@@brugj03 in some sense, I tend to agree. but at least he was VERY (offensively sometimes) honest and that's something. although his running joke on slo-mo running across the road and 3d pop kinda annoying sometimes but some people ACTUALLY need it and want it.
@@muhammadrayhanfirdaus1309 I don`t mean him, i mean everybody else who seem racing toward some kind of redemption. Ridiculous really, if you gather how long this is going on already.
@@brugj03 really sorry for misunderstanding your reply. Agreed on that one, I mean I haven't seen any reviewer roasted the S9 like Kasey. Frankly it's just bad time, with somewhat bad camera (I really like the form factor though, so small), and bad PR problems.
You should make a response video to this video and we can get the photography drama rolling. Let’s spice up the community; together we can. They were totally wrong and I am totally on your side Gerald. Time to get them undone.
Gerald is just trying to hurt his competitors. The reviews were overwhelmingly critical and very detailed and based. I love how he said he "won't be as nice" aka he does exactly what he tried to torch others for. Camera trips serve a purpose to remove rumors, to have experts discuss pros and cons, and that helps not just having the company. Gerald thought he was too cool for school, could go on every trip, and he found out that isn't the case. He's not virtuous here.
there's never been any "discussion" for someone with at least a half of the brain, but thanks Gerald for taking the point to the masses, nice trolling... )))
you mister IPhonedo and Gerald are a beacons of hope in keeping those companies in check. Thank you for exposing insta360's practices. This S9 release impressed me by the sheer number of "Kyoto videos" from even very small channels. They are not the only ones to be fair. On Sony's ZV-E1's event I recall seeing influencers that didn't even care about the camera features they just talked about some random bullet points and straight said "this camera is sick, get one". This is another concerning trend replacing actual testers and reviewers for influencers with followers in the literal sense.
When you shoot videos that are this long it's not in a single take. You have points that you want to put out there and if you relying on memory then you will use fingers or something like that to remember... Who knows he could have taken 20 takes to just bring that one point across. Sometimes I might shoot for 2 hours just to get the intro to a video on the page I want to have it... It's terrible for editing too because you need to rewatch all that tape.
Does putting out a review early help a RUclips Channel? YES. Do some companies shadow ban reviewers for negative reviews? YES. Does this position which reviewers are put in incentivize *some* reviewers to be carful about what they say (depending on how established that reviewer is)? YES -Gerald recognizes this as in issue that "needs to change," its really not controversial imo 😉
Look to the restrictions on gifts in the medical community to understand bias and ethics. Gerald is right. About time someone stated this. I prefer the “I’ve had this camera for 6 months and these are my thoughts” reviews. Most influencers just regurgitate specs on the launch.
@@Roy88772 Why though? I want to know what it's like after using it, not when you first take it out of the box. There's no use in a review after just taking it out of the box.
That’s one of the reasons I like Jared Polin, he’s honest about a first opinion vs after using in the real world for a while. He also actually shows his work. Lots of RUclipsrs never actually show their work.
There's been zero customer service for the last 35 years. There's no manipulation cause they went with the policy of don't speak to the customers. Why do you need a review when every new camera is OBVIOUSLY DESIGNED TO BE an improvement over the last? The public must STOP getting distracted by the manufacturers lifestyle and start thinking like a camera operator and builder of a set or collection with a collection or preservation of photographs. You're supposed to be doing PHOTOGRAPH PRESERVATION REVIEW videos NOT CAMERA JUDGEMENT MATERIALS VIDEOS. YOU capture the light stored objects. Forget about the cameras! Concentrate on your future collections. Sets of cameras. Sets of photographs. Sets of large photographs. Storage cabinets with thousands of images stored in them. Right now, you're bamboozled by the life of manufacturers. They distract you thousands of times and you've wasted decades out of your life worrying about plastic and dials and buttons. You're PATHETIC. YOU'RE a person who's EASILY distracted by the manufacturers lifestyle. You need to stop looking at what they're doing and start looking at what you're doing and go in that direction.
