5 Tactic Mistakes to AVOID Every Time
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- Опубликовано: 2 окт 2024
- I have always felt wary making tactic videos for Football Manager. It is so nuanced and changes so much every year that being right is often proven impossible over time. I also did not come up on the tactic message boards for Football Manager, or in tactic discords, I came up through helping people here. To do that I eventually had to start making detailed tactical videos about FM as well, so I brought in reinforcements, RDF.
RDF Tactics is a fantastic tactical mind on Football Manager. I would recommend you all check out his videos on different tactical styles to help improve your gameplay. But I wasn’t asking him to come on for help, no, I wanted him to come on and help me tell you what NOT to do on FM this year. We are planning on another video where we give you some ‘musts’ for future tactics, but right now it’s about making sure you aren’t losing because of one silly thing you still have in your tactic. You should probably not be doing that silly thing.
Much Love,
FM Senpai
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Thank you, Z! Quality content creator but more importantly, a quality person. I hope everyone enjoyed the video 🤝
Big up my guy you doing your thing and deserve your flowers for it💯
The duo you didn't know you would need.
My brother sent me some of your vids and now I'm subscribed and see every one of them as soon as they come. Nice collab here, great work and thanks Vini for the recommendation xD
Yes mate the video is sick, the rise you’re having is great to see and fully deserved man
@RDF is that an Arka jersey you are wearing? I’m current managing them in my journeyman save. Interesting team and country to manage in.
Double recommendation for RDF. It is his analysis of IRL manager's tactics and showing how he replicates them that makes him stand out from the crowd. Plus he shows how he makes his own tactics. Lots of ideas that you can pinch from him to adjust your own tactics and lots of interesting tactics to try out for short side saves so you can see how they work.
Will definitely check him out, Tactical advice + voice smooth as hell is an instant click
He's outstanding generally but this one aspect he is the pinnacle. He not only replicates the real life tactics as faithfully as possible but makes them work using FMs engine.
Rdf is sick with the tactical analysis
"Don't go defensive" I hear, right as I go 2-0 up against Man City in the 90th minute playing a park-the-bus on defensive. And yes, I do watch zealand on my second monitor while I play FM
You would have had the same result, but safer, with cautious and some tweaks on player roles/positions.
The difference between defensive and cautious is stuff like passing directness and pressing intensity, stuff you should tweak individually rather than use the mentality slider for. Cautious, balanced and positive are the only settings that determine player mentality directly. Cautious moves the mentality one step towards defensive, and positive moves everyones mentality one step more attacking.
yep. played defensive loads and won games
@@iaindw1 there not saying you can’t win it’s just that you probably would have had those same results if you played on cautious and it would have been as boring haha
@@connorgrimshaw5457 they were basically saying don’t do it. It’s a bad tactic when it’s not. It can be used well to win games. Still very enjoyable to watch Mr Grimshaw.
Back in FM19 I had a save in Hungary at Puskas and I was able to beat most sides but due to years (in game) of European qualifications I couldn't dream of matching Ferencvaros and I'd always lose. One time just kind of to experiment I told the pressers I'd go out to attack etc. Then I played 3 CBs, 2 WBs, 2 DMs, 2 CMs (BWM, CMd), and a lonely AF. Somehow we managed to win 3-1 and despite the low line I had played with we had the majority (just) of possession, probably because the very defensive mentality meant all my players dared to do was a safe 5 yard pass and due to the really compact shape there was always an option for a safe pass. And I had never felt more proud of my boys.
I genuinely laughed with the "don't go defensive" one. Ever since I changed to defensive I went from challenging for play-offs to a double promotion. Some things work for some people so I'd almost argue that there's no right or wrong; Love the content Z!
Yup defensive countering tactic work great for me especially in lower league got Salford to championship with i
Counter=/=defensive
I would have thought, given how it works in real life that if you bring your back line back to the 18 yard box, you'd need to bring the line of engagement back to the halfway line.
Really good to see RDF getting the exposure he deserves. Been watching his videos for a while now and they're always high quality and informative.
Reffering to tackle harder dispute - I belive that individual instructions overwrite team instructions. This is what I take from my observations, and it would make sense. Like, you give your whole team instructions first, and then you go to certain individuals and ask them to do something that isn't included in team instructions because the player is good at it. But as said in the video, you can't really make definite statement unless someone from SI explains it
By overwrite do you mean the PI completely takes over?
I always believed them to be additive. For ex, If you have get stuck in TI and ease off as PI, I assumed it would make the player be between the PI and TI.
I treat the TI as a big slider and the PI as a smaller slider.
@@emzn1833 What u on about mate? Take a real life perspective. If a coach tells the team to counterattack upon possession loss, does that mean the centrebacks follow this instruction? Of course not... Furthermore for getting stuck in. If the coach tells the team to tackle harder, but your an attacker, who would have a higher injury chance than actually winning the ball, they are going to get specific instructions in place to exhibit their best performance (not tackle harder).
