PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEEASE, Brother Barnes, write that Temple book you mentioned around 28:00!!! I literally dropped what I was eating and my heart leapt for joy! THE WORLD NEEDS THAT BOOK, and so do I!!!! ❤
it's comin'. it's comin'. I gotta do the second book first, though. Number three is on the Temple and the New Testament. There's so much on the temple. I'm hurrying, Julia! Don't give up on me!
In the mean time, read DJ Butler's book In the Language of Adam. Butler goes over the temple stuff a lot, in his interviews (Stick of Joseph, Ward Radio) and presumably in his book (I haven't gotten it yet), much of it is likely a lot of the same content that Jonah studied himself.
@@jonahbarnes5841Awesome Work, I have always felt a kindred spirit of interests & knowledge , to your responses. You are 99% to what I believe , is the big masterpiece. I have enjoyed your insight and as it agrees with my thoughts and theories.... I learn that "extra 1% " from Robert Kay "The Hebrew Mormon" , he has many presentations and a Channel here on RUclips. [My name is Jason , and I would love to share my theories with the Ward. . . Lol 😅 j/j ... Maybe just through here and just hearing them here , can inspire a RUclips search for " Robert Kay". [Also, Robin Young has a Great presentation on Joseph and Evidence in Egypt .]]
Si much hope placed in a book? Could this biblio-savior (obsession with books saving us) be a by product of Sola Scriptura which claims to be the foundation of the church?
Jacob, your point is fascinating that Joseph Smith focused all the way back into Old Testament times in the restoration rather than simply to the ancient Christian church. Jonah, I love your research. You make arguments that are interesting, exciting and., to me, are original. I can’t wait to read your book.
He isn't the first person to point out Joseph Smith seemed to reach back to more ancient theology than the NT. Even non-LDS critic Harold Bloom, when he wasn't talking like an anti for political reasons, was astounded by Joseph Smith's ability to touch on forgotten Old Testament interpretations.
34:08 "What is so bad about the infallibility of the canon argument is that the people who made the canon didn't think it was infallible and the people who thought it was infallible didn't make it"
If they didn't think it was infallible, why would they make it canon? Given that they endeavored to canonize the gospels, can't we assume the parts they selected are infallible and the parts they rejected are erroneous? Mormonism, like every other denomination of Christianity, endeavors to establish an infallible gospel canon. Unlike the others, however, it endeavors to do this by *adding* to it. Protestants have endeavored to do this by *removing* from it. Yes, it's silliness for a protestant to say, "the gospel canon is infallible", but this is only true when we imagine a literary definition for the word 'canon'. It's silly for the same reason it's silly to say, "Star Wars canon is infallible." Star Wars canon is definitely not infallible. Many of those proverbial branches have been clipped off already and most of us are none the wiser. But when we imagine 'gospel canon' to mean our true and shared history and heritage, as well as our only hope for salvation, then what's silly about it? If we should be wrong, not only are we going to burn in hell for eternity, but we're also guiding others to the same end... Ecclesiastes 2:2-26 New International Version 2 “Laughter,” I said, “is madness.
@@HeIljumper The book of mormon specifically calls itself out as NOT being infallible, yet is still canonized. I disagree with your take on hell. Any repentant person isn't going to hell, regardless of the books they are reading. That's a little too Calvanist for me.
@cubic-h6041 You could be right about hell but the Book of Mormon is canon to Mormons only Every generation, the LDS church becomes more and more like the other churches and the Book of Mormon becomes more and more fallible Our subjective interpretation of canonized gospel will always be fallible but that's not evidence that infallibility in the gospels is acceptable The gospel accounts and the wisdom and stories of the old testament are infallible and they must be, otherwise every doctrine we follow and live by, we do so for no reason because the foundation they rest on is not firm
@@cubic-h6041 You could be right about hell, but the Book of Mormon is canon to the LDS church only. Our perceptions and sensibilities are fallible, but the gospels themselves are infallible. The infallibility of the gospels is a critical component because if they aren't infallible, then we have no reason to place our faith in them. The LDS church has become more and more like the other churches and less and less like its original founder envisioned with every passing generation because the Book of Mormon is fallible, and the gospels are not...
Well done to the interviewer! You were so well prepared it allowed for Jonah’s work and the content to absolutely shine. Bravo! 👏 You also engaged with him so well without undue interruptions yet great discussion. I was super impressed. Nice!
Genius!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 love seeing so many Joe Schmo members that are doing their homework and bringing the Gospel even way more alive than it already has been… LOVE IT!!!
This explains to me at least why Paul cautioned Galatians about not listening to another gospel. He was warning them to not fall prey to another apostasy like the Jews before them had.
I'm excited to read this! I feel like most members of the church take the Book of Mormon vastly for granted, myself included. I'm getting excited to study the Book of Mormon seriously again.
Great conversation. When you were talking about these apocryphal writing may be remnants from the original, it made me think of Nibley, Nibley was cross referencing apocryphal with Joseph Smith revealed scripture and known scripture. He would compare and contrast for the exact same writings or similar patterned stories to find a second witness of the truth and this was back in the 60s, 70s. He was really foundational on his approach and he doesn't get enough credit.
Hugh was a really good friend with my Grandpa. They co-authored many books and were among a board composed of LDS religious scholars who authored the Missionary Discussions, the old Gospel Doctrine manuals, seminary and institute manuals, and they each were authors for different Prophets and Apostles and these men did not care to get much, or any credit for the work they did for the Church. Look up Glenn L. Pearson and you'll see some of his writings and maybe some that he and Hugh coauthored. They're such fascinating men.
This episode was so fascinating guys!! I love the point about the gap of references in the Book of Mormon between Numbers and Chronicles and how that understanding and knowledge of that gap didn’t show up until a hundred years after Joseph was dead. It was mind blowing and I feel the more members of the church understood the Deuteronomist reforms the more they will understand the mission of Christ and the need for the restoration of all things ancient, not just the era of Christ. I have been on a tear lately of understanding all of this and it just strengthens my testimony even more! Keep this stuff coming!!
Law of witnesses: in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established. I love hopping between channels to follow these conversational threads. The cross-cooperation between channels is the key to the Testaments. Divine. Email just hit. My mailing label has been printed! Not yet shipped. Still waiting. But please, more discussions. I keep ordering these books but can't even read them because of energy issues. I rely on consuming these interviews (sometimes in segments) to be exposed to these fabulous thoughts.
Has Robert Boylan been given a copy for review? Would love to hear his thoughts on this. And just to confirm the audio version is included in the purchase of the book?
I love the fact that we are asking the questions now. In fact, whenever anyone asks a question or wants me to answer a BOM criticism, I always say fine, for every question I answer you have to answer one as well.
Excellent video. I love the pseudepigrapha. Many books clearly shows Joseph Smith knew things he could not have possibly known about the ancient world without divine revelation. I’m going to buy your book.
