Best DIY Battery Upgrade on the Market - GOODBYE BATTLE BORN - Why Not RV: Ep 127
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- Опубликовано: 11 сен 2024
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Why Not RV: Episode 127 - DIY Lithium Battery Upgrade, Goodbye Battle Born. If you have been following me you know I don't care to pay for something if I can build it myself. This DIY Lithium Battery upgrade is very simple to do and any average DIY guy or girl can get it done without issue. If you have questions, please comment them and I will do my best to respond in a timely manner.
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Pro Tip on the top balance - You should actually connect to the positive on one end of the string and the negative on the other end of the string instead of side by side on the single cell.
Same thing when you connect to your system - let them drain from different ends of the string. 👍 Oh, and using equal length cables to hit the positive and negative.
Definitely always use equal length cables. I didn’t really show it much in this video but I actually have four identical cables running from each positive and each negative to the main busbar system. For the top balance thing it’s not a bad idea of course, but with such low voltage and low current, it really won’t make a difference when you are just letting it sit there for a couple days.
this guy has a lot to learn about making batteries the right way
But he understands footprint really well. @@mattg8787
Agreed, I would also install a non-conductive panel around the batteries. It make me very nervous seeing such energy right up against the aluminum skin of the RV. Disaster waiting to happen.@@mattg8787
@@WhyNotRV Are you suggesting that you did a top balance on sixteen 300AH batteries in parallel with that power supply pushing 6A in "a couple of days?"
I built the batteries for my motorhome last year. I did 305ah AESC batteries with Daly BMS's. I put together four sets for about $1600. It would have taken 12 Battle borns for the same amount of power and cost me somewhere over $10,000.
Love it!!! Thank you for the addition here.
Here are some hints how you can improve this installation. 1. Put insulator material between the cells. 2. T-Fuse between each battery and positive busbar. 3. The ring terminals for the balance leads should sit between the nut and the busbar 4. Compress the cells or at least use kapton tape 5. Do not place the BMS on top of the batteries in a box 6. Strap down your batteries. On a rough road or in case of an accident those cells will fly all over. 7. The top balancing with 5A must have been taking many weeks having in mind you have 1200 Ah……
I appreciate all the input here. Definitely some great advice here.
Everything you said above is very important. The install in this video is an over simplification to the point of being somewhat dangerous.
to add to that i would have checked the volts at every battery lead wire to see it thing are wired right if not you can fry that bms
I wonder if he is liable for putting out a garbage install video if someone burns down their camper following his directions
I think the value of this video was to communicate being able to put together a large battery bank inexpensively. It was designed to stimulate thinking about one's personal needs and circumstances. It was not step by step. I am intrigued by the idea enough to learn more. Thanks for the video and the constructive comments are also helpful.
I would highly recommend coming up with better BMS mounts. With age and vibration of driving, those cardboard boxes will wear through and short out. The cardboard will be a nice fire starter too.
Yeah, this is the definition of temporary. You’re not exactly what I’m going to do for long-term.
I did very similar on my sailboat although I used the JK BMS which does a fantastic job of keeping all of the cells balanced with its active balancer. When you top balance, you should connect the + & - leads to opposite ends of the pack so that you do not have the accumulated resistance in the buss bars from one end to the other.
Sounds like a good build. I’ve heard a lot about the JK BMS. Going to try one on another build I’m working on soon
@@WhyNotRV I love mine. I just took the cells out of the box, connected them in series and put the JK on a 13.6v charge. When they first got up to set voltage, the pack was over 250mv out of balance. The 2A balance does its thing and on mine, after 4-6 hours, it had the delta down to 10mv. After that, I charge to 14.4v and it kept up with balancing the pack. If the pack is badly out of balance, you might need to let it run at 13.6 for 3-4 days during which time you will see very little progress because the low cells are in the flat part of the curve. Once it starts to come down it improves quickly, and you end up with a perfect top balance. I have had some other JK users think that it was not balancing because they did not see any reduction right away. If you think about it, how much movement of the voltage do you see when you are charging with your big main charger between 13.2v and 13.4v? On my 560Ah pack it takes hours at 60A to go from 13.39v to 13.4v. 2A while huge for a balance current is still small when compared to the 300Ah of a cell so some patience is called for.
Once you get your lowest cells to 3.4v they are all above 98% full so everything happens quickly from there.
I do hope that by now you have added class T fuses to the +out and moved all of your sense wires to the top side of the buss bar or into a seperate screw. I see that some of your buss bars have a small, tapped hole which I assume is for the sense wires. If you have anything between the terminal and the buss bar it increases the resistance at the worst possible place and causes heat, which causes more resistance, which causes more heat...
Too large a battery bank and not enough Solar. In order for the BMS to balance the cells, you need to be in absorption mode for 30 min per 100 Ah. That means 6 hrs for 1200 Ah. With that 100/50 victron there is not enough time in the day to bring those batteries to full charge from 50% and still be able to balance. They will eventually become out of balance. As an installer I see this all the time. Good luck with your system.
Yes the battery upgrade was just the first step. Solar will be next big project. I’m probably going to add a dc-dc as well.
Rubber roof material is great for insulation between cells. Ive built a 30 kw lifepo4 and a 14 kw leaf battery for my solar power systems that run our holiday rambler travel trailer. The battle born are suposed to be great but super expensive if you want alot of battery. I used the eve grade a cells with 2 hole terminals like yours. I used a dally 300 amp bms and all my stuff is 24 volt. My leaf cells i used a jk bms. I have active balancers that i only plug up to top balance on occasion but yeah building your own battery is definitely the best bet
Thanks for watching! Sounds like some sweet builds you got going on
@@WhyNotRV it started as a small hobby but it's turned into a way of life. I'm ki da addicted to this solar stuff lol. Seems every couple weeks there is new technology and I keep buying it but it's fun and better that I spend on this stuff as to spending on something that doesn't help our life ya know
Absolutely!
Not bad. I like the concept. I'd like to see a fuse and disconnect on the 12VDC - but that is just me. You do you. Thanks for sharing
Thank you. Yes I have done disconnects before but they are an added failure point in my experience so I don’t use them anymore.
WAY Overkill I love it! Bus Bars are definitely the way to go, keeps the batteries happy. I used MRBF Fuses at each positive terminal.
Thank you. I will soon be posting an update video showing the “fuses” that I added that have a resettable breaker.
