130 FPS? a lot of variables can contribute to this..... barrel length. elevation, temperature....... This is why people who are in the know always confirm their own velocity
All true, but Hornady knew that this ammo was going to be way short on velocity, even from their ideal test barrels and they chose to hide it. Then when they got caught, they didn’t admit their error, just made excuses. And they were most certainly excuses, regardless of how true they are.
Hornady BS Ballistics. There's no excuse for lying on the box. This is extremely important for a lot of hunters. Rocket Science my ass. It was ripping off people for the cost of a label.
I know the box’s velocity are usually exaggerated not always but my normal 6.5 creedmoor out of a 24” barrel 140g pill with my loads is at 2840 to 2850
@Guidedhunts no. They are remington 700 footprint with a different bolt nose. Company is from Spain. I have a b14 hmr wilderness in 300 prc that easily hits at 2000m.
@@jimmlinar296 Every manufacturing company has their share of quality issues get through Q.A. Stay vigilant and respectful with Bergara customer service and they will make it right. I have a B14 and a Premier series and honestly prefer the B14. Besides the triggertech on the Premier I personally don’t think the features are worth the price difference on the Premier line.
B-14, 270 24" bbl shoots 1/2". B-14, 308 20" bbl shoots 1 inch. B-14, 300 PRC 26" bbl shoots as well as I can. Had a B-14 243, worthless, bad barrel, had tight spots in it, verified by a borescope, looking at copper deposit. B-14 6.5 CM. 22" barrel. Just OK. Traded both of them for Tikka rifles that shoot very well.
I have 2 and buying another 6.5 in creedmoor . I have a 300 prc , 6.5 prc both HMR Premier pro’s . I’m reloading my own using H1000 , Barnes and Hornaday bullets. If I do my part, I’m getting Cloverleaf to half inch groupings at 200 yards. I have shot both rifles to 1000 at local events. Both rifles performed great especially for stock store-bought rifles. Both rifles have EC tuner brakes . If you’ve never use those brakes, you’re missing out on incredible changes. That brake allows me to tune ammo to the rifle more so. Great addition. I would love to try a can but not legal in my neck of the woods . You may want to remove your action and check the bedding for finish overspray. I’ve heard that’s been a problem recently. If that’s the problem, send down the blocks and reinstall your action should improve your groupings. And as I said before.EC Tuner Brake !
I have 3 bergaras: 6.5 prc scheels addition (same rifle above). 300prc ridge, and a 6.5 prc HMR. All of them are tack drivers and shoot sub moa with factory hornaDAY eldx lol great rifles for the money imo.
Bergara are great rifles. Not sure if they are similar to the tikka's which will speed up after around 200 rounds through them. Mine definitely did. Not sure it was 130fp but it did get faster than when it was brand new.
Papa Federal is getting all the RL26 powder and other top powders so if people wanna shoot factory loads I'd suggest getting Federal stuff if it shoots well in your rifles, box speeds are accurate. Can actually get 3k fps on my 7pc with the Federal loads
If you listen to the old videos of Joyce Hornady pronounce his name it's Horn- I-day .. everyone in our country l pronounces it differently in their region.. some are wrong. It doesn't matter if you know what people are referring to.
I found similar speed differences in my kids Tikka T3X in 6.5 prc. Ron Spomer had Seth from hornady on his youtube channel and it IS because if the powder. They stuck with the more accurate option than trying to stay with speed for a replacement powder. I get he correct speeds with hand loads and the hornady ammo shoots well out of it, just slow. Get a Garmin, they are SOOOOOO easy. i had an older chrono like yours then bought a magneto speed.... if you know anyone in the market for either. Labradars new one should be like that garmin
When all other factors are considered, I am thinking that most dispersion is because of differences in MV. And it is also easy to say that Hornady ("Sorry, Randay") got their 3000 fps in 7 PRC because the built a premium rifle with expensive parts and at least a 24 inch barrel. But that is not fair. They are selling to the public and you should be able to load this into your Bergara, Fierce, Ruger, or Mossberg (if you have that in a chassis. Friends don't let friends fire Mossbergs in the factory stock. I know because I have a few Mossbergs. Always they better in a stock that has non-moving bedding.) and get a decent group. as well as putting it in your Zermatt Action and lapped Bartlein single cut barrel in a Manners stock or an of my favorites at MDT and a few other chassis makers. And so, if the average MV has changed, it should be posted on the box, at least for the lot numbers affected. If a person does not have or cannot borrow a chrono, apps like Strelok Pro can work in reverse for you. Zero at 100. Use the box ammo to calculate a solution, preferrably at a distance of more than 100 yards. If it does not hit within 1 inch of point of aim, make adjustments. So, you type in the actual MOA or MILs you had to dial to make the shot and it will calculate the MV. And then it gives you the option to use this new MV. How does a factory arrive at MV? Do they actually chrono? Or, are they using math from the spec and coming up with a theoretical MV and print that?
Its not just about knowing what your individual rifle will do, and whether or not you have a chronograph. The other big problem is with those thinking about buying a new rifle and comparing ballistics with what we have. I have a 7mm mag and am comparing ballistics of either a 6.5 PRC or 7 PRC. With the actual velocity of the 7 PRC closer to 2800 fps, that is basically no different than a 7 mag. If it was doing 3000 like the box says, it would smoke the 7 mag with energy more than 200 yards further than the 7 mag for both deer and elk! Why would I even buy a 7 PRC if its only doing 2800? Same with the 6.5 PRC. Its not doing a whole lot more than a 6.5 creedmoor if it only produces 2800 fps.
I agree, Hornady did an excellent job at marketing the 7 prc. While you are able to seat the bullet farther out than say the 7 mm rem mag, they are too close in ballistics. I mean, a 28 nosler or 7mm rum would be the next step if someone wanted to truly gain velocity and energy. Thanks for watching.
