Dispelling Myths About the Nazgul and the Nine Rings

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  • Опубликовано: 18 дек 2024

Комментарии • 188

  • @KevDaly
    @KevDaly 2 года назад +69

    What if Sauron needs the One to enslave new wearers of the Nine?

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +21

      That’s another point I forgot to mention, so I’m glad you brought it up!

    • @jpeterd92
      @jpeterd92 2 года назад +4

      I came here to say this

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +9

      Then why did Sauron need to forge his Ring to begin with?

    • @windsaw151
      @windsaw151 2 года назад +4

      ​@@WitcherOnTrail I always thought the solution to this problem was obvious:
      The actual power the Three displayed was the power of Sauron, "corrupted" into good because he made the mistake of teaching them how to make these rings. The elven smiths probably didn't know that the magic they created was not their own but came from another source: Sauron himself, who put it into the One.

    • @Crafty_Spirit
      @Crafty_Spirit 2 года назад +6

      @@WitcherOnTrail I personally tend to think that the One was needed to subjugate the other ring-bearers, yet it was no longer needed after these men turned to wraiths, and Sauron recollected their rings, he may control the Nazgûl through the Nine Rings

  • @joseraulcapablanca8564
    @joseraulcapablanca8564 2 года назад +9

    It seems to me that since the nine were under the control of the nine ring, that was their capacity fully used. Thanks and keep up the good work.

  • @earlwajenberg
    @earlwajenberg 2 года назад +11

    I always assumed that the Nazgul were *kept* enslaved to Sauron by his keeping their rings. If he gave them to other men, the first Nazgul would be loosed.

  • @beatleblev
    @beatleblev 2 года назад +8

    I'm of the persuasion that all the Rings of Power lesser and greater were made by the Elves (Gwaith-i-Mírdain) for the Elves of Eregion. Some were probably party favor level rings and then there were the 16 Great Rings made by the Jewel Smiths with Sauron's help. We are told that the Great Rings enhance the personal power of the user and preserve the wearer and perhaps their local environment in a diet coke version of the Undying Lands. This way the Noldor can have their Undying cake and eat it too in Middle Earth. Bless their hearts, the Noldor really cant help it. It's cats and curiosity. Toss in the inevitability of the Curse of Mandos and calamity ensues. The alchemical mix of pride, guilt, avoidance, and sub-creation enmeshed in the creation of the Rings of Power (even Celebrimbor's Three) dominated two ages as opposed to the one of the Silmarils. In the end, the creation of the Rings results in flat-earthers going from right to wrong (with a heapin' helping of Numenorean fear and pride).
    It makes sense to me that Sauron would take up the Nine as soon as he was physically able to do so. Until that point I would assume that the Nazgul have their Rings unless, as you say, they were buried and inaccessible to the Ringwraiths. He has nine fingers. There are Nine Rings. Nine lesser power enhancers are better than none. Their posession also bound the spirits of the Nine to Sauron in addition to all the ways they are bound to him like all his other minions. Perhaps this allows direct communication and control, or enhancement as at the Pelennor Fields. Tolkien doesn't divulge his magical mechanics. We get hints and a bunch of, "as if...," "it seemed as though..." when describing magical effects. This sort of discussion is how we attempt to fill in the blanks.

  • @squashedeyeball
    @squashedeyeball 2 года назад +3

    A great dissection of all the information!
    I agree that timelines explain a lot both in real life, and in the legendarium (which is merely our distant past, of course). And there is the notion that Sauron himself didn't know every single possibility and effect of his rings... Some of what he learned was due to trial and error, which was forced upon him. Like being defeated, losing the Ruling Ring, and only then realizing that he's still ok.
    So perhaps if tlotr's events were postpone for centuries later for whatever reason, maybe he could have had more Nazgul. If the nine rings worked like that, and weren't tied to their previous users.

  • @istari0
    @istari0 2 года назад +14

    My understanding is that Sauron designed the first 16 Rings of Power to target the elves as he saw men as being corruptible enough already and probably didn't think the dwarves were big enough players to be that concerned about. I don't think it was a case of the elves putting nasty abilities into the rings; Sauron handled that part of it himself (except of course for the later 3 rings Celebrimbor did himself). Later, when Sauron handed out rings to Men and Dwarves, he may not have really had a good idea what they outcome would be.

  • @toshomni9478
    @toshomni9478 2 года назад +12

    I doubt Sauron would want an army of Ringwraiths anyway because they might threaten his power. Great video.

    • @istari0
      @istari0 2 года назад +11

      The Ringwraiths were enslaved to Sauron's will so they literally couldn't act against him. That's why Sauron sent them to hunt for the One Ring.

    • @painlord2k
      @painlord2k 2 года назад +7

      The Ringwraith had no will of their own, just Sauron's.
      They were independent and intelligent but their goals were Sauron goals.

  • @mikestanmore2614
    @mikestanmore2614 2 года назад +6

    I had always assumed that the Ring Wraiths still had a physical presence, but that they had 'faded', essentially becoming permanently almost invisible in the same vein as the invisibility granted by the One Ring.

    • @JohnGeorgeBauerBuis
      @JohnGeorgeBauerBuis 2 года назад +3

      Yes, that fits with the Witch-King wearing a crown, and all of them wielding weapons, riding horses, and wearing robes and armor.

    • @TheTdroid
      @TheTdroid 2 года назад +1

      Yes and no. I think it is much more restrictive than simply invisibility. If it was, why use clothes at all, instead of simply walking invisibly up to whoever they need to deal with, being effectively perfect assassins? Gandalf says in the Fellowship that the Nine will need time to flee and cloak themselves again after drowning in the tide outside of Imladris, because they need their clothes/armor/etc to give them a form in the material world to interact with it. I think he says they were "left shapeless" or something to that effect. It's in chapter XII of the Fellowship of the Ring: Flight to the Ford.

    • @mikestanmore2614
      @mikestanmore2614 2 года назад

      @@TheTdroid Yes, but were they only left shapeless because their physical forms were destroyed? Much like Gandalf, whose spirit left Middle Earth and returned. Now Gandalf was a Maiar, but the wraiths were extremely powerful. I think the near invisibility and their need to reform after the ford at bruinen might not be the same thing.

  • @linnharamis1496
    @linnharamis1496 2 года назад

    Thanks!