@@emzn1833 That would be my interpretation of how instructions work. PI completely overrules TI when enabled. In earlier versions, the tactic screen came with a great variety of sliders, for defensive line, width and indeed tackle hardness. With the transition into instructions, the tactic setup is much more binary, that is, either you tell your player to tackle harder or you don't. Which to me makes a lot of sense, as that's probably closer to how it works in real life too. Therefore, I also agree with Z and RDF that TI and PI do not double.
That's the point of individual instructions. Player instructions basically instruct the player to do a given thing more or less than the team is instructed to.
@@emzn1833 yes, PI are tier higher than TI. In this instance, if the team is instructed to stay on feet, but the player is instructed to tackle harder he will completely ignore TI and just tackle hard like he is supposed to do. Same thing for drybling etc.
Has RDF ever played in the Streamer Showdown? If he has not, I think it would be mighty interesting to see what would happen.
A few years ago I managed to avoid relegation in Bundesliga with a defensive team. I just got promoted and the league was way over my caliber. It happend to me, once, like 6 or 7 years ago. Don't lose hope, maybe.
I managed to win Serie B (Brazil, not Italy) with a team which was expected to end up very close to the relegation zone, while playing cautious, in FM20. Even managed to create trouble for some of the biggest Serie A clubs in the Paulistao. Never started a game with defensive, though, if I recall correctly.
@@jacopomangini3036 cautious is fine. It's not until Defensive they become counterproductive.
I find it matter very much on the mental and physical attributes if you can play a defensive style, and "play for set pieces". Typically in real life with a side like Burnley who are known for being quite a big, tough side. If you can have a team where everyone has good teamwork and concentration I can't see why you couldn't say look lads sit deep, stay on it for 90 and just lump it forward in game like you can IRL. It's just not the most useful tactical decision as a general basis, say starting blank at a new side it's probably worth just sitting balanced for the first game or two IMO to work out what makes the team tick but I'd definitely stick with cautious, balanced or positive to start personally as they still have some freedom.
Playing defensive mentality combined with a defensive formation has been useful in my experience over the years.
@@andresgirardo8481 yep agreed.
funnily enough, I agree with all your points but think I might have found an exception that works... I play 4-3-3 with a lower defensive line, narrow width, much lower line of engagement, get stuck in on and trigger press set to more often with tighter marking/prevent gk distribution/offside trap all off. We play on positive with counter-press/tiki-taka style build-up. I've been managing Valencia with this tactic and won La Liga 3 years in a row starting with the first season, conceding the least amount of goals in the league every season and we've reached the Champions League Semi-Finals
I managed to win a league with Dundee United in season three of FM20 whilst playing cautious, play for set pieces and a low defensive line. I had the tallest and heaviest team in the league on average and conceded 18 goals, it was amazing/terrible to watch.
Good job haha
What I like about FM is that there are no rules and you can really do what ever you want. I've had success with doing everything they said you shouldn't do. I've been played games on very defensive for the entire 90 minutes and very attacking. Once you understand that the mentality is just the level of risk your taking you can then work from there. For example let's say my normal tactic players on balanced and I have it on higher tempo, when I switch to Vattacking I better lower that tempo and passing directness and maybe select work ball into the box because on Vattacking the players make a lot of forward passes and just shoot whenever they see the goal post
Of course they can work. But as a general rule, they are spot on. I went invincible on a lower league team with lower defensive line, but I wouldn't advise it outside of a few specific cases. I don't think going defensive works in real life any more than FM, you just invite pressure and a decent team will unlock you eventually.
@@davidrichards613 yea I agree with them because it's just easier to create a tactic following what they said. They only thing I'd say I don't like is when you tell people something doesn't work even if it works 5% of the time, people tend to take that and carry it along for years. An example is when people talk about Italian football being defensive because of how it has been historically. If you talk to someone that doesn't watch Serie A they would echo that even if it's not the case right now
Yeah. I use pretty much half of what they say you should not do as the basis for most of my saves and it works fine.
I like to play a sort of possession football with modest team. So I often include "hold the shape" in my tactics for when I am over 2 goals ahead. Likewise I play with lower defensive line most of the time because my central defenders simply do not have the skill to do a pressing with consistency. And it works fine as I just admit I will have 52 to 65% of possession instead of over 65% and I organize my team accordingly for when I have the ball.
I played this way successfully as FC Nantes in FM20, with AS Saint-Etienne in FM21 and now with AS Roma in FM22.
Tactic building is a matter of knowing where you team stand, knowing where you want to go and knowing the effect of each instruction you select.
man like DarJ
I once came back to draw 2-2 from 2 down with 2 goals in injury time. Imagine my surprise when I saw that we'd scored those goals while set to 'very defensive'
Love this collab! It's so frustrating how everything intended to be defensive (mentality, defensive line, getting stuck in etc) doesn't really work. I tried so hard on FM19 to create a proper Diego Simeone 4-4-2 and it's basically impossible for all the reasons mentioned here - employing any kind of defensive tactics just invites far too much pressure.
Yeah this video defo highlights some shortfalls of the match engine.
