions to Lord of Chaos and Crown of Swords pretty much mirror mine. Perrin is my absolute favorite character, and it's rough to see him downgraded at this point in the series. When I started WoT, I was in high school and CoS was the last book available. I read the rest as they came out, and your reviews have reminded me that I really need to read them in order again. But you have been echoing literally everything I remember from my first read-through. Love hearing your takes on everything so far!
The WOT world is about balance - like it was during the Age of Legends. When either men or women have too much power over the other, things don't go well, or at least not as well as it could. Restoring the balance is a major goal in the series, seen most clearly among the channelers.
That was how the Age of Legends was successful, because men and women worked together equally.
He's so hamfisted about it, though.
Wow, Merphy didn't even mention Cadsuane. She deserves some mention with how much of an impression she gave. I hated her first first appearance, but I love her by the end of the book. I see why Rand needs her.
Man, I read this series in late 6th grade and haven't revisited it past the 1st book because of how much of a commitment it is but this review is making me definitely want to reread it again. Such a great series, man...
So many different characters and names to remember, I have no idea how I kept it all straight when I read it lol. This plot is such an intricate spiderweb of plots and characters, so hard to remember them all
I wouldn't skim through anything if I were you but if that's what it takes to get through to the ending, you do what you need to because this series really finishes on a strong note. Sanderson brings this series to such a beautiful conclusion
I would suggest listening to the audiobooks for the next few. Michael and Kate really help to get you through the slog.
Also, I think you need some characters to continue the same instead of changing. That allows the reader to more clearly see the changes in those that do. It wouldn't make sense to see large changes in Loial since he is an Ogier.
During my first read of the series, I would have agreed with almost every negative point you've made. Especially about the women. I've had a huge change of heart on that subject, though. I used to think that Jordan was trying to raise women up above the men and that he was failing miserably. I don't know when I realized I was judging the women on a different scale than I did the men. For instance, I literally wanted to tear Nynaeve's pages out of the book at some points. Then I realized what Jordan was actually doing. He plays up gender so much to emphasize the fact that the difference between men and women is negligible--they are all equally petty and stupid. When I realized that, and that neither the men nor the women were being written better than the other it was an How I Met Your Mother moment with the glass shattering. My appreciation for (most) of the women skyrocketed after that. Including Nynaeve who is now one of my favorites.
That’s exactly what I thought
I hate Nyeave and this didnt convince me. The way they she interracts with Mat is so goddamn bad. Elayne laughed at the rape. Tell me Mat or Rand or Perrin would have laughed then I will consider that "men and women are equally written poorly"
@@kamarassakka9922 I just read those chapters. I hated Elayne for laughing about it too. But unfortunately, that's not so much badly written as true to life for male victims of rape who don't get taken seriously in real life because of gender bias
yeah I feel like Jordan does a really good job with irony and applying things that happen in real life to fantasy. it's so much more real and the imbalance of power is also so real to life. it's an interesting world and overall he's done a good job.
@@kamarassakka9922 the way mat interacts with the girls is also terrible. He constantly treats them like idiots and damsels who aren’t capable of doing anything, and never shows them any sort of respect for a huge portion of the book.
Just finished watching all of these WOT reaction videos. And blood and bloody ashes. Over the last 17 years, I've read the series almost yearly. I'm on my 14th re-read at the moment. I obviously still love the series, but I can't remember the feeling of reading these for the first time. And watching you being swept off your feet by the series is extremely gratifying. Hope you enjoy the rest of the series. :)
7:15 Mat to Merphy: *Am I a joke to you?*
The first time I read through this series, I kinda hated it all the way through and was just trying to get to the Brandon Books. Once it was over and I saw the whole scope of the series, it was by favorite series of all time. I have since read it another three time and love it more each time.
My first time through was rough though.
You can do this Merphy! I skimmed through the slog as well I’m my first read. Everyone says this but books 12, 13, and 14 make every boring page worth it.
I hope to start the Wheel of Time this year.
Me too!
You guys won't regret it!
It is well worth it, no matter how much you hate "the slog" parts. Honestly, after my first time reading it, I remembered "a slog", and that it had a "slow start." When I re-read it, I didn't get that at all - I was gripped from beginning to end for the most part, but I enjoy political intrigue and world building.