@@Guidedhunts "While you are able to seat the bullet farther out than say the 7 mm rem mag, they are too close in ballistics." They're only close in ballistics when using the slower powder which produces around 2800 fps with the 175 eldx. If they were really getting 3000 fps with the 175 eldx, the ballistics are crazy good. It extends the range on elk (1500 ft-lbs) from 700 yards for a 7mag to 900 yards for the PRC. 200 extra yards for deer as well. A factory 7PRC should be more accurate than a factory 7mag (theoretically) because of the tighter chamber, throat, etc... Of course you can custom cut a 7mag chamber, but whats the point of that if you can buy the same thing off the shelf in a PRC?
Apparently because of powder shortages companies have had to substitute powders to make a load close enough ,but they dont change the label whoch is kinda annoying..if a guy didn't have a crono,but wanted to use a ballistic calculator to make a long shot the data on the box would be wrong and they would hit low.. that's why practicing with your hunting load is critical,and you wouldn't believe the amount of people that hunt,but dont shoot and verify everything is precise and accurate at all viable ranges..i hand load and have a crono so i dont have these problems fortunately.
I will have to clock my 6.5PRCs. Two have 26" barrels. I'm not sure the length on the Tikka Roughtech T3x. But I did read a comment awhile back on a different video that a guy sold his Tikka 6.5PRC because it was so slow it was producing 6.5 Creedmoor velocities. I have found that Tikka's are definitely known for this and have now experienced it myself with factory ammo when compared to a different make or a custom build. Example - I'm at 3250fps using Superformance powder and a 130 gr bullet in a few of my 270 Wins. Shoot that same handload in any of my Tikka 270s and it's around 3050 to 3125, substantially slower. In a few of the Tikkas I've also found you can load them a bit hotter than other rifles and get the desired velocity or much closer to it. My son's Tikka 270 with a 150 Nosler AB is at 2960fps with 59.0 gr H4831SC. If I recall correctly, most sources cap that powder around 55.0 to 56.0 grains. There are no pressure signs with his load. I'm mid process of converting a Tikka T3x Hunter in 300WM to a 6.5PRC with a 24" Brux barrel. I'll clock it too with factory ammo and handloads with the 143 ELDX
I have made the mistake of buying Hornady factory ammo several times over the years for various rifles and it always was a huge disappointment. Both in accuracy and velocity. Federal and Barnes has always been far better. The only thing Hornady is good at is marketing.
@@Guidedhunts funny story actually. I was just at the range in Gillette today working on hand loads for my 308. I brought 2 federal factory loads to foul the barrel before I shot my hand loads. The very first federal round wouldn’t chamber. It was like the bras wasn’t sized properly. The second Federal round chambered easily. Just the crap you deal with if you buy factory loads instead of hand loading.🤷🏼♂️
I think (Hornaday) 😂. Should change the box velocity on the box. It’s very misleading. Even when reloading, there app gets you near the velocities. I do get that some of the recipes are for 24” barrels. Love your videos! Thank you!
i cant believe all these dummies bitching about Hornadys velocities, if your not happy how boxed ammo shoot start reloading, problem solved and your welcome!
I have the bergara b14 wilderness ridge in 300 win mag it's not picking on ammo and shoot's sub MOA with both Federal 200 grain terminal ascent and Hornady precision Hunter 200 grain
I have a 7prc in wilderness carbon took some rounds through the carbon barrel before the groups got better. I reload 168 Barnes LRX. Getting 2985 FPS.. the carbon models I’ve read needed some rds down the tube before accuracy was good. I shot cheap lead bullets first before I started turning the copper bullets.
All this talk of box velocities being off is complete rubbish in nearly all cases. Chamber tolerance alone will give fps differences of 150 fps or more leave alone bore diameters, barrel length, temp/climates……the info printed on the box is what they’ve achieved in the factory in their gun in climate controlled environment. No one should EVER take the number on the box as what is coming out of their own gun, whether it’s from hornady or any other manufacturer you choose to use. Try a whole heap of different brands and I promise you won’t find many that are doing what’s stated on the box. It’s not a new things, it’s been that way forever!!
bergara has been making barrels for years, accurate as hell and guarantee moa. and they make all cva barreles. i just bought new cva cascade long range hunter in 308 win and love it. barrel is made by bergara. also have a b14 ridge and b14 timber in 270 win. both awesom
Shooting lot number #3231804 today and I was getting 2959.5 fps from a tikka t3x (5 shots), Air temp was 75. last weekend I was getting 2857.8 with air temp at 65.
Yessir, It is pronounced HornaDEE. I've been a little puzzled why people ever said HornaDAY. Similarly, a lot if not most of Americans pronounce Lapua as Luh-POO-wuh and it is LAH-pwah. I was corrected on that one some years ago. Thanks for another enjoyable video. Always eager to watch them
@@ottokittel709 Not really, more just puzzled, as I commented. Touchy, to me, is expressing frustration or anger. Not at all on my part. Not necessary to over-interpret what you read
That's ok. I never understood why people feel the need to criticize someone over the way they pronounce something. I'm quite certain that not everyone pronounces everything the same. Im expressing frustration with people like you that worry about something as mundane as Hornaday vs Hornady. 😢
@@samwernerb5424 And I've never understood why people like you assume something is criticism when it's not. Never worried about it, just agreeing with those who mentioned how it's properly pronounced. You are correct, not everyone pronounces everything the same. But I'm also one who appreciates a correction. Might be helpful if you learned to not over interpret what you read online, would save you some frustration. Would you correct someone if they pronounced your last name "wiener" or just chalk it up as mundane?
Bergera barrels have much higher resistance than other brands. They create high pressures at lower speeds than most other barrels. All environmental factors and all aspects of a rifle have an effect and may result in a different speed than published. Also your optical chronograph can play a part. The fps number is a piece of data but not the whole equation.
24" Bergara Premier 300 PRC. Rifle shoots great. Put it in a GRS Bifrost Stock. The GRS Stock is TRASH. The fore end of the stock is crooked and the bottom metal they said would fit needed a lot of milling to make it work. After you spend money, GRS won't talk to you unless you want to spend more money. Talked a friend into buying a Bergara HMR wilderness in 300 Win Mag. That rifle shot like crap. I think we tried a dozen different hunting rounds and several boxes of match ammo. 2 moa was about the average on a rifle that should have been shooting 3/4 or less. The best groups we could get were about 1.5 MOA. Most of their rifles seem to shoot well, a percentage of them shoot like crap. Bergara will buy it back if it don't shoot.
