I understand patch bays but when the time has come to wire in my own, getting my head around choosing a work flow for my processing has been an imaginative headache full of confusion! This is by far the best video on patch bays that RUclips has to offer! None of them show somebody actually processing and yours explains it in so much better detail. And believe me, I’ve seen them all. 😂 thank you
This is great stuff. No one ever shows the physical connecting/connections for different scenarios, which I think would benefit mostly anyone. Every other "tutorial" thinks pointing and explaining and using your imagination is all anyone needs. But, some of us are tactile/procedural learners, so thank you very much for taking the time (and taking some of your studio apart) to walk us through it. AND for demoing the results of the wiring. 10/10 on the video!
@@YHRS I agree, some others do bla bla bla, and never show the magic, I'm ready to work with multi analog cables, but the patch bay was unknown area for me, thanks for this simple example what a patch can do.
Yeah I watched a video before this where they never showed the actual cabling and I didn't quite get it. Your video made it click right away. Great work.
Agreed: wonderful way of explaining things, for all levels! One reason this type of learning is more rare is it is harder and more time consuming to make. Thanks for taking the time.
If had this video when I first started I believe I would've had much more success as an intern just starting out at an analogue recording studio. Best video on patch bays I've ever seen. Really wish youtube had recommended it sooner. I use to search youtube forever on a video that took the patch bay apart like this but none of them do. Thank you for being the first to do it right. God bless you, sir 🙏
I have tasked myself with setting up a patch bay this weekend, I have watched many videos on how to do it. This one is by far the best; clear and concise, you really have explained the very basic concepts in a way that is going to help me set up some quite complicated routing. It's the normal and half normal thing that is often badly described, I now know that I need to be using half normal for the way I want to have individual outs from 2 drum machines running into my mixer, I've been really struggling with the concepts involved all week, it has now become clear, I can actually visualise how I'm going to set it all up. Thanks so much for this.
Oh man, that's so great to hear! I'm so glad that this was helpful. I still have to stop and think through my patchbay routing all of the time, so you're not alone in your confusion! Best of luck getting all set up and connected!
Excellent video. Thank you so much for actually SHOWING where the cables connect. It makes much more sense this way. This video alone is worth subbing to this channel!
I recently invested in the same ART P48 patchbay and this video has helped immensely! Although, it would be cool to see someone set up their entire patchbay in a normal fashion just so others can see how you hook up all the gear.
Thanks! Honestly I keep changing my mind on how I've got everything hooked up in my own studio. But the principals are the same, just on a larger scale. I just decide one input at a time, whether I want the patchbay to make the connection or if I want to do it via a patch cable. Then, invariably, I change my mind and rewire everything :D
There is actually nothing at all wrong with using a patchbay as a "thru" box, if that is how it works best. I recently added a new patchbay to my setup, and after spending a few days staring at a list of all the in/outs I needed to make, and drawing out dozens of possible patch setups, I realized that the most economical, (and easiest), way to go was to just set every stack in the bay as a "Thru". Doing that allowed me to hook up everything I wanted, leaving around a half-dozen still available for future use.
Great video. I'm in a similar place with patch bays. Had one for years - a Signex Q Patch QPP48. The configuration is either Normalised or Isolated. You actually flip the board on each pair to determine which way you have. I'm looking to buy a new patch bay to replace it. Most of the patch bays I'm looking at can be 'Half-Normalised' or 'Full Normalised' so I was a bit lost! This video helped heaps.
Thank you!! I just got into analog gear and this saved my butt! I just got the VLA II and I was looking for some video help to set-up a patch bay for my other gear! Subbed to your channel! :)
I'm relieved to see that I'm not the only one that has a problem with patch bay cable routing. Even after you do figure it out, you're still standing there with smoke starting to vent out your ears as your brain overheat's. It would be impossible follow the wiring of a patch bay with radar but for such a simple straightforward piece of equipment, why oh bloody why does it perplex and confuse so many of us?
The element of one channel of the compressor "bleeding" slight signal to the secondary channel is known as "crosstalk". It's measured in dB units, and if that much crosstalk is occuring, there may be more problems than simply the seperate channels of that compressor. Signal to noise is a similar measurement to crosstalk, which, in this case, is severe in nature.
Missed opportunity with the main outs from the interface. Would have been a good example of the "default route" being to monitors but then interrupting the chain to record to the secondary interface for the video. Or also an excellent example of using half normal to simultaneously send the output to the monitors and the second interface
So wait. Let's say you have a mixer you put the XLR mic into the regular XLR input and then you put the output of the mixer into the patchbay and then back into a line in input of the mixer under that XLR?
Thanks! Honestly, the XLR patchbay is kinda boring and basic. It's basically just a cable coupler that I use to get rear-panel connections within reach. It doesn't have the top/bottom row of jacks so it doesn't do any fancy implicit connections like the TRS bay does.
Great explanation, as I'm relatively new to the hardware side of things in my home studio (only having Steinberg UR28M and Presonus Monitor station as I run 5 sets of monitors) I have often wondered how to hook up for example a higher end Audient ID44 audio controller to the likes of an SPL Frontliner which has multiple ins and outs for it's multiple functionalities. I would of thought that it would have just one in and out and then turn the compressor, eq, de-esser and tube saturation on and off, but their all separate. The Audient has ins and outs like a patch bay I think (2 of them) but does that mean I wouldn't need a patch bay?... I still haven't got used the concept, but will watch this a few times and hopefully have it sink in, thanks for the great content.
I just bought this same patchbay and have never had multiple hard synths before recently. I'm hoping to use it to organize my 4 retro 19" rackmount synths so I can have a single set of 2 TRS cables going from the patchbay to my USB audio interface (an m-audio 192/14). I have 3 more modern non-rackmount synths to connect to the rest of the inputs on the USB interface itself. Am I correct in saying that I would plug the L&R from each rack synth into the TOP inputs on the back (1&2, 3&4, etc), the cables going to the USB interface on the two BOTTOM outputs on the back of a separate channel (e.g. 9&10), and then use patch cables on the front to quickly patch between say the L&R on channels 1&2 (top) to the outputs of 9&10 (bottom)? Apologies if this doesn't make sense, I'm a nube at this. I'm just looking for the quickest way to switch between the rack synths, which will be listened to through the speakers attached to the USB interface, and used as external synths within Ableton, and not much else other than that (e.g. I don't intend on buying any rack mounted compressors or FX ...not in the near future anyhow!). If possible I would also like to be able to 'stack' the rackmount synths though (i.e. so I can have sound coming from more than 1 rack synth simultaneously).
