I think one thing that needs to be clarified is that when you are applying your 1.5x or 2x crop factor, you are applying that to get similar field of view. The focal length is the focal length is the focal length. A 50mm 1.4 lens is going to perform exactly the same, AT THE SAME DISTANCE TO SUBJECT, in terms of light gathering capability, background blur, and distortion, no matter the camera. The only thing that is affected is your field of view, or crop. So to get an equivalent field of view to a 50mm Full Frame camera (AT THE SAME DISTANCE TO SUBJECT), you would use a 33mm on a crop sensor. A 1.4f stop is going to gather the same amount of light no matter the focal length, so a 50mm f1.4 is going to gather the same amount of light as a 33mm 1.4, the only difference between these two setups now is the depth of field. You will get the equivalent depth of field on a 33mm 1.4 on a crop sensor (AT THE SAME DISTANCE TO SUBJECT) as a 50mm 2.1f lens. While gathering more light than f2.1. I think people get confused when you apply the 1.5 or 2x to the f stop. You are only doing that calculation to get the equivalent depth of field or bokeh. Your camera sensor crop DOES NOT effect light gathering capabilities. Now, actual pixel size on the senor does affect noise performance, so, ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, a 26mp Full Frame Camera will have better noise performance than a 26mp Crop sensor camera. But rarely is all else actually equal. Newer cameras generally have better noise performance, the brand of camera makes a difference, the sensor type makes a difference (BSI or Stacked sensors perform better). Megapixel count even affects noise performance.
Thanks for adding all this, it's very informative! 🙂 As I always say it's very very important to not just watch one video and take it as gospel, research as much as possible. I do however think a lot of your points are very advanced for the target audience for this video. I mean I strugled to keep this video at an already quite lengthy 22 minutes 😂 But for the pruposes of this video I'd say field of view and focal length can be deemed one and the same. At the end of the day it's just about what you see and what can fit in your frame when you're starting out and I think it's more important to know why you can't fit what you can fit in the frame from the same lens when on the various systems. Plus, if I had dived into the difference between field of view, focal length, compression, ISO performance, sensor technology advancement etc, then this video would have an even lower retention rate than it perhaps already has 😂 Hence the overused word 'typically' "Typically an APSC Sensor is..." Like I said, this video would be 3 days long! 😂 I was just hoping this may help the absolute beginner answer a few queries they may have in as simple a way as possible. Because I struggle myself from intenseive information overload and tried to make this in a way that I would have personally have liked to have been told when I first started. Then it can spark their desire to research more into everything afterwards. You can't fit the entire knowledge of cameras in the one video 😂
@@TheCreatorsBlock Yeah, I did give a lot of qualifications to what I said, getting real technical. I just think, the main point that is confusing to people is being told to apply the 1.5x to both the focal length AND the f/stop. Then people start thinking that crop sensor lenses let in less light, and are confused later on and have to unlearn something they thought they knew.
You're right, it's the same amount of light at each place on a sensor regardless of its size. But total light across the whole sensor increases as one jumps up in sensor size. Four MFT cameras collect 4x total light compared to one MFT camera (or one FF camera). And crop factor can be ignored if your cameras all have the same sensor size 😊
I have made the switch recently, coming from years of both analog and DSLR photography. My budget was around 1000€ for a complete system and I landed on M4/3 relatively quickly. I already shot APS-C on my digital cameras (started with a 1000D when it came out and I was like ten years old, then went to a Sony a65 and then to a Nikon D3300) and thus wasn't worried about any loss of sensor size (especially since I cropped to 4:3 regularly anyways). I whittled it down to either an Olympus E-M1 II, or a Lumix G9. The Olympus ultimatly wonnout for me, because phase detection autofocus, a preference for Olympus lenses and just the overall aesthetics and ergonomics were important to me. I also got the loved 12-40mm 1:2.8 from Olympus and couldn't be happier. I rounded things out by adding an Olympus 45mm 1:1.8 for portraits and just recently got the 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 from Olympus to round out my kit for those few occasions I need more reach. Overall I couldn't be happier with my chioce and adore the camera, the lenses and the workflow they provide. I like printing my inages and up to A2 size they look flawless, with A1 and even bigger being usable, at the appropriate viewing distances.
