Brings me a feeling of ease and lightheartedness to hear you speak openly about your crisis prior to coming on the live. That’s the sorta stuff that keeps me goin and reminds me of the value in authenticity and the relief that can be found in vulnerability. Keep doing what you’re doing !!!
The question & answer about narcissism at the neurotic level is really interesting - would love to hear more about what happens at the different levels in the vids you’re thinking of doing. It’s such good stuff. Thank you ☺️
Good program thus far! I grew up bouncing between a violent alcoholic home and foster care from 4 yo to 15 yo before running away and marrying. My young husband was from a broken home as well. We were Taoist into Zen and stayed with that belief system into our late sixties now. Together since young adulthood we took time to back up and address all that was toxic, challenging, and complicated in our original ‘dysfunctional’ nests. We also made a conscious effort to reply and replace all the feelings, events, and experiencing that we lost or lacked in childhood. It has been a healing journey that has enriched our 53 years together. 😊❤
I absolutely agree with the empathy part of understanding it and feeling seen. It’s something I’ve been trying so hard, all my life to do. This level of patience is it and this is what I mean when I try to tell people. Only compassion can solve this. Because trauma lies at the roots. I’ve always felt a strong intuitive sense of this. I think this could also apply to people who feel sadism because I think that comes from a place of major pain. Seeing what others have and not having it all your life and knowing that’s what you’ve needed so badly to be happy. Thank you for validating my life beliefs and how I feel about my emotional needs being right. It is so hard to live and keep living when your entire life is traumatized and you see happy people and don’t have those positive experiences despite fighting so hard for them. I always say “kindness isn’t free.” This video definitely validated that truth for me. It’s definitely a privilege and people need to start seeing that.
As someone with BPD, this talk helped me a lot with understanding myself. You're right about lack of empathy also being an issue... I hope you consider talking more about BPD...
I would so profoundly value your take on cptsd and the overlap with npd, especially when cptsd has arisen from traumas in adulthood. I have seen profound changes in people who experienced ongoing traumas as adults and who seem stuck in a severe narcissistic pattern that was simply not there before
@@HomeFromFarAwayVan Der Kolk, one of the members of the panel proposing the C-PTSD diagnosis, and author of "The Body Keeps the Score", discusses the politics involved in the DSM's failure to include the diagnosis in his writing.
Great questions and great answers! Learned a lot again. Thank you for openly sharing your crisis! For what it's worth; I always look at your livestreams afterwards, because of the time difference (Europe). But, I always look forward to them popping up on my RUclips feed!
Your opening comment on the relationship we have with ourselves and the 3 possibilities or parts of that we bring into a relationship was brilliant. You have this way of citing and explaining things with such clarity. It was a aha moment . Thank you doctor.
Really do think general people need to understand the role of privilege this has in NPD development. Thank you for sharing your compassionate take on all this. I’ve lived with daily trauma my entire life with constant chaos 24/7 on a regular basis. It truly was a lack of privilege that I didn’t have access to that others do and take completely for granted. Because they don’t understand mental disorders and their causation/development. As I am listening to your videos I am finding relief amidst slight anxiety about my inner self. I am finding a lot of it making sense given my familial environment. My story growing up with a schizophrenic mother has been very tragic and hasn’t been spoken much but I hope more people will be open to hearing. The kind of psychological challenges it puts you through daily as a child is immense and suffocating and ruthless. Thank you again for another video, Dr Ettensohn. So glad to have a compassionate professional in the field doing good work for people in real need of support.
I am separated realm a 63 year old covert, Machiavellian narcissist. He desperately wants to get better and repair all the damage he has done to me and our children, has done all manner of therapies for the past 20 years, has been working with a trauma therapist and a psychiatrist for the past two years, yet he still cannot accept blame or fault or full accountability for anything. And he is still doing the exact same promising me things and then sadistically withholding them or botching. I finally left him after 38 years because I found out he had been undermining me behind my back to all those close to me including my children. How can he teach himself how to accept he has sadistic impulses to exploit and/or abuse? It seems the more he wants to be different, the harder he leans into his illicit, cruel, and dishonest behaviors.
It's likely that he's not going to get better with you. You guys have probably gotten some pretty deep grooves that are hard to get out of. And as much as he promises as much as he says, obviously his actions tell a different story. One of the things that those of us with NPD have to learn to accept is the truth. That's the thing we are not very good at doing because we had to create a false self when we were very young in order to survive. And oftentimes the truth is very painful and very ugly and very shameful. But in this situation, the truth is he's not going to do the things you want him to do. And he's going to continue to do things that are destructive and damaging. NPD doesn't make you do bad things. That's a choice. We have free will. Yes it's a very serious mental illness. I know. I live with it. But it's my choice to hurt people or to not hurt people. If he doesn't think he can change, he needs to tell you that and you guys need to move on. It's not uncommon for people with NPD to lie and not know they're lying, but that doesn't mean you can't set up boundaries and expect him to stick to it. And if he doesn't stick to it, there are consequences obviously. You've done all that you can do, but moving on is probably the best thing you can do for him.
Nobody is totally responsible for anything because we are all parts of a system. Free will is an illusion. Men see themselves through the eyes of the woman in their lives, and as long as you see him as a threat to you and your ego, he can’t possibly heal, because he sees himself that way too. My husband began to heal when I stopped seeing him as a threat to my ego, and gained a better understanding of what he experienced as a child which lead to him becoming the way he was. I developed lots of compassion and empathy for him, and stopped worrying that he would do or say something that would hurt my ego. When I could give him grace, he could finally give himself grace. If you are attached to the image of your husband as a “covert, Machiavellian narcissist”, then he will remain that character in your eyes. He’s in so much pain. He’s so afraid. I will say that if he was truly Machiavellian, he would tell you whatever you wanted to hear so that he could get his way. Maybe you need to believe he is Machiavellian because you are attached to him as a “bad guy”, and if the way you see him changes, so too will the way you see yourself. If he is your enemy, then in order for him to become “good”, you must become “bad”, and of course you don’t want that. You’re on the same team though, and your propensity to label him shows that you don’t see that.
