My Thoughts On JetBrains Fleet
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- JetBrains Fleet is the newest editor in the editor arms race. It's paid though, but also pretty good, so who knows, maybe it's a good option? My thoughts in this video.
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One thing to note: If you buy 1 year of jetbrains software, you get that version forever, so even if you stop paying, you can keep using that year’s release. Sure it won’t get any more updates until you buy another year, but generally things will continue to work
I keep paying jetbrains as long as I can afford it. It is relative cheap given that we spent one license of cost each time we visit grocery store anyway. jetbrain is the only independent company that makes IDE that both work and dont look like something out of a 80s scifi movie. I would like to support their work
huh, good to know, but can you for whatever reason reinstall it? or when you uninstall it it's gone and must pay subscribtion again?
@@faisalhakim5920 You can get more info on their website, but you get a sort of special key
extremely useful info, didn’t know that
@@faisalhakim5920yes. The license is linked to yier account and you can reinstall and use it just like when you originally paid for. All versions that you paid for their stipulated time would be available along with any fix versions if any is released.
I use PHPstorm for my private development, and will be using it in a job soon too.
The cost of an IDE can quickly be offset with the time you will save on not having to lookup function structures. It will automatically debug for you and check consistency in your code.
Nowadays two trips to a burger drive-in is almost the same as a the license cost for a year.
Question, why do you not use software you have to pay for?
I think Microsoft got windows developers hooked on Visual Studio ( a take-off of their Office suite of a bundled suite of software ). I believe Apple had developers paying for Xcode at one point. But Eclipse and NetBeans were free ecosystems for Java, and other IDEs for other languages made it difficult to justify spending hundreds of dollars on a suite when a nearly-equivalent IDE was free. So now it’s a race for as much functionality for as little as possible. Even EMACS and Vim were battling it out on the text-based support. Competition is healthy, and we all benefit when the playing field is level.
You seem to nag a lot about paying for software... weird for a software programmer. Do you want to work for free? You don't want to pay for a product that increases your productivity and thus realizes pecuniary gains?
Any insight on Zed? Basic nightmare. Investing on product only to see it's no longer supported.
In North America, if you take out a friend for a nice meal, that would cost you $100 on average these days, roughly TWICE the annual cost of a one JB product license, and that's just one meal in one day.
But more importantly, economically, would you pay $60 a year for a company (a bunch of developers, like us) to fix and maintain for you a piece of software to make it a pleasant experience to write code that will earn you somewhere between $50K - $200K a year ?
The final "its not ethical to pay for corporate software" argument (if it ever qualifies as rational one) doesn't work, because everyone will eventually find themselves spending much more money towards truly unethical companies: Apple, Verizon, Walmart, Amazon, to name a few.
4:25 I think every programmer should immediately configure his own key bindings in any IDE.
I tried once to switch to VSCode from PHPStorm - spent an hour trying to find how to change key bindings, deleted it, went back to PHPStorm and never looked back.
Absolutely spot on! Jetbrains cleverly announced Fleet without revealing its pricing so the hype train around VSCode killer went full steam. After the pricing was revealed the paid version is the only usable option and since it is similar to their all product pack offering (even if it's a stripped down version of it) I highly doubt it will cost anywhere near 5$ a month like a tool such as a WebStorm for example.
There is no way to check with what IDE something was developed. I don't see why companies can't just hand free licenses to their employees.
@Ivan Melnikov prison time seems massively exaggerated. massive fines; most definitely. But only if there is proof. It's not always so easy to prove what goes in internally in businesses.
@Ivan Melnikov i guess it'd be easy to omit licenses. Morality apart, it probably wouldn't be worth the risk for any sort of company but a start-up or one-man business/project (low staff, low budget)
Most do. At least well companies of repute that I've worked in will get you. Mine pays for Idea ultimate for all dev teams. Sadly its not the full pack but since we are predominantly java orieted that doesnt matter much.
Here are my 2¢ as a primarily backend dev (Java) with some front end mixed in (react + typescript): I am not at all interested in Fleet and would prefer they focus on improving remote development across each of their IDEs.