I like to see the reviews of new cameras just to see the latest features. Won’t buy a LUMIX but watched the reviews anyway to see if there are any new attributes. Good for the reviewers if they get free trips as long as they are honest. One of my favorite reviewers did a review on the new camera and did not mention the cold shoe.
7:17 Man, as a photographer watching camera reviews I never used to think about this, big camera companies just felt like faceless corporations. But now as an engineer, I can totally relate to how difficult that is to see your product get ripped apart. However, that kind of brutally honest feedback is the most important information you can get so that you can iterate on the design and fix issues. I have made so many design oversights that I wouldn't have figured out to change if I didn't get feedback (albeit sometimes harsh) from the end users. So not only are those reviews important for consumers to make informed purchasing decisions, but they're also important to the design process. So hopefully those engineers don't take it too personally.
As long as its getting ripped apart fairly! Most people probably work for a camera company at some point because they like photography and cameras, so its more than just EXTERNAL people that are going to test and prod and probe, but companies don't really have a voice externally, thats the biggest power play youtubers have, they can say what they want about a company and the company has to have 40+ lawyers check before sending a hello world email.
Go to the events. Everything you have issues with can be covered by thorough disclosure and a 'impressions' - 'review' structure to the content like one of my favourite reviewers, Flossy Carter. Do initial impressions at the event then follow up with a real review of the retail units.
It's one of the things that I like that Gerald, Chris and Jordan do well, of distinguishing an "early look or preview" when press event takes place, and only after final product gets released and proper time is spent to use it, the final review comes out.
do what you want to do. It is your business and how you operate your business is up to you. All this self flagellation is really getting old. One RUclipsr came out with a video and everyone is hurrying up to flog themselves over the reviews. Truth is most of us couldn't possibly care less. Most reviews give a couple nuggets of info, most also have an element of entertainment and none should be the singular datapoint for purchasing any piece of gear. I think a lot of RUclipsrs are really taking themselves too seriously and inflating their own importance. It is simply not a big deal.
Who are you calling out and who are you defending? Tony and Chelsea are giving feedback from personal experience and the go out in the field using gear unlike Gerald. Gerald is the one that was banned from the Lumix event and he went after Lumix and the RUclipsrs that went to Japan. Are you defending that scammer?
No one cares how many color boards Gerald films he has no real world professional experience and it shows when he reviews cine gear. No professional values anything that Gerald says.
@@contentm3893 scammer? He told that he could create this video in the past but he didn’t do it because of brands. Yeah, they giving shit feedback from 10 minutes with camera and didn’t see any flaws because people maybe don’t buy it and brands will be sad. They are scammers.
@@contentm3893 I was saying everyone needs to do what they do best for their business and not get tied up in knots over what someone else said. Since the one guy posted a video about the trips and pressure to make positive reviews, there have been a number of videos posted from various accounts either defending the practice or calling those who accept trips to press events shills. At the end of the day, all the bigger channels who get invited are running a business and need to make decisions which are best for their business. No need to justify it, no need to beat yourself up over it, no need to beat someone else up over it. I wasn't attacking anyone specifically or defending anyone specifically and I won't be baited into calling out names. At the end of the day, people need to operate their business as they see fit. Customers (viewers and sponsors) will be the ultimate judge if those decisions were right or wrong.
Gerald U. was spot on. This whole Panasonic S9 show by those who were wined and dined in Osaka really opened my eyes. Even people I have until now held in high esteem, and who I thought to be credible. I won't name names. The S9 is so lame and crippled. And I am a Panny Boy user and somewhat of a fan.
Gerald was not spot on. Mostly because he's the Real Problem. The very BRAND Gerald supports the most has been FRONT and center at doing exactly what he claims to be Wrong. Even more so with those that Review Sony products.