@katieandnick4113 although you may be entirely correct- it's also potentially very dangerous advice to give a stranger about another stranger, not knowing what level of abuse is actually taking place in real life. Depending on what's actually happening- that could be the worst advice which may only facilitate enduring more abuse.
@@katieandnick4113 I do understand what you're saying. I can see how it could work. I think the important thing is that anyone involved with somebody diagnosed with NPD has to be aware that the person has most likely had a very painful and difficult childhood. That there has been trauma. That doesn't excuse bad behavior. That doesn't excuse abuse. I think if a person is in An abusive relationship, the best thing might be to leave. But if the relationship seems like it's worth saving, it's true that you're going to have to see your partner in ways that he or she might not see themselves. It isn't typical that a person with NPD can easily acknowledge that they are sitting on a world of pain and shame. Because that's the thing that terrifies them and hurts them the most. It's often what inspires a lot of the behavior that is difficult to understand. If you feel safe, then trying to help that person work past the mask either as grandiose or as vulnerable as they might be is the best thing you can do. See them as human. A hurt human. But trauma is a difficult thing. And sometimes there are relationships that prevent the partner from healing. Sometimes a person with NPD might choose a partner that they subconsciously know won't be a threat. And that means that they might not be able to heal or they might believe that they won't be able to heal with that partner. Every relationship is going to be different. First and foremost, make sure to protect yourself. If there is abuse, don't accept it. Try to remove yourself from that situation. But if you feel like you can make a difference for your partner, the one thing a person with NPD needs the most is somebody who will help them develop a better understanding of themselves. Because after all NPD is a disorder of the self. I'm glad people are talking about this in very open and honest ways without a lot of the rhetoric that we hear so often on social media. We can disagree. That's not a bad thing. As long as we're not pointing fingers and calling names. 😊
Thank you so much for your videos. :) I really benefit from your explanations especially on personality organization (psychotic, borderline, neurotic, healthy, ...). Looking forward to the upcoming videos.
Thank you so much for the video. I think I never watched them live, but always catch up later and look forward for the new ones. A well-informed and non-judgmental discussion of NPD related topics is indeed a very rare kind of content on RUclips.
Just keep at it. If we consider how many years were spent by others dismantling our self-worth as kids...it shows that rebuilding it also takes time. All we can do is keep trying. ❤️🩹
I also want to mention something that might not be thought about or talked about is the pain of having to be perfect, because if you weren’t you couldn’t survive in your environment. Literally, if you didn’t do or find out the right info you would be punished my life’s circumstances or things would become much more stressful and difficult for you than they already were. So people with NPD might have to choose from overwhelmx5 or overwhelm x50 in terms of stressful experiences. There was no non stressful experience. I just wish ppl had the compassion to see people with these suffering experiences as human and good enough. I feel like sometimes the line can’t really be drawn when it comes to whether they’re harming someone because what if they were hurt so much and so badly that they have to, in order to continue on? I guess it’s kind of similar to the drowning analogy mentioned in another video. But I feel if society only sees it as bad behavior and cuts people out who act “badly” then these people can never be healed or supported in the way they might desperately need to be. I think this also comes down to whether it’s okay for one person to suffer immensely lifelong versus another to suffer something, but overall less.
@@michelle1813 Perfectionism hit me hard. From every strand on my head to covering up every blemish on my body, to having to stay thin, to covering my tummy rolls, to wearing uncomfortable clothes because they looked good, to wearing skimpy outfits in the freezing cold..... I can go on and on. I was my own worst enemy. I was conditioned to believe that I'm not human.
Hey healNPD, I am a 17 year old who been in a relationship well founded off mutual love and respect…. In a way I’m very lucky…. But I have RJ, and struggle with rocd and npd traits….. and abandonment anxiety (fear of devaluing)…. Negative introjects You think I can still maintain this relationship as I do the inner work… as she is very supportive and very kind, allows me to be vulnerable…. And catch myself…. Despite what many say (can we love in this long term (she is not a narc)…. I may or may not be but worst case Is there I can overcome this…. And growth with her and due to common spiritual practice ✝️…. She is aware of my adhd,ocd, my wounds (I don’t use certain words even for myself)…. But thank you for your videos and the hope you offer ❤
Is there any video on your channel advising NPD patients regarding how to spend rest of their remaining life and how to approach life? Narcs who are now living alone, totally devoid of any contact with family and friends, having already undergone mortification, having reached the middle age, having recognized themselves as someone who has lived whole life as a Narcissist, having created a hell for family members (but now thankfully family is no longer existent)? These Narcs have seen themselves in the mirror and recognized themselves as narcs, they've seen that they were living hiding behind the facade of a false fake artificial self which was developed as a defense mechanism in their childhood. Having realized this much, undergone mortification, now how should they proceed about approaching various facets of their life? I hope I was able to make myself clear.
Hi Dr, appreciate all your work. I have a question regarding the different levels e.g. neurotic, borderline, psychotic. Can you go from psychotic level to neurotic or even ‘healed’? You said it’s like a ladder, can you go from one end of the spectrum to another? Would say I’ve been pretty stable before but feel quite paranoid/ psychotic atm, hope it to get back to feeling functional. Thanks
15:31 NPD: behavior swings from grandiosity vulnerability (pendulum) ...issues with inflation or deflation of self esteem. The persons self image isn't realistic and it's not stable!
