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I have experience with cleaning mechanical parts that had to be cleaned to a certain cleanliness. Using the ultrasonic sink was part of cleaning the parts. The water was always hot and we kept the parts in the ultrasonic sink for about 30 minutes. Also yes keep your hands out. It can mess your hands/ body parts up bad.
Not sure if anyone has said this yet or not but you could 3D print a mesh basket to place the polished rocks on which should eliminate potential scratches. Also, certain high frequencies can mess with BT, i used to TiG weld and it took some time to find BT earbuds that were not interrupted when welding.
A little late to the party:) If you are worried about setting your delicate zeolites on the bottom or in something hard. You can put them in a ziplock with water or whatever cleaning liquid you want and suspend it in the sonic cleaner. Bonus benefit is all the crud stays in the bag!!
Instead of plain water, I use Walmart's brand of blue window cleaner, with ammonia (Basically, Windex, but cheaper). I have the largest version of the exact machine you have in the video. It loosens the caked-in polish, while the sonic vibes pulverize it, and flushes it out of the cracks. Plus, you get a streak-free shine.
I used a sonicator to break down cells from marine organisms for my school's lab. I wouldn't at all doubt the possibility for them to cause capillary damage if you were to stick a finger in them. We also wore hearing protection using them since they can apparently cause hearing damage.
Hello, I used to work in a jewelry store and here's what I can share. 1. Get a unit with a built in heater. Without a heater, it will do you no good. No matter how hot your water is when you put it in, the water will always cool off and reduce your results. 2. We never used a basket. It"s provided to keep your hands out of the cleaning solution that is rinsed off after the unit has done it"s part. 3.All these units use specific cleaning solutions depending on what you are cleaning. Check out Ama..... for the different types of cleaning solutions. Some of them you may not want to use on some of your rocks or fossils as they may be softer and would be damaged by harsher cleanerrs. For your particular issue with the polishing paste, I would suggest you get the same cleaning solution that dentists put in their machines. Dentists do use paste type products for polishing and shaping teeth. This was a good idea, I liked the video.
Haven't used them for rocks, but have for removing carbon buildup and plasma residue from metals in laboratory equipment and polishing agents from epoxied samples. It doesn't totally solve the problem for baked on crud, and those parts still needed scrubbing periodically, so ultrasonic isn't necessarily a one-stop-shop. One thing I'm wondering is just how much of the leftover crud is actually crud vs minerals/precipitates. If your zeolites hold up to acid, then that could be useful. Ultrasonic + acid is great for cleaning glassware. Just use acid-filled beakers in the water rather than filling the tub. That or a little borax or dishwashing liquid as others have suggested to reduce water surface tension and let it invade smaller areas, possibly with a pre-soak. Oh, I just remembered we'd sometimes use methanol instead of water because methanol has a lower surface tension and will evaporate rather than need to be dried. Not letting polishing agents dry/set (as much as possible) before cleaning may help, too.
Cant say on a lot of what you asked, But I can say, you should use the water as hot as possible. Hotter water increases soluibilty of things. A good way to see this in action is to put a half pan of water on the stove and add 5 cups of sugar to it, at room temp you wont get all the sugar to dissolve, but when you turn on the heat and bring the water to over say 160F you can get most if not all of the sugar to dissolve into solution. In theory it should work the same in an ultrasonic cleaner.
I use a cleaner for motorcycle parts. Temp makes a big difference, also time. You can safely run the cleaner for longer stretches of time to get those tough areas. You can also switch mediums, try running warm vinegar or Oxalic acid.
We use an ultrasonic cleaner for our sterling silver pieces that we set fossil cabochons in. For us, the temperature of the solution is the biggest part in pulling the polishing gunk out of the cracks in twisted wire and other design elements. That said, we still have to take it and run the piece under hot tap water and do a fair bit of scrubbing with a toothbrush. Obviously not ideal for your zeolites, but another data point for your study! (We are also guilty of using the cheapo online sonic cleaner…) 😅
I use one for cleaning up my jewelry. I add a drop or two of Dawn dish washing soap. typically run it for about 15 minutes at a time. Also, there is a difference between the pink and white Cerium Oxide. The white is Optical grade and is used for polishing your glasses lens'. It's the only polish I use (except in the tumbler) for polishing my rocks. And yes, it gets into every crack and crevice there is.
I was a dental teck for 50yr the ultrasonic was my best friend to clean Polished crowns . Now I have one to clean rocks. Try using a tea strainer for small bites.
A couple of thoughts, Use some sort of surfactant. Those voids may trap air so maybe place specimen in face up (if able) to fill those voids and then invert. The cleaning energy doesn't transfer through air.
I’ve often wondered about the ultra sonic cleaner, so thank you for shedding some light on this subject. I have the textile and it does most of the work like you said. But there is always that yellow stuff that is really hard to get off.🤷🏼♀️
@@CurrentlyRockhounding I will be watching for sure! I was inspired by your video yesterday and cleaned specimens with a textile. Like you said, gets 90% off… plus a finger or two if not careful!🤣 I really want to get the rest off with out destroying my calcite crystals!
The electronic circuit which excites the ultrasonic transducer is probably putting out electromagnetic interference which is disrupting the blue tooth connection. I use a very cheap ultrasonic cleaner bought from Aldi and find that warm water (60 degrees C plus) and a drop of detergent for a minimum of 3 minutes each time (sometimes repeat cycles) gets the worse of the dirt out of crevices. Also seems to help lift rust staining on some samples. I tend to soak before hand but have had similar results without presoaking.
30+ years background in RF, my guess is the ultrasonic cleaner raised the noise floor, which would cause signal to noise ratio issues. Think of the background noise at the grass in your yard, and the signal you want to see as a weed sticking above the grass. Well when you raise the noise floor (grass) it makes it harder to see the signal (weed) you are looking for. My Background, I was awarded US Department of Commerce silver medal for my radio frequency antenna designs.
Also keep in mind they don’t have to be at the same frequency, all signals have harmonics that can cause issues with other frequencies if that signal noise is strong enough. Example you can prob relate to is listening to AM radio and driving under a power line. That is a signal to noise ratio issue. The noise floor is raised to a point where it gets hard to see the signal. Grass is almost as tall as the weed.
40 years in electronic engineering. I concur. It is an EMI (electro-magnetic interference) issue. I technically support a small business that provides LED outdoor lighting equipment. We occasionally have issues where the LED bulbs will interfere with garage door remotes.