  • @coffeecupwithtea
    @coffeecupwithtea 2 года назад +5

    I think an obvious answer might be that the one ring is required to make a final transition into a Nazgul. And without it in his possession, giving a ring of power to anyone will simply make them into something closer to Gollum.

  • @Vasious8128
    @Vasious8128 2 года назад +5

    Seemed like the 16 rings were made for what ever reason Anatar told/gave to that Elves would want to make and give out to their greatest so they they would be held by the most useful for The One Ring to then facilitate the control of.
    Handing them out to Dwarves and Men seemed like a Plan B when their nature as a Poison Chalice was revealed to the Elves. Once trapped into Sauron's service the rings purpose was complete and so no longer needed to be with the Wraiths.

  • @magicofshootingstar
    @magicofshootingstar 2 года назад +11

    I took a lot simpler path to why the rings are not handed over again. I have thought that the ringwraiths were mighty people when they were alive. They were leaders of their people and I have thought that is part of the reason why they were so mighty as ringwraiths too. Well when we get close to the times of LoTR, I don't think there are mighty leaders stupid enough to take rings from Sauron since they know what has happened in the past. So I thought Sauron could only create "second class" ringwraiths with rings, not similar than earlier. And yes, this thinking is extremely classist but so is the time of LoTR. 😅

  • @pwmiles56
    @pwmiles56 2 года назад +8

    Interesting questions. I think the Other Side is important here. It's probably the same as the "twilight" the Ring-wraiths are supposed to walk in, under the eye of the Dark Lord (The Shadow of the Past). Were the Great Rings made as portals to the Other Side? Bearing in mind, only Elves who have lived in Valinor can go there of their own volition.

  • @coffeegator6033
    @coffeegator6033 2 года назад +1

    Maybe he wears them to speed up his power while recovering. That sounds fun. 9 rings for 9 fingers. Gollum didn't note seeing any rings when he mentioned Sauron's hand missing a finger though.

  • @timm1328
    @timm1328 2 года назад +2

    1. A ring of power can bestow some gifts upon whom it recognizes as its bearer, e.g. long life, whether or not the bearer wears it. Frodo never wore the one ring for 17 years, but he stopped, aging. Bilbo started aging again the moment he left the one ring behind.
    2. A ring of power can hide itself from being perceived, though it cannot hide itself from the one ring. Galadriel mentions this to Frodo.
    3. The bearers of the nine likely actively sought to achieve their wraith form. they probably did wear and usevtheir rings, and the wraith form is useful.
    4. While Sauron held the One Ring, the ring wraiths likely wielded their own rings; Sauron could control the wraiths through it.
    5. After the loss of the one ring, my guess is the wraiths removed their rings and hid them, lest they fall under the sway of a new ring lord, perhaps at Dol Guldur, the Last alluance yad control of Barad Dur and Orodruin.
    6. when Sauron returned as the necromancer, he probably had physical control of the nine rings, and some of the seven. But, his control of the ring wraiths was probably maintained through deception, and old habits and patterns of thinking inculcated into the wraiths.
    7. Had Sauron actually attempted to gift one of the nine rings to another, that wraith would likely die quickly; Sauron would have given a powerful object to an uncontrollable person, and lost a well-trained servant. remeber Bilbo stopped aging at 50. At age 111, he gave up the ring and was at death’s door within 20 years. The real question is why did 500 year old gollum not age like Bilbo? He did, but he was MUCH younger when he claimed the ring.
    8. Sauron did attempt to bribe people with some of the dwarven rings. As mentioned at the council of Elrond.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +1

      1. There's a difference between possessing but not wearing and not even possessing. The long life seems to work once a certain point has been reached at least but there's no reason to think other effects of the rings would carry once possession was lost.
      2. I think rather than the rings hiding themselves, it's the bearers who do the hiding, but I don't see how this is relevant.
      3. Not likely; how would they have even known that would happen to them? Invisibility sure, but perpetual wraith status? I don't see it.
      4. He obviously used the One to enslave them; after that their keeping their own rings wasn't necessary.
      5. That's assuming Sauron hadn't already reclaimed them by that point.
      6. His control was maintained because they had already been enslaved to his will; no deception necessary.
      7. Bilbo only starts to age after the One Ring is destroyed, not after he gave it up; that's an error based on the Peter Jackson trilogy.
      8. I meant to mention that, actually, though it's possible that was a false offer; Sauron wouldn't necessarily have followed through on that promise.

    • @davidrees1840
      @davidrees1840 2 года назад

      I disagree with point 5: if that were so, the 9 would no longer be under Sauron's control, but Frodo's, would not have stabbed him, etc. Possesion of the Ring does not make you its master. Although it confers benefits, only Sauron can be its master, and the 9 are bound to it.

    • @MerkhVision
      @MerkhVision Год назад

      @davidrees1840 Based on the words and actions of some of the characters like Sauron and Gandalf, they seemed to believe that while Sauron was currently still the master of the One Ring despite not possessing it, it _was_ in fact possible for someone else to master it if they had enough power, intent, and practice.

  • @desen6486
    @desen6486 2 года назад +2

    Lets also ask if Sauron even wanted another Ringwraith. Tolkein makes it clear that for entities like Sauron and Morgoth to corrupt creatures it takes a very real amount of their power. Sauron's strength, or will, or ability to dominate is some finite quantity that has to be expended wisely and strategically. For something as strong as a Ringwraith we can assume that this is a significant investment to make. Would it be advantageous to make a 10th Ringwraith rather than, say, 10,000 more orcs?
    The Ringwraiths were mostly Sauron's scouts and agents, and they were already performing that well. I don't see a 10th Ringwraith necessarily being useful in battering down the walls of Minas Tirith, especially assuming that the new Ringwraith would be the weakest of them rather than a new Witch King. A new Ringwraith being sent out could possibly have just been killed off immediately and easily if it came across a mighty character like in the fellowship and certainly it would be no match for someone like Gandalf or Saruman. I'm kind of imagining the Mouth of Sauron being empowered by Sauron and then still being an overconfident idiot and getting himself killed.