DO IIIIIIITTTT
@@Redfield982 I regret it ;(
I was a little surprised by this one, I actually found it pretty enjoyable overall, and far easier to get through than several of the earlier books. I agree that book 6 was hard to get through but had a great ending. I loved all of the scheming/political intrigue stuff that was going on in book 7. I felt like everyone was doing a lot of plotting, and I loved that. Really looking forward to starting book 8 - just checked it out from the library a few days ago, and hoping to start in the next few days!
FINALLY! I've been waiting for this!
You are totally spot-on with the power dynamics between genders and how Perrile and Rands Angels exemplify that. Really hoping the show makes some changes here.
aaah, my heart.. "Nynaeve has no character growth up until this point"... painful comment. My poor beloved Nynaeve. I know how you feel about her, and to be completely fair, I have read these books so many times that I no longer have any recollection of what I felt about her my first time through, but damn. That's harsh! She has (in my opinion, of course) one of the most amazing arcs in the series, and while it may just be hindsight because of how many times I've read the series, and now when I read it, I pick up on things I missed, but I feel like she's grown a lot by this point. Of course, it comes with a lot of growing pains, but that is to be expected.
Nynaeve seems to be one of those characters that you either hyperfocus on and love every bit of her character growth over the series or you completely ignore her until the end of the series and then realize how amazing she is and pick everything up on re-reads.
Nynaeve is possibly my favorite character of all time, period across mediums. It's really hard to see people not love her the way I do.
I know it wasn't until like my second or third read of the series (well, the first 7 or 8 books at least) that I actually took a liking to Nynaeve.
@@amaresuify i really dont think so, her character doesnt advance one bit up until she marries land and after that she changes a lot but her amount of povs get less and less. additionally she is also kind of a mary sue imo, in as she always figures out these new incredible healing techniques and she has no idea how and it is all justified by her "instinctive" abilities she got from her time as village wisdom...its really annoying imo
@@disres1337 As Pearl said, whenever I pick up the books to reread them, I can't help but follow her arc, and she goes through a lot of changes before marrying Lan (although... to be fair, Robert Jordan does seem to think marriage to a man solves a lot of problems for women, it happens several times in the series). Her growth is pretty steady throughout the books. But, if you happen to fall on the side of not liking Nynaeve, then it isn't noticed because a lot of her growth (in my opinion) is internal, and so it's her internal monologue you have to pay attention to.
openning i see what you are saying but i simply dont think so, i paid a lot of attention to her because of what people said about her arc, but i simply dont see it
I’m surprised you didn’t mention the major thing that happened for Nynaeve after Moghedien attacks her ship. That particular scene really stuck with me for a long time.
Her surrendering and overcoming her block was awesome and deserved more page time. Her growth has been slow and well earned and continues. I’m only on book 9 now and I love her more and more. I always loved her though because even when she is angry and snappy, she is usually hilarious. Her and Mat get me to laugh out loud the most. Even Lan laughs because of her.
I finished the book yesterday and... I really liked the middle and the stuff almost at the end with the bowl, but I was kinda confused by the end. I found it to be a bit anticlimactic. Or I just missed a bunch of stuff
Shawn-chan. Goal-ahm.
The reason some characters are not mentioned for a book is in the middle it was decided to split the books in half GoT style as the books became very think to cover the time period
I think it works well at times. Almost like a collection of individual stories against a larger backgrounds.
Sometimes...
@@RichFreeman wasn't arguing for or against was saying why it happens in that series specifically
@@chrispilkington8662 no worries. Like I said, I think it works at times.
There were a lot of things about the story/characters/etc that grated at me at times. I mean, for that one cart ride a few books ago with Nyneave and Elayne I felt the parent listening to the kids bickering in the back seat for six hours. In a lot of ways it was grating, but in other ways it really was character development. I mean, the world seems like it is about to end and we're bickering about how fast the cart is moving. But, when you think about it that is how people are often.
It is less easy to forgive in the narration. Yup, saidin is tainted. I think I've heard that a few times. Yes, women wear divided skirts. And a bazillion things my brain has tuned out so well that I can't even think about them...