Their existing offering (Gateway) is plagued by consistency issues (sometimes it just won’t work/launch at all) as well as high latency (on the order of individual key presses taking at least 1s at times).
I primarily use IntelliJ as it’s the best for Java development in my mind, but recently my interest in developing remotely has clashed with my preference towards IntelliJ, so I’ve been using VSCode. It’s a subpar experience even with everything configured correctly (which is a non-zero time commitment up front, depending on your environment), and I’m hoping once Gateway is out of beta the tool will be significantly more robust.
I feel like I have a good relationship with JetBrains, during my studies they offered me all their software for free for years. Then after that they gave me a graduation discount. I was happy to pay them for their work. And I hope they stay good and that we can work together for many years to come.
I've only been a paid software developer for 40 years, so do not have a lot of experience in this area, but here are my thoughts:
I agree that "Free is nice', but I am willing to pay a reasonable fee for "top tier excellent IDEs far superior than anything I've ever used in my career". In my opinion, the $175 per year that I pay for the All Products Pack is reasonable. Assuming that I am spending 1000 hours a year in the IDE, it works out to 17 cents an hour to be using the most helpful tool set out there. I feel I am more productive and comfortable using the top quality stuff ... and it is less than a great bottle of Scotch 😀
My preference would be that my employer\customer provide me with the tools that I prefer to work with. That costs me nothing. The reality is that doesn't happen very often. The alternative is that they allow me to bring the tools I prefer use with me (similar to other 'construction' industries where the employee brings their personal tools to the jobsite and the employer provides the larger, more expensive items). Do not require me to use only what your internal policies are capable of providing.
#DEFINE RANT_ON
Over the years I've found it interesting that the Accounting Spreadsheets have no problem defining developer burden rates (salary, square footage, vacation, benefits, etc.) that are in triple digits per hour yet balk at providing tool sets (capable hardware and software) that amount to rounding errors on that burden rate.
#DEFINE RANT_OFF
Same thoughts as mine.
Visual Studio Code works great with our team. A free alternative is not attractive, let alone a paid one. The time investment required to learn a new IDE alone is enough to make a switch difficult.
It’s crazy they did not match the keyboard shortcuts of code. One more barrier
You can select between 4 (I guess) Keybind layouts, including vscode
@@dave-7117 thanks for clarifying! The lack of a direct map felt odd, this makes more sense
Why is paying for a tool like this bad?
I always used git from the command line, because I found the built in solutions clumsy. But in Fleet, git is actually good and easy to use. And it's there on a tab next to the project structure. The other features that are visible in it, despite it's not a complete software yet are also good. I will look into switching to it from PhpStorm when it's ready.
I really hope they will do the same they did with intellij idea. The community version should be open source under apache 2.0.
I just start using it and with Python its a lot better then VSCode so far. I mean it prevents messy code a lot better i my opinion, with proper reformat suggestions.
Don't know if Atom is Still out there or gets updated to be precise so I just did the same half a year ago to go to vscode and try to be curious for any telemetry
Atom is long dead
For the features that Jetbrains delivers on their products, I have 0 objectives in paying money for it. You seem to object out of principal, which is your perspective from what I can tell, I just want to help support a company that delivers exceptional software. I have yet to see another IDE that comes close to Jetbrains. Trying out Fleet, weirdly enough, i am getting PTSD vibes of VSCode. Hoping it's a different story from the Full Fledge version
I use PyCharm daily and I love it. Wouldn't pay for any IDE tho.
I pay ~ $57/yr for RubyMine. Worth it for the functionality and range of supported languages (JS, Elixir, JRuby, SCSS, etc), and graphical SQL & Git (merge) support. Would I pay $5/mo? Already close to that. 10? Probably. $50? No.
Why do you not like paid editors?
I have no reason to use it. IntelliJ is good enough for java and everything else I use neovim for.
Community support and extension is what I usually care about. VS Code wins hands down there.
As an industry professional that uses both Java and C# daily, it would be nice to have a single editor instead of using both IntellIj and Rider.