@@mgeuleinstsear Essentially zero of these ideas are found in the Apocrypha available to Joseph Smith. Jonah even says in the video that he didn't quote those books at all in his book. Kind of makes me wonder if you actually watched it.
A name that doesn’t seem to get attention is David Bokovoy (LDS member). His book “Authoring the Old Testament” is quite startling to the implications of the restoration. Bokovoy’s higher criticism and supporter of the Documentary Hypothesis, in my opinion, is the greatest threat to the reliability of these pre-Christian figures that are mentioned in the Book of Mormon and other restoration scriptures. If the current Torah is the reference point then David Bokovoy has pointed out the problem to Joseph’s works. But, if there are older texts or verbal stories predating the scribes of the OT then there is some hope. The Brass Plates need more attention to potentially understanding that the Bible may be actually a bad reference to use. However, Bokovoy points out that writing systems and record keeping would not exist per se in Moses’s day. It would be awesome to have Bokovoy interviewed since his assumptions have much greater weight than most of the anti Mormon narratives. Not sure where Bokovoy stands today with respect to belief but he does bring up the challenges that are applicable to the subject being discussed.
@@daleclark7127 watch Patterns of Evidence, the Moses Controversy. It’s very interesting. It addresses the matter of whether or not there was any writing system in his day.
50:20 This reminds me of that one one scripture: Helaman chapter 16 verse 16. It reads, "Some things they may have guessed right, among so many; but behold, we know that all these great and marvelous works cannot come to pass, of which has been spoken." Man...prideful people who wont accept change is always be the same no mater thr era.
One thing I’ve always wondered about is where did John the Baptist get the idea of baptism from? It’s not obviously clear in the Old Testament that the Jews were being baptized, but the jewish leaders never challenged him on what he was doing so they must have understood what he was doing by baptizing people.
“Baptism” was a common practice among Jews then and even now. They were ritual practices, washing, sprinkling, immersion were all common. So, this isn’t as amazing a thought as you might have been told.
Your question was where did John even come up with baptisms and I answered that. Baptisms aren’t meant to be covenants, it’s symbolic of the cleansing of sin and an outward declaration to follow Jesus. It can be argued that baptisms aren’t “necessary”, the only thing necessary is to place your faith in Jesus.
Years ago I was asked to participate in a panel of different religions where I was representing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There was a female reformed Jewish rabbi. At one point, someone on the panel asked her something like ‘so you only believe in the Old Testament, correct?’ I loved her response. She said “No, we believe in the Bible. The fact that you added a bunch of stuff to is, doesn’t affect us.” It was almost funny to hear a Protestant hear about the New Testament, what we hear constantly about the Book of Mormon. It is interesting that detractors will use Proverbs 30:5-6 and Deuteronomy 4:2 as “proof” that the Book of Mormon could not be “added” to the Bible, when the exact same argument could be made against the New Testament, and neither argument would be correct.
Jonah, the thing you brought up about exploring more by being tethered to the prophet and apostles was really profound. That tether is made possible through making and keeping covenants, which we do in the very temple worship that was restored. Great work on the book, no matter what the skeptics say.
Since it's Halloween season I heard that this video was too scary for evangelicals to watch. It's so scary that after evangelicals watch this video they sleep with the door open to make sure the lost scriptures dont show up!
I love all these discussions. I see Jonah on ward radio, and a number of other channels making complete sense (especially when he talks Star Wars) and I'd love to see him sit down with Hello Saints' Paster Jeff and go through all this with him. Maybe do some good in his circles.
Jonah, I love your book! I've gained so much insight by opening my mind to other traditions, cultures and beliefs. Your ability to find the links between the apocryphal and what would be in the "brass plates" is amazing! You mentioned that you read apocryphal books in your spare time. Have you read The Sacred Book of the Nemenhah? I would love to know your thoughts on that record.
I am currently reading "The Key to the Keystone" how the Apocrypha texts unlock The Book of Mormon's Brass Plates by Jonah R Barnes. It's brilliantly written and actually a lot of fun to read. Jonah has a great personality and sharp mind. Thank you for this fantastic book. I am only on page 112. It's wonderful that you have done this wonderful research and taking the time to share it with the 🌎🌍
Loved this! I will be buying the book. As a related note, I recently saw a video of a Chinese Christian reading Chinese records from about 2500 BC that are almost identical to Genesis. The Evangelical hosting the video was so excited that the Chinese had "scriptures" from the same origin as the Jewish ones, and I had to just shake my head. 😂
Hilarious that these Evangelicals would be excited about a Chinese Christian sharing similar stories but not Joseph Smith bringing forth the Book of Mormon and the Native American’s connection to Israel.
Personally, the plates of brass from BOM passages sound like the Hebrew Bible except it stops at the reign of king Zedekiah and contains other prophets, like Zenos, Zenock, and Neum (1 Ne. 5:11-13; 1 Ne. 19:10; 1 Ne. 13:20-23). I ordered the book and look forward to analyzing it.
@@hrv4908 No, it's not.Sorry, but the Book of Mormon is not inspired from heaven. It is full of errors and contradictions and most likely pure fantasy. Sorry, but you have fallen into the trap. Have you ever wondered why so many people leave the church? And now digging up apocrypha out of sheer helplessness to find another "truth" is pretty the wrong way. No offense, but valid criticism.
I do hope the church embraces the Nag Hammadi codex and these early versions of Christianities of 100Ad to 350ad when Nicene Council started to encode the universal view of Christianity from the eastern Roman Empire perspective. The great apostasy was a foundational concept but I feel like it was reduced in the recent years by apologists. Gnostic thought is varied and falls on both extremes but Mormonism is very Gnostic in its core. The secret knowledge (endowment) taught in secret places(temples) for salvation is a Gnostic concept to provide members the knowledge to transcended past the angels that stand as sentinel guarding heaven (Brigham young in JoD). This is similar to Gnostic passing the archons. I mean no disrespect. I’m saddened to see the church drift into more alignment with the Protestants who do not see Mormonism as Christians due to the differences in godhead and the Nicene creed but I see this as the great apostasy.
Blimey! I'm not a very good scriptural reader, apart from the oft quoted chapters of the Book of Mormon to use in lessons etc, but this podcast has opened up my curiousity and need to understand the scripures more competely, taking them more seriously and expand my understanding. I've ordered The Apocrypha (101 books ditions, as well as the 16) on Kindle because there are various versions, but will start with the basics first! I've also ordered Jonah's book which will be a guide. Thank you so much!
Along the lines of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, Jacob, would you consider reading and interviewing Jonathan Neville and James Lucus regarding their book, " By Means of the Urim and Thummim; restoring Translation to the Book of Mormon"?