17:15 ...we are not conscious of the ability to inflate self esteem when there is an instability... it's just the dynamics of the personality there is an instability there.
There’s two versions of my partners in my head. For me, I’ve had this deified goddess princess version of my ex in my head. Then when I flipped, that image of her in my head vanished and was replaced with another image, a malevolent succubus 😂 Pretty much. Or a malicious Siren. It’s two different people. This makes me feel like I’ve been lied to, deceived, manipulated, taken for a fool, I’m humiliated, angry, mourning, in shock.. I start connecting dots in the past of all the things I dismissed before or perhaps didn’t notice.. then I start bringing it all up like lm exposing a conspiracy lol The painful part is when the two versions rapidly shift back and forth within a short time span because I notice it happening and I’m left feeling helpless and ashamed because I know it’s in me and can do nothing about it. This continues on and on, getting worse and worse. It’s like my actual reality has been distorted. It’s almost hallucinatory.. It’s bizarre. The way I see her, the way I perceived things, the paranoia. And going from interrogating her, criticizing her and berating her to pleading for her to forgive me once the other version shifts back in my head. It’s painful for both parties, not just one. But imagine this happens to me every time I fall in love or become close to anyone really. At least with her, it was a one time deal 😂 Poor girl. That was probably traumatizing. Not like she was entirely innocent herself.. she’s definitely cluster b herself.. histrionic/borderline… talk about rapid fire reactions and emotions, ridiculously theatrical, ostentatiously dramatic, so vulnerable I felt like I had to role play lol, constant emergencies where she needs my undivided attention lol Ahhh gotta love it.
He does a great job talking about this in this video. I think the thing for those of us with NPD that's difficult is there is this sense that we don't see the lack of continuity. In our minds it feels like when we devalue them it's always been that way. When we see them in that negative light, we feel like they've always been there. But for the partner, it must be so maddening. So disorienting. Because that's not really what happened. We just can't help that. I mean I think we can learn to deal with it and get better at it when we're conscious of it, but it's something that we do as a survival technique. I think now that you know this is your pattern, it's probably something that you need to say up front in any relationship you get into. For me it's keeping me from getting into relationships because I know I have to do some stuff with myself first. But we are all different obviously
@@artisaline I know what you mean. I think about that a lot tbh. It’s so bizarre to me. How could I not see what was happening? I mean the devaluation and idealization phases. The idealization part, as much as I hate to admit it, I had some awareness about that, because I knew I was sort of having these sort of conversations with the internal, ideal version in my head. I felt like she was a phantom, an eidolon or a ghost that followed me around, spoke to me (internally), interacted with me and commented on things I said and did throughout the day. I had awareness of this, I knew it was happening but I guess I thought nothing of it? Which is fine because how am I supposed to know if that is normal or not? I can’t read minds 😂 But that was a sense of shame about it, as if I ought not to be doing this, despite the fact it felt like it was happening to me rather than something I actively engaged in. Regardless, I had awareness of it. Yet, I brushed it off. Even when I played scenarios out in my head between her and I, then would attempt to bring the fantasy to fruition, I thought nothing of it despite the awareness I had. How could something occurring in my mind have real world consequences? …As I try to manifest these fantasies. 🙄 It’s BIZARRE. Lol. I was aware that I harbored this deified, ethereal goddess version of my ex in my head.. Projecting it onto her, ignoring any given disparity between reality and fantasy. Nonchalantly living in a dream like state.. Like wtf? 😂 🤷♂️ I suppose it hits different in the moment but man… How can I not see what’s happening? The devaluation is much different though because I feel I had no hand in constructing that image of her in my head, it’s much more intrusive and out of my control. Although… this begs the question.. Now that I think about it… How much control do you have over fantasies? If you have them, I would assume you do. I feel like that’s the heart of NPD and it’s a symptom that is rarely discussed in the literature. It’s like nobody talks about it but that trait alone contributes to nearly all the other aspects of the disorder. Pretty much. Anyway.. How much control do you have over fantasies? I say I had awareness, but as far as being in the drivers seat, I can’t say for sure. Devaluation felt like I wasn’t driving at all. Did anything I say resonate? If so, what’s your experiences like? PS: I wouldn’t tell anyone you’re interested in dating about having NPD. 😂 Bad idea. You will never get a girlfriend again lol The stigma online is unreal. It’s so bad. Well… Nevermind. lol. You definitely will because there’s a sort of Narcissism fetish going on it seems. lol Millions of people talking about a disorder when they have no idea what they’re talking about at all. It’s wild! Me personally? I don’t date. Don’t bother with friends, it’s been years since I had a friend. Not because I can’t make friends, I’ve never struggled with that. I just know how it goes m, man. I get hurt. They get hurt. Close relationships for me are traumatizing. Literally. For me and them. I don’t rage or get violent or verbally bully anyone. Idk. I do weird things. For reasons I don’t understand.
I used to have similar feelings about my boyfriend. At first, he was the best boyfriend ever (in my mind) and then I couldn't stand him....after a lot of therapy with a therapist that is clearly not narcissistic, I kinda started to learn from her and this splitting in my head got less and less extreme. It feels soo good to see both good and bad parts of somebody at the same time. By the way, splitting was also happening with bosses and teachers in my life. I think there is hope and as long as you are alive, you should keep trying. Also, I want to say that avoiding relationships might not be so good, because when you have issues in a relationship you can talk about them with your therapist and growth can happen.