Just found your read-throughs and have watched the videos on the WoT series. I started the series in the early 90s just after they started. I was a huge fan and made it to either this book or the last book... then just started listening to the audiobooks... and not even as soon as they came out. I got tired of a lot of the same things and even felt my feelings were misogynistic at times. I've started thinking that arrogance and bullying is a solid theme throughout the series. So many people in power demanding respect but only offering any in return out of fear... it started upsetting my stomach at times.You're right about the end scenes. When Amazon makes this their Game of Thrones in 2021, I'm sure they'll be smart enough to pick up the pace.
I'm on my first read through. I was reading along with you, but I'm now a book ahead. Probably cause of your break. I did switch to audiobook during book 6 because I picked up more hours at work and have no the be opportunity to listen at work now. I think they're helping with the "slog" I loved 6. CoS did take me awhile to really get into (either the introduction of cadsuane or nynaeve almost dying hooked me). I'm really digging Path of Daggers. I hear it's getting into the meat of the slog, so I'll thank the audiobook readers for keeping me so invested.
Hang in there! It really does get better. I think one of the strengths of the overall story is the discord between the men and women in the series as it reflects the unresolved conflict that tore the world apart. However, it doesn't look like a strength until after you've read everything. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on that going forward.
Glad I’m not the only one that thought the whole thing with Matt and the queen was really rapy
After 7 books, I feel something Jordan subtly pushes is that, true happiness/power is balance. It starts small in The Two Rivers with The Men’s Council & The Women’s Circle, then is brought up again with The White Tower & The Black Tower. It’s almost mentioned several times that the ancient symbol of Aes Sedai (Ying-Yang) back when men and women worked side by side in the age of legend). That’s my take on why one gender is so chaotic and messed up on it’s own.
The slog isn't book 6 onwards. The slog for me has always only been the Perrin/Faile arc in books 9 & 10.
I’m now on book 9 and I honestly don’t understand why The Perrin/Faile arc is so hated in this book, it’s just 6 chapters in total and less than 100 pages long, I didn’t feel it like a slog but maybe it’s just me
@@1910mich The Perrin/Faile slog felt longer than TFoH & LoC together. As soon as I got to one of their POVs, I automatically let out a groan. Them and Rodel Ituralde.
i enjoyed book 7. its path of daggers thats beating me up. so apparently things get even worse in books 9 and 10?! when will it get better? please say its 11. please tell me its not that bad and its jus the faile chs. i already dislike faile to begin with
@@cdubbau135 lmaoooo i can 100% relate to that groan
@@vipset87 Honestly, no matter how hard the slog is hitting you, keep going. It's probably the most satisfying ending to a series I've ever read. After Remembrance of Earth's Past.
Hi, where are the reviews for 8, 9 & 10?
In regard to the women having more power in the book, consider that before saidin was corrupted there was total equality. After the breaking, all men must have been looked at with suspicion. It may not be fair but fear tends to override everyone's sense of justice.
I never thought the power-dynamics was Jordan trying to flip the script, I thought he was just drawing a logical conclusion of what would happen with Randland's history.
@@judeconnor-macintyre9874 I'm early in the series right now, and yeah the power dynamics just seem like a logical progression given the world history
One thing to remember in regards to the love...square, I suppose, as it's more than a triangle for sure, is the strength of Rand's ta'veren..ness. I think it's more an extremely strong pull on the pattern than it is 3 women who are simply like, "omg let's share this man!"
Jordans fantasy world is very very real. People do have significant parts in your life and then just exist in the background.
I suggest the audiobooks for this series, Michael Kramer and Kate Reading do such a fantastic job. I can't wait for you to get to the end because it's so phenomenal.
I've read this series 3 times since I first fell in love with it when I was like 15ish. I always look forward to seeing these videos and I really apriciate the time and effort you put in to reading and giving your straight thoughts about the WoT. As everyone says this is a hard part on the first read through, but I really really think you will find it worthwhile, if not just for the youtube content. But my experience ( as many will have told you) of this part of the books is that you have to push on the first time, focus on the parts and characters you like, and then in the second read through you find another meaning in it because you know where it will lead. And that doesn't mean that you won't like the series the first time, just that this part doesn't feel as hard the second time. So in that perspective I can't disuade you from your decision to skim read some of it, because if that's what's gonna take you through the harder part (again, this was hard only on the first read), then go for it! I look forward to more of these videos!
Thank you for putting the playlist in order of the series! 😊
@Merphy Napier I am genuinely happy that you are starting to get excited with WOT!