Not used it for rocks, but ultrasonic cleaning is important for laboratory parts. We'd use it to clean carbon from metal and plasma residue from nickel alloys. However, it isn't a cure-all. Still had to scrub parts periodically because, as you saw, it only gets the loose stuff, and residue would build up. One thing I'm wondering is just how much of what's left in some of the mineral specimens is "dirt" vs other minerals? If your zeolites hold up to acid, you could try that. Works great for cleaning glass parts. My advice there would be to use a small acid filled jar/beaker in the water rather than filling the tub.
I have that exact cleaner and I usually set the water temp to 50, use a few drops of dawn dish soap in the water (breaking any surface tension), and I'll do 5-10 minutes at a time and check whatever specimens I've put in. If they need more, I put them in again until I'm satisfied. Some rocks/crystals don't like a sudden temperature change, so I'll let them warm up with the water if it's a concern. Nothing has broken yet. I'd like to learn about different cleaning solutions from others and what works best for different applications.
Do you often see a difference going longer? It seems like everything I put in for about 3-5 minutes gets everything off in that amount of time and I don't see a whole lot more happening after that.
@@CurrentlyRockhounding I've found that clay seems to need a few rounds, but most everything else takes one. You're probably right that I could use a shorter time. I just turn it on and go do something else because the sound is pretty irritating to my ears.
I noticed Amazon sells different cleaners to put in the machine to clean that item ( jewelry, car parts etc) maybe theres something that can be added for rocks. I noticed in the comments section of the jewelry cleaner it says rhodium will be damaged if left in it and turquoise could break apart if left in it. I was just thinking of buying one too so your video is perfect timing for me!
I hand load rifle cartridges and bought a 4 Liter UC. Sporting Good stores sell UC additives to improve the cleaning efficiency, it seems to make a difference.
I'm a real rockhounding rookie and I thought about the ultrasonic and never heard of it until you made this video I really think the hotter water will help maybe some type of cleaner a few drops of Simple Green maybe super clean I wash my rocks and hot soapy water between tumbling stages because I'm too lazy to brush them and pick them with needles and I have pretty good results !
We use ours for jewelery. I think the plastic tray may dampening the ultrasonics. We do not use the metal basket ours came with out, but put our items directly on the metal pan. It seems to work the best for us. There are ultrasonic cleaning liquids that came with ours, but they just seem to be a surfactant. The only time we do not use the surfactant is with opals, they are very hydrophilic so we dont want the water to be carrier for a contaminant. With small cracks it would seem to me cold water would cause the stone to contract and thus make the crack bigger. This it in my head and no basis of fact. If there are no books, I see an opportinity for you using photomicrographs as examples. Have fun and keep the goodness coming. One more thing the motors typically produce a large spectrum of electronic noise that is small and diminish with distance. You could build a faraday cage around it, but I wouldn't think it was worth it. Cheers!
A few months ago, I didn't have iron out on hand after a dig and like you was curious if this method would work. So, I decided to tried it on a few geode pieces I found. I was a bit worried if the cavitation would loosen or break apart the crystals but it held together and it cleaned up rather nicely. I tried mine in a 20% vinegar solution to also get the staining off and it came out very clean. My ultrasonic is very small so I ran 30 minutes on one side, flipped and another 30 and I had the heat on.
Kinda goes without saying, but be sure you're in a well ventilated area using anything other than water using the heating option and be careful about using anything flammable like a solvent
Awesome info! I'm still a novice despite the fact that I've been rockhounding since I started walking. I say that because I never thought much about identifying my finds. Mostly I got home exhausted from a day out so I would just toss them into a box, or my garage, or in my garden. Eventually, I would soak and scrub them and assault them with my rock hammers at which point a substantial number earned a place inside. But, it was all 'gut' for me. On retiring, my interest in exploring and learning to identify my 'finds' became vivid. Now, I'm planning to move down to Colorado to be near my son. (OH! How I'll miss my Montana!) So, I've been months gathering rocks from all over my house and everywhere else, which includes tearing through my garden to find what I tossed aside. Well!! I can't take all these thousands & thousands of pounds with me! So, my quest to identify (somewhat) what's worth keeping means getting them clean. That led me to learn about the use of muriatic acid. I've gone through MANY gallons. Oh, dear! I've destroyed a few beautiful samples! Thanks to you, I've learned another way! I've heard of ultrasonic cleaners but never thought of using them to clean rocks. I think I need a BIG one! My thanks to you and to all commenters!
heat will help when using a ultrasonic cleaner. Keep in mind my only working knowledge of an ultrasonic cleaners is with glasses, obviously you can't heat water up too much when it comes to cleaning lenses, you risk the chance of damaging certain coatings. But the warmer the water the faster the grime will roll off and the longer the better. Ultrasonic cleanser solution does help but not sure how that would react with some minerals? I've left a set of glasses sit in an ultrasonic cleaner for an hour before and when I came back there was still little clouds of gunk coming out of nooks and crannies (really gnarly glasses worn by a 3 pack a day smoker). I don't think it matters if its face up or down as long as it's in the center of the cleaner and covered by water it should be bringing that stuff out.
Hi Jared, some interesting info in your video, like most of us I’ve heard of these ultrasonic cleaners, mainly to do with the fields of medical & jewellery and to a lesser extent lapidary. Interesting video and I’ve had a quick peak at some of the other comments. It looks like they have a place in the shop and some additional methods to get the best out of them. Another interesting video to keep us informed, 👍. Keep Safe & Keep Rockin
I need one of those. That definitely takes the effort out of the scrubbing which is time consuming. I'm impressed how well it did with such short runs. Can to imagine 30 mins. I wonder if heater warms the crystals enough to expand a tiny bit allowing the bond between "gunk" and itself to break free? This was a great video for anyone interested in getting clean display pieces CLEANER. 👍
Some sort of wetting agent may help. I'm not sure if you can use soap in the machine, but there are many things other than traditional soap that would "make water wetter"
I think I remember people saying to add borax. It might not be an accurate recollection. I don’t have one yet so it’s just a filed memory, not something I have tried. Maybe it reduces the water’s surface tension or something? Maybe it does nothing.