Wow, the way you described how you feel may as well be exactly how the guy i was involved with has felt about every single woman he's ever been with (me included). But that is NOT me comparing him to you. Just the process of idealization and devaluation. I'm not even sure he realizes how he'd contradict himself from one day to the next with his rants or laments about them. Like how his longest relationship ex was soooo stupid and incapable of even tying her own shoes...the girl was a doctor, btw. And then the next day saying she was conniving and super smart and knew exactly how to play him. And one minute he's b*tching about how controlling she was and how she forced him to be her house boy by walking her dog and cooking since she was doing long ER shifts during covid and he was just sitting around at home getting drunk (mind you she bought their house and paid all the bills and he contributed barely even any food money, and what decent money he did make from being an artist and musician- he hid from her and pocketed "because he knew she'd leave him someday and he was preparing for exactly what happened"), but then later casually mentions that he would spend 3 or 4 days straight at his musician friend's boys club party house being 24/7 wasted and on coke and that she had the nerve to annoy him with pissed texts asking him if and when he was coming home, or complaining that he likes sexy photos of all these other girls online and never bothers to like her photos anymore...because that was "controlling" since he did things like build a shed for her so what more could she want. And he even admitted to me that he stopped liking her photos out of spite because she was clearly posting them for attention. Sigh. He hates her rotten guts, is convinced she was the narcissist who had BPD, (he was diagnosed BPD in his 20s but is NPD too) and always knew she was garbage who would leave him one day, and then the next day she's the only woman he ever truly loved, was sure she'd be his forever life partner, and he gave her everything. It's brutal for all people involved, because I know he too suffers from the way he perceives his life.
@@LizKcer Would have to get into therapy with a competent therapist first, but yeah I agree. If I’m in therapy, I can work things out and find out if I’m being crazy or not. 😂 Hopefully I don’t get mad and devalue the therapist.
I don't believe that adults should have unconditional love, I think children should receive unconditional love from their parents and caregivers but adult relationships have conditions in my opinion. Healthy relationships have condional love.
@@healnpdwould adults with NPD who missed out on that be able to grow without the unconditional love they didn’t have, if they are still traumatized at an early level? I think if we all deserve it as children then the ones not given it should receive it somehow, in some way, so they can heal.
@@healnpd I think what’s unfair is that for people who can’t get that help in therapy or if there isn’t a therapist available for that person, there should be another way ie finding someone who is compassionate enough and understanding of the persons situation so they can also help them and support them. It feels like that’s the other way but the world/society doesn’t really welcome this.
QUESTION: How much of this "Narcissist accusation" craze comes down to the natural fact that MEN and WOMEN perceive, read, expect, and emit emotions differently?
@@HomeFromFarAway since most people today don't even acknowledge the fact that both sexes operate differently, I would say it is more likely the exact opposite of what you just said.
Plot twist. Dr Mark is a Narcissist. 😂 I would cry if he is. Gives me hope. Maybe I can go to school and get a degree too. I am passionate about it. I only read literature. Bruh… He’s like, “I’m not here to cry about my problems.” 😂 Idk why I thought that was hilarious. Such a Narcissist thing to say. “No, no. You cry and tell me where it hurts. Not me.. I cry in the shower” 🚿 lmao
From a more scientific view: All mental and personality conditions are primarily neurological conditions. Chronic (consistent) conditions point at chronic underlying neurological malfunction (disruptions or neurodevelopmental limitations in the way the individual processes emotions, conducts himself socially etc). It’s not possible to fundamentally change a persons cognitive and behavioural patterns, especially not if neurological constraints lead to decreased mental flexibility (which they inevitably do)! Hence I propose the following: let us just accept people the way they are (unless they pose a serious threat to others or themselves) and stop trying to pin unsuitable psychoanalytical and esoteric terms on them in an poor and methodologically obsolete attempt to explain their condition mentally as opposed to scientifically / biologically (eg neurologically).
@@esahm373 You hint at an interesting fact. Compare the computer, you can write a letter and read it on a different kind of computer. So they are different entities, but not 'separate' from each other: the computer remains necessary. The brain runs the mind. It is called an emergent feature.
@@Nico1952 In your metaphor, what are the two different entities? Computer A and computer B or the computer and the letter / text file? No offense, but the example didn’t strike me as very applicable
Brings me a feeling of ease and lightheartedness to hear you speak openly about your crisis prior to coming on the live. That’s the sorta stuff that keeps me goin and reminds me of the value in authenticity and the relief that can be found in vulnerability.
Keep doing what you’re doing !!!
The question & answer about narcissism at the neurotic level is really interesting - would love to hear more about what happens at the different levels in the vids you’re thinking of doing. It’s such good stuff. Thank you ☺️
He is going to be doing the different levels. He's going to do the borderline level next.
Coming soon!
Just wanted to add my vote of support and nudge the algorithm ❤
Good program thus far! I grew up bouncing between a violent alcoholic home and foster care from 4 yo to 15 yo before running away and marrying. My young husband was from a broken home as well. We were Taoist into Zen and stayed with that belief system into our late sixties now. Together since young adulthood we took time to back up and address all that was toxic, challenging, and complicated in our original ‘dysfunctional’ nests. We also made a conscious effort to reply and replace all the feelings, events, and experiencing that we lost or lacked in childhood. It has been a healing journey that has enriched our 53 years together. 😊❤
@@mikekaren2128 That’s really amazing! I am so happy for you!
I absolutely agree with the empathy part of understanding it and feeling seen. It’s something I’ve been trying so hard, all my life to do.
