I'm planning to run a 10' loop of 1-1/4" copper through a 2" concrete topcoat in a landing in front of the bathroom to absorb the drainwater heat, and in the climate where I live overheating is never a concern, and any potential heat gain is a welcome treat.
$500+ at HD, not worth it. It would take 20 years to pay for itself. Especially in Un-regulated Provinces. 20% of my actual monthly gas usage charge is peanuts
It would be one thing if the drain water pipe were itself intertwined with the recovery system, but its not and have you ever put your hand on the waste water pipe? Its not holding waste water long enough to get very hot. I'd love to see someone with a stronger science background cover these because they look like complete hooey to me as is.
Most waste water pipes are not made out of a thermally conductive pipe like copper so you won't feel the heat. The return on investment really depends on how much you currently pay to heat your water and if you shower or bathe. You'll get far better ROI if you have electric hot water and take a lot of showers than if you have a gas boiler and take a lot of bathes. I believe heat exchangers like this have been proven to raise the temperature of the water entering a hot water tank by 10C @2.5Gpm. The specific heat capacity of water is 4,200 Joules per kilogram per degree Celsius (J/kg°C). This means that it takes 4,200 J to raise the temperature of 1 kg of water by 1°C so you can work out how much energy it's recovering eg, 4,200J x 9.5L x 10C= 399,000J/min....or 378 BTUs. Granted I'm pretty tired so you might want to double check the math.
can anyone verify the number of 4-6 degrees input results in 25 degrees output? If this is correct, it could enable you to run a very cheap electric tankless as that water temp is much easier to heat. I think if I had one of these, I would also aim a heating run from the furnace at it...why not use some of that heat to preheat your water before hitting a tankless heater?? Makes sense to me...but the numbers have to be real...not Trudeau numbers.
The joke. Energy is energy. The savings in preheating water for your highly efficient hot water tank are the same as if you had a 55 gallon stainless drum that would capture shower water in your basement until it cooled to room temperature and then drained. This would be a simple system which would reclaim all of the usable energy in the waste water. Heck even run a coil of your incoming cold water through the tank. It isn't the temp raise in the incoming water that is energy savings it is the temperature drop of the discharged water
I'm running a tankless water heater and don't preheat and store water that I'm not using; The most efficient (and practical) method I could find. How will this steampunk dumahickey help? Trick question: It won't. Laughable "savings" at a nickel a month for a mere $500 investment.
In your case you can send the water up to replace cold water in the same shower faucet so it will mix hot and warm .In my opinion this system is pure a waste , couple of generations to recover your money.
My idea would be to replace part of the pipe with a multistage turbine generator that simply spins when waste water exits. Alot of potential energy is lost. It doesn't have to be costly but would work best in a house that already has some kind of energy storage but it could be passed directly to a heating element directly like the hot water tank. What this guy has made is basically a gigantic uninsulated copper heat sink that tries to grab some thermal from a single pass and divert the thermal directly. The resources required would mostly be some pipe, turbines from stainless steel or something, and a small generator which is basically a converted normal motor.
When I first heard of this I called BS. He made a lot of claims here " hot water falls down the drain. 1. my shower is mixed with cold water it's more warm than hot, 2. my waste line would have to be full of hot water to get that type of rise in water temp. a shower would create a trickle down that pipe. 3. As for the 20% savings in my hot water savings more BS, you have no way of breaking out your gas or electric bill to prove it. For a residential home this is a loser. maybe a restaurant.
Not just restaurants. Industrial locations often use hot water is part of their process (not just space heating) for 24 hours a day, 7 days per week. The savings can be massive. Other applications that make sense include: dormitories, hotels, prisons, multi-family housing, long-term care facilities, hospitals, military bases, etc.
Snake oil: 1. this device works best if its not insulated. LOL. you will need to pay for more heat in your basement with this chilling device. 2. water passes by this sooooo fast it doesn't have time to extract the heat.........(seriously less than 1 second) 3. the majority of the heat exchange occurs from ambient room this is installed in. so you will pay more to heat your house. 4. best use case is hot sewer gases rushing past.....continuously.....but there is no guarantee of this.....as its dependent on your stack height city sewer hydro dynamics. Salesmen will FUDGE the efficiency to make a sale. the true test includes: 1. fully insulated stack. 2. temp in 3. temp out. THEY WONT SHOW YOU THAT LOL! Dude. (PEng)
I've installed quite a few of these and the difference in water temperature at the inlet versus outlet is actually very significant. Ice cold, causing condensation on the way in and lukewarm coming out.
20% water cost savings, BULLSHIT! I've been plumbing for 36 years and never seen so much nonsense. Please correct me but the energy used to manufacture etc will never ever compensate. Please someone correct me on this.
It's a terrible, terrible design; but in theory drain water heat recovery makes a lot of sense. I'm currently running tests on how much temperature is lost from a shower head to the drain and it is very minor.
it would be funny if the pipes get punctured and then crap water would get sucked into the fresh water, get mixed up and you'd end up with the filth all over you. ha
Potable water pipes are under pressure and your drain is not. So that's impossible to get drain water into your drinking water from this type of system.
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Thanks so much! i know this videos 9 years old haha
but i moved into a house and wondered what the hell this was XD
Researching for the exact same reason! 😂
I'm planning to run a 10' loop of 1-1/4" copper through a 2" concrete topcoat in a landing in front of the bathroom to absorb the drainwater heat, and in the climate where I live overheating is never a concern, and any potential heat gain is a welcome treat.