I use a small ultrasonic cleaner for removing dirt and stuff off of my Druzy Quartz , but I just do surface cleaning with it. However when I was a Pawn Broker way back when , we used a large Ultrasonic cleaner for jewelry and what not, we would use a detergent made for the cleaner , it SHOULD NOT hurt any rocks you are cleaning as we used it on all sorts of mineral settings including turquoise.... Now about it popping capillaries.. that's the first I have heard of that, perhaps some super sized industrial model , but I had, had my fingers in it lots of times with out issue , it will clean your fingernails nicely though.
Another great testing of equipment video. I've used my ultra sonic cleaner to remove polish from pitted tumbled rocks and it kind of worked. I do use the heat feature at about 120 degrees. Maybe getting them in there immediately after taking them out of polish would work better. The one thing I'd say I had the best results with are crystal clusters. However, I had to use a toothbrush with soapy water to get the really stubborn gunk out. My final thoughts on the machine are, if you use a little dish soap in the water it cleans much better, and they work super great on cleaning polished rocks that have been sitting around collecting dust, works perfect for that. They clean some things better than others.
I love using my ultrasonic cleaner for cleaning druzy quartz , Mine is FAR from as nice as yours but I am also just removing the surface material and not getting into the ultra fine cracks.. Now when I was a Pawn broker back in the day, we would use a detergent in our big ultrasonic cleaner for cleaning up rings and other jewelry, I am not sure what it would do to the rocks but it would clean all the "YEEECH" out of rings and what not ..... also the first I have heard about it popping the capillaries in your fingers ( don't believe that's true as many times as I have had my fingers in one that's running ..... It will clean your fingernails nicely though )
The heat function would probably be more necessary for jewelry with oils in it. More time and/or a presoak would probably help with the more stubborn particles. Some sort of surfactant might help too.
That looks like just like (but with a smaller tub size) the one my dad uses to clean his CPAP. Also used the heat to try and suved in it. (Mostly worked lol) My friend uses a soft electric toothbrush with hers for cleaning jewelry I wonder if that would make a difference for the crystals. I would try running the rock longer and maybe bring the temps up. I wonder it it would break down softer rocks or minerals or cause micro fractures.
Excellent topic!! The "sonic" as I call it, method is effective, but you'll be doing this repetitively... I'm an Ultrasonic Pro so to speak as I'm a Sterile Processing Tech in the med field. Hoping I don't get fired for saying this but I have tried out our huge Sonic when I was on call with various sized batches of my Lake Superior Agate's and other geodes. (Yes, this is all without surgical instruments and the machine was properly disinfected before my rocks!) It works, but unless you're looking for a microfilm type deposit to be eliminated from your rocks, which is what an ultrasonic is designed to do, you're probably not going to get the results from any sort of similar machine that you're looking for. I've done this about 30 times in the past 2 years. Hand cleaning/ scrubbing is the way to go. 😁🍻🤟
Bluetooth frequency is about 2.5 ghz that ultrasonic cleaner is probably what amateur radio operators refer to as dirty and has some leakage off of the electronic caps from the circuit boards,, usually the cheaper the quality the dirtier the signal coming off said object.
Ultrasonic cleaners use piezoelectric effects of crystals to vibrate… I wonder if the radio waves that generate Bluetooth is also caused by crystals I wonder if there is interference in that way
Personally I think you are on the right track, the temperature might be key in turning the paste like oxide to a liquid easier. As many stated detergent and extending the time, I would imagine could go quite a ways too. As for your electronics, all information is transferred through vibrations, frequency is just limits set on a wave. Before shielded cables if wires crossed you could pick up interference, in the old day if a lamp power cord was too close to your phone cord, you could get major static. Same is true with magnets, too close would distort the transmission. In conclusion it's magics, who really knows.
Have you continued to use the ultrasonic cleaner to get embedded grit out of rocks? If so, what additive are you adding to the water? Borax? Do you still need to use a toothbrush also?
Bluetooth interference... I have experience with this. Mainly when the microwave is running... Same deal: within a couple of feet, it freaks out. I suspect it has something to do with frequency interference via the wavelength a microwave (or in your case the ultrasonic cleaner) or something within it operates at... May also interfere with WiFi, as is my experience with the microwave.
Interesting video! I'd like to see a follow up video if you learn anything new about it. I've been cleaning rocks basically by hand for 10 years and I'm tired of it. You seem kinda picky though, and might cringe at what I consider clean. Lol. But I also don't have a following to see my rocks like you do. Thank you for your videos.
So sorry for the delay in the response, for some reason stupid RUclips thought this was a spam comment. I do plan on doing some future follow ups with this. I guess I am being a little picky with it but I really want them to be super clean!
Also ultrasonic cleaners won't damage your hands if you just reach in and grab a specimen, I don't know about leaving your hand in there but I can confirm my capillaries have not burst 😉
My late father lost a few of his fingernails from putting his fingers/hands into his Ultra Sonic cleaner all the time whilst it was running. (Rock Cleaning)
Great video! I have no idea why the ultrasonic cleaner would have a reaction with your blue tooth. That is weird! My roommate is a computer wiz and has a genius iq, so i will ask him about it when he gets home from work. As for the ultra sonic cleaner. I never used one on my rocks, but was in optics for 20+ years, and every optical shop has an ultrasonic cleaner fpr cleaning the gunky buildup on eyeglasses. We used to use windex in it and we would run it for 10+ minutes in some cases. And just the friction of the solution and the glasses, would cause the water to heat up. Ours didnt have a heater on it, but it would heat the water up by the time we removed the glasses. Not hot, but warm. I dont know if that helps or not. I will comment again if i get any answer about the interference to the blue tooth! Thanks for sharing!
Many of these comments that were left 9 days ago at this point are just now showing up in my feed since RUclips comments were glitching out on this day.
The Action Lab explains how these type of cleaners work. ruclips.net/video/uRmoPc7l9qg/видео.html As far as the Bluetooth interference, it's the high frequency electronics creating a radio wave.
Put a drop of detergent in warm water for your ultrasonic cleaner and shld work better for you… you’ll see a stream of bubbles and dirt coming from objects being cleaned
@@CurrentlyRockhounding yes I agree but when I heard it I thought of the comic Brian Holtzman who always yells in his video big engine every time he hears one
I think a specimen with lots of those micro fissures would be interesting packed with color-dyed or UV luminescent compounds; similar to iodine stain in microscopy or color-enhanced imagery. You'd actually need this type of cleaning before you could pack those cavities. I think it would be really cool for illustrating that quality in certain specimens. Just a thought.