I think I might just be allergic to seeing a bunch of red Condition hearts, but Hold Shape / Slower Distribution does affect intensity quite significantly. If you have a comfortable lead, keeping the defensive pressure the same but going to Hold Shape / Distribute slower is a great way to save energy and keep possession. It’s also a good option to tweak in game because it doesn’t affect tactical familiarity, just don’t set Hold Shape as default in the tactic
Same here. IMO, High / Red intensity tactics is too dangerous for lower league clubs. Bunch of injuries that will or going to happen( plus we don't have the money to get a high attribute physio). Happened to my Wrexham save and barely won. Had to depend on my Trialists and loans. Learned my lesson to LOWER the intensity of the tactics for lower-leagues cause most players down there are garbage in stamina and fitness.
Completely disagree about Lower defensive. It does work, you just have to know how to do it right. Your line of engagement has to also be lower.
It allows you to compress the middle of the middle of the pitch. You can just drop ur defensive like and leave ur like of engagement higher, huge gaps in the middle.
I play fm hundreds of hours and these kind of videos always help me improve at the game. Lovely stuff
Same here. Beginning to think I'm obsessed lol
Actually defensive tactic can work if you play the highest possible tempo and using counter attack.
My 2 favourite fm content creator talking about the thing i suck the most. This is a good day
I have literally left tackle harder on for more than a decade now
RDF is goated if you know you know .
What a collab! RDF is amazing, man!
Dude, ive tried one of RDF tactics in my "have fun" save. This dude really knows his tactics
Honestly never come across RDF's content before so I'm glad you did this collab. What a lovely guy he is. Subscribed!
I only play defensive mentality , and its the most spectacular and secure gameplay, I am thrilled about it!
I never ticked "get stuck in" or "stay on feet", but I did tell my Inverted Wingers, Box 2 Box, Mezzala and Advanced Forward (4-3-3) to "Tackle Harder" in individual roles, and combined with a fast press meant people like Dan James were averaging 3 tackles a game! All players I told to tackle harder did the occasional two-footed slide, but most of the time they stood on their feet and engaged the player to win the ball back.
Currently having a lot of success with RDF's Steven Gerrard tactic, great FM RUclipsr! 👍
The world truly needed this. Y’all my favourite Fm streamers no doubt. Thank you for this ❤️💯
Hold shape works best if you are winning and playing with a team that uses counter attacks to create chances. If you win the ball and start a counter attack BUT you lose immediately the ball then you need to defend to the opposition's attack. By holding the shape you can do it easier. Therefore, if you are wining the game and the minute is near 80 you definitely wanna hold the shape!
Only found your channel yesterday and must say that you are the best creator I’ve watched in ages! Great job, look forward to watching your content.
Individual instructions, team instructions, and roles add up. Someone either tested it or some developer expressed it. So "gets further forward" with "get further forward" adds up, and cancels with "stays back".
RDF was nice to have on. He is soft spoken and knowledgeable.
Jesus. Number 4 🤯🤯🤯🤯 I’d never thought that when building tactics. Like it seems to obvious, but it’s never crossed my mind when building a tactic that I need to know where I’m exposed!
It's not only just the crossing that I've noticed is broken over the years. It's the diagonal ball from midfield. Like any Vanarama shitbox mid can bang in that bending ball behind the fullbacks on the break. And that crosser is just a nightmare to deal with.
For low-block systems IRL they never really have to worry about that ball, because maybe 3-4 guys can actually hit it on-time, and on-side in the entire world. You see Dyche and Simione will actually tuck their fullbacks in to block shots because its a total non-issue. The entire point of the Low Block system is to invite pressure and soak it, but you can't even do that so its literally pointless.
Football Manager needs to have a rethink about Line of Engagement and Defensive Lines, and they need to gut the cross.
I think the problem with the match engine is that a lot of outcomes seems to be a battle of attributes between two players.
That's how you can score insane goals in lower league team. If the goalkeeper is having a bad day or is shitty enough or the striker is lucky/having a good day the outcome will still often look like top league stuff since the engine only sees that your striker shot rolls was soo much higher than the goalkeepers shot stopping rolls. It doesn't care that your striker only has 8 in Finishing and Technique. It only sees that the striker beat the goalkeeper by a lot and produces an outcome for that scenario.
That's my suspicion at least, and that would explain those insane diagonal balls you mentioned as well. On a similar note, my Mezzala on attack is contantly getting served insane swerved diagonal early crosses from inverted players on the opposite wing. They always come curling in between the fullback and centerback and he keeps scoring a shit ton of goals. This was in Vanarama North/South and Vanarama National. I've crusied through both leagues winning games like 6-0. It feels a bit cheap, especially since my team was expected to just maybe make the playoffs.
I'll use Hold Shape in my "game over" tactic. When I want to take the air out the ball, kill the clock, and spare player fitness for next game. But never in a regular system.
If you want to see where your players move, you can look at the pass map in the data hub for the average position.
Oddly, the "Very Attacking 4-2-3-1 Wide - Pyroclastic Flow" is a super successful tactic (I believe Omega Luke spoke about this tactic, possibly Zealand idk) and this uses both a standard defensive line and the "Get Stuck In" command. Although it does indeed gather quite a few yellow cards (therefore suspensions), it absolutely blows teams away. So I think maybe the don't use the "Get Stuck In" command, is a slightly misleading piece of advice. I rarely turn it off and so far I'm 1st in the Premier League (1st season) with Newcastle.