I have a B14 Ridge in 300WM. Shoots quarter size groups with H1000 and 180gn interlocks. I also have a HMR in 6.5 PRC. That one I am struggling with to get under 1 inch groups. I also have a CVA SB in 308win. Made by Bergara. That shoots 120gn CX coppers at 2990ish into quarter size groups.
I have the same problem with my 6.5prc the hornady match I tested dose not shoot good at all turns out the velocity is all over the place when I tested it with my chronograph the nosler ammo I shot had significantly better groups but still not great eventually I'm gonna try the bergers ammo I've heard good things about them
but also to be fare some guns like perticular ammo and certain grains better. been my experiance that a mid range grain most guns like better. gotta find ammo and grain ur gun likes best
I have 3 of these in the b-14 a wood and blue steel in 300wm. it shoots 165 to a cloverleaf at 200 yds, a 6.5 creed that shoots a concistant 1inch group at 200 yds, the last one I just got is a 7prc in the new sierra an excillant gun for a $grand even. They are the best gun for the money, they run a tight chamber so reloads need to be full leignth sized. I am happy with what i have.
I have the B14 HMR and I actually really like it, group's are about 1" consistently with factory ammo, with hand loads I've gotten 1/2" groups. The only thing is the bolt feels cheap everything else is top notch for a $900 rifle
Wife shoots a Begara Premier Divide in 6.5 Creedmoor. We have tried the Hornady and Berger factory ammo, various weights and none of them shoot under 1 moa. Her old Ruger Predator shot better groups. Won't buy another. Should have been a tac driver for the money with at least one kind of factory ammo. The trigger sucks too! Adjustability is useless if you want a good light trigger. Won't recommend them or ever buy another. At best, it might be a good $800 gun.
@Guidedhunts I forget what she paid, but it was around $2400. It is a beautiful rifle, nice light weight, etc. With the technology we have today in machining, I think they should be able to easily match a custom-built rifle. Things like an integral rails should be a common place action and so on. It is not rocket science.
@@eggbert191 I can verify that. I painted a few factory Tikka polymer stocks. Shot like crap compared to how they did prior to painting. I removed all the paint in the inlet and they were right back to normal
@@JimWooddell For $2400 she should have just had a rifle built with a custom action, barrel, trigger, stock. bottom metal kit of her choosing. Regarding integral rails, a lot of people don't like them and want a simple set of Talley light weights or similar. Thus, the manufacturers accommodate the market with both types, with and w/o integral rails. I bought a new stainless Tikka T3x 300WM, a Stocky's stock, pre-fit 24" Proof barrel chambered in 7PRC, and an $8 trigger spring. Total cost for everything including gunsmith to swap barrels, less than $2000. It's one of the lightest rifles I own and is likely going on a cow elk hunt this year if I draw, and an Alaskan caribou hunt next year. Shoots factory Hornady Outfitter 160 CX ammo from half to quarter minute so far. I bought 3 cases of it on auction, all same lot number. I handload but as of right now, no need with this repeated accuracy I'm getting.
Just a little bit about the rifle. It looks like its there basic B-14 model which its not a bad rifle. I have a 7mm-08 and when running what it like the best for box ammo it will produce right about .0.6 to 0.7 MOA. That is the 139 SST if I remember correctly but for me i like running much heavier and I hand load. I've taken mine and put it in a HSM stock with the adjustable cheek riser and it has a 5 round box mag. I've also put in a trigger tech trigger adjusted down to 2 pounds i believe. I think it is the primary or the special. Makes for a nice trigger. I been running the 162ELDX and the heaviest I run is a 168ABLR. These run about 2650 but higher BC and down range energy it makes for a nice mule deer rig for distance shooting.
Pretty good velocity for the bullet weight and caliber, you don't always get the accuracy with the next to maximum velocity. According to the Sierra manual, there's only one powder that will get you to 2710 f.p.s. with a 168 grain bullet and I don't believe everyone will get there before the pressure is too high.
Could you explain a little more about the "set-up" process. I never understood how someone else can put on a scope and shoot it for the owner. How could you know if they like where the eye relief and cheek weld fall? Secondly, you did acknowledge that by shooting without the suppressor as intended the impacts won't be on. Why do it then? If you have a thread protector, a muzzle break, or a suppressor you will indeed have three different barrel harmonics so you will also have different sets of impacts. Lastly, the rifle cannot accept full responsibilty for accuracy issues (I acknowledge it shot pretty good) if the SD of the ammo fps is that wide. It has precision in the name and that should include a very low SD in the round velocity. It was not good. Thanks for doing the video. Have a good one.
The scope is leveled to the gun. The eye relief is set to me obviously cause I am setting it up. The data was collected for the turret. The owner at the time decided to not use his suppressor for the sight in. The ammo did have variation in the velocities that I was getting. This is a hunting Rifle, 1 moa at 100 yards is sufficient. We have to be able to hit 10 inch by 10 inch vitals and some times bigger (elk). If the eye relief is not correct we can adjust the scope for the owner. Not a big deal. The owner has since picked up the gun and shot it. Everything was good for him. And he decided to try his suppressor, poi was exactly the same with and without his suppressor out to 700 yards. Thanks for the comment.
A lot of variables accuracy of crono used, lands and groves relation, bore condition differences,atmospheric condition,ammunition to chamber relation. Hornady published that number as a guide or average.
I know, it's a talking point. That was kind of the point of the video was to show not to go off the box because most likely it's not going to be an accurate number. Thanks for watching.
@Guidedhunts my reason for the comment is you requested Hornady to adjust the posted in the box velocity. It's everyone's responsibility if they take it with a grain of salt or not, hope you understand.
@mannybarroga1878 I understand, but my thoughts are if they changed the powders and it is indeed slower, they should change the number on the box to reflect that. My 2 cents.