My work pays for my software, so if Fleet is included in the all products pack, I'll likely give it a shot.
Fleet is far inferior compare to VSCode, less extensible, relies on closed ecosystem, and you have to pay for it? No thanks.
In the dictionary under tedium it says see engineer man
You know, the thing I like the least in this world is cheap people. You're getting a service as you said as you have never had but you don't like that it's free. This man won't be going places, that's for sure. what a cheapskate
Just use the God damn community edition in home and personal in the office 🥱
I do all my coding in a Google Doc then save it as a .txt and then to the file type needed to compile
Tell me you use a Chromebook without telling you use a Chromebook
I came in to my last Python dev job as a VSCode user while everyone else was using PyCharm. I stuck with Code for a long time because I liked the clean layout, the lightweight structure, and once you memorize bindings it can be hard to change.
However, I did eventually switch to PyCharm, and have been paying for a personal license for 3 years on top of using it at work. PyCharm (and my guess/limited experience in other JetBrains IDEs) feels like it just understands the language better than the VSCode extensions. Refactoring, test integration, issue identifying, profiling, coverage etc were all just working out of the box in PyCharm. Not to mention the extras: Smooth git integration, database exploration, remote developing and debugging... Some of these things can be done in Code, yes, but I have found they are not nearly as robust as PyCharm's implementation. Maybe they deserve a second chance?
But Fleet I am hesitant about. I have tried it on and off since it was released for testing and felt I was missing features of both VSCode and PyCharm. For example the debug/run configuration I find clunky to set up in Fleet's json file while very simple in PyCharm.
I will continue to try Fleet, but right now I don't see myself replacing VSCode for quick file editing nor PyCharm for normal dev work. Maybe if it was included in my PyCharm subscription?
Jetbrains software is worth the cost. Remember when Visual Studio used to cost $1000+ ? Subscription for these tools actually makes sense. Rather than for something like Microsoft Office.
Funny that as programmers WE expect to be paid for our work but we won't pay anyone else. If the software is good - pay for it. Not everything needs to be free esp something as fundamental as our editor.
Yeah I cannot understand the pay me but I won't pay for the tools I use to create the products I'm paid to develop.
The logic is flawed as it implies you are ripping off someone when you are using a free product. Everyone is free to do whatever he/she wants. Now back to the Fleet editor, it was implied by everyone involved as a VSCode killer, betting on a fact a free version will be actually good. Now when a free version is actually unusable, it is left to be seen how good will be the paid version and if it will be actually worth the money.
@@xidex8 No - you missed it. Not zero sum. As a professional developer use the best tool available and pay for it if the features match your needs and helps you make money. Or just use free versions. I was reacting to the implication that there is something inherently evil about commercial/paid tools. I think it's great that the commercial vendors have to compete with really good free tools. And vice versa. Personally I feel that IntelliJ has a decent pricing model while at the same time offering perfectly good 'community' editions.
I went the other direction and purchased their "Toolbox" license which gives me every Jetbrains IDE. I use four of them on a regular basis, on the three major OSes which makes it a good value for mer personally.
Years ago I tried Atom after watching one of your videos, and have been using it since. I'd love to hear about what led you to eventually use VS Code as your daily driver.
I know they're paid buy their IDEs are unbelievably incredible. 100% will be using Fleet.
PHPStorm, Rider, WebStorm is great. Fleet is poop. Not even has code folding implemented for 11months
@@davincis1 Obviously it doesn't. It's not even Beta, it's Public Preview.
Just FYI if you're a student or teacher you can get an educational licence which lets you use all of jet brain's premium stuff for free (as long as you don't use it for anything commercial).
can someone tell me if you are able to add a background image as the background in Fleet? Similarly to how you would in Android Studio or Intellij? I neeeeeed it. Lol.
will you switch to jetbrains products if they become free?
Probably
Nah, they're too heavy for my use. I'm fine with neovim, I would rather move to Emacs honestly
Hell yeah. Especially if they add Emacs evil mode plugin
I agree i really dont like monthly costs why help them develop and charge us to sell to others. Its bad enough out there with adobe etc. I really miss you just pay once and own it !