A book may sound crazy, but things are rarely what they seem. For one thing, we tend to think something unfamiliar is crazy while overlooking what we are familiar with and accept without a second thought something that isn't substantially different. Secondly, it overlooks code. Think about how the book of Mormon, Nag Hammadi codices and the Dead Sea Scrolls were all buried in the ground to save them from destruction. Certain books were allowed into the canon because the authorities did not recognize the inner meaning of text. It was thus buried for its own protection in a similar manner as the plates of Mormon. Some of these other books that you mention sound really crazy are intended that way, as a misdirection. The meaning in the book is beneath the surface. While the those in the canon are hidden behind language that sounds orthodox, some of the others are hidden behind very different language. Think of these as sealed books, but that employ different types of seals. Once the seal is removed, however, the differences will not matter. Another way a book can be sealed is called cryptography, wherein an algorithm is employed to convert the original message into meaningless text and typically requires the cipher to restore it. A similar concept called steganography is a little more subtle, in which case one text is completely hidden within a different text altogether, along with all signs that there is a hidden message at all. Anyone who sees this other text, say for instance an Egyptian funerary text, would detect no sign that another text remains locked within it, and without the key or algorithm, would have no hope of extracting it even if they knew it was there. We know that cryptography was in use by Cicero in the century before Christ, which matches the proposed composition of these manuscripts, however examples of stenography that hides messages altogether using other than text as a mask was in use in the region as early as 440 BC, with principles peripheral to this topic being discussing in Sun Tzu's Art of War around 500 BC, suggesting some early forms of steganography were employed then. But the earliest known use may appear in the pages of the I-Ching at early as 900 BC or earlier, and thought his makes a great argument that the practice could have been known and used at that time, we also have a God instructing prophets on technologies that the rest of the world is perplexed at. And Considering that these are just further elaborations of the practice of hiding or burying text and for the same exact reason - preservation for a specific time and place in the future, steganography becomes a plausible solution to the Book of Abraham enigma and the Joseph Smith Papyri, and an attractive one because it also explains the creation of the Egyptian Alphabet document. Now the means of translation is divine power, but the workings of the this operation would be even somewhat mysterious to the translator, as the process requires faith as they receive words, but have to then check those words. In essence, the unknown prophet, either around the time of Christ if current dating estimates hold true, or another time if they do not, by the instruction of the Holy Spirit, either commissioned these burial books or produced them himself, as they would be safe buried in the tomb for a long time to come. The key however, was not handed down, but the gift of translation, like the gift of tongues, and possibly with the help of a Urim and Thummim, is the only means to extract such a code without it. All this information, however, is unknown to Joseph Smith, who does not comprehend these languages with his mind and can only go by the Holy Spirit, though he has become proficient in such translation and has come to enjoy some confidence in the correctness of his work. He sees a scroll and the Spirit whispers the sacred books that it contains, and when he submits himself to the process, the Book of Abraham is what he obtains. He doesn't know but what it is a direct translation from the Egyptian. And we also know that between Moroni's Charge in Moroni 10:3-5 and D&C 8 & 9 pertaining to knowledge of all things that comes by the Holy Spirit, that studying it out in one's mind and pondering it in one's heart are critical components in this edifying process of expanding one's mind, enlarging ones soul and deepening one's personal connection with God, and by refining this process, it becomes the iron rod that keeps men sure and steadfast, leading to eternal life. We also have Doctrine and Covenants 130:18-19, “Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.” Joseph and his associates also sought to learn the Egyptian themselves, for it would be wonderful to have that skill available when needed and not only be reliant on the miraculous power of God. Thus they created the Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar, and even attempted to use the divinely obtained translation to reverse engineer the Demotic. It won't work, but Joseph and his friends do not know this, and thus it is an honest enough attempt, and they were anxiously engaged in a good cause, and as it does not appear that they had completed this academic endeavor, we should have no expectation that they had as yet carried this work before the Lord for any revelatory confirmation. This intent was no different than Joseph's effort to also learn Hebrew by studying under a rabbi, which offered greater success, but there were no Egyptologists who could tutor them in the same way conveniently close. This leaves the texts of Abraham, Mormon and any future analog securely unfalsifiable, which is where the Lord wants it in order to test the faith of his people and ultimately to confound the wise, as he said said many times that it was his intent to do so, to work a strange act and a mighty work and wonder that men will not believe even if one declared it unto them. This is again why the Lord keeps the evidences enough balanced to let those with eyes to see look toward him while those who are wise in their own eyes remain blind, and unfortunately the sacrifice He requires of his prophets is to look like frauds and his Saints like fools in order to let the curtain fall dramatically in the end and reveal to the world how they were tricked by their own pride and ego and devious inclinations. That jarring realization of being wrong after being so self assured is a most powerful and beneficial lesson. But while we who believe recognize this in relation to the original documents of the Restoration, let us not forget these same principles as they apply to new ones being discovered.
Also the Book of Mormon quotes from other prophets writings not mentioned in the Bible also supporting that the Brass Plates had more writings of prophets we don't have nor have knowledge about l. We get some of the prophocies of Zenos, Zenock, Neum and other prophocies of Joseph son of Jacob as well as a prophocy of Jacob (Isreal). Zenos could be the same as the prophet mentioned in the Antiquities of Philo. There is much more illusions to the olive tree in Philo. To better understand things is to first understand some wording. The correct name is Old Covenant and New Covenant. The Old covenant mainly pertains to the promises, blessings and covenants God made with Jacob (Israel) and his posterity. Prior to that the covenants, blessings and promises were unto all for Abraham saught for the blessings of the Father's (except those who were cut off as to being legal administrators of these blessings through holding the rights to the priesthood.) The New covenant pertains to the covenant God made with Adam in the beginning being a restoration in the days of Christ but being a new covenant unto the house of Israel & also a restoration during Jesus Christ ministry. Now in our day it is a final or in other words the last time of restoration of all things unto all the children of Adam, where all things will be restored and gathered into one unto Christ. Even to the restoration that all (meaning all lineages of the children of Adam) will have a legal right to the hold and administer in the priesthood to the blessing of all of God's children. There are many records lost, in fragments, some still hid up unto the Lord to come forth in the day of righteousness in their purity. Many nations still have parts of that knowledge written in their histories and so forth. I thank God for the restoration of the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ through the prophet Joseph Smith. So much to look forward too. God be thanked through his Son Jesus Christ! 🙏🏽 Nice video brethren. This looks like one book I might just purchase.
Can't remember who the quote came from (maybe Neal A. Maxwell), but something about there would be many evidences brought forth backing the truth. I always thought this would be B of M evidence, but I think this definitely qualifies.