Idk why but the "okay so" text at the beginning makes me smile and chuckle 🙃
blaze away through the slog! until you get to the point where oh ok, now it gets more fun. i have appreciated the series more and picked up on lots that i missed re reading it this second time. first time having no clue what was happening so sped through just to make sure to finish it. look forward to your next review!
Lan's role in the final book is amazing
Book 7 is where Nynaeve's arc really begins and turns her into one of the best characters in the series
Really? She didn't changed that much actually. I still cringed almost everytime she said something.
@@DankAlighieri I actually hated her more in this book. Nyneave was my second fave right after Perrin till book 4. And its been a downfall since then. She reached rock bottom here and I swear if she doesnt start acting her age am gonna just skip her parts.
OMG, your reactions to things that pop into your head is greatness! It takes me back to my first read through that I did with me and my brother discussing the books as we read them. The thing you need to realize going forward, is, with every character, you MUST have patience. EVERY main, and most secondary character has a very up and down, slow and fast, story line, but it all has an ending that makes you realize that every thing they do, and go through, has a place in the story and makes them the person they become. There are so many characters, that every one of them will have a bit of a lull at some point. PLEASE, trust that each one will have an ending that explains every storyline about their character. I think this is what makes the people that have read it several times love it more with each reading. Jordan does not put characters in that do not have a satisfying ending. That is why people love this series so much. It's amazing that someone can write a book with so many characters, so many cultures, so much history, and so much world building, and actually tie them all together at the end, especially with another author being able to do it so well, off of just notes, that makes it such an amazing piece of work. I hope you enjoy it going forward. Keep trusting that the "slog" is just character and world building, and it IS leading up to the amazing end.
"I want Lanfear to come back."
Funny, I'd have thought you'd say that about Moiraine...
i like lanfear more than moiraine
omg omg omg, after watching this, i want to talk so much about rand, his power level and the last battle and i can't, it's all spoilersss....... omg it's the best series ever :D
Nyneve was not saved by pigeons. She was able to break the block to channel she had created by actually finally fully surrendering to something.
Lan was following her boat when the balefire hit.
I quite enjoyed the budding friendship between Mat and Birgitte as well! I'm watching your reviews after finishing each book, so thanks for making them!
Also for relationship build up, Mat and the daughter of the nine moons is built up really well.
I dont remember recaps that much but they are there so that you can not forget names of people places and things. Looking at you merph!
Getting back into Jordan, Cool! I think you might like Terry Pratchett, Although it is loaded with humor, Not very serious fantasy but awesome anyway
Pratchett's books also make so many good points about how things work though! Vime's boots theory and Detritus the troll learning to count are both really important scenes to understand.
the only book in my opinion that is hard to read is crossroads of twilight (#10). basically nothing happens. but right from the start of the prologue in knife of dreams (#11) you can tell it's going to be different. the last book jordan wrote is amaaazing and all three sanderson books are as well. while a memory of light (#14) is a brilliant ending to the series, i feel like the gathering storm (#12) is probably the best out of the three. so many cool scenes and character moments. i think you'll really enjoy it when you get to it. just don't give up until then!!
Thought the elayne and perrin sections in book 9 can be hard to read but I didn't feel like book 7 and 8 were slog at all or at least 6-8 have a similar level of pacing with it slowing down in 9 then grinding to a painful halt in 10 where literally none of the stories progress forward.
Are we finally and officially doing "Ok so" a thing? 😁
I hope so!
I remember struggling a lot to get through books 7-9 and maybe even 10. I think the only things that really kept me going were the discussion threads in the Usenet group and reading all the theories is the WoT FAQ. That kept me excited about the series when the series itself slowed to a crawl.
Upon my rereads of books 2-5 I have found the best way to get through the slog is to look at the chapter symbols and just read about one character straight through until the mandatory meet up at the end. Once you hit that, go back and start a new character. For the most part, in those books at least, you don't miss much. But when I originally read three, I skimmed and missed so many of the important bits. Even though it feels repetitive, it's not and it's all important. Hell, if I hadn't forced myself to read everything I would still dislike Mat and Person, they were boring and bland to me at first. Now I love them.
Kudos to you on reading the series, I'm absolutely with you. The beginning and the meat of the series is amazing. I'll share with you what I learned from the Wheel of Time. I no longer start a series until the Author has finished it. Good luck on your endeavor and I'll be watching your channel to see how you feel about the series.
