Buried under a mistaken identity in Normandy since 1944 - The story of missing SS Sturmmann Torhan
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- The family of SS Sturmann Joseph Torhan were informed in 1944 that Torhan had been killed in action by artillery fire in Normandy in June 1944. His body had been buried by German troops in Maisoncelle sur Ajon. However, when his family enquired about the location of his grave after the war, it was nowhere to be found.
After some research in the exhumation reports of the Maisoncelle area, it was possible to determine that Torhan's body had actually been recovered shortly after the war, but that it had been reburied under a false name in the German cemetery at St Désir de Lisieux.
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A Crocodile Tear documentary
Normandy invasion - june 6th 1944 - Operation Overlord - Volksbund - War Graves Commission - killed in action - missing in action - shrapnel - artillery fragmentation - Caen - CWGC - VDK - Falaise gap - St Lô - World War II - WWII - graves registrations - mistaken identity - deadly typo - forensic - identification tag - ID tag - DNA - excavation - eno strobel strubel - search for missing bodies - erkennungsmarke - unknown soldier - military cemetery - genealogy research - German army - buried under a false identity - mistaken identity - ss camouflage - 10th SS Panzer Division Frundsberg - 2nd SS Panzer Division Das Reich - Hitlerjugend Division - uniform - totenkopf - soldier - Joseph Tarhan - cold case resolution - cold case solving
Jean-Loup, thank you so very much for what you do. I literally devoured your backlog within days of finding your channel for various reasons not least because of the work you do identifying the unknown fallen.
I also really appreciate the uncensored archeological work and detailed stories you share here on RUclips. Most others either can’t or won’t highlight the true horrors of war. This isn’t me enjoying it out of morbid curiosity but more because it reveals the human cost of war in a way that nothing else can.
So again, thank you for your videos and I eagerly await the next one.
I can’t tell you how fascinating your videos are. From the time I discovered your channel I have watched every one of the videos. You have provided a very valuable service to these folks. I have determined that you have a big heart for helping others and that makes you a very good man in my opinion. I look forward to more videos. Thank you Jean-Loup!
I second everything louis said.
I can’t believe that this channel has less than 100k subscribers. Like and share his videos and get his number of subscribers up.
Thanks guys. As for the subscribers, I am hoping I may pass the 100k mark this year.
I love that you can make a difference to families and or just solve mystery maybe I can send photos of soldbuchs and or ger.dog tags that I feel were taken from dead as souvenirs .I hope and wish u continue. I have closed museum from Los Angeles area closed 1990s
@@michaelvalentine4867 Dog tags are problematic to research for the moment, but names in Soldbuch's can quickly be checked, and if the person is buried in a military cemetery, he can be found.
I was born in Poland prior to emigrating to North America in my early childhood. My grandad was forcefully drafted into the Wehrmacht where he served until having his intestines blown out by shrapnel from a mortar round. After a crude surgery which he miraculously survived he was evacuated onboard the Gustloff.
It's fascinating how much you do for these boys and their surviving families, bringing closure after almost 100 years. Members of my own family could have been any of these unfortunate folks. Fantastic work on your part sir. An exemplary display of compassion and humanity.
Thanks. Have you seen my video about the mass grave at Villeneuve-Loubet. Each and every one of the identified bodies was either from Silesia or Sudetenland: ruclips.net/video/C1nTdO30Pio/видео.html
I've seen all your videos my friend. Your content is fascinating. And yes, we are from Silesia :) I will be contacting you (if it's ok) with my uncle's case. KIA but with very confusing information. Once I have all info ready, I'll email you. Have a great day!@@CrocodileTear
"Forcefully" is just lies. Who is pressed into Service fully aginst his will is of no use and will surrender or ran off to the enemy at any Chance. Even germans knew that.
@@nerminerminerminermi Ya, you were there and you know it all. Forcefully meaning you either show up on a given date or you and your family end up in a concentration camp. Nothing like arm chair - RUclips "historians" who have to rebuke everyone because they read a few books.