I did the exact opposite. I built my own DIY battery from cells and BMS, then I decided it was too much risk putting this into my RV, with the possibility of shorts, and overheating cells next to one another. I ended up using four LiTime 230Ah batteries, for a total of 12.1kwh. The advantage to this is the cells are isolated and insulated, each battery has it's own BMS, has low temp protection, and they have a 5 year warranty with a company that stands behind their products. If one of your DIY cells or BMS goes bad, sorry, you'll have to replace it yourself. Sure the commercial battery takes up more space. Your mileage may vary, as the saying goes.
understandable, if you aren't comfortable with DIY.... DON'T DO IT!!! It is not for everyone
Thanks.😊. Id take this as more of a why to than a how to video. Others have pointed out improvements that should be made. Maybe when you upgrade solar etc. Consder going to 48v. Especially if a lot of power use is ac through an inverter. Ether use a dc dc converter for your 12v or using your existing solar charge controller add a separate 12v battery and run dc and ac systems separately 😊
Thanks for watching if you go through my channel, you’ll find where I’ve already built a 48 V extremely large solar system with dual inverters. In this Airstream application, the absolute craziest thing I would do would be to go to 24 V no need to go to 48 V, I did make several improvements to the set up which again I have followed videos showing. I’m coming up on a year now with it and I’m about to do a review and recap.
I enjoyed this discussion. It gives food for thought. I think sometime it is better to have it and not need it … etc I had a visitor this week who doesn’t grasp the idea enough to think he needs to be prepared. We get power outages a lot. Has a glitch with the shore power today, less than a second. It might be interesting to check out the realms of voltage spikes and readiness.
Thank you. Thanks for the comment here and thanks for watching!
I wouldn't have connected the balance wires under the bus bars - you want a flat broad contact with the alloy cell terminal when shifting low volts high amps - put the balancer cable ring on top of the bus bar - The 100amp Daly BMS passive balancer @35 mA is just not man enough to keep such large cells in balance - You need to supplement it with a 5amp active cell balancer that comes on at 3.45v - I personally would have gone for a blue tooth JBT or similar with active cell balancing - Finally slip some thin insulator sheet between cell cases - In a van its possible to rub through the thin cell wrap and short the stack
Yes, I did move the ring terminals to on top, also added insulation sheet (cardstock) between cells. I might throw a active balancer on top of these at some point.
Someone else mentioned it and I will also say it. Daly BMS is horrible, probably the second worst one I ever used. I have made dozens of LiFePO4 packs. I now buy exclusively JK BMS's for any pack I make. I am not sponsored and I have bought every one that I used. They are by far the best I have used. Active balancing BMS is the only way to go.
I’ll look into these ones. I personally haven’t had a problem with my Daly ones yet
I did the same thing for my coach years ago! great video! please tell me that you put a isolation board between all the cells and the wall agaisnt the metal skin of your rv? Please please mount those BMS's for safety. I just purchased battery boxes for $30 bucks and made them look nice and protect all the componets. you have to love the capacity of DIY built thow.
I used quarter inch foam, isolation board for any contact points. You definitely can’t beat the DIY sell options.
C- rates - In describing batteries, discharge current is often expressed as a C-rate in order to normalize against battery capacity, which is often very different between batteries. A C-rate is a measure of the rate at which a battery is discharged relative to its maximum capacity. A 1C rate means that the discharge current will discharge the entire battery in 1 hour. The feogrn batteries are rated at 300AH per cell and since you are connecting then in series you are adding the voltage so the current stays at 300AH. They are rated to have a maximum continuous discharge current rating of 1C so they can be discharged at 300 amps. since they can be completely discharged in one hour. So, you could put a 300A BMS on them to make use of their total potential. By the way, thanks for the info on these batteries, I will be using them on my RV but with 300AH BMS's.
Thank you for watching and thank you for the comment here. Of course there’s multiple ways you can wire these and multiple ways you can use these because I did four different 12 V sets I chose to use for individual 100 amp BMS Since Cesar wired in parallel with exact length cables and everything the system could draw 400 A at one time and will pull against all four batteries equally. And the BMS will be just fine. Of course BMS also have different capacity ratings and due to my future plans with this RV in terms of solar and DC DC charging the 50 A per BMS or 200 A total was more than I needed. Thanks again and hope you have a great weekend, and good luck on your build.
@@WhyNotRV I am going to be using 4 or 5 of these batteries powering a 3KW inverter plus a number of 12 DC loads The inverter will draw about 400 Amps when fully loaded. I have come to the conclusion that I will only need 200 amp BMSs which will give me more than enough current to handle my load. This way I will never overload the batteries. 😀
Awesome! Sounds like a great build
You really need to move the balance lead terminals above the bus bar. You want as much surface area as possible between the battery terminal post and the bus bar. They way you have it will cause higher resistance and heat and possible low voltage to your inverter on high amp draw loads.
I do appreciate the input and on a typical post style I would do that. Because of how wide the bus bars are, and having two mounting points to each terminal, there’s ample surface area. But definitely solid advice.
@@WhyNotRVyou are loosing a lot of surface area the way you have it installed.
I did change them to on top. I definitely appreciate the feedback and extra thoughts.
Careful with your loads...your bank can discharge at 400+ AMPS but I believe those bus bars are only rated for 300 AMPS. Also, double check the amp rating on that shunt!!
Ya with my setup I could run EVERYTHING possible and it still wouldn’t hit 300 amps
In terms of insulation between the cells and each battery, I bought inexpensive cutting board sheets from a $$$ store, cut pieces to match the size of the side of a cell and inserted one piece between each set of cells that make up a battery. These sheets provide insulation between each set of cells and will prevent the wrap of each cell from wear and tear due to vibration.
Rubber sheeting between each cell would provide better insulation and cushioning. But if the batteries are not going to be subject to vibration from any mode of transportation, the cutting board method should suffice. You might be able to purchase inexpensive place mats and use pieces as insulating material. They will most likely have some form of backing or padding that will provide insulation and cushioning between the cells.
Yes, I’ve seen several people use construction paper as insulation in between the cells. I ended up using foam board construction paper, type stuff as a side and top insulation. I have it pretty well secured tight, but I am going to inspect them after a couple of trips to check for any vibration rubbing points. If I have some, I’m going to add insulation in between the battery cells.
I wouldn't leave the BMS units in cardboard boxes on top of the batteries. It might not take very long for road vibrations to cause the cardboard to wear allowing the BMS to contact the terminals.
