ARE POLYURETHANE BUSHINGS WORTH IT? (Subframe & differential bushings review)
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- Опубликовано: 7 июл 2024
- Part 1: • E36 M3 Subframe Remova...
Part 2: • E36 M3 Subframe & LSD ...
Part 3: • E36 M3 GETS NEW DIFF A...
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I needed this channel in my life, I've been in love with the E36 since I was 10, 18 years have passed and finally I'm building my dream car, an E36 S54, I plan to keep it forever! Greetings from Costa Rica.
How’s the build coming along ?
Keep it up I learn so much from your channel, just got a e36m3 last week, and your channel is always my go to thank you
Awesome. I've had the bushings and reinforcements just sitting in my toolbox for about a year and I'm finally getting around to doing it and can't wait! Keep up the videos!
Thanks mate! I have an e36 project in progress myself and I will change those for sure. Congrats for your channel, great content!
Great video, just removed my rear subframe and this review helped me decide which poly bushings to get!
Thanks for vids Gavin keep them coming!
Damn it finally droped been waiting to long for this !!! What up Gavin!!!!
Very, very helpful indeed. I really enjoyed these videos, super informative. I'm definitely going to do this to me E36M. Thanks
Thank you for the update! Glad you like it, knew it would make you happy. Good review also, both sides satisfied! I don't see why wouldn't you go with poli bushings in a performance car either way..
And again, your car is so damn beautiful. I bought another one (92 coupe 325i) and it's pretty mint but I really fall in love with yours. If you have some time maybe you can upload some images of it? I'd like to have them in my PC and Facebook.
Cheers!
Thats a great way to describe it, 'not tototally solid'. I run 95a everywhere except the motor mounts and 88a in the diff and have had the same feeling. I felt like I should've gotten condor bits because I think its not still enough for me. The 88a bushings from ECS dont whine a bit though I still wish I went with 95a there
E36 is perfectly stanced, beautiful. I’ll be doing my Saab 9-5 sub bushings like this for sure.
Have all the poly bushing mods like you do with AKGs 95A, but I would recommend Driveshaft Shop single piece driveshaft (I have the cromoly), which took the car from 8.5 to 11 !!! Highly recommended.
Never cared much for the e36 but your channel makes them look so damn good. Keep up the great content. Subscribed
Welcome to the channel!
Yes, I had them on my 1992 E36 332i and 1999 E36 M3. They are totally worth it.
superpro bushings has been great to my e46 along with the increase caster front control arms, a bit expensive but worth every penny
Everything you've said about poly bushings is 100% accurate. I just got some AKG polys installed all around my 95 M and NVH is noticeable, but it's definitely worth it, considering the upgraded response and road feel. I also had a complete suspension refresh with some ground control coilovers, so it's been a night and day comparison after the complete install. The car just feels much more responsive and you just feel "confident" knowing the car won't rip itself apart. Lol.
Justin Rodriguez did you do 75D or 95a?
that intro was sick love the beat.
Thanks for the thorough review. I’ve been waiting a while for it!
I actually purchased the same subframe bushings on Black Friday but went with oem rubber bushings on the diff because I didn’t want to get the highway whine. I’m replacing all the control arm ball joints and bushings while I’m in there. Just waiting for the weather to get better before I can install everything.
Thanks and keep the vids coming
Good luck with the install man! 👍
I’ve got 95A on the subframe and diff and don’t notice highway whine at all. Then again I also have a fairly loud exhaust and bucket seats so nvh isn’t really a concern
Nathan fair enough. My car is mostly stock minus sport suspension - Koni/Dinan springs. I daily drive and need to maintain an acceptable level of comfort, hence my concerns about nvh
Zeid h perfectly reasonable. I like my nvh to a point. Long as the exhaust isn’t too loud/lots of drone and the shocks aren’t a full blown track setup like 12k+ springs I don’t mind it
"while im in there" 😂👌
Nice job gavin!!!
Thanks man!
Been waiting for this video! I'll bet you've been done for two weeks but couldn't stop burnin' rubber to post the vid!