"why help them develop and charge us to sell to others "
I didn't get your point. By paying monthly you get new features, security patches and support.
I will restate @technanner's comment though, "One thing to note: If you buy 1 year of jetbrains software, you get that version forever, so even if you stop paying, you can keep using that year’s release. Sure it won’t get any more updates until you buy another year, but generally things will continue to work"
The Software vendors have to make profit of cause but every one now does it monthly. Good to hear its 1 year you own it. But it gets really old when some improve for every second and force you to pay forever.
For example take MS Word do you really need the constant changes they force on you.
For jetbrain, if you pay the service for 1 year, you get that version forever for free, then there are other benefits if you keep paying
Think I'm going to try this out today. Wonder how well the Windows version connects to WSL2.
The "becoming dependent on" argument is odd.
JetBrains silently dropped all their users in Russia and Belarus, so I would not recommend to depend on their tools and products. VS Code is guaranteed to be better than Fleet.
PHP dev doesn’t want to pay for an IDE, stick to notepad!!
JetBrains make incredible IDEs but it's kind of annoying they can't make one to compete with VS Code. Fleet is a disappointment so far, at least to me.
Fleet is simply a facade, new "look" for their existing products, e.g. internally it uses ReSharper engine for C#
My peferred payment plan would be Base Space for free but only smart mode from IDEs you have licensed
I switched over to VSCode, and a couple of things I immediately hate are:
* Its suggestion engine. It pops up all the damn time, and often it's a popup that is like 7 or 8 lines long and it NEVER GOES AWAY, unless I hit escape. Irritating as shit.
* Its Git integration is...Ugly. It works. It's just ugly. What I used to do in Atom is just open the directory that has all of my projects in subdirectories. When I would use the Git integration in Atom, it knew what the fuck I was trying to do based on the file I was editing. You do that in VSCode, you go to the Git section, and you've got this MASSIVE, ugly list of every project in that directory.
Also, errors in a file show up as changes in Git under VSCode. Which is doubly irritating, given that so far, VSCode has had numerous problems with false-positives in detecting errors.
VSCode: Atom's idiot cousin.
Yeah VSCode is very much extension dependent, i.e. GitLens for git, intellisense expansion plugins per language, etc.
Good video. It would be nice to see other screencaps other or demo in the background while you talk
I like Notepad
I like Notepad++
Nemo has everything you need, it's an IDE and Document Editor all in one. If you're really good with the dash and underscore keys it makes a fine spreadsheet and ansi graphics tool too!
i thought you were bald because of excessive hat usage
Lol, nope, I have a pretty decent head of hair. I just like/liked hats.
I use lite-xl for everything.
Why use that over Neovim?
@@encapsulatio I've stayed far away from anything Vim related. But from what I can see, lite-xl is only 1/3 of size, which actually surprises me, since I always thought Vim and related would be way smaller.
@@thecodingfoundation "I've stayed far away from anything Vim related."
Why?
@@encapsulatio the controls don't seem intuitive. I like a setup that matches what I see in other places as well. Like arrow keys for navigation in not just one editor, but also documents, spreadsheets, even when browsing.
I do know that there's plugins for a lot of the stuff and that I can rebind keys, but I think that often what very "technical" users do, is they overcomplicate their setup, and have to spend several hours setting up a new system.
lite-xl is lightweight and fast, it's also cross-platform. I download and unpack, it works the same across all systems and has the navigation expected by most other software.
I genuinely have no clue why anybody would ever pay for a closed-source vscode clone that doesn't even have a mature ecosystem of plugins, but I suppose stranger things have happened in this world. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Most of the extensions you get in VSCode are built into jetbrains IDE, and those functions 99% of the time are much better than what you can get in VS anyways, sure its paid but objectively I doubt you can find better software on the market.
It will still not replace vscode...
People around the world work really really hard for all these open source softwares and these corporates wants me to pay for literally almost the same software that is available for free...
I think there are a lot of stupid people in this world
It's literally almost not the same software btw.