So psyched to find your reviews, now I am ready to read WOT again and catch up to you on Book 8
imagine you saved someone from drowning and as thanks they start beating you with magic
I started on the series back in the mid-90s and stopped after The Winds of Winter because it was such a slog and when Crossroads came out I heard it was the same, so I never finished. This year I've started over and it's my goal to read one a month. I'm on the second book already, so I'm ahead. I'm loving the series so far, but I'm dreading the slog.
Ehm, I guess you stopped after Winter's Heart. Cause The Winds of Winter is the ASOIAF book that GRRM has been writing for 10 years and still hasn't released xD.
The slog is not that bad if you read the books back-to-back, although Books 9 and 10 are reaaaally slow and boring. But from Book 11 to the end, it's an amazing ride.
@@tommy_svkyes, erg.. not sure how I confused those.
While it's a great series overall, the relationship models and male/female interactions are frustrating almost to the point of infuriating.
The friendships are great, however. And how they are used in the end are great.
Jordan handles the impacts of power very well and how it impacts different personalities.
The slog (8-10) is worth it because 11-14 is incredibly paced and possibly one of the great finishes of all bookdom.
While I didn't like how the relationship dynamics worked, at the same time I can see the value of it. I think that the way the book really pushed some toxic gender issues actually made it possible to think about them in a different way.
I'm not saying that the issues in the books happen in the same way as they do in the real world. However, I think they are things that do happen in the real world more subtly. By portraying this stuff in a way we aren't used to seeing it, I think it makes it easier to notice. In doing so, perhaps it will inspire is to look inward to how we might do the same things in a less noticable way.
If all you get out of it is that a certain character is so unlikable because they're all disrespectful, and thank heavens I'm never disrespectful towards anybody, then you've missed the point.
BTW, that "you" wasn't directed to anybody in particular.
@@RichFreeman The gender-balanced which was heavily skewed in Women's favour was inevitable considering the fact that they could use The One Power while the men could not. Coupled with the propaganda put out by the Tower that the men were to blame for everything... It didn't help matters that the Tower kept raising up False Dragons to cause Chaos so that they could be the virtuous saviours. The narrative being that: "Men destroyed the world", conveniently leaving out the fact that the 1st attempt essentially failed due to lack of cooperation by female Aes Sedai. Oops. Even in the final confrontation, the Aes Sedai again tried to sabotage the Dragons attempt at sealing the bore.
Here's the exhaustive list of useful Aes Seda in the current age: Nynaeve, Moiraine, Cadsuane, Verin, Siuan, Leane, Egwene, Elayne. The last 2 barely qualify. Elayne as a convenient figurehead for the War, surely you should keep an eye on a Waygate *inside* your city. Egwene almost stopped Rand. Which would have resulted in a confrontation where he'd have to kill innumerable Aes Sedai, wasting his strength and depleting theirs.
Also while it's true that Nynaeve is a savant at healing, are you telling me that the Aes Sedai could accomplish nothing in the Millenniums after The War to help the male users? Nynaeve solution alone would have kept them sane with regular treatments. Imagine how useful they'd been in the Trolloc Wars. The *only* solution is to lobotomize them, deprive them of Joy and *force* them to continue suffering? Female users who were stilled got to leave to end their lives, but let's keep the mentally insane alive and suffering as puppets to demonstrate our power and our virtue.
@@Lorkisen nobody is saying that the story is inconsistent with how relationships are portrayed. The story could have been written differently, which might have satisfied some more. However, I do think the way it was written lets us explore these ideas in a way that a world more similar to our own would not. That is of course one of the benefits of fantasy.
I just finished book 8, what is the slog?!
Everything you said I actually felt reading books 1-7. I struggled in book 6 until the end of course. Book 6 made me take a break for 4 1/2 months. Just finished book 7 and it was a faster pace then book 6 but still not as exciting as books 1-5. It has it's moments as do all his books overall. I didn't like Mat in books 1-2 because I felt he was an idiot and mean to Rand but as the series goes I acrually am liking Mat more and more I can see why the fans love him so far. Poor Perrin he was my favorite as wel, I hope to see better character development in the rest of the series with him. He is still my guy though.
