So glad you enjoyed the new version of Riven! It was such a joy and a dream come true working on the audio and gameplay for it. Thank you for all of the kind words!
Quest developer here - the frame generation technique for quest is actually called Application Space Warp. Asynchronous Space Warp is a similar technique specific to PC Oculus titles. Application Spacewarp for Quest uses motion vectors generated by the game to allow it to render at half frame rate and then the Quest generates the in between frames using said motion vectors. Loved the video John! This was an awesome break down.
Awesome to hear from a dev! Quick question if you don't mind, how much better could this have been if this was Quest 3 only? I'm curious because we haven't seen many Quest 3 only games, and the few we have seen are not that impressive. What do you think of the Quest 3 compared to Quest 2 in terms of hardware?
@DarkReturns1 We're gonna find out soon! Batman: Arkham Shadow is going to be a Quest 3 exclusive from am awesome VR dev team who understand and respect the Arkham series. I suspect GTA: San Andreas VR will be shown in the Fall event as a Q3 exclusive. And, if Reven sells well, I bet they do a Quest 3 update eventually. Aw
I really hope Cyan get the recognition that they deserve for bringing back Riven to the modern age. This and Myst are truly one of a kind atmospheric puzzle games.
One of the best puzzle games of all time. Wish they would have filmed real FMV characters and just fixed the camera in place during those scenes, not these goofy CGI ones. Also no Hardware Lumen option is a bizarre omission, this is UE5 and would add more realism for those with newer GPUs.
A good friend was a writer for Riven and he has no idea how important this game was to so many people. I remember seeing this game in 98 but had no computer or money but was so intrigued by the artwork. Fast forward to 2011 and hanging out at my friends house upstate NY and there was a Riven award he was using as a bookend. He was like yeah I was a writer for that game before I got into writing for TV. I was surprised how nonchalant he was about it.
If anything I think this highlights the still persistent divide between the video game industry and the rest of the entertainment industry. Where video games are considered lesser in the eyes of writers, composers etc.
I wish my dad had lived long enough to see this remaster. It is the first big PC game I remember him buying and us playing together on release. He passed in 2022 from a heart attack and for like 10 years I wished they would do a Riven remake. I knew it would come eventually.. I just wish it had happened sooner. While I am happy I got to see a Riven remaster finally arrive, it is bittersweet since no other game in my life reminds me of my dad more than Riven. I never owned a copy of Myst, though I remember playing it on a babysitters Mac upon its release, but it was Riven that blew my mind with its detail and immersion. Riven is still that game that showed me just how amazing video games can be, and I still loved returning to it decades later.
I beat this a few days ago and it's a fantastic puzzle game. The original is one of the best puzzle games of all time and this remake just enhances it. I highly encourage anyone playing it to NOT look up solutions online and to write down notes with a pen and paper. It's a very rewarding way to play Riven.
Myst may have the bigger name because of it's impact on the gaming market but Riven is Cyan's true masterpiece and the pinnacle of the series. Having just finished the remake I can say that they did a fantastic job at recreating and expanding the world. Really impressive work by the artists. The puzzles have been streamlined a bit so it's more welcoming to new comers but still a challenge and there's new additions for series veterans which will make them quite happy. Don't skip this one!
Myst was a game where the devs were sort of just tossing ideas at a wall to see what would stick, and came up with a story to tie it together after the fact mostly, and it shows. Riven had the advantage of a developed setting and an actual plan.
As always with games in the Myst series, if you’re stuck there’s a good chance you just didn’t notice a particular button or lever. This happened to me yet again in the remake. Keep your eyes peeled!
22:00 The sound tour was SO GOOD. John's storytelling and editing are again shining here, as we get a slice of total immersion in this game's beautiful and haunting presentation.
It was good, but as someone who does audio work on AAA games, I'd appreciate it if he would pause the playback when explaining, or just use subtitles. It's nice, and rare to see this work showcased (how good foley can ground a virtual scene), but when his VO is ducking the whole game audio track, it irritates me. Whisper at least John ;)
Riven is literally THE most nostalgic game of all time for me. I was born in 1991 en my dad was a gamer. So i was 6 -7 years old when i played this. The impact of it was incredible. And yes i also grew up with zork grand inquisitor, and myst. The longest journey among others. Also, after all this time my father developed dementia. I tried to play witcher 3 with him but it was to difficult. Gaming was one the ways we would connect in my childhood. BUT this remake of Riven he might be able to do and probably blows his mind. I also bought a OLED tv with HDR and build my own high end PC next year so everything will look as good as possible.
There is a mod Injector to play the PC version in VR. UEVR INJECTOR MOD by Praydog. Maybe once he's messed with the flatscreen version, bust out the VR. Let him be IN a happy place!
Thanks for this John. Riven is one of the most memorable media experiences from my youth and I was floored by the remake. It was nice to see the team's achievement showcased so nicely.
I can’t believe they released a full 3D remake of Riven. I discovered the demo like a week before release. I’ve already played and finished it and, aside from the 3D people, everything about the game is nostalgia to the max. It’s so immersive. So realistic. I was blown away at every turn!
Since it is in Unrealengine5, they could decide to redo the Actors as Metahumans, but there could be legal obstacles for using the old actors' footage. Idk. New stuff.
i think it's easy to misunderstand what made Myst so magical looking back. Unless you were using a Mac or PC of that era, its hard to imagine a game being so big that it simply didn't fit on a harddisk in any computer. At the time of release you'd be looking at something like a Macintosh Quadra 900, it shipped with a 140MB harddisk. Big data harddisks were 400MB at the time, and on the PC side, the maximum supported harddisk size was 504MB because that's all the BIOS supported. So to have a CD that could hold 600MB of data, a game like this. It was insane for it's time. The closest next release that did something so mind bending was 7th Guest. To put it into perspective, the biggest hard disk you can realistically buy now is a 30TB drive, with Steam stats suggesting only 54% of gamers have a bigger than 1TB drive in their computer. It'd be like someone releasing a game, that was 100TB in size, and running it entirely off CD drive, and it having graphics looking like they're a computer 10 years from now, running smooth as butter on your machine. You'd be like, well that's impossible, yet here Myst was blowing everyone's minds at the time... and it was actually a good game as well.