Gerald has been wined and dined from Sony for the longest time. That’s why Gerald has nothing better to say about Blackmagic, Canon, Panasonic, Fuji, or Nikon compared to his Sony reviews…. Check out all of Gerald’s reviews of other cameras (any brand other than Sony) and then look at Gerald’s Sony reviews. Totally Sony bias lol
Personally, I dont think its an issue. Its marketings job to get people excited for a camera. And just because they didnt invite Gerald, doesnt mean that the people they invited have lower morals. Maybe they just thought, it woulnt appeal to him, but it would appeal to others. For example, if I review toys. I love the more Transformers, but am really critical of Transformers that dont transform. Would hasbro be wrong to exclude me from their event showcasing non-transforming Transformers? I dont think so, because its not meant for me... even though there are plenty of people that will enjoy it.
I appreciate channels that give you ALL the pros and cons of a camera in different use cases, with real world examples of what can be achieved. Then leaving it to you to weigh those up and decide what will work for you. From a very satisfied M43 user.
This is interesting for me, but I only ever buy used cameras that have been thoroughly tried and tested. Why would I need anything more for portraits and people photography.?
A good video discussion by Tony and Chelsea Northrup. Some observations: • Consumers are NOT dumb idiots. They watch camera review videos and take them with a pinch of salt. That is why the former Olympus Camera Division failed and had to wind up despite having torrents of flattering RUclips reviews by dubious unwholesome characters. • Sometimes the flattering reviews are used by the manufacturer companies to bluff themselves and their parent companies - that all is wonderful. That the useless camera product they made, that no one wants - is the best in the world and will be in high demand. • Who does not want to be invited for a VERY luxurious and EXPENSIVE trip halfway around the world to an exotic location to do a "camera review"? It probably costs US$100,000 per person to pay for the First Class air tickets, top grade Presidential hotel suites for 1 week, wining & dining at 3 star Michelin restaurants, etc.... • It is basically a pre-paid Bribe with no pre-conditions. So you better say good things about the camera. • If you do, then you can look forward to future similar Reward Trips every 1 or 2 years. • If you condemn the camera, you will be disbarred and not be invited in future. All other manufacturers will stay away from you. Suddenly the honest camera reviewer becomes an Outcast. He learns that honesty has a terrible price. • The other camera reviewers will be frightened by the punishment imposed on the honest reviewer - and they learn to grovel. • When camera manufacturers do this big budget camera review events - it is a marketing exercise. It is Quid Pro Quo.
Really enjoying this discussion. I watched Gerald's video and Dan Watson's. Thanks guys! Those press trips are more entertainment for me. I like seeing you guys meet up with other fellow RUclipsrs. Getting a first look at a new product I’m interested in is also cool. I still remember the EOS R press trip. I was so excited, I had been waiting for that camera for so long. The videos are fun to watch but that’s it.
Something I would see as less biased would be if the reviewer recognized that not everyone has the same needs. I do literally not ONE SECOND of video, I only take still photos. But when I watch reviews, half of them are preoccupied with video capabilities, sound, etc. There also seems to be some sort of fetish about faster lenses these days. I shoot from 5.6 to 11 nearly all the time, so why do I need a 1.2 ? Anyway, if I ever start reviewing my angle will be: if you do video, don't even watch my review, as I know very little about it. But on the rest of it, I can indeed point out that while a given camera or lens is ideal for me, it might not be for someone who primarily shoots sports or wildlife, while noting that I am going to be shooting architecture on a tripod using manual focus meaning I also am rarely concerned with bokeh.
Gerald definitely sparked a larger conversation...how many people have been able to make a video about this since his video launched!? Pre-production vs. Production...honestly, I really want to hear the review of the camera/lens/gear that I can go to the store and buy right after watching the review. Hearing about 'glitches' that won't exist when I can get my hands on the camera are a bit moot. Do I like watching press event videos...kind of, it depends on the information. It also depends on the conditions, if the company 'stacks the location' like Tony said, am I getting a 'real world' view of the camera that I might purchase?
You're doing this so we (the consumers) can make informed choices regarding the equipment we buy. It's not for the manufacturers, it's for US. Keep it up.