Would a long trap coming off the bottom increase the transfer?
Damn
So you have to meticulously design the plumbing so this makes sense.
You'd also wanna have POU water heaters
$500+ at HD, not worth it. It would take 20 years to pay for itself. Especially in Un-regulated Provinces. 20% of my actual monthly gas usage charge is peanuts
It would be one thing if the drain water pipe were itself intertwined with the recovery system, but its not and have you ever put your hand on the waste water pipe? Its not holding waste water long enough to get very hot. I'd love to see someone with a stronger science background cover these because they look like complete hooey to me as is.
Most waste water pipes are not made out of a thermally conductive pipe like copper so you won't feel the heat. The return on investment really depends on how much you currently pay to heat your water and if you shower or bathe. You'll get far better ROI if you have electric hot water and take a lot of showers than if you have a gas boiler and take a lot of bathes. I believe heat exchangers like this have been proven to raise the temperature of the water entering a hot water tank by 10C @2.5Gpm. The specific heat capacity of water is 4,200 Joules per kilogram per degree Celsius (J/kg°C). This means that it takes 4,200 J to raise the temperature of 1 kg of water by 1°C so you can work out how much energy it's recovering eg, 4,200J x 9.5L x 10C= 399,000J/min....or 378 BTUs. Granted I'm pretty tired so you might want to double check the math.
can anyone verify the number of 4-6 degrees input results in 25 degrees output? If this is correct, it could enable you to run a very cheap electric tankless as that water temp is much easier to heat. I think if I had one of these, I would also aim a heating run from the furnace at it...why not use some of that heat to preheat your water before hitting a tankless heater?? Makes sense to me...but the numbers have to be real...not Trudeau numbers.
The joke. Energy is energy. The savings in preheating water for your highly efficient hot water tank are the same as if you had a 55 gallon stainless drum that would capture shower water in your basement until it cooled to room temperature and then drained. This would be a simple system which would reclaim all of the usable energy in the waste water. Heck even run a coil of your incoming cold water through the tank. It isn't the temp raise in the incoming water that is energy savings it is the temperature drop of the discharged water
I'm running a tankless water heater and don't preheat and store water that I'm not using; The most efficient (and practical) method I could find. How will this steampunk dumahickey help? Trick question: It won't. Laughable "savings" at a nickel a month for a mere $500 investment.
In your case you can send the water up to replace cold water in the same shower faucet so it will mix hot and warm .In my opinion this system is pure a waste , couple of generations to recover your money.
@@daku08 Are you saying a tankless heater is a waste?
The heat recovery system (Thermo Drain ) is a waste.
My idea would be to replace part of the pipe with a multistage turbine generator that simply spins when waste water exits. Alot of potential energy is lost. It doesn't have to be costly but would work best in a house that already has some kind of energy storage but it could be passed directly to a heating element directly like the hot water tank. What this guy has made is basically a gigantic uninsulated copper heat sink that tries to grab some thermal from a single pass and divert the thermal directly. The resources required would mostly be some pipe, turbines from stainless steel or something, and a small generator which is basically a converted normal motor.
The only problem with your idea is usually the toilet,sinks,showers usually use the same down pipe and waste would clog the system up.
When I first heard of this I called BS. He made a lot of claims here " hot water falls down the drain. 1. my shower is mixed with cold water it's more warm than hot, 2. my waste line would have to be full of hot water to get that type of rise in water temp. a shower would create a trickle down that pipe. 3. As for the 20% savings in my hot water savings more BS, you have no way of breaking out your gas or electric bill to prove it. For a residential home this is a loser. maybe a restaurant.
Not just restaurants. Industrial locations often use hot water is part of their process (not just space heating) for 24 hours a day, 7 days per week. The savings can be massive. Other applications that make sense include: dormitories, hotels, prisons, multi-family housing, long-term care facilities, hospitals, military bases, etc.
Snake oil: 1. this device works best if its not insulated. LOL. you will need to pay for more heat in your basement with this chilling device.
2. water passes by this sooooo fast it doesn't have time to extract the heat.........(seriously less than 1 second)
3. the majority of the heat exchange occurs from ambient room this is installed in. so you will pay more to heat your house.
4. best use case is hot sewer gases rushing past.....continuously.....but there is no guarantee of this.....as its dependent on your stack height city sewer hydro dynamics.
Salesmen will FUDGE the efficiency to make a sale.
the true test includes: 1. fully insulated stack. 2. temp in 3. temp out. THEY WONT SHOW YOU THAT LOL!
Dude. (PEng)
I've installed quite a few of these and the difference in water temperature at the inlet versus outlet is actually very significant. Ice cold, causing condensation on the way in and lukewarm coming out.
@@ryanpeter6785 Hello, I'm interested if there has been done som research on this unit? I would like to hear solid numbers.
lol what a waste of copper.
20% water cost savings, BULLSHIT! I've been plumbing for 36 years and never seen so much nonsense. Please correct me but the energy used to manufacture etc will never ever compensate. Please someone correct me on this.
It's a terrible, terrible design; but in theory drain water heat recovery makes a lot of sense. I'm currently running tests on how much temperature is lost from a shower head to the drain and it is very minor.
@@velianlodestone1249 Thanks and Merry Christmas!
it would be funny if the pipes get punctured and then crap water would get sucked into the fresh water, get mixed up and you'd end up with the filth all over you. ha
Potable water pipes are under pressure and your drain is not. So that's impossible to get drain water into your drinking water from this type of system.
That is super unlikely.