For a non- contrast surface treatment, I have used some model acrylics mixed with a dash of Liquitex silver acrylic ink, and this gave me some good effects when applied with an airbrush.
I do the one option you didn’t mention. I do the under painting with metallics and then apply a contrast over it. Black over a silver, a brown over golds and bronzes. It works out really well.
I think you would make your life a lot easier on yourself if you did your underpainting with with a dark silver base and bright silver highlight, instead of trying to make it work over a greyscale. It’s the exact same amount of work, and you tried with other colors, but you really need something that is way more forgiving when working with matallic paint where you thinned out the pigments to make them flow more.
Marco Frisoni makes a metallic 'contrast' style paint using inks, Vallejo Metal Color, and medium for translucency. Vallejo Metal Color (any of the silvers work) is the key really, it has so much very fine metal pigment that it still looks metallic even when thinned, and is already very thin as it's intended for airbrushing. However, this style of paint is always going to be conceptually very difficult to get working well - metallic pigments are completely opaque, and the metallic effect is achieved when they settle on the surface. So if you don't have enough in the paint it will just look like glitter dispersed in a paint medium, but too much and it won't allow any underpainting to show through.
I prefer to use contrast paints as a filter over metallics. IMHO this is a great way to create different colour metallics. Downside is that you lose a bit of the sheen the same way you have when applying washes to the metallic parts (while I prefer that, other don't have to), and can also cause coffee stain if you use the brush.
Fun experiment but i think theres a much better method. Use metallics as the undercoat for slap chop. Any color over silver will make a different color metallic. Blue grey for steel, yellow brown for gold, red brown for copper. The reason this works way better is because we DONT want our metallic pigment in the recesses, it completely ruins the metallic illusion. In short, prime black or base coat black -> dry brush/highlight silver -> slap chop speed paint -> highlight with silver mixed with small amount of speed paint for Color. This technique works best with Vallejo metal color silver or aluminum.
My favorite way to paint metallics is quite simple, black primer followed by a vallejo liquid silver zenithal highlight, then apply contrast/speedpaint. Depending on how much metallic I want to have, I'll mix in the appropriate medium for thinner coats and adjust with a second layer if needed.
I was using the contrast painting method YEARS before GW brought out contrast paint. I was using Army Painter inks and Secret Weapon Washes...for metallics, I used either silver or chain mail primer then covered with ink or wash cut with a tiny amount of flow improver (I rarely thin paints, inks, or washes with water. Even contrast or speedpaint)
Sadly, contrast paints and metallic pigment are just at odds with each other. Contrast paint is designed to leave more pigment in the recesses and less on raised edges, which is the exact opposite of where you want metallic pigment to go. This is why you kept getting that glittery look, because metallics need near total coverage to work and the contrast mediums were making sure that could only happen in the shadows.
Couple of thoughts on a very thought provoking video. 1 - The addition of some flow improver may help the mixture flow into the recesses in a more repeatable way. 2 - I was wondering if a dark reddish brown base with bright red zenithal highlight under the contrast mix might help sell the gold effect. Red is often used under gold leaf to help sell the effect and the dark red-brown would give a warm shadow.
I think this would have gone better if you had used actual good metallic paints. Gehenna Gold doesn't even look like gold when undiluted! Why aren't you trying this with e.g. Vallejo Metal Colour, or Greenstuff World metallic pigments? If this was something I was interested in doing, I would try something like Contrast/Speedpaint medium + GSW ancient gold pigment + sepia ink. And yeah, like another commenter said, underpaint with silver, we all know metallics on top of white looks like crap.
so far my personal go to for metallics is using the Airbrush. it may sound crazy but I'm painting a Grey Knights Army and I've managed to not only get the silver blue hue known to them but also depending on how the light hits my models they look Metallic Blue, metallic silver/blue or pure silver. I've used for them Turbo Dork's turboshift wavelength as the base color then deciding on the light source, go with Silver fox, and then mix of silver fox and tin star for the final highlights. it might not be a "fast" technique but when painting large models or a few in one hit it works.