@@CurrentlyRockhoundingThis is a heckin long comment, but maybe theres something useful in it all. I did some recent looking, and you should get more power out of the ultrasonic by using saline solution. Sound transmits at higher speed through salt water than fresh. Pure water also is naturally densest at around 40°F, so if you simmer a brine of distilled water and pickling salt until it stops dissolving and then chill it you'll get the highest sonic cavitation for your money. Boiling it will produce the greatest saturation (full supersaturation), but once you chill it and put it in the supersonic, the extreme agitation will likely cause the salt to precipitate and fall out of solution all at once. The worst that'll happen is you'll get salt coating the tank, but you absolutely must seal your specimens in a baggy or jar(with a strong gasket like a canning jar) of solvent regardless. For solvent there are a lot of options, but kerosene and mineral spirits are one step further up as long as you keep them away from flame and have a fire extinguisher and use canning jars. I know for a fact that strait rubbing alcohol is great If you can't be bothered though, just fill a zippered bag with distilled water and evacuate most of the air so it sits in the saline bath better. - As far as the stain/indicator, you would probably have the best luck with epoxy resin, as you can add both dyes and luminescent additives. Clear varieties with low viscosity and longer set times should be most suitable, and you could mask portions with plastic wraps/bags and some tape if you dont want to goop up the exterior... A significant consideration to add is that you're going to get the best results with epoxy from using a vacuum chamber to pull the bubbles from the epoxy after combining the agents and also it will greatly help facilitate the penetration into the cavities. - Another separate thing that might be interesting is a weirdo thing called the Clerici solution or else alternatives like sodium polytungstate which are hyper-dense solutes that can be calibrated to float out desireable minerals including gemstones and diamonds, since it can create solutions 4x denser than pure water. They're expensive and poisonous, but just a little food for thought in case you sift smaller minerals. I learned a bit while researching this stuff, so I figured I'd pass it on. Very nice collection you've got though. We're in very strange days now that witches/new-age religion practitioners are entering mineral hobbyism, but I've got about a hundred absolutely random rocks just because a like them. One of my greatest goals in life would be to buy some heavy loading equipment and a field plot adjacent to a healthy stream to be able to start a boulder collection and maybe work towards opening it up to the community somehow.
@@CurrentlyRockhounding User's manual for any decent ultrasonic bath. Also, basic physics. In the end, you could do an experiment to convince yourself: for example, immerse a length of candy cane into the water directly, and measure the time it takes to dissolve it. Now take the same kind of candy cane, and immerse the same length of it into that plastic dish that sits inside the bath. Compare the rate of dissolution. Love your channel, thank you for everything!
@@hhngqeo I know have two ultrasonic cleaners, one high end unit and one more affordable unit and the manuals say nothing about that. I will try just that and see how much difference it makes. Thank you.
I've tried running it for longer and I'm not really seeing much of a difference after about the 5 minute mark. I will be doing some more accurate testing with it in the future.
The way ultrasonic cleaner work is by vibration so if you add a basket or change the viscosity of the liquid it or temperture you will change the results. Heat causes things to expand and cooling thingt they tend to contract. Depending on the frequency of the unit and the power you may want to play with the viscosity, temp and time.............be well and be safe..........
Thanks as always for sharing sir, much appreciated. Wow, that ultrasonic cleaner is excellent for micro-crystalline structures, great experiment and show of results IMO. On another note there is an interesting read specifically speaking about using ultrasound for networking- www.fandm.edu/uploads/files/231419403189482391-ultrasound-proximity-networking-novak.pdf
@@CurrentlyRockhounding Yup, also there are shielded and unshielded ethernet cables to help address crosstalk and signal attenuation. The cables (other than ethernet) and wires inside consumer grade computers are just sheathed (without shielding) and would most probably be vulnerable to specific frequency modulation. (the DOD has a specification for a type of shielded cables for offset of potential EMP bursts that often are used for communications in missile silos, bombers and command and control facilities and vehicles like AF1) If we consider things like video cables am not totally sure if they are shielded or not but doubt it? HDMI, DVI, VGA, DP, USB3, thunderbolt etc etc.
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I have experience with cleaning mechanical parts that had to be cleaned to a certain cleanliness. Using the ultrasonic sink was part of cleaning the parts. The water was always hot and we kept the parts in the ultrasonic sink for about 30 minutes. Also yes keep your hands out. It can mess your hands/ body parts up bad.
Not sure if anyone has said this yet or not but you could 3D print a mesh basket to place the polished rocks on which should eliminate potential scratches.
Also, certain high frequencies can mess with BT, i used to TiG weld and it took some time to find BT earbuds that were not interrupted when welding.
A little late to the party:) If you are worried about setting your delicate zeolites on the bottom or in something hard. You can put them in a ziplock with water or whatever cleaning liquid you want and suspend it in the sonic cleaner. Bonus benefit is all the crud stays in the bag!!
Instead of plain water, I use Walmart's brand of blue window cleaner, with ammonia (Basically, Windex, but cheaper). I have the largest version of the exact machine you have in the video. It loosens the caked-in polish, while the sonic vibes pulverize it, and flushes it out of the cracks. Plus, you get a streak-free shine.
Ohhh I will have to give that a try, thank you.
What ratio of window cleaner to water? What temp? How many minutes? Thanks much. Going to try this.
I used a sonicator to break down cells from marine organisms for my school's lab. I wouldn't at all doubt the possibility for them to cause capillary damage if you were to stick a finger in them. We also wore hearing protection using them since they can apparently cause hearing damage.
Jared, you are constantly looking for answers through trial and error! Great Job 👏
Hello, I used to work in a jewelry store and here's what I can share. 1. Get a unit with a built in heater. Without a heater, it will do you no good. No matter how hot your water is when you put it in, the water will always cool off and reduce your results. 2. We never used a basket. It"s provided to keep your hands out of the cleaning solution that is rinsed off after the unit has done it"s part. 3.All these units use specific cleaning solutions depending on what you are cleaning. Check out Ama..... for the different types of cleaning solutions. Some of them you may not want to use on some of your rocks or fossils as they may be softer and would be damaged by harsher cleanerrs. For your particular issue with the polishing paste, I would suggest you get the same cleaning solution that dentists put in their machines. Dentists do use paste type products for polishing and shaping teeth. This was a good idea, I liked the video.