Great and timely video. I was particularly concerned recently with the release of the new Panasonic Lumix S9. Very few reviewers were honest about it and pointed out all its flaws and shortcomings. The majority, even those whom I had previously trusted, were all flown out to Osaka in Japan on a free trip and then raved about the camera. Such a poor camera in so many ways and yet most of these reviewers were claiming it was the best thing since sliced bread. For shame. But, you asked the question and my answer is that I would like you to go to these events as yours in one of the channels I do trust.
@@SonyAlphaVisions difference is there was a legal obligation to disclosure they were given free Airfare and possibly accommodation. They didn’t do that.
Not sure what google has done, but I'm now getting a lot of ads at the beginning of your videos. I thought there weren't supposed to be ads if you had your own sponsor.
It’s hypocrisy by Gerald! Anything that has an “opinion” is by definition biased, the whole reason we “Follow” or subscribe to a creator, is either because we value their perspective or simply are entertained by their style. This is not journalism, so hypocritical for someone to bash people that attend press events for being biased, when their take on the matter is biased due to an experience with a brand, bias is bias positive or negative.
I didn't see bashing. They brought up aspects of press events that lend themselves to bias affecting the reviews. Using themselves as examples. That's not what hypocrisy is.
Non sense. Having an opinion and being biased are two different concepts. You're confusing bias and inaccuracy/incompletness. Ignoring negatives because you want to look good to a brand that has invited you has nothing to do with ignoring a negative just because this was not tested or you didn't feel it was a negative
Sometimes I wait for a new camera, and maybe even preorder. So I want at least "first impression" reviews from the people I trust and can relate to. Then there can be a more in depth review later.
But thats exactly the problem right? You want fully fleshed out reviews you can trust. Not pre-production previews that have been rushed out as soon as the embargo is lifted after only spending a couple hours with the camera. Especially when so frequently more issues are found after pre-orders are placed when more rigorous reviews and testing are completed. The problem isn’t that the reviewers aren’t trust worth. The problem is the hype bubble that is created by the wave of mostly positive videos all hitting at once on embargo day.
16:50 The issue there with "personalized training" is that it serves to obscure bad UX/UI design, which is absolutely something that you as a reviewer *should* discover and flag. If the problem you were having was because you didn't know about some obscure flag or setting buried in the menu somewhere, it's still on them, and it's still a bug - it's just a menu/UI design bug rather than a code bug. UI should *make sense*.
Anyone that actually been using Cameras over the years can find VALUE in ANY type of review. Those they can't are usually the very same people that claim Gear Doesn't matter. So they won't see any value regardless. We already know that the first reviews will just be anyone's first impression and if a person can't figure that out, well just maybe that person won't figure much more in a deeper review. Regardless of whom makes it.
No that's just RUclips reviews. Most are biased and lazy. People in the real world will order what they want based on what the new camera offers. The sheep are swayed by negative biased reviews. Look at the Gh7 reviews. Everyone acts like that camera is better than the FX30 or Canon R5 but it is not. No one should invest in M4/3 unless they already have one. That's not the story that anyone will talk about.
all i want is the perfect camera ...all i want is the perfect camera ... yeah im trolling but hey you made some good points but my issue is people tend to react when some on e makes a good point critting the camera then everyone change there tune...so this 4th wall stuff should be up front or reviews become an echo chamber
Some camera equipment takes a long time to ship after it is announced, in that case early reviews are invaluable in helping me decide if I should preorder one. I can take any review in the light of under what circumstances it was done, so long as the reviewer discloses that. So yes, please continue doing early reviews whenever you have the opportunity.
One of the more refresing snow ball topics going around in the camera community as of late. I loved GU's take and i love this one as well. You've both inspired me to put my thoughts down on video! Cheers!
Bias isn't just ignoring what's bad because you think you should. But the whole experience takes you to a positive state of mind where you will feel lighter and more positive because you will feel so good and happy during these trips. The same can be said if the paid trip is a horrible experience, you're likely to be more negative in your review. This is basic human nature. Therefore, on these trips there should be no reviews, only FIRST IMPRESSIONS.