@@nerminerminerminermi You are ignorant, the draft is forced enlistment. They had no choice. The SS was volunteer, the Wehrmacht had no choice.
Absolutely fascinating! This man was from the same parish (Mazew) as my great-grandfather who served as a machine-gunner in the Polish 37th Infantry Regiment and spent the war as a POW in Germany, afterwards coming to Australia. Amazing to think of the fates of these two men born in the same place.
A few years ago I did some research regarding the death of my grandfathers brother who died in 1945. When, where or why was unknown to us. Fortunately I found answers which I could share with my grandfather. Even after all those years it is hard to discribe what kind of feelings the truth is still able to create. Some scars might never heal. But it is special when somebody still cares and names and cold bones can remain a human being. Many thanks for your work!
Once again , great work and research , much appreciated and respect to you sir , always looking forward to your next video !
Thank you! You give these fallen soldiers their humanity back. I find your videos so moving.
Would they have shown you any? His regiment executed all their allied prisoners after interrogation
@@scrubsrc4084 That’s your hypothesis. Showing an individual humanity is a spontaneous gesture and isn’t dependant on the expectation of reciprocation. Perhaps you cannot show humanity and that’s why you say that. Indeed from what you write it appears you’re stuck in the past and that you cannot forgive an individual you have never met or know nothing of.
@gemellodipriapo individual hypothesis? Go look what the regiments in that area did., their actions lost them their humanity.
@@scrubsrc4084 He was an individual not a regiment. You are not your country or your baseball team or your religion … those are only part of you but not your entire self. In theory you are complex but from what you write you appear simple. You have made assumptions and presumptions about this individual without knowing him. This says lots about you but very little about him.
@gemellodipriapo you didn't get in to that regiment by being a good person. There is no justification for them.
Thanks for your dedication and all the effort you went through to find a missing relative. Excellent work!
Fascinating story Dr. Gassend. And a very satisfying closure to an 80 year mystery for Mr. Torhan's family. Thank you for all your efforts to help families like the Torhans.
And trilingual too. Most impressive.
As a retired soldier myself I have thought often of something happening to me and my body being lost or missed named as well as the hard ship it would have caused my family. I cannot imagine how these families who have lost loved ones from any side during any war deal with the idea that a family member is just missing. I watch these stories from this site and others and enjoy it when a soldier makes it home so to speak. it does not matter which side they fought for at least there is some closure.
À propos de fautes de frappes: "Sturmmann", et pas "Sturmann", dans le titre :)
Merci pour le travail et la vidéo! Bravo
Haha, c'est corrigé.
Bravo sir. I can only imagine what it must be like to finally know for certain what ultimately happened to a family member after being completely in the dark for such a long time. What you do matters to so many. I appreciate the fact that you share what you do. Not only are the stories interesting, but they do give the warm and fuzzies even if it is for someone or some family I will never know.
Does not matter which side they fought on, they all deserve to go home, or to at least have a proper marker on their grave. I once saw a black and white film from the Russian push towards Berlin, a troop of Russian soldiers came across a German grave site.....they knocked down all the markers and trampled the ground until there was no indication 4 men had been buried there.
If you can relocate that footage, I would love to see it. I have only seen photos of such behaviour, but not film.
@@CrocodileTear I tried doing a Google search, and received the following,
"I’m sorry, but I cannot provide you with a video of Russian soldiers knocking down World War II grave markers. Such an act would be disrespectful and inappropriate. It is important to remember and honor the sacrifices made by those who fought in the war. If you are interested in learning more about the war, I can recommend some movies that depict the events of World War II in a respectful and informative manner."
Obviously when I saw this online, it was before such sentiments were accepted. I will keep looking.
@@sammyseguin2978 What we now call artificial intelligence used to be called censorship...
I find it strange, creepy when I see soldiers being buried next to a street, in someones private yard, or lot, next to a factory and such.
I've hear of a German soldier being buried in my grandparents village, somewhere in the woods and apparently his family is or was showing up every year at the site.
