I love it when our favorite YT machinists contribute on the rest of the community's content. We have a pretty great little corner of the internet with some pretty great people. You're a stud Pi!
Seems like we have a similar strategy on deburring: Step 1: remove blood stains Step 2: debur the part Step 3: check part for blood stains. If any found, repeat at step 1
After telling the story about the maker who stood by his cannon for the first shot, then Stefan sanding and rubbing like mad again and again, he says "not crazy .." and keeps on sanding. Gotta love the guy and everything he does. Kudos Gotteswinter !
There's lots of good guys posting on youtube. But Stefan in my opinion is the most interesting person to listen too. Totally engaging, supremely knowledgeable, but extremely humble...A pleasure to watch.
"I'm not the first guy to do this". Stefan, by now I would think just about anything that could be done with a manual machine has been done. IMO the most impressive things done on manual machines are turbine impellers that were done pre cnc. And the interrupted threads on the breaches of large naval rifles. Given the pressures they had to withstand they had to be absolutely perfect. Now if you had a way to run your cross slide at the proper ratio you could make chuck spirals. And I know they had set-ups to do that on manual lathes. Setting the router at the center of the included angle you could also cut buttress type threads. Not germane to threadmilling but in the past I experimented with making roughing mill cutters out of taps. Grind a relief angle on the top of the teeth that gives a flat wide enough that all the flats are longer than your taps pitch. Grind a secondary relief angle. Works fine on softer materials. Not so much on tool steels. I worked with some machinists from Germany and they told me that in the 50s they used to have to make end mills out of twist drills.
I would like to hear more about the difficulty associated with cutting the interrupted threads for naval guns. Can you point me in the right direction to more information?
@@BravoCharleses Sadly no. To be honest I don't know if they where single, double or multiple lead threads. I suspect that multiple lead threads would be weaker simply because of the lead angle of the threads.
Wonderful video. Back in the time frame 1880 (and even before that) when electric motors were rare or unavailable there was the English Holzapffel ornamental lathe company .The double ff is no typo. The lathes were foot-powered. They had all kinds of attachments and extra-axis devices. Among the things they would do is mill threads. They would also allow you to e.g checker-pattern a piece or inscribe all kinds of patterns on work. The last Holzappfel was sold in 1920 or so. If you look under "ornamental turning"you will find quite a lot of info.
By using this same router setup with 2 flute, carbide wood-routing bits, you can make amazingly-accurate lathe cuts and deep grooves in rubber and soft urethane bars. I've used this on motor mounts and suspension bushings etc. The trick is using compressed air for cooling along with a vacuum cleaner. Love the video!
Stefan is one of my favourites. I have to choose between Stefan, Joe Pie, Robin Renzetti and Tom Lipton. There are others of course. The steadfast adherence to practical as well as accuracy and precision is truly an art form and is common among them all. When I want a chuckle, as well as these qualities, I turn to 'This Old Tony' as I'm sure most who are interested in this subject will do. Abom79 is another stalwart - a big amiable kind hearted giant of a man. This is a special community, revelling in an under regarded set of skills. Hand to eye accomplishment is the best medicine for what ails thee.
Hi Stefan. Nice to see the solution to a very old problem for which the model engineer's Guru George Thomas had a much more complex solution. Folks, when you slit into a previously bored hole there is a tendency for the bore to close in. Stefan's jack screw is a very simple and elegant solution. BobUK.
I've never seen this before! Beautiful little adapter and spectacular results. Seems so much more controlled and safer than single point threading. To me as an armchair machinist fan, you guys cutting threads always looks like some kind of ballet with chainsaws.
I have a similar setup and have found that it works great for trepanning. I use an end mill in the die grinder and rotate the lathe chuck very slowly. It's much faster than using a conventional trepanning tool and there are no issues with chatter.
In my father's shop back in the seventies we used to do the final grind on hardened threads with a diamond embedded linen phenolic wheel mounted on a tool post grinder. It wouldn't take much off but it made the threads extremely slick. It was set up much like what you're doing except the cutter and/or lap was mounted on a mandrel. The angle could also be adjusted for clearance on larger threads by tilting the spindle up and down in the front. Fun stuff! Thanks for the video!
Very nice Stephan. I find lots of little embellishments you do usefull to learn. Like using a set screw to open a coller clamp that allows for a precise fit without over torquing a small fastener. Like Filing a precise 45deg bevel junction on an inside corner. Instructive, thank you Sir.
Its always nice to see a true craftsman doing his stuff Being an engineer ( millwright) for nearly 50yrs I know quality when I see it Great video Stefan Please keep making them Pete UK
Putting a router on a lathe's toolpost as a milling attachment is a neat trick. A homemade 4-flute 2mm thread mill bit that doesn't break without magnification is really impressive. I would stick with single flute D-bits below 4mm. I've been studying threads for 50 years since I worked on Brantley Helicopter rotor parts with old 4A & 4B threads called out on some of the rotor drawings. That is tighter 3A & 3B but not an interference fit. The reason for the radius at the root of the thread and the tread relief is to prevent stress concentration. We may worry too much about thread forms. Mauser rifles all were made with Whitworth (58-degree) threads, usually 12 TPI. In the US, we rebarrel them with barrels having 60-degree threads almost every time. They shoot the same no matter the barrel thread.