  • @darinpeaker216
    @darinpeaker216 2 года назад

    Thanks

  • @angelalewis3645
    @angelalewis3645 2 года назад +6

    I’m thinking it would take a lot less time than you suggest for men to turn into ringwraiths… because Gandalf indicates that hobbits are remarkably resilient creatures… which has led me to believe they resist the evil influence of the One Ring far longer than a human would. …
    However, the other mortal race is dwarves. And the rings seem to affect the dwarves very little, except for making them more greedy. They don’t turn them into wraiths at all. So maybe any comparison between the races and the effects of the rings on them can only be speculation, cannot definitively be proved accurate.

  • @enriqueparodiYT1
    @enriqueparodiYT1 2 года назад +7

    Your thoughts lead me to the following doubt: Does the Witch King actually die by Eowyn's sword at the Pelenor fields? Or he just gets "hurt" and gets back to Mordor to recover like when they get swept by the river at Rivendel? I imagine that they all get freed (and can really die) when the ring gets destroyed...

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +8

      I get the impression his spirit fled to Mordor after Eowyn stabbed him, and his spirit was finally and fully released with the destruction of the Ring.

    • @beatleblev
      @beatleblev 2 года назад +4

      @@TolkienLorePodcast Or, perhaps Merry's dagger of Westernesse broke the spell that held the Witch King's fea to the Ring. Maybe the newly widowed Ring goes with the tower of Orthanc and that's why the Mouth of Sauron is more of a smirk at the parley before the Black Gate.

  • @povilzem
    @povilzem 2 года назад +3

    The way I see it, all of the great rings do exactly the same thing: amplify the wearer's already existing power and ability.
    For elves they help preserve ancient knowledge, for dwarves they bring greater wealth, to men they bestow military power, to hobbits they provide ultimate stealth, to Sauron they help dominate the world.
    The nazgûl's abilities all come from their experience as kings of Men and from them being wraiths, not necessarily from their rings.
    I kinda think that if any particular nazgûl's ring were given to somebody else other than Sauron, it would create a conflict, something like what happened with Bilbo and Gollum. I think they're just as obsessed with their own "Precious".

  • @garydmcgath
    @garydmcgath 2 года назад +4

    The thought that the dwarf rings were designed to acquire treasure is interesting, since that's exactly what the Andvaranaut was made for. The Andvaranaut, of course, was the cursed ring in the Volsung Saga. It was obviously the original of Wagner's Ring, not quite so obviously of Tolkien's. Have you ever discussed the relationship of the One Ring to the Andvaranaut and/or the Ring of Gyges?

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +1

      I haven’t, though one of these days I might.

    • @chriss3276
      @chriss3276 2 года назад +2

      The Rings were all intended and created to be used by Elves. It was only after Sauron's plan failed and he recovered them from the Elves that Sauron gave them to the other races. The effect on Dwarves was not what Sauron intended (his intention was always to be to turn the wearer to his will).

    • @KororaPenguin
      @KororaPenguin 9 месяцев назад

      I suspect that Thráin's Ring may have been in possession of the Mouth of Sauron, and that the Mouth of Sauron had been halfway to becoming a Nazgûl.

  • @margaretalbrecht4650
    @margaretalbrecht4650 2 года назад +3

    I think of the Nazgul as being transdimensional with most of them being in the "wraith-world." So that's why Frodo could see them when he was wearing the ring --- he was a part of that world then.
    Merry's Dúnedain forged blade could affect the Witch King's body in that wraith-world and so broke the spell that "knit his unseen sinews to his will."

  • @TheKingofkrypton
    @TheKingofkrypton 2 года назад +4

    Do you think that the War of the Ring was recent enough in man's (most short-lived species in ME) memory that Sauron might doubt being able to find approachable subjects without his actions being discovered? It seems like it might be better to wait until people were less vigilant, which might take many generations. I don't think he was very concerned about how long it would take, but maybe since he knew that certain people stayed aware of his existence he would've been hastier with it. It's a really good question.

  • @KevDaly
    @KevDaly 2 года назад +1

    If the Nazgûl were actually wearing or remotely using their rings you might reasonably expect that their clothing and armour would be invisible, not just their bodies.

  • @GreatGreebo
    @GreatGreebo 2 года назад +1

    Excellent video…I’m currently suffering from insomnia so this made my night.🤘

  • @helendietrich7566
    @helendietrich7566 2 года назад

    I think I am in love :) You look cool and know a hell lot about Tolkien ;) What can be better?

  • @robertherring9277
    @robertherring9277 2 года назад

    Great video!

  • @cathygrandstaff1957
    @cathygrandstaff1957 2 года назад +2

    I think the 16 rings give their wearer whatever they want most: to men, doomed to die, the rings grant immortality of a sort. To dwarves, mighty craftsmen, the rings turn up their desire to craft so they create vast hoards of dwarven made treasure.
    For why Sauron doesn’t give the rings to more people: honestly that seems like a one time thing, like maybe after the first group of people turn into ring wraiths everyone becomes suspicious of random guys handing out magic rings. Certainly if I were someone in Gondor and knew about the wraiths and someone came up to me and said “hey I’ve got a magic ring for you” I’d be like 😒 “No thank you”. You’d probably need someone who was already desperate to live longer and somewhat corrupted already, possibly Sauron had been grooming Denethor to become a new wraith, tormenting him with visions of his own impending death so when Sauron had a chance to offer him a ring of immortality Denethor would be more likely to take it even though it would mean betraying his people and signing himself over to Sauron.

  • @Masterty66
    @Masterty66 2 года назад +2

    It could just be a matter of needing strong ring bearers (and a lot of time) to get anything out of it. Sauron gave these rings to powerful men. Presumably the corruption of them into ring wraiths also took a long time (maybe hundreds of years?). We know that Ring Wraiths can create other lesser wraiths by stabbing people with Morgul Blades. Frodo almost became one. But Frodo would have been weaker than the Nazgul. So if Sauron wants some more ring wraiths he'd not only need to give the rings out to men worthy of being corrupted, but he'd also have to invest the time required to corrupt them. And above all else, maybe he needed the one ring in his possession to do so.

    • @davidrees1840
      @davidrees1840 2 года назад +3

      Yes to strong ringbearers because, besides 'power amplification', these are people who have the confidence/arrogance to believe they can withstand any negative power a ring may have, in the same way that Denethor's and Saruman's arrogance let them believe they could control any danger an uncounted palantir might represent. The risk of using a palantir was clear to most, so a magic ring might have made people similarly wary.