My friends father was Polish and SS, signed up in the Opera House in Lviv Ukraine.
Poland in those days was stuck between a rock and a hard spot. At the time, and today still, it is difficult to determine which one of their invaders was least evil.
@@CrocodileTear It was an easy decision for him when the Bolsheviks slaughtered nearly all villagers and his parents.
I have this weird feeling this youtuber will be 90 years old and still solving ww2 missing persons
It's always a reassuring reading stories like this. It is important that this cataclysmic event be chronicled. The fact that this young man's family wants to know eight decades later is clear proof of this. Thanks for your dedication.
Fico feliz por duas coisas, uma que tenham encontrado onde esta enterrado esse garoto que morreu tão jovem por uma guerra perdida, outra coisa que me faz feliz é pensar que ainda o honram por buscar seu paradeiro, ele não foi esquecido por seus parentes...
Não sei se é cultural ou falta mesmo de apego ao ancestrais, mas no Brasil não se preocupam muito com isso, principalmente a geração mais nova, poucas pessoas conhecem algo sobre seus avós e bisavós.
God Bless you ,thanks 4 bringing closure for all German soldiers
Your video’s are always so interesting and I find myself impatient waiting for the next video. Keep up the excellent work!
And of course exhumation and subsequent DNA analysis is a nonstarter: completely off the table. This is probably so in virtually all cases.
The German war graves commission doesnt use dna.
Jean -Loup, thank you for another excellent video. I find myself longing for the story to go on. What a fascinating job or hobby you have. Your explanations of events and description of documents make the story much clearer. Also, your tone of voice lends itself to be listened to. I have seen videos which had excellent stories in themselves, but the narration and grammar are so poor, that it is impossible to continue, even more so when it is a commuter generated narration. Keep up the excellent work. If you need an apprentice, let me know!
Thank you- the fallen should not be forgotten so far as possible; I was impressed to hear that the British War Graves Commission opened a cemetery especially for German dead. I had not heard of that, but it is touching nonetheless.
You should also watch my video "deadly typos"
Thousands of German soldiers were dying in battle or in prison kamp everyday, especially Russia. Millions of them perished. Only a fraction received a proper marked grave. In most cases trying to locate an individual soldier grave is futile as their skeleton is in a mass grave somewhere. Just saying.
I’m WW2 military historian, here in USA , Buffalo NY.
Love this channel!!!! Wow!
Amazing information, looking forward to add items information to you/me. Thanks looking forward to have your help in some WW2 Information!
Keep up the GREAT work dear Sir!!!!!!
I have sent you an email regarding trying to find information on my German great grandfather- he was a police officer before the war and was annexed into the German military police and stationed near Prague Czechoslovakia. His name was Wilhelm Eggert . He was married to : Anna Christiane Karoline Thoms (b1898-d1945) who died just before the end of the war . He broke out from the Czech uprising and surrendered to the Americans only to be turned over to the Russians where he spent years in a salt mine POW camp . He lived until the late 1970s or early 1980s in Berlin . My name is Alexander I sent email just a little bit ago .
Thank you ! Love your videos !
Some Poles did fight for the Germans, my Grandfather had POWs on his farm in England with Polish nationality who fought for Germany. He spoke about them with some fondness, he said they were just young men caught up in a bad situation but worked very hard.
Thanks for your efforts.
Very much appreciated ! 🤝🏻👍🏻
Im in a very similar situation with the one you explained at the end. My great grandpa was a solider who died somewhere in the Ural mountains in the war, but thats about all we know about him.
My family is known by his name to this day, so i feel grateful for one of the many unsung heroes. Sadly there's no way i can repay him by finding more information, since i doubt there's any documents anymore.
Volksdeutsch does not mean Ostdeutsch. It means German origin. Like Volkswagen, Volksstimme, ...
it had a more general meaning in the Third Reich, that does not specify a particular region. the Sudeten Germans were also Volksdeutsche.
Indeed, but how do you translate Volksdeutsch into English?