Just keep pushing through
I agree with so much in this review. On the one hand there's so much repetition (women finding men idiotic, men finding women baffling, descriptions of women's dresses and their necklines), and on the other hand I struggle to keep track of so many minor characters (I had to google the two black ajah who turn up near the end). And I feel reluctant to invest any energy into caring about these characters because I have no idea if they'll disappear for a whole book or if their thread will be dropped altogether.
Skimming these books has alloweed me to enjoy them way more on my first read through. I'm the type who cant enjoy superflous details till I know where things are going. On my reread I'll pay more attention to smaller details. I read most of my books like this now.
Everything you said is so fair and makes me feel validated.
I love waking up to your videos Merphy! You’re making me think hard core about joining booktube but I already have a lot on my plate. I need to get time management down before I can even hope to upload a decent video
I'm with you on Lord of Chaos. Besides the great ending, I found it and Fires of Heaven sloggy. However, I found Crown of Swords quite good. Except for Jordan continuing to ruin Perrin. He's just made him Faile's boyfriend. Each book I keep hoping Perrin gets fixed but as I'm starting Winter's Heart this week, I've pretty much lost hope on that one.
Just make it to Knife of Dreams. It's worth it then.
Jonathan Koan That’s what everyone tells me. “Just get to Knife of Dreams.”
"Rand has becomed so unhinged!"
Books 11 and 12 Rand enters the chat...
Ploughing through to get to Brando. The audiobooks are the only thing getting me through WoT.
- Rand has stated in his head several times that he loves Elayne, Min, and Aviendha. I think he is ok with it.
- Mat is Ta’veren. Those who are Ta’veren seem too important to simply die in an insignificant way due to the way that the pattern is woven.
- Rand was hesitant to take Illian’s Crown at first. The Lords told him that the people of Illian would have starved if Rand had not commanded the city of Tear to send them grain. Rand then felt like he somewhat deserved The Crown Of Swords.
- The Wheel Of Time is a massive series in Fantasy. I find it understandable that Robert Jordan put some characters at a hold to properly conclude other character’s endeavors. I personally trust that Jordan had a plan for every one of the characters that others thinks he had forgotten.
So far I generally think each book has gotten better and better, for the most part. I am constantly satisfied and impressed with The Wheel Of Time. I finished #7 and came here to hear your thoughts, and will continue doing so after finishing each book in the future. Thanks Merph!
It was a lot easier to get through “the slog” when the books originally came out because there was a multiyear gap between books. The slog sensation was much weaker under those circumstances. Just brace yourself for “Crossroads of Twilight.” That’s the low point.
I would skip Crossroads of Twilight. Im serious.
J Shroud I’d skip the first 85% or so. Everything before that is literally pointless, but the story does finally move forward at the end.
If you're actually thinking about skipping you can actually skip selective chapters (from two particular POVs) and miss the worst of that book. I think skimming is the better approach though. I cracked up my audiobook speed for that one.
My experience was exactly the opposite: I only found there to be a slog when the books were being published, but when I did my reread in the lead up to the publication and release of *A* *Memory* *of* *Light* it wasn't noticeable at all.
Don't Skip CoT! Atleast the M&T Pov's from it were EXCELLENT. The most organic relationship in WoT, at least up til this point.
Whoa we're halfway there!
Late to the party here I know....
The thing I don't like about this is Elayne and Nanaeve are so focused on they have to go to Ebou Dar and find the storeroom with the Ter'angreal they don't realize there is an easier way. Egwene figures out Traveling, you must know where you are better then where you are going, so they didn't have to leave Salidar. They could have just opened a gateway from Salidar to the hallway outside the door of the storeroom, since having been to the storeroom in Tel'Aran'Rhiod should have been more then sufficient knowledge of where they wanted to go.
"Perrin was absent in book 6" ... wait, what?
Where are the books 8-10 reviews?
I have said forever books 7-10 shpuld have been condensed to just two books with Perrin's story being the one that should have been trimmed and streamlined the most.
I think the TV series will have some real opportunities with the pacing. The whole story and character arcs are all developed and ready to adapt. They can keep the good and trim down the skirt smoothing...
I also allowed me to start skimming. Right at this book. 😂
Do you by chance remember the description of Laman’s sword AFTER Rand puts a more functional hilt on it? I feel like that’s the one that’s a katana, not Tam’s sword.