That's awesome! Looks like you made a great choice for what you wanted! Like I said M43s do intrigue me quite a bit, and would love to have the g9ii but i can't afford to be in more than one system at the minute! Enjoy! 🙂
Thanks a lot for this video. You are making a very good point that it is all bout the lenses. That said, I am sorry, but I don't get your points about depth of field and low light performance. On crop sensors, if you are applying the crop factor to both the focal lens and the aperture, you should have same depth of field and same low light performances as the equivalent full frame. why are you saying the opposite at 4:09, 8:06, and 10:18? The last time I checked, an APS-C camera with a 16mm f-1.2 APS-C lens delivers exactly the same images as a full frame camera with a 24mm f1.8. Sure, lens selection is marginally better with FF, offering a 24mm f1.4, but the vast majority of photographers won't spend that kind of money on a 24mm anyway. What am I missing?
Thank you, glad you found it useful! Sorry for any confusion, but I think you may have misunderstood slightly. I’m not saying you can’t achieve the same look as a full frame, just not from the same lens. You need to opt for faster and wider lenses to achieve the same look from a full frame with a narrower focal length and aperture lens. Yes you are correct the 16mm f1.2 on an APSC delivers the ‘same’ performance as a 24mm f1.8 would on a full frame. But you have had to buy a specially designed lens to achieve that same result from a FF with a 24mm f1.8. And that was a point i made somewhere in the video, you need a lens that has a wider aperture and focal length achieve the same look on a FF to compensate for that crop factor. And that specific 16mm f1.2 lens you mention wouldn’t be much use if you were to upgrade to full frame later. But if you don’t plan to upgrade then yes that’s a great lens choice to get! ☺️ However, If the 24mm f1.8 was put on both cameras then the APSC would have an aperture value equivalent to f2.7 not f1.8. So the FF would perform better using the same lenses. You do make a good point about wider lenses though for APSC, they are more affordable. Which is why I go on to say it’s always a compromise between Image Quality and Portability & Price. Perhaps I could have mentioned that in more detail. But when you come to the more general lens options such as your f2.8 and f4 zooms which is what most beginners will aim for, that’s when the f2.8 becomes an f4 and an f4 becomes an f6.0. Meaning that APSC low light performance isn’t as good as Full Frames because you can’t take full advantage of the focal lengths and aperture values that are actually listed on the lenses. Yes f1.4 and f1.2 lenses can be very expensive on full frame, but you at least have the choice to go wider than an equivalent f1.8 if you wanted. Does that make sense? 🤣 I hope that helps 😊
@@TheCreatorsBlock thanks for taking the time to reply and provide some much needed clarifications. Yes, it somewhat makes sense, except for the suggestion that it's a reasonable idea to purchase full frame lenses to use on APS-C cameras. More than half of the light is wasted, it adds a significant cost in $, it's significantly heavier, and for many normal focal lengths there wouldn't even be any full frame lens that would give image quality as good as the APS-C options. For instance, try to match the 16mm f1.2 APS-C lens using a full frame lens. The best 16mm full frame lens would be f1.8, but it costs an additional $250 and weighs almost 200g more. Considering that the cheaper and lighter APS-C lens will be more than 2 stops brighter, will have noticeably shallower depth of field, and will have less distorsion, I can't see why anyone would decide to purchase the FF lens instead of the APS-C lens. What am I missing?
@@comeraczy2483 Ha, this has definitely opened up a can of worms in the comments. 😂 Firstly, I do not know everything about every camera or lens/camera combo that's out there (Which is why I say you should research this yourself). I'm just trying my absolute best (I'm not perfect! I am STILL LEARNING too 😂) to hopefully help the absolute beginner answer a few unanswered questions they may have to mke a more informed decision, because like I said, it wasn't clear to me at first, so I wish I knew some of this before I started, it would have sped up my progress for sure 😂 You do make a great point about the 16mm f1.2 APSC lens. I actually did own this lens when I had the a6500 a while back because I was chasing that Full Frame look and struggled with APSC personally, oh no sorry I think it was actually a 16mm f1.4, not usre, but it was a similar lens. BUT my aspiration, was always to upgrade to full frame in the future. So for me (which I mention as just my personal opinion in the video) buying APSC lenses was not the right financial or progressive route for me. Instead I wanted full frame lenses so that when I do upgrade to full frame I have (hopefully) a selection of lenses that I can swap between both cameras and have 2 field of view options with each lens. However, I still do not fully see the benefit to buying APSC lenses UNLESS you 100% plan to stay in that system, then it most certainly does because they are cheaper and lighter than the full frame alternatives. BUT, you do only mention the one lens, the 16mm f1.2. There really aren't many other (if any) lenses that (to my knowledge anyway) that truly stick to having lower aperture values to help compensate from the reduction in low light performance from an APSC sensor (by performance I mean ISO performance). APSC lenses typically have very similar aperture values and focal lengths to their full frame alternatives. For example the classic 24-105 f4 full frame, the APSC alternative is 18-105mm f4 I believe. A great option, HOWEVER, it's still f4, so there's no aditional low light performance advantage, just it's now a bit wider at 18mm. So if you upgrade to full frame, then what? You need to eitehr sell it and buy the 24-105 f4, or you keep it and keep it on your APSC camera but now you need a second lens for your full frame. Do you know what I mean? I'm not by any way saying that APSC lenses are useless or not worth buying, they have their place and it's all personal preference and how you see your photography journey progressing. I would just personally think it would be much more appealing if they were designed more like M43s lenses that are fully designed in a way to make them truly much lighter and with wider aperture values to help compensate for that reduced low light performance. So that 18-105 f4 would be fantastic if it were an f2.8 instead (There may even be an option, I'm not so sure). The key is to research as much as possible and look at what will best suit your needs. I hope that makes sense for what I was trying to say and perhaps didn't articulate it properly. I appreciate your point of view though, everyone has a different perspective and opinion, so it's important for anyone looking to buy their first camera to watch many different videos, read articles, blogs etc to have as much knowledge to make the right decision for them.