Haven't used them for rocks, but have for removing carbon buildup and plasma residue from metals in laboratory equipment and polishing agents from epoxied samples. It doesn't totally solve the problem for baked on crud, and those parts still needed scrubbing periodically, so ultrasonic isn't necessarily a one-stop-shop. One thing I'm wondering is just how much of the leftover crud is actually crud vs minerals/precipitates.
If your zeolites hold up to acid, then that could be useful. Ultrasonic + acid is great for cleaning glassware. Just use acid-filled beakers in the water rather than filling the tub. That or a little borax or dishwashing liquid as others have suggested to reduce water surface tension and let it invade smaller areas, possibly with a pre-soak. Oh, I just remembered we'd sometimes use methanol instead of water because methanol has a lower surface tension and will evaporate rather than need to be dried. Not letting polishing agents dry/set (as much as possible) before cleaning may help, too.
Hmmm I need to test out the ultrasonic with some acid I think. Thank you.
@@CurrentlyRockhounding Acetone is another and cheap enough. Used for things like turbomolecular pumps. Less toxic than methanol too.
Cant say on a lot of what you asked, But I can say, you should use the water as hot as possible. Hotter water increases soluibilty of things. A good way to see this in action is to put a half pan of water on the stove and add 5 cups of sugar to it, at room temp you wont get all the sugar to dissolve, but when you turn on the heat and bring the water to over say 160F you can get most if not all of the sugar to dissolve into solution. In theory it should work the same in an ultrasonic cleaner.
I use a cleaner for motorcycle parts. Temp makes a big difference, also time. You can safely run the cleaner for longer stretches of time to get those tough areas. You can also switch mediums, try running warm vinegar or Oxalic acid.
We use an ultrasonic cleaner for our sterling silver pieces that we set fossil cabochons in. For us, the temperature of the solution is the biggest part in pulling the polishing gunk out of the cracks in twisted wire and other design elements. That said, we still have to take it and run the piece under hot tap water and do a fair bit of scrubbing with a toothbrush. Obviously not ideal for your zeolites, but another data point for your study! (We are also guilty of using the cheapo online sonic cleaner…) 😅
I use one for cleaning up my jewelry. I add a drop or two of Dawn dish washing soap. typically run it for about 15 minutes at a time. Also, there is a difference between the pink and white Cerium Oxide. The white is Optical grade and is used for polishing your glasses lens'. It's the only polish I use (except in the tumbler) for polishing my rocks. And yes, it gets into every crack and crevice there is.
Friend of mine cleans there air brush paint nozzle and various bits and pieces with one.
They leave it running over night and some times longer.
I was a dental teck for 50yr the ultrasonic was my best friend to clean
Polished crowns . Now I have one to clean rocks. Try using a tea strainer for small bites.
A couple of thoughts,
Use some sort of surfactant.
Those voids may trap air so maybe place specimen in face up (if able) to fill those voids and then invert.
The cleaning energy doesn't transfer through air.
I’ve often wondered about the ultra sonic cleaner, so thank you for shedding some light on this subject. I have the textile and it does most of the work like you said. But there is always that yellow stuff that is really hard to get off.🤷🏼♀️
I'm slowly going to prefect how to use these things cause there's really not much information out on their use.
@@CurrentlyRockhounding I will be watching for sure! I was inspired by your video yesterday and cleaned specimens with a textile. Like you said, gets 90% off… plus a finger or two if not careful!🤣 I really want to get the rest off with out destroying my calcite crystals!
The electronic circuit which excites the ultrasonic transducer is probably putting out electromagnetic interference which is disrupting the blue tooth connection. I use a very cheap ultrasonic cleaner bought from Aldi and find that warm water (60 degrees C plus) and a drop of detergent for a minimum of 3 minutes each time (sometimes repeat cycles) gets the worse of the dirt out of crevices. Also seems to help lift rust staining on some samples. I tend to soak before hand but have had similar results without presoaking.
30+ years background in RF, my guess is the ultrasonic cleaner raised the noise floor, which would cause signal to noise ratio issues.
Think of the background noise at the grass in your yard, and the signal you want to see as a weed sticking above the grass.
Well when you raise the noise floor (grass) it makes it harder to see the signal (weed) you are looking for.
My Background, I was awarded US Department of Commerce silver medal for my radio frequency antenna designs.
Also keep in mind they don’t have to be at the same frequency, all signals have harmonics that can cause issues with other frequencies if that signal noise is strong enough.
Example you can prob relate to is listening to AM radio and driving under a power line. That is a signal to noise ratio issue. The noise floor is raised to a point where it gets hard to see the signal. Grass is almost as tall as the weed.
40 years in electronic engineering. I concur. It is an EMI (electro-magnetic interference) issue. I technically support a small business that provides LED outdoor lighting equipment. We occasionally have issues where the LED bulbs will interfere with garage door remotes.
Not used it for rocks, but ultrasonic cleaning is important for laboratory parts. We'd use it to clean carbon from metal and plasma residue from nickel alloys. However, it isn't a cure-all. Still had to scrub parts periodically because, as you saw, it only gets the loose stuff, and residue would build up. One thing I'm wondering is just how much of what's left in some of the mineral specimens is "dirt" vs other minerals?
If your zeolites hold up to acid, you could try that. Works great for cleaning glass parts. My advice there would be to use a small acid filled jar/beaker in the water rather than filling the tub.
I have that exact cleaner and I usually set the water temp to 50, use a few drops of dawn dish soap in the water (breaking any surface tension), and I'll do 5-10 minutes at a time and check whatever specimens I've put in. If they need more, I put them in again until I'm satisfied. Some rocks/crystals don't like a sudden temperature change, so I'll let them warm up with the water if it's a concern. Nothing has broken yet. I'd like to learn about different cleaning solutions from others and what works best for different applications.
Do you often see a difference going longer? It seems like everything I put in for about 3-5 minutes gets everything off in that amount of time and I don't see a whole lot more happening after that.
@@CurrentlyRockhounding I've found that clay seems to need a few rounds, but most everything else takes one. You're probably right that I could use a shorter time. I just turn it on and go do something else because the sound is pretty irritating to my ears.
I noticed Amazon sells different cleaners to put in the machine to clean that item ( jewelry, car parts etc) maybe theres something that can be added for rocks. I noticed in the comments section of the jewelry cleaner it says rhodium will be damaged if left in it and turquoise could break apart if left in it. I was just thinking of buying one too so your video is perfect timing for me!