Yes. I added 1/4” foam board on top of the batteries between the BMS cardboard boxes and the terminals
Easiest best way to top balance is just get an active balancer hook it up and fully charge the battery. All that hook up in parallel stuff is a real waste of time now that the active balancer does that for you. Thats how we dod ot before the active balancers were available. And if you are gonna do ot that way you should hook up your leads on opposite ends of the battery.
Great addition here. Thank you
@@WhyNotRV you did a really good thing by building your own battery tho. It's most definitely the best way to do it
For sure
I like your installation and upgrade. However, the one thing you don't mention about LiFePo4 cells is how they react to low temperature. LiFePo4 cells DO NOT like to be charged below 32F degrees. The cells can discharge fine at that temp and lower, but charging them at a freezing temperature drastically shortens their life and capacity. I also noticed, your cells are mounted inside your RV, and will stay approximately the same temperature as the interior, that is a great option. However, most RVers will have their batteries mounted in a place that will keep them closer to the outside temperature. Charging them at a low temperature could then be a problem. If you are running solar, it would require an MPPT charger that has a temperature probe for low temp shut-off, or get a BMS that has a temperature probe that will shut down the charging if the temperature gets to low. If you are not running solar to charge your battery, you will some type of method to shut off the charging. There are a couple methods available. If you plan on building a battery, then get a BMS with a low temp cut-off feature. If you buy a cheap 12v 100ah LiFePo4 battery, most likely it won't come with a low temp cut-off. In that case, you buy a shunt that fits between the charger/inverter with a temperature probe connected to an Auto relay. When the Shunt temp probe senses too low of a temperature, it trips the relay and shuts off the charging. The last option is to purchase some way of keeping the cells warm during the cold weather. Heat strips and heating blankets are available that will keep the batteries warm, however they do draw power to warm themselves and that in turn reduces your available power. Thanks for the video and a look at your Air Stream.
Everything here is very well written, thank you for your input. Myself, due to them being inside, I’m not concerned about temperature but In a previous build I insulated the battery bay extremely well, I was in -10 in Colorado and the discharge and charging of the cells put off there own heat and with the insulation I was able to keep the battery’s above 50 degrees. But yes, easy battery heater can be added for extreme conditions.
That problem is easy to solve purchase a 48V 5.0 Trophy lithium phosphate battery with built in heater built in breaker and digital bms read out
That’s an option
I do like 48v systems. Smaller wiring is the biggest advantage. I would use one for a cabin, or even for a home off-grid. But, I don't see an advantage in an RV. Going with a 48v system in an RV, you would also have to invest in a 48v charger and that would cost in the range of $120-$1500. It's an expense that is really not needed when RVs already come with a 12v converter/charger and come with dedicated 12v circuits already wired at the junction box. As for systems with solar panels added, it doesn't matter if it's a 48v system, or a 12v system, you still have to purchase an MPPT charge controller, except, there are more INEXPENSIVE 12v-24v models available on the market than 48 volt ones. And, since we are talking about 12v inexpensive systems, why would I want to go buy a 48v 300ah Trophy battery that costs almost $5,000 (currently $4,695), when 300ah prismatic cells go for about $120 ea. (16 cells needed to match the 48v Trophy battery wattage), add (4) JK BMSes and anyone can make (4) 12v batteries for less than $2,500. If a person doesn't have that much money laying around up front to make four batteries, or room for them all, they can go with less. One 300ah battery = 3,600 watts, Four 12v 300ah batteries = 14,400 watts. A 48v 300ah Trophy = 14,400 watts. Also, you have one Trophy battery that weighs over 200lbs, or can go with four smaller batteries that weigh about 50lbs each. And, looking around you can purchase a no name already built LiFePo4 12v (100ah = 1,200 watts) battery with low temp cutoff cost for about $260. However, our high end DIY 12v 300ah LiFePo4 battery (3,600 watts) with low temp cutoff can be made for less than $600. That's triple the wattage for just s little over twice the price of a manufactured 100ah battery. As I also said before, built-in heaters and blankets lower the efficiency of your battery, they use up about 60 watts per hour just to keep the battery warm (Usually at night when you aren't charging anyway). Leave the heater on for 10 hours and it will use up 600watts. That a lot of wattage that can be used to heat up your coffee in the morning. Just using a BMS with a temperature probe to shut down charging when it gets too cold saves the battery, but it also lets you discharge and use the battery during those low temps. The JK BMS also automatically allows the charging to resume once the temp returns above freezing. As for heater strip capability, if you want it, the JK BMS has that capability also. However, you will have to purchase the heater strips separately and install them around the cells.
Yes, 48v is insane for an rv setup. I should know lol. Look through my channel and you’ll see my 48v Montana 5th wheel I built. 24v is definitely the most practical way to go if doing large amounts of inverters and solar. Otherwise keeping it simple at 12v is the way to go.
I definitely top balance them. If you look at will prowse he's the king of solar and he recommend top balancing them
Ya I have learned so much from him and his channel. Great information
Talk about temps, charging dangers with crap bms, Grade A, B, C grade cells. Compression, enclosures oh my. Also curious how larger format cells handle internal vibration due to mass vs smaller cells. Good practice to top off 1 battery at a time or maybe 4 ao you can verify each cell before combining. Good luck in your travels.
Oh, these are great day sales. I didn’t necessarily compress them but I did use wood along with quarter inch foam to prevent expansion. I’m going to be doing a follow video to show the finished product.
Smidge confusing. When I grow up I'm going to be an electrical engineer.
It’s really simple when you start to break it down. Watch my solar Saturday series playlist
Not trying to troll anyone, but most people who have not studied some battery engineering are better off getting a professionally-made battery. The results will be safer and more consistent.
As others have noticed there are several errors in this video. Errors with Lithium batteries can unfortunately be dangerous in some cases.
Battleborn's battery prices fall along with others as the cell costs continue to fall.
Also, be very careful about getting batteries directly from China. Some bad sellers are selling factory rejects.
Always get Grade A cells. Not worth slaving a few bucks to have anything less. If you watch the update video you’ll see this setup is perfectly fine and works without any issue. You don’t need to study engineering to put this puzzle together. There’s just different levels of complexity you can add to make them safer or more secure or whatever it is you want to do.
Like the video.
Like the new lithium concept.
Love my AGM batteries and Onan 5.5!!
Everyone has different needs for sure. Glad you have what works for you.