Ok still a little confused. But with this. If I connect all my hardware from my audio rack into the back of my patch bay. If I want to reorder things like say I want a certain compressor first before a limited or something, I can do that from the front? Instead of having to turn my rack around to have a different signal chain?
Hey thanks for the video, it was what I was looking for! By the way, how do you like the VLA II? Will it bring at least some of the "valve warmth" or is it more "transparent"? :D
The VLA II is definitely more on the subtle side of things. It can get pretty conspicuous sounding, but it excels at gentle compression for things like vocal and bass guitar. I'd say it's most similar to an opto compressor in its character. And the tubes are just in the output stage, which makes it kinda tough to drive them without clipping your interface's returns/inputs. I think it's a great comp though.
Hi Thanks for the explanation. How would i set up a Sidechain ? I have two types of Compressor one has an Insert type (dbx 266xs) Sidechain input and a (Furman LC-6 ) which has an IN & OUT Jack for each Sidechain. From your Video would the Insert one use Normal? Not got a clue about the other one. It states that the dbx one if a jack is inserted it breaks the connection from the INPUT jack to the 266xs detection circuit. So if it was Normal it would complete the circuit until i send a signal through the patchbay input? Does that sound about right? Any help would be appreciated :)
Thanks for the great tutorial. I still have some questions. I am designing one for my personal studio. I have a unique situation. I am a guitar player and have alot of outboard gear. So I am trying to set up my 002 rack, and multiple guitar preamp (Ada mp1, ada mp2, etc.) Along with a lexicon mpx1 and alesis midiverb fx processors and some compressors/dynamics units (3630 comp, bbe 462, behringer EQ, ). I am trying to set it up in a way that will allow me to use 1 of the guitar pres, and allow me to patch it to different config of the other gear depending on my need at that time. So each guitar pre has a left and right output. I could route those to the inputs on the compressor. Then have another patch set up for the effects return& send and patch that to the mpx2 effects unit. Then route the output of the effects to input #7 &8 on the 002r and the guitar preamp back to inputs 1&2 on the 002r. (Allowing me to maintain an unaffected guitar channel in case I change my mind) My question is in this design which w o uld be my best option? Thanks in advance
Hello i was wondering about hooking up a fmr compressor ? I understand they want unbalanced cable's, and these are balanced, how could we hook that up to work, thanks ! By the way great video a lot of video's do not show it like this thank you again for this !
Great Video thanks. Are there any patchbays with quarter inch and XLR inputs? how would I manage to plug in a few mics and my xlr out guitar amp to a patchbay? Simply use an XLR to two stereo 1/4" converter?
I don't know of any patchbays that have both XLR and TRS connectors on them. Assuming that your amp is outputting a line level signal (you don't want to send an amplified output anywhere but a speaker cabinet) then you could use an XLR-TRS cable to get the amp's line level signal into your patchbay. I do the same with my Torpedo when I want to get a line signal out of it.
How would you recommend setting up API lunch box DB25 to trs jack for patchbay. I also run a White industries vintage to channel EQ And a antelope Synergy core discreet 8. Plus rack another 8 tracks clocked and a extra mastering unit. All set within a custom desk 30 degree angles cut through so easy access to change the configuration. I am running a neutral NYS-SPP-L1 It's settings are half normalled split and isolated. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Absolutely fantastic video by the way. 🙌
Sounds like a great setup! I've looked at the NYS-SPP, and the way it's set up is definitely throwing me for a loop as well. The PDF documents on their website are all in German, so that's a no-go for me (I only speak English and C++ 😁). Mainly what I can gather is that either way each module is turned, patching into the gray jack will set it to a "through" mode. Otherwise, In the standard position, it seems to be a half-normal setup. And in the turned position it's basically the reverse, where the input and output on the front both go to the input on the back. That's definitely confusing to me.
@@YHRS thanks do much for your reply. I'm glad I'm not the only one confused by German Tech. It got me confused so I was just going to run isolated .. not really what I wanted.. Tho if you can recommend anything I'm all ears . Thanks again regards Chad 🙌
Ha, I do that too! although I haven't yet found a tape that doesn't eventually let go and slide down the length of the cable after a couple of years. But those tape labels really helped get things set back up after moving studios a couple of times.
I have everything hooked up to my scarlet 18i20. Focusrite control is pathed right. I get signal through all components. However, I get no signal in my daw (Yes it's set up to send and receive signal through designated outputs/inputs) I get no instrument signal, only static, and sometimes feedback if I ever so slightly raise the volume. I'm at a loss.
So in short words you end up using a ton of cables to loop one acoustic guitar signal out to a compressor and back in to the soundcard. I bought a patchbay not really knowing what to use it for and now I´m even more confused lol. I´m seriously starting to doubt I got any use for a patchbay in my home recording studio other than to save wear on the ports of my gear from constantly plugin cables in and out of it. At least since I mostly do "traditional" recording with preamps and mics.
I think that the main benefit of a patchbay is to bring all of your studio connections into one easy-to-reach spot. If you're plugging/unplugging a lot to make different connections, then a patchbay is really handy. But if you tend to "set and forget" most of your connections, then it's probably not necessary.
11:28 you point to the half normal diagram yet say "were in normal mode".. was kinda confusing. but I herd you say "were putting this in normal mode" in the setup so I figured it was just a mistake.. thanks for the vid
Interesting that the button to change the flow is on the back of a device designed to eliminate the need to access the back of your gear. Why not on the front?
Agreed! I'm a little puzzled by that as well. Of course I can't think of a time that I ever wanted to change the setting so it hasn't been an issue. But if I ever wanted to change it, it would be a giant pain to reach the button!