Thanks for video, i guess it is time to get ultasonic cleaner. I still want to try acid, for my blue forest wood..
What are you trying to remove from that petrified wood?
I hand load rifle cartridges and bought a 4 Liter UC. Sporting Good stores sell UC additives to improve the cleaning efficiency, it seems to make a difference.
I'm a real rockhounding rookie and I thought about the ultrasonic and never heard of it until you made this video I really think the hotter water will help maybe some type of cleaner a few drops of Simple Green maybe super clean I wash my rocks and hot soapy water between tumbling stages because I'm too lazy to brush them and pick them with needles and I have pretty good results !
I'm starting to play with the mixture of temperature and time to clean things! I think it has some promise.
We use ours for jewelery. I think the plastic tray may dampening the ultrasonics. We do not use the metal basket ours came with out, but put our items directly on the metal pan. It seems to work the best for us. There are ultrasonic cleaning liquids that came with ours, but they just seem to be a surfactant. The only time we do not use the surfactant is with opals, they are very hydrophilic so we dont want the water to be carrier for a contaminant. With small cracks it would seem to me cold water would cause the stone to contract and thus make the crack bigger. This it in my head and no basis of fact. If there are no books, I see an opportinity for you using photomicrographs as examples. Have fun and keep the goodness coming. One more thing the motors typically produce a large spectrum of electronic noise that is small and diminish with distance. You could build a faraday cage around it, but I wouldn't think it was worth it. Cheers!
A few months ago, I didn't have iron out on hand after a dig and like you was curious if this method would work. So, I decided to tried it on a few geode pieces I found. I was a bit worried if the cavitation would loosen or break apart the crystals but it held together and it cleaned up rather nicely. I tried mine in a 20% vinegar solution to also get the staining off and it came out very clean. My ultrasonic is very small so I ran 30 minutes on one side, flipped and another 30 and I had the heat on.
Kinda goes without saying, but be sure you're in a well ventilated area using anything other than water using the heating option and be careful about using anything flammable like a solvent
Hello Steven, do you think it's safe to use with more delicate minerals? Like for example gypsum needles?
Just bought my textile gun. ( Based on your recommendation.) 👍
Awesome info! I'm still a novice despite the fact that I've been rockhounding since I started walking. I say that because I never thought much about identifying my finds. Mostly I got home exhausted from a day out so I would just toss them into a box, or my garage, or in my garden. Eventually, I would soak and scrub them and assault them with my rock hammers at which point a substantial number earned a place inside. But, it was all 'gut' for me.
On retiring, my interest in exploring and learning to identify my 'finds' became vivid. Now, I'm planning to move down to Colorado to be near my son. (OH! How I'll miss my Montana!) So, I've been months gathering rocks from all over my house and everywhere else, which includes tearing through my garden to find what I tossed aside.
Well!! I can't take all these thousands & thousands of pounds with me! So, my quest to identify (somewhat) what's worth keeping means getting them clean.
That led me to learn about the use of muriatic acid. I've gone through MANY gallons. Oh, dear! I've destroyed a few beautiful samples!
Thanks to you, I've learned another way! I've heard of ultrasonic cleaners but never thought of using them to clean rocks. I think I need a BIG one!
My thanks to you and to all commenters!
Generally speaking I try to work my way up to different acids and start with the easier things first so I don't destroy anything.
heat will help when using a ultrasonic cleaner. Keep in mind my only working knowledge of an ultrasonic cleaners is with glasses, obviously you can't heat water up too much when it comes to cleaning lenses, you risk the chance of damaging certain coatings. But the warmer the water the faster the grime will roll off and the longer the better. Ultrasonic cleanser solution does help but not sure how that would react with some minerals? I've left a set of glasses sit in an ultrasonic cleaner for an hour before and when I came back there was still little clouds of gunk coming out of nooks and crannies (really gnarly glasses worn by a 3 pack a day smoker). I don't think it matters if its face up or down as long as it's in the center of the cleaner and covered by water it should be bringing that stuff out.
Hi Jared, some interesting info in your video, like most of us I’ve heard of these ultrasonic cleaners, mainly to do with the fields of medical & jewellery and to a lesser extent lapidary. Interesting video and I’ve had a quick peak at some of the other comments. It looks like they have a place in the shop and some additional methods to get the best out of them. Another interesting video to keep us informed, 👍.
Keep Safe & Keep Rockin
I think they have their place, I just need to really dial in how best to use it.
I need one of those. That definitely takes the effort out of the scrubbing which is time consuming.
I'm impressed how well it did with such short runs. Can to imagine 30 mins.
I wonder if heater warms the crystals enough to expand a tiny bit allowing the bond between "gunk" and itself to break free?
This was a great video for anyone interested in getting clean display pieces CLEANER. 👍
Some sort of wetting agent may help.
I'm not sure if you can use soap in the machine, but there are many things other than traditional soap that would "make water wetter"
I think I remember people saying to add borax. It might not be an accurate recollection. I don’t have one yet so it’s just a filed memory, not something I have tried. Maybe it reduces the water’s surface tension or something? Maybe it does nothing.
I use a small ultrasonic cleaner for removing dirt and stuff off of my Druzy Quartz , but I just do surface cleaning with it.
However when I was a Pawn Broker way back when , we used a large Ultrasonic cleaner for jewelry and what not, we would use a detergent made for the cleaner , it SHOULD NOT hurt any rocks you are cleaning as we used it on all sorts of mineral settings including turquoise....
Now about it popping capillaries.. that's the first I have heard of that, perhaps some super sized industrial model , but I had, had my fingers in it lots of times with out issue , it will clean your fingernails nicely though.
Thank you! I'll look into what the detergents are made of.
All things have a learning curve. Another great machine to help you clean those specimens.
As for the blue tooth on your phone it sounds like you have a loose connection in the phone itself. The vibration is playing havoc with it.
Another great testing of equipment video. I've used my ultra sonic cleaner to remove polish from pitted tumbled rocks and it kind of worked. I do use the heat feature at about 120 degrees. Maybe getting them in there immediately after taking them out of polish would work better. The one thing I'd say I had the best results with are crystal clusters. However, I had to use a toothbrush with soapy water to get the really stubborn gunk out. My final thoughts on the machine are, if you use a little dish soap in the water it cleans much better, and they work super great on cleaning polished rocks that have been sitting around collecting dust, works perfect for that. They clean some things better than others.