In regards to top balancing, here lately, before I connect the bms (I'm using JKBMS's, which have a great active balancer in them), I mount all the bus bars, connect a 5A active balancer then I slowly charge it stepping at 3.4v per cell, then 3.45, 3.50, 3.55, 3.6... that's it. Then I routinely charge to 3.55v per cell. I really enjoy making my own packs.
That’s an interesting way of doing that with stepping the voltage. Not sure the real benefit there… any input?
@@WhyNotRV heh, to not cause an over voltage on a cell. Not that it happened to me or anything.
I'm with you on this - I top balanced my current setup using 8 280ah cells for a 4s2p pack. I charged them with a BMS connected until they got to around 3.5 per cell then setup the top balance.
Had my cheap power supply feeding 3.65V - had it gone crazy it would have easily destroyed my cells.
Next build I am going to do what you did and utilize a BMS with an active balancer or use an external active balancer. You're taking big risks with your cells if you're doing a traditional top balance.
@@MyGoogleRUclips Yeah, the JKBMS has a good active balancer, where you can set the balance voltages. I have a dedicated active balancer (heltec?) which runs all the time and is not voltage trigger based. It is great for top balancing from time to time, but I don't leave it connected on a regular basis. Doing this method, my cells have stayed very balanced for 3 years now (on the oldest packs).
@@markseamans4682 I am using an external active balancer off of Amazon and have my Victron BMV 712 turn it on at around 3.45 v per cell and then absorb for two hours at 3.55. So far it is has worked really well. Pulls the cells to under 5mv.
Please fuse for the appropriate wire size. This is a huge fire risk. Because it works doesn't mean it's safe. Boatowner's Mechanic and Electrical Manual by Nigel Calder. Please buy a copy ASAP!
Fuse or reset able breaker is definitely needed. This was not the fully finished install. I’ll be doing a follow up video for everyone
I see that your charger inverter is laying flat on the floor. Please remember this is not recommended by Victron as it does not allow for adequate cooling when in use.
If you watch my update video you’ll see that I added a fan directly under the coil in the inverter in order to pull heat away from the inverter and another fan in that cubby the I ver is in to remove heat from the whole area.
Middle ground compromise would be EG4 server rack batteries 5kw 400AH per rack at $1500 each.
The Server Rack style batteries are great for sure. Unfortunately for most those won’t fit in their basic battery boxes or current battery locations. For custom builds they are a definite great and amazing option for sure.
A follow-up video showing your final install (with the BMS' secured, where the fuses are, insulation between the cells, etc) would be helpful. In other words, address all the comments (which I just read) made by folks.
I will do just that. Should I make it a short (less than a minute)? Or regular long form? Maybe I’ll do both.
@@WhyNotRV However long it needs to be in order to cover all the issues raised in this comments section. Without needless redundancy, please. :)
I’ll work on it. I appreciate it.
Great minds think alike. We're retired FT RVers who love to boondock most of the time in an older motorhome. We wanted to replace our old pair of GC-2 golf cart batteries that lived in the small space under the steps of our motorhome with the most capacity lithium batteries that could fit in this small space. If we went with Battleborns, or other pre-made LiFePo-4 batteries, we could only fit 2 -100ah batteries in this space, so we decided to build our own LiFePo-4 batteries out of 8, 280ah prismatic cells. This gives us a 560ah 12v battery. We chose a Heltec 350amp BMS, to start the onboard generator in our motorhome, along with a 5a active balancer to keep all the cells synched up. We built our 12v battery with grade "A" LiFePo-4 prismatic cells having a 6,000-cycle manufacturer projected life at 100% DOD. This means that if we cycled them 100% every single day, 365 days a year, they would last over 16 years! So they're obviously going to wear out from age before they wear out from cycling as we only use 15-20% of their capacity daily giving us enough reserve capacity for several days of bad weather before we have to run our generator for charging. It only cost us $1,500 to build this 560ah battery, including the high amp BMS, active balancer and adjustable charger for top balancing. They fit perfectly under the steps of our motorhome where our old pair of golf cart batteries used to reside, saving 35lbs while having over 5 times the energy storage capacity. We insulated the battery compartment, cut a 1" hole in our step risers and installed a tiny computer CPU fan to keep this space at close to room temperature, so we don't have to worry about the BMS shutting down charging if they get too cold - or their life reduced from getting too hot. We've found Lithiums charge much faster than our old lead acid batteries did and are typically full before 1:00. This 560ah battery assembly, including our 620w liftable solar array, wiring, breakers, a new Progressive Dynamics 80a Li compatible converter/charger, a 1,000w Renogy PSW inverter to run our TV, PC, ice maker, etc. (we use our 5,500w generator to run our ACs and microwave), an Epever 50a MPPT charge controller for our solar panels, a Lnex battery monitor/shunt, and a Renogy DC-DC charger (to protect the alternator) only cost us around $3,600 as we did the entire installation ourselves.
We started our build 4 years ago with a custom built 620-watt liftable solar array mounted on the side of our motorhome. It serves as a nice bedroom window awning too. It practically lifts itself to the desired angle with a couple gas struts and it's easy to clean with a windshield squeegee, standing safely on the ground. By mounting our current solar array on the side of our MH, we left the roof free to rack 8, 550W Sungold Power solar panels down the length of our 35ft Class A. We'll be tackling this project after the first of the year. We will be racking ours about 13" off the roof to clear our front AC shroud and vents. Rather than buying individual components, we will be using a Sungold Power all-in-one 48V, 5,000W, 120V PSW Inverter, 100a MPPT charge controller with a 40a ac battery charger. The reason we chose this all-in-one is because the idle power consumption is only 25 watts - and it's only $800. Most this size have an idle power consumption over 70 watts and cost at least $1,200. Our 48v battery bank will use 16, 304ah prismatic cells like you have (15.5Kwh.) So together with our 560ah (7.1 Kwh)12v bank, we will have a total of 22.6 Kwh of batteries onboard - the equivalent of about 18, 100ah Battleborn batteries. We will also have over 5,000 watts of solar to keep this massive bank charged, while powering our air conditioners too. We will be replacing our old rear 13.5k btu rooftop Dometic AC with a super high-efficiency 12k Btu 48v DC mini-split heat pump that only draws 750 watts at peak output and less than 500 watts when it's cooling normally. This second phase will cost about $10k, including the heat pump, as we plan on doing all the work ourselves. Our 2nd phase will provide 24/7 off-grid air conditioning and supplemental heat from the heat pump and allow occasional usage of our front rooftop Furrion AC to cool things down quickly during peak afternoon demand, as well as give us whole house 120v ac power. This will give us total off-grid electrical independence, allowing us to keep our generator in reserve for emergency use only.