Personally I don't think that works, because if your underpaint is white-ish or a cream colour as its brightest colour, that can look weird ir you're going for some metallic colour like iron. It just doesn't look realistic with a less metallic, cream-colured edge to it. Personally I like the new washes from GW and their contrast paints for this purpose, just apply the dark/light metallic base coat of choice and stain/tint it with the wanted colour. The new washes behave more like contrast paints and does less coffee staining and pools slightly better, and it doesn't tint/dulls/darken the surfaces as much as the old formulas did. But this is all about application and the look you're after, and the time spent doing it! :) But still a cool and fun experiment to do! :)
I think that an undercoat of metallic paint with a shade is the way to go. Using something like Forgeworld's Marine Juice deals with the problem of weird pooling/coffee staining, and the Marine Juice is just easier to make at home than a DIY metallic contrast.
I puddy and airbrush. For fine lines and things, I'll use metallic gel pens. Folk art or whatever craft brand makes this mica pigmented paints that I've added to contrasts that do decently for applications like this. I've thought about getting mica and playing with various flow aids to see if I can concoct something, but figure the chemists will figure it out some day.
I'm going to be controversial, honestly, I don't do speed painting at all and I don't really want to hurry my process in painting. I'm an artist first and foremost, and came to miniature painting when I became interested in d&d in early high school. I can paint small/medium miniatures at a quick enough rate (one to three days w/ free time) that I don't really feel the desired need to hurry it up even more. Like maybe I'll change my opinion when I dive full force in painting my ratfolk but eh, I think folks' opinions on contrast paint depend on whether or not you find a lot of enjoyment in the painting process.
With a different undercoat, I could see the metallic paint ideas here being useful. But, I wouldn't black and grey showing through. And, that only really works if we want that undertone for the whole mini. Personally, I'm in the group that tends to paint with a high quality silver and add the depth either with washes or a transparent paint. Yes, it tones down the metallic slightly by having another layer on top, but at least it doesn't look like glitter. I do find the metallic Speed paints to be mostly useless. I treat them as a cheap metallic that can be slapped on to lower quality minis.
My favourite cheaty-pete technique for metalics is to include something like Liquitex's bright silver ink blended with other inks for the right colours and tones
Have you considered mixing You're one coat base color paint into a higher metallic pigment paint like Vallejo metal color or maybe scale 75 or monument hobbies? Like a paint that's not contrast base.
Tbh i think that's just overcomplicating You can use the metallic with a filter of the color you want Or you can even use the metallic 'wash over metallic' recipe. Just paying attention to pooling Or you can do another good and fast option, that is metallic base and pin washing to avoid coffee staining
Personally what I like to do is go for a Black prime and then dry brush the metallic color I want and use contrast paints to get the hue of color I want. Then if I feel like being extra I do a matte varnish and use an oil wash, rub most of it off and then do a VERY light dry brush with a silver metallic paint to finish the effect but I'm not going to do that for every miniature with metal on it.
So speed paint 2.0 metallic lines isn't meant or advertised by army painter to be like the others that give you highlights and shadows. The metallic line in the speed paints is meant to cover in one coat and that's all.
We are never going to get a perfect metal speed paint. Metal flakes are opaque, and thinking the paint out just adds medium amd separates the flakes. The first model is a classic example. The metal flakes are are also heavier, so they will sink into the recesses more than paint and medium will. We can get close, but it's impossible to make the metal flakes transparent, so we are only going to get so far, unfortunately.
Great experiment. You could go back in with a dry brush of a bright gold (or bright silver) metallic to punch up the metallic look while keeping the speedpaint concoction in the recessed areas. Just like you might do with a standard metallic/wash approach.
So you lazily gave the gold a wash to give your method more merit? Literally could aboded that pooling by touching it with a dry brush. But content right?
I think regular metallics with a oil wash is the goto, more control taking off what you don't want with a oil wash and no coffee staining. Plus the wash really sinks into things. .
Thank you for the video! I have the Army Painter metallic set and I would agree that it doesn't work as well as the normal speedpaints or Contrast paints. There is some difference in the recesses but not enough. I think I might try mixing a light and dark metallic speed paint to see if that helps.
I think the metallics work well for metallic details - a gun, a sword, jewelry, badges, and so on. But maybe not as well as one would like for armor and stuff like that.