Thank you! Yeah I think they have a place in the shop but there not perfect.
I love using my ultrasonic cleaner for cleaning druzy quartz , Mine is FAR from as nice as yours but I am also just removing the surface material and not getting into the ultra fine cracks.. Now when I was a Pawn broker back in the day, we would use a detergent in our big ultrasonic cleaner for cleaning up rings and other jewelry, I am not sure what it would do to the rocks but it would clean all the "YEEECH" out of rings and what not ..... also the first I have heard about it popping the capillaries in your fingers ( don't believe that's true as many times as I have had my fingers in one that's running ..... It will clean your fingernails nicely though )
I am seriously thinking about getting one of these but I’m going to need a big one 😅 first things for though… I need to get that angle grinder
The heat function would probably be more necessary for jewelry with oils in it.
More time and/or a presoak would probably help with the more stubborn particles. Some sort of surfactant might help too.
That looks like just like (but with a smaller tub size) the one my dad uses to clean his CPAP. Also used the heat to try and suved in it. (Mostly worked lol)
My friend uses a soft electric toothbrush with hers for cleaning jewelry I wonder if that would make a difference for the crystals.
I would try running the rock longer and maybe bring the temps up. I wonder it it would break down softer rocks or minerals or cause micro fractures.
Excellent topic!!
The "sonic" as I call it, method is effective, but you'll be doing this repetitively... I'm an Ultrasonic Pro so to speak as I'm a Sterile Processing Tech in the med field. Hoping I don't get fired for saying this but I have tried out our huge Sonic when I was on call with various sized batches of my Lake Superior Agate's and other geodes. (Yes, this is all without surgical instruments and the machine was properly disinfected before my rocks!) It works, but unless you're looking for a microfilm type deposit to be eliminated from your rocks, which is what an ultrasonic is designed to do, you're probably not going to get the results from any sort of similar machine that you're looking for. I've done this about 30 times in the past 2 years. Hand cleaning/ scrubbing is the way to go.
😁🍻🤟
Oh I agree this is no replacement for scrubbing stuff but I have been finding for some things it does work pretty well.
A nice water pick would probably work wonders.
I do wonder about the heat as well. I'm sure you'll update our inquiring minds in the future.
Bluetooth frequency is about 2.5 ghz that ultrasonic cleaner is probably what amateur radio operators refer to as dirty and has some leakage off of the electronic caps from the circuit boards,, usually the cheaper the quality the dirtier the signal coming off said object.
Very interesting. Will be interested in what you figure out.
Ultrasonic cleaners are awesome, and not many people know about them, great video.
Thank you!
My missus used to run a Dental Surgery, they had a really powerfull ultra sonic cleaner. I may have sneaked a we shot once or twice.
There are detergents that can be used with sonicators. A little methanol is good for stainless, not sure about rocks.
interesting. Curious if you've done any more experimenting with the ultrasonic cleaners.
I have done more and as we move into cold weather out here I plan on posting a few more videos showing it working.
Ultrasonic cleaners use piezoelectric effects of crystals to vibrate… I wonder if the radio waves that generate Bluetooth is also caused by crystals I wonder if there is interference in that way
Personally I think you are on the right track, the temperature might be key in turning the paste like oxide to a liquid easier. As many stated detergent and extending the time, I would imagine could go quite a ways too. As for your electronics, all information is transferred through vibrations, frequency is just limits set on a wave. Before shielded cables if wires crossed you could pick up interference, in the old day if a lamp power cord was too close to your phone cord, you could get major static. Same is true with magnets, too close would distort the transmission. In conclusion it's magics, who really knows.
You make a good point. I recall as a kid some time picking up the home phone and hear a local radio station with the dial tone.
Have you continued to use the ultrasonic cleaner to get embedded grit out of rocks? If so, what additive are you adding to the water? Borax? Do you still need to use a toothbrush also?
More than anything I use it to get dirt and grime off of small minerals and use other cleaning processes for other things like rocks.
@@CurrentlyRockhounding Thank you.
I wonder if you soaked the rocks in vinegar and baking soda first then used the ultrasonic cleaner? Just curious.
I'm going to test that out.
Bluetooth interference... I have experience with this. Mainly when the microwave is running... Same deal: within a couple of feet, it freaks out. I suspect it has something to do with frequency interference via the wavelength a microwave (or in your case the ultrasonic cleaner) or something within it operates at...
May also interfere with WiFi, as is my experience with the microwave.
Does it work on mineral staining such as iron or Hematite on quartz, or is it just for particulate removal?
I haven't test it on mineral staining but I will!
Interesting video! I'd like to see a follow up video if you learn anything new about it. I've been cleaning rocks basically by hand for 10 years and I'm tired of it. You seem kinda picky though, and might cringe at what I consider clean. Lol. But I also don't have a following to see my rocks like you do. Thank you for your videos.
So sorry for the delay in the response, for some reason stupid RUclips thought this was a spam comment.
I do plan on doing some future follow ups with this. I guess I am being a little picky with it but I really want them to be super clean!
Also ultrasonic cleaners won't damage your hands if you just reach in and grab a specimen, I don't know about leaving your hand in there but I can confirm my capillaries have not burst 😉
Hmmm yeah I think maybe a quick grab is fine but maybe soaking your hand in it may not be the best thing to do.
My late father lost a few of his fingernails from putting his fingers/hands into his Ultra Sonic cleaner all the time whilst it was running. (Rock Cleaning)
I wonder if a high pH water in the ultra sonic cleaner would remove some of that "staining"
Hmmm something I could test with ease.
You are not running them long enough,I used to work in jewelry store, so have used these ultrasonic cleaners extensively.good luck.
How long have you been running yours? I'm finding that after about 2 or 3 minutes there doesn't seem to be much more coming off.
Old nurse here. Try soaking overnight in denture cleaner then US for 15 minutes
Thank you for doing this video.
When I have a lot more time with it I will share what I find about using it in another video.
Interesting I haven’t tried a sonic cleaner on my wrapped stones maybe I should , thank you 😊
I think that's mostly how people use them.
I would like to see how it works on crystal.
That will be happening.