That sounds like it’s going to be an absolute incredible build. Have you watched my series on my build for the Montana yet? If not I highly recommend it. I did a 5000+ watt solar array on top of the fifth wheel. Dual victron 48 V inverters. The whole shebang, onboard generator, and what not.
@@WhyNotRV I just watched the vid on your Montana. That's a huge array! I plan on dropping my front 2 panels like you did to help direct wind over the array, keeping it more stable while traveling. Did you notice it affect their output much? I plan on making one series string with these because of the all-in-one inverter/charge controller/charger's requirements. The 100a 48v MPPT charge controller will handle a 5,500W 500Voc PV Array so I'm planning on a 400Voc (336 Vmp) string as the input current is limited to only 18a, which is OK, as the Isc of the panels is only 14.1a. Victron equipment sure is nice, but too expensive for my budget. This 5,000w PSW all-in-one Sungold power unit is only $849, comes with a 2 yr warranty and lifetime tech support so you can't beat the price. I've spoken to a fellow RVer who's been using this brand reliably for about a decade, so I trust his recommendation.
Yes Victron is expensive but I find value in it that makes it all worth it personally. I will always have and use Victron but there are definitely plenty of other brands out there that work, function and get the job done
I did not specifically notice and difference in output.
If this was a new system, I would definitely consider 24 or even 48V system. But I understand you have a 12V inverter already.
Yes, I would’ve done 24v I. This setup if O had done it from the beginning and who knows, down the road I can easily rearrange for a 24v system and upgrade the inverter to the 5kva version that’s available with 24v
Any particular reason you didn't go 4P4S on your pack, with a single 250A BMS? Would have saved on cabling and been less worry about cell/pack voltages drifting apart.
Several reasons. I need 300 amp for full power accountability. Big BMS fails… screwed. One of these fails… redundancy… I have an easy cheap part to replace and my other batteries still keep the rig going in the mean time.
The battle borns were great when they came out but they are not power dense compared to a self built lithium battery.
Yes exactly. They do have outstanding customer service and support but I don’t feel they can justify the cost of those batteries. It’s crazy how much they charge for what you get
Welcome to the club! 48 kW of 48V goodness here... (that's around 600 lbs of battery)
That’s intense!!!
@@WhyNotRV I gotta run that 24k mini split!
Have you seen my Montana build? I did 48v dual inverters running a 240v minisplit and 240v dryer
@@WhyNotRV Yeah, we emailed back and forth about it a few times. Airflow was interesting.... Had to add a booster fan to the main plenum.
Oh ya!!! Hey Mark!!! 😂
Without the BMS and associated failure prone wires wagging in the wind it DOES NOT FIT in the same foot print!
Check out my Update video. I posted it about about two months after this video came out to show the complete final product. And yes, it still takes up the same footprint.
You have the victron, I would have went 48 volts, and use a 12v converter for your low voltage needs. Much better conversion rates and smaller wires.
I’ve been down that dark road before lol I might end up doing this as a but it already had a 12 V inverter
@@WhyNotRV I get you.. You had everything already setup for 12v anyway... Just a quick drop in replacement. Different if you were starting from scratch.
That’s exactly right. If designing a brand new system for this size setup I’d do 24v
Turn the light on your phone on so we can see what you’re doing
I had a light on majority of the time. Sorry if there was a section in the video that was missed.
Your energy density puts my CALB 100ah, 3.2v cells to shame. I have 48 of my cells in a 24v, 600ah config. Had I waited but wanted to test the tech. Wise decision to upgrade. Do you think you may config in future to use ONE bms? Will you be fabricating a box/container?
I don’t like doing just a single BMS. For individual be a message gives me redundancy in case something goes wrong with just one. Versus if I have just one really big expensive one and something goes wrong with it number one it’s more expensive to replace a number to my entire bank is useless without it. I did not fabricate a box or container. However, I did use quarter inch foam board around all four sides and then you stay 3” x 1” piece of wood on the front and left side to keep everything compressed and tight up against the walls.
For 12vdc you should use 4P 4S config
This is setup 4series cells for 12v and 4 sets in parallel
the cheapest upgrade would be, use the battleborn BMS and buy new cell
Not when I can resell the battle borns for almost the cost of these new cells
@@WhyNotRV i see. Maybe i miss in video you mention that
I don’t think I put it in the video itself. But I sold these three batteries for just under 600 bucks each. Which at the end of the day is a good deal for the person who wants to brand name and it is but can save some money.
don't let your insurance company see this, it is a fire hazard.
Definitely not a fire hazard but I appreciate the input. I will be doing a follow up video showing all of the additional stuff I did, such as adding foam, insulation board or on all four sides, as well as the top. Shelf above the presses down to create pressure and prevent any movement.
Still learning here: I'm a bit confused on why the 100A BMS on a 300A battery. 4 of those give you 400A?
100A BMS is IT’s max discharge rate. When 4 are in parallel that gives me a max discharge rate of 400 amps. The battery capacity is 304amp hours. Has nothing to do with the battery’s discharge capabilities. All 4 batteries together In Parallel give me 1216ah of total useable battery capacity. Hope this helps.
I'm sorry to be the guy to say this. And it really isn't your fault. The industry is so misleading by quoting amp hours all the time when it should be quoting watt hours. However, amp hours isn't a measure of capacity. In order to get a measure of capacity you have to multiply amp hours times volts to get watt hours. When you are building out a pack out of cells in series you add the voltages together but maintain the same amperage. So if you have four 3.2 volt 100AH cells and you put them in series you get 12.8 volts at 100ah. Meaning you get 1280 watt hours of capacity. Probably this is pretty similar to the watt hour capacity of the slightly larger battle born. The extra size of the battle born is accounted for by the bms being inside the case as well as the cells.
Ya it would be nice if everything was standardized as watt hours. The savings with DIY is just insane.
He built 4 300 amp hour 12 volt batteries. Each cell is 300 amp housr at 3.2 volts . Add 4 of the them for 12.8 volts and 300 amps hours about 3.5 kilo watt hours. That is 3 times the battle borns.
Exactly. Thank you
Each is his own.. I wouldn't use lithium I use deep cell deep cycles of battery.