As a small channel I do struggle with getting gear to review. I have reached out to some camera retailers to no avail. I used to buy all the gear I tested and reviewed but now in retirement I simply can't afford to buy gear. Is my voice an less valid/valuable than bigger channels that both can afford gear and get gear loaned to them? .
@@PhotoGearFun Its not necessarily meant to directly create purchases, they keep the idea of the company fresh. The first sodas people think of are usually coke and pepsi even though those people might not even buy them. Since most people don't buy cameras often, they will start their search with the ones they are familiar with or have heard the most about, more views = more brand loyalty. If the product is less expensive like an accessory then an add is more likely to result in a direct purchase. If Panasonic sent the S9 to only you instead of any of the other RUclipsrs I would never have known it was released. It costs them more because now they have to ship / retrieve more cameras than before but without the same return. While your opinion might be just as credible or provide a better analysis, it is literally "less valuable" as you put it, for a company
Reviewers be like: "Brand flew me out to Tokyo/Hawaii, paid for a 5 star hotel, fancy meals, and premium photo opportunities but im unbiased, so believe my review. Oh yeah i wasnt paid money so no need for a totally unnoticable sponsored video tag.
I think the viewers are intelligent enough to realize that a 'first look' after a press event will just highlight the key spec of the new camera, and the 'long term review' will be far more useful and accurate. Also, reviewers shouldn't presume that their audience will do what they're told by the reviewer. For example you guys were very negative about the Nikon Z7 when it first came out, but I listened to your criticisms and bought the camera anyway, and was very happy with it. So there's a lot going on when someone decides to buy a camera. Reviews are just like a relatively knowledgeable sales assistant. They help you get the info you need to make a decision.
The camera industry needs a kick. They haven't just failed badly, they've failed by 90%. In Australia, there hasn't been any customer service in the last 35 years. Obviously the factory doesn't give a stuff cause they should have fired every retailer involved and started a fresh. ZERO customer service for 35 years has resulted in a total disaster. Cameras are virtually worthless as a result. I was a professional photographer hired by Kodak themselves and I hadn't bought a camera for my entire life. The industry is only selling to 5% of the potential customers out there. Lunatics selling to Lunatics. Retail hasn't got a clue who's walking into their stores. This is what a dead industry looks like. They can go down to selling only to 1% of the population.
The part I enjoy the most about those pre production reviews is sometimes the the prospective the specific reviewer brings to that product helps drive my initial hype and follow through. If it was not for those reviews I would stumble upon the next model rather then anticipate a specific fix or advancement I have come to settle for in an older version or model.
This was a thoughtful discussion. I would prefer you get your hands on a final production product. That's what I would buy at the store. If I need early information, I can just look at a spec sheet or a press release for basic information. The value of these reviews is to learn how well (or not) a given set of features performs in real life. You can't get that from a press release. In short, it's best to wait.
I'm glad you guys were professional in regards to Gerald. My question is would his video have been made if he was invited to the Lumix event. And also it's RUclips, we're going to have "critical reviews" aplenty, I'm happy for some positivity and fun that a press trip brings. Excitement is underrated in some of these scenarios.
This is probably a genius move of Panasonic. Maybe inadvertently. Huge hype and controversy and everyone is talking about Panasonic who do in fact make some brilliant cameras but they seem to underdogs, probably due to bad autofocus which they have now fixed. It also makes people think about all these reviewers which seem to not really pay as much attention to Panasonic over some of the other manufacturers. I think the S9 has some cool properties. Panasonic's IBIS is brilliant. It's full frame so quality of video and photos will be high. The LUTS make it easy for non technical people to create looks. People will be able to easily create great looking photos and videos with this camera that would have been much harder a few years ago.