Haha that might be true...
we can see happiness on your face
Have you ever rebuilt the shifter in this car? It looks like it’s tight and stiff. If so, what did you replace / what kit did you use. Thanks in advance!
Awesome been seriously debating on going full poly on my E46 sedan, this video has sold me on them. I am just deciding if I want to go with Revshift or Garagistic.
Hey bud, thinking about doing this to my '05 325i, what'd you end up going with (Rev or Garag) and how're they lasting/feeling over time?
@@djm355killer went with garagistic, and they have held up very well. It's been a little over a year and no issues to speak of. They do increase NVH though.
@@andrewlopez314 What would you say is the worst part of poly bushings? I don't care about harshness; I drive on my coils stiffest setting's so i don't rub AS MUCH 🤣
Yo I commune in that area in my 92 318i all the time!! Shits crazy seeing you zoom past those buildings so quick lmaooooo
I loved the diff whine in my 03 330i. Going to do this to my 95 e36 now
Yeah I definitely notice it but it isn't obnoxious or anything. 👍
@@TreatsOnTheStreets yeah same for me. I miss it lol
Now it's time for e46 purple tag steering rack install :D
The silver tag from a Z3 has less turn lock to lock but needs adapter bushings I think 🤓
Z3 rack next. Trust me, that will make the car feel AMAZING thru turns. Almost like it’s a go kart
Blues Clues M3
I got the e46 zhp rack. It’s an awesome upgrade, but I think the z3 rack is better because it’s a a linear rack with a quicker ratio. Zhp is a bit slower with a variable rack. The steering just feels like how it should have come from the factory.
I’m a z3 own and my car feels exactly like a go cart. I call it my adult-kart
Just found your channel and love it. I’ve been anxious to see your thoughts on the poly bushings. I want to do them to my 1998 3/4/5 soon. Are you going to do any track days with your M3?
You need to delete traction control. You remove the 2nd throttle body that is for the traction control and install a (I think) Z3 intake elbow. It adds a noticeable amount of throttle response and seems to pull harder.
Thanks, welcome to the channel man!
Thank you my dude, just watched all your videos, and made my list of parts I need to attack ... that artic silver is a Beauty btw...and I always feel good about putting gas in her #mlife
In real world if it is a daily you will wear out the Poly Bushings much faster than stock rubber bushings. For a track or weekend only car Poly is great
I have to do this on my e34 540. Then I get to rip on it !
Alright thats it, im buying the figs kit for my IS
That on and off throttle noise you're hearing is from the drive shaft for sure, most likely the CSB. You should look into replacing it because all those stiff bushings are going to exaggerate the stress on the old CSB rubber. Also, if you have dropped the driveshaft and CSB recently, it needs to be preloaded toward the transmission about 5 mm
This I didn't know. I just replaced mine. Might that be why my driveshaft has some slop? Almost as if the new bearing didn't do anything.
I got a new custom driveshaft when I swapped the 6 speed in and the noise I have is not driveshaft related. It is gear lash in the rear diff. Try getting under your car and rotating the driveshaft back and forth. You may be able to pinpoint where it is coming from. If it is from the rear diff it doesn't necessarily mean anything is wrong.
@TreatsOnTheStreets I know for sure that the diff is okay! I'm starting to lean towards rear diff bushings as my Carrier Bearing went bad, probably from all the clutch kicking, and was forced to drive with a bad one for about 5 days. I think all that slapping around probably wrecked the already 25ish year old diff bushing.
Putting it on the lift tomorrow anyhow. Gonna wiggle every damn thing in the drive train haha
@zoobear02 I mean, if they're the factory bushings, even without any other outside influences they're def shot by now. You'll def notice a difference
I did the exact same bushings on my 328 about a year ago and have been eager to see if you noticed the differential whine as well. I have yet to do the bushings on my M3 because I’m trying to figure out a compromise to get the best performance with minimal noise. So far I’m thinking Revshift 80A subframe with new OEM differential bushings to combat noise but keep the rear planted...