Great video. I have also extensively experimented with creating my own metallic contrast paints. I have used Metallic Paints with Flow Improver which gave mixed results. I also have used Metallic Acrylic inks and Flow Medium (a mixture of Acrylic Medium and Flow Improver) which gave good results. My best results came from a Pearlescent Medium as a base (the brand is a trade secret as it’s hard to get), Metallic and Shimmer Inks and Flow Improver. Metallic Mica Powders can also be used in place of the inks. If you use mica powder it has to be mixed thoroughly. The ratios are important. Too much flow improver will give a splotchy result. Too much pearlescent medium won’t allow it to flow, particularly if you have a heavy pigment like the mica powder. Good quality pigments or mica powders will give better results. If the powders are too chalky they won’t dissolve properly. I’m currently setting up my own hobby channel that will focus on budget diy hints and tips, so this is pertinent to me.
Great experiment! I think vallejo metal colors would work better mixed with contrast style paints than army painter's metallic contrast. Maybe a follow-up video?
I recall Goobertown talked about why the AP's speed paint metallics didn't make sense to him. I can't remember the specifics, it was something about the "chemical" aspect of metal or something, but maybe that could also be a clue to bringing a true metallic contrast?
This actually might not be a bad technique for painting metallic cloth. I try to base my models on historical fashion illustrations and getting a good looking metallic cloth that might work for a dress in an 80s or late 40s LA nightclub has been a long term goal of mine.
Try the metallic base, your darker recess color addition(s), and a glazing or matte medium in something like a 1:1:20 or 1:1:30 mixture and see what becomes of it. Just remember to adjust the parts as desired in those ranges and it *should* work for you
@@LylaMev lol. I seen that but maybe a year or so ago I deep dived into paint and medium "mixology" and I can't tell you how many times I was told that using contrast medium and adding the color of your choice (no brainer I thought) would not result in an accurate contrast paint. Their logic was the contrast medium (and their equals in other lines ) are ment to dilute and aren't the same as the base medium they use at the factory to create the premade versions we buy. Are they right? Meh I found its mostly semantics but (always a but 🤣) it can greatly depend on the brand of paint you use. A thicker paint like Kimera or scale75 artist tubes are a better choice than say army painter. This video just brought back that experience as I dont recall seeing anyone else go that route. I know you were really looking for the metallic finish look. I was interested in the one you did that had a more nonmetallic metal look. I think it may be a good start to a cheat for nmm on squads or larger groups. As usual your content is informative and entertaining. Thanks for all your hard work helping us knuckle draggers be better.
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I'm tempted to try al Liquitex metallic ink and speed paint medium.
I didn't know those existed! I wish I had so I could have tried them for this video!
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@@LylaMev FW (Daler Rowney) also has metallic inks, but I can not find them locally. The Liquitex inks I have tried are plain colours, but they have such a nice glossy finish I use in place of colour metallics.
Just a heads up. A couple of your text descriptions of how many drops to add versus what your saying are off. Other than that a very informative vid. :) Thanks for putting the effort in Ma'am.
Whats your go - to technique for painting metallics fast?
I usually dry brush metallics.
I like to do a thin metallic coat and then a watered down ink wash for my shades. But I'm not very good with TMM to begin with :P
For a non- contrast surface treatment, I have used some model acrylics mixed with a dash of Liquitex silver acrylic ink, and this gave me some good effects when applied with an airbrush.
I've always had decent luck either a) using metallics straight, or b) a coat of very bright silver and then ink on top.
I do the one option you didn’t mention. I do the under painting with metallics and then apply a contrast over it. Black over a silver, a brown over golds and bronzes. It works out really well.
I think you would make your life a lot easier on yourself if you did your underpainting with with a dark silver base and bright silver highlight, instead of trying to make it work over a greyscale. It’s the exact same amount of work, and you tried with other colors, but you really need something that is way more forgiving when working with matallic paint where you thinned out the pigments to make them flow more.
Thanks for this idea, I'm going to try this!
Marco Frisoni makes a metallic 'contrast' style paint using inks, Vallejo Metal Color, and medium for translucency. Vallejo Metal Color (any of the silvers work) is the key really, it has so much very fine metal pigment that it still looks metallic even when thinned, and is already very thin as it's intended for airbrushing.
However, this style of paint is always going to be conceptually very difficult to get working well - metallic pigments are completely opaque, and the metallic effect is achieved when they settle on the surface. So if you don't have enough in the paint it will just look like glitter dispersed in a paint medium, but too much and it won't allow any underpainting to show through.