  • @johnries5593
    @johnries5593 2 года назад

    The Nazgul could ride horses, which suggests corporeality; as does the ability of the Witch King to stab Frodo with the Morgul knife; but they were permanently invisible (but could be seen by the wearer of the Ring). Note how the Witch King was killed (stabbed by Merry and then beheaded by Eowyn).

  • @finrod55
    @finrod55 2 года назад +1

    Timeline: Eregion was destroyed around 1697 of the Second Age and the Nazgûl first appeared in 2251 of the Second Age, some 254 years later. Assuming Sauron obtained the 9 rings around SA 1700, he had about 250 years to ensnare 9 men and turn them into Nazgûl.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +1

      I think you need to check your math. 1697 - 2251 is 554 years.

    • @painlord2k
      @painlord2k 2 года назад

      @@TolkienLorePodcast
      That is a lot of life extension.
      This if he needed to wait the "death" of the living body of the ringbearers.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +1

      The point is we don’t know what happened in those 554 years. Did he give the rings to Men immediately? Did it take them 500 years to become wraiths? Did he just hold them back for a while? We don’t know.

  • @heresjohnny4836
    @heresjohnny4836 2 года назад

    i believe the wraiths had the extra bonus of sauron doing the corruption himself which im sure helped things progress

  • @1234andrewjacksmith
    @1234andrewjacksmith 2 года назад +1

    I think the whole why he doesn't just use the rings can be Based on Gandalf words on it since it is mentioned all the Great Rings grant Long life(by more just Pausing it until every day is weariness) and if you regularly use it to turn invisible your body will fade and be forced to walk in a twilight realm under the Eye
    Gandalf does say as long as they keep the rings the life goes on and the fading is separate so it is possible that it more of a ring per person for the life extension though how long it lasts after that not counting how all the rings would be bad for mortals even without Sauron touch and the Nine and Seven more so with his direct touch(I mean the fact they seem to make a difference may Imply they do have diffrenint powers.
    though how different may be hard to say but most likely similar to how the One is more Aggressive in its powers than say the three since a few people and even Sauron thinks that you can use the One to overpower him but can't use the Three for that because they were not meant for that.
    with any other changes being just the whole the ring is limited by the user
    it is implied that Bilbo is ageing at least in the movies again though Gandalf does say that the influence would eventually leave him

  • @exantiuse497
    @exantiuse497 2 года назад +1

    The Nazgul definitely have physical bodies, they aren't ghosts. Those bodies are invisible, or rather they exist in the realm of shadows or wraith world which exists in the same space as the real world but can't be seen by its residents (nor can the residents of wraith world properly see into the real world). They can still physically interact with one another, so the Nazgul can ride horses that exist in the real world and Merri can stab the Witch King who resides in the wraith world
    When people that wear the One turn invisible what actually happens is they're pulled into the border between the real world and the wraith world, where they can observe both worlds. This is why Frodo can see the Nazgul when he puts on the Ring, and why they can suddenly see him

  • @leventekaradi8439
    @leventekaradi8439 2 года назад +2

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but in The Two Towers, Gollum does mention that 'now there are only four fingers on the Black Hand'. Doesn't it mean that Sauron did have a physical form during the War of the Ring?

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +2

      Yep

    • @chriss3276
      @chriss3276 2 года назад +2

      Yes, Tolkien made a sketch of Sauron and it was always his intention that Sauron had a physical humaniod/elvenoid form.

  • @finrod55
    @finrod55 2 года назад

    Yes, that’s long enough to Nazgulize. I shouldn’t count and bbq at the same time!😂

  • @MRdaBakkle
    @MRdaBakkle 2 года назад +2

    The Elves also never made the rings for anyone but themselves I think they do much the same as the three. They perserve and prolong life. They grant the Ringbearers greater power than they have. The 7 increasing wealth I think just means that the magic in them drove the Dwarves to delve deeper for riches

  • @lordinquisitordunn336
    @lordinquisitordunn336 2 года назад +4

    Are you telling me that shadow of war, that totally canonical and not complete bs fanfic lied to me? Lol, jk, love the video mate, keep it up

  • @RaspK
    @RaspK 2 года назад

    If you need a good reference to humans becoming sorcerers of sorts, go no further than how the Necromancer is treated.

  • @davidrees1840
    @davidrees1840 2 года назад +1

    I think the rings are like (Harry Potter) horcruxes, a piece of Sauron in each ring, but far less than in the One Ring. If so, maybe Sauron limits the number of rings as it 'dilutes' him (like Voldemort, or Bilbo feeling like too little butter scraped over toast). The 9 rings were given to men who were already powerful (kings), and probably enhanced their ability to convince/cajole/deceive others and so enhance their abilities to achieve their goals while the rings slowly take them over. The rings lock onto their life force, prevent natural death, keeping them in a between-life-and-death state until the One Ring is destroyed. The rings do nothing for them once they are taken over other than prevent natural death. The Witch King could not be killed by man before he got his ring, and therefore that does not apply to the other eight: I believe they could be killed, with difficulty/magic/something. Not sure if the 9 needed to wear the rings after they were taken over; maybe Sauron keeps them close to be more whole.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +1

      There’s no reason to think Sauron put any of himself in the other rings. If anything it would make his job harder. Also the Witch King could be killed by men before he got his ring. And it’s not that he *couldn’t* be killed so much as he *wouldn’t*.

    • @davidrees1840
      @davidrees1840 2 года назад +1

      @@TolkienLorePodcast If prophecies are truisms in Tolkien (like oaths are), then I don't see a difference between couldn't and wouldn't. When the witch king ran from the Northern king that challenged him, it may have been to avoid imprisonment, if we think he couldn't or wouldn't be killed by man/a man ("man" could mean that he could be killed by anything other than humans). I think the 'bit of himself in each ring' idea, though not something Tolkien wrote, sets a potential limit/cost to the creation of multiple rings, makes them evil, makes them precious, and explains why Sauron looked for the other rings as well as the main one. This could be RoP new lore built upon existing lore, eg.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +1

      Saying he can’t be killed by a man implies men are incapable, which isn’t the case. There’s nothing about being a man that makes it to where you can’t kill him, like having a Y chromosome somehow blocks you, it’s that he just won’t die by the hand of a man as foreseen by Glorfindel. And that’s why he ran-Glorfindel hadn’t uttered that prophecy so that couldn’t have been a known thing and thus he had no reason to think Earnur couldn’t kill him. As for the rings, there’s no need to assume that to make them evil and precious-that’s the case regardless.