I guess that the mode is on the back, since if you can press it on the front, you might get some unexpected results if the mode is not pre-thought of before. You could easily end up with an unwanted loop or something. Having the normal is a no brainer, but allowing half normal will potentially make things work unexpectedly if the routing has not been thought through enough.
@@oysteinsoreide4323 I think this must be why the S-Patch Plus (which has N/HN/thru selectors on the front) uses almost-flush switches, so that they can't be knocked accidentally.
This was very useful, thanks. A quick question re the cabling and patching. I imagine if your compressor has XLR only you'd use an XLR to balanced cable going in and out of the back yes? Also, your patch cables at the front, are they balanced/TRS?
Thanks so much! Yes, that's how I route XLR stuff into my TRS patchbay: with XLR to TRS cables. It maintains the balanced connection through the patchbay. The only time I don't recommend going from XLR to TRS is any time the signal carries phantom power. That's a good setup to fry something! Oh and yes, my patch cables are TRS as well. I'm using patch cables from GLS, and a few from Hosa as well.
@@YHRS Thanks, very helpful. Recently bought a couple of bits of outboard gear and realised that I'd get teh most out of it, especially using them as inserts, if I got a patchbay. Thanks to your response I'll order one today
@@YHRS Hi, you say that it's not good to use XLR to TRS cable if it carries phantom power, that's good to know, but what about just TRS cable carrying phantom power, is that ok? Thank you!
Im going my mic to the front of my xlr patch bay coming out the back of that into the output row of the trs patch bay. Then im going from my interface xlr mic input into the bottow row input of my trs patchay. Then i set up a outboard mic pre, output of that into top row input of that into bottom.. (once i patched it.. everything is clear and fine im getting clean signal etc..) i then added my distressor compressor, output of that into output of tra patchay and input of that into bottow row of trs patchbay. NOW AS SOON AS I PATCH/ SEND SIGNAL FROM MY MIC PRE TO THE compressor i get this insane white noise like when you would leave your tv on channel 3 ive tried everything with no luck.. help? :(
Best explanation keeping starters in mind with practical info unlike most RUclips vids where mostly people showing off their gear. Thank you. I also want to connect my preamps with phantom powered mics. Is that possible? Cheers
Thanks! I use an XLR patchbay for my preamps, and I pass phantom power through the patchbay. Just be careful doing that, since it's possible to accidentally send phantom power to a destination that does not like phantom power :)
@@YHRS Yeah that's why I asked. I heard that xlr to trs will not pass the phantom power though. So from xlr patch bay that has xlr inputs how do you connect the preamp? Does xlr patchbay acts as a barrier? If so how? Thanks for the earlier reply.
@@aLoudSi1ence I just use my XLR patchbay as a way to bring the connections from the back of my rack to the front. So I just treat them as extensions of the inputs/outputs on the back of my preamp(s). My XLR patchbay is just a simple "inputs on the front, outputs on the back" device. It doesn't have the complexity of my TRS patchbay that has normal/half-normal operation. The XLR patchbay is just basically a cable coupler. I run an XLR cable from my patchbay to the mic input of my preamp. So any phantom power or signal is passed to/from that input, just like it would be if I were to plug directly into it. Same for the output. It's a TRS 1/4" cable from the preamp output to my patchbay. Then I can route that wherever I would normally route it, as if I were plugging directly into the back of the preamp. Hopefully I made enough sense to describe the setup :)
Unfortunately, no. A 2x2 interface still only has 2 inputs and 2 outputs. A patchbay just helps make it easier to route inputs and outputs around your studio.
Great video. Are you still happy with the ART p48? Some budget patchbays tend to get wobbly sockets after some time and I'm in the market for something rigid. Would appreciate your input.
So far, so good with the P48. I haven't had any shorts, broken connections, crackles or intermittent signals yet. It's actually holding up really well, and the jacks all still feel great when plugging and unplugging. I'm actually pretty impressed by this patchbay!
If I only have stereo outputs 1 & 2 on my scarlett 2i4 (and not use the unbalanced RCA outputs), is it possible to still route to my outboard compressor and somehow route it back into my interface to hear it thru my monitors? Can that be done with a patchbay somehow?
I think you can do that. Since you have 4 outputs (2x balanced, 2x unbalanced) you can use 2 of those outputs to send to your monitors and the other 2 to send to outboard gear. Although unbalanced isn't ideal for either of those uses, it'll work anyways. I don't think that a patchbay is going to be much help beyond making it easier to reach the inputs/outputs on your gear. Best of luck!
That was terrific, thank you. That got my head starting to be able to process the routing and "half normal" weirdness. Speaking of routing, that's a lot of cabling! Four cables for one compressor channel! So answer me this...you have your little acoustic track, right? You send it through your compressor for some gentle massaging, then it comes back into the DAW. What if you want to permanently apply that compressor to the track? That's easy to do with a plug in. How would you do that with hardware? Do you have to re-record that track as it plays through the compressor?
Thanks Greg! Yeah, the number of cables it takes to wire 4 compressors, 2 channel strips, a preamp, a wireless mic, an ADAT preamp, and the Torpedo is insane! It's really a terrifying mess behind that rack when it's all wired up. As for "printing" outboard FX onto a track, you got it right. You have to render the individual track in real-time in order to get an audio track with the FX printed to it. Or just never touch the cables or settings on the outboard gear for the lifetime of the project :) At least you can do several tracks at the same time, depending on how many channels of outboard FX you have.
@@YHRS Ok, thanks. Next question....suppose you're limited on interface ins/outs. Say you only have one unused in/out channel available on the interface. Can you have several hardware effects sitting out there, permanently connected in the patchbay, and just send your one available send/return from the interface out to any of those hardware units via patchbay? It seems like you should be able to.
@@GL64 Oh, definitely! That'd be a great application for a patchbay. Just patch your interface inputs/outputs and all of the ins/outs of the effects units into into the patchbay, and connect them with patch cables on the front of the patchbay. That makes it easy to switch what your interface is connected to, without having to have access to the backs of everything.