I got a 20-inch 6.5 PRC 2 years ago. I bet they have the same issues with powder as 7PRC. My old boxes of stuff (two of 143 ELDX and two 147 ELDM). My velocities then I recorded over 15 of each, and the average in my 20 inch was 2854 for ELDX and 2823 for ELDM. That is about or a little better than expected from a 20-inch barrel. I reload so I can get 2890 to 2950 depending on the powder with 142 ABLR or 143 ELDX.
Clearly, ya'll don't have a clue about a lot of the ammo on the market. If ya'll were using the chronograph with everything you shoot, you'd quickly learn what ammo is shit and what ammo is very consistent. The quality ammo today has less than 15 ES from round to round. But there's a bunch of popular ammo that just plain Sucks. Just so you understand, there's a reason for the "fliers"
Whats crazy is you dont mention the barrel length. So what barrel length is that rifle vs the test barrel length? Also, anyone getting someone else to mount/zero their rifle scope probably shouldnt be shooting more than 100 yards anyway.
The barrel is 24 inches, I did mention it in the video. The test barrel length is not specified on the box. So, who knows what it was. The only thing that could be an issue with having someone else mount their scope is eye relief. And that can be adjusted later. The data for the turret will be the same. Thanks for watching.
@@Guidedhunts Sorry, must have missed it. Yeah, they probably used a 26 but would have to ask. Having a velocity on the box without at least having the test barrel length is worthless, and there will be differences in individual barrels of the same length as well. Variable stacking...Eye relieve is a big one, and loosening up the scope rings to move the scope back or forward will require releveling with a plumb bob or some other method, and may require moving the lower half of the rings as well. Might as well do it all. If a shooter is not willing/does not know how to set up their own scope or take the time to do so, they are probably not shooting enough to make long shots in the first place.
Variances in bullet diameter between different lots of bullets along with variances in land and groove diameters in the barrels and differences in the chambering reamer used contribute a lot to velocity. They have to make ammo that is guaranteed safe in tens of thousands of different rifles. There’s a lot of factors that come into play.
In the video, I didn't click it. But when I got up to the range, I put everything in again and double-checked it was there for the range card. Thanks for watching.
🤡 Stop complaining about the velocity ! Everyone knows why this is going on. Another thing I'm sick of is hearing how much stuff costs, especially from people who hunt with a house like that and go around paying crazy money for hunts all around the country and world. If you can't afford to get everything you need to get dead on with your rifle, you need to sell it 💯. By now, every shooting person should have some kind of chronograph, especially if you hunt or reload ammo.
@Guidedhunts I'm just fine. It's people who don't know the industry they work in and what's going on with it. How you haven't heard about that manufacturer is pathetic. Sitting around and talking to you is probably not very interesting. On top of that, you can't read and pronounce what you read.
Clearly you seem to know it all but you seem reluctant to share your knowledge. People get better at what they do by learning from "know it alls". Personally I don't think you know sh*t, you probably wear a flat brim hat and shoot a creedmoor.
The self-proclaimed "experts" with all the beeping flashing gadgets with their thousand pages of numbers and figures sobbing and handwringing about a MEANINGLESS "non-matching" nit-picked FPS number whilst BARREL LENGTH miraculously and mysteriously not taken into account or even fkn mentioned.... Hilarious!
130 FPS? a lot of variables can contribute to this..... barrel length. elevation, temperature....... This is why people who are in the know always confirm their own velocity
Hornady has already admitted the powder shortage has forced them to use different powders for some ammo. The 7 PRC is one of them.
All true, but Hornady knew that this ammo was going to be way short on velocity, even from their ideal test barrels and they chose to hide it. Then when they got caught, they didn’t admit their error, just made excuses. And they were most certainly excuses, regardless of how true they are.
Hornady BS Ballistics. There's no excuse for lying on the box. This is extremely important for a lot of hunters. Rocket Science my ass. It was ripping off people for the cost of a label.
Hornady can't get the powders they need for box speeds. They should temporarily sticker the boxes with current speed data😮
I know the box’s velocity are usually exaggerated not always but my normal 6.5 creedmoor out of a 24” barrel 140g pill with my loads is at 2840 to 2850
Nobody should ever go off the box for Velocity, every barrel can be different and a barrel can change over its lifespan.
Bergara has a sub moa guarantee with match ammo. They have been producing excellent barrels for years. Far better than remington rifles
Ok, thanks for the info. Is the bergara a winchester model 70 clone?
@Guidedhunts no. They are remington 700 footprint with a different bolt nose. Company is from Spain. I have a b14 hmr wilderness in 300 prc that easily hits at 2000m.
That's because they hired Ed Shilen to teach them how to make quality button rifled barrels
Tell that to my rifle that’s been back for weak ejection and scratched to hell brass and came back no better lol
@@jimmlinar296 Every manufacturing company has their share of quality issues get through Q.A. Stay vigilant and respectful with Bergara customer service and they will make it right. I have a B14 and a Premier series and honestly prefer the B14. Besides the triggertech on the Premier I personally don’t think the features are worth the price difference on the Premier line.
B-14, 270 24" bbl shoots 1/2".
B-14, 308 20" bbl shoots 1 inch.
B-14, 300 PRC 26" bbl shoots as well as I can. Had a B-14 243, worthless, bad barrel, had tight spots in it, verified by a borescope, looking at copper deposit. B-14 6.5 CM. 22" barrel. Just OK. Traded both of them for Tikka rifles that shoot very well.
Thanks for sharing. 👍
I shot a bergara b14 ridge in 270win. It’s an absolute tack driver. Tends to like heavy for caliber rounds but shots .4 inch groups pretty regularly
I have 2 and buying another 6.5 in creedmoor . I have a 300 prc , 6.5 prc both HMR Premier pro’s . I’m reloading my own using H1000 , Barnes and Hornaday bullets. If I do my part, I’m getting Cloverleaf to half inch groupings at 200 yards. I have shot both rifles to 1000 at local events. Both rifles performed great especially for stock store-bought rifles. Both rifles have EC tuner brakes . If you’ve never use those brakes, you’re missing out on incredible changes. That brake allows me to tune ammo to the rifle more so. Great addition. I would love to try a can but not legal in my neck of the woods . You may want to remove your action and check the bedding for finish overspray. I’ve heard that’s been a problem recently. If that’s the problem, send down the blocks and reinstall your action should improve your groupings. And as I said before.EC Tuner Brake !