Absolutely, but what is your reason for choosing a heavier, less efficient battery that you can’t discharge fully without risk of damaging? Also such minimal cycles available in them…?
Thank you so much for this information! I am very excited to implement a similar system for a Dodge Ram ProMaster van build I will be working on. One question for you; one of the reasons I was going to go with the Battle Born GameChanger was because it also supports heating the battery when needed. Do you know if these batteries can do the same or could be configured to do so?
You can build an enclosure for it and insulate it and put a battery heater in with it. Only reason for doing so is if it’s in an unconditioned space and you will be charging it in below freezing temps. Depending on your build you likely don’t need to heat them.
The BMS in the cardboard boxes is a nice touch. Do you have temperature control on each battery? By they way if you have any old Battle Borns sitting around I will buy them from you.
The battle boards are already sold. I do appreciate it. The cardboard boxes is the very definition of custom lol I added a layer of quarter inch thick foam insulation on top of the batteries in between the batteries and the cardboard boxes.
I love my battle born.
They’re still a great product just not worth the price
There are some great BMS about these days, for a bit more money. Daly is not one of them. It is far better to have a BMS with an active balancer like the JK.
Compressing the cells with end plates and threaded rod not only keeps the cells in compression but gives a way of fixing the cells down.
The wood you have along the base will create a hard point on the cells. How do you stop them bouncing and putting load on the busbars? This really is a very poor installation.
This unfortunately was t the full final install. I’ll be doing a follow up video to show the final product. But it’s secured from the top as well as more wood on the sides
@@WhyNotRV you should install the BMS away from,the batteries. Those cheap Daly BMS use passive balancing. Placing them on top of the batteries is not great. They use resistors to burn off the excess power from the highest cell. They will get warm. Far better to locate them on the bulkhead so they don't heat up your cells.
I don't understand why you would do a video of a half installed system. The work isn't in placing the batteries on a shelf, its in dressing all the cables to ensure its tidy and it will tolerate being vibrated and bounced around on the road without causing a short. The cables dont want to be full of joints. That is a disaster with lithium. The need minimum junctions to reduce potential high resistance. The ideal way to wire the batteries to a copper busbar, ensuring you have equal length cables on each battery.
bruh.....hell of a build, but, WAY over my head and cause Im skurred of electricity lol! All I wanna know is, are those battle borns for sale? LOL!! Thanks for the DIY, maybe some day my balls will drop and I'll man up to try this. earned a sub with this vid
I appreciate it. Unfortunately I have already sold the battle borns. It really is a quite simple thing to do. I’m gonna be doing another video to follow up on it as well as another bill video in the future of just a quick and simple one battery situation.
@@WhyNotRV look forward to the one battery build and follow up to this one 👍
Thank you again for watching!!!
The lithium polymer batteries will lose capacity about 4x faster than the lithium iron phosphate batteries. They are also much more unstable if they are punctured or overheated. That's why they aren't used by most manufacturers.
Since you won't be cycling these every day for years it's probably a reasonable tradeoff for this aapplication.
I don't know how much each type degrades with time (not cycles) but that would also be an important consideration.
Considering the price and the capacity of these cells I can see why you chose this setup.
These aren’t lithium polymer. They’re lithium iron phosphate.
I suspect they are selling lithium polymer batteries and calling them lithium iron phosphate. If they were lithium iron phosphate they would have the same power density as all the other lithium iron phosphate batteries on the market.
Maybe this company has figured out how to triple the power density of lithium iron phosphate batteries but I don't believe that's a reasonable assumption.
If they are lithium polymer they still have a use case for RVs that don't get used continuously like off grid home systems do.
Either you found a company that will dominate all other battery companies or they are scamming people.
I definitely understand your concern, I am extremely willing to bet that these are lithium iron phosphate. There are tons of cell providers that have a similar density all over the place. Pre-built batteries have extra casing and different pieces inside the box that make the footprint, not nearly as usable by comparison. There are tons of people on line who have tested these batteries for many years through thousands of cycles.
@@WhyNotRV I'd be interested in seeing a link to one of the teardowns you are referring to. I've see several and none had more than 10% extra volume associated with packaging and the BMS. Certainly not 300%.
I found a video by Will Prowse reviewing batteries with the same form factor and packaging as these so I guess you are right. I'm sure the packaging of the Battleborn battery doesn't have 300% wasted space though. I'm trying to understand the huge discrepancy.
Sorry for making a false assumption. These batteries now have my attention.
Not checking SOC of each battery before connecting even a few together is not a good idea. Definitely a bad idea to connect all together. One bad battery connected to all the others can create quite a disaster with all the combined power being available vs only the power of a few, should something go wrong.
I can understand where you’re coming from. I appreciate the comment.
When charge balancing the terminals should be placed opposite so as to share the current charge equally in a diagonal way
Ya I’ve had several people bring that up. In large amperage situations that’s beneficial. With low amps like this application for top balancing it’s pretty much irrelevant
Thank you for your great videos it teaches us the economics of power for cheaper and better brands on our current situations 🙏🙏💟
I appreciate it
Ok that’s great but Battleborn is so overpriced as are your suggested battery. Some of us aren’t made of money. That airstream probably cost more than my adjusted gross income
There are definitely cheaper manufactured batteries out there but you end up running into a similar issue of footprint and energy density. Building your own from whatever cells you can afford is going to be your cheapest option for most useable energy
I am going by what I have heard about lithium batteries but I have heard that the batteries need to be held in a way that prevents them from expanding to prevent them from expanding. You set yours up so they won't move around but are they contained with enough pressure to keep them from expanding?
I use wood framing to keep them in place and prevent expansion. Some people use a certain type of tape to hold them together and prevent expansion.
My only problem is that you did your top balance with these batteries with an unsafe, non-lithium charger and no BMS. This is not good. Never ever charge a lithium battery without a BMS
An understandable fear… but not necessary. Watch diy with will prowse. He is a professionally educated electrical engineer and does it this way as well. Nothing wrong with it if you know what you’re doing. The danger is people not knowing and doing something wrong.
Could you share the website, name of company etc where you got the batteries and BMS possibly ? I'd like to build a 36 volt battery pack for my EZGO Golf cart. Thanks, good video letting others know there are alternatives out there.
It’s all in the description of the video. Thanks for watching!!!
How many solar panels do you have and what are the specs on them?