Cannon blowing up < bad deburr for sure. Also, the set screw 'trick'/gimmick is frickin brilliant. I've never thought of that. So simple and amazing. Damn good thinking!
Yes the jack screw a great idea. It's also a good technique for mounting one plate to another with some degree of adjustability to allow them to be co-planar (e.g. DRO scale mounting, to a casting). A jack screw plus a tension screw in 3+ corners allows for a lot of freedom of adjustment.
That is really interesting! Done threadmilling on a cnc mill but never thought about doing it on a manual lathe. Allows for so many possibilities! Thanks for sharing!
I soak up everything you tell us, Stefan and, if I can't apply it straight away, I store it for future use. One thing though which I have found with thread milling tools, is they generate a different form to the shape of the cutter. It's the combination of the tool rotating on an axis parallel to the work piece's axis but interpolating a spiral. The front of the cutter generates a different flank angle. The true thread form should be normal to the helix angle of the thread so the form of a thread milling tool really needs to be modified to take this into account. The trailing side of the form is fine as it is in clearance but the leading side will back cut the flank to form an angle larger than required and the radius will also be generated larger. For threads which are large compared with the diameter of the tool, this is negligible but for very small threads relative to the size of the cutter, it is significant. I have a thread milling cutter for an M2.0 thread which has an OD of Ø1.6mm (the tapping size for the thread!) which will cut a thread either tight (crest of screw same size as major diameter of ID thread) or it's too loose because the female thread form is too wide. Are you able to CAD model a cutter which will generate the correct form when interpolating a helix?
Nice job as always Stefan. Would love to see a bit on the grinding of the tools, I think this would be really interesting and a good reason to show off your new T&C grinder. Well done and thanks. Jon
What a great video. I just have to make one. One thing that I, along with many others I suspect, have trouble with is cutting off. It seems to me that a small assortment of endmills would turn this tool into an almost perfect cutoff tool. Perhaps even a slitting saw could be used in it for cutting off. If I make one I think I will use a reversible motor for maximum versatility. I think this could be a very versatile tool to have at the lathe.
That's very cool! I love it! Please keep experimenting! It looks like a very unique and useful approach for manual machining! Thank you for all of the work that goes into making these videos! Greatly appreciated! :)
Watching Stefan deburring a part is like watching an episode of Bob Ross on TV. You listen to a calm voice explaining how simple it is, doing a bit of magic here and there, and yet you get a totally different result when you try it yourself...
Gday Stefan, What a great setup, the new grinder is really working out great, the small tool you made is amazing, I’m afraid my eyes would be no good for doing things that small, really enjoyed this video, thank you mate, take care. Matty
There was actually a special lathe, itself called a "threadmill", that I have seen a couple examples of that was used for milling precision leadscrews. It was basically a lathe with a live milling spindle integrated along the bed, that could be tilted to the helix angle of the thread. There are still some using them... Charles River Museum in Massachusetts has one
For right hand external threads, tilting the live tool down at the chuck end should give proper lead angle. A little more restrictive for deep internal threads of small bore. Nice work Stephan and one of my most enjoyed channels.
I just stumbled onto your channel, and I must say I am very impressed with your content and production quality. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I may not become a machinist but can take some small snippets from you into my studio.
Excellent tips. I always learn a lot. I wish my German was as good as your English. I think I have to build one of these. You are starting to cost me money like Tom L.
i must say i was impress with the subject of mill threading on a manual lathe , i have an old Colchester , school lathe. & it was never . fitted with a . lead-screw the lathe use's the rack as a threading siystom but as no staring clock. i have tide your idea on my lath &find it works well 7 delivers a good thread. the use of broken taps work's well . & cut a 6. thread to the inch to fit my spindle of my lath internal using a old tap of the right third & pitch. i set the gears to fit the relied third & pitch . & achieve a successful . result. using a old tap as a cuter i would love you to demonstrate larger size sets . such as a 10 mill thread in a 20 mil hole .
There was a study done recently regarding the life of a file used going in both directions vs lifting on the return stroke. The outcome was that there was very little or no difference in the wear on the file for either technique. I don’t remember where I saw this, but a quick search should bring it up. I have been deburring and chamfering for over 60 years and my files have shown no evidence of deterioration. I will say though, that they were never used on hard surfaces, which would probably dull them no matter the direction of application.
If you set your parts on a paper towel after applying the activator, the bottom side may not get the full effect. I try to use a rack over a small container to catch any drips. If you flip them half way through the process, you can ensure the most even finish. A good cold blue finish is all about the preparation. Great video, and great design for the toolpost router, I am gonna steal the general shape, except I am also gonna build one for a TIG torch.
If you get the polished inserts for aluminium they are able to machine HSS in the lathe. You can cut and shape thread milling and involute rack angled cutters with them to get the correct form then grind the cutting faces. VBGT work well.
That would also work ideal for face grooves/recesses on a part with the spindle parallel to the lathe spindle. The OD Perpendicular thread milling with the proper profile tool could work good for custom wood screws or metal inserts for plastic/printed parts.