Thanks for the comment, I do have a ec tuner brake and did a video on it check it out thanks for watching. 👍
I have 3 bergaras: 6.5 prc scheels addition (same rifle above). 300prc ridge, and a 6.5 prc HMR. All of them are tack drivers and shoot sub moa with factory hornaDAY eldx lol great rifles for the money imo.
Thanks for the feedback
Bergara are great rifles. Not sure if they are similar to the tikka's which will speed up after around 200 rounds through them. Mine definitely did. Not sure it was 130fp but it did get faster than when it was brand new.
Thanks for watching.
Papa Federal is getting all the RL26 powder and other top powders so if people wanna shoot factory loads I'd suggest getting Federal stuff if it shoots well in your rifles, box speeds are accurate. Can actually get 3k fps on my 7pc with the Federal loads
Thanks for the comment.
If you listen to the old videos of Joyce Hornady pronounce his name it's Horn- I-day .. everyone in our country l pronounces it differently in their region.. some are wrong. It doesn't matter if you know what people are referring to.
I agree
Bergara HMR in 6.5 creedmoor. Great shooter but it's heavy for a hunting rifle
Thanks for the info. 👍
I found similar speed differences in my kids Tikka T3X in 6.5 prc. Ron Spomer had Seth from hornady on his youtube channel and it IS because if the powder. They stuck with the more accurate option than trying to stay with speed for a replacement powder. I get he correct speeds with hand loads and the hornady ammo shoots well out of it, just slow. Get a Garmin, they are SOOOOOO easy. i had an older chrono like yours then bought a magneto speed.... if you know anyone in the market for either. Labradars new one should be like that garmin
Thanks for the info. 👍
When all other factors are considered, I am thinking that most dispersion is because of differences in MV. And it is also easy to say that Hornady ("Sorry, Randay") got their 3000 fps in 7 PRC because the built a premium rifle with expensive parts and at least a 24 inch barrel.
But that is not fair. They are selling to the public and you should be able to load this into your Bergara, Fierce, Ruger, or Mossberg (if you have that in a chassis. Friends don't let friends fire Mossbergs in the factory stock. I know because I have a few Mossbergs. Always they better in a stock that has non-moving bedding.) and get a decent group. as well as putting it in your Zermatt Action and lapped Bartlein single cut barrel in a Manners stock or an of my favorites at MDT and a few other chassis makers.
And so, if the average MV has changed, it should be posted on the box, at least for the lot numbers affected. If a person does not have or cannot borrow a chrono, apps like Strelok Pro can work in reverse for you. Zero at 100. Use the box ammo to calculate a solution, preferrably at a distance of more than 100 yards. If it does not hit within 1 inch of point of aim, make adjustments. So, you type in the actual MOA or MILs you had to dial to make the shot and it will calculate the MV. And then it gives you the option to use this new MV.
How does a factory arrive at MV? Do they actually chrono? Or, are they using math from the spec and coming up with a theoretical MV and print that?
Its not just about knowing what your individual rifle will do, and whether or not you have a chronograph. The other big problem is with those thinking about buying a new rifle and comparing ballistics with what we have. I have a 7mm mag and am comparing ballistics of either a 6.5 PRC or 7 PRC. With the actual velocity of the 7 PRC closer to 2800 fps, that is basically no different than a 7 mag. If it was doing 3000 like the box says, it would smoke the 7 mag with energy more than 200 yards further than the 7 mag for both deer and elk! Why would I even buy a 7 PRC if its only doing 2800? Same with the 6.5 PRC. Its not doing a whole lot more than a 6.5 creedmoor if it only produces 2800 fps.
I agree, Hornady did an excellent job at marketing the 7 prc. While you are able to seat the bullet farther out than say the 7 mm rem mag, they are too close in ballistics. I mean, a 28 nosler or 7mm rum would be the next step if someone wanted to truly gain velocity and energy. Thanks for watching.
@@Guidedhunts "While you are able to seat the bullet farther out than say the 7 mm rem mag, they are too close in ballistics." They're only close in ballistics when using the slower powder which produces around 2800 fps with the 175 eldx. If they were really getting 3000 fps with the 175 eldx, the ballistics are crazy good. It extends the range on elk (1500 ft-lbs) from 700 yards for a 7mag to 900 yards for the PRC. 200 extra yards for deer as well. A factory 7PRC should be more accurate than a factory 7mag (theoretically) because of the tighter chamber, throat, etc... Of course you can custom cut a 7mag chamber, but whats the point of that if you can buy the same thing off the shelf in a PRC?
Apparently because of powder shortages companies have had to substitute powders to make a load close enough ,but they dont change the label whoch is kinda annoying..if a guy didn't have a crono,but wanted to use a ballistic calculator to make a long shot the data on the box would be wrong and they would hit low.. that's why practicing with your hunting load is critical,and you wouldn't believe the amount of people that hunt,but dont shoot and verify everything is precise and accurate at all viable ranges..i hand load and have a crono so i dont have these problems fortunately.
True, thanks for watching.
Thanks for the awesome content.. I appreciate learning anything I can from everyone who knows the tricks of the trade
I get 2990 avg with the 143 eldx out of my 24" 6.5 prc.
Wow, that's good that you're getting better than I was. That's closer to the box numbers.