This level of patience is it and this is what I mean when I try to tell people. Only compassion can solve this. Because trauma lies at the roots.
I’ve always felt a strong intuitive sense of this. I think this could also apply to people who feel sadism because I think that comes from a place of major pain. Seeing what others have and not having it all your life and knowing that’s what you’ve needed so badly to be happy.
Thank you for validating my life beliefs and how I feel about my emotional needs being right.
It is so hard to live and keep living when your entire life is traumatized and you see happy people and don’t have those positive experiences despite fighting so hard for them.
I always say “kindness isn’t free.” This video definitely validated that truth for me. It’s definitely a privilege and people need to start seeing that.
As someone with BPD, this talk helped me a lot with understanding myself. You're right about lack of empathy also being an issue...
I hope you consider talking more about BPD...
I would so profoundly value your take on cptsd and the overlap with npd, especially when cptsd has arisen from traumas in adulthood. I have seen profound changes in people who experienced ongoing traumas as adults and who seem stuck in a severe narcissistic pattern that was simply not there before
Also, CPTSD is definitely listed and described in the ICD, which is international. The DSM is decades behind on a lot of things
@@HomeFromFarAwayVan Der Kolk, one of the members of the panel proposing the C-PTSD diagnosis, and author of "The Body Keeps the Score", discusses the politics involved in the DSM's failure to include the diagnosis in his writing.
Great questions and great answers! Learned a lot again. Thank you for openly sharing your crisis! For what it's worth; I always look at your livestreams afterwards, because of the time difference (Europe). But, I always look forward to them popping up on my RUclips feed!
It makes sense that you were passionate about “they can’t be healed” considering you have put a lot of effort into learning how to heal them
You really need to be the voice on PDs that people need to hear.
I've learned so much from Dr. Ettenson. Not only about NPD. Thank you for doing this! Very much.
Your opening comment on the relationship we have with ourselves and the 3 possibilities or parts of that we bring into a relationship was brilliant. You have this way of citing and explaining things with such clarity. It was a aha moment . Thank you doctor.
Really do think general people need to understand the role of privilege this has in NPD development. Thank you for sharing your compassionate take on all this. I’ve lived with daily trauma my entire life with constant chaos 24/7 on a regular basis. It truly was a lack of privilege that I didn’t have access to that others do and take completely for granted. Because they don’t understand mental disorders and their causation/development. As I am listening to your videos I am finding relief amidst slight anxiety about my inner self. I am finding a lot of it making sense given my familial environment. My story growing up with a schizophrenic mother has been very tragic and hasn’t been spoken much but I hope more people will be open to hearing. The kind of psychological challenges it puts you through daily as a child is immense and suffocating and ruthless.
Thank you again for another video, Dr Ettensohn. So glad to have a compassionate professional in the field doing good work for people in real need of support.
I am separated realm a 63 year old covert, Machiavellian narcissist. He desperately wants to get better and repair all the damage he has done to me and our children, has done all manner of therapies for the past 20 years, has been working with a trauma therapist and a psychiatrist for the past two years, yet he still cannot accept blame or fault or full accountability for anything. And he is still doing the exact same promising me things and then sadistically withholding them or botching. I finally left him after 38 years because I found out he had been undermining me behind my back to all those close to me including my children. How can he teach himself how to accept he has sadistic impulses to exploit and/or abuse? It seems the more he wants to be different, the harder he leans into his illicit, cruel, and dishonest behaviors.
It's likely that he's not going to get better with you. You guys have probably gotten some pretty deep grooves that are hard to get out of. And as much as he promises as much as he says, obviously his actions tell a different story. One of the things that those of us with NPD have to learn to accept is the truth. That's the thing we are not very good at doing because we had to create a false self when we were very young in order to survive. And oftentimes the truth is very painful and very ugly and very shameful. But in this situation, the truth is he's not going to do the things you want him to do. And he's going to continue to do things that are destructive and damaging. NPD doesn't make you do bad things. That's a choice. We have free will. Yes it's a very serious mental illness. I know. I live with it. But it's my choice to hurt people or to not hurt people. If he doesn't think he can change, he needs to tell you that and you guys need to move on. It's not uncommon for people with NPD to lie and not know they're lying, but that doesn't mean you can't set up boundaries and expect him to stick to it. And if he doesn't stick to it, there are consequences obviously. You've done all that you can do, but moving on is probably the best thing you can do for him.
I was going to respond, but @@artisaline basically said it all and said it well. 👍🏼
Nobody is totally responsible for anything because we are all parts of a system. Free will is an illusion. Men see themselves through the eyes of the woman in their lives, and as long as you see him as a threat to you and your ego, he can’t possibly heal, because he sees himself that way too. My husband began to heal when I stopped seeing him as a threat to my ego, and gained a better understanding of what he experienced as a child which lead to him becoming the way he was. I developed lots of compassion and empathy for him, and stopped worrying that he would do or say something that would hurt my ego. When I could give him grace, he could finally give himself grace. If you are attached to the image of your husband as a “covert, Machiavellian narcissist”, then he will remain that character in your eyes. He’s in so much pain. He’s so afraid. I will say that if he was truly Machiavellian, he would tell you whatever you wanted to hear so that he could get his way. Maybe you need to believe he is Machiavellian because you are attached to him as a “bad guy”, and if the way you see him changes, so too will the way you see yourself. If he is your enemy, then in order for him to become “good”, you must become “bad”, and of course you don’t want that. You’re on the same team though, and your propensity to label him shows that you don’t see that.