Yes, Newcastle, I know. lol
i used this tactic in my hertha berlin save to win back to back bundesliga titles, it was really good, but taking "get stuck in" helps so much. the only bing change i made was changing the rb and lb to Wing Backs on automatic, it just helps the defence be a lot more solid while still creatimg chances
@@joshuabond946 Oh so you're saying it'll be just as impactful if I remove the 'Get Stuck in' command and switch to Wing Backs instead of CWBs? I have been cautious about changing anything incase it just becomes less effective.
I really want to change the DLP to a CM on attack or a RPM but think it may be too leaky defensively.
@@LifesABeautifulMess yeah or for atleast for me is was just as impactful, ive struggled with fm 22 to get Lb/Rb to work consistently, wing back on automatic is the only way ive managed to get them to have consistently good games, they create chances still but they seem to be a lot more effective in defence as well. everry other roles its always one 7 or above rating followed by a 6.2 or something like that for me.
"Get Stuck in" never works for me it just results in players gettimg yellows every game and having 3-4 players suspended all at one time, or a red every other game, taking stuck in off for me has lowered that significantly, and as a result we also dont concede as many free kicks leading to goals.
Finnally for me the BBM and DLP are key, consistently averaging over 7 rating most of the time, the roles are just perfect for this tactic, even with get stuck in off the amount of turnovers ive seen where they still dive in and win the ball is amazing, it might help that grillitch and tousart are perfect players for the role however.
i also dont play on very attacking for obvious reasons
Get stuck is fantastic for aggressive pressing systems. Besides fouls can stop play most of the time, which is very helpful defensively. Generally free kicks arent a problem for me.
@@LifesABeautifulMess honestly adjusting a little to help with ur system can change a lot. I use a simple concept mark tighter tackle harder get stuck in plus super high engagement line, high def line and really high press. Along woth slightly shorter and much higher tempo. The rest i mix and match. Same for roles. I like a lopsided 4231 with a wing back on the left and invertedwingback on the right.
This was super helpful - I'm a relegation candidate in the Prem and we always lose to late goals because I think I'm shutting up shop by going Defensive (or very) + Lower line and actually the game engine just takes my hope and immediately shits all over it........like IMMEDIATELY after I score I'll always concede on the next highlight.
I don't agree with the advise to never use defensive/ very defensive. I used them efficiently in the last 5 minutes of a game I'm winning by one goal when the other team is pushing hard and only when team cohesion is high AND I have a good defense. You gotta tune the individual tactics coherently though, changing my wings to pressing wings and my fullbacks to more defensive roles has often done the trick
I have plenty of good experiences on Defensive and very defensive. It is very confirmation bias that it is bad. As you remember when it goes wrong and forget when it does not. And you can never test it going back to the same point and then not going defensive and it going wrong. Also according to FM tactics ballwinner and tackle harder does stack.
RDF is the tactics GOAT. For those of us playing a few hours on the weekend that don't have time to play in depth, RDF gives us the ability to pick a playing style off the shelf on a lazy Sunday and throw ourselves in knowing we can focus on squad management.
We know we all used the preset gegenpress because it sounded cool and had a good description when we started the game.
my first fm save, i used default 4-2-4 gegenpress with newcastle and i finished 2nd in the league and all i did was sign greenwood on loan. so yea its actually pretty good
I actually picked tiki-taka first because of the name. I didn't know anything about football back then
the collab we didn't know we needed
Another reason I have noticed you dont want to have get stuck in on against good teams is if one player goes for a tackle and misses, it can make life difficult because hes instantly out of the play and the team has to scramble to cover for him. It can sometimes expose a gap in your system that would never have been there had that player not gone lunging in.
This is so sick - if there's anyone who deserves more shine is RDF man is a FM GENIUS and shout out Zeeland for letting more of the community get to know this beautiful man
Quality creators. We appreciate you guys
I've actually had some success with lower defensive line, lower line of engagement and wide defensive line this year
Staying compact in defense, works in real football too
@@lorenzomartinez8543 yeah that was my thought process behind there, going wider to limit those crosses though
wont narrow-ball teams with IF/IWs cut through you quite easily though if defending wide? or do you switch it up for those types of teams. still feels impossible to low-block a Man City for example (not that it's much easier to go toe-to-toe with them either lol)
@@cannsawv2 I guess, depends on the formation, but unlikely considering how packed those areas should be too. The downside is really no counterattack and vulnerability to counterpressing., and forwards are real good at intercepting in Fm22
depending on FM lower defensive line can work for me but if I only play 2 midfielders I normally get torn to shreds by longshots and set pieces (the opposition got fouled in more dangerous areas +got more corners because my defenders were clearing the ball alot more behind goal) and if I play more midfielders and sacrifice a wide player then I feel like I normally get shrekt on the wings and if I don't play 2 forwards I feel like I don't really create any chances.
I went 4-4-2 with lower on both and wide defensive line in FM20 (huge huge mistake lol) and I conceded 21 goals in my first 10 games as a top 4 team in Serbia, 8 from long shots and 12 from set pieces. We did score a ton of goals but geez.