    • @davidrees1840
      @davidrees1840 2 года назад

      @@TolkienLorePodcast Ah, ok for the prophecy timeline. The rings are presumed to be evil only if Sauron added something special, right? I mean, the stuff he made in Numenor is not neccessarily imbued with any powers for good or evil. If destroying the One Ring destroys Sauron (because it contains a large part of his soul or power?), then wouldn't the lesser rings do the same to a lesser extent? This could be considered a logical extrapolation of what made the rings evil. I don't feel the books need this sort of 'filling in the corners' to be complete, but RoP does, so it needs to flow from LoTR to RoP without contradiction, at a minimum.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +1

      No, Sauron doesn’t need to “add something special.” Elrond focuses on the fact that he “never touched” the three, not that he added none of his spirit to them. We don’t know exactly what that implies but he put his own power into the One to enable him to control the others. Obviously that wouldn’t be necessary for the others since they’re not controlling other rings.

  • @zombie3slayr606
    @zombie3slayr606 2 года назад

    Mae Govannan...so on subject of the dwarrow wight, oathbreakers and other spirits in lotr do they exist as the same type of ghost/spirit? Or are they different kinds ?

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад

      The barrow wights seem to have been evil spirits sent to inhabit the graves, not the ghosts of the dead men, but where those evil spirits came from is a bit of a mystery.

    • @zombie3slayr606
      @zombie3slayr606 2 года назад

      Didnt the witch king revive a dead body in a war against arnor and thats the barrow wight? If so that makes a bit of sense why the oathbreakers are different as they were cursed by sauron. I.e. they have different origins so if there ghostsly forms are different that makes sense.and wow youre fast thank you

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +1

      It doesn’t say he revived a dead body. I think Bombadil says spirits came and awakened old bones or something to that effect, which may be what you’re thinking of.

    • @zombie3slayr606
      @zombie3slayr606 2 года назад

      @@TolkienLorePodcast ok yes thats right i checked on nerd of the rings video he says spirits from angmar reanimated dead dunedain bodies

  • @nj1255
    @nj1255 2 года назад +1

    Didn't Celebrimbor himself give the seven rings to the dwarves for "safe-keeping"? From the LOTR wiki: _"He sent the three rings away for safekeeping: Vilya and Narya to Gil-galad in Lindon; and Nenya to Galadriel in Lórien. Celebrimbor also sent the mightiest of the seven to Durin III of Khazad-dûm."_

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +1

      Well that only accounts for one of the Seven. Sauron got the others. And of course there are texts saying or implying he got all seven so it kind of depends on which stage of writing he was in.

    • @nj1255
      @nj1255 2 года назад

      @@TolkienLorePodcast Ah, I see. I didn't read that correctly. Thanks for clarifying!

  • @hendrikm9569
    @hendrikm9569 2 года назад +1

    If I remember correctly, it says, that by turning Middle Earth into his own "ring" Morgoth lost quite some of his power by spreading it out, than maybe more ringwraiths would also make the ringwraiths weaker?

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад

      But that wouldn’t be the Ringwraiths expending their own power the way Morgoth did, so that’s not a good analogy.

    • @hendrikm9569
      @hendrikm9569 2 года назад +2

      But Sauron would stretch his power, and if Sauron powers the ringwraiths, than creating more ringwraiths would indirectly draw power from the existing wraiths, wouldn't it? In Marketterms it would reduce supply while raising demand.
      And even if it wouldn't result in weaker wraiths, it might be, that supporting more wraiths would be to much for Sauron, or at least for him without the ring. Probably not enough, to destroy Sauron, but maybe to much to be a worthy investment.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад

      It might weaken Sauron, but I think not, because the wraith-making and enslaving capacities of the rings is already inherent in the rings themselves. I don’t think it requires any additional power to make that happen,

  • @jeremiahkivi4256
    @jeremiahkivi4256 2 года назад +2

    I always assumed they had the rings. Surely they had more power as wraiths than they did in life, but the rings would still give them more power than just being wraiths.

    • @mckorr2116
      @mckorr2116 2 года назад +1

      This. The Nazgul were wearing their rings, it's what makes them Ring Wraiths. And they probably haven't been able to take them off since forever. You'd have to somehow kill a Nazgul to recover his ring and make a new wraith.

    • @jeremiahkivi4256
      @jeremiahkivi4256 2 года назад +1

      @@mckorr2116 I imagine they could take them off while they were still human and didn't need them to sustain themselves. Once they got to a certain point though, there was no turning back.

  • @FirstArchon
    @FirstArchon Год назад +1

    i thought that because sauron did not have the one. he could not control the 9. he took the rings from the 9 to control them via their rings.

  • @Justice89D
    @Justice89D 2 года назад

    Love your content.

  • @alexschmollinger6576
    @alexschmollinger6576 2 года назад

    I also love the Nazgul Screem Because the Nazgul Screem is Awesome And Scary And I heard the Nazgul Breath was Venomous

  • @Grubnar
    @Grubnar 2 года назад +1

    An obvious question, not brought up, is who would he even give the rings to, if he could do it?

  • @robinthehammer6828
    @robinthehammer6828 2 года назад +1

    Sauron distributed the rings solely to enslave the kings of men and dwarves. It doesn’t matter if the wraiths wear them or not, Sauron holds the rings because he holds their souls.

  • @wheatgrowssweet
    @wheatgrowssweet 2 года назад +1

    Do you think the magical abilities that Gandalf and Saruman use are also not related to their natures as maiar but because of their study of magic and sorcery? Opening the gates of Minas Tirith seems similar to a "word of command."

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +3

      The wizards have power as Maiar. Gandalf probably has some added by Narya. Saruman is an odd case because he might have made his own ring and also seems to be technology-oriented. But I don’t think the switch King can speak a “Word of Command” whatever that is; I suspect that’s something only Ainur can do.