I now have a Panasonic G9 II and those Leica lenses are something else. I’ve used FF and APS-C before but the IBIS of the G9 II (GH7 as well) is just class leading. Not even Sony, canon or Nikon can match it.
I do love the Lumix and Leica collab for sure, both for M43s and FF (Although FF lenses are somewhat expensive!). I'm very happy with the IBIS from the S5iix so I can't imagine how much better it could potentially get with the g9ii 😂
I had the s5 iix before the g9 ii. I got annoyed at the size and weight hence the change. But with the new AF and EIS ibis update on the s5 ii/iix just makes it even better! Almost gimbal or DJI like ibis too. I will definitely get another s5 ii in the future!
Yeh it’s very hard to just stick to the one system 🤣 I’d love to be able to afford to experiment with the M43s system, but FF is the better sole option for me. The G9ii does intrigue me a lot!
I think one thing that needs to be clarified is that when you are applying your 1.5x or 2x crop factor, you are applying that to get similar field of view. The focal length is the focal length is the focal length. A 50mm 1.4 lens is going to perform exactly the same, AT THE SAME DISTANCE TO SUBJECT, in terms of light gathering capability, background blur, and distortion, no matter the camera. The only thing that is affected is your field of view, or crop. So to get an equivalent field of view to a 50mm Full Frame camera (AT THE SAME DISTANCE TO SUBJECT), you would use a 33mm on a crop sensor. A 1.4f stop is going to gather the same amount of light no matter the focal length, so a 50mm f1.4 is going to gather the same amount of light as a 33mm 1.4, the only difference between these two setups now is the depth of field. You will get the equivalent depth of field on a 33mm 1.4 on a crop sensor (AT THE SAME DISTANCE TO SUBJECT) as a 50mm 2.1f lens. While gathering more light than f2.1.
I think people get confused when you apply the 1.5 or 2x to the f stop. You are only doing that calculation to get the equivalent depth of field or bokeh. Your camera sensor crop DOES NOT effect light gathering capabilities.
Now, actual pixel size on the senor does affect noise performance, so, ALL ELSE BEING EQUAL, a 26mp Full Frame Camera will have better noise performance than a 26mp Crop sensor camera. But rarely is all else actually equal. Newer cameras generally have better noise performance, the brand of camera makes a difference, the sensor type makes a difference (BSI or Stacked sensors perform better). Megapixel count even affects noise performance.
Thanks for adding all this, it's very informative! 🙂
As I always say it's very very important to not just watch one video and take it as gospel, research as much as possible. I do however think a lot of your points are very advanced for the target audience for this video. I mean I strugled to keep this video at an already quite lengthy 22 minutes 😂
But for the pruposes of this video I'd say field of view and focal length can be deemed one and the same. At the end of the day it's just about what you see and what can fit in your frame when you're starting out and I think it's more important to know why you can't fit what you can fit in the frame from the same lens when on the various systems. Plus, if I had dived into the difference between field of view, focal length, compression, ISO performance, sensor technology advancement etc, then this video would have an even lower retention rate than it perhaps already has 😂 Hence the overused word 'typically' "Typically an APSC Sensor is..." Like I said, this video would be 3 days long! 😂
I was just hoping this may help the absolute beginner answer a few queries they may have in as simple a way as possible. Because I struggle myself from intenseive information overload and tried to make this in a way that I would have personally have liked to have been told when I first started. Then it can spark their desire to research more into everything afterwards. You can't fit the entire knowledge of cameras in the one video 😂
@@TheCreatorsBlock Yeah, I did give a lot of qualifications to what I said, getting real technical. I just think, the main point that is confusing to people is being told to apply the 1.5x to both the focal length AND the f/stop. Then people start thinking that crop sensor lenses let in less light, and are confused later on and have to unlearn something they thought they knew.