Currently on this rig just the stock airstream setup which is 4 100w panels. Nothing crazy. I am planning to do about 1000 watts on here this winter
So you're saying it's triple capacity! Triple? As in three times as much?! Holy crap dude
Yeah, I might’ve gotten a little carried away. Lol.
@@WhyNotRV 🤣🤣🤣
Where did you get your bus bars? Did they come with the batteries you purchased, or do you have a separate source for them?
This came with the batteries I ordered from EEL however, you can also order them by themselves from EEL
Correct English is not "less mistakes" but "fewer mistakes". "Less" is for stuff like sugar, or sand, i.e., stuff you can't count but need to weigh. "Fewer" is for stuff you can count like calories or mistakes.
Yes, I am aware. I just like the way it sounds. Plus, it gets the point across
why do you set up in series and not parallel ????
These are setup both lol. 4 series cells makes a 12v battery those are then setup in parallel to make the 1216ah bank
Why not make 4 long battery's with all the positives by the wall and the negatives by the door?
Definitely more than one option when building your own. The way these bus bars are for these particular cells with the dual bolts I chose this setup
12V at high current is an inneficient setup, go 24V or 48V.
Yes for larger systems I also recommend 24v. For a simple inverter setup 12v is fine. If doing dual inverters or a lot of solar… bump to a 24v system
Each battery is one cell. You can’t add the amp hours when in series.
Each one cell battery is 3.2v at 304ah, putting 4 in series is 12.8v at 304ah. Now taking 4 sets of those in parallel gives you 12.8v at 1216ah.
@@WhyNotRVit’s impossible for those cells to be 304ah. That would make them the most energy dense cells
On the market by a long shot. The current highest capacity it’s 120wh per lb. The Amazon listing has these batteries as 5.3kg. So 5.3x2.2=11.6 11.6x120= 1399.2wh. So at 12.8v that’s a 110ah battery.
Unfortunately, you are wrong. There are cells that even though upwards of 400 amp hours in these prismatic cells I did a full capacity test and there’s no way I can pull 1200 amp hours out of cells that you’re claiming would only be 100+ amp hours. These are 304 amp hours all day long maybe you should watch some of Will Prowse videos to further your education on the cells themselves
@@WhyNotRV maybe they have the wrong weight listed. That would explain it. Do you have the raw weight per cell?
I never weighed them myself but I’m sure what they have listed is correct. I remember feeling them and thinking that it was a pretty accurate number.
Quick question;
How did you protect the DIY batts from over charging? Also, I think those DIY batts need to have some kind of rigid strap or banding to keep them from swelling?
I added a wood frame to prevent swelling. Some people use a special tape. Nothing I have will overcharge these but the BMS protects them as well.
i hope you clean is up wires
I later cleaned everything up and added insulation board around and on top between battery terminals and BMS boxes
Well done.
Thank you
Has the rig burned down yet? So much wrong, it’s overwhelming.
Nope. It’s all perfectly safe and I’ll be posting an update video with the finished product soon.
OK, I am intrigued. My boat (older Hatteras) has a 32 volt system. I have two banks of four 8V lead acid batteries, one for starting the engines and one for House. Problem with 8V batteries is that no one makes them in anything but lead acid. Is it is possible for these cells to be hooked up to make two 33V banks? Just a thought.
Yes, you can absolutely hook these up and series up to the desired voltage you want. The sales coming 3.2 nominal you just have to find a BMS that would be for what you’re looking for.
I guess that I am headed down this rabbit hole! If it works, I'll let you know.@@WhyNotRV
Ya I’m curious
This is not a bash on your build, but I’d be worried about the quality of cells. Lithium fires are a bit of pain to extinguish….
These are grade A cells deity no issues whatsoever. Same stuff that’s inside numerous brands of lithium batteries out there.
I agree that you need a follow-up video showing the final install. l realize you are not finished with the installation. But, this video leaves a very bad last impression as to the electrical and fire safety of this install.
I appreciate it. Yes it’s in the works. I have a few weeks worth of videos already going. But it’ll follow
When top balance...should the positive and negative be on the same side of batteries or opposite like your normally hooked up?
When you top balance, the cells should all be in parallel meaning all positive’s together and all negative’s together the amperage and charging is so low and slow it doesn’t matter if you connect the charger on one end or opposite ends. That’s the point of the “balance”. Just let it do its thing
And do you have to reprogram anything because you're switching battery type
No. I already had lithium although I did alter the charge profile for longevity
You would have to be insane to pay Battleborn prices anymore. $900 for 12v 100ah!.
Exactly. It’s insanity
You should probably address some of the huge trade offs in safety and reliability. YES you are dramatically increasing your energy density but at the expense of everything else and you are going to be sleeping in that thing. The average user should stick with the UL listed Battleborn particularly in a mobile installation.
There is tons of other manufacturers that offer similar batteries and UL listing but for significantly less than battle born.
@@WhyNotRV I inadvertently typed battleborn instead of battery. Although BB's UL listing is for the entire assembly and not just the cells themselves. Most UL listed lithium are significantly more expensive than BB. I don't mean to disparage your system, it's badass for sure.
No worries, I appreciate it.
Have you ever witnessed a lithium battery fire and what it does to an RV? I have.....
I'll stick with HD lead acid batteries.
I appreciate the comment, yes, lithium fire is no joke and you need a special fire extinguisher in order to put one out. However, the likelihood of these catching on fire is extremely low. Multiple things have to go really really wrong multiple times in order for that to happen.
If you look at ABYC which is the US marine standards association you will find that LiFePo4 is a very safe battery technology. Fire is not an issue with this formulation and it is the safest for both marine and rv installations. Other lithium batteries - eg cobalt - are an issue and should not be used.@@WhyNotRV
Thank you for the extra comment here. I appreciate it.
There are different types of lithium batteries . Lithium Cobolt and Lithium Iron, lithium iron do not have the thermal run away as other lithium chemistries have.
There is a great video were they do a destuctive test on them , lithium 4 won and never had a themal run away.
Thanks for this additional info
Excellent video!
Thank you!!!!
hello can you give the two display unit models that you have at time mark 22:28 I would be interested in looking at the specs on both those units ......thanks
The top small round one is the display unit for the Victron BMV-712 amzn.to/487oGxL the Other larger display is for the Victron cerbo gx, amzn.to/45Po4eS this is its display unit the touch 70 amzn.to/45JE2Hp
Can I buy your old battle born batteries?! Mostly off grid -Western Colorado Camper
Already sold. Thank you though
So the cost of cells were 640x4=2560?