Jake Lamphere I’ve done quite a bit of research on the diff “whine” issue. Apparently it comes mostly from using poly on the diff bushings. Poly on subframe have little to no affect on diff whine if you use oem bushings - this is the route I’ve gone. I’ll try my best to circle back with the results after I install them next month. Btw, 80A is similar to stock rubber - check out a durometer scale for reference.
Zeid h do let me know. This will be something I get to early summer. Durometer is yet to be set, but I’m mostly set on running OEM through the powertrain (engine, tranny, diff) and poly everywhere else. I can handle the stiffness but the noise gets annoying on long trips...
They dont last as long tho, correct ?
What was ur total cost for all? Need to do mine soon
What front lip spoiler do you have? And do you have the x-brace under the car, too?
Thanks for the videos!
I do have tje x brace. Check the link to my website in the description. You'll find the lip there.
Are these race or street versions?
would you recommend for daily driving? or should i go with the black ones that are 80a
I'd daily drive them, but I don't mind a little extra noise for the sportier feel.
What exhaust are you running? Awesome videos btw, I’ve watched all of them since I subbed a year ago!
Nice man! Thanks for watching. It is just a stock exhaust with a Dinan axle back.
hey! i’m 15 rn and soon to be 16 i work in construction(roofing) during the summer and 2020 summer i will start saving up for a car i don’t know what to choose a 323is,328is help me outv
Exolityy what are you looking for
also this vid is definitely motivating me to tackle a full rear sub-frame rebuild, i think after 240k+ mi, my 328 deserves it.
Do it man!
Hey bro i had my doubts about the polyurethane bushings and thanks to you i will definitely go for them !!! i own a E21 with it's original factory bushes and they are completely tear down. My car tail is feels like jelly when doing sudden turns you know. I saw a Poland brand named "Strongflex" each one costs aprox 33 bucks and they have red (for normal cars) and the yellow ones (more sporty feel). Thank you so much from Peru my friend :D
I have an e46 convertible and I'm taking it in for subframe reinforcement. I plan to get my diff and subframe bushings replaced at the same time. Trying to decide between solids, poly, or OE. What (durometer) stiffness are your bushings? Solids seem like too much NVH but the plus is that they would probably last forever. I was told by FCPeuro that poly and OE have the same lifespan but I can't help but think that poly would last longer. I already have a single mass street flywheel that makes some noise and vibration (mostly when AC is on or power steering while not moving). the NVH from bushings probably wouldn't be much added noise relative to the single mass flywheel I have already
I do not recommend solid bushings. They are too harsh and don't allow any flex at all. They'll also transfer the most noise. Head over to Redshift.com. They have 2 levels of poly-- the green and the black. The black is a bit softer which I use for motor mounts and trans mounts. I have all green on my suspension. It does transfer some differential and driveshaft noise for sure but I don't think it is terrible. If you don't want any mouse at all just go OEM.
What's your headlight / angel eye setup?
Link is in the description 👌
Your link for the halo headlights is expired. Can u post a new one?
Check my most recent video. I believe that link works that is in the description.
Try changing your dif oil for that noise.
Does the car vibrate when at a stop?
Not from these bushings. Poly motor mounts and trans mounts make it vibrate a bit at idle but not once you're moving
loved the bushing series, definitely need to do this on my car. also, what made you go with the revshift bushings?
Glad you enjoyed it. I went with them because they are made in the US, have different stiffness options to choose from, and have a lifetime warranty that they stand by. They also have competitive pricing and I've used their products in the past.
Jin Endow I bought mine after a lot of research on the forums. Rev shift bushings have a more solid construction in comparison to power flex and akg. Powerflex have hardware and durability issues; akg is missing the metal center sleeve that the bold/studs go through.
sweet i’ll take this into account when buying mine
Do you get any clunks with those bushings from the diff? I have Powerflex black series that rear diff bushings only have one lip so diff keeps sliding back off the bushings. Just got the green Revshift bushings and a diff support bracket but would like your take on the bushings now that you’ve had them on for some time now
I don't get any clunk from the diff moving. Only noises I hear is what I think is just gear lash that is more noticable now by having poly and not rubber.