@katieandnick4113 although you may be entirely correct- it's also potentially very dangerous advice to give a stranger about another stranger, not knowing what level of abuse is actually taking place in real life. Depending on what's actually happening- that could be the worst advice which may only facilitate enduring more abuse.
@@katieandnick4113 I do understand what you're saying. I can see how it could work. I think the important thing is that anyone involved with somebody diagnosed with NPD has to be aware that the person has most likely had a very painful and difficult childhood. That there has been trauma. That doesn't excuse bad behavior. That doesn't excuse abuse. I think if a person is in An abusive relationship, the best thing might be to leave. But if the relationship seems like it's worth saving, it's true that you're going to have to see your partner in ways that he or she might not see themselves. It isn't typical that a person with NPD can easily acknowledge that they are sitting on a world of pain and shame. Because that's the thing that terrifies them and hurts them the most. It's often what inspires a lot of the behavior that is difficult to understand. If you feel safe, then trying to help that person work past the mask either as grandiose or as vulnerable as they might be is the best thing you can do. See them as human. A hurt human. But trauma is a difficult thing. And sometimes there are relationships that prevent the partner from healing. Sometimes a person with NPD might choose a partner that they subconsciously know won't be a threat. And that means that they might not be able to heal or they might believe that they won't be able to heal with that partner. Every relationship is going to be different. First and foremost, make sure to protect yourself. If there is abuse, don't accept it. Try to remove yourself from that situation. But if you feel like you can make a difference for your partner, the one thing a person with NPD needs the most is somebody who will help them develop a better understanding of themselves. Because after all NPD is a disorder of the self. I'm glad people are talking about this in very open and honest ways without a lot of the rhetoric that we hear so often on social media. We can disagree. That's not a bad thing. As long as we're not pointing fingers and calling names. 😊
Thank you so much for your work, it's been really helpful!
You're very welcome!
Thank you so much for your videos. :) I really benefit from your explanations especially on personality organization (psychotic, borderline, neurotic, healthy, ...). Looking forward to the upcoming videos.
I love this channel please keep doing these uploads . So helpful to so many . Thank you
Thank you! Will do!
Thank you so much for the video. I think I never watched them live, but always catch up later and look forward for the new ones. A well-informed and non-judgmental discussion of NPD related topics is indeed a very rare kind of content on RUclips.
same here. my schedule rarely allows me to watch things live but I devour this content as soon as I am available ❤
YES another Live!! :D
25:50 dang I keep trying to improve myself till I find myself worthy of having friends.. it’s been 6 yrs.. haven’t gotten there yet
Just keep at it. If we consider how many years were spent by others dismantling our self-worth as kids...it shows that rebuilding it also takes time. All we can do is keep trying. ❤️🩹
I have NPD friends, though at the moment I keep my distance due to my own issues. therapy groups may be a good place to start
I also want to mention something that might not be thought about or talked about is the pain of having to be perfect, because if you weren’t you couldn’t survive in your environment. Literally, if you didn’t do or find out the right info you would be punished my life’s circumstances or things would become much more stressful and difficult for you than they already were. So people with NPD might have to choose from overwhelmx5 or overwhelm x50 in terms of stressful experiences. There was no non stressful experience. I just wish ppl had the compassion to see people with these suffering experiences as human and good enough. I feel like sometimes the line can’t really be drawn when it comes to whether they’re harming someone because what if they were hurt so much and so badly that they have to, in order to continue on? I guess it’s kind of similar to the drowning analogy mentioned in another video. But I feel if society only sees it as bad behavior and cuts people out who act “badly” then these people can never be healed or supported in the way they might desperately need to be. I think this also comes down to whether it’s okay for one person to suffer immensely lifelong versus another to suffer something, but overall less.
@@michelle1813 Perfectionism hit me hard. From every strand on my head to covering up every blemish on my body, to having to stay thin, to covering my tummy rolls, to wearing uncomfortable clothes because they looked good, to wearing skimpy outfits in the freezing cold..... I can go on and on. I was my own worst enemy. I was conditioned to believe that I'm not human.
Much Respect
Hey healNPD,
I am a 17 year old who been in a relationship well founded off mutual love and respect…. In a way I’m very lucky….
But I have RJ, and struggle with rocd and npd traits….. and abandonment anxiety (fear of devaluing)…. Negative introjects
You think I can still maintain this relationship as I do the inner work… as she is very supportive and very kind, allows me to be vulnerable…. And catch myself….
Despite what many say (can we love in this long term (she is not a narc)…. I may or may not be but worst case Is there I can overcome this…. And growth with her and due to common spiritual practice ✝️….
She is aware of my adhd,ocd, my wounds (I don’t use certain words even for myself)….
But thank you for your videos and the hope you offer ❤
be aware that religions can exacerbate certain conditions.
@@HomeFromFarAway as in ?
Is there any video on your channel advising NPD patients regarding how to spend rest of their remaining life and how to approach life? Narcs who are now living alone, totally devoid of any contact with family and friends, having already undergone mortification, having reached the middle age, having recognized themselves as someone who has lived whole life as a Narcissist, having created a hell for family members (but now thankfully family is no longer existent)? These Narcs have seen themselves in the mirror and recognized themselves as narcs, they've seen that they were living hiding behind the facade of a false fake artificial self which was developed as a defense mechanism in their childhood. Having realized this much, undergone mortification, now how should they proceed about approaching various facets of their life? I hope I was able to make myself clear.
I think Internal Family Systems is a useful modality for moving forward and finding healing and value in reality
Does someone at a psychotic level of NPD have a chance of achieving healthy levels of personality organization?