@@GL64 If you setup your patch bay "normalised", meaning default inputs and outputs to and from your interface, then you only need to patch if you need to use a different ourboard gear.
Can a patchbay act as a mixer? E.G., say I have a 12 channel mixer but I need 16 channels. If I’m ok with not being able to adjust the volume, etc, would this work?
I'm not clear on what you're trying to do. In general, no, a patchbay cannot act as a mixer. Can you describe your goal a bit more, and maybe we can figure out what will accomplish that goal.
it looks like you are using monoprice TRS cables. I have heard some good things and a few bad things. Do those have any issues? The few I have seen have really thick cable, which may just be thin wire and lots of plastic around the wire. Thoughts on these cables? Also, what kind of interface is that?
I've been a big fan of Monoprice's Premiere Series pro audio cables. They've got great connectors and I can't beat the price, especially when bought in larger quantities. I'd estimate that I've got over 50 of these cables behind my rack, and they've been great. I did have 1 fail on me, but I guess that's still a pretty good success rate :) You're right, they are very thick. I like the feel of them, though. They're supple and flexible, and they don't retain weird kinks that some other inexpensive cables do. The thickness of the cables can complicate your cable management if you have a lot of them and you're trying to run them in tight spaces. Overall, I can recommend them for situations where they're plugged in and left alone. Oh, and my interface is an RME FireFace UCX. It's really an amazing interface. If mine ever bites the dust, I'd replace it with another RME in a heartbeat (assuming that I can afford it 😁)
Your Home Recording Studio Thanks for the response. What’s their premier series. Do they have another series? I’m not super familiar with monoprices product lines. Judging by your message I’m assuming there is cheaper or better line that’s by mono price? Is that the case? I needed a bunch of 2 foot power cables for a bunch of rack gear and I bought 20 of them from Mono price for just over a dollar apiece. That’s insane. Do they handle returns? Is the customer service good? For the one bad cable that you got, did you have any trouble getting it replaced?
Good question! I'm of the mindset that as long as they have good connectors and are properly shielded and wired, then any cable will do a good job. I use GLS patch cables, which I would call "medium" quality cables and connectors. I haven't had any issues with noise or interference, so they seem to be doing a good job!
As far as I can tell, the P48 can only do through mode if there are cables plugged into all 4 jacks of a single channel. That's what the block diagram on the top of the unit shows, at least.
So say if I grab the new autaria fuse audio pre8 can I use four outboard gear with the patchbay. And do it matter on the audiointerface outside and in. I just sub too dooe vid strait to the point.
I actually hadn't heard of the Audio Fuse 8Pre before. That looks like a really cool interface! Yes, it looks like the 8Pre has plenty of line inputs and outputs that would allow you to loop in external hardware. And it even has not one, but two (!!!) sets of ADAT in/out so you could get another 16 analog inputs and outputs if you pair it with a couple of ADAT preamps like the Behringer ADA8200. That'd be a whole lot of connectivity!
I hate the fact that the switches are on the BACK. For a synth person, it makes no sense to me, there are times where I want to split/duplicate the signal and other times not....
Unfortunately, no. The interface is limited to however many inputs/outputs it has. The patchbay is mainly a way to bring those inputs/outputs to an easy-to-access location and make it easier to change connections without having to crawl around behind your desk.
I understand patch bays but when the time has come to wire in my own, getting my head around choosing a work flow for my processing has been an imaginative headache full of confusion! This is by far the best video on patch bays that RUclips has to offer! None of them show somebody actually processing and yours explains it in so much better detail. And believe me, I’ve seen them all. 😂 thank you
Thank you so much, I appreciate your kind words!
This is great stuff. No one ever shows the physical connecting/connections for different scenarios, which I think would benefit mostly anyone. Every other "tutorial" thinks pointing and explaining and using your imagination is all anyone needs. But, some of us are tactile/procedural learners, so thank you very much for taking the time (and taking some of your studio apart) to walk us through it. AND for demoing the results of the wiring. 10/10 on the video!
Thanks so much! I appreciate your kind words.
@@YHRS I agree, some others do bla bla bla, and never show the magic, I'm ready to work with multi analog cables, but the patch bay was unknown area for me, thanks for this simple example what a patch can do.
Yeah I watched a video before this where they never showed the actual cabling and I didn't quite get it. Your video made it click right away. Great work.
Agreed: wonderful way of explaining things, for all levels! One reason this type of learning is more rare is it is harder and more time consuming to make. Thanks for taking the time.
Couldn’t have said it better myself!
the absolute best understanding of a patch bay iv ever seen
This is the best patchbay video I have ever seen. This one provides live examples on how to set it up. Thank you!
If had this video when I first started I believe I would've had much more success as an intern just starting out at an analogue recording studio. Best video on patch bays I've ever seen. Really wish youtube had recommended it sooner. I use to search youtube forever on a video that took the patch bay apart like this but none of them do. Thank you for being the first to do it right. God bless you, sir 🙏
I have tasked myself with setting up a patch bay this weekend, I have watched many videos on how to do it. This one is by far the best; clear and concise, you really have explained the very basic concepts in a way that is going to help me set up some quite complicated routing. It's the normal and half normal thing that is often badly described, I now know that I need to be using half normal for the way I want to have individual outs from 2 drum machines running into my mixer, I've been really struggling with the concepts involved all week, it has now become clear, I can actually visualise how I'm going to set it all up. Thanks so much for this.
Oh man, that's so great to hear! I'm so glad that this was helpful. I still have to stop and think through my patchbay routing all of the time, so you're not alone in your confusion! Best of luck getting all set up and connected!
Excellent video. Thank you so much for actually SHOWING where the cables connect. It makes much more sense this way. This video alone is worth subbing to this channel!
I recently invested in the same ART P48 patchbay and this video has helped immensely! Although, it would be cool to see someone set up their entire patchbay in a normal fashion just so others can see how you hook up all the gear.