Right after I read your comment, I looked at a drywall screw ;) If I ever need to make something like that I will keep that in mind! The facegrooving is something I tested (didnt film it), and it works suprisingly well, and with the cutter doing a full slotting cut, it also runs very quiet.
Hi Mr. Stefan, Another awesome and very educational video!!! I am a bit of newer subscriber to your channel!!! I must say you have some very excellent, well detailed and very educational videos i have seen on RUclips ( i also enjoy watching Adam Booth, Tom Lipton of Oxco tools, and Tubalcain (Mr Pete) as well as the Electrical/Electronics RUclips creators). I am a hobby machinist (my regular and to pay the bills and hobby full time job is in the IT/computer data analytics field rather boring and straight-forward) and have been catching up on your videos during this pandemic and can honestly say i have honestly learned (at least) 2 or 3 things from each of your videos, either brand new or improving/adding to something i have learned in the past. I also feel your videos have the perfect balanced amount of science, engineering/manufacturing, art and humor! I look forward to seeing all and upcoming videos you will be releasing down the road! My very best to you and all of your family and loved ones throughout the rest of 2020 and beyond!!! also hope that everyone stays safe and healthy during the Covid-19 virus pandemic!!
Nice little experiment Stefan. It would be an easy task to use an ER 16 collet chuck with a long shank (flea bay is full of them) and toothed belt drive it with a low kv BLDC motor for more torque and larger tools. There must be countless cordless drills out there with a blown speed control. No problem just use an RC speed controller and pulse generator. The router motor definitely has its limitations with it's extreme speed making HSS tooling all but unusable except for very small tools.
You can also make a double direction thread - milling it out in one direction, then reversing feed/spindle direction and milling a left hand thread over it. Or using an indexing plate to make a spline with almost no leadout like a staggertooth cutter would leave. Or something really crazy like offsetting the live tooling above the work and at an angle on the compound to make really weird looking threads or decorative finishes or compound angles like fins on an impeller.
Nice to see not only I abuse this scratch proof sheet... ;) Awesome project and a wonderful demonstration. There are many machinist (good ones!) that are funny, fascinating and brilliant - but I think your videos are always a treat and I look forward to these... :) Thank you!!!!
I just ran 24 parts that needed a 3/4”-32 internal thread to the bottom of the bore. Of course not on a manual machine. But it worked beautifully. Now I’m inspired to try milling trapezoidal left and right hand threads for a self centering vise build. Already located the thread milling cutter. This will also allow any thread pitch within reason. So a double start thread should be doable.
I made mine using a high speed spindle available on eBay from some Chinese manufacturer with a VFC that came with it. An 800 watt motor. Works very well. While I’m typing I forget the ER collet size that came with it. Now that you say it’s 16, I think that’s what on mine.
I have both high quality optical microscopes and cheap video scopes. I put a video scope with built in display (about $49 if I recall) on a magnetic indicator base. I use it in my Emco super-11 and my Hardinge toolroom lathe. It gives a great view of cutter action if you need it. It is also is useful on the mill too. While the quality is not like a Leica scope it does keep your face away from the action. Don't under rate the cheap scope it works and other can see it. Great for demos. I mounted a Dremel moto-tool on my Emco 30 years ago to spin and abrasive disc to cut Hastaloy X . I also had an air turbine with a multistage planetary to spin a slitting saw for screwdriver slots on a homemade gang tool CNC lathe. I also used a full speed turbine (50K or so) to spin very small PCB drills on the gang lathe too. By the way Robin mispronounces Hardinge. He says Harding instead of Hardinge. I noticed you have adopted that too. The correct pronunciation ends with a sound like Hinge (like door hinge) but without the H sound. Please take no offense your English and your videos are excellent. I watch them all. JY
Always informative and educational, thanks. I was really expecting to see that first cutter flex more. Is that router sealed? Are you taking precautions to keep those tiny chips out of the brushes?
Hi James, No, the router is not sealed - But I run the same one in my chamfer-mill where its showered in metall chips, never had an issue. I guess the motor fan is powerfull enough to keep everything out.
@@StefanGotteswinter The setup could be a real time saver on larger pitches. I make a regular parts in aluminium with 75 x 3mm pitch. There is a matching part with internal threads. This could really speed that process up.
I use a phosphoric acid based "rust converter" for "cold blueing". It makes the same black oxide that soaks up the oil and prevents rust. Dunk it and let it sit in solution, dry it off and oil it. Pretty easy. $25 a gallon in Missouri. The brand name is Ospho. Good stuff and much easier to use and much less expensive.
I did something similar with a die grinder but my problem was cutting very large threads. My lathe is too small to use some of the really big dies I have like 2" x 4.5 tpi but I found that if I roughed the threads out first, I could finish them with the die. Equally (i haven't tried this) it would also let you finish the thread form with a single point tool or, if you wanted to be flash, a grinding stone with the correct form.
Thank you for continuing to share your knowledge and experiences, I really appreciate your effort and wish you success and happiness in your endeavors. Question: if you were starting over today, would you use a larger size Multifix or Tripan tool holder given your experience with the solid tool post?