Something I did was I moved my CMs to DMs so that if they got a long shot off it was blocked a lot more and I started man marking the opposition full backs with my wingers (a personal favourite of mine) and the goals dried up a lot on both ends but I was still conceding too many long shots for my liking
My man wearing Arka Gdynia shirt. Love to see it!
Ku... ś...
Crazy..
Pretty much the only 2 fm channels I follow on at the same time...
Rdf has this strange way of calming me down..
He has a soothing voice lmao 🤣
No cap, RDF is the best tactics guy on FM. I can't say enough about the dude
RDF's voice is so soothing.
Defensive is the definitely very decent. Almost never concede a goal with it. I love parking the bus.
In FM 2020 I had a lot of success with defensive mentality for my brentford team and achieved promotion to the EPL with it. If I remember correctly I was using a 442 for it.
Hehe, the guy wears Arka Gdynia jersey. Nice pick:)
another one could be never "time waste" as a default instruction 😂
I'll be fair, can't disagree with most tips. But "never go on defensive" I don't like. For example - I play 4 -3 -3 possession tactic. When I manage to score before 75-80 minute and I feel the opposition has the quality to score and make it hard in the end - I switch to defensive, sometimes even with deep line of defence. Why? My team is built upon keeping the ball, I tell them to keep it more and I make it more easy for them to do so. The goal is to eat up time with possession, and the defensive makes them more careful. Still I leave 1 or 2 players to brake the offside if the opposition commit too much on pressing to close to my goal and it can lead to a 1v1 situation if I have a fast forward/winger.
Relatable dude, can switch to a 4141 with duper short passing and just leave an Advanced forward up top who can stretch their defence.
I rarely go defensive, yet I remember using it against Munich for my first time in Champions League quarter finals, and that allowed me to get a draw and almost pass them. They won 2-1 overall, I think, with 2 penalties. I also had Mamardashvili on fire, with 20 to 30 stops overall, so I was still lucky, but that can work.
Point 4. is exceptional. Can't wait to incorporate it
I find going ultra defensive rather good in the last 20 minutes, holding the ball far more and now allowing the oposition to counter attack!
We love you Z
I use Hold Shape when I use my low tempo tiki taka 4123 system. Works well. High possession, creative football with beautiful off-the-ball movement if you recruit well.
I personaly use defensive if im winning and it is the 85' or later to see the game out, most of the time it works, so i think it can be use only in specific time like the Stuck in option :)
Hold shape is great for short short passing, and slow tiki taka play out of defence build up. leave it on neither counter nor hold shape imo
I havehad a successful defensive tactic in FM21. I was managing ADO Den Haag in the Netherlands and it was the only way I could ever beat Ajax and PSV. It was basically a defensive 424 with full backs on attack, two pressing forwards on attack and two inside forwards on support. I messed with some team instructions, but I think the most important one was Be more expressive. I did end up most ofthe time with the majority of possession and managed to score in most games I used it, at the very least always create a few clear chances. So the defensive mindset can work.
I've been playing FM for a decade.
I have no serious real world soccer experience.
I'm not claiming to know what I'm doing... but whenever I look at tactics video's.... seems like the experts also don't know as their advice often contradicts what is working for me.
For example, I look at the referees history with handing out cards, if it's lower or same as usual, I'll try and kick the hell out of the other team. (It doesn't work on all teams and work better when they have tired players.) Then watch with a big smile as their star players are dragged of the field. I'll switch it off when I'm getting to many yellow cards, or I've gotten into a comfortable lead.
If the team I'm playing against is a strong competitor in the competition, I'll keep trying to get key players injured so they might have a hard time in upcoming matches against other teams.
It might not be nice or sportive in real live, but this is a game and I'm in it to win.
On defensive/very defensive.... when I feel I'm lucky to be in the lead at all, I'll go to cautious. Then at the 80 minute mark I'll go to defensive, crossing, shoot at the goal whenever you can, waste as much time, reduce the pace, let them go for set pieces if not already on and yell the "demand more" at my players. I might adjust my individual players to have more defensive roles. Only leaving my strikers out on attack to score that lucky shot during a counter attack. Past 85 minutes I might bring it back to very defensive and waste more time.
But yeah, I never play an entire match lower than cautious, that doesn't work.
I guess it all depends on the league you're in, the players you have, the shape you play in etc. You play style you like, you evolve your team towards that type of play. So a player that doesn't fit my style, won't be bought because he doesn't have the attributes I'm looking for, if I do buy him he'll disappoint as he won't perform as well as he should and won't be selected to play a lot and wind up being sold. Same player might do brilliantly in another team. As I injure and tire my players more than average, I'll have more players than average to replace them. There are many things that I do to fit my play style and that's true for everyone.
Now if my team keeps failing all the time, I might quit the game or I'll start to like my style of playing less, if I then tweak things a bit and my team starts winning matches, I'll wind up with a different style that I like. Now those tweaks, those can come from looking at what other people are doing and suggesting.