The only issue is how to label those videos where the RUclipsr is offered a trip to review some camera ... It should state clearly it is a sponsored vidéo by that maker ... Simple 😉
There's a definite difference between "we will fly you on this press junket" and "we will pay you to create sponsored content" Especially if (and I can totally see this happening, being self employed myself) its costing them money to be there... If I got invited to go to a conference somewhere, and my hotel/travel/food was covered, if I'm taking time off work to do that, then even if you take the entire cost of the experience, I'm probably loosing money... I'm not saying they should not disclose the trip being paid for, I just think its disingenous to say its the same as sponsored content...
@@angeloplayforone To comply with guidelines and maintain transparency, the RUclipsr should: Disclose the provided flight and hotel in the video, verbally or in text. Use RUclips’s built-in tools to mark the video as containing a paid promotion or sponsorship. Be clear and transparent about the nature of the relationship with the camera maker, regardless of the existence of a contract or obligation to publish. These practices are in line with FTC guidelines and RUclips policies, ensuring viewers are informed about any potential influence on the content.
Holy cow. I have to do a portrait shoot for our short film promo tomorrow. So I was brushing up and what kept popping up.. 10 yr old Tony & Chelsea videos, man y'all have come a long way, lol.
Great video as always. I agree with the comments that reviewers should make it absolutely clear they've had their travel, accommodation and meals paid for. After that, we as viewers can make our own judgement on the content. Keep up the good work guys.
I always take camera corporate sponsored events with a 'grain of salt'. I understand the dynamic between the attendee and company. I do like the events though as a hands on first look, but I always wait to purchase until I've seen several detailed independent reviews, including your channel as one. As a result, I never pre-order. BTW, I wish you would put your Columbo jackets on and find out why it is taking Canon so long to ship their lenses. It was last November that Canon released a few RF 200-800 lenses but they still have not shipped in any quantity. My GUESS is that they are releasing a handful before they have completed their manufacturing scale up, in order to string people along (that may sound negative but I simply go by my gut instinct and call it like I see it).
I would still go and write your review and just say as tested and then after release you can check and see if all is still the same and update you review accordingly……
I think the events and coverage of them still has value. Both entertainment value and a preview value. But I think it's key to be transparent about what they are, to acknowledge potential biases, and to understand that they're not really valid as standardized unbiased reviews. I think probably the best solution would be to separate the terminology of a preview and a review, if you're getting to see a camera early at one of these events it's a preview, if you've gotten to live with it for awhile and use it in your home setup scenarios then it might be valid as a review. And I would say if you're wanting to be taken seriously as a channel you should offer both if it is economically feasible. Give me the tech circus, then give me to the three/six month review, you can even reference back to the pre-launch events in your reviews and see if they've upheld their promises. In most other industries it's valid to make these distinctions, why should it be any different with camera gear.
Excellent discourse, as usual! As a loyal follower from the early days, I think the yin and yang of the dialogue and viewpoints between the both of you have continued to get better, even if some of the foolish manufacturers don’t want to hear it. 😩 But we do need beta testers.
It happens that I buy a product purely based on rumors. I order it as soon as the link is available and then I start to view the reviews. If the reviews are really bad, then I might cancel my order. However I sometimes also buy something that is released a while back. In that case I base my decision more on the actual option and use of the experts. A few months back I bought my first video camera, the FX-3, and my opinion was not based on a single review but I know a lot of people use this camera a lot and love it for their daily work. That tells me more than a review of 15 minutes.
The absolute first thing that should be included in the review is THE PRICE. If your budget is $1000 no point in you watching 2/3 of the way through a video only to find the item is $5,000. On the other hand, if you're just interested in the 'thing' and have no intention of buying, putting the price first isn't an issue.
eh... Pro's are often using gear that works well enough but isn't ideal. They often learn to workaround limitations and they'll stick with a brand for their entire career even if another brand might produce better results.
@@TonyAndChelsea Maybe for pros the reason is durability over results? My cameras would likely produce the same results as a pro camera but the build quality is not the same.
The solution to the dilemma seems simple: Just put out both a "first impression" video from the event along with affiliate links for those that buy everything day one and then a "X months later" video (with X>=3) for the sane among us that want a thorough review of a production model and will not buy before a product has either proven itself or initial issues ironed out.