    • @MarcRitzMD
      @MarcRitzMD 2 года назад +3

      @@TolkienLorePodcast the ringwraiths/Witch-King perform magic often in the Lord of the Rings. They ignite and shatter Frodo's sword, they weaken the Gate of Minas Tirith, they inflict cursed wounds to people like Faramir.
      - At the Door of Moria, we have Gandalf referring to spells that can open doors in Elvish, human and orcish tongues. I will quote it at the end. The implication being that it's these people who performed spells and they are in the form of words-of-command.
      - Elves perform so much magic without any Rings of Power
      - Finrod and Sauron have a magical song battle
      - They create all kinds of magical artifacts like the Silmaril, Palantiri, weapon enchantments, Phial of Galadriel
      - Aragorn and the Kings of Numenor were known magic healers
      - Isildur cursed the Men of Dunharrow
      - Numenoreans created the magical blades of the Hobbits that could harm the witch-king
      - Sorcerers (who were not the Istari) were mentioned frequently. The Witch-King was referred as such before he became a Nazgul "A great king and sorcerer he was of old". The Necromancer of Dol-Guldur was believed to be Human, not Sauron or an Ainu, I believe but that is from vague memory
      - We have the Mouth of Sauron, a Black Numenorean who was taught sorcery but didn't have any Ring (presumably)
      "entered the service of the Dark Tower when it first rose again, and because of his cunning he grew ever higher in the Lord’s favour; and he learned great sorcery, and knew much of the mind of Sauron; and he was more cruel than any Orc"
      - This is written of Queen Beruthiel and her cats “read their memories, setting them to discover all the dark secrets of Gondor, so that she knew those things ‘that men wish most to keep hidden’, setting the white cat to spy upon the black, and tormenting them.”
      - We have this very clear-cut quote about Beorn "Though a skin-changer and no doubt a bit of a magician, Beorn was a Man"
      - In the Hobbit, the Dwarves actively put spells on their treasure
      'I once knew every spell in all the tongues of Elves or Men or Orcs that was ever used for such a purpose. I can still remember ten score of them without searching in my mind. But only a few trials, I think, will be needed; and I shall not have to call on Gimli for words of the secret dwarf-tongue that they teach to none. The opening words were Elvish, like the writing on the arch: that seems certain.'

  • @mikeburke1881
    @mikeburke1881 2 года назад +5

    It is stated in Tolkien's writings that Sauron left the One Ring behind in Barud-dur when he left Middle-Earth to go to Numenor.

    • @MerkhVision
      @MerkhVision Год назад

      Oh jeez that was very smart of him to do that lol. Was fortunate for him that it didn’t get destroyed along with his fair form!

  • @gm2407
    @gm2407 2 года назад

    Were the Ring Wraiths present at the siege of Mordor when Gil-Galad and Erendil battled Sauron?

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад

      I don’t think anything is stated one way or the other in Tolkien’s writings.

  • @DrewLSsix
    @DrewLSsix 2 года назад +1

    It's possibly also due to a lack of meaningful prospects, the wraiths weren't just any random hobos, they were men of power already. Who would Sauron ensnare at the end of the 3rd age? Instead of a powerful witch king or a long lived early man he would have some short lived powerless idiot in his thrall..... doesn't seem worth it.

  • @stevemonkey6666
    @stevemonkey6666 2 года назад +1

    At one point the Nazgul demand that Frodo gives them the ring. I wonder if they know Frodo has the one ring or that he just h as something that their master wants. Would Sauron trust them with the knowledge of what Frodo is actually carrying? And if one of the Nazgul carries the ring to Morfor could he willingly give it up to Sauron....?

    • @LeHobbitFan
      @LeHobbitFan 2 года назад +6

      The Nazgûl know what Frodo's ring is. They can detect the One Ring from a distance, and it calls to them. But, since they also are completely under Sauron's dominion, they couldn't keep the Ring for themselves even if they wanted to.

    • @Enerdhil
      @Enerdhil 2 года назад +3

      The Nazgul are the only ones Sauron can completely trust with his Ring. As long as he has theirs, their wills are in complete subjugation to his.

  • @fnamelname9077
    @fnamelname9077 2 года назад

    Are you sure that it isn't a question of being used at a distance? Sauron leaves the world after the One Ring is destroyed. Is it possible it's more a question of *how much* one can use a ring for, from a distance? Perhaps Sauron is using the ring as much as he can, without holding it.

  • @juckoosaurus
    @juckoosaurus 2 года назад

    Can you a video on Galadriel

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +1

      I actually did one way back: ruclips.net/video/X8c33_qTQ_E/видео.html

  • @LeHobbitFan
    @LeHobbitFan 2 года назад +1

    I don't think it makes any sense for Sauron to give the Nine Rings to other people. It always seemed to me that he controlled the Wraiths through their rings, and giving them away would sever that connection.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад

      What’s the evidence for that though? They’re already enslaved to his will.

    • @LeHobbitFan
      @LeHobbitFan 2 года назад +1

      @@TolkienLorePodcast Admittedly we don't have much, but it's usually said Sauron controleld them through the nine rings. In letter 246 :
      "Sauron, who still through their nine rings
      (which he held) had primary control of their wills."
      It's not much, and it doesn't rule out your theory... but it seems to imply there's a direct connection between each ring and its corresponding wraith.

  • @BarsimonR
    @BarsimonR 2 года назад +1

    I always thought Sauron held the nine to maintain full control of the Nazgul
    He would have let them hold them if he held the One

    • @MerkhVision
      @MerkhVision Год назад +1

      That’s a really great point.

  • @yeahjustme3680
    @yeahjustme3680 2 года назад

    Sauron did offer three of the dwarven rings to the dwarves for information on the Shire, no ? So, if he could or was planning to use the 9 rings, why were they not offered to anyone ? I do believe it is not possible to use the 9 on anyone, since each Nazghul is still tied and shackled by his ring (are we even certain there were no female Nazghul ?). If another person had been given a ring, the original wearer might have been just dead.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад

      He offered them rings but it’s not explicit that they were the same ones given to Dwarves before, not that he would have given them.

  • @Enerdhil
    @Enerdhil 2 года назад +1

    Your explanations always make sense to me, but then I usually start thinking about certain things you say and that often leads me down the rabbit hole, so to say. The Gift of Men was what I was thinking about today. Tolkien explains countless times throughout the Legendarium that the gift of Men can not be denied. So how do you explain that Sauron with the Nazgul and Isildur with the Oath Breakers and maybe the Witch King with the Barrow Wights all can keep the fëar of those that they curse or desire to use for evil purposes. How can someone like Namo who wanted to keep Beren's fëa from flying off to wherever couldn't do it and needed Manwë to get permission from Eru Iluvatar in order to change the natural course of Beren and Luthien's fëar, YET those using evil powers were able to keep the fëar locked to Middle Earth, defying the Gift of Men. It is a plot hole in my mind at least because it can't explained unless you tell me we don't know where Men's fëar go after death, but Tolkien clearly said they went to Mandos for a short time and then somewhere else after that and only Eru knows where that would be.