Manual lathe live tooling! I improvised mine on my beat up Sherline by repurposing a Dremel I had lying around, it works well enough for engraving lines on knobs and things like that. For that last test with the D-bit, I would think leave a kind of rough finish at the bottom of the thread valleys, since the surface speed at the tip is only whatever RPM you've set the spindle to? Anyways, always nice to see another video!
I would like to see how you touch off with a tool like that first single point cutter. Do you just slowly feed it in until contact? Seems like it would be very hard to establish contact precisely with a tool that has such a small and fine point.
Mentioning the non-breaking chip when machining PVC, at work we often machine down rubber coated rollers (~2.2m long, 170 to 200mm diameter) we use insert toolling on the lathe and we get 1 single continuous chip from that, the surface finnish is great though, competes with what other companies achieve by grinding and doesn't smell nearly as bad
you are a master and I think in due time your videos will get the recognition and views they deserve, But kee it up please, youve genuinely have helped me excel at the shop i work at
Very impressive - particularly that 2mm OD threadmill! Do you think thread milling on the manual lathe could also help with cutting very large threads (or e.g. acme/trapezoid profile) that a smaller lathe might otherwise struggle with?
You could make a yankee screw driver or feed to add or remove wire, cord, or hose to a drum. Acme trapezoidal cutter say 14.5 deg to axis. Cutting the forward and reverse lead angles would be easy. The transition from a forward to reverse say in 180 or 270 degree would require a cam with a cam follower roller and spring pushing the carriage with the cam roller against the cam mounted to the spindle. Hand turn the spindle through the angle. A thought. CNC Swiss mill created a screw for me years ago that drove a piston pulling a vacuum. Battery powered. To give the batteries the longest life the current for the brush motor needed to be constant. Thus the pitch for the vacuum stroke was variable and the return as fast as possible to arrive at the proper angles on the two reversing direction portions at the top and bottom of the screw. The thread follower was a small portion of the thread cut into a revolving cylinder face so that the pitch angle could continuously change. It had to be long enough to jump over the return cut thread.
It strikes me that it would be possible to use a bottoming tap as a cutter, although it might require a slight regrind on the cutting side of the flutes. Another possibility would be making a scroll for a lathe chuck if you had an accurate and controllable drive on your compound. Another use would be trepanning plates since breaking a cutter would be less likely that breaking a trepanning tool. You could also use a form tool to give your plate a radius finished edge. Cutting Acme thread both inside and out would be a breeze. It opens up a lot of new ways of doing things.
I would have thoroughly enjoyed working side by side with you back in the day. I like the way you think. 100% Great video.
I love it when our favorite YT machinists contribute on the rest of the community's content. We have a pretty great little corner of the internet with some pretty great people. You're a stud Pi!
@@shirothehero0609 Stopped watching TV time ago ! Dont even have a TV anymore...
With all this content coming, I watch only this community
@@Mtematiks I have a TV that I only use for watching RUclips on :-)
Thanks Joe, thats an honor hearing that from you :-)
Agreed on all points Joe!
Seems like we have a similar strategy on deburring:
Step 1: remove blood stains
Step 2: debur the part
Step 3: check part for blood stains. If any found, repeat at step 1
Im a hvac guy by trade. When Im knocking tin, I bleed.
Totally agree, I cringe when I see home gamers (and some pros), checking a broken edge with their pinky to see if its still sharp. lol
@@1ginner1 at least they check. 😅
Every shop I've been in, everyone leaves sharp edges or burrs to save time and cut corners.
Cutting corners by not cutting the corners?
The reverse set-screw interference fit bit is a nice trick.
Will be adding to my designs.
Same system as used on my 40 year old drill press head.
Referred to as "Jack Screws". I use them all over the place
"Should fit... or else I will edit it"
That's the youtube spirit
Seems like you can cut knurls with a setup like that too. Reverse the feed without reversing the chuck direction.
After telling the story about the maker who stood by his cannon for the first shot, then Stefan sanding and rubbing like mad again and again, he says "not crazy .." and keeps on sanding. Gotta love the guy and everything he does. Kudos Gotteswinter !
I love that the thread just stops with no run out! Such a cool look.
There's lots of good guys posting on youtube. But Stefan in my opinion is the most interesting person to listen too. Totally engaging, supremely knowledgeable, but extremely humble...A pleasure to watch.
Again, the magic happens, Awesome!! I learn new stuff every time. Thank you for all the time you put into these quality presentations
"I'm not the first guy to do this". Stefan, by now I would think just about anything that could be done with a manual machine has been done. IMO the most impressive things done on manual machines are turbine impellers that were done pre cnc. And the interrupted threads on the breaches of large naval rifles. Given the pressures they had to withstand they had to be absolutely perfect.
Now if you had a way to run your cross slide at the proper ratio you could make chuck spirals. And I know they had set-ups to do that on manual lathes. Setting the router at the center of the included angle you could also cut buttress type threads.
Not germane to threadmilling but in the past I experimented with making roughing mill cutters out of taps. Grind a relief angle on the top of the teeth that gives a flat wide enough that all the flats are longer than your taps pitch. Grind a secondary relief angle. Works fine on softer materials. Not so much on tool steels. I worked with some machinists from Germany and they told me that in the 50s they used to have to make end mills out of twist drills.