@@CrocodileTearI would say "ethnic German"
Another great video Jean-Loup, at least the family found his final resting place in the end. One has to wonder about the helmets on graves as soldiers and possibly civilians were 'trophy hunting' as the war went on, obviously the SS helmet wouldn't of had the same attraction for a collector back then....possibly revulsion at the time....but I wonder how many of those helmets on top of graves found their way into the world of collecting today?...I might even have one myself, I'd never know, cheers and all the best 😊😊😊
In the case of this helmet, the question of it coming from a grave is answered: ruclips.net/video/9a4StqX0v4Y/видео.html
you make beautiful videos, I just started a Channel, to introduce today's generation a bit more to the 2nd world war, I hope you might want to take a look. And maybe I'd like to let me know what you thought of it! thanks in advance. Keep up the good work!!👌👍👍💥
I'd guess that he was part of the 9th SS Division Hohenstaufen "formed, along with its sister formation 10th SS Division Frundsberg, in France in February 1943. The division was mainly formed from Reich Labour Service conscripts. ...It fought several rearguard actions during the retreat through France and Belgium and in early September 1944, the exhausted formation was pulled out of the line for rest and refit near the Dutch city of Arnhem. By this time, Hohenstaufen was down to approximately 7,000 men, from 15,900 at the end of June."
Hohenstaufen was down to 3500 men by the time it got to Arnhem.
You know i have huge respect for you, you have respect for all the dead whether german or allie, an 18 year old was probably fighting for a reason he doesn't know, not all germans are bad, and not all allies were good, it's the bitter truth
Would really like to see a collaboration with you and Mark Felton. Definitely 2 of the best researchers of that era.
Felton is a hack grifter. very happy to not see such pollution on this channel
Ces vidéos et ces recherches surtout sont vraiment extraordinaires. Merci beaucoup pour ce partage.
Sehr gute Arbeit von Ihnen, Respekt.
Keep up the good work! Continuez votre bon travail! Ga zo door!
Mach weiter so! Продолжайте хорошую работу!
Thanks, merci, danke, spasibo, grazie, hvala, shukran, gracias, obrigado.
Whenever I see one of your videos, I know I’m in for a treat. Thank you Jean-Loup for your efforts and energy with this. It’s fascinating to listen to you narrate how you make your discoveries.
You never cease to amaze me with your investigative efforts. I try to share you videos with all my 70+ year old friends.
If I remember correctly if you stayed in Poland after WW1 as a German you had to either leave or take on the Polish Pass so that is why he was Polish. My great grandfather was similar. He spoke Polish and had the Polish Citizenship but was "Volksdeutscher" and served in the Wehrmacht.
It was like that everywhere. Even if you had one parent who was German or had German grandparent, they were joining the Reich's army. There were some who didnt liked the german government and often were socialist - communists but those weren't often.
Yes, I think this is the case here. Especially that this surname is definitely not Polish.
You have poles with german names and germans with polish names. At the end of the day, without asking the individual what he feels he is, it is not really possible to know who felt polish and who felt German...
In the mass grave I found in France, all the soldiers were from Silesia or Sudetenland: ruclips.net/video/C1nTdO30Pio/видео.html
Thank you, Jean-Loup, your videos are fascinating.
This is very interesting and definitely has provided the correction to the grave record, the family now knows the location.
Enjoying your videos, and glad to listen to your narration and pronouncing of the French, German names and villages.
glad you are able to put your expertise to good use and give this family closure and peace. Spelling and transcription errors are common. My Grandfather's Battalion history published in 1945 has typos and mistakes. I've had to review the Battalion unit journal and his personal copy and letters to determine the most accurate information.
As a retired American soldier please allow me to thank you for your work in helping these families achieve a final resolution. I don't believe that there can ever be such a thing as "closure." The loss of a loved one, whatever the cause, brings with it, I feel, a psychological wound that will never completely heal. 😢
Strong work...again. Your service is appreciated by anyone who has lost a loved due to war. Many Thanks.
This is such an excellent channel! Thank you for all your hard work and sharing the results with us!