I prefer to use contrast paints as a filter over metallics. IMHO this is a great way to create different colour metallics. Downside is that you lose a bit of the sheen the same way you have when applying washes to the metallic parts (while I prefer that, other don't have to), and can also cause coffee stain if you use the brush.
Fun experiment but i think theres a much better method. Use metallics as the undercoat for slap chop. Any color over silver will make a different color metallic. Blue grey for steel, yellow brown for gold, red brown for copper. The reason this works way better is because we DONT want our metallic pigment in the recesses, it completely ruins the metallic illusion.
In short, prime black or base coat black -> dry brush/highlight silver -> slap chop speed paint -> highlight with silver mixed with small amount of speed paint for Color.
This technique works best with Vallejo metal color silver or aluminum.
My favorite way to paint metallics is quite simple, black primer followed by a vallejo liquid silver zenithal highlight, then apply contrast/speedpaint. Depending on how much metallic I want to have, I'll mix in the appropriate medium for thinner coats and adjust with a second layer if needed.
I was using the contrast painting method YEARS before GW brought out contrast paint. I was using Army Painter inks and Secret Weapon Washes...for metallics, I used either silver or chain mail primer then covered with ink or wash cut with a tiny amount of flow improver (I rarely thin paints, inks, or washes with water. Even contrast or speedpaint)
I wonder how well Vince Venturella's gold recipe from Hobby Cheating 306 wold work with this idea of a speed paint?
This is exactly what I was thinking. What about trying existing contrast paints, but with adding metallic pigment to them?
Sadly, contrast paints and metallic pigment are just at odds with each other. Contrast paint is designed to leave more pigment in the recesses and less on raised edges, which is the exact opposite of where you want metallic pigment to go. This is why you kept getting that glittery look, because metallics need near total coverage to work and the contrast mediums were making sure that could only happen in the shadows.
Painting figures is a Big Fat Pain in the ASS!! I think that those who do it probably have nothing else to do with their valuable time!!!
Couple of thoughts on a very thought provoking video. 1 - The addition of some flow improver may help the mixture flow into the recesses in a more repeatable way. 2 - I was wondering if a dark reddish brown base with bright red zenithal highlight under the contrast mix might help sell the gold effect. Red is often used under gold leaf to help sell the effect and the dark red-brown would give a warm shadow.
I think this would have gone better if you had used actual good metallic paints. Gehenna Gold doesn't even look like gold when undiluted! Why aren't you trying this with e.g. Vallejo Metal Colour, or Greenstuff World metallic pigments? If this was something I was interested in doing, I would try something like Contrast/Speedpaint medium + GSW ancient gold pigment + sepia ink. And yeah, like another commenter said, underpaint with silver, we all know metallics on top of white looks like crap.
so far my personal go to for metallics is using the Airbrush. it may sound crazy but I'm painting a Grey Knights Army and I've managed to not only get the silver blue hue known to them but also depending on how the light hits my models they look Metallic Blue, metallic silver/blue or pure silver. I've used for them Turbo Dork's turboshift wavelength as the base color then deciding on the light source, go with Silver fox, and then mix of silver fox and tin star for the final highlights.
it might not be a "fast" technique but when painting large models or a few in one hit it works.
Personally I don't think that works, because if your underpaint is white-ish or a cream colour as its brightest colour, that can look weird ir you're going for some metallic colour like iron. It just doesn't look realistic with a less metallic, cream-colured edge to it. Personally I like the new washes from GW and their contrast paints for this purpose, just apply the dark/light metallic base coat of choice and stain/tint it with the wanted colour. The new washes behave more like contrast paints and does less coffee staining and pools slightly better, and it doesn't tint/dulls/darken the surfaces as much as the old formulas did. But this is all about application and the look you're after, and the time spent doing it! :) But still a cool and fun experiment to do! :)
Drybrushing and a wash plus a simple drybrushed highlight are the way to go, and simple/fast enough.🤓
Please remember to like and comment to appease the almighty algorithm 😁❤️👍🏼
HOW ARE YOU THIS FAST.
I've been experimenting with using a darker contrast for base, then highlighting as usual with lighter glazes. Not exactly a speed process though.