I will have to clock my 6.5PRCs. Two have 26" barrels. I'm not sure the length on the Tikka Roughtech T3x. But I did read a comment awhile back on a different video that a guy sold his Tikka 6.5PRC because it was so slow it was producing 6.5 Creedmoor velocities. I have found that Tikka's are definitely known for this and have now experienced it myself with factory ammo when compared to a different make or a custom build. Example - I'm at 3250fps using Superformance powder and a 130 gr bullet in a few of my 270 Wins. Shoot that same handload in any of my Tikka 270s and it's around 3050 to 3125, substantially slower. In a few of the Tikkas I've also found you can load them a bit hotter than other rifles and get the desired velocity or much closer to it. My son's Tikka 270 with a 150 Nosler AB is at 2960fps with 59.0 gr H4831SC. If I recall correctly, most sources cap that powder around 55.0 to 56.0 grains. There are no pressure signs with his load.
I'm mid process of converting a Tikka T3x Hunter in 300WM to a 6.5PRC with a 24" Brux barrel. I'll clock it too with factory ammo and handloads with the 143 ELDX
I have made the mistake of buying Hornady factory ammo several times over the years for various rifles and it always was a huge disappointment. Both in accuracy and velocity. Federal and Barnes has always been far better. The only thing Hornady is good at is marketing.
On one of my videos, the federal ammo I was using was more consistent on velocity and held a better group than Hornady, at least in that gun it did.
@@Guidedhunts funny story actually. I was just at the range in Gillette today working on hand loads for my 308. I brought 2 federal factory loads to foul the barrel before I shot my hand loads. The very first federal round wouldn’t chamber. It was like the bras wasn’t sized properly. The second Federal round chambered easily. Just the crap you deal with if you buy factory loads instead of hand loading.🤷🏼♂️
Hornaday .. has issues.
My 300wsm accubond 180 g is getting
2994 2993 and 3000 .Browning xbolt Hunter
I think (Hornaday) 😂. Should change the box velocity on the box. It’s very misleading. Even when reloading, there app gets you near the velocities. I do get that some of the recipes are for 24” barrels. Love your videos! Thank you!
Appreciate you watching and the feedback.
shouldnt be relying on the box for you velocities anyway
i cant believe all these dummies bitching about Hornadys velocities, if your not happy how boxed ammo shoot start reloading, problem solved and your welcome!
I have the bergara b14 wilderness ridge in 300 win mag it's not picking on ammo and shoot's sub MOA with both Federal 200 grain terminal ascent and Hornady precision Hunter 200 grain
I shoot a squared crest 6.5 Creed, shoots very well now with 147 ELDMz. Definitely didn't like velocity up too high when we doing load development.
I have a 7prc in wilderness carbon took some rounds through the carbon barrel before the groups got better. I reload 168 Barnes LRX. Getting 2985 FPS.. the carbon models I’ve read needed some rds down the tube before accuracy was good. I shot cheap lead bullets first before I started turning the copper bullets.
Thanks for the info.
I’ve got a Bergara Wilderness HMR in 300 PRC shooting .26 to .38 inch groups at 100 yards
What spotting scope are you running?
Kowa tsn 884
Lots of buzz going around about that powder. 7prc guys aren’t really happy about it
Yea, I'm kinda shocked that Hornady wouldn't at least change the number on the box.
Hornady has already addressed this. More recent production is slower due to powder shortage issues. Easily solved if you're a reloader
All this talk of box velocities being off is complete rubbish in nearly all cases. Chamber tolerance alone will give fps differences of 150 fps or more leave alone bore diameters, barrel length, temp/climates……the info printed on the box is what they’ve achieved in the factory in their gun in climate controlled environment. No one should EVER take the number on the box as what is coming out of their own gun, whether it’s from hornady or any other manufacturer you choose to use. Try a whole heap of different brands and I promise you won’t find many that are doing what’s stated on the box. It’s not a new things, it’s been that way forever!!
I like you already; you can read Hornady.
Thanks for watching
i think thats happening with alot of brands lately. most are off from what box of ammo says. kinda messes up ballistic calculator
bergara has been making barrels for years, accurate as hell and guarantee moa. and they make all cva barreles. i just bought new cva cascade long range hunter in 308 win and love it. barrel is made by bergara. also have a b14 ridge and b14 timber in 270 win. both awesom
Shooting lot number #3231804 today and I was getting 2959.5 fps from a tikka t3x (5 shots), Air temp was 75. last weekend I was getting 2857.8 with air temp at 65.
Yessir, It is pronounced HornaDEE. I've been a little puzzled why people ever said HornaDAY. Similarly, a lot if not most of Americans pronounce Lapua as Luh-POO-wuh and it is LAH-pwah. I was corrected on that one some years ago. Thanks for another enjoyable video. Always eager to watch them
Thanks for tuning in. 👍
touchy touchy, don't be so critical. your potatoes are another persons potatoes! good content young man!
@@ottokittel709 Not really, more just puzzled, as I commented. Touchy, to me, is expressing frustration or anger. Not at all on my part. Not necessary to over-interpret what you read
That's ok. I never understood why people feel the need to criticize someone over the way they pronounce something. I'm quite certain that not everyone pronounces everything the same. Im expressing frustration with people like you that worry about something as mundane as Hornaday vs Hornady. 😢
@@samwernerb5424 And I've never understood why people like you assume something is criticism when it's not. Never worried about it, just agreeing with those who mentioned how it's properly pronounced. You are correct, not everyone pronounces everything the same. But I'm also one who appreciates a correction. Might be helpful if you learned to not over interpret what you read online, would save you some frustration. Would you correct someone if they pronounced your last name "wiener" or just chalk it up as mundane?
I totally agree with you buddy
Amunishin company's should have to post the length of the test barrels it's less than honest. How ever altitude and humidity make a difference
Bergera barrels have much higher resistance than other brands. They create high pressures at lower speeds than most other barrels. All environmental factors and all aspects of a rifle have an effect and may result in a different speed than published. Also your optical chronograph can play a part. The fps number is a piece of data but not the whole equation.
If the stock is free floated try not to let the front bag touch the barrel when shooting.
Who cares what way you pronounce it, if you know what they person means.
24" Bergara Premier 300 PRC. Rifle shoots great. Put it in a GRS Bifrost Stock. The GRS Stock is TRASH. The fore end of the stock is crooked and the bottom metal they said would fit needed a lot of milling to make it work. After you spend money, GRS won't talk to you unless you want to spend more money.