    • @LeHobbitFan
      @LeHobbitFan 2 года назад +1

      My guess is that, ultimately, the Gift of Men is never denied. Even Beren eventually died, along with Lúthien. Same goes for the Oathbreakers and the Nazgûl.
      So, it seems there are ways to interfere with the surrender of the fëa to Mandos (and later to Erú), but never forever.

    • @Enerdhil
      @Enerdhil 2 года назад +1

      @@LeHobbitFan
      Well, the Oath Breakers we're released from their curse when their Oaths were fulfilled and the fëar of the Nazgul were released when Sauron's Ring was destroyed. That means that they could have been locked into wraith form for ever had those events not happened. My point is that Sauron and Isildur shouldn't be able to do what they did in the first place. It shows that Sauron has power over that which Namo does not.

    • @istari0
      @istari0 2 года назад

      @@Enerdhil I would say that it showed Sauron could delay matters but not permanently deny it. Even the 4000+ years the Nazgûl may very well simply not been a long enough time for the clock to run out and their spirits to go to Mandos.

    • @LeHobbitFan
      @LeHobbitFan 2 года назад +2

      @@Enerdhil yet neither Sauron nor Isildur kept the undead in the halls of Mandos indefinitely, but in Middle-earth. This seems to imply they remain in an in-between state, neither alive nor truly dead. And as long as they remain so, they aren't under Namo's "jurisdiction" yet, so to speak.
      Besides, had they remained trapped in Middle-earth, by oath or by curse, they would still have been released at the end of Arda.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад +3

      There’s probably an element of fate here-“had those events not happened” isn’t an option really on the table, at least in the sense that one way or the other the Dead Men would get the opportunity to fight and the Ring would eventually be destroyed. As for the barrow wights, Corey Olsen’s theory is that they are not the fear of Men but evil Maiar or the like, so they aren’t breaking the rule in the first place. I don’t remember his exact reasoning now but I remember thinking he was probably right.

  • @axdntprn
    @axdntprn 2 года назад +1

    Sorry I'm late. And kind of off video topic. I think a key point to remember is the theme of preserving magic in the mortal realm as it decays into the mundane. Sauron as a fallen maiar is losing power just like the elves, think of it as a mana pool with no regen. Rather than it all leaking away, they bind into items of static power level to keep the magic forever. The one ring, the power of a maiar (I believe sauron originally worked under aule the maker?) Was the keystone for the whole array, as maiar alone of the other beings on/in middle earth have some limited authority over it to influence its "laws". When the one ring is destroyed, the line of world law that states "these rings are magical" disappears, going back to what the world should be at that point. Magicless. It's a bit of word salad, sorry hope my point got across.

  • @alexschmollinger6576
    @alexschmollinger6576 2 года назад

    I love the Nazgul in the Lord of the Rings Movie 🎬

  • @kenntakac5034
    @kenntakac5034 2 года назад

    Bud don´t forget that Galadriel destroyed the walls of Dol Guldur with the power of her ring, which shows that the rings posses other great powers in addition to their "intedted" ones...

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад

      No, her ring would have lost its power by then because the One had been destroyed.

    • @kenntakac5034
      @kenntakac5034 2 года назад

      @@TolkienLorePodcast from my understanding elven rings gradually lose power, thus couple of days after the one ring was destroyed, they were still super powerfull.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад

      What makes you think that?

    • @kenntakac5034
      @kenntakac5034 2 года назад

      @@TolkienLorePodcast . Ending of LOTR. But Tolkien never made a final word upon it or explain it properly, so we can all just speculate.It just makes more sense to me that the power faded away slowly rather than disapeared immidiately after the one fell. JRRT kept lots of things openfor our imagination.

  • @windsaw151
    @windsaw151 2 года назад +1

    You phrased it a bit unfortunately when you said "nobody can use them until the original user dies", because yes, when you phrase it like that, it sounds like plothole fixing.
    Personally I have always believed that the bond between the One and the Nine was bidirectional: The Nazgul being Nazgul was directly tied to the existence of the One, we know that for a fact. If one of the Nine was given to another human, the original bond might be broken. Also, for better of worse, it seems that in addition of containing a lot of Sauron's power, the One seemed to distribute that power around. Creating more and more Nazgul might weaken Sauron further, which he would be reluctant to do.
    I don't think this explanation is bad at all. My problem with it is that it sounds too much like a modern RPG and that is not a way of thinking Tolkien followed.
    On the other hand it would also explain well why he didn't give any of the recovered Seven.
    One more theory I always had: For a long time I was under the impression that one reason why Sauron wanted to regain the One was because he could afterwards directly control the Nazgul without having to rely on messengers. That he had to do exactly that cost him dearly in the books. But I am no longer sure where I got this theory, if it was based on anything I read or I just made it up decades ago. Anyway: I thought this ring-to-ring influence, that would grant him direct control over the Nazgul, could only work if there is an actual ring to communicate with. Which would prohibit more Nazgul than 9. (or 12, if you count the remaining of the Seven, should he have given them out again)
    Anyway, there are tons of ways to explain why Sauron did not give the Nine away again.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад

      Well that’s only a hypothetical, as I admit in the video.

  • @TheMentalblockrock
    @TheMentalblockrock Год назад

    Was Sauron wearing the nine rings on his remaining nine fingers????

  • @pingoblasher2213
    @pingoblasher2213 2 года назад

    It was only 550 years from SA 1701 -Saurons retreat from eregion with the rings to 2252 - first sighting of the Nazgul it was only after 1701 that he started distributing the rings. Therefore it takes as a maximum 550 years to make a Nazgul when Sauron has the one ring.
    Sauron has te physical body of the necromancer by TA 1000, therefore he has the subsequent 2000 years to distribute the rings to make more Nazgul. Does it takes 4x longer without the one ring? You need to talk in numbers man

  • @Yuuzhanvongg
    @Yuuzhanvongg 2 года назад

    Where are the podcasts my lord of the lore

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад

      Spotify, Anchor, Google, Apple, and some others. Just search Tolkien Lore in your podcatcher and if it’s there you’ll find it.