You're right, it's the same amount of light at each place on a sensor regardless of its size. But total light across the whole sensor increases as one jumps up in sensor size. Four MFT cameras collect 4x total light compared to one MFT camera (or one FF camera). And crop factor can be ignored if your cameras all have the same sensor size 😊
Proud user of MFT Lumix cameras since 2008! Never looked back. So sorry for all those toxic haters
LUMIX do very intriguing MFT cameras I have to say! The G9ii is one I’d like to try!
I have made the switch recently, coming from years of both analog and DSLR photography. My budget was around 1000€ for a complete system and I landed on M4/3 relatively quickly. I already shot APS-C on my digital cameras (started with a 1000D when it came out and I was like ten years old, then went to a Sony a65 and then to a Nikon D3300) and thus wasn't worried about any loss of sensor size (especially since I cropped to 4:3 regularly anyways). I whittled it down to either an Olympus E-M1 II, or a Lumix G9. The Olympus ultimatly wonnout for me, because phase detection autofocus, a preference for Olympus lenses and just the overall aesthetics and ergonomics were important to me. I also got the loved 12-40mm 1:2.8 from Olympus and couldn't be happier. I rounded things out by adding an Olympus 45mm 1:1.8 for portraits and just recently got the 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 from Olympus to round out my kit for those few occasions I need more reach.
Overall I couldn't be happier with my chioce and adore the camera, the lenses and the workflow they provide. I like printing my inages and up to A2 size they look flawless, with A1 and even bigger being usable, at the appropriate viewing distances.
That's awesome! Looks like you made a great choice for what you wanted! Like I said M43s do intrigue me quite a bit, and would love to have the g9ii but i can't afford to be in more than one system at the minute!
Enjoy! 🙂
That’s finally explained a few questions I had! Thanks 🙏
Excellent vid
Oh wow thank you 😊🙏
@@TheCreatorsBlock no prob, keep planting seeds they will grow😊
Thanks a lot for this video. You are making a very good point that it is all bout the lenses. That said, I am sorry, but I don't get your points about depth of field and low light performance. On crop sensors, if you are applying the crop factor to both the focal lens and the aperture, you should have same depth of field and same low light performances as the equivalent full frame. why are you saying the opposite at 4:09, 8:06, and 10:18? The last time I checked, an APS-C camera with a 16mm f-1.2 APS-C lens delivers exactly the same images as a full frame camera with a 24mm f1.8. Sure, lens selection is marginally better with FF, offering a 24mm f1.4, but the vast majority of photographers won't spend that kind of money on a 24mm anyway. What am I missing?
Thank you, glad you found it useful!
Sorry for any confusion, but I think you may have misunderstood slightly. I’m not saying you can’t achieve the same look as a full frame, just not from the same lens. You need to opt for faster and wider lenses to achieve the same look from a full frame with a narrower focal length and aperture lens.
Yes you are correct the 16mm f1.2 on an APSC delivers the ‘same’ performance as a 24mm f1.8 would on a full frame. But you have had to buy a specially designed lens to achieve that same result from a FF with a 24mm f1.8. And that was a point i made somewhere in the video, you need a lens that has a wider aperture and focal length achieve the same look on a FF to compensate for that crop factor. And that specific 16mm f1.2 lens you mention wouldn’t be much use if you were to upgrade to full frame later. But if you don’t plan to upgrade then yes that’s a great lens choice to get! ☺️ However, If the 24mm f1.8 was put on both cameras then the APSC would have an aperture value equivalent to f2.7 not f1.8. So the FF would perform better using the same lenses.
You do make a good point about wider lenses though for APSC, they are more affordable. Which is why I go on to say it’s always a compromise between Image Quality and Portability & Price.
Perhaps I could have mentioned that in more detail. But when you come to the more general lens options such as your f2.8 and f4 zooms which is what most beginners will aim for, that’s when the f2.8 becomes an f4 and an f4 becomes an f6.0. Meaning that APSC low light performance isn’t as good as Full Frames because you can’t take full advantage of the focal lengths and aperture values that are actually listed on the lenses.
Yes f1.4 and f1.2 lenses can be very expensive on full frame, but you at least have the choice to go wider than an equivalent f1.8 if you wanted.