Just take a moment to appreciate that some of the scenes _STILL_ look more realistic in the original version. From TWENTY SEVEN YEARS AGO. The raw skill that went into those original models, textures, and lighting -- and the extraordinary ray-tracing of that ancient software -- lend to a quality that was literally one-of-a-kind. There were so many imitators back then, but nothing held a candle to Myst and Riven.
@@nzprx3 No, they were pre-rendered, but that's not the point. It wasn't exactly trivial to model and render a scene with the hardware available at that time. I know that from experience. My first render, on a 386DX/33, took 24 hours to complete a ray-traced 640x480 image. Myst was released shortly after that (within a year or two), and Riven a few years after that. To get the level of detail that they did, with the computing power available to them, demonstrates an exceptional level of skill and effort. I stand by my statement that some of the pre-rendered scenes still look better than some of the graphics in the re-release. No, it's not a fair fight to compare pre-rendered and real-time graphics -- usually. But when you put nearly 3 decades of tech advancement between them, it certainly levels the playing field a bit. I'm not going to get into a subjective argument about which is better. I made my opinion clear. You're entitled to your own. Either way, my main point is and was: The work Cyan did in the 90s was extraordinary.
This could be the one to make me jump into VR ya know. Riven and Panza Dragoon Saga were two worlds I got truly lost in back in 97. Incredibly wondrous locations and immersion. AS you rightly said, Art Direction trumps all. This remake looks absolutely gorgeous! So much love and care. THIS is what you get when every shot starts as a painting! Proper art.
I've played Riven the first time a few years ago on my iPad and it blew my mind away and I then went ahead and played all of Myst games and became a fan. This remake feels sooo amazing!
I love the respect and attention given to comparing old-school CGI to modern real-time rendering. I was instantly fascinated by CGI when i was a kid in the 90's and wondered when game graphics would catch up and surpass it. John is great at talking about the old technology and knowingly comparing it to the new!
Also - kudos to The Starry Expanse project and all of the community members who helped with that too! It looks like Riven remake was not just Cyan Worlds, but started as a community project.
There's an interview where they say they started with that but ended up not using much, at least partially because they ended up changing a lot of things from the original.
While the work they did since 2009 was mostly scrapped since the creators wanted a re-imagining if Riven, they were able to push Cyan to get this to happen at all.
@@SimonBuchanNz Yeah, I briefly helped with the starry expance project, and the goal internally was to recreate the original game as wholly and faithfully as possible (we were doing 3D modeling based on camera view-matches to the original game renders after unpacking the game files into all its individual assets.) The Starry Expanse Project had permission from CYAN to do this, while CYAN themselves at the time couldn't contribute too much because of how much of the original game files were lost. Starry Expanse didn't have a lot of room to change things as they saw fit (nor should they have, since being faithful was the utmost end goal.) But after CYAN took the project internally, they made the decision to not just remake, but to reimagine, improve, and add new things. I'm actually glad it worked out this way -- I think the starry expanse project showed there was interest in having a real time Riven, but I'm not sure how realistic the project could have ever come to completion with the singular cohesive vision this new remake has.. Maybe it was the success of the 2021 MYST remake that ignited CYAN to have a greater interest to tackle Riven next. Only they themselves could have made changes to the game like they did, and I'm very pleased with just about everything they did to the game to bring the story and themes significantly closer to what we actually see in its world.
I first played Myst on my Saturn back in the 90s,I truly bought it based on the hype it had from it's pc release. I fell in love with the game but never played Riven, definitely will pick it up when released on PS5. Great video John one of your best this year.
the original riven is one of the few games i can say felt truly real to me as i was playing. nothing gives me that feeling of exploring a real physical space quite the same. i'm glad its remake has done justice to it, i'll definitely be checking it out soon.
Games like this exemplify how good a remake can be. Having not played Riven since it was originally released, playing this remake felt like revisiting an old dream. I generally knew how the game would play out, but I didn't remember most of it, hitting me here and there with moments of nostalgic déjà vu. I hope this sells well for Cyan
Thank you John for another great video. As a huge Cyan fan I can say you did great service to the series. The music tracks from URU and Myst V you used as background in some sections of the video further enhance the mysterious atmosphere. I regret that in the PC version they didn't include Nanite, VSM and most of all - Lumen GI, and I hope they'll revisit the game in the future and add those in (not only Riven, but also Obduction, Myst 2021 and Firmament), a man can dream :). After all, they are supposedly still working on Firmament for PSVR2, so maybe all these improvements will make their way to the PC version as well at some point. Riven is also confirmed for PSVR2 in the future, if I'm not mistaken. IMO it makes way more sense porting such high fidelity PC VR games to the PSVR2 than it does for porting Quest games, which most studios do nowadays. The state of PC VR currently is appalling for my great disappointment as an enthusiast and early adopter :( I'm surprised that you didn't mention The Starry Expanse fan project. For years, the team was working on making "realRiven" if you will, and then Cyan stepped in and took over in official capacity. To this day, I'm not quite sure what assets from this project (if any) made it to the final release. In any case, I think it deserves a mention. You said you haven't spoken to the team. Reach out, I'm sure you'll be able to have a chat with their technical art director Eric A Anderson and maybe discuss UE-related stuff, the current lack of UE5 features in Riven, RT, the biggest challenges with this project, Rand Miller's love for VR, etc. I see that he retweeted this video :)
When John describes the atmosphere of Riven as “creepy even..” I know exactly what he means. I messed around with Riven on PC a lot as a kid and found the world quite unnerving. Even though nothing scary happens. I think it’s the feeling of isolation while the obvious presence of other humans persists in the technology you interact with. I also constantly got the sense I was being followed, despite the game just being compromised of images and videos.
Now Cyan only needs to remake Uru: Ages Beyond Myst, the only third-person Myst game and I think it's quite underrated. I remember that game was one of the prettiest PC game of 2002 with The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind.