Thanks! Honestly I keep changing my mind on how I've got everything hooked up in my own studio. But the principals are the same, just on a larger scale. I just decide one input at a time, whether I want the patchbay to make the connection or if I want to do it via a patch cable. Then, invariably, I change my mind and rewire everything :D
There is actually nothing at all wrong with using a patchbay as a "thru" box, if that is how it works best. I recently added a new patchbay to my setup, and after spending a few days staring at a list of all the in/outs I needed to make, and drawing out dozens of possible patch setups, I realized that the most economical, (and easiest), way to go was to just set every stack in the bay as a "Thru". Doing that allowed me to hook up everything I wanted, leaving around a half-dozen still available for future use.
Thank you! Was trying to wrap my head around what people were talking about, and well this put it all in perspective. Perfect video
I’m still confused, just a lot less so
Great video. I'm in a similar place with patch bays. Had one for years - a Signex Q Patch QPP48. The configuration is either Normalised or Isolated. You actually flip the board on each pair to determine which way you have. I'm looking to buy a new patch bay to replace it. Most of the patch bays I'm looking at can be 'Half-Normalised' or 'Full Normalised' so I was a bit lost! This video helped heaps.
Thank you!! I just got into analog gear and this saved my butt! I just got the VLA II and I was looking for some video help to set-up a patch bay for my other gear! Subbed to your channel! :)
Absolutely great video! I'm starting to take the outboard rack route for the studio and found this video super useful and well made. Thanks!
Thank you! The best explanation of concept pathbay which I bought today!
So glad to hear that it was helpful! I hope that you had a smooth installation of your patchbay.
Thanks for explaining ‘Half normal’ duplicating the signal (acting as a mult)
I'm relieved to see that I'm not the only one that has a problem with patch bay cable routing. Even after you do figure it out, you're still standing there with smoke starting to vent out your ears as your brain overheat's. It would be impossible follow the wiring of a patch bay with radar but for such a simple straightforward piece of equipment, why oh bloody why does it perplex and confuse so many of us?
because you are not studying electronics :)
@@HazeAnderson I studied electronics, and yes we learned about matrixes, but a patch bay isn't that simple to route, so don't be so cocky.
@@Bluelagoonstudios you are projecting.
4:14 Thank you for the Young Frankenstein reference, much appreciated! :D
I came here to say this. Thought I was the only one! We old!!!!!!
@@timothyharrison Fairly old, yes! :D One of the finest comedies ever made.
The best one so far on this topic. Finally I understood smth) ! Thanks much.
The element of one channel of the compressor "bleeding" slight signal to the secondary channel is known as "crosstalk". It's measured in dB units, and if that much crosstalk is occuring, there may be more problems than simply the seperate channels of that compressor. Signal to noise is a similar measurement to crosstalk, which, in this case, is severe in nature.
Another great video! Thanks bro. Sure wish a company other than Switchcraft made a TT patch bay at a reasonable cost. 1/4in so big.
An excellent explanation 👍🎶
After watching this I’m just going to mix in the box 😂
Lol seriously
Until you get to the level where you realize your mix just isn’t comparing to the greats. Then you’ll learn and appreciate the hybrid setups.
Go with a hybrid set up. gotta have the best of both worlds my fellow producer
ajajajajajajajajajajajajaja !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Fuck all that.
Yes Batch bay $250.00. All the cables $459.95. Total $745.95. Figuring out what settings to use on the patch bay. PRICELESS.
Missed opportunity with the main outs from the interface. Would have been a good example of the "default route" being to monitors but then interrupting the chain to record to the secondary interface for the video. Or also an excellent example of using half normal to simultaneously send the output to the monitors and the second interface
Thank you sir for your packaged information
i really appreciate you cutting out gulps and lip smacks. more people could learn a lesson from you. great job. also helpful video thank you
Great presentation
I love your videos man, keep it up with the good work!
So wait. Let's say you have a mixer you put the XLR mic into the regular XLR input and then you put the output of the mixer into the patchbay and then back into a line in input of the mixer under that XLR?
I guess that it depends on what your goal is. What are you hoping to achieve with your routing?
Bloody Excellent.... full marks.
Thanks! It was a very good explanation
Thank you so much for this video!
Thank you for the video, very informative. Keep it up please :)
Thank's for this helpful tutorial! 😃👍
Great video and as an added bonus, your voice has more than a shade of Kermit, to it., "Yaaaay!"
🎉
Great rundown. Thanks xx
Thx dude, your video helped me out big time
Really good video man , would have loved to see the xlr patchbay !
Thanks! Honestly, the XLR patchbay is kinda boring and basic. It's basically just a cable coupler that I use to get rear-panel connections within reach. It doesn't have the top/bottom row of jacks so it doesn't do any fancy implicit connections like the TRS bay does.
@@YHRS oh okok , thanks you've really helped me out !
Great explanation, as I'm relatively new to the hardware side of things in my home studio (only having Steinberg UR28M and Presonus Monitor station as I run 5 sets of monitors) I have often wondered how to hook up for example a higher end Audient ID44 audio controller to the likes of an SPL Frontliner which has multiple ins and outs for it's multiple functionalities. I would of thought that it would have just one in and out and then turn the compressor, eq, de-esser and tube saturation on and off, but their all separate. The Audient has ins and outs like a patch bay I think (2 of them) but does that mean I wouldn't need a patch bay?... I still haven't got used the concept, but will watch this a few times and hopefully have it sink in, thanks for the great content.
Can this be used with an Apollo twin so I can patch things to the trs input
yes, but not for MIC PRE's...TRS:) ( you could buy the XLR Patch Bay for those)
Great video!
I just bought this same patchbay and have never had multiple hard synths before recently. I'm hoping to use it to organize my 4 retro 19" rackmount synths so I can have a single set of 2 TRS cables going from the patchbay to my USB audio interface (an m-audio 192/14). I have 3 more modern non-rackmount synths to connect to the rest of the inputs on the USB interface itself.
Am I correct in saying that I would plug the L&R from each rack synth into the TOP inputs on the back (1&2, 3&4, etc), the cables going to the USB interface on the two BOTTOM outputs on the back of a separate channel (e.g. 9&10), and then use patch cables on the front to quickly patch between say the L&R on channels 1&2 (top) to the outputs of 9&10 (bottom)?