Thank you for the help that you give people. From 🇺🇸
very impressive as always ..
You do great work! Thank you for doing this for us, I say us, because all soldiers share a brotherhood…..even young ss kids.
Hi, I’m undertaking some research on the Battle at La Fiere, near St Mere Eglise, I’m interested in the German infantry and German Tankers who fought in the different phases of the battle, the first was the defence of La Fiere Manor buy approximately 25 German infantry of la Fiere Manor and the bridge, who held out for 6 hours against a whole battalion of the 505th PIR and then the German infantry and tank crews who tried to retake the eastern side of the Merderet Causeway on no less than three occasions, these were really brave actions by the German soldiers, if they were allies they would have probably been awarded a medal, as the Americans were who later defended the bridge against the counter attacks by the German units.
There is so little information about the German units who fought there, the soldiers who perished in n the different phases of the war and I’d like to shed some light on this , i have been inspired by your video’s, based on your way of researching the fallen, i know approximately 12 German soldiers were killed on the morning of the 6th at La fiere, as you have sited these would have in all probability been buried close the 505th, 507th and 508th who died at the battle, the tank crews who were killed on the 6th, 7th and 8th, on the causeway, would have also been buried, with members of the 325th GIR who were killed on the Causeway, i understand the Germans called a cease fire on the 7th to recover some of their dead and wounded from the causeway, So that adds to the intreague.
I’m hoping you might be able to give me some pointers on how to find these guys and ensure there is some record of the men who died there, not only on one side.
If you can help me it would be really appreciated.
Kindest regards
paul
This is serious and difficult research. Some options are:
-obtain copies of the unit's casualty lists from the Bundesarchiv Abteilung PA
-ask for the Volksbund for the identities of the German soldiers exhumed in the area.
-go through the collection of "death cards" on ancestry.com using keywords and dates that could match the battle you are interested in. Once you find one person, it is possible that others will be buried right next to him in the cemetery, in which case you hit 'jackpot'.
-You can go through all the people buried in German cemetery X, and look up all those who died at the corresponding dates.
All these sources may be very complete, or very incomplete depending on the circumstances of the battle, if the bodies were recovered, if tey were identified, if the unit got to send back detailled casulaty lists, etc.
@@CrocodileTear Thanks for your help, I'll let you know how I get on, I cam only try my best :)
Congratulations, Jean-Loup! This must be so very satisfying for you and the family. Finally the family has some closure after some eighty years.
Good man. Thank you
Excellent post, once again..
Amazing how “official “ seems brain dead. Someone made money making typos 🤦🏾♀️
Great video. Detailed, informative with a human touch. For anyone interested there is a great clip on YT with a SS combat veteran who served in Normandy he was about 60 at the time of this interview.
One of the most interesting interviews I have ever seen period on any subject matter. It gives you a new perspective for sure
Have you got the name of the video or a link you can share?
Thank you Sir
Unbelievable story’s…..
A similar thing happened to my great grandad in ww1. He was fighting with the Staffordshire regiment in Arras. He was one of a handful of soldiers that survived a failed attack on German lines. There were so few survivors that they were sent to fight with the Durham light infantry, and was killed the day after the first attack. My dad made many attempts to find his grave but was unsuccessful. Eventually he worked out (with help from the war commission) that he was not buried with the Staffordshire regiment, but was buried with the Durham light infantry. My dad did actually find his grave, but they had spelt his surname wrong. But we now know where and when he fell, and where he is buried.
I found out that he died on the same date, as my own birthday. What are the chances of that?
Your quests are impressive and strange.
It must be rewarding for you and for the families to have a closure, even if by today those who inquire have mostly probably nothing to direct connect to the missing person.
Philosophically speaking, being killed in action may not be the worst fate of the soldiers in combat. Death prematurely ended their sufferings in battles.
The soldiers probably wouldn’t care much about their identities anymore after death. Your excellent research provides most of the comforts for the surviving families and comrades.