I remember my mom and I playing this (and MYST) when I was little. Actually, she played and I "helped" by writing down and "keeping" her notes for her-- which taught me note-taking and puzzling/troubleshooting skills I use to this very day. Definitely going to buy this as soon as I've saved up the money-- just wish I could get my hands on a physical copy to put next to my copy of the MYST remake on my shelf. Maybe they'll do it eventually.
The door puzzle seems like a change made for VR. Going under the door would require either big camera swoops or awkward teleports close to the ground to show the movement. It'd also be harder to make that solution obvious without the ability to specifically frame the shot to show the gap underneath, which the original does but the remake omits in the fixed angle mode. Either way, the intent of the puzzle does remain; It's a straightforward solution that requires the player to consider the physicality of the world, to prime them for what comes later. It makes you go outside the box of typical video-gamey logic where locked doors are utterly impassable without a key.
I played the original Myst when it came out and although difficult I did manage to finish it eventually. There was no Internet then so no way to look up a walkthrough. I got Riven when it came out as well, and barely made it into the game before becoming bored/frustrated.
Yeah. In terms of puzzle design it was (mostly) great, but the limitations of the slideshow format really hurt it. Navigation and understanding the geography could be incredibly difficult when you're making 10+ foot jumps with every step. Not to mention how easily the player could overlook a navigable area due to lack of context clues pointing to it.
@@light3267 the pop in and simplylod autogenerated low poly meshes are really bad for the experience. there's broken uvs and mesh issues on nearly every rock on quest 3 standalone. and the pop ins happen right in front of you quite frequently. if you buy it on quest store, don't expect the pc version to be free on the oculus store. like bulletstorm vr, pc is only on steam so if you want the higher quality port too you have to buy it twice.
there's a ton of pop in and bad meshing and broken uvs on the rocks. I think they autogenerated the lower LODs. Also it's quest and steam only, so if you buy it on quest you don't get the oculus store version for pc, because there isn't one. same situation with bulletstorm vr.
@@light3267pc required to run this game with those graphics in VR is essentially 4 additional Quest 3s lol. Its better no question but not worth 2.000$ imo.
I do hope they give Myst III: Exile the same treatment as Riven. I know that Cyan didn't originally make Exile but the Riven remake is so good Exile absolutely deserves it, and it's my personal favourite of the Myst series.
Honestly 25 years ago I playes it for hundreds of hours and couldnt beat it. This (bad) new 3-D version I finished first day, because they sadly downgraded the difficulty quite a bit. So, although Im through it now I just feel spoiled and wish I did stick to the old version and gave it a new try.
TBH I don't think it's actually that hard... just requires a level of attentiveness and observation that games don't demand these days. The puzzles were incredibly intuitive and simple actually.
A lot less hard in VR, I believe. Never played the original, but it's something I've seen in a few other games like shooters too: you're there in VR, geography is intuitive, you can remember directions, you can interact with objects with your own hands, it's more intuitive plus you can just look around and see the whole, how everything connects. Big part of the difficulty back then would be simply not being able to the see the whole, disconnected screens for same parts... I mean, I was basically just waking around and interacting with a few things and already got like 1/3 of achievements... similar to Myst too, which I already finished
DF Retro is always SO good! I love coming back to these gaming staples, and these guys do it better than almost anyone else. Maybe the best!! Keep up the great work!!
Riven was my favorite. We always say gameplay is king and graphics shouldnt matter. But in that era, the graphics of Riven were spectacular. It lead to insane sensations of immersion, and the island was bright, sunny, and cozy.
Unfortunately there is to few VR content in general on DF in general. I would have loved some deep analysis of Assassins Creed Nexus and Asgards Wrath 2, very impressive games on an low wattage SOC. Maybe with Batman Arkham Shadow
I'm playing that right now. I'm really liking it. I really like the 3D scans of real actors and their fun kinda cheesy performances. It makes me feel like I'm inside an old scary movie. Looks and runs great too
I've been playing 7th Guest VR on PSVR2 and it is really good. It goes on sale pretty regularly, definitely worth it at $20. If you like 3D VR Puzzle games then The Room VR A Dark Matter is superb. It's on sale on Steam right now for a ludicrous $12.
Absolutely fascinating video! I completely missed the Riven Remake on PC! Such beautiful memories I have with this game! Can't wait to grab it and play it in PCVR!!! Kudos for the PCVR vs Quest 3 comparison!
I tried playing Myst when I was a little kid, and I couldn’t understand what I was supposed to do - it was a bit too subtle for my little kid brain. Excited to discover this new release and try playing it with my now (hopefully) bigger kid brain!
Great 1st attempt at a quest comparison. Really enjoyed seeing a quest port being given a critical eye. I see this being very much in line with your work on switch ports over the last few years. Keep at it and explore the alternative capture methods used by the vr RUclips community to maximise the quality.
I played this many many years ago. Absolutely loved it and I actually felt like I really accomplished something great when I finally beat it. Can’t wait to play it again and have my kids play it with me hopefully. One of the best games of all time.
I got everything I wanted out of this remake. Everything I've been waiting for for 24 years since I first experienced the first full 3D remake of Myst (realMyst). And then some. Absolutely knocked it out of the park. And even the 3D character models are a step up from what we had in Myst 2023, which were honestly a step or two below the quality in Riven 2024. The mocap and facial animations are also so much better. Bravo, Cyan. Just absolutely stellar job. What a monumental achievement. What a PRODUCT. Truly absolutely worthy of its original's stake in video gaming history and lives up to every bit of the hype.
the original riven was one of my 10/10s. it's pacing and puzzle design isn't for everyone, but its visual design and alien world are absolutely amazing. can't wait to play this remake
I absolutely adored these games growing up in the 90's. The vibe, the concepts. I hope this means we will see more unique puzzle games such as this. (I do wish we could still have real life FMV "styled" characters blended into games like this. The CGI characters just are not the same At All)
Riven is a top ten and will remain there for the foreseeable future. It's not for everyone, but is still one of the most immersive experiences Ive ever had in gaming
Very nice comparison, also the background music from URU is fitting. Cyan made their early steps into 3d with URU and it took a long time until they could finally realize their vision.