Hi Dr, appreciate all your work. I have a question regarding the different levels e.g. neurotic, borderline, psychotic. Can you go from psychotic level to neurotic or even ‘healed’? You said it’s like a ladder, can you go from one end of the spectrum to another? Would say I’ve been pretty stable before but feel quite paranoid/ psychotic atm, hope it to get back to feeling functional. Thanks
Good stuff!
Did you get psych education proficiency etc to fix yourself and or your family?
15:31 NPD: behavior swings from grandiosity vulnerability (pendulum)
...issues with inflation or deflation of self esteem.
The persons self image isn't realistic and it's not stable!
As a childhood CPTSD survivor, I can check all those NPD Behavior boxes ✅ ✅ ✅ !
Therefore, looks like NPD and CPTSD behavior overlap!
I was also falsely diagnosed "bipolar" for the same NPD behavior Dr. Ettensohn describes here!
I clearly have a history of wide swings in self image
17:15 ...we are not conscious of the ability to inflate self esteem when there is an instability... it's just the dynamics of the personality there is an instability there.
There’s two versions of my partners in my head. For me, I’ve had this deified goddess princess version of my ex in my head. Then when I flipped, that image of her in my head vanished and was replaced with another image, a malevolent succubus 😂 Pretty much. Or a malicious Siren. It’s two different people.
This makes me feel like I’ve been lied to, deceived, manipulated, taken for a fool, I’m humiliated, angry, mourning, in shock.. I start connecting dots in the past of all the things I dismissed before or perhaps didn’t notice.. then I start bringing it all up like lm exposing a conspiracy lol
The painful part is when the two versions rapidly shift back and forth within a short time span because I notice it happening and I’m left feeling helpless and ashamed because I know it’s in me and can do nothing about it. This continues on and on, getting worse and worse. It’s like my actual reality has been distorted. It’s almost hallucinatory.. It’s bizarre.
The way I see her, the way I perceived things, the paranoia. And going from interrogating her, criticizing her and berating her to pleading for her to forgive me once the other version shifts back in my head. It’s painful for both parties, not just one. But imagine this happens to me every time I fall in love or become close to anyone really. At least with her, it was a one time deal 😂
Poor girl. That was probably traumatizing. Not like she was entirely innocent herself.. she’s definitely cluster b herself.. histrionic/borderline… talk about rapid fire reactions and emotions, ridiculously theatrical, ostentatiously dramatic, so vulnerable I felt like I had to role play lol, constant emergencies where she needs my undivided attention lol Ahhh gotta love it.
He does a great job talking about this in this video. I think the thing for those of us with NPD that's difficult is there is this sense that we don't see the lack of continuity. In our minds it feels like when we devalue them it's always been that way. When we see them in that negative light, we feel like they've always been there. But for the partner, it must be so maddening. So disorienting. Because that's not really what happened. We just can't help that. I mean I think we can learn to deal with it and get better at it when we're conscious of it, but it's something that we do as a survival technique. I think now that you know this is your pattern, it's probably something that you need to say up front in any relationship you get into. For me it's keeping me from getting into relationships because I know I have to do some stuff with myself first. But we are all different obviously
@@artisaline I know what you mean. I think about that a lot tbh. It’s so bizarre to me. How could I not see what was happening? I mean the devaluation and idealization phases. The idealization part, as much as I hate to admit it, I had some awareness about that, because I knew I was sort of having these sort of conversations with the internal, ideal version in my head.
I felt like she was a phantom, an eidolon or a ghost that followed me around, spoke to me (internally), interacted with me and commented on things I said and did throughout the day. I had awareness of this, I knew it was happening but I guess I thought nothing of it?
Which is fine because how am I supposed to know if that is normal or not? I can’t read minds 😂 But that was a sense of shame about it, as if I ought not to be doing this, despite the fact it felt like it was happening to me rather than something I actively engaged in.
Regardless, I had awareness of it. Yet, I brushed it off. Even when I played scenarios out in my head between her and I, then would attempt to bring the fantasy to fruition, I thought nothing of it despite the awareness I had. How could something occurring in my mind have real world consequences? …As I try to manifest these fantasies. 🙄
It’s BIZARRE. Lol. I was aware that I harbored this deified, ethereal goddess version of my ex in my head.. Projecting it onto her, ignoring any given disparity between reality and fantasy. Nonchalantly living in a dream like state.. Like wtf? 😂 🤷♂️ I suppose it hits different in the moment but man… How can I not see what’s happening? The devaluation is much different though because I feel I had no hand in constructing that image of her in my head, it’s much more intrusive and out of my control.
Although… this begs the question.. Now that I think about it… How much control do you have over fantasies? If you have them, I would assume you do. I feel like that’s the heart of NPD and it’s a symptom that is rarely discussed in the literature. It’s like nobody talks about it but that trait alone contributes to nearly all the other aspects of the disorder. Pretty much. Anyway.. How much control do you have over fantasies? I say I had awareness, but as far as being in the drivers seat, I can’t say for sure. Devaluation felt like I wasn’t driving at all. Did anything I say resonate? If so, what’s your experiences like?
PS: I wouldn’t tell anyone you’re interested in dating about having NPD. 😂 Bad idea. You will never get a girlfriend again lol The stigma online is unreal. It’s so bad. Well… Nevermind. lol. You definitely will because there’s a sort of Narcissism fetish going on it seems. lol Millions of people talking about a disorder when they have no idea what they’re talking about at all. It’s wild!
Me personally? I don’t date. Don’t bother with friends, it’s been years since I had a friend. Not because I can’t make friends, I’ve never struggled with that. I just know how it goes m, man. I get hurt. They get hurt. Close relationships for me are traumatizing. Literally. For me and them. I don’t rage or get violent or verbally bully anyone. Idk. I do weird things. For reasons I don’t understand.