  • @philipwong9557
    @philipwong9557 2 года назад

    The rings were fashioned, in a sense, for the races. It is implied that the Eldar Elves wanted rings for preservation, the Dwarves to help them seek riches and for Man to bring wisdom and power to rule. Sauron is the ultimate corruptor and he imbues this corruption. So the dwarven rings, apart from aiding in their search enhances their greed. For men, the rings corrupted them to seek and hold on to power and everlasting life. The ruler of dwarves and men weren't stupid so there was obviously some benefit to the rings that made them attractive. That would likely be the original gifts imbued into them by the Elves which Sauron subtly corrupted.

    • @chriss3276
      @chriss3276 2 года назад

      Actually the Rings were all originally made for use by Elves. They were only given to other races after Sauron's plan to control the Elves via the Rings failed.

  • @brandonluker3660
    @brandonluker3660 2 года назад

    Mae govannen!

  • @Prometheus4096
    @Prometheus4096 2 года назад

    The explanation that there were 9 ring wraiths because Sauron didn't have time to create more doesn't make logical sense. So by coincidence he had exactly time to make 9? Which was exactly equal to the number of rings for men? Why didn't time limit him to 8 or 10? One ring only controls 1 person.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад

      That’s what makes it not a coincidence-he gave out 9 rings that got him 9 wraiths. Why is that so strange?

    • @Prometheus4096
      @Prometheus4096 2 года назад

      @@TolkienLorePodcast Because it is limited by the amount of rings, not the time. Unless of course the amount of rings is also limited by time plus they can't be reused. There are no unused rings or double used rings. So we have 9 ringwraiths because there were 9 rings. Not because there was only time for 9 ringwraiths.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад

      But why wouldn’t he be able to reuse them?

    • @Prometheus4096
      @Prometheus4096 2 года назад

      @@TolkienLorePodcast He didn't. It is not like there was 2 rings for men, right?
      Are you following? The number of rings is equal to the number of wraiths. That is either a pure coincidence, and there could have been 8 wraiths and 9 rings, or 10 wraiths and 9 rings. Or the reason the rings and wraiths match is because 1 ring can only make exactly 1 wraith.
      Anyway, they are both 9 for literary reasons foremost. 3, 7, 9 all special numbers. A writer i never going to write a story where the numbers are clumsy because Sauron ran out of time. That's not elegant.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад

      Your argument (if we want to call it that) is really just an assumption that the “coincidence” means something it doesn’t actually imply. Have you considered that it makes perfect sense that he could give out nine to make nine wraiths and then not have time to hand them out to nine more?

  • @pikewerfer
    @pikewerfer 2 года назад

    I disagree with quite a few things here. Where does it say that the Nine do not have their rings? When Gandalf says that Sauron has them, I do not believe he meant that literally. He meant that the Nazgûl have them, and Sauron has them under his control (since no one has the ring to wrest them away from him). They have them. I also do not believe a Nazgûl, bound via his ring to the controller of the one ring, would tolerate/be able to tolerate his ring on someone else’s finger. Just like Sauron would never tolerate another to wear his ring, would a Nazgûl tolerate someone else wear his ring. I believe that theory is unthinkable. Imagine two Nazgûl created by the same ring. They would turn on each other, both trying to gain control of the one thing that binds them to the One. Sorry sir, I really like your videos. But here I just have to object.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад

      Letter 246: “Sauron, who still through their nine rings (which he held) had primary control of their wills.”

    • @pikewerfer
      @pikewerfer 2 года назад

      @@TolkienLorePodcast "held" I would interpret here as "controlled". Sauron could not actually wear rings, and I believe Tolkien would have used "wore" or (if he physically had them and did not/could not wear them) "possessed". Tolkien was very precise with words, and to hold sway over something does not necessary mean you directly have it, but very much also can mean that you hold dominion over it. I just read it again, and still cannot agree to the interpretation that the Wraiths would not have their rings on their undead fingers. Also remember - having a ring is not the only thing that can turn you into a wraith. The Morgul blade could also do such a thing. But you would be much weaker a wraith than the Nazgul. Because they were not only experienced in this form and were powerful sorcerers and warriors of their day - but also because they had the additional strength of their rings. At least that is how I interpret this.

    • @TolkienLorePodcast
      @TolkienLorePodcast  2 года назад

      I don’t think that’s the best interpretation here. For one thing, Tolkien specifically uses “control” to describe Sauron’s sway over their wills through the Rings. His use of “held” presumably doesn’t mean the same thing. Second, why would he need to say that Sauron controlled the nine versus actually possessing them when that’s implied by the rest of the statement? No, I think the most plausible view here is that he literally holds/possesses them.

  • @adriansmith3427
    @adriansmith3427 2 года назад

    The reason that he doesn't use the rings to create more ring wraiths, could be because they need to be kings!

  • @spacemissing
    @spacemissing 2 года назад

    Too many speculations spoil the fantasy.

  • @BanjoSick
    @BanjoSick 2 года назад +2

    LotR is not the Bible. Tolkien made mistakes here and there. It’s ok to admit that. You don’t have to construct the most elaborate head canon the defend the Professor.

    • @Enerdhil
      @Enerdhil 2 года назад +1

      Nothing wrong with covering all your bases as we say in a popular baseball idiom.

    • @TheDanEdwards
      @TheDanEdwards 2 года назад

      Suggesting that some of Tolkien's story ideas are contradictory or just half-baked seems to irritate some folk who have tried to make his works into a religion.
      There are many holes in Tolkien's published stories as well as the unpublished (in his lifetime) notes.
      LOTR (and supporting material) really is fantasy, entirely fabricated stories taking place in a non-real environment. The stories are interesting, sometimes with embedded homilies, but will fall apart if one picks at them with a modern, critical comb.

  • @kenhammscousin4716
    @kenhammscousin4716 2 года назад

    Bit of advice, you should do scripted content with still images. Seems like you go very off the cuff and it can make things disjointed or time is wasted with pointless musings

  • @dgalloway107
    @dgalloway107 2 года назад

    If the nazgul didnt wear the rings shouldnt they disperse or pass on? Like why are they still wraiths able to affect the physical world, without the rings? They should pass or be diminished beyond physicality right?