That was lovely, John. I absolutely adore DF Retro and savor every video analysis you put out. This new version of Riven is breathtaking, apart from the 3D characters. I wish they'd find a way to insert real actors into the game once again, I think they made this universe feel even more alive and REAL.That's one aspect that drew me into these games back in the late 90s.
The recent remake of 7th Guest for VR uses a technique called volumetric video (I think?) that creates FMV in 3d. I wish Cyan Worlds had used a similar technique. The 3D characters aren't horrible, but they definitely lose some of the personality and charm of the original.
When I was a teen I remember looking at pictures of Riven back in the day and always wanting to play it but never owned a gaming PC. I'm definitely gonna have to pick this up because I remember how cool it looked back then.
Elden Ring DLC is absolutely mindblowing. Plan on getting into Riven in the fall, I was really hoping for FMV characters instead of the CGI ones but won't stop me from getting it still.
22:40 - tangential - but this type of atmosphere reminds me exactly why I consider Halo CE as being like "Myst with guns". The kind of long quiet moments with ambience of wind, water, vast chasms, and whirring ancient machinery. I hope the much rumoured Halo 1 remake pulls from what Riven is doing with it's atmosphere here, and makes the mysterious alien world itself the draw. Because no sequels have done any more than offer a weak glimpse of that atmosphere in comparison as the ambience takes a backseat to the action.
And much like Riven, Halo CE’s atmosphere had a lot to do with the audio and the artistry for that atmosphere. Something they continuously broke with every re-release and HD makeover.
@@itsd0nk It should be noted that Marty O'Donnell and Michael Salvatori were the ones behind Riven's soundscape (not the music though). So there's at least one other reason Halo had a Riven-esque vibe to it!
I feel like this moment is what the past decade of resurgent VR development was all for. Riven blew my tiny little mind in 1997, it's crazy how fully realised it all felt, and this remake is crazy too, it's like a genuine world.
![DF Retro EX: Outcast - The Legacy and A New Beginning [Sponsored]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/xgSCu7QpUiM/mqdefault.jpg)
![I.N "HALLUCINATION" | [Stray Kids : SKZ-PLAYER]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/n5B5q1Hwt_U/mqdefault.jpg)
So glad you enjoyed the new version of Riven! It was such a joy and a dream come true working on the audio and gameplay for it. Thank you for all of the kind words!
Quest developer here - the frame generation technique for quest is actually called Application Space Warp. Asynchronous Space Warp is a similar technique specific to PC Oculus titles. Application Spacewarp for Quest uses motion vectors generated by the game to allow it to render at half frame rate and then the Quest generates the in between frames using said motion vectors. Loved the video John! This was an awesome break down.
Cheers for the insight ❤
Awesome to hear from a dev! Quick question if you don't mind, how much better could this have been if this was Quest 3 only? I'm curious because we haven't seen many Quest 3 only games, and the few we have seen are not that impressive. What do you think of the Quest 3 compared to Quest 2 in terms of hardware?
@DarkReturns1 We're gonna find out soon! Batman: Arkham Shadow is going to be a Quest 3 exclusive from am awesome VR dev team who understand and respect the Arkham series.
I suspect GTA: San Andreas VR will be shown in the Fall event as a Q3 exclusive.
And, if Reven sells well, I bet they do a Quest 3 update eventually. Aw
Are you using a mobile Unreal Engine version? What are optimal Quest 3 games going to be like?
Is it coming to psvr2
I really hope Cyan get the recognition that they deserve for bringing back Riven to the modern age. This and Myst are truly one of a kind atmospheric puzzle games.
And the Starry Expanse project, which kept the dream alive for so long before Cyan stepped up.
one of them was my Teacher Michael Bostik... He said he kinda got screwed over if i recall... He was my vfx teacher in film school
One of the best puzzle games of all time. Wish they would have filmed real FMV characters and just fixed the camera in place during those scenes, not these goofy CGI ones. Also no Hardware Lumen option is a bizarre omission, this is UE5 and would add more realism for those with newer GPUs.
I hope the game will become a success. I still remember Digi hyping up Outcast A New Beginning and that game flopped and quickly forgotten.
Seriously. My computer isn't great and I'm not a Quest owner, but I'd pay good money for posters of some of these recreated areas.
A good friend was a writer for Riven and he has no idea how important this game was to so many people. I remember seeing this game in 98 but had no computer or money but was so intrigued by the artwork. Fast forward to 2011 and hanging out at my friends house upstate NY and there was a Riven award he was using as a bookend. He was like yeah I was a writer for that game before I got into writing for TV. I was surprised how nonchalant he was about it.
If anything I think this highlights the still persistent divide between the video game industry and the rest of the entertainment industry. Where video games are considered lesser in the eyes of writers, composers etc.
Tim Greenberg?
I wish my dad had lived long enough to see this remaster. It is the first big PC game I remember him buying and us playing together on release. He passed in 2022 from a heart attack and for like 10 years I wished they would do a Riven remake. I knew it would come eventually.. I just wish it had happened sooner. While I am happy I got to see a Riven remaster finally arrive, it is bittersweet since no other game in my life reminds me of my dad more than Riven.
I never owned a copy of Myst, though I remember playing it on a babysitters Mac upon its release, but it was Riven that blew my mind with its detail and immersion. Riven is still that game that showed me just how amazing video games can be, and I still loved returning to it decades later.
I beat this a few days ago and it's a fantastic puzzle game. The original is one of the best puzzle games of all time and this remake just enhances it. I highly encourage anyone playing it to NOT look up solutions online and to write down notes with a pen and paper. It's a very rewarding way to play Riven.
You can now write notes on a virtual notepad and take photos in-game. Very useful new feature.
We did call these story driven puzzle games "point and click adventure".
I wa gonna ask about that, do I take the head set off every time?