I used to have similar feelings about my boyfriend. At first, he was the best boyfriend ever (in my mind) and then I couldn't stand him....after a lot of therapy with a therapist that is clearly not narcissistic, I kinda started to learn from her and this splitting in my head got less and less extreme. It feels soo good to see both good and bad parts of somebody at the same time. By the way, splitting was also happening with bosses and teachers in my life. I think there is hope and as long as you are alive, you should keep trying. Also, I want to say that avoiding relationships might not be so good, because when you have issues in a relationship you can talk about them with your therapist and growth can happen.
Wow, the way you described how you feel may as well be exactly how the guy i was involved with has felt about every single woman he's ever been with (me included). But that is NOT me comparing him to you. Just the process of idealization and devaluation. I'm not even sure he realizes how he'd contradict himself from one day to the next with his rants or laments about them. Like how his longest relationship ex was soooo stupid and incapable of even tying her own shoes...the girl was a doctor, btw. And then the next day saying she was conniving and super smart and knew exactly how to play him. And one minute he's b*tching about how controlling she was and how she forced him to be her house boy by walking her dog and cooking since she was doing long ER shifts during covid and he was just sitting around at home getting drunk (mind you she bought their house and paid all the bills and he contributed barely even any food money, and what decent money he did make from being an artist and musician- he hid from her and pocketed "because he knew she'd leave him someday and he was preparing for exactly what happened"), but then later casually mentions that he would spend 3 or 4 days straight at his musician friend's boys club party house being 24/7 wasted and on coke and that she had the nerve to annoy him with pissed texts asking him if and when he was coming home, or complaining that he likes sexy photos of all these other girls online and never bothers to like her photos anymore...because that was "controlling" since he did things like build a shed for her so what more could she want. And he even admitted to me that he stopped liking her photos out of spite because she was clearly posting them for attention. Sigh. He hates her rotten guts, is convinced she was the narcissist who had BPD, (he was diagnosed BPD in his 20s but is NPD too) and always knew she was garbage who would leave him one day, and then the next day she's the only woman he ever truly loved, was sure she'd be his forever life partner, and he gave her everything. It's brutal for all people involved, because I know he too suffers from the way he perceives his life.
@@LizKcer Would have to get into therapy with a competent therapist first, but yeah I agree. If I’m in therapy, I can work things out and find out if I’m being crazy or not. 😂 Hopefully I don’t get mad and devalue the therapist.
I don't believe that adults should have unconditional love, I think children should receive unconditional love from their parents and caregivers but adult relationships have conditions in my opinion. Healthy relationships have condional love.
I'm really enjoying the livestream though and I appreciate your openness on this topic and your unique perspective is amazing and enlightening.
@insignia2543 - You and I don’t disagree. I was saying that we are all entitled to have unconditional love during the early part of our development.
@@healnpdwould adults with NPD who missed out on that be able to grow without the unconditional love they didn’t have, if they are still traumatized at an early level? I think if we all deserve it as children then the ones not given it should receive it somehow, in some way, so they can heal.
@insignia2543 - I think the only way it’s possible is in therapy.
@@healnpd I think what’s unfair is that for people who can’t get that help in therapy or if there isn’t a therapist available for that person, there should be another way ie finding someone who is compassionate enough and understanding of the persons situation so they can also help them and support them. It feels like that’s the other way but the world/society doesn’t really welcome this.
QUESTION: How much of this "Narcissist accusation" craze comes down to the natural fact that MEN and WOMEN perceive, read, expect, and emit emotions differently?
probably less than what most people think
@@HomeFromFarAway since most people today don't even acknowledge the fact that both sexes operate differently, I would say it is more likely the exact opposite of what you just said.
Plot twist. Dr Mark is a Narcissist. 😂 I would cry if he is. Gives me hope. Maybe I can go to school and get a degree too. I am passionate about it. I only read literature.
Bruh… He’s like, “I’m not here to cry about my problems.” 😂 Idk why I thought that was hilarious. Such a Narcissist thing to say. “No, no. You cry and tell me where it hurts. Not me.. I cry in the shower” 🚿 lmao
From a more scientific view: All mental and personality conditions are primarily neurological conditions.
Chronic (consistent) conditions point at chronic underlying neurological malfunction (disruptions or neurodevelopmental limitations in the way the individual processes emotions, conducts himself socially etc).
It’s not possible to fundamentally change a persons cognitive and behavioural patterns, especially not if neurological constraints lead to decreased mental flexibility (which they inevitably do)!
Hence I propose the following: let us just accept people the way they are (unless they pose a serious threat to others or themselves) and stop trying to pin unsuitable psychoanalytical and esoteric terms on them in an poor and methodologically obsolete attempt to explain their condition mentally as opposed to scientifically / biologically (eg neurologically).
The mind is a complex layered system. The idea that it is only a physical / neurological problem, is obsolete.
@@Nico1952 It’s neither an idea, nor is it obsolete. If anything, Freudian esoteric approaches are obsolete
@@Nico1952 Are you implying that “the mind” exists outside of and independent from physical structures and biological processes?
@@esahm373 You hint at an interesting fact. Compare the computer, you can write a letter and read it on a different kind of computer. So they are different entities, but not 'separate' from each other: the computer remains necessary. The brain runs the mind. It is called an emergent feature.
@@Nico1952 In your metaphor, what are the two different entities? Computer A and computer B or the computer and the letter / text file? No offense, but the example didn’t strike me as very applicable