Enjoyed the show and I have ordered the book. I tend to agree that modern scholars have misinterpreted Messianic writings that seemed to clearly mention the redeemer because of their predisposition to not believe in prophecy. One comment though on the absence of any references from the books of Deuteronomy to Chronicles. Alma 52:22 refers to a war strategy that I think is repeated three times in the Book of Mormon that is found in Joshua 8:13. The ruse was designed to entice armies in fortified cities to leave their fortifications. It is possible, if not probable that Moroni got the idea from Joshua. Although no reference is made to Joshua or the Israelites in the story the strategy is exactly that described in Joshua 8:13. Helaman later repeated this strategy two more times to win the cities of Antiparah (Alma 56) and Manti (Alma 58).
“Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.” John 4:20-24 KJV
30:05 If you read John 4, it seems pretty clear that Jesus was actually saying you don't need to worship in the temple. He said "neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem", not "both on this mountain, in Jerusalem and wherever else you can build temples." He told the Samaritan woman that God is spirit and believers worship in spirit and in truth. If he had an issue with Jerusalem only model, it seems like an odd response.
I’ve heard Protestants literally say that “the Bible is written by God. What isn’t canonized isn’t written by God.” And then even quote that “don’t take away from these things” verse at the end of revelation, which also appears in deuteronomy. The narrow minded blindness, man… to think that nobody else in history could have been inspired, could have been a prophet… could have had visions or truth… take the antediluvian period for example. Probably about 1500 years of history with a likely rapidly advancing society. We find pyramids, traces of technology, electricity, and giants, megalithic structures that blow our minds, both on land and deep in the ocean, and all we get in genesis is about 6 chapters that span that entire period. To say that nothing could have ever been lost, is … I don’t know what to call it. How can anyone think that?
Mormons could be the one part of Christianity that might finally have the spine to speak on the mysteries and the esoteric , ancient wisdom long gatekept
@jonahbarnes5841 just another try at an incoherent Restoration of twisting secondary sources that weren't viewed as Scripture then or NOW. BTW foxes are smarter !!!!
I remember Christ teaching these same principles as well. "Don't believe anything until the theories have been battle tested against an 'author skeptical biblical expert'"
Also… when Christ came to the Nephites… he reminded them that they hadn’t included the story of Samuel the Lamanite in their writings… and instructed them to go back and include it. ❤
The Book of Mormon also addresses the Deutero-Isaiah theory. In 3rd Nephi Jesus quotes the entire 54th chapter of Isaiah and then says ""great are the words of Isaiah for surely he (Isaiah) spake as touching all things ...." Deutero- Isaiah postulates that chapters 40-66 were written by someone other than Isaiah. That's clearly not what Jesus says,.
I can't stand it when people say, even Jacob here, that Jesus was rebelling against the Jewish leaders. Jesus was incapable of rebelling against them. He was their King and they were rebelling against Him.
Then I guess you'd have a problem saying that Joseph Smith was rebelling against the Christianity of his day? I get your point, but it's just semantics.
@@jandjhirst That concept of "Jesus being a rebel" is the justification that many progressive Christians use to say that Jesus would be the grand marshal of notable pride parades. Its important to denote that Jesus wasn't a rebel. Christ was the law.
From this we can surmise that Mormon in his writting is what we find in the Book of Mormon, wrote what the Spirit prompted him to write as he abridged the plates. Therefore we have the important doctrines that we need to learn and follow. All this certainly is evidence that the Book of Mormon is true.
PLEASE PLEASE PLEEEEEASE, Brother Barnes, write that Temple book you mentioned around 28:00!!! I literally dropped what I was eating and my heart leapt for joy! THE WORLD NEEDS THAT BOOK, and so do I!!!! ❤
it's comin'. it's comin'. I gotta do the second book first, though. Number three is on the Temple and the New Testament. There's so much on the temple. I'm hurrying, Julia! Don't give up on me!
We need the temple book as quickly as possible. Can’t wait.
In the mean time, read DJ Butler's book In the Language of Adam. Butler goes over the temple stuff a lot, in his interviews (Stick of Joseph, Ward Radio) and presumably in his book (I haven't gotten it yet), much of it is likely a lot of the same content that Jonah studied himself.
@@jonahbarnes5841Awesome Work, I have always felt a kindred spirit of interests & knowledge , to your responses. You are 99% to what I believe , is the big masterpiece. I have enjoyed your insight and as it agrees with my thoughts and theories.... I learn that "extra 1% " from Robert Kay "The Hebrew Mormon" , he has many presentations and a Channel here on RUclips. [My name is Jason , and I would love to share my theories with the Ward. . . Lol 😅 j/j ... Maybe just through here and just hearing them here , can inspire a RUclips search for " Robert Kay". [Also, Robin Young has a Great presentation on Joseph and Evidence in Egypt .]]
Si much hope placed in a book? Could this biblio-savior (obsession with books saving us) be a by product of Sola Scriptura which claims to be the foundation of the church?
Jacob, your point is fascinating that Joseph Smith focused all the way back into Old Testament times in the restoration rather than simply to the ancient Christian church.
Jonah, I love your research. You make arguments that are interesting, exciting and., to me, are original. I can’t wait to read your book.
Great comment! I agree
He isn't the first person to point out Joseph Smith seemed to reach back to more ancient theology than the NT. Even non-LDS critic Harold Bloom, when he wasn't talking like an anti for political reasons, was astounded by Joseph Smith's ability to touch on forgotten Old Testament interpretations.
He’s dynamic and very intelligent… and entertaining and hot!
That made me LOL
Make apocrypha great again
🤨🤨🤨
😂
Make pseudopigrapha great again
buy a catholic or orthodox bible.
Legit
34:08 "What is so bad about the infallibility of the canon argument is that the people who made the canon didn't think it was infallible and the people who thought it was infallible didn't make it"
Such an important take. They are already riding on the coattails of the Catholics to come up with a canon.
If they didn't think it was infallible, why would they make it canon?
Given that they endeavored to canonize the gospels, can't we assume the parts they selected are infallible and the parts they rejected are erroneous?
Mormonism, like every other denomination of Christianity, endeavors to establish an infallible gospel canon. Unlike the others, however, it endeavors to do this by *adding* to it. Protestants have endeavored to do this by *removing* from it.
Yes, it's silliness for a protestant to say, "the gospel canon is infallible", but this is only true when we imagine a literary definition for the word 'canon'. It's silly for the same reason it's silly to say, "Star Wars canon is infallible." Star Wars canon is definitely not infallible. Many of those proverbial branches have been clipped off already and most of us are none the wiser.
But when we imagine 'gospel canon' to mean our true and shared history and heritage, as well as our only hope for salvation, then what's silly about it?
If we should be wrong, not only are we going to burn in hell for eternity, but we're also guiding others to the same end...
Ecclesiastes 2:2-26
New International Version
2 “Laughter,” I said, “is madness.
@@HeIljumper The book of mormon specifically calls itself out as NOT being infallible, yet is still canonized. I disagree with your take on hell. Any repentant person isn't going to hell, regardless of the books they are reading. That's a little too Calvanist for me.