Apologies if this doesn't make sense, I'm a nube at this. I'm just looking for the quickest way to switch between the rack synths, which will be listened to through the speakers attached to the USB interface, and used as external synths within Ableton, and not much else other than that (e.g. I don't intend on buying any rack mounted compressors or FX ...not in the near future anyhow!). If possible I would also like to be able to 'stack' the rackmount synths though (i.e. so I can have sound coming from more than 1 rack synth simultaneously).
Great Explanation!!!
Thanks for this explanation!
Thanks! Helped a lot.
No wonder all the 1.5 ft. Monoprice TRS cables were sold out months ago.
Ok still a little confused. But with this. If I connect all my hardware from my audio rack into the back of my patch bay. If I want to reorder things like say I want a certain compressor first before a limited or something, I can do that from the front? Instead of having to turn my rack around to have a different signal chain?
I needed this! Thanks!
Hey thanks for the video, it was what I was looking for! By the way, how do you like the VLA II? Will it bring at least some of the "valve warmth" or is it more "transparent"? :D
The VLA II is definitely more on the subtle side of things. It can get pretty conspicuous sounding, but it excels at gentle compression for things like vocal and bass guitar. I'd say it's most similar to an opto compressor in its character. And the tubes are just in the output stage, which makes it kinda tough to drive them without clipping your interface's returns/inputs. I think it's a great comp though.
this vid is really friggin' helpful. thank you for this!! ps... I have that EXACT SAME CHAIR in my little home studio. yaaaay!!
Thanks! Ikea for the win! :)
@@YHRS haha!! indeed.
Have an intricate question regarding the patchbay. Wondering if you may be able to help?
Thx finally I undestand ;)
Hi Thanks for the explanation. How would i set up a Sidechain ? I have two types of Compressor one has an Insert type (dbx 266xs) Sidechain input and a (Furman LC-6 ) which has an IN & OUT Jack for each Sidechain. From your Video would the Insert one use Normal? Not got a clue about the other one. It states that the dbx one if a jack is inserted it breaks the connection from the INPUT jack to the 266xs detection circuit. So if it was Normal it would complete the circuit until i send a signal through the patchbay input? Does that sound about right? Any help would be appreciated :)
great stuff thanks.
Thanks for the great tutorial. I still have some questions. I am designing one for my personal studio. I have a unique situation. I am a guitar player and have alot of outboard gear. So I am trying to set up my 002 rack, and multiple guitar preamp (Ada mp1, ada mp2, etc.) Along with a lexicon mpx1 and alesis midiverb fx processors and some compressors/dynamics units (3630 comp, bbe 462, behringer EQ, ).
I am trying to set it up in a way that will allow me to use 1 of the guitar pres, and allow me to patch it to different config of the other gear depending on my need at that time.
So each guitar pre has a left and right output. I could route those to the inputs on the compressor. Then have another patch set up for the effects return& send and patch that to the mpx2 effects unit. Then route the output of the effects to input #7 &8 on the 002r and the guitar preamp back to inputs 1&2 on the 002r. (Allowing me to maintain an unaffected guitar channel in case I change my mind)
My question is in this design which w o uld be my best option? Thanks in advance
Hey, did you figure out a solution to your problem? My first thought was your mixing of instrument and line level, and balanced with unbalanced?
well done thank you sir
Hello i was wondering about hooking up a fmr compressor ? I understand they want unbalanced cable's, and these are balanced, how could we hook that up to work, thanks ! By the way great video a lot of video's do not show it like this thank you again for this !
Hi. What trs cables are you using?
Great Video thanks. Are there any patchbays with quarter inch and XLR inputs? how would I manage to plug in a few mics and my xlr out guitar amp to a patchbay? Simply use an XLR to two stereo 1/4" converter?
I don't know of any patchbays that have both XLR and TRS connectors on them. Assuming that your amp is outputting a line level signal (you don't want to send an amplified output anywhere but a speaker cabinet) then you could use an XLR-TRS cable to get the amp's line level signal into your patchbay. I do the same with my Torpedo when I want to get a line signal out of it.
Great video! Thanks!
Great information!!!!
How would you recommend setting up API lunch box DB25 to trs jack for patchbay.
I also run a White industries vintage to channel EQ
And a antelope Synergy core discreet 8.
Plus rack another 8 tracks clocked and a extra mastering unit.
All set within a custom desk 30 degree angles cut through so easy access to change the configuration.
I am running a neutral NYS-SPP-L1
It's settings are half normalled split and isolated.
Any help would be greatly appreciated.
Absolutely fantastic video by the way. 🙌
Sounds like a great setup!
I've looked at the NYS-SPP, and the way it's set up is definitely throwing me for a loop as well. The PDF documents on their website are all in German, so that's a no-go for me (I only speak English and C++ 😁).
Mainly what I can gather is that either way each module is turned, patching into the gray jack will set it to a "through" mode. Otherwise, In the standard position, it seems to be a half-normal setup. And in the turned position it's basically the reverse, where the input and output on the front both go to the input on the back. That's definitely confusing to me.
@@YHRS thanks do much for your reply.
I'm glad I'm not the only one confused by German Tech.
It got me confused so I was just going to run isolated .. not really what I wanted..
Tho if you can recommend anything I'm all ears .
Thanks again regards Chad 🙌
I label cables with tape and write the name of the device on each end of the cable.
Ha, I do that too! although I haven't yet found a tape that doesn't eventually let go and slide down the length of the cable after a couple of years. But those tape labels really helped get things set back up after moving studios a couple of times.
Was starting to feel like I was the only one.
@@YHRS Electrical tape worked well for me. You can find it in variety of colors.
I have everything hooked up to my scarlet 18i20. Focusrite control is pathed right. I get signal through all components. However, I get no signal in my daw (Yes it's set up to send and receive signal through designated outputs/inputs) I get no instrument signal, only static, and sometimes feedback if I ever so slightly raise the volume. I'm at a loss.