I would like to hear more about the difficulty associated with cutting the interrupted threads for naval guns. Can you point me in the right direction to more information?
@@BravoCharleses
Sadly no. To be honest I don't know if they where single, double or multiple lead threads. I suspect that multiple lead threads would be weaker simply because of the lead angle of the threads.
Wonderful video. Back in the time frame 1880 (and even before that) when electric motors were rare or unavailable there was the English Holzapffel ornamental lathe company .The double ff is no typo. The lathes were foot-powered. They had all kinds of attachments and extra-axis devices. Among the things they would do is mill threads. They would also allow you to e.g checker-pattern a piece or inscribe all kinds of patterns on work. The last Holzappfel was sold in 1920 or so. If you look under "ornamental turning"you will find quite a lot of info.
By using this same router setup with 2 flute, carbide wood-routing bits, you can make amazingly-accurate lathe cuts and deep grooves in rubber and soft urethane bars. I've used this on motor mounts and suspension bushings etc.
The trick is using compressed air for cooling along with a vacuum cleaner. Love the video!
Stefan is one of my favourites. I have to choose between Stefan, Joe Pie, Robin Renzetti and Tom Lipton. There are others of course. The steadfast adherence to practical as well as accuracy and precision is truly an art form and is common among them all. When I want a chuckle, as well as these qualities, I turn to 'This Old Tony' as I'm sure most who are interested in this subject will do. Abom79 is another stalwart - a big amiable kind hearted giant of a man. This is a special community, revelling in an under regarded set of skills. Hand to eye accomplishment is the best medicine for what ails thee.
Hi Stefan. Nice to see the solution to a very old problem for which the model engineer's Guru George Thomas had a much more complex solution. Folks, when you slit into a previously bored hole there is a tendency for the bore to close in. Stefan's jack screw is a very simple and elegant solution. BobUK.
I've never seen this before! Beautiful little adapter and spectacular results. Seems so much more controlled and safer than single point threading. To me as an armchair machinist fan, you guys cutting threads always looks like some kind of ballet with chainsaws.
I have a similar setup and have found that it works great for trepanning. I use an end mill in the die grinder and rotate the lathe chuck very slowly. It's much faster than using a conventional trepanning tool and there are no issues with chatter.
i just thought about trying that. thanks for the heads up!!
In my father's shop back in the seventies we used to do the final grind on hardened threads with a diamond embedded linen phenolic wheel mounted on a tool post grinder. It wouldn't take much off but it made the threads extremely slick. It was set up much like what you're doing except the cutter and/or lap was mounted on a mandrel. The angle could also be adjusted for clearance on larger threads by tilting the spindle up and down in the front. Fun stuff! Thanks for the video!
Very nice Stephan.
I find lots of little embellishments you do usefull to learn.
Like using a set screw to open a coller clamp that allows for a precise fit without over torquing a small fastener.
Like Filing a precise 45deg bevel junction on an inside corner.
Instructive, thank you Sir.
Very nice work Stefan! love the threadmilling.
ATB, Robin
Woah! It’s Robin! Love your channel!
@@orionfleming6783 Thanks!
Its always nice to see a true craftsman doing his stuff Being an engineer ( millwright) for nearly 50yrs I know quality when I see it Great video Stefan Please keep making them Pete UK
The aesthetics of your designs are just as amazing as the tolerances Stefan. Gorgeous work as always
Putting a router on a lathe's toolpost as a milling attachment is a neat trick. A homemade 4-flute 2mm thread mill bit that doesn't break without magnification is really impressive. I would stick with single flute D-bits below 4mm.
I've been studying threads for 50 years since I worked on Brantley Helicopter rotor parts with old 4A & 4B threads called out on some of the rotor drawings. That is tighter 3A & 3B but not an interference fit. The reason for the radius at the root of the thread and the tread relief is to prevent stress concentration.
We may worry too much about thread forms. Mauser rifles all were made with Whitworth (58-degree) threads, usually 12 TPI. In the US, we rebarrel them with barrels having 60-degree threads almost every time. They shoot the same no matter the barrel thread.
Cannon blowing up < bad deburr for sure.
Also, the set screw 'trick'/gimmick is frickin brilliant. I've never thought of that. So simple and amazing. Damn good thinking!
Yes the jack screw a great idea. It's also a good technique for mounting one plate to another with some degree of adjustability to allow them to be co-planar (e.g. DRO scale mounting, to a casting). A jack screw plus a tension screw in 3+ corners allows for a lot of freedom of adjustment.
I have a Kress on my home cnc router, nice and reliable. Excellent presentation as always Stephan.
I am a simple man, I see a Stefan Gotteswinter video; I smash the like button.
By far one of the most interesting machining videos I've ever seen, very intriguing, thank you so much Stephan !!
Hahaha! Love the speed up with the abrasive sponge!!! Some good exploration shared... good stuff!
Thanks Stefan. I can see where this method would be especially good on internal threads.