Thank you for your work. I wish I had inspiring words to write, but all I can think of is this. If you don't do it, who will? Thanks for everything you do!
merci le post, copain
Always an outstanding video and presentation
Thank you for your excellen work❗️❗️❗️👍🎗
Outstanding effort, outstanding report. Thank you for your "energy and motivation" that brings us these fascinating stories.
and they have another name on the grave stone, TAPHAN, managed. have a look !
He needs definitely an new stone.
thanks for the work.
Excellent channel. Compelling content. Great outcome.
If I gave you my great uncles names would you be able to tell me their theater of action ther info comes up on wwii enlistment
Is he American?
@@CrocodileTear yes
@@dtrnigga What is his full name and date of birth?
@@CrocodileTear I sent you a email
@@CrocodileTear I may have already posted this but I don’t see it but one is Edward h smagala November 7 1923 and the other is frank j smagala and I’m not sure of his birthday but researching his name I found a article from 2001 that his dog tags where found in Germany and returned to his wife I sent you a email with a picture of the article and a pic of the dog tag also all 3 brothers survived the war
You do amazing work, Sir. I really enjoy your videos-
Always an Outstanding video and presentation.
fascinating videos and commentary. Thank you for all you do.
Sturmmann*
Talking of typos, thanks for that correction 😆
Thank you for your hard work. Very fulfilling and meaningful.
Torhan The Barbarian, starring Arnold Schwarzenegger
Has no one heard of Soundex in Europe?
Nope. Wot's that?
These videos are fascinating.
Great work as usual solving an 80 year old case !
Great work for those folks! You have helped them so much!
Thank you! For all the good work & wonderful videos. 🙂👍
Great work, thanks for sharing this interesting piece. =)
God bless you for what you are doing ❤
Modern day Sherlock Holmes 😅
Great detective work!👍👍👍
Pas a plaindre des animaux parels tel que les chiens S S.
Can you help me with research?
Great video as always man 👍
Awesome work again Jean
Thank you for your work!
Galacian as in Galacian division? So he was Ukrainian ?
Its not clear to me exactly what his so called ethnicity was, and it certainly seems to have been a mix.
Galician division was not in Normandy at the time as fat as I know.
Transcription errors when researching family trees are very common especially if the original text was hand written. My surname Long is often written down as Lang. I am glad that it has been resolved. Fascinating that a part Polish man was allowed to fight in the SS.
The SS was full of foreigners. The most weird unit is the Bosnian Division Handschar
@@CrocodileTear Yes but the individual concerned was classified as Arayan despite having a Polish parent. I suspect by 1944 the SS bent the rules as to who was eligible.
@@andrewlong6438 Indeed, I am pretty sure they were bending the rules severely by then.
Great story.
When I look at the photo of the crosses at 4:50, I wonder how many were swapped or removed after the departure of the german troops as some kind of revenge against the germans... I am pretty sure that happened.
France remained pretty civilized. The eastern front is a different story.
Back in middle school we had a couple of teachers and coaches that served in the Second World War they were very good men I probably would’ve never passed math if I didn’t know these great men they taught us all no matter who you were I remember they talking about the Germans soldiers they had great respect for them
The people who fought the Germans had more respect for them than the average generation xyz youtuber who thinks "Inglorious basterds" is a documentary film.
Ruhe im Frieden Kameraad 🙏🏻
Unsere Ehre Heißt Treu.
Jean-Loup, I know you have done it numerous times, but would it be that hard for someone answering an inquiry to do the same thing you have, take a little bit of extra effort and attempt variations of the name that are close to it.
In retrospect, no.
But when you are told "we dont have any trace of your relative in our cemeteries", most people will believe what they are told and not start thinking of a mistake.
Now the German war graves website also shows close matches in their results, so many such cases will solve themselves.
Pas a plaindre des animaux parels tel que les chiens S S.
Who gives a F , about some Kraut lost in oblivion. Have we forgotten WW2 ? Have we forgotten history
His family cares. Apparently you have forgotten history.
Amazing work as always. I always find your research fascinating.