@cubic-h6041
You could be right about hell but the Book of Mormon is canon to Mormons only
Every generation, the LDS church becomes more and more like the other churches and the Book of Mormon becomes more and more fallible
Our subjective interpretation of canonized gospel will always be fallible but that's not evidence that infallibility in the gospels is acceptable
The gospel accounts and the wisdom and stories of the old testament are infallible and they must be, otherwise every doctrine we follow and live by, we do so for no reason because the foundation they rest on is not firm
@@cubic-h6041 You could be right about hell, but the Book of Mormon is canon to the LDS church only.
Our perceptions and sensibilities are fallible, but the gospels themselves are infallible. The infallibility of the gospels is a critical component because if they aren't infallible, then we have no reason to place our faith in them.
The LDS church has become more and more like the other churches and less and less like its original founder envisioned with every passing generation because the Book of Mormon is fallible, and the gospels are not...
I want 100 episodes of Jonah and Jacob conversation content!! Pretty please!!
We made them! We talked for hours and hours. It's just, we didn't have the cameras on.😊
🙄🤦🏼♀️*siiiiiiiigh* @@jonahbarnes5841
@@jonahbarnes5841Doh!
Well done to the interviewer! You were so well prepared it allowed for Jonah’s work and the content to absolutely shine. Bravo! 👏 You also engaged with him so well without undue interruptions yet great discussion. I was super impressed. Nice!
Genius!!! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 love seeing so many Joe Schmo members that are doing their homework and bringing the Gospel even way more alive than it already has been… LOVE IT!!!
This explains to me at least why Paul cautioned Galatians about not listening to another gospel. He was warning them to not fall prey to another apostasy like the Jews before them had.
Mormons and Apostasy so cringe from their ignorance of Biblical and church history.
@@craiggoodrich2452 Mormons don't listen to Paul that's why they're Mormons and not Christians
Really? What gospel was that?
Really, what gospel was that?
Did you not understand my reply? It’s kind of self explanatory.
I'm excited to read this! I feel like most members of the church take the Book of Mormon vastly for granted, myself included. I'm getting excited to study the Book of Mormon seriously again.
Bingo
Great conversation. When you were talking about these apocryphal writing may be remnants from the original, it made me think of Nibley, Nibley was cross referencing apocryphal with Joseph Smith revealed scripture and known scripture. He would compare and contrast for the exact same writings or similar patterned stories to find a second witness of the truth and this was back in the 60s, 70s. He was really foundational on his approach and he doesn't get enough credit.
Hugh was a really good friend with my Grandpa. They co-authored many books and were among a board composed of LDS religious scholars who authored the Missionary Discussions, the old Gospel Doctrine manuals, seminary and institute manuals, and they each were authors for different Prophets and Apostles and these men did not care to get much, or any credit for the work they did for the Church.
Look up Glenn L. Pearson and you'll see some of his writings and maybe some that he and Hugh coauthored. They're such fascinating men.
@@LisaPFrampton that is a familiar name. I served my mission in 82. My biggest impact was what was available in the 70s and 80s. Thanks for sharing.
This episode was so fascinating guys!! I love the point about the gap of references in the Book of Mormon between Numbers and Chronicles and how that understanding and knowledge of that gap didn’t show up until a hundred years after Joseph was dead. It was mind blowing and I feel the more members of the church understood the Deuteronomist reforms the more they will understand the mission of Christ and the need for the restoration of all things ancient, not just the era of Christ. I have been on a tear lately of understanding all of this and it just strengthens my testimony even more! Keep this stuff coming!!
One of the best interviews you've e done. Sharing it left and right. Wow!
Law of witnesses: in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established.
I love hopping between channels to follow these conversational threads. The cross-cooperation between channels is the key to the Testaments. Divine.
Email just hit. My mailing label has been printed! Not yet shipped. Still waiting. But please, more discussions. I keep ordering these books but can't even read them because of energy issues. I rely on consuming these interviews (sometimes in segments) to be exposed to these fabulous thoughts.
I am really looking forward to Jacob's thoughts on Jonah's ideas!
Has Robert Boylan been given a copy for review?
Would love to hear his thoughts on this. And just to confirm the audio version is included in the purchase of the book?
I love the fact that we are asking the questions now. In fact, whenever anyone asks a question or wants me to answer a BOM criticism, I always say fine, for every question I answer you have to answer one as well.
The format of this interview was fantastic. I really liked how the camera went back and forth. The set looks great. This is fantastic production job 👏
Excellent video. I love the pseudepigrapha. Many books clearly shows Joseph Smith knew things he could not have possibly known about the ancient world without divine revelation. I’m going to buy your book.
No, it means he read those books too and got his ideas from them.
@@davidjanbaz7728Except almost none of them existed during his time.
@@n.d.m.515False. Joseph Smith did have a Bible that included the Apocrypha. And that’s where he got some of his ideas from.
@@mgeuleinstsear I said almost none. I am well aware of the ones that were in his Bible.
@@mgeuleinstsear Essentially zero of these ideas are found in the Apocrypha available to Joseph Smith. Jonah even says in the video that he didn't quote those books at all in his book. Kind of makes me wonder if you actually watched it.
A name that doesn’t seem to get attention is David Bokovoy (LDS member). His book “Authoring the Old Testament” is quite startling to the implications of the restoration. Bokovoy’s higher criticism and supporter of the Documentary Hypothesis, in my opinion, is the greatest threat to the reliability of these pre-Christian figures that are mentioned in the Book of Mormon and other restoration scriptures. If the current Torah is the reference point then David Bokovoy has pointed out the problem to Joseph’s works. But, if there are older texts or verbal stories predating the scribes of the OT then there is some hope. The Brass Plates need more attention to potentially understanding that the Bible may be actually a bad reference to use. However, Bokovoy points out that writing systems and record keeping would not exist per se in Moses’s day. It would be awesome to have Bokovoy interviewed since his assumptions have much greater weight than most of the anti Mormon narratives. Not sure where Bokovoy stands today with respect to belief but he does bring up the challenges that are applicable to the subject being discussed.
@@daleclark7127 watch Patterns of Evidence, the Moses Controversy. It’s very interesting. It addresses the matter of whether or not there was any writing system in his day.
Thanks for this suggestion; just found a copy on Amazon for $8 and ordered:)
50:20
This reminds me of that one one scripture: Helaman chapter 16 verse 16. It reads, "Some things they may have guessed right, among so many; but behold, we know that all these great and marvelous works cannot come to pass, of which has been spoken."
Man...prideful people who wont accept change is always be the same no mater thr era.
One thing I’ve always wondered about is where did John the Baptist get the idea of baptism from? It’s not obviously clear in the Old Testament that the Jews were being baptized, but the jewish leaders never challenged him on what he was doing so they must have understood what he was doing by baptizing people.