I agree with you on Perrin's storyline. He's my favorite character through the beginning of the series, and then at this point(book 7 onwards - I've read up through book 10 so I can't speak for what happens after that) his story is effectively reduced to him constantly being browbeaten by Faile, and his unending "I'm not a lord, don't call me that!" issue. Like, I hate to break it to you buddy, but your hometown raised ancient banners and fought for you, and now you have thousands of soldiers and some minor nobles all under your command. That... kinda makes you a lord, no matter how much you hate it.
One of my favorite parts of this book was the Elayne/Nynaeve/Mat interactions - some really fun stuff there.
And the Aes Sedai and the Ashaman - I forget his name, was it Grady? - both working together to heal Rand. That was so COOL, and I wanted so much more of the working together to solve problems bits. I love seeing the differences between men and women using saidin and saidar play out in the actual story, vs up until this point where a lot of it has simply been characters *discussing* that it works differently, but you as the read never actually get to see the effects of it.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, can't wait to see what you make of Path of Daggers.
Keep reading, Perrin's arc through the middle books is not an accident or mistake. You are supposed to feel this way.
@@TGT916 I'm intrigued
I feel like Perrins view of Faile is the real problem. He assumes so much about her and for a very long time, that's our only lens for her character. She's a prominent character who has no voice besides the one Perrin gives her.
Yeah, imo faile > perrin.
I think it's important to realize that not every character can be important whenever they're on screen. Sometimes they need to be sidelined so that more important things can be focused on.
One thing I’ve noticed on rereads is that the first POV of every main character in a new book is mostly recap. So if you were to skim chapters I’d recommend those chapters.
I couldn't wait for your review of this book. I just finished it this month too and I absolutely hated the rape scenes of Mat :( and when he finally told them them laughing and acting like it was his fault was infuriating! I'm enjoy the story for the most part but that storyline really made me mad... then it was explained away because "he does that to other women"??? YIKES! And Nynaeve's attitude is so annoying sometimes... when will she learn to listen and communicate and not just gate keep information that get's everyone in trouble or almost killed..... UGH!
I like the cattiness it shows there character growth
Nynaeve was important and in a position of power. Put that aside to learn to control the dirty one power and get revenge on Moiraine
Elayne trained to be the next queen of her country
Egwene apprentice to be a wisdom, then a Aes Sedai, Then a wise one dreamer also picking up the some of the culture and custom of the Aiel
Tip for the slog: Path of daggers is great on audiobook. Also the series is masterful. Go ahead re read the first few chapters of book 1 and you will begin to understand the INSANE amount of foreshadow.
Final thought - don't worry about the slog. Yes this next book will be a little difficult, but book 9 delivers !!
I don't think you're supposed to like the male/female dynamic in the series at this point. They still have to put the work in to improve communication & have mutual respect & admit faults.
As someone in an open relationship, it's not completely unbelievable. Min is my favorite, too.
Agree with the relationships between men and women in the books. There was a few times in my read through"s (and re-reads) I just wanted to shake the characters and tell them "TALK...COMMUNICATE WITH EACH OTHER...WORK TOGETHER!!! I like to think it is some sort of remnant of the dark one's influence plus the taint that make both genders mistrustful and not want to work together. At the end though I thought the dynamic and relationship was better.
When I first started reading the series 10+ years ago, I struggled with how to pronounce names so I bought The Eye Of The World audiobook back around 2010...and then proceeded to buy all of them! I am currently on my 3rd re-listen and would highly recommend at least to go to your local library and listen to them, if you do not buy them outright. They really cleared up confusion on how to pronounce some names.
I have found that listening to the series on audio book has helped a lot, even though I normally read books instead
I found that swordfight and fog attack by Padan Fain feeling very... Goblet of Fire-y. Odd how you didn't mention Cadsuane, Moridin or Shadar Logoth. Those were my favorite parts of the book, fah.
Just finished reading this one for the first time, and I completely agree. There’s great moments, but I found it really hard to follow what was going on at times in this one. Jordan overexplains some things and then assumes the reader can piece together other moments, and I found myself getting lost frequently in this one. I adore Lan and Nynaeve!!
As someone whose currently on the last book I gotta say getting through the slog is worth it.
I like Lord of Chaos, but I think you are right that is where the pacing issues really kick in.