Talked a friend into buying a Bergara HMR wilderness in 300 Win Mag. That rifle shot like crap. I think we tried a dozen different hunting rounds and several boxes of match ammo. 2 moa was about the average on a rifle that should have been shooting 3/4 or less. The best groups we could get were about 1.5 MOA. Most of their rifles seem to shoot well, a percentage of them shoot like crap. Bergara will buy it back if it don't shoot.
That's good to know. I guess there will always be some that make it out of the factory and shouldn't. Thanks for watching.
I have a B14 Ridge in 300WM. Shoots quarter size groups with H1000 and 180gn interlocks. I also have a HMR in 6.5 PRC. That one I am struggling with to get under 1 inch groups.
I also have a CVA SB in 308win. Made by Bergara. That shoots 120gn CX coppers at 2990ish into quarter size groups.
I have the same problem with my 6.5prc the hornady match I tested dose not shoot good at all turns out the velocity is all over the place when I tested it with my chronograph the nosler ammo I shot had significantly better groups but still not great eventually I'm gonna try the bergers ammo I've heard good things about them
It is due to the changing of powder used from previous loadings
but also to be fare some guns like perticular ammo and certain grains better. been my experiance that a mid range grain most guns like better. gotta find ammo and grain ur gun likes best
Idk if you have your own 6.5 PRC but it would have been cool to see you try the velocity on it for comparison.
I wish I did have one. I would have compared.
I have 3 of these in the b-14 a wood and blue steel in 300wm. it shoots 165 to a cloverleaf at 200 yds, a 6.5 creed that shoots a concistant 1inch group at 200 yds, the last one I just got is a 7prc in the new sierra an excillant gun for a $grand even. They are the best gun for the money, they run a tight chamber so reloads need to be full leignth sized. I am happy with what i have.
Thanks for the information. It will help someone decide on a bergara. 👍
Begara been making rifle and muzzleloader bbls a long tme
I have the B14 HMR and I actually really like it, group's are about 1" consistently with factory ammo, with hand loads I've gotten 1/2" groups. The only thing is the bolt feels cheap everything else is top notch for a $900 rifle
Thanks for the info.
Wife shoots a Begara Premier Divide in 6.5 Creedmoor. We have tried the Hornady and Berger factory ammo, various weights and none of them shoot under 1 moa. Her old Ruger Predator shot better groups. Won't buy another. Should have been a tac driver for the money with at least one kind of factory ammo. The trigger sucks too! Adjustability is useless if you want a good light trigger. Won't recommend them or ever buy another. At best, it might be a good $800 gun.
Thanks for the feedback. It's always good to hear what's actually going on out there with these rifles.
Remove the overspray paint inside the stock where the pillars meet the action. This is very well known
@Guidedhunts I forget what she paid, but it was around $2400. It is a beautiful rifle, nice light weight, etc. With the technology we have today in machining, I think they should be able to easily match a custom-built rifle. Things like an integral rails should be a common place action and so on. It is not rocket science.
@@eggbert191 I can verify that. I painted a few factory Tikka polymer stocks. Shot like crap compared to how they did prior to painting. I removed all the paint in the inlet and they were right back to normal
@@JimWooddell For $2400 she should have just had a rifle built with a custom action, barrel, trigger, stock. bottom metal kit of her choosing. Regarding integral rails, a lot of people don't like them and want a simple set of Talley light weights or similar. Thus, the manufacturers accommodate the market with both types, with and w/o integral rails.
I bought a new stainless Tikka T3x 300WM, a Stocky's stock, pre-fit 24" Proof barrel chambered in 7PRC, and an $8 trigger spring. Total cost for everything including gunsmith to swap barrels, less than $2000. It's one of the lightest rifles I own and is likely going on a cow elk hunt this year if I draw, and an Alaskan caribou hunt next year. Shoots factory Hornady Outfitter 160 CX ammo from half to quarter minute so far. I bought 3 cases of it on auction, all same lot number. I handload but as of right now, no need with this repeated accuracy I'm getting.
Just a little bit about the rifle. It looks like its there basic B-14 model which its not a bad rifle. I have a 7mm-08 and when running what it like the best for box ammo it will produce right about .0.6 to 0.7 MOA. That is the 139 SST if I remember correctly but for me i like running much heavier and I hand load. I've taken mine and put it in a HSM stock with the adjustable cheek riser and it has a 5 round box mag. I've also put in a trigger tech trigger adjusted down to 2 pounds i believe. I think it is the primary or the special. Makes for a nice trigger. I been running the 162ELDX and the heaviest I run is a 168ABLR. These run about 2650 but higher BC and down range energy it makes for a nice mule deer rig for distance shooting.
Thanks for the information.
Pretty good velocity for the bullet weight and caliber, you don't always get the accuracy with the next to maximum velocity. According to the Sierra manual, there's only one powder that will get you to 2710 f.p.s. with a 168 grain bullet and I don't believe everyone will get there before the pressure is too high.
Could you explain a little more about the "set-up" process. I never understood how someone else can put on a scope and shoot it for the owner. How could you know if they like where the eye relief and cheek weld fall? Secondly, you did acknowledge that by shooting without the suppressor as intended the impacts won't be on. Why do it then? If you have a thread protector, a muzzle break, or a suppressor you will indeed have three different barrel harmonics so you will also have different sets of impacts. Lastly, the rifle cannot accept full responsibilty for accuracy issues (I acknowledge it shot pretty good) if the SD of the ammo fps is that wide. It has precision in the name and that should include a very low SD in the round velocity. It was not good. Thanks for doing the video. Have a good one.
The scope is leveled to the gun. The eye relief is set to me obviously cause I am setting it up. The data was collected for the turret. The owner at the time decided to not use his suppressor for the sight in. The ammo did have variation in the velocities that I was getting. This is a hunting Rifle, 1 moa at 100 yards is sufficient. We have to be able to hit 10 inch by 10 inch vitals and some times bigger (elk). If the eye relief is not correct we can adjust the scope for the owner. Not a big deal. The owner has since picked up the gun and shot it. Everything was good for him. And he decided to try his suppressor, poi was exactly the same with and without his suppressor out to 700 yards. Thanks for the comment.