I think that an undercoat of metallic paint with a shade is the way to go. Using something like Forgeworld's Marine Juice deals with the problem of weird pooling/coffee staining, and the Marine Juice is just easier to make at home than a DIY metallic contrast.
I puddy and airbrush. For fine lines and things, I'll use metallic gel pens.
Folk art or whatever craft brand makes this mica pigmented paints that I've added to contrasts that do decently for applications like this.
I've thought about getting mica and playing with various flow aids to see if I can concoct something, but figure the chemists will figure it out some day.
I'm going to be controversial, honestly, I don't do speed painting at all and I don't really want to hurry my process in painting. I'm an artist first and foremost, and came to miniature painting when I became interested in d&d in early high school. I can paint small/medium miniatures at a quick enough rate (one to three days w/ free time) that I don't really feel the desired need to hurry it up even more.
Like maybe I'll change my opinion when I dive full force in painting my ratfolk but eh, I think folks' opinions on contrast paint depend on whether or not you find a lot of enjoyment in the painting process.
With a different undercoat, I could see the metallic paint ideas here being useful. But, I wouldn't black and grey showing through. And, that only really works if we want that undertone for the whole mini.
Personally, I'm in the group that tends to paint with a high quality silver and add the depth either with washes or a transparent paint. Yes, it tones down the metallic slightly by having another layer on top, but at least it doesn't look like glitter.
I do find the metallic Speed paints to be mostly useless. I treat them as a cheap metallic that can be slapped on to lower quality minis.
My favourite cheaty-pete technique for metalics is to include something like Liquitex's bright silver ink blended with other inks for the right colours and tones
Have you considered mixing You're one coat base color paint into a higher metallic pigment paint like Vallejo metal color or maybe scale 75 or monument hobbies? Like a paint that's not contrast base.
Tbh i think that's just overcomplicating
You can use the metallic with a filter of the color you want
Or you can even use the metallic 'wash over metallic' recipe. Just paying attention to pooling
Or you can do another good and fast option, that is metallic base and pin washing to avoid coffee staining
Personally what I like to do is go for a Black prime and then dry brush the metallic color I want and use contrast paints to get the hue of color I want. Then if I feel like being extra I do a matte varnish and use an oil wash, rub most of it off and then do a VERY light dry brush with a silver metallic paint to finish the effect but I'm not going to do that for every miniature with metal on it.
So speed paint 2.0 metallic lines isn't meant or advertised by army painter to be like the others that give you highlights and shadows. The metallic line in the speed paints is meant to cover in one coat and that's all.
We are never going to get a perfect metal speed paint. Metal flakes are opaque, and thinking the paint out just adds medium amd separates the flakes. The first model is a classic example. The metal flakes are are also heavier, so they will sink into the recesses more than paint and medium will.
We can get close, but it's impossible to make the metal flakes transparent, so we are only going to get so far, unfortunately.
Great experiment. You could go back in with a dry brush of a bright gold (or bright silver) metallic to punch up the metallic look while keeping the speedpaint concoction in the recessed areas. Just like you might do with a standard metallic/wash approach.
Gonna stick to standard metallics.
Speed paints are okay for sure, but they're not completely a replacement for painting in all respects.
So you lazily gave the gold a wash to give your method more merit? Literally could aboded that pooling by touching it with a dry brush. But content right?
I'm a simple man. If there is a video that highlights the bad aspects of Army Painter paints, I upvote.
I think regular metallics with a oil wash is the goto, more control taking off what you don't want with a oil wash and no coffee staining. Plus the wash really sinks into things. .
What about gold paint and contrast medium with a few drops of glaze medium?
In modalism to achieve a nice gold result, we are using chrome as a based and then an orange ink. Check for satellite's painting
Too paint silver metallic fast I put down a base coat of black and then dry brush the metallic paint on.
Airbrush with mirror chrome ink as a base coat, speed paint 2.0 for color.
I've yet to hear anyone happy with a perfect metallic paint, thanks for sharing.
CAT
CAT.
@@LylaMev I like cat very much.
I paint a normal metallic color and then use an ink wash or tint, that's my "fast" method.
Vallejo make the best metallic paints that's just my view as I dont paint to play .
It's sort of wild to me that GW didn't make contrast metallics.
Thank you for the video!