That is really interesting! Done threadmilling on a cnc mill but never thought about doing it on a manual lathe. Allows for so many possibilities! Thanks for sharing!
I soak up everything you tell us, Stefan and, if I can't apply it straight away, I store it for future use. One thing though which I have found with thread milling tools, is they generate a different form to the shape of the cutter. It's the combination of the tool rotating on an axis parallel to the work piece's axis but interpolating a spiral. The front of the cutter generates a different flank angle. The true thread form should be normal to the helix angle of the thread so the form of a thread milling tool really needs to be modified to take this into account. The trailing side of the form is fine as it is in clearance but the leading side will back cut the flank to form an angle larger than required and the radius will also be generated larger. For threads which are large compared with the diameter of the tool, this is negligible but for very small threads relative to the size of the cutter, it is significant. I have a thread milling cutter for an M2.0 thread which has an OD of Ø1.6mm (the tapping size for the thread!) which will cut a thread either tight (crest of screw same size as major diameter of ID thread) or it's too loose because the female thread form is too wide. Are you able to CAD model a cutter which will generate the correct form when interpolating a helix?
Nice job as always Stefan. Would love to see a bit on the grinding of the tools, I think this would be really interesting and a good reason to show off your new T&C grinder. Well done and thanks. Jon
13:50 That’s wicked cool.
Who says controlled OCD is a bad thing?
I swear I smelled the PVC cutting when it started!
Well done Stefan, you are inspiringly! Thanks.
What a great video. I just have to make one.
One thing that I, along with many others I suspect, have trouble with is cutting off. It seems to me that a small assortment of endmills would turn this tool into an almost perfect cutoff tool. Perhaps even a slitting saw could be used in it for cutting off.
If I make one I think I will use a reversible motor for maximum versatility.
I think this could be a very versatile tool to have at the lathe.
Very cool! I really like the method you used to cold blue those parts.. They came out really nicely ! Thanks for the inspiration..
That's very cool! I love it!
Please keep experimenting!
It looks like a very unique and useful approach for manual machining!
Thank you for all of the work that goes into making these videos!
Greatly appreciated! :)
This was really interesting to watch and the results were great. Learnt so much. Thanks for sharing
Very happy to see these programs.Thank you
Watching Stefan deburring a part is like watching an episode of Bob Ross on TV. You listen to a calm voice explaining how simple it is, doing a bit of magic here and there, and yet you get a totally different result when you try it yourself...
And we dont mistakes, only happy accidents :)
Che meraviglia!!! Complimenti! Mai visto una lavorazione in questo modo. Ciao
Gday Stefan, What a great setup, the new grinder is really working out great, the small tool you made is amazing, I’m afraid my eyes would be no good for doing things that small, really enjoyed this video, thank you mate, take care. Matty
There was actually a special lathe, itself called a "threadmill", that I have seen a couple examples of that was used for milling precision leadscrews. It was basically a lathe with a live milling spindle integrated along the bed, that could be tilted to the helix angle of the thread. There are still some using them... Charles River Museum in Massachusetts has one
For right hand external threads, tilting the live tool down at the chuck end should give proper lead angle. A little more restrictive for deep internal threads of small bore. Nice work Stephan and one of my most enjoyed channels.
I just stumbled onto your channel, and I must say I am very impressed with your content and production quality. Thank you for sharing your wisdom. I may not become a machinist but can take some small snippets from you into my studio.
Excellent tips. I always learn a lot. I wish my German was as good as your English. I think I have to build one of these. You are starting to cost me money like Tom L.
i must say i was impress with the subject of mill threading on a manual lathe , i have an old Colchester , school lathe. & it was never . fitted with a . lead-screw the lathe use's the rack as a threading siystom but as no staring clock. i have tide your idea on my lath &find it works well 7 delivers a good thread. the use of broken taps work's well . & cut a 6. thread to the inch to fit my spindle of my lath internal using a old tap of the right third & pitch. i set the gears to fit the relied third & pitch . & achieve a successful . result. using a old tap as a cuter i would love you to demonstrate larger size sets . such as a 10 mill thread in a 20 mil hole .
I liked and subscribed just from the title alone.
Awesome ... love the slide show format showing the steps of making the tool holder!
very good video..thanks for your time
Great instructional video. Question; why not stone a small radius on the cutter tips to create a perfectly shaped thread?
Clever use of the counteracting screws in the clamp.
👍 thanks for sharing. Love the chip breaking idea for plastics!
There was a study done recently regarding the life of a file used going in both directions vs lifting on the return stroke. The outcome was that there was very little or no difference in the wear on the file for either technique. I don’t remember where I saw this, but a quick search should bring it up. I have been deburring and chamfering for over 60 years and my files have shown no evidence of deterioration. I will say though, that they were never used on hard surfaces, which would probably dull them no matter the direction of application.
OD turning with a thread mill, very impressive Stefan.
Thanks for sharing, regards John.
If you set your parts on a paper towel after applying the activator, the bottom side may not get the full effect. I try to use a rack over a small container to catch any drips. If you flip them half way through the process, you can ensure the most even finish. A good cold blue finish is all about the preparation. Great video, and great design for the toolpost router, I am gonna steal the general shape, except I am also gonna build one for a TIG torch.