An absolute advice such as "never do this or that" is only applicable to the person making the claim (and others that play the exact same way) as it it true for their way of playing. That's why all these different tactics exist in the real world and in the game. There is not one way to do it. All the good advice in the world can only inspire you to try something different than what you have been doing so far. And that's what keeps the game interesting. There is no, just do this and that and you will win every game, solution. (and whenever there is, it's something that needs to fixed/nerfed)
rdf was cool thx for the introduction!
my two favourite fm youtubers linking up🔥
Is RDF wearing shirt from Polish club Arka Gdynia or am I seeing things o_O?
My current save is an Asian Journeyman career, currently at Barito Putra in Indonesia where we were predicted to come 12th (15th before signing a 5* CM from Persib who wanted out when I joined in summer) in the season preview and the board wanted to avoid relegation. My tactic uses both hold shape and lower defensive line (and LOE), both suggested not to use. We are currently 5th with 7 games remaining and 5 points of Continental qualification in 3rd leading a whole pack of teams down to 9th all still in with a good shot. But that's the beauty of football manager, as much as an attacking 4231 gegenpress I'd typically the meta, there are so many ways to win as long as you have the right personnel. I personally wanted to sit deep as the league I am in is quite poor I knew that the opposition would be prone to a few stray passes and by regrouping after losing the ball and staying deep its basically giving them enough time to fuck up. I also decided to hold shape as I am using a pretty defensive back four in a 433 and my DLP (at DM) was already a 5* player the new CM being 5* both in the league dream XI meant my players elsewhere weren't great but if I could let the two of them basically just slowly work it forward we could unlock defences. It's seemingly working out well. And I've pre-signed another 5* scouted CM so my team is just going to control the game in the middle and the rest just comes from there. Worth mentioning my possession is often on or above 60%. I don't think the same tactic would stand a chance in the PL except maybe the top 2 or 3 but it's nice that it can work despite being generally the avoided selections
But if you are playing a possession oriented game you would wanna hold the shape because the soon as you counter you could lose possession quickly
RDFtactics training>>>>>>
Regarding the defensive mentality comments, it can be used in very select circumstances, let's not forget. Playing as Shakhtar, I beat Man United 5-2 in the first leg of the Champions League quarter-final and I played almost the entire game at Old Trafford on defensive, with the idea of going as long as possible without conceding. Only lost 1-0, conceded in the 85th minute. We only had one shot on target in the whole game. Still got to the semis.
I'd say it's just about recognising the exceptional circumstances where it can be a good idea. for example, I played Man City in the group stages, won 2-0 with a cautious mentality, lost 1-0 playing on defensive, trying to earn a draw away from home to qualify for the knockouts. That was a bad idea, meant I had to beat Barcelona in the final game and I was lucky to do so. Using it over the course of a league season is generally gonna be bad, using it to conserve a strong lead in a two-legged knockout tie, very useful.
The issue I have noticed is that it depends heavily on adaptable players. I have found that when my team is noted as not very adaptable that big mentality changes like that just lead to awful games. Whereas my more adaptable teams can smoothly switch and do like you are saying/
@@TinyEle do you mean being noted as adaptable in the 'Assistant Report' screen, with all the strengths and weaknesses of the team? because if so, adaptability isn't noted for me in the pros or cons, so I can't verify that there, but there's also going to be a number of different things that determine how effective it can be anyway, which is one of the great things about the game. the concentration attribute is gonna be key of course if you're gonna go the full 90 on defensive. teamwork and player partnerships on the pitch etc.
I think I've just built a good enough team now to be able to get away with it. Just beat Bayern Munich 3-1 at home in the semis, but I know my team is probably not quite good enough to go and attack Bayern in Germany just yet. but my two central defenders are world class, so I might even go cautious/defensive again. All about having a good feel for what your team is capable of, I think.
I never turn off get stuck in and tackle harder on position instructions. However mark tighter team instructions i sometimes turn off against teams like liverpool or city it seems to help
You must win most red and yellow every season! I used to use it more and just individually change players on yellow to stay on feet but I found it better to pick specific players to tackle harder rather than see my defenders sell themselves down the river and let in attackers.
@@davidrichards613 yellows really frequent red cards not many
13:26 go all the way back to fm11, ive scored more goals with defensive then i did with attacking so it could be very effective. that was with barcelona however
A question for the second point, if “get stuck in” is on what happens if you tell specific players to “ease off tackles”, will it make them just go to normal or make them more passive like when you tell them to “ease off tackles” without the “get stuck in” on?
I believe that the player instruction will override the team one but I'm not 100 percent. I've always simply tried to avoid contradictions
I'm on the former. I treat the TI as base and the PI as tweaks. I treat both as slider with the TI moving the slider more than the PI.
@@emzn1833 I think the idea of base and tweaks is spot on, it's the next part I'm unsure of so I'll never have a team instruction of get stuck in or stand up, I'll look at their players individually for that. But then if I notice that they're all crap at crossing I'll force them outside as a team or I'll push the line up if they aren't fast as a team. Guess that's the beauty of it that no one person does it exactly the same.
RDF! Yes Zealand this guy is the guyyyyyyy (apart from supporting arsenal)
I always play with Stay on Feet TI, but instruct my forwards and CBs to tackle harder ( not wing-fullbacks , MCs or DMCs) and in Opposition Instructions I assign all opponents except CBs to be tackled harder. Last time i had a player sent-off...5 years ago, in FM17. Right balance , i guess. 15 times checked across all nations and leagues; from Luxembourg to Premier League.