Does that make sense? 🤣
I hope that helps 😊
@@TheCreatorsBlock thanks for taking the time to reply and provide some much needed clarifications. Yes, it somewhat makes sense, except for the suggestion that it's a reasonable idea to purchase full frame lenses to use on APS-C cameras. More than half of the light is wasted, it adds a significant cost in $, it's significantly heavier, and for many normal focal lengths there wouldn't even be any full frame lens that would give image quality as good as the APS-C options. For instance, try to match the 16mm f1.2 APS-C lens using a full frame lens. The best 16mm full frame lens would be f1.8, but it costs an additional $250 and weighs almost 200g more. Considering that the cheaper and lighter APS-C lens will be more than 2 stops brighter, will have noticeably shallower depth of field, and will have less distorsion, I can't see why anyone would decide to purchase the FF lens instead of the APS-C lens. What am I missing?
@@comeraczy2483 Ha, this has definitely opened up a can of worms in the comments. 😂
Firstly, I do not know everything about every camera or lens/camera combo that's out there (Which is why I say you should research this yourself). I'm just trying my absolute best (I'm not perfect! I am STILL LEARNING too 😂) to hopefully help the absolute beginner answer a few unanswered questions they may have to mke a more informed decision, because like I said, it wasn't clear to me at first, so I wish I knew some of this before I started, it would have sped up my progress for sure 😂
You do make a great point about the 16mm f1.2 APSC lens. I actually did own this lens when I had the a6500 a while back because I was chasing that Full Frame look and struggled with APSC personally, oh no sorry I think it was actually a 16mm f1.4, not usre, but it was a similar lens. BUT my aspiration, was always to upgrade to full frame in the future. So for me (which I mention as just my personal opinion in the video) buying APSC lenses was not the right financial or progressive route for me. Instead I wanted full frame lenses so that when I do upgrade to full frame I have (hopefully) a selection of lenses that I can swap between both cameras and have 2 field of view options with each lens.
However, I still do not fully see the benefit to buying APSC lenses UNLESS you 100% plan to stay in that system, then it most certainly does because they are cheaper and lighter than the full frame alternatives. BUT, you do only mention the one lens, the 16mm f1.2. There really aren't many other (if any) lenses that (to my knowledge anyway) that truly stick to having lower aperture values to help compensate from the reduction in low light performance from an APSC sensor (by performance I mean ISO performance). APSC lenses typically have very similar aperture values and focal lengths to their full frame alternatives. For example the classic 24-105 f4 full frame, the APSC alternative is 18-105mm f4 I believe. A great option, HOWEVER, it's still f4, so there's no aditional low light performance advantage, just it's now a bit wider at 18mm. So if you upgrade to full frame, then what? You need to eitehr sell it and buy the 24-105 f4, or you keep it and keep it on your APSC camera but now you need a second lens for your full frame. Do you know what I mean? I'm not by any way saying that APSC lenses are useless or not worth buying, they have their place and it's all personal preference and how you see your photography journey progressing. I would just personally think it would be much more appealing if they were designed more like M43s lenses that are fully designed in a way to make them truly much lighter and with wider aperture values to help compensate for that reduced low light performance. So that 18-105 f4 would be fantastic if it were an f2.8 instead (There may even be an option, I'm not so sure). The key is to research as much as possible and look at what will best suit your needs.
I hope that makes sense for what I was trying to say and perhaps didn't articulate it properly. I appreciate your point of view though, everyone has a different perspective and opinion, so it's important for anyone looking to buy their first camera to watch many different videos, read articles, blogs etc to have as much knowledge to make the right decision for them.
I now have a Panasonic G9 II and those Leica lenses are something else. I’ve used FF and APS-C before but the IBIS of the G9 II (GH7 as well) is just class leading. Not even Sony, canon or Nikon can match it.
I do love the Lumix and Leica collab for sure, both for M43s and FF (Although FF lenses are somewhat expensive!). I'm very happy with the IBIS from the S5iix so I can't imagine how much better it could potentially get with the g9ii 😂
I had the s5 iix before the g9 ii. I got annoyed at the size and weight hence the change. But with the new AF and EIS ibis update on the s5 ii/iix just makes it even better! Almost gimbal or DJI like ibis too. I will definitely get another s5 ii in the future!
Yeh it’s very hard to just stick to the one system 🤣
I’d love to be able to afford to experiment with the M43s system, but FF is the better sole option for me. The G9ii does intrigue me a lot!
and Pentax
🤣 Yes there are other brands but I struggled to keep this video at around 20minutes as it is 🤣