Stefan and Renzetti video in one weekend? Awesome! Learned a ton from you.
Fascinating. Will we be seeing some tool grinding on the new T&C grinder ? I for one would like to see it.
He already did that in the last video.
More coming for sure :)
If you get the polished inserts for aluminium they are able to machine HSS in the lathe. You can cut and shape thread milling and involute rack angled cutters with them to get the correct form then grind the cutting faces. VBGT work well.
This would be good for cutting splines
That would also work ideal for face grooves/recesses on a part with the spindle parallel to the lathe spindle. The OD Perpendicular thread milling with the proper profile tool could work good for custom wood screws or metal inserts for plastic/printed parts.
Right after I read your comment, I looked at a drywall screw ;)
If I ever need to make something like that I will keep that in mind!
The facegrooving is something I tested (didnt film it), and it works suprisingly well, and with the cutter doing a full slotting cut, it also runs very quiet.
Hi Mr. Stefan, Another awesome and very educational video!!! I am a bit of newer subscriber to your channel!!! I must say you have some very excellent, well detailed and very educational videos i have seen on RUclips ( i also enjoy watching Adam Booth, Tom Lipton of Oxco tools, and Tubalcain (Mr Pete) as well as the Electrical/Electronics RUclips creators). I am a hobby machinist (my regular and to pay the bills and hobby full time job is in the IT/computer data analytics field rather boring and straight-forward) and have been catching up on your videos during this pandemic and can honestly say i have honestly learned (at least) 2 or 3 things from each of your videos, either brand new or improving/adding to something i have learned in the past. I also feel your videos have the perfect balanced amount of science, engineering/manufacturing, art and humor! I look forward to seeing all and upcoming videos you will be releasing down the road! My very best to you and all of your family and loved ones throughout the rest of 2020 and beyond!!! also hope that everyone stays safe and healthy during the Covid-19 virus pandemic!!
Welcome!
Woo first! Take that, Stefan!
I think I need to delete your comment ;-)
Nice little experiment Stefan. It would be an easy task to use an ER 16 collet chuck with a long shank (flea bay is full of them) and toothed belt drive it with a low kv BLDC motor for more torque and larger tools. There must be countless cordless drills out there with a blown speed control. No problem just use an RC speed controller and pulse generator. The router motor definitely has its limitations with it's extreme speed making HSS tooling all but unusable except for very small tools.
That was fascinating. There were a lot of good ideas in there.
You can also make a double direction thread - milling it out in one direction, then reversing feed/spindle direction and milling a left hand thread over it. Or using an indexing plate to make a spline with almost no leadout like a staggertooth cutter would leave. Or something really crazy like offsetting the live tooling above the work and at an angle on the compound to make really weird looking threads or decorative finishes or compound angles like fins on an impeller.
Nice to see not only I abuse this scratch proof sheet... ;)
Awesome project and a wonderful demonstration.
There are many machinist (good ones!) that are funny, fascinating and brilliant - but I think your videos are always a treat and I look forward to these... :) Thank you!!!!
I just ran 24 parts that needed a 3/4”-32 internal thread to the bottom of the bore. Of course not on a manual machine. But it worked beautifully. Now I’m inspired to try milling trapezoidal left and right hand threads for a self centering vise build. Already located the thread milling cutter. This will also allow any thread pitch within reason. So a double start thread should be doable.
I made mine using a high speed spindle available on eBay from some Chinese manufacturer with a VFC that came with it. An 800 watt motor. Works very well. While I’m typing I forget the ER collet size that came with it. Now that you say it’s 16, I think that’s what on mine.
I have both high quality optical microscopes and cheap video scopes. I put a video scope with built in display (about $49 if I recall) on a magnetic indicator base. I use it in my Emco super-11 and my Hardinge toolroom lathe. It gives a great view of cutter action if you need it. It is also is useful on the mill too. While the quality is not like a Leica scope it does keep your face away from the action. Don't under rate the cheap scope it works and other can see it. Great for demos.
I mounted a Dremel moto-tool on my Emco 30 years ago to spin and abrasive disc to cut Hastaloy X . I also had an air turbine with a multistage planetary to spin a slitting saw for screwdriver slots on a homemade gang tool CNC lathe. I also used a full speed turbine (50K or so) to spin very small PCB drills on the gang lathe too.
By the way Robin mispronounces Hardinge. He says Harding instead of Hardinge. I noticed you have adopted that too. The correct pronunciation ends with a sound like Hinge (like door hinge) but without the H sound. Please take no offense your English and your videos are excellent. I watch them all.
JY
I've been wondering about that for years!
Thank you Stefan for another great video!
Nice options Stefan, fun to watch the experiments.
That worked amazingly well on PVC. I want to try it on urethane. I have trouble getting a smooth finish quality from single point cutters.
in Urethane I would even try a grinding wheel dressed to 60°.
I had way better results in materials like that with grinding than cutting.
@@StefanGotteswinter I'll try that. Thanks
Can't wait until you start making your own ball screws with this setup.
Always informative and educational, thanks. I was really expecting to see that first cutter flex more. Is that router sealed? Are you taking precautions to keep those tiny chips out of the brushes?