I just beat it too and I hate it. All the puzzles got severely dumbed down. Even the new number system is for toddlers.
@@mistersurrealist OMG! Really? There are Skyrim VR mods like that!
Myst may have the bigger name because of it's impact on the gaming market but Riven is Cyan's true masterpiece and the pinnacle of the series.
Having just finished the remake I can say that they did a fantastic job at recreating and expanding the world. Really impressive work by the artists. The puzzles have been streamlined a bit so it's more welcoming to new comers but still a challenge and there's new additions for series veterans which will make them quite happy.
Don't skip this one!
Myst was a game where the devs were sort of just tossing ideas at a wall to see what would stick, and came up with a story to tie it together after the fact mostly, and it shows. Riven had the advantage of a developed setting and an actual plan.
As always with games in the Myst series, if you’re stuck there’s a good chance you just didn’t notice a particular button or lever. This happened to me yet again in the remake. Keep your eyes peeled!
@@SuperCuriousFox and your ears peeled ;)
so stupid mobile Meta Quest hold up graphics cause mobile crap cant run high asettings graphics. cool
22:00 The sound tour was SO GOOD. John's storytelling and editing are again shining here, as we get a slice of total immersion in this game's beautiful and haunting presentation.
It was good, but as someone who does audio work on AAA games, I'd appreciate it if he would pause the playback when explaining, or just use subtitles. It's nice, and rare to see this work showcased (how good foley can ground a virtual scene), but when his VO is ducking the whole game audio track, it irritates me. Whisper at least John ;)
Riven is literally THE most nostalgic game of all time for me. I was born in 1991 en my dad was a gamer. So i was 6 -7 years old when i played this. The impact of it was incredible.
And yes i also grew up with zork grand inquisitor, and myst. The longest journey among others.
Also, after all this time my father developed dementia. I tried to play witcher 3 with him but it was to difficult. Gaming was one the ways we would connect in my childhood. BUT this remake of Riven he might be able to do and probably blows his mind. I also bought a OLED tv with HDR and build my own high end PC next year so everything will look as good as possible.
Good luck to you and your dad! I hope it takes him back.
Good luck to you and your dad.
hope you played zork:nemesis, that game and all the actor fmvs were amazin
There is a mod Injector to play the PC version in VR. UEVR INJECTOR MOD by Praydog.
Maybe once he's messed with the flatscreen version, bust out the VR. Let him be IN a happy place!
There is a VR mode!
Riven 97 was the very definition of 'imagine this in 3D one day'.....and wow, it works so well!
Thank you John for taking the time to do the side-by-side comparisons. I can tell you put a huge amount of work into this.
Always get hyped when I hear John's voice kicking off a video.
Also, the visuals here are absolutely beautiful.
What a time to be alive. The real time gameplay looks better than the pre rendered images of the original. And back then we could only dream of it!
It's still a testament to the art and cutting edge rendering of the original that some parts still look better than the remake!
This looks outstanding, and completely out of the blue. I never thought there'd be a remake of Riven, let alone of this quality.
I still maintain that Riven is the greatest looking game ever made. What a beautiful-looking new vision of the original too.
Thanks for this John. Riven is one of the most memorable media experiences from my youth and I was floored by the remake. It was nice to see the team's achievement showcased so nicely.
Fantastic video. Thanks for the audio tour, I don't think many gamers are sensitive to how much audio detail goes into these projects.
Perfect for a quiet Sunday this one.
Definitely a pleasant watch on a Sunday morning here in the States!
@@caseypenk works like a charm this 9pm in Morocco, before more elden ring :p
Chilling at the end of a long day here in the US. It's so relaxing to watch this, it's like a late afternoon daydream.
@@rizzo-films I'm sorry to hear it's so chilly in your part of the US. I've been sweating at work, but it's cool outside now. 😊
🙄🤦Plz plz plzzz be a bot 😩😮💨
Remember seeing Myst adverts in Amiga magazines in the 90’s and being blown away. Amazing they are still going as a developer.
This is one of the most magical games I've ever played. Loved it back in 1997 and loved it even more now in 2024
I can’t believe they released a full 3D remake of Riven. I discovered the demo like a week before release. I’ve already played and finished it and, aside from the 3D people, everything about the game is nostalgia to the max. It’s so immersive. So realistic. I was blown away at every turn!
Since it is in Unrealengine5, they could decide to redo the Actors as Metahumans, but there could be legal obstacles for using the old actors' footage. Idk. New stuff.
i think it's easy to misunderstand what made Myst so magical looking back. Unless you were using a Mac or PC of that era, its hard to imagine a game being so big that it simply didn't fit on a harddisk in any computer. At the time of release you'd be looking at something like a Macintosh Quadra 900, it shipped with a 140MB harddisk. Big data harddisks were 400MB at the time, and on the PC side, the maximum supported harddisk size was 504MB because that's all the BIOS supported. So to have a CD that could hold 600MB of data, a game like this. It was insane for it's time. The closest next release that did something so mind bending was 7th Guest.
To put it into perspective, the biggest hard disk you can realistically buy now is a 30TB drive, with Steam stats suggesting only 54% of gamers have a bigger than 1TB drive in their computer. It'd be like someone releasing a game, that was 100TB in size, and running it entirely off CD drive, and it having graphics looking like they're a computer 10 years from now, running smooth as butter on your machine. You'd be like, well that's impossible, yet here Myst was blowing everyone's minds at the time... and it was actually a good game as well.
Just take a moment to appreciate that some of the scenes _STILL_ look more realistic in the original version. From TWENTY SEVEN YEARS AGO. The raw skill that went into those original models, textures, and lighting -- and the extraordinary ray-tracing of that ancient software -- lend to a quality that was literally one-of-a-kind. There were so many imitators back then, but nothing held a candle to Myst and Riven.
No, they don't. And those were not real time graphics. Sorry, but this looks much better while being actually real time graphics.
@@nzprx3 No, they were pre-rendered, but that's not the point. It wasn't exactly trivial to model and render a scene with the hardware available at that time. I know that from experience.