7:25 that's aakmost exactly my Bielsa-ball tactic I run with leeds
In FM16 (if I remember correctly) going "very defensive" after receiving a red card was almost guaranteed to net you a goal. Flawless tactic. Saved many a game for me
bruh saw the thumbnail and i was like "jme plays fm??"
😂😂😂😂😂 I’m in tears!! 😂😂😭😭
What I see a lot of people do is have contradictory Team and Individual Player mentalities, especially within a match where they start switching up the team mentality from a change in the scoreline but don't alter anyone's individual mentality to align.
That RDF's shirt from polish team Arka Gdynia was quite unexpected 😆
Haha - my Mrs is from Poland (Gdnask) but her dad is from Gdynia. I've been to Poland a few times, I went to Arka stadium and was treated well so I felt a bond and bought a shirt haha but then they got relegated :(
@@RDFTactics That is really nice! Greetings from Gdańsk mate! :)
@ u support lechia gdanks?
@@someonesburneraccount5062 not really, watching Polish Ekstraklasa hurts 😆
Hey Zeeland, can you make a vid on how to start a new game mid season with real fixture results. If I wanted to be able to start the game with latest updated database taking over the club today for example.
It feels like a really fun way to start a game when we are also actually in the winter transfer window irl.
Haha, I have so much success in FM with lower defensiver lines...
Loved this guy!
@RDFTactics Love your Arka kit! Greetings from Gdynia!!
RDF is like the snoop dog of FM, I know that sounds weird lol\god video boys !
Much awaited linkup 🔥🔥
I've actually got a tactic working with lower line of engagement and narrow defensive width, I'm top of EFL 1 by quite a margin.
It works because I've invested in good jumping reach/heading defenders that can cope with the crosses coming in.
Definitely viable if you have the right players.
I also have standard pressure on, so I'm kind of inviting a bit of pressure and trusting my defenders. This keeps my team with more energy later in the match when I often score.
Same here with my Barnet save. I just won the conference with a lower defensive line because my centre backs have zero pace but fantastic jumping. I've got some solid midfielders that full the gaps as well. I rarely have the momentum but solid defence and a quick front line mean I'm winning 4-0 with 40% possession.
I'm not trying it again next season though!
Yes. To play with low line of engagement your defenders need good concentration as well. Very good
What you are doing is called "result-based analysis" and is really bad for discussions.
RDF and Z together, OMG OMG OMG
You could add NEVER go 'very attacking'. Losing 2-0 with 5 minutes left? Go very attacking and you'll lose 4-0, and NEVER will you ever rescue a game.
Me at 75min leading 1-0:
Defensive
Much lower defensive line
Hold shape
Regroup
- 3/5 checked
My assman always recommends very defensive when we go down to 10 men. I instead go defensive. Havent conceded much in those few games but should i not do it from next time?
I have personally escaped a relegation battle where I joined a shit, poor team mid season using a lower defensive line, could probably do so again, and often use it with my attacking teams to see out games. It takes a LONG time to figure it out, but once you do, it works very well.
using a lower defensive line works, but not if you don't set up your whole team for it and use it with the correct formation. If you use it with a formation made for attacking and thus pressing, like a 433 with wing forwards or a 4231 it will create a lot of gaps everywhere, as the players are too spread out. players further spread out and having more players further up the pitch is great for pressing and passing the ball forward, but it's horrendous for sitting back
to sit back, you want to use a compact formation where say you have no more than 2 players past central midfield like a 442, 4411 or a 4141 unless you use a 343/523. you want it to force them wide and to cross the ball because it's harder to score from crosses than if you just let them take shots or make through balls close to the edge of your box, even if you think crossing is overpowered. I think 3atb is best for sitting back, especially with poor teams as the extra defender makes it hard to complete crosses. 4atb is harder to defend with but better for scoring with, so it's better for a midtable team or a good team when you need to protect the current scoerline, especially as a good team is likely to use a 4atb formation as its main tactic
When playing a whole match with a lower defensive line I will normally start off cautious before moving to defensive and then very defensive towards the end of the game, so they definately have their uses. Again, if you're playing an attacking tactic, no shit it wont work properly if your team drops off in pressing intensity whilst still playing a relatively high line.