That’s correct
640 per cell but you need at least 4 for 12V.....plus bms
It’s $640 for 4 cells and the BMS I used is $40. So $680 total for 1 12v battery that’s 304ah
@@WhyNotRV thats not bad then
Exactly
So this may be a dumb question due to I really don’t know much about solar and stuff. My question is can I replace regular deep cycle battery with something like this without solar? I know my trailer has a 100a solar plug on it but I think it’s literally just wires as nothing else. Have a huge front storage are to house batteries! What would you suggest?
You can absolutely replace your batteries with something like this and have no solar or anything solar related. Of course, depending on your RV converter, you’ll likely have to replace it to one that is capable of charging lithium batteries. Or have adjustable charging parameters to properly charge and maintain these.
@@WhyNotRV thank you so much for the info. I would love to do solar and have a lot of open real estate on the roof of our trailer but unfortunately just don’t know where to start. Have a great day and thank you for all you do for us.
Absolutely! Have you watched my solar Saturday series of videos yet? I posted them last summer a couple weeks in a row. I really break down every single component of solar and it gives you a really good base knowledge to start off on. I have it as a playlist on my channel. If you have not watched it, I highly recommend it.
@@WhyNotRV I have not but I absolutely will. Thank you.
Anytime!!!
One question... i always understood that in multi cells, or batteries, the pos & neg should be attached on opposite ends?
If I were doing a single connection to the bus system then yes you want to do that. The other option is what I represent here, which is keeping all of the positive and negative cables, exact, same length, and putting them all to the bus system equally.
@@WhyNotRV Got it.
Thanks for the reply!
Absolutely!
Please don't leave those bms like that, looks like a fire story.
They weren’t. Cleaned up a bit, added some foam board on top of the batteries for insulation. Secured in place
You have done it wrong !!!! you should have done 4 batteries in parallel in a pack and then 4 packs in series with just one BMS; would be more stable. or just put all 16 in series and build a 48V pack. I just do not understand this 12V trend going on in the RV community.
I have done the 48v setup before. In this RVs case if I had a blank slate I’d do 24v. Majority of RVers want to keep it simple with 12v so that’s what I demonstrated here. This is not done wrong. There are definitely more than one way to do it and get the same result. I chose this setup for several reasons.
@@WhyNotRV yes, but even for a 12v system you made it extra complicated. 2 extra BMS-es + 4 extra big cables.
Redundancy. Having a single BMS for each 12v set gives me the redundancy that if one were to go down I still have 3 individual sets that can carry the system.
cool i was going to buy battle borne but im not anymore thanks.
There are plenty of other brands out there that still get the same job done but there’s nothing like a DIY battery.
I see these a whole lot..... people ditching their Battle Born batt's.....! I wonder why....?
Extremely overpriced batteries for what they are. Of course their warranty is amazing but not worth spending three times the amount.
Because they buy counterfeit cells on Amazon with grossly overrated specs and people like to hate on the best. Battleborns are the most bulletproof option out there and they charge a premium for it. These amazon EVE cells are counterfeit. There's plenty of info out there on how to tell the genuine ones from the fake ones, and the ones in this video are the fakes. Might work fine for a while, but I wouldn't stick them in anything not fireproof.
Awesome information. Any ideas on a heater for these if I live in a colder temp area?
Right on Amazon there are battery heaters that you can use. You can also put these in a enclosure with some good insulation and Juster discharge and recharge self producing heat will keep them pretty warm. You can always have a heater in the bottom of the enclosure if needed.
How much solar do you have ?
At time of this video only 400w. Plan is for 1600w on this rig. More if I can fit it.
Can I ask, how long did the top down balancing take?
I didn’t record it. I had let it sit for probably a week or two. It all depends on your charger (mine is very low amperage), size of your cells (mine were huge) and number of cells (16 is a lot).
LiFePO4 is what you linked, but you said lithium ion near the end. LiFePO4 are better in so many ways than the "old" lithium ion. Minor point.
Might of just said it out of habit. But thank you for noting that.
so you don't make mistakes..........so I can make your mistakes?
not a fuse in sight......awesome
so explain why you didn't configure them to 24 volt or 36 volt config?
all that money on battery's and cheaper out on the bms lol
There’s fuses where they are needed. Keeping it 12v keeps in the main rv space. Yes 24v is more efficient but not always applicable. I already had this 12v inverter otherwise I would have (and may in the future) switch to 24v as I do the solar.
How long did it take to top balance all 16 of your cells
A long time 😂 I didn’t keep track. Multiple days
Does your BMS have blue tooth? for convenience?
These ones are not but they have the ones with it for a bit extra cost
You seriously need to connect one side as a positive main and one side as a negative Main. It won’t balance if you are charging at one end….
And why by all the gods did you do that in your house.
If you’re talking about during the initial top balance, at the low amperage I was charging them, it really doesn’t make a difference. Nothing wrong with either way. No danger doing it in the house. Not sure what you’re referring to. Will Prowse does it the same way and he’s probably one of the smartest, most professionally educated guys out there doing this type of stuff
According to your link for the battery, they are 300ah each, you have 16 cells=4800ah you said 1200ah?
These were “304” rated. Some will say “300” but will pull 308-312. All extremely similar and basically the same thing. Just depends on how they choose to word it
I was referring to your installed bank of batteries.@@WhyNotRV
Sorry. So it would be 4800ah at 3.2v… when you connect in series, the voltage increases but the amp hours remain the same, when you connect parallel, the voltage remains the same but the capacity increases. Hence 4 cells together is a 12v battery at 304ah. Connect 4 of those together in parallel giving me still 12v but now 1218ah of capacity
@@WhyNotRV That would still give you 4800 in parallel, 16 cells
16 cells … the individual cells are 3.2v nominal. You need to put four in series to make a 12v battery. Make sense?
Adding one more battery to the bank does not quadruple your overall capacity. This is fifth grade arithmetic. Why is this hard?
Watch the whole video friend. I used the same footprint as if it were adding 1 more battle born which would be 400 amp hours of space, HOWEVER, my batteries are over 300ah EACH times 4 is 1200 amp hours of useable battery capacity. I did a capacity test to show this. If you still have questions let me know!!!
😳 Das some janky wiring my guy, way too much to type so I'll just point out what was done correctly. 👉NOTHING👈
Thank you for watching! I appreciate the input.