My first render, on a 386DX/33, took 24 hours to complete a ray-traced 640x480 image. Myst was released shortly after that (within a year or two), and Riven a few years after that. To get the level of detail that they did, with the computing power available to them, demonstrates an exceptional level of skill and effort.
I stand by my statement that some of the pre-rendered scenes still look better than some of the graphics in the re-release. No, it's not a fair fight to compare pre-rendered and real-time graphics -- usually. But when you put nearly 3 decades of tech advancement between them, it certainly levels the playing field a bit. I'm not going to get into a subjective argument about which is better. I made my opinion clear. You're entitled to your own.
Either way, my main point is and was: The work Cyan did in the 90s was extraordinary.
One of the best DF videos in a long time. Loved this game on launch day, and looking forward to going back. Awesome work.
John's conclusion in this one is top of the class!
Awesome video. I love how you put a spotlight on the audio, this game really does sound incredible
Riven is an amazing game, and this one looks like an incredible version.
This could be the one to make me jump into VR ya know. Riven and Panza Dragoon Saga were two worlds I got truly lost in back in 97. Incredibly wondrous locations and immersion.
AS you rightly said, Art Direction trumps all. This remake looks absolutely gorgeous! So much love and care. THIS is what you get when every shot starts as a painting! Proper art.
Fantastic episode John. Truly fascinating how you're always able to tell a story with your videos.
I've played Riven the first time a few years ago on my iPad and it blew my mind away and I then went ahead and played all of Myst games and became a fan. This remake feels sooo amazing!
I love the respect and attention given to comparing old-school CGI to modern real-time rendering. I was instantly fascinated by CGI when i was a kid in the 90's and wondered when game graphics would catch up and surpass it. John is great at talking about the old technology and knowingly comparing it to the new!
Loved that audio demonstration! Good job as always john👍
Also - kudos to The Starry Expanse project and all of the community members who helped with that too! It looks like Riven remake was not just Cyan Worlds, but started as a community project.
There's an interview where they say they started with that but ended up not using much, at least partially because they ended up changing a lot of things from the original.
While the work they did since 2009 was mostly scrapped since the creators wanted a re-imagining if Riven, they were able to push Cyan to get this to happen at all.
@@SimonBuchanNz Yeah, I briefly helped with the starry expance project, and the goal internally was to recreate the original game as wholly and faithfully as possible (we were doing 3D modeling based on camera view-matches to the original game renders after unpacking the game files into all its individual assets.) The Starry Expanse Project had permission from CYAN to do this, while CYAN themselves at the time couldn't contribute too much because of how much of the original game files were lost. Starry Expanse didn't have a lot of room to change things as they saw fit (nor should they have, since being faithful was the utmost end goal.) But after CYAN took the project internally, they made the decision to not just remake, but to reimagine, improve, and add new things. I'm actually glad it worked out this way -- I think the starry expanse project showed there was interest in having a real time Riven, but I'm not sure how realistic the project could have ever come to completion with the singular cohesive vision this new remake has.. Maybe it was the success of the 2021 MYST remake that ignited CYAN to have a greater interest to tackle Riven next. Only they themselves could have made changes to the game like they did, and I'm very pleased with just about everything they did to the game to bring the story and themes significantly closer to what we actually see in its world.
I first played Myst on my Saturn back in the 90s,I truly bought it based on the hype it had from it's pc release. I fell in love with the game but never played Riven, definitely will pick it up when released on PS5. Great video John one of your best this year.
So glad I bought the remake never played it and it is so far one of the best experiences I have ever had.
Loved the music/sound demo and audio tour. Nice job demonstrating this, John, and kudos to the composers and devs for such fantastic sound+game design
the original riven is one of the few games i can say felt truly real to me as i was playing. nothing gives me that feeling of exploring a real physical space quite the same. i'm glad its remake has done justice to it, i'll definitely be checking it out soon.
It's insane how the old pre-rendered shots still hold up. Lots of details on the textures and beautiful lighting.
This was my childhood. What a beautiful review and story telling of this amazing game. Thank you DF!
A gorgeous-looking update to Riven: The Sequel to Myst which maintains the 'mood' of the original version.
Glad to see VR get more exposure
I'm sold. I honestly can't wait to try this both on my OLED and in VR. I never played the original but this looks absolutely captivating.
You don't have to capitalize oled every time you type it.
Games like this exemplify how good a remake can be. Having not played Riven since it was originally released, playing this remake felt like revisiting an old dream. I generally knew how the game would play out, but I didn't remember most of it, hitting me here and there with moments of nostalgic déjà vu. I hope this sells well for Cyan
Thank you John for another great video. As a huge Cyan fan I can say you did great service to the series. The music tracks from URU and Myst V you used as background in some sections of the video further enhance the mysterious atmosphere.
I regret that in the PC version they didn't include Nanite, VSM and most of all - Lumen GI, and I hope they'll revisit the game in the future and add those in (not only Riven, but also Obduction, Myst 2021 and Firmament), a man can dream :). After all, they are supposedly still working on Firmament for PSVR2, so maybe all these improvements will make their way to the PC version as well at some point. Riven is also confirmed for PSVR2 in the future, if I'm not mistaken. IMO it makes way more sense porting such high fidelity PC VR games to the PSVR2 than it does for porting Quest games, which most studios do nowadays. The state of PC VR currently is appalling for my great disappointment as an enthusiast and early adopter :(
I'm surprised that you didn't mention The Starry Expanse fan project. For years, the team was working on making "realRiven" if you will, and then Cyan stepped in and took over in official capacity. To this day, I'm not quite sure what assets from this project (if any) made it to the final release. In any case, I think it deserves a mention.
You said you haven't spoken to the team. Reach out, I'm sure you'll be able to have a chat with their technical art director Eric A Anderson and maybe discuss UE-related stuff, the current lack of UE5 features in Riven, RT, the biggest challenges with this project, Rand Miller's love for VR, etc.