imo the isntruction 'counter press' makes you play with a higher line and tends to be crucial to any pressing and attacking tactic (pressing and attacking comes as a pair of course). This means that leaving this instruction on whilst playing with defensive mentalities is contradictory so no wonder going defensive or playing with a lower defensive line will not work for you (took me ages to figure this out btw, the moment counter pressing on playing defensively will simply not work)
As for not getting countered I think you guys are on the right page but are over complicating it; easiest way to not get counter attacked is to have a certain amount of players not go forwards. If you're a really bad team you're looking at around 5, decent to good team then 4, and elite teams 3. The point is if you have at least 4 players never getting forward, it's very hard to get counter attacked, especially if they are the players in the right positions, it's only an issue when you have 3, and you should only ever have only 3 back when your team is full of elite players because otherwise your attackers will miss all of their chances, not keep possesion enough and you'll have a lot of painful 1-0 losses despite having much high xGs than your opponent(we've all been there). Sounds obvious, but lets go deeper
let's go back to our shit team playing a lower defensive line (ldl) that barely has any players in the attacking midfield and striker positions because it needs to stay compact. Because they are so rubbish, they need to focus on conceding as little as possible by having as many player behind the ball. To keep as many players behind the ball they need to have more players than your average team who are never going to go forward, whilst still being a threat on the counter. We will say this is a prime example of a team that needs to have 5 players who are never going forwards (gk not included it that's not obvious)
Let's say these teams are playing 3/5atb: it's a no brainer that none of the centrebacks will go forward so that's 3 already. in my 352 none of my 3 men in the middle will go forwards, so no we actually have 6 players sitting back; how on earth can you counter a team that has that many sitting back? also the two cms have a fair bit more attacking freedom than normal cms as so many players are behind them, but at the same time I never give them instructions to go forwards or have players with those kinds of traits and they are always in support
to add to that, I've closed down the gap between my defence and midfield by having a dm inbetween the cbs and cms; I NEVER leave the dm position empty. This means I'll NEVER play 2 man midfield with 2 cms, it will always be with 2 dms, and as you can imagine, in a 3 man midfield I will always have a dm, and never a flat 3. the area just outside the box is where most goals are created if not scored, so it is more important for your central midfielders to protect your cbs than it is to assist your forwards. *I might be wrong in case of one formation, but I highly doubt it
going back to stopping counters, a cm is obviously higher up the pitch than a dm, and therefor will be more likley to be caught out of position than a dm. You can set a cm to a defensive role, but if you do that but then use the same role in the dm position (most of the cm roles are available in the dm position or have a direct equivalent) you'll notice the gap between the midfield and a defence is smaller giving them more protection, rather than have this really awkward gap and still even maybe be a bit too high up the pitch to totally nullify counters.
that being said I only use the defensive role on holding midfielders if they are in a 3. if it's a pair they will both be on dm (s) with the instructions hold position in most scenarios. This means they get high up enough the pitch to support the attack but they are nearly never caught out of position or leaving the middle of the pitch weak. protecting the middle of the pitch is the most important thing defensively whatever formation you play or what defensive philosophy you have.
going back to formations, with a 523/343 you now have 5 always staying back (3cbs and 2dms). in a 442/4411/4231 4 are always staying back (cb and dms). in a 4141/433 3 stay back, but in a 433 I tend to have a cm on ap(a), both are on cm (s) in the 4141 though.
for years now I only really have counter attack issues with the 433, which is to be expected due to the nature of the tactic as I only use it for high line, high press, high possession. with the 4231 it's attacking, but it has a standard line, so very few bastard balls over the top. with my 4231 attacking tactic, counter attacks are barely an issue and I normally concede one of the fewest in the league. same with the 433 really but yh as I said, on a bad day where no one wants to score the opposition has more of a chance of scoring, but so long as you have elite finishers and more to the point wingers, it's better for breaking down defences and the high possession is a defence in and of itself, and it's easier to throw a central midfielder forward. well it is for me anyway...
lastly, I never make wingbacks stay back because as I just allueded too, I find making central midfielders go forwards awkward. it tends to congest the middle too as there's already so many players there so they can't get enough space, and the more the go forwards the weaker I am in the middle and more open to counter attacks. also because the wingbacks play wide should we get counter attacked there's no one to screen the defence. It's way easier for a dm, even if they are slow, irl or on the game, to go wide and close down a counter attacking player in a wide position from the centre, than it is to close down a counter attack in the middle with a flat back line, especially without some going drastically going out of position; if your cb comes out, now there's a hole in the defence, and if the closest wingback tucks in, there's too much space on the flank and your back line is moving around too much.
with 2 dms and 2 cbs staying back if one dm goes out wide his partner is still covering the centre and his two cbs can stay in line moving minimally.
anyway that's been my ridiculously long comment, hope it helps at least one person!
You gave the shout out already but genuinely shout out to your editor. He did a GREAT job with this video. 👍🏾
Thanks dude
I confirm the last one
Every time I was against a big team, going defensive RUINED ME.
went 6-0, 7-0 then 5-1
Immedietly as soon as I begin using attacking, even if i was not in the advantage, they scored less, and I came closer to scoring more.
3-0, 2-0, 4-2
have to disagree here. get stuck in is on all the time. sometimes even a combination of get stuck in and tackle hard opposition instruction on every player.
At lower level “stay on feet” is basically a hack to get no red cards
@@cian9350 i play exclusively lower leagues and find that the added agression when tackling outweighs getting 3-5 red cards a season and some yellow card suspensions.
RDF has Arka Gdynia t-shirt. That suprised me.
Now do a rebuild using all of these tactics
It’s inevitable, my teams always turn into a very high pressing 4231 gegenpress with loads of brazilian wonderkids
Love your shirt Z ❤️
Now I´m making a tactic that is defensive, lower defensive line, get stuck in, hold shape and win the CL