So in short words you end up using a ton of cables to loop one acoustic guitar signal out to a compressor and back in to the soundcard. I bought a patchbay not really knowing what to use it for and now I´m even more confused lol. I´m seriously starting to doubt I got any use for a patchbay in my home recording studio other than to save wear on the ports of my gear from constantly plugin cables in and out of it. At least since I mostly do "traditional" recording with preamps and mics.
I think that the main benefit of a patchbay is to bring all of your studio connections into one easy-to-reach spot. If you're plugging/unplugging a lot to make different connections, then a patchbay is really handy. But if you tend to "set and forget" most of your connections, then it's probably not necessary.
Useful.
11:28 you point to the half normal diagram yet say "were in normal mode".. was kinda confusing. but I herd you say "were putting this in normal mode" in the setup so I figured it was just a mistake.. thanks for the vid
You've definitely earned yourself a sub from me!
Thanks so much!
Interesting that the button to change the flow is on the back of a device designed to eliminate the need to access the back of your gear. Why not on the front?
Agreed! I'm a little puzzled by that as well. Of course I can't think of a time that I ever wanted to change the setting so it hasn't been an issue. But if I ever wanted to change it, it would be a giant pain to reach the button!
I guess that the mode is on the back, since if you can press it on the front, you might get some unexpected results if the mode is not pre-thought of before. You could easily end up with an unwanted loop or something. Having the normal is a no brainer, but allowing half normal will potentially make things work unexpectedly if the routing has not been thought through enough.
@@oysteinsoreide4323 I think this must be why the S-Patch Plus (which has N/HN/thru selectors on the front) uses almost-flush switches, so that they can't be knocked accidentally.
Hallelujah ! now I get it HAHAHAHAHA. Thanks to you
which cable go to the pc 💻
This was very useful, thanks. A quick question re the cabling and patching. I imagine if your compressor has XLR only you'd use an XLR to balanced cable going in and out of the back yes?
Also, your patch cables at the front, are they balanced/TRS?
Thanks so much!
Yes, that's how I route XLR stuff into my TRS patchbay: with XLR to TRS cables. It maintains the balanced connection through the patchbay. The only time I don't recommend going from XLR to TRS is any time the signal carries phantom power. That's a good setup to fry something!
Oh and yes, my patch cables are TRS as well. I'm using patch cables from GLS, and a few from Hosa as well.
@@YHRS Thanks, very helpful. Recently bought a couple of bits of outboard gear and realised that I'd get teh most out of it, especially using them as inserts, if I got a patchbay. Thanks to your response I'll order one today
@@YHRS Hi, you say that it's not good to use XLR to TRS cable if it carries phantom power, that's good to know, but what about just TRS cable carrying phantom power, is that ok? Thank you!
Im going my mic to the front of my xlr patch bay coming out the back of that into the output row of the trs patch bay. Then im going from my interface xlr mic input into the bottow row input of my trs patchay. Then i set up a outboard mic pre, output of that into top row input of that into bottom.. (once i patched it.. everything is clear and fine im getting clean signal etc..) i then added my distressor compressor, output of that into output of tra patchay and input of that into bottow row of trs patchbay. NOW AS SOON AS I PATCH/ SEND SIGNAL FROM MY MIC PRE TO THE compressor i get this insane white noise like when you would leave your tv on channel 3 ive tried everything with no luck.. help? :(
♥️💛💙💚💜❤️
Thank you.
Best explanation keeping starters in mind with practical info unlike most RUclips vids where mostly people showing off their gear. Thank you.
I also want to connect my preamps with phantom powered mics. Is that possible? Cheers
Thanks! I use an XLR patchbay for my preamps, and I pass phantom power through the patchbay. Just be careful doing that, since it's possible to accidentally send phantom power to a destination that does not like phantom power :)
@@YHRS Yeah that's why I asked. I heard that xlr to trs will not pass the phantom power though. So from xlr patch bay that has xlr inputs how do you connect the preamp? Does xlr patchbay acts as a barrier? If so how? Thanks for the earlier reply.
@@aLoudSi1ence I just use my XLR patchbay as a way to bring the connections from the back of my rack to the front. So I just treat them as extensions of the inputs/outputs on the back of my preamp(s).
My XLR patchbay is just a simple "inputs on the front, outputs on the back" device. It doesn't have the complexity of my TRS patchbay that has normal/half-normal operation. The XLR patchbay is just basically a cable coupler.
I run an XLR cable from my patchbay to the mic input of my preamp. So any phantom power or signal is passed to/from that input, just like it would be if I were to plug directly into it.
Same for the output. It's a TRS 1/4" cable from the preamp output to my patchbay. Then I can route that wherever I would normally route it, as if I were plugging directly into the back of the preamp.
Hopefully I made enough sense to describe the setup :)
@@YHRS thank you for explaining. I have better idea now.
Can you use patchbays as additional inputs on your interface/mixer?
Unfortunately, no. A 2x2 interface still only has 2 inputs and 2 outputs. A patchbay just helps make it easier to route inputs and outputs around your studio.
Great video. Are you still happy with the ART p48? Some budget patchbays tend to get wobbly sockets after some time and I'm in the market for something rigid. Would appreciate your input.
So far, so good with the P48. I haven't had any shorts, broken connections, crackles or intermittent signals yet. It's actually holding up really well, and the jacks all still feel great when plugging and unplugging. I'm actually pretty impressed by this patchbay!
@@YHRS Fantastic! Thank you.
If I only have stereo outputs 1 & 2 on my scarlett 2i4 (and not use the unbalanced RCA outputs), is it possible to still route to my outboard compressor and somehow route it back into my interface to hear it thru my monitors? Can that be done with a patchbay somehow?
I think you can do that. Since you have 4 outputs (2x balanced, 2x unbalanced) you can use 2 of those outputs to send to your monitors and the other 2 to send to outboard gear. Although unbalanced isn't ideal for either of those uses, it'll work anyways. I don't think that a patchbay is going to be much help beyond making it easier to reach the inputs/outputs on your gear.
Best of luck!