I see that he retweeted this video :)
In a lot of ways the textures and lighting look better in the original to me. The color seems more balanced too
When John describes the atmosphere of Riven as “creepy even..” I know exactly what he means. I messed around with Riven on PC a lot as a kid and found the world quite unnerving. Even though nothing scary happens. I think it’s the feeling of isolation while the obvious presence of other humans persists in the technology you interact with. I also constantly got the sense I was being followed, despite the game just being compromised of images and videos.
Now Cyan only needs to remake Uru: Ages Beyond Myst, the only third-person Myst game and I think it's quite underrated. I remember that game was one of the prettiest PC game of 2002 with The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind.
I remember my mom and I playing this (and MYST) when I was little.
Actually, she played and I "helped" by writing down and "keeping" her notes for her-- which taught me note-taking and puzzling/troubleshooting skills I use to this very day.
Definitely going to buy this as soon as I've saved up the money-- just wish I could get my hands on a physical copy to put next to my copy of the MYST remake on my shelf. Maybe they'll do it eventually.
It truly is one of the most beautiful games I've ever seen.
beyond the visuals its the music that really drives Riven and brings its journey to life.
The door puzzle seems like a change made for VR. Going under the door would require either big camera swoops or awkward teleports close to the ground to show the movement. It'd also be harder to make that solution obvious without the ability to specifically frame the shot to show the gap underneath, which the original does but the remake omits in the fixed angle mode.
Either way, the intent of the puzzle does remain; It's a straightforward solution that requires the player to consider the physicality of the world, to prime them for what comes later. It makes you go outside the box of typical video-gamey logic where locked doors are utterly impassable without a key.
Riven 1997 looks bewildering.
Riven and Myst are truly liminal spaces. They give me shudders.
its still well worth playing, awesome game to work your way through slowly over multiple play sessions. just make sure to keep a notebook
I played the original Myst when it came out and although difficult I did manage to finish it eventually. There was no Internet then so no way to look up a walkthrough. I got Riven when it came out as well, and barely made it into the game before becoming bored/frustrated.
Yeah. In terms of puzzle design it was (mostly) great, but the limitations of the slideshow format really hurt it. Navigation and understanding the geography could be incredibly difficult when you're making 10+ foot jumps with every step. Not to mention how easily the player could overlook a navigable area due to lack of context clues pointing to it.
Riven is a game I play even when I'm not playing. Is like visiting a world that I keep thinking about when I'm not there.
Thank you John for continuing the VR coverage!
So getting this for the Quest 3. Thank you for the review John.
buy on pc and stream to quest 3, standalone is kinda downgraded in gfx
@@light3267 the pop in and simplylod autogenerated low poly meshes are really bad for the experience. there's broken uvs and mesh issues on nearly every rock on quest 3 standalone. and the pop ins happen right in front of you quite frequently. if you buy it on quest store, don't expect the pc version to be free on the oculus store. like bulletstorm vr, pc is only on steam so if you want the higher quality port too you have to buy it twice.
there's a ton of pop in and bad meshing and broken uvs on the rocks. I think they autogenerated the lower LODs. Also it's quest and steam only, so if you buy it on quest you don't get the oculus store version for pc, because there isn't one. same situation with bulletstorm vr.
@@light3267pc required to run this game with those graphics in VR is essentially 4 additional Quest 3s lol. Its better no question but not worth 2.000$ imo.
Quest 3 (I think the older ones do too now) headset supports SteamVR, the PC version will look far better that way.
I do hope they give Myst III: Exile the same treatment as Riven. I know that Cyan didn't originally make Exile but the Riven remake is so good Exile absolutely deserves it, and it's my personal favourite of the Myst series.
25 years later, with all my additional life and gaming experiences, and I still couldn't beat it. Lol. Riven is SO HARD
Me too, I ended up buying a hint book back in the days. I just couldn’t do it.
Honestly 25 years ago I playes it for hundreds of hours and couldnt beat it. This (bad) new 3-D version I finished first day, because they sadly downgraded the difficulty quite a bit. So, although Im through it now I just feel spoiled and wish I did stick to the old version and gave it a new try.
TBH I don't think it's actually that hard... just requires a level of attentiveness and observation that games don't demand these days. The puzzles were incredibly intuitive and simple actually.
A lot less hard in VR, I believe. Never played the original, but it's something I've seen in a few other games like shooters too: you're there in VR, geography is intuitive, you can remember directions, you can interact with objects with your own hands, it's more intuitive plus you can just look around and see the whole, how everything connects. Big part of the difficulty back then would be simply not being able to the see the whole, disconnected screens for same parts...
I mean, I was basically just waking around and interacting with a few things and already got like 1/3 of achievements... similar to Myst too, which I already finished
Really nice John, thank you 😊👍🏼
John is definitely the best person I know to make a video about this game. Thanks for the trip!
DF Retro is always SO good! I love coming back to these gaming staples, and these guys do it better than almost anyone else. Maybe the best!! Keep up the great work!!
Riven was my favorite.
We always say gameplay is king and graphics shouldnt matter.
But in that era, the graphics of Riven were spectacular.
It lead to insane sensations of immersion, and the island was bright, sunny, and cozy.
Great video! At some point I'd love to see similar technical coverage of the very analogous 7th Guest remake for VR.
Unfortunately there is to few VR content in general on DF in general. I would have loved some deep analysis of Assassins Creed Nexus and Asgards Wrath 2, very impressive games on an low wattage SOC. Maybe with Batman Arkham Shadow
I'm playing that right now. I'm really liking it.
I really like the 3D scans of real actors and their fun kinda cheesy performances. It makes me feel like I'm inside an old scary movie.
Looks and runs great too
I've been playing 7th Guest VR on PSVR2 and it is really good. It goes on sale pretty regularly, definitely worth it at $20. If you like 3D VR Puzzle games then The Room VR A Dark Matter is superb. It's on sale on Steam right now for a ludicrous $12.
Remakes and remasters are great, it gives nostaligia the way we thought it looked back in the day
Absolutely fascinating video! I completely missed the Riven Remake on PC! Such beautiful memories I have with this game! Can't wait to grab it and play it in PCVR!!! Kudos for the PCVR vs Quest 3 comparison!