Great video! I have no idea why the ultrasonic cleaner would have a reaction with your blue tooth. That is weird! My roommate is a computer wiz and has a genius iq, so i will ask him about it when he gets home from work. As for the ultra sonic cleaner. I never used one on my rocks, but was in optics for 20+ years, and every optical shop has an ultrasonic cleaner fpr cleaning the gunky buildup on eyeglasses. We used to use windex in it and we would run it for 10+ minutes in some cases. And just the friction of the solution and the glasses, would cause the water to heat up. Ours didnt have a heater on it, but it would heat the water up by the time we removed the glasses. Not hot, but warm. I dont know if that helps or not. I will comment again if i get any answer about the interference to the blue tooth! Thanks for sharing!
Many of these comments that were left 9 days ago at this point are just now showing up in my feed since RUclips comments were glitching out on this day.
Someone has gears turning. 🤔Love it! 🤘
:D
Face up or face down doesn't matter much. A little bit of dish soap will help.
The Action Lab explains how these type of cleaners work. ruclips.net/video/uRmoPc7l9qg/видео.html
As far as the Bluetooth interference, it's the high frequency electronics creating a radio wave.
Put a drop of detergent in warm water for your ultrasonic cleaner and shld work better for you… you’ll see a stream of bubbles and dirt coming from objects being cleaned
Hot water, detergent and a half hour works for me.
2:14 "BIG ENGINE BIG ENGINE"
Its rather annoying.
@@CurrentlyRockhounding yes I agree but when I heard it I thought of the comic Brian Holtzman who always yells in his video big engine every time he hears one
I think a specimen with lots of those micro fissures would be interesting packed with color-dyed or UV luminescent compounds; similar to iodine stain in microscopy or color-enhanced imagery. You'd actually need this type of cleaning before you could pack those cavities. I think it would be really cool for illustrating that quality in certain specimens. Just a thought.
Ohhh I really like that idea.
@@CurrentlyRockhoundingThis is a heckin long comment, but maybe theres something useful in it all. I did some recent looking, and you should get more power out of the ultrasonic by using saline solution. Sound transmits at higher speed through salt water than fresh. Pure water also is naturally densest at around 40°F, so if you simmer a brine of distilled water and pickling salt until it stops dissolving and then chill it you'll get the highest sonic cavitation for your money. Boiling it will produce the greatest saturation (full supersaturation), but once you chill it and put it in the supersonic, the extreme agitation will likely cause the salt to precipitate and fall out of solution all at once. The worst that'll happen is you'll get salt coating the tank, but you absolutely must seal your specimens in a baggy or jar(with a strong gasket like a canning jar) of solvent regardless.
For solvent there are a lot of options, but kerosene and mineral spirits are one step further up as long as you keep them away from flame and have a fire extinguisher and use canning jars. I know for a fact that strait rubbing alcohol is great If you can't be bothered though, just fill a zippered bag with distilled water and evacuate most of the air so it sits in the saline bath better.
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As far as the stain/indicator, you would probably have the best luck with epoxy resin, as you can add both dyes and luminescent additives. Clear varieties with low viscosity and longer set times should be most suitable, and you could mask portions with plastic wraps/bags and some tape if you dont want to goop up the exterior...
A significant consideration to add is that you're going to get the best results with epoxy from using a vacuum chamber to pull the bubbles from the epoxy after combining the agents and also it will greatly help facilitate the penetration into the cavities.
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Another separate thing that might be interesting is a weirdo thing called the Clerici solution or else alternatives like sodium polytungstate which are hyper-dense solutes that can be calibrated to float out desireable minerals including gemstones and diamonds, since it can create solutions 4x denser than pure water. They're expensive and poisonous, but just a little food for thought in case you sift smaller minerals.
I learned a bit while researching this stuff, so I figured I'd pass it on. Very nice collection you've got though. We're in very strange days now that witches/new-age religion practitioners are entering mineral hobbyism, but I've got about a hundred absolutely random rocks just because a like them. One of my greatest goals in life would be to buy some heavy loading equipment and a field plot adjacent to a healthy stream to be able to start a boulder collection and maybe work towards opening it up to the community somehow.
Found bunch more quartz today, with vug like cavities. Lustrous..
Lovely!
I use super vinegar
I'd say the ultrasonic is admitting a EMP messing with the signal of the gimbel.
The disconnection is from aliens
Why do they always have to screw with my projects!!!!
👁👁 👍 Informative ….
thank you
Thank you!
That plastic dish is absorbing most of the ultrasound energy you are hoping to reach the stone
What exactly are you basing that off?
@@CurrentlyRockhounding User's manual for any decent ultrasonic bath. Also, basic physics. In the end, you could do an experiment to convince yourself: for example, immerse a length of candy cane into the water directly, and measure the time it takes to dissolve it. Now take the same kind of candy cane, and immerse the same length of it into that plastic dish that sits inside the bath. Compare the rate of dissolution.
Love your channel, thank you for everything!
@@hhngqeo I know have two ultrasonic cleaners, one high end unit and one more affordable unit and the manuals say nothing about that.
I will try just that and see how much difference it makes. Thank you.
Run it for 30 min or so. I don’t think 3 minutes is long enough
I've tried running it for longer and I'm not really seeing much of a difference after about the 5 minute mark. I will be doing some more accurate testing with it in the future.
Heat.
Kinda loud eh?
It picks up way more on the video then it does in real life. I would says its about as loud as an electric shaver.
The way ultrasonic cleaner work is by vibration so if you add a basket or change the viscosity of the liquid it or temperture you will change the results. Heat causes things to expand and cooling thingt they tend to contract. Depending on the frequency of the unit and the power you may want to play with the viscosity, temp and time.............be well and be safe..........
Thanks as always for sharing sir, much appreciated. Wow, that ultrasonic cleaner is excellent for micro-crystalline structures, great experiment and show of results IMO. On another note there is an interesting read specifically speaking about using ultrasound for networking- www.fandm.edu/uploads/files/231419403189482391-ultrasound-proximity-networking-novak.pdf
It does seem like all of these can cause some interference with computers and cellphones..
@@CurrentlyRockhounding Yup, also there are shielded and unshielded ethernet cables to help address crosstalk and signal attenuation. The cables (other than ethernet) and wires inside consumer grade computers are just sheathed (without shielding) and would most probably be vulnerable to specific frequency modulation. (the DOD has a specification for a type of shielded cables for offset of potential EMP bursts that often are used for communications in missile silos, bombers and command and control facilities and vehicles like AF1) If we consider things like video cables am not totally sure if they are shielded or not but doubt it? HDMI, DVI, VGA, DP, USB3, thunderbolt etc etc.