Treats On The Streets yeah man I have poly bushings on just the Powerflex ones. Same hardness as the ones you have on yours. I just got those bushings and will be replacing the Powerflex ones. I get a clunk because the diff slides back off the rear bushings since they have one lip that goes on the front side of diff so the diff slides back and also caused my front diff bolt to break. I had to extract the broken bolt out adjusted the bushings back on the diff and put a new front diff bolt. Tested it driving hard and drifting and the diff slid off the bushings again so I will instal the green Revshift ones that have a lip on both the back side and front side of the rear diff bushings
@@rubenmedina1059 oh ok I get what you're saying. That is weird they don't have a lip on both sides. I think you'll have good luck with the Revshift bushings. I drive hard on em and haven't had an issue.
Same thing I said. Very weird bushings setup. I can’t wait to get diff support bracket in and those bushings in to get back to having some fun
Bro I’m loving these bushings so far. I Installed them today and have never felt the car any better. I already had the motor and transmission mounts the green Revshift so the drivetrain has all green Revshift bushings. My sub and arms are Powerflex.
do u think these are good and hold up for more power ?
More power than the stock rubber ones
Goalz
Aye man I’m from slc and I’m leaving tonight to South Dakota to go buy a bmw e36 m3 with 180k on the clock 😬 do I need to look for anything specific?!
Rusted subframe mounts, rattle noise from vanos, clunks coming from rear end, overly loud lifter tick, leaky power steering lines, among other things lol. South Dakota is a cold rough climate. I'd definitely check all over for rust. Good luck 👍
There’s no rust my man. but I will definitely go with your advice and check all those other things out thank you so much!
Did you paint your kidney grilles yourself or purchase them? I've been looking for gloss ones forever and have come to the conclusion that I will likely have to paint them myself if I want them gloss as opposed to matte.
Thanks in advance, and great review of the bushings!
clatheho link in description
@@KurumaDesigns Thanks for the reply! Bummer it says the listing ended.
Did they make the ride too stiff? and bumpy
I didn't notice much ride change at all as far as comfort goes. With the right suspension it shouldn't bother.
I know you're probably busy working to pay for new tires but, we're all waiting for the next adventure. I kid, but I do have a question for you. Everytime I look at an older BMW (like my stock E36) I always struggle with the rear end; do BMW's all have negative camber on the rear wheels from the factory or is it just my eyes?
Haha no worries I've got a video coming out this week! Sorry for the delay. About your question... most BMW's, even the newer ones, have a little bit of rear camber. It's kind of typical for the insides of the rear tires to wear out a bit faster.
Thanks for that. Just wanted to make sure it wasn’t my poor eyes. Just did a break job on the rear and noticed my tires are worn on the inside edge. I guess it just means I need to take advantage of it and drive harder!
Gavin, what was the car mileage when you had these refreshed?
78k. It has more to do with how old they are than the mileage. A 0 miles car will still have the runner rot over time.
Thanks. Did you do the RTAB Pocket Reinforcement as well?
No I didn't but probably will in the future.
Treats On The Streets
What durometer did you choose on your diff and sub frame mounts?
95A
what was the hardness on your bushings? I know rev shift offers 80A 95A and 75D hardnesses on their bushings
Their bushings are color coded. Each color has a different hardness. Black, green, and red I believe.
Ever thinking of an S54 swap?
I'd rather go turbo than s54 😁
Some misinformation here.
Rubber suspension parts have not got a whole lot to do with durometer scale, it is the tooling that's behind rubber that makes it work. One of the key differences between rubber and polyurethane is that rubber cannot be compressed as a material, but it can only be deformed. The way polyurethane is made, it can be made compressable by adding in air bubbles, this is the way purple powerflex works for example. So if you use purple powerflex for subframes or other bushings, it is pretty useless as the material just gets compressed, this is why they wear out in such a high rate as well. Black powerflex for example is Shore 95D, so without air bubbles but this effectively makes it just as hard as delrin and nylon.