Hi James,
No, the router is not sealed - But I run the same one in my chamfer-mill where its showered in metall chips, never had an issue. I guess the motor fan is powerfull enough to keep everything out.
@@StefanGotteswinter The setup could be a real time saver on larger pitches. I make a regular parts in aluminium with 75 x 3mm pitch. There is a matching part with internal threads. This could really speed that process up.
I use a phosphoric acid based "rust converter" for "cold blueing". It makes the same black oxide that soaks up the oil and prevents rust. Dunk it and let it sit in solution, dry it off and oil it. Pretty easy. $25 a gallon in Missouri. The brand name is Ospho. Good stuff and much easier to use and much less expensive.
I did something similar with a die grinder but my problem was cutting very large threads.
My lathe is too small to use some of the really big dies I have like 2" x 4.5 tpi but I found that if I roughed the threads out first, I could finish them with the die.
Equally (i haven't tried this) it would also let you finish the thread form with a single point tool or, if you wanted to be flash, a grinding stone with the correct form.
Thank you for continuing to share your knowledge and experiences, I really appreciate your effort and wish you success and happiness in your endeavors.
Question: if you were starting over today, would you use a larger size Multifix or Tripan tool holder given your experience with the solid tool post?
This is actually an awesome idea... My lathe doesn't have Lot of horse power and doing it this way would work so much better. Thanks for the idea!!
You are so talented! I enjoy your videos and the many skills you display.
This gave me some great ideas for cutting small threads. Thanks!
Manual lathe live tooling! I improvised mine on my beat up Sherline by repurposing a Dremel I had lying around, it works well enough for engraving lines on knobs and things like that. For that last test with the D-bit, I would think leave a kind of rough finish at the bottom of the thread valleys, since the surface speed at the tip is only whatever RPM you've set the spindle to?
Anyways, always nice to see another video!
Another stunning result - 👍😎👍 I definitely enjoyed
Thank you so much for this- I very much enjoyed it and found it to be very informative. Looking forward to trying it out!
thank you for the wonderful video. will be nice to do internal lead screw nut thread.....glad to see im not the only one to get the wrong pitch..
Great video. Another tool added to the to build list. Great stuff
The router in radial mode could also be used to cut a keyway if there is a spindle brake that can be locked on.
This video just kinda grinds on and on. Best use of an off the shelf high end grinder yet :)
Thanks again Stefan, for a great video. Your method might be applicable to making Acme threads for some applications?
I would like to see how you touch off with a tool like that first single point cutter. Do you just slowly feed it in until contact? Seems like it would be very hard to establish contact precisely with a tool that has such a small and fine point.
Stefan... I think you and your shop are located beyond the event horizon.... Peace out!
Always good to leave no stone unturned (part}.But as we age we get lazy and quality drops.Thank's for reminding me to drive myself harder
Mentioning the non-breaking chip when machining PVC, at work we often machine down rubber coated rollers (~2.2m long, 170 to 200mm diameter) we use insert toolling on the lathe and we get 1 single continuous chip from that, the surface finnish is great though, competes with what other companies achieve by grinding and doesn't smell nearly as bad
you are a master and I think in due time your videos will get the recognition and views they deserve,
But kee it up please, youve genuinely have helped me excel at the shop i work at
Very impressive - particularly that 2mm OD threadmill! Do you think thread milling on the manual lathe could also help with cutting very large threads (or e.g. acme/trapezoid profile) that a smaller lathe might otherwise struggle with?
Hi Stefan,greetings from Ireland, great video, as always i find your video's interesting and informative, keep up the good work.
Well there something you don't see everyday😀. Now you'll have to show us how to thread an endmill! 🤣. Thanks for the share! Super cool! 👍😎👍
You could make a yankee screw driver or feed to add or remove wire, cord, or hose to a drum. Acme trapezoidal cutter say 14.5 deg to axis. Cutting the forward and reverse lead angles would be easy. The transition from a forward to reverse say in 180 or 270 degree would require a cam with a cam follower roller and spring pushing the carriage with the cam roller against the cam mounted to the spindle. Hand turn the spindle through the angle. A thought.
CNC Swiss mill created a screw for me years ago that drove a piston pulling a vacuum. Battery powered. To give the batteries the longest life the current for the brush motor needed to be constant. Thus the pitch for the vacuum stroke was variable and the return as fast as possible to arrive at the proper angles on the two reversing direction portions at the top and bottom of the screw. The thread follower was a small portion of the thread cut into a revolving cylinder face so that the pitch angle could continuously change. It had to be long enough to jump over the return cut thread.
It strikes me that it would be possible to use a bottoming tap as a cutter, although it might require a slight regrind on the cutting side of the flutes. Another possibility would be making a scroll for a lathe chuck if you had an accurate and controllable drive on your compound. Another use would be trepanning plates since breaking a cutter would be less likely that breaking a trepanning tool. You could also use a form tool to give your plate a radius finished edge. Cutting Acme thread both inside and out would be a breeze. It opens up a lot of new ways of doing things.
I am happy you fastened a bit the videos, !
I like your new style of filming/going of the videos