“Baptism” was a common practice among Jews then and even now. They were ritual practices, washing, sprinkling, immersion were all common. So, this isn’t as amazing a thought as you might have been told.
@ but was it done as a covenant that you would follow the Messiah?
Your question was where did John even come up with baptisms and I answered that. Baptisms aren’t meant to be covenants, it’s symbolic of the cleansing of sin and an outward declaration to follow Jesus. It can be argued that baptisms aren’t “necessary”, the only thing necessary is to place your faith in Jesus.
Years ago I was asked to participate in a panel of different religions where I was representing the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. There was a female reformed Jewish rabbi. At one point, someone on the panel asked her something like ‘so you only believe in the Old Testament, correct?’ I loved her response. She said “No, we believe in the Bible. The fact that you added a bunch of stuff to is, doesn’t affect us.” It was almost funny to hear a Protestant hear about the New Testament, what we hear constantly about the Book of Mormon. It is interesting that detractors will use Proverbs 30:5-6 and Deuteronomy 4:2 as “proof” that the Book of Mormon could not be “added” to the Bible, when the exact same argument could be made against the New Testament, and neither argument would be correct.
Jonah, the thing you brought up about exploring more by being tethered to the prophet and apostles was really profound. That tether is made possible through making and keeping covenants, which we do in the very temple worship that was restored.
Great work on the book, no matter what the skeptics say.
Mine is on its way! So excited!
Since it's Halloween season I heard that this video was too scary for evangelicals to watch. It's so scary that after evangelicals watch this video they sleep with the door open to make sure the lost scriptures dont show up!
@@THE_KlNG 😂😂😂
Lol😂
This was a feast for the soul AND the intellect!! Thank you both!
For me, this puts new light on the statement "I told the brothern that the Book of Mormon..."
That's what I was thinking about!
I love all these discussions. I see Jonah on ward radio, and a number of other channels making complete sense (especially when he talks Star Wars) and I'd love to see him sit down with Hello Saints' Paster Jeff and go through all this with him. Maybe do some good in his circles.
Holy cow, what a great conversation
I’ll be honest, didn’t know what to think of the book, after this watch I will 100% be reading it
I have long suspected something like this, but have not had time to pursue the research. Thank you for doing the work - I can’t wait to read it!
Jonah, I love your book! I've gained so much insight by opening my mind to other traditions, cultures and beliefs. Your ability to find the links between the apocryphal and what would be in the "brass plates" is amazing! You mentioned that you read apocryphal books in your spare time. Have you read The Sacred Book of the Nemenhah? I would love to know your thoughts on that record.
Just received my copy in the mail. Thank you, Jonah!
Thank YOU, Joanna!
I am currently reading "The Key to the Keystone" how the Apocrypha texts unlock The Book of Mormon's Brass Plates by Jonah R Barnes. It's brilliantly written and actually a lot of fun to read. Jonah has a great personality and sharp mind. Thank you for this fantastic book. I am only on page 112. It's wonderful that you have done this wonderful research and taking the time to share it with the 🌎🌍
Loved this! I will be buying the book. As a related note, I recently saw a video of a Chinese Christian reading Chinese records from about 2500 BC that are almost identical to Genesis. The Evangelical hosting the video was so excited that the Chinese had "scriptures" from the same origin as the Jewish ones, and I had to just shake my head. 😂
Hilarious that these Evangelicals would be excited about a Chinese Christian sharing similar stories but not Joseph Smith bringing forth the Book of Mormon and the Native American’s connection to Israel.
I love getting to explore these ideas and I love you guys!
This is beyond fascinating! Can't wait to get the book!
Personally, the plates of brass from BOM passages sound like the Hebrew Bible except it stops at the reign of king Zedekiah and contains other prophets, like Zenos, Zenock, and Neum (1 Ne. 5:11-13; 1 Ne. 19:10; 1 Ne. 13:20-23). I ordered the book and look forward to analyzing it.
This is such a great discussion from two brilliant minds.
We are so blessed to have the Book Of Mormon
💪🏻
The world has the Book of Mormon, but we're the ones who accept it as scripture.
I would change "blessed" to "biased". ^^
@@sholeetunes silly comment.
@@hrv4908 No, it's not.Sorry, but the Book of Mormon is not inspired from heaven. It is full of errors and contradictions and most likely pure fantasy. Sorry, but you have fallen into the trap. Have you ever wondered why so many people leave the church? And now digging up apocrypha out of sheer helplessness to find another "truth" is pretty the wrong way. No offense, but valid criticism.
Awesome video Jacob and Jonah!!!
Fantastic episode!! And I love that intro to the show!!
I didn't know you were in Reno. I'm in Fallon now but born and raised in Reno. Maybe I'll run into you at the temple someday
I cannot WAIT until my copy arrives!!!!
15:25 "What were the competing traditions of early Christianity?" - Excellent question!
Yeah Jonah welcome to Nevada we love our Desert. Great interview
Wait, Jonah is in Nevada?
@MichaelGMoney the interview was in or near Reno
Just bought two copies of the book. One for me and one as a gift. Can't wait to read it! Thanks for sharing all of your research!!
Thank you so much for giving my book a chance! I hope you like it!
I do hope the church embraces the Nag Hammadi codex and these early versions of Christianities of 100Ad to 350ad when Nicene Council started to encode the universal view of Christianity from the eastern Roman Empire perspective.
The great apostasy was a foundational concept but I feel like it was reduced in the recent years by apologists.
Gnostic thought is varied and falls on both extremes but Mormonism is very Gnostic in its core. The secret knowledge (endowment) taught in secret places(temples) for salvation is a Gnostic concept to provide members the knowledge to transcended past the angels that stand as sentinel guarding heaven (Brigham young in JoD). This is similar to Gnostic passing the archons.
I mean no disrespect. I’m saddened to see the church drift into more alignment with the Protestants who do not see Mormonism as Christians due to the differences in godhead and the Nicene creed but I see this as the great apostasy.
Jonah is the man!!
What a sigma thing to say ;)
@@jonahbarnes5841 i see what you did there lol!
The key to the keystone is of course Moroni 10; 3-5. When followed properly all the rest falls into place.
Jonah is doing verse 3.
Blimey! I'm not a very good scriptural reader, apart from the oft quoted chapters of the Book of Mormon to use in lessons etc, but this podcast has opened up my curiousity and need to understand the scripures more competely, taking them more seriously and expand my understanding. I've ordered The Apocrypha (101 books ditions, as well as the 16) on Kindle because there are various versions, but will start with the basics first! I've also ordered Jonah's book which will be a guide. Thank you so much!
I want to order Jonah's book but my country is not on the list. I'm from the Philippines. Is it available on Amazon?
What you described in this interview clearly outlines Jacob 5 and the Allegory of the tame and wild Olive trees.