The reviews where all the photography channels talk about a product at the same time can't be taken seriously. I want reviews from someone that has been using the product for a while. I'm currently researching the Z8 and trying to figure out if it's truly better after the update. I disregard the older everyone did them at the same time reviews. I set the search for the last week or month to avoid those original reviews. I'm still using my D500, D750 and D850. Why does my computer flip the D850 vertical images sideways and change the lighting but it's doesn't do it with the other cameras. The settings all seem the same in each camera and the computer program should treat them all the same. It makes the picture culling process slower and frustrating with the D850 images.
In the case of the Hasselblad X2D, I was ready to buy a "system" after the influencer reviews were out. Problem was: No product, camera or lenses were avaiable to get. Why do the companies hype a product that you can not get. You only get one chance to make a great impression! Did not by the Blad system and I probably never will.
Keep attending events and sharing your insights, highlighting both the positives and areas for improvement. After first edition, review and compare findings. Consumers need this information to make informed decisions. if the company complains or bans you, it indicates they may not be worth purchasing from.
Any chance you could review the Nikon Zfc at all? I always value your reviews the best and am considering purchasing one. I would appreciate your thoughts....
Great video as always. Y really trust you guys. The feeling of trust I had it before this video. As a viewer one can feel if the reviewer is bieng honest or not. I have always felt you guys are. Thank you
You should go. It helps trouble shoot early versions. Simply point out that the review is based upon the circumstances under which it is made, and then follow up with production camera real world review
I don't even read or watch reviews anymore lol. I just get what I want. You can't buy a bad camera these days...(the truth is I can't afford the latest, I swear they keep getting more expensive for not a lot better than the previous model). I found it hilarious when the X100IV was released, ebay was flooded with X100V within minutes. Yet that camera is more than adequate for everyone. I just don't understand it. I just been shooting with old film cameras now 🤣
Yes, this is also one problem with Gerald channel. What is the real live gain if the camera shoots more dynamic range that a human eye can distinguish? That makes that technical feature irrelevant. As Prof. Dr. Gerald undone is not a photographer or videographer he cannot talk about usability. As Robin Wong said in his blogspot about this issue. If you are a professional photographer it should not take a lot of time to see if a camera is good or bad.
Great discussion on the topic. I think you guys should go to the events because a lot of us trust your reviews (if we agree or disagree with the assessment).
As long as you disclose the fact that you are paid to review than all is fine, the problem is with reviewers who somehow forget to mention it. Just to be clear being given a flight, food and hotel, is being paid.
These guys are advertising for a corporation. But I don’t care. I’ll still watch. Any gymnastics to be defensive is silly. Anyone watching these videos knows the videos are biased. Who cares. Consumers have to make decisions and if we want objective views we can buy consumer reports. Not watch RUclipsrs getting free perks telling us they’re unbiased 😂
Some good points re pre production, empathy with engineers etc. But my impression is that all reviews I saw pointed out all the negative points (at least they seemed to!) and anyway, who actually buys a camera based on one or two reviews?
I personally like to review cameras and mics after I’ve thoroughly used them in real world situations. Rode just sent me the Wireless Pro for review and it’s been good so far, but there are details that needs to be worked out. However, Rode has always been great about taking my criticism and did not limit me on how I can test their products. They just send me gears and let me go do what I do. Some gears they sent, I didn’t even review because there were so many reviewers saying the same thing I was going to say. So, I just sent Rode a Google Doc with all my notes and comments.
Timely subject. I was thinking of this subject very recently as a certain camera maker flew a bunch of reviewers I follow to an exotic location and was provided early access to a new camera. Interestingly, I noticed all of those reviewers basically gave negative reviews, and none recommended the camera.
This was a great discussion. Personally, I hate reviews not done on production equipment. BTW, whatever happened to your review of the Nikon Z f? 😉 I bought one after deciding to get back into photography