My 6.5 prc out of the weatherby vanguard was 2940 in wyoming as well.
Thanks for the info. 👍
Mine Shoots great with Hornady , When using hand loads it can print but holes. Consistently it will do it.
Awesome
Who rests their barrel on a bag while trying to zero a rifle? This is why I don’t let gun store commandos touch my stuff.
The stock was on the bag, the barrel had no pressure on it from the bag.
Bergara founded in 1952 in Spain
My son in law has the B-14 in the 30-06 he shoots norma ammo in 150 factory and gets 1/5 inch groups nice trigger on the gun
Thanks for the info. 👍
You are welcome sir great video
A lot of variables accuracy of crono used, lands and groves relation, bore condition differences,atmospheric condition,ammunition to chamber relation. Hornady published that number as a guide or average.
I know, it's a talking point. That was kind of the point of the video was to show not to go off the box because most likely it's not going to be an accurate number. Thanks for watching.
@Guidedhunts my reason for the comment is you requested Hornady to adjust the posted in the box velocity. It's everyone's responsibility if they take it with a grain of salt or not, hope you understand.
@mannybarroga1878 I understand, but my thoughts are if they changed the powders and it is indeed slower, they should change the number on the box to reflect that. My 2 cents.
I got a 20-inch 6.5 PRC 2 years ago. I bet they have the same issues with powder as 7PRC. My old boxes of stuff (two of 143 ELDX and two 147 ELDM). My velocities then I recorded over 15 of each, and the average in my 20 inch was 2854 for ELDX and 2823 for ELDM. That is about or a little better than expected from a 20-inch barrel. I reload so I can get 2890 to 2950 depending on the powder with 142 ABLR or 143 ELDX.
Clearly, ya'll don't have a clue about a lot of the ammo on the market.
If ya'll were using the chronograph with everything you shoot, you'd quickly learn what ammo is shit and what ammo is very consistent.
The quality ammo today has less than 15 ES from round to round.
But there's a bunch of popular ammo that just plain Sucks.
Just so you understand, there's a reason for the "fliers"
Whats crazy is you dont mention the barrel length. So what barrel length is that rifle vs the test barrel length? Also, anyone getting someone else to mount/zero their rifle scope probably shouldnt be shooting more than 100 yards anyway.
The barrel is 24 inches, I did mention it in the video. The test barrel length is not specified on the box. So, who knows what it was. The only thing that could be an issue with having someone else mount their scope is eye relief. And that can be adjusted later. The data for the turret will be the same. Thanks for watching.
@@Guidedhunts Sorry, must have missed it. Yeah, they probably used a 26 but would have to ask. Having a velocity on the box without at least having the test barrel length is worthless, and there will be differences in individual barrels of the same length as well. Variable stacking...Eye relieve is a big one, and loosening up the scope rings to move the scope back or forward will require releveling with a plumb bob or some other method, and may require moving the lower half of the rings as well. Might as well do it all. If a shooter is not willing/does not know how to set up their own scope or take the time to do so, they are probably not shooting enough to make long shots in the first place.
RanDay! 😂😂
I bet if you used 3 different Chronograph you would get 3 different speeds . All made in China
Competition electronics the one i am using in the video, is made in USA. Thanks for watching.
@@Guidedhunts i didn't watch i read the title
Variances in bullet diameter between different lots of bullets along with variances in land and groove diameters in the barrels and differences in the chambering reamer used contribute a lot to velocity. They have to make ammo that is guaranteed safe in tens of thousands of different rifles. There’s a lot of factors that come into play.
Thanks for sharing, great video again
Glad you enjoyed it.
Nice job!
Thanks for the video
Thanks Brian, it should work for your hunters.
Hmr b14 300 prc 1/2 in at a 100 hit 1180 first shot I love mine tack driver
Thanks for sharing. 👍
@@Guidedhunts your right they are not better then tikka I’m a fan boy to got 300wm and 17hmr tikka is always #1
@wackandstack6491 Hard to beat a tikka. 👍
@@Guidedhunts keep the videos come really like that one video u did with best hunting rifle most can afford great channel
You didn't select the G7 button at the top (.315), so everything is off.
In the video, I didn't click it. But when I got up to the range, I put everything in again and double-checked it was there for the range card. Thanks for watching.
I do. They are great. I also love the tika.
Thanks for watching.
I think bergara and tikka are the best value rifles out the box
Randay!🤣🤣🤣
Lol
Is your barrel meeting the same spec that was used by Hornady
Good question, doesn't say what they used. Thanks for watching.
🤡
Stop complaining about the velocity !
Everyone knows why this is going on.
Another thing I'm sick of is hearing how much stuff costs, especially from people who hunt with a house like that and go around paying crazy money for hunts all around the country and world.
If you can't afford to get everything you need to get dead on with your rifle, you need to sell it 💯.
By now, every shooting person should have some kind of chronograph, especially if you hunt or reload ammo.
You seem like a happy person. Thanks for watching. 👌
@Guidedhunts
I'm just fine.
It's people who don't know the industry they work in and what's going on with it.
How you haven't heard about that manufacturer is pathetic.
Sitting around and talking to you is probably not very interesting.
On top of that, you can't read and pronounce what you read.
@MTCKIE68 Is this where you want to be when Jesus comes back... making fun of little ol Eric?
Clearly you seem to know it all but you seem reluctant to share your knowledge. People get better at what they do by learning from "know it alls". Personally I don't think you know sh*t, you probably wear a flat brim hat and shoot a creedmoor.
Dude needs to chill
The self-proclaimed "experts" with all the beeping flashing gadgets with their thousand pages of numbers and figures sobbing and handwringing about a MEANINGLESS
"non-matching" nit-picked FPS number whilst BARREL LENGTH miraculously and mysteriously not taken into account or even fkn mentioned.... Hilarious!