New sub thanks ❤
Mind-blowing and enlightening insights and information! Love this! Thank you for sharing.
As times goes by, the lord will show more evidence of the truth! Thanks for taking the time for helping so many understand these things.
Along the lines of Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon, Jacob, would you consider reading and interviewing Jonathan Neville and James Lucus regarding their book, " By Means of the Urim and Thummim; restoring Translation to the Book of Mormon"?
Can't wait!! Preordered mine a while back and it should be here soon. Looking forward to it!
How can I listen to the audiobook?
Its a very readable book. Could have easily made it boring and monotonous. But its entertaining
Thank you, Brad! This is a very kind thing to say.
Very interesting and enlightening. Thank you.
As an elementary teacher, I can confirm you've become a meme.
A book may sound crazy, but things are rarely what they seem. For one thing, we tend to think something unfamiliar is crazy while overlooking what we are familiar with and accept without a second thought something that isn't substantially different. Secondly, it overlooks code. Think about how the book of Mormon, Nag Hammadi codices and the Dead Sea Scrolls were all buried in the ground to save them from destruction. Certain books were allowed into the canon because the authorities did not recognize the inner meaning of text. It was thus buried for its own protection in a similar manner as the plates of Mormon. Some of these other books that you mention sound really crazy are intended that way, as a misdirection. The meaning in the book is beneath the surface. While the those in the canon are hidden behind language that sounds orthodox, some of the others are hidden behind very different language. Think of these as sealed books, but that employ different types of seals. Once the seal is removed, however, the differences will not matter.
Another way a book can be sealed is called cryptography, wherein an algorithm is employed to convert the original message into meaningless text and typically requires the cipher to restore it. A similar concept called steganography is a little more subtle, in which case one text is completely hidden within a different text altogether, along with all signs that there is a hidden message at all. Anyone who sees this other text, say for instance an Egyptian funerary text, would detect no sign that another text remains locked within it, and without the key or algorithm, would have no hope of extracting it even if they knew it was there. We know that cryptography was in use by Cicero in the century before Christ, which matches the proposed composition of these manuscripts, however examples of stenography that hides messages altogether using other than text as a mask was in use in the region as early as 440 BC, with principles peripheral to this topic being discussing in Sun Tzu's Art of War around 500 BC, suggesting some early forms of steganography were employed then. But the earliest known use may appear in the pages of the I-Ching at early as 900 BC or earlier, and thought his makes a great argument that the practice could have been known and used at that time, we also have a God instructing prophets on technologies that the rest of the world is perplexed at. And Considering that these are just further elaborations of the practice of hiding or burying text and for the same exact reason - preservation for a specific time and place in the future, steganography becomes a plausible solution to the Book of Abraham enigma and the Joseph Smith Papyri, and an attractive one because it also explains the creation of the Egyptian Alphabet document.
Now the means of translation is divine power, but the workings of the this operation would be even somewhat mysterious to the translator, as the process requires faith as they receive words, but have to then check those words. In essence, the unknown prophet, either around the time of Christ if current dating estimates hold true, or another time if they do not, by the instruction of the Holy Spirit, either commissioned these burial books or produced them himself, as they would be safe buried in the tomb for a long time to come. The key however, was not handed down, but the gift of translation, like the gift of tongues, and possibly with the help of a Urim and Thummim, is the only means to extract such a code without it. All this information, however, is unknown to Joseph Smith, who does not comprehend these languages with his mind and can only go by the Holy Spirit, though he has become proficient in such translation and has come to enjoy some confidence in the correctness of his work. He sees a scroll and the Spirit whispers the sacred books that it contains, and when he submits himself to the process, the Book of Abraham is what he obtains. He doesn't know but what it is a direct translation from the Egyptian.
And we also know that between Moroni's Charge in Moroni 10:3-5 and D&C 8 & 9 pertaining to knowledge of all things that comes by the Holy Spirit, that studying it out in one's mind and pondering it in one's heart are critical components in this edifying process of expanding one's mind, enlarging ones soul and deepening one's personal connection with God, and by refining this process, it becomes the iron rod that keeps men sure and steadfast, leading to eternal life. We also have Doctrine and Covenants 130:18-19, “Whatever principle of intelligence we attain unto in this life, it will rise with us in the resurrection. And if a person gains more knowledge and intelligence in this life through his diligence and obedience than another, he will have so much the advantage in the world to come.” Joseph and his associates also sought to learn the Egyptian themselves, for it would be wonderful to have that skill available when needed and not only be reliant on the miraculous power of God. Thus they created the Egyptian Alphabet and Grammar, and even attempted to use the divinely obtained translation to reverse engineer the Demotic. It won't work, but Joseph and his friends do not know this, and thus it is an honest enough attempt, and they were anxiously engaged in a good cause, and as it does not appear that they had completed this academic endeavor, we should have no expectation that they had as yet carried this work before the Lord for any revelatory confirmation. This intent was no different than Joseph's effort to also learn Hebrew by studying under a rabbi, which offered greater success, but there were no Egyptologists who could tutor them in the same way conveniently close.
This leaves the texts of Abraham, Mormon and any future analog securely unfalsifiable, which is where the Lord wants it in order to test the faith of his people and ultimately to confound the wise, as he said said many times that it was his intent to do so, to work a strange act and a mighty work and wonder that men will not believe even if one declared it unto them. This is again why the Lord keeps the evidences enough balanced to let those with eyes to see look toward him while those who are wise in their own eyes remain blind, and unfortunately the sacrifice He requires of his prophets is to look like frauds and his Saints like fools in order to let the curtain fall dramatically in the end and reveal to the world how they were tricked by their own pride and ego and devious inclinations. That jarring realization of being wrong after being so self assured is a most powerful and beneficial lesson. But while we who believe recognize this in relation to the original documents of the Restoration, let us not forget these same principles as they apply to new ones being discovered.
Also the Book of Mormon quotes from other prophets writings not mentioned in the Bible also supporting that the Brass Plates had more writings of prophets we don't have nor have knowledge about l.
We get some of the prophocies of Zenos, Zenock, Neum and other prophocies of Joseph son of Jacob as well as a prophocy of Jacob (Isreal).
Zenos could be the same as the prophet mentioned in the Antiquities of Philo. There is much more illusions to the olive tree in Philo.
To better understand things is to first understand some wording. The correct name is Old Covenant and New Covenant. The Old covenant mainly pertains to the promises, blessings and covenants God made with Jacob (Israel) and his posterity. Prior to that the covenants, blessings and promises were unto all for Abraham saught for the blessings of the Father's (except those who were cut off as to being legal administrators of these blessings through holding the rights to the priesthood.)
The New covenant pertains to the covenant God made with Adam in the beginning being a restoration in the days of Christ but being a new covenant unto the house of Israel & also a restoration during Jesus Christ ministry.