That was terrific, thank you. That got my head starting to be able to process the routing and "half normal" weirdness. Speaking of routing, that's a lot of cabling! Four cables for one compressor channel! So answer me this...you have your little acoustic track, right? You send it through your compressor for some gentle massaging, then it comes back into the DAW. What if you want to permanently apply that compressor to the track? That's easy to do with a plug in. How would you do that with hardware? Do you have to re-record that track as it plays through the compressor?
Thanks Greg! Yeah, the number of cables it takes to wire 4 compressors, 2 channel strips, a preamp, a wireless mic, an ADAT preamp, and the Torpedo is insane! It's really a terrifying mess behind that rack when it's all wired up.
As for "printing" outboard FX onto a track, you got it right. You have to render the individual track in real-time in order to get an audio track with the FX printed to it. Or just never touch the cables or settings on the outboard gear for the lifetime of the project :) At least you can do several tracks at the same time, depending on how many channels of outboard FX you have.
@@YHRS Ok, thanks. Next question....suppose you're limited on interface ins/outs. Say you only have one unused in/out channel available on the interface. Can you have several hardware effects sitting out there, permanently connected in the patchbay, and just send your one available send/return from the interface out to any of those hardware units via patchbay? It seems like you should be able to.
@@GL64 Oh, definitely! That'd be a great application for a patchbay. Just patch your interface inputs/outputs and all of the ins/outs of the effects units into into the patchbay, and connect them with patch cables on the front of the patchbay. That makes it easy to switch what your interface is connected to, without having to have access to the backs of everything.
@@GL64 If you setup your patch bay "normalised", meaning default inputs and outputs to and from your interface, then you only need to patch if you need to use a different ourboard gear.
Can a patchbay act as a mixer? E.G., say I have a 12 channel mixer but I need 16 channels. If I’m ok with not being able to adjust the volume, etc, would this work?
I'm not clear on what you're trying to do. In general, no, a patchbay cannot act as a mixer. Can you describe your goal a bit more, and maybe we can figure out what will accomplish that goal.
🤣 abby-normal. Love that movie
Hahaha, I was waiting for somebody to finally mention that :D That's definitely a classic!
First comment!!! Keep it up dude...
Thanks Minerman. Hope things are going well for you!
Homeboy had me at the "Abby Normal" reference....f'n right....Young Frankenstein is, imho, Brooks' best film.
it looks like you are using monoprice TRS cables. I have heard some good things and a few bad things. Do those have any issues? The few I have seen have really thick cable, which may just be thin wire and lots of plastic around the wire. Thoughts on these cables? Also, what kind of interface is that?
I've been a big fan of Monoprice's Premiere Series pro audio cables. They've got great connectors and I can't beat the price, especially when bought in larger quantities. I'd estimate that I've got over 50 of these cables behind my rack, and they've been great. I did have 1 fail on me, but I guess that's still a pretty good success rate :)
You're right, they are very thick. I like the feel of them, though. They're supple and flexible, and they don't retain weird kinks that some other inexpensive cables do. The thickness of the cables can complicate your cable management if you have a lot of them and you're trying to run them in tight spaces. Overall, I can recommend them for situations where they're plugged in and left alone.
Oh, and my interface is an RME FireFace UCX. It's really an amazing interface. If mine ever bites the dust, I'd replace it with another RME in a heartbeat (assuming that I can afford it 😁)
Your Home Recording Studio Thanks for the response. What’s their premier series. Do they have another series? I’m not super familiar with monoprices product lines. Judging by your message I’m assuming there is cheaper or better line that’s by mono price? Is that the case?
I needed a bunch of 2 foot power cables for a bunch of rack gear and I bought 20 of them from Mono price for just over a dollar apiece. That’s insane. Do they handle returns? Is the customer service good? For the one bad cable that you got, did you have any trouble getting it replaced?
Do the quality of the patch cables matter here?
Good question! I'm of the mindset that as long as they have good connectors and are properly shielded and wired, then any cable will do a good job. I use GLS patch cables, which I would call "medium" quality cables and connectors. I haven't had any issues with noise or interference, so they seem to be doing a good job!
Abi-Normal.... I got that reference 😏
how do you set through mode ?
As far as I can tell, the P48 can only do through mode if there are cables plugged into all 4 jacks of a single channel. That's what the block diagram on the top of the unit shows, at least.
Next do "Hooking up with a patchbay"
So say if I grab the new autaria fuse audio pre8 can I use four outboard gear with the patchbay. And do it matter on the audiointerface outside and in. I just sub too dooe vid strait to the point.
I actually hadn't heard of the Audio Fuse 8Pre before. That looks like a really cool interface!
Yes, it looks like the 8Pre has plenty of line inputs and outputs that would allow you to loop in external hardware. And it even has not one, but two (!!!) sets of ADAT in/out so you could get another 16 analog inputs and outputs if you pair it with a couple of ADAT preamps like the Behringer ADA8200. That'd be a whole lot of connectivity!
@@YHRS thanks family I. Trying to choose between this or the focusrite but might be getting this
You mean Abi normal. Young Frankenstein.
Best practices: label the devices on the front of the patchbay
Definitely! I spent a day with a label maker and marked all of my front panel inputs and outputs :D
Would you be able to help me set up my studio ?
He said to Jack into the front...now my patch bay is ruined. 😂. But Seriously, very good video.
😂😂😂😂
You could’ve just measured the plugs on all the cables to find the issue quicker ?
nice from india
Thanks and welcome!
LOL surprised nobody caught the AB-Normal
I hate the fact that the switches are on the BACK. For a synth person, it makes no sense to me, there are times where I want to split/duplicate the signal and other times not....
Ok so say u have an interface with just 4 out and 2ins... would adding a patch bay in effect add more ins and outs for post processing ???
Unfortunately, no. The interface is limited to however many inputs/outputs it has. The patchbay is mainly a way to bring those inputs/outputs to an easy-to-access location and make it easier to change connections without having to crawl around behind your desk.
@@YHRS after all these years I still come back to this video from time to time lol. Which patchbay u using nowadays ?