This was a beautiful video
Such an amazingly good game, both the exploration, the culture, the puzzles, the soundtrack.
Finally! DF made PCVR vs Quest comparision video!
I tried playing Myst when I was a little kid, and I couldn’t understand what I was supposed to do - it was a bit too subtle for my little kid brain. Excited to discover this new release and try playing it with my now (hopefully) bigger kid brain!
Great 1st attempt at a quest comparison. Really enjoyed seeing a quest port being given a critical eye. I see this being very much in line with your work on switch ports over the last few years.
Keep at it and explore the alternative capture methods used by the vr RUclips community to maximise the quality.
It really shows you enjoyed making this video Jhon!
Will definitely check this one out
I played this many many years ago. Absolutely loved it and I actually felt like I really accomplished something great when I finally beat it. Can’t wait to play it again and have my kids play it with me hopefully. One of the best games of all time.
Excellent video, thank you. Just bought it!
I got everything I wanted out of this remake. Everything I've been waiting for for 24 years since I first experienced the first full 3D remake of Myst (realMyst). And then some. Absolutely knocked it out of the park. And even the 3D character models are a step up from what we had in Myst 2023, which were honestly a step or two below the quality in Riven 2024. The mocap and facial animations are also so much better. Bravo, Cyan. Just absolutely stellar job. What a monumental achievement. What a PRODUCT. Truly absolutely worthy of its original's stake in video gaming history and lives up to every bit of the hype.
Amazing video and comparasion shots!
the original riven was one of my 10/10s. it's pacing and puzzle design isn't for everyone, but its visual design and alien world are absolutely amazing. can't wait to play this remake
I absolutely adored these games growing up in the 90's. The vibe, the concepts. I hope this means we will see more unique puzzle games such as this. (I do wish we could still have real life FMV "styled" characters blended into games like this. The CGI characters just are not the same At All)
Riven is a top ten and will remain there for the foreseeable future. It's not for everyone, but is still one of the most immersive experiences Ive ever had in gaming
Very nice comparison, also the background music from URU is fitting. Cyan made their early steps into 3d with URU and it took a long time until they could finally realize their vision.
Myst and Riven gave me weird ass vibes as a kid, still remember vividly spending hours in confusion and wonder just clicking around ❤
The cool thing about the soundtrack is that the entire thing is set on a G note, making the transitions from room to room feel completely seamless.
That audio design is amazing!
Adventure games like Myst and Riven are a great fit for VR.
Nice to see some VR content!
That was lovely, John. I absolutely adore DF Retro and savor every video analysis you put out. This new version of Riven is breathtaking, apart from the 3D characters. I wish they'd find a way to insert real actors into the game once again, I think they made this universe feel even more alive and REAL.That's one aspect that drew me into these games back in the late 90s.
The recent remake of 7th Guest for VR uses a technique called volumetric video (I think?) that creates FMV in 3d. I wish Cyan Worlds had used a similar technique. The 3D characters aren't horrible, but they definitely lose some of the personality and charm of the original.
This remake looks stunning! Thank you.
I wish we had a game like this depicting the Krull movie, with an open world to travel between forests, deserts, and the castles and dungeons.
Oooooo I'm in
Fantastic remake, loved playing through this one and will check out Cyan's other projects.
Thank you for not spoiling any of the changes to the puzzles. Or the domes.
I do somewhat miss the original grid and rebel puzzles, they felt a bit more tied to the world.
I hope they release a Lumen/PT graphics setting in the future, because path-traced Riven is going to blow everyone’s minds!
Excellent video, John. Not only do we see comparisons between the old & new version, VR and early puzzle/world changes are touched upon as well.
When I was a teen I remember looking at pictures of Riven back in the day and always wanting to play it but never owned a gaming PC. I'm definitely gonna have to pick this up because I remember how cool it looked back then.
O.K. ! THAT'S EXACTLY the kind of remake the gamer search when we've waiting 27 years ! Take notes developpers ! 🥰👍
Thank you so so much for making this
A nice change of pace from Elden Ring.
I love that I can enjoy both also!
Elden Ring DLC is absolutely mindblowing. Plan on getting into Riven in the fall, I was really hoping for FMV characters instead of the CGI ones but won't stop me from getting it still.
I hope this one gets a PSVR2 port. Firmament will be releasing later this year on the platform, so Cyan is friendly to PSVR.
22:40 - tangential - but this type of atmosphere reminds me exactly why I consider Halo CE as being like "Myst with guns". The kind of long quiet moments with ambience of wind, water, vast chasms, and whirring ancient machinery. I hope the much rumoured Halo 1 remake pulls from what Riven is doing with it's atmosphere here, and makes the mysterious alien world itself the draw. Because no sequels have done any more than offer a weak glimpse of that atmosphere in comparison as the ambience takes a backseat to the action.
Well said, I agree with you completely
100%. If a remake doesn't capture the intangible feeling and atmosphere of the original game, then it often feels like a part of it is missing.
@@BatteryBee it'd be like a Half-Life 2 remake containing just the action scenes.
And much like Riven, Halo CE’s atmosphere had a lot to do with the audio and the artistry for that atmosphere. Something they continuously broke with every re-release and HD makeover.
@@itsd0nk It should be noted that Marty O'Donnell and Michael Salvatori were the ones behind Riven's soundscape (not the music though). So there's at least one other reason Halo had a Riven-esque vibe to it!
I feel like this moment is what the past decade of resurgent VR development was all for. Riven blew my tiny little mind in 1997, it's crazy how fully realised it all felt, and this remake is crazy too, it's like a genuine world.
I've always wanted to play this game as a kid. The box art captivated me on store shelves. Well maybe now is a great time to finally play it.
Thank you, I will enjoy it in VR on PC . Unbelievable they’re supporting VR with so many games.
That sound design showcase was awesome! It's all about the little things.
Well said John. Kudos to Cyan for staying the course and being true to their fans and themselves. ❤