Now in our day it is a final or in other words the last time of restoration of all things unto all the children of Adam, where all things will be restored and gathered into one unto Christ. Even to the restoration that all (meaning all lineages of the children of Adam) will have a legal right to the hold and administer in the priesthood to the blessing of all of God's children.
There are many records lost, in fragments, some still hid up unto the Lord to come forth in the day of righteousness in their purity.
Many nations still have parts of that knowledge written in their histories and so forth. I thank God for the restoration of the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ through the prophet Joseph Smith. So much to look forward too. God be thanked through his Son Jesus Christ! 🙏🏽
Nice video brethren. This looks like one book I might just purchase.
I wish your names were in the thumbnail. Gr8 discussion!!
The Key to The Keystone is available in digital format? I live in Brazil and there isn't shipping options for Brazil. Great talk by the way.
This stuff gets me excited!
Can't remember who the quote came from (maybe Neal A. Maxwell), but something about there would be many evidences brought forth backing the truth. I always thought this would be B of M evidence, but I think this definitely qualifies.
Enjoyed the show and I have ordered the book. I tend to agree that modern scholars have misinterpreted Messianic writings that seemed to clearly mention the redeemer because of their predisposition to not believe in prophecy.
One comment though on the absence of any references from the books of Deuteronomy to Chronicles. Alma 52:22 refers to a war strategy that I think is repeated three times in the Book of Mormon that is found in Joshua 8:13. The ruse was designed to entice armies in fortified cities to leave their fortifications. It is possible, if not probable that Moroni got the idea from Joshua. Although no reference is made to Joshua or the Israelites in the story the strategy is exactly that described in Joshua 8:13. Helaman later repeated this strategy two more times to win the cities of Antiparah (Alma 56) and Manti (Alma 58).
I cpver this in my book. I believe he got this strategy from the Book of Oded.
47:53 People tell me I'm full of something ALL THE TIME. Usually an expletive, but sometimes "it" whatever "it" is.
“Our fathers worshipped in this mountain; and ye say, that in Jerusalem is the place where men ought to worship. Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father. Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews. But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
John 4:20-24 KJV
Awesome content! Cool to think about!
Anything that testifies of Christ is exciting!
Great conversation
Please put this on audio formats , cd and AUDIBLE.
Especially AUDIBLE i’m always listening to Audible.
I have getting close to 700 books on there.
Love this!!! Thanks so much 🙏🙏
When will the book be released? I’m in the UK
Wow! This is fascinating. Great work!
30:05 If you read John 4, it seems pretty clear that Jesus was actually saying you don't need to worship in the temple. He said "neither on this mountain nor in Jerusalem", not "both on this mountain, in Jerusalem and wherever else you can build temples." He told the Samaritan woman that God is spirit and believers worship in spirit and in truth. If he had an issue with Jerusalem only model, it seems like an odd response.
I’ve heard Protestants literally say that “the Bible is written by God. What isn’t canonized isn’t written by God.” And then even quote that “don’t take away from these things” verse at the end of revelation, which also appears in deuteronomy. The narrow minded blindness, man… to think that nobody else in history could have been inspired, could have been a prophet… could have had visions or truth… take the antediluvian period for example. Probably about 1500 years of history with a likely rapidly advancing society. We find pyramids, traces of technology, electricity, and giants, megalithic structures that blow our minds, both on land and deep in the ocean, and all we get in genesis is about 6 chapters that span that entire period. To say that nothing could have ever been lost, is … I don’t know what to call it. How can anyone think that?
And then we also find of course, entire civilizations on the American continents that we still know 1% about.
Wow! Loved this.
Amo haberles encontrado... gracias por este maravilloso contenido... un abrazo desde Chile.
Awesome discussion
Mercy and truth appears in Psalms 85 10
Where do we get the audiobook??
Ok now I have to buy the book!
Mormons could be the one part of Christianity that might finally have the spine to speak on the mysteries and the esoteric , ancient wisdom long gatekept
Thanks!!! Love it!
Jonah dragged Greg at CWIC into Star Wars and then did an impression of him at the end. Let’s see what nonsense he does here 😂
Mighty fine nonsense!
NONSENSE LIKE A FOX!
@@jonahbarnes5841 next book. ‘Star Wars and The Book of Mormon: Yoda vs Joseph Smith’. I will be ordering my copy of Keystone soon. Great job
@jonahbarnes5841 just another try at an incoherent Restoration of twisting secondary sources that weren't viewed as Scripture then or NOW.
BTW foxes are smarter !!!!
@@davidjanbaz7728 have you ordered and read the book to make that assessment or are you speaking out of your backside?
Are you saying Judaism and Christianity were originally one and the same? :D
If Jonah could somehow battle test his theories with an author skeptical biblical expert that would get me to buy this book in a heartbeat.
I'm not expert. I'm just a dad who wears crocs and loves the scriptures.
I remember Christ teaching these same principles as well. "Don't believe anything until the theories have been battle tested against an 'author skeptical biblical expert'"
Also… when Christ came to the Nephites… he reminded them that they hadn’t included the story of Samuel the Lamanite in their writings… and instructed them to go back and include it. ❤
I am SO excited to get the book. I preordered but don’t know when it’ll be here yet!
Thank you, Matt! I hope you enjoy it!
That was excellent!
There will be a Kindle edition?
When will this book be available in the UK?
The Book of Mormon also addresses the Deutero-Isaiah theory. In 3rd Nephi Jesus quotes the entire 54th chapter of Isaiah and then says ""great are the words of Isaiah for surely he (Isaiah) spake as touching all things ...." Deutero- Isaiah postulates that chapters 40-66 were written by someone other than Isaiah. That's clearly not what Jesus says,.
I can't stand it when people say, even Jacob here, that Jesus was rebelling against the Jewish leaders. Jesus was incapable of rebelling against them. He was their King and they were rebelling against Him.
He wasn’t rebelling the Jewish leaders at the time were just wrong and has a different religion to Jesus
@@LatterDayChadlike I said. They were rebelling against Him.
Then I guess you'd have a problem saying that Joseph Smith was rebelling against the Christianity of his day?
I get your point, but it's just semantics.
@@jandjhirst words are important. Joseph was restoring Christianity.
@@jandjhirst That concept of "Jesus being a rebel" is the justification that many progressive Christians use to say that Jesus would be the grand marshal of notable pride parades. Its important to denote that Jesus wasn't a rebel. Christ was the law.
Wait, did you say audiobook? Can somebody please let me know where I can get this as an audiobook?
Great interview, I can't wait to read the book.
Balloons: What's with the balloons at ~1:18:07???
How do I get an audio book?
From this we can surmise that Mormon in his writting is what we find in the Book of Mormon, wrote what the Spirit prompted him to write as he abridged the plates. Therefore we have the important doctrines that we need to learn and follow. All this certainly is evidence that the Book of Mormon is true.