I have the Army Painter metallic set and I would agree that it doesn't work as well as the normal speedpaints or Contrast paints. There is some difference in the recesses but not enough. I think I might try mixing a light and dark metallic speed paint to see if that helps.
I think the metallics work well for metallic details - a gun, a sword, jewelry, badges, and so on. But maybe not as well as one would like for armor and stuff like that.
I've always wanted to ask is it better to start on small minis or larger ones
This video is sponsored by…. Cat 😂
Great video. I have also extensively experimented with creating my own metallic contrast paints. I have used Metallic Paints with Flow Improver which gave mixed results. I also have used Metallic Acrylic inks and Flow Medium (a mixture of Acrylic Medium and Flow Improver) which gave good results. My best results came from a Pearlescent Medium as a base (the brand is a trade secret as it’s hard to get), Metallic and Shimmer Inks and Flow Improver. Metallic Mica Powders can also be used in place of the inks. If you use mica powder it has to be mixed thoroughly. The ratios are important. Too much flow improver will give a splotchy result. Too much pearlescent medium won’t allow it to flow, particularly if you have a heavy pigment like the mica powder. Good quality pigments or mica powders will give better results. If the powders are too chalky they won’t dissolve properly. I’m currently setting up my own hobby channel that will focus on budget diy hints and tips, so this is pertinent to me.
Great stuff friend 👏 👍
Great experiment! I think vallejo metal colors would work better mixed with contrast style paints than army painter's metallic contrast. Maybe a follow-up video?
I recall Goobertown talked about why the AP's speed paint metallics didn't make sense to him. I can't remember the specifics, it was something about the "chemical" aspect of metal or something, but maybe that could also be a clue to bringing a true metallic contrast?
Hi, do you do commisions?
This actually might not be a bad technique for painting metallic cloth. I try to base my models on historical fashion illustrations and getting a good looking metallic cloth that might work for a dress in an 80s or late 40s LA nightclub has been a long term goal of mine.
All glory to the hypno-algo!
Lyla Legend! 🔥🔥🥰🍻
So good
Try the metallic base, your darker recess color addition(s), and a glazing or matte medium in something like a 1:1:20 or 1:1:30 mixture and see what becomes of it. Just remember to adjust the parts as desired in those ranges and it *should* work for you
You ever try taking inks? People take silver ink and mix it with either sepia, umber or red/orange to make gold
I didn't know there was silver ink!
Ink is an interesting suggestion. How might that work with flow improver or media?
Remind me again why we can't just mix paint into contrast medium and have a custom contrast paint.
....... That's what I do in the video?
@@LylaMev lol. I seen that but maybe a year or so ago I deep dived into paint and medium "mixology" and I can't tell you how many times I was told that using contrast medium and adding the color of your choice (no brainer I thought) would not result in an accurate contrast paint. Their logic was the contrast medium (and their equals in other lines ) are ment to dilute and aren't the same as the base medium they use at the factory to create the premade versions we buy.
Are they right? Meh I found its mostly semantics but (always a but 🤣) it can greatly depend on the brand of paint you use. A thicker paint like Kimera or scale75 artist tubes are a better choice than say army painter.
This video just brought back that experience as I dont recall seeing anyone else go that route. I know you were really looking for the metallic finish look. I was interested in the one you did that had a more nonmetallic metal look. I think it may be a good start to a cheat for nmm on squads or larger groups.
As usual your content is informative and entertaining. Thanks for all your hard work helping us knuckle draggers be better.
I'm tempted to try al Liquitex metallic ink and speed paint medium.
I didn't know those existed! I wish I had so I could have tried them for this video!
I didn't know those existed! I wish I had so I could have tried them for this video!
@@LylaMev FW (Daler Rowney) also has metallic inks, but I can not find them locally.
The Liquitex inks I have tried are plain colours, but they have such a nice glossy finish I use in place of colour metallics.
Just a heads up. A couple of your text descriptions of how many drops to add versus what your saying are off. Other than that a very informative vid. :) Thanks for putting the effort in Ma'am.
Oh no!
Actually an interesting video. I hadn't thought about contrast metallic paints.
Happy to help!
metallic speedpaints? yes please!
First!
Darn. Not first.
So close!
That looks terrible
Wow. Thank you. You are so kind. This is exactly the kind of interaction I need.