One of the better examples is the front, LCAB get one from a 96+ M3, rotate it 1/4 of a turn so that the openings are on top and bottom instead of the sides and the steering is much sharper, because the rubber does not have any play anymore. This effectively makes the bushing alot stiffer just by altering the place where the openings are.
Same for say a subframe, say you have rubber rear subframe bushings, if they have their openings on the front and back they are very stiff in lateral load but can still absorb vibration. If you use a soft polyurethane bushing like powerflex purple it will compress in all directions and will actually be worse than a proper rubber application.
Also one of the differences is that rubber wears out in open air, polyurethane will not but polyurethane has a very high wear rate in moving components. Components will move inside the polyurethane bushing, as polyurethane does not bond to metal parts. This also means the slightest wear on a very hard bushing will make it develop play in the bushing. Rubber bonds to metal, so when a component rotates the rubber bushing will twist along with it (this actually creates extra springrate in a suspension) and since it deforms, the piece along the metal part is pushed aside and you can use the excess material so that it feeds itself.
If you ask me polyurethane is bodge engineering, a manufacturer simply replaces everything with polyurethane but there is little to no engineering behind it. Polyurethane has no place in a car suspension if you ask me, the only place I would use it is in foundations etc, engine and gearbox mounts for example. Not the rear subframe as it sees a lot of lateral load.
If polyurethane was better, all manufacturers would use it but it is simply not
Wow. That was informative.Thank you
What hardness bushings do you have in what spots?
All 95a in suspension but I recommend 80a or softer for trans and motor
@@TreatsOnTheStreets They make softer than 80a? I want to ask what the point is, then. Rubbers can be, what, 40-65a? IDK man, is there that much difference between 5-10a? I didn't even know they made different stiffnesses until two days ago! Does "suspension" also mean your diff housing or is your diff housing 80a like the rest of your driveline?
Everything in the rear is 95a. By softer than 80a I meant stock rubber. I can also tell you that 95a vs 80a for motor and trans makes a massive difference in nvh.
@@TreatsOnTheStreets Alright, cool. Thank you.
You cool as f*** bro. Thanks.
You're welcome! Thanks for watching
How is the ride comfort with these new bushings?
Can't tell a difference but I'm also not on stock suspension.
Hey Im 17 and just bought my first e36 m3 and was looking at doing some coil overs I know you have Megan racing ones but there out of my price range anything you’d recommend that are around 1000?
Megan makes coilovers around that price range too. The ones I have are just the more expensive ones.
Another questions would you recommend the 1000 Megan racing over like the br bc coils?
A lot of people use bc and they're good, but I personally prefer Megan because I've had less problems with them.
Bilstein or KW
ماشاء الله تحياتي لك من المغرب
like your videos mate, but you're really damaging your lsd and the plates keeping drifting in the dry espesh with fat tyre profiles/wide rims. you also should be disabling abs because if you spin and go backwards your brakes wont work espesh in the wet when you slide very quickly backwards. also wondering if you've disabled your airbags for drifting because you don't want them going off if you hit something...
Cool I am early squad
That's a hack of a job...😅
I did the same on my e36 touring 330i, guys are you from europe you can buy deuter too. They have 75scha hardnes for street cars 😁
Is that a question
I'm doing this on a 2003 Chevy blazer stock rubber sucks ass
James Deen. Ted Bundy.
I as owner of e36 and e46,I recommend you to buy a Mercedes clk, you will get all this benefits and more, with standard suspension. :)
Outstanding handling, steering response and confort in the same time.
I spent a lot of time and money in setting a suspension for those BMW and with just mediocre results.
Just save yourself of that. :)
Z Florentin Z if you only found mediocre results from setting up a proper suspension on an e36 you did something wrong
@@Nathan-my8cn Oh sure, I didn't thought of that. But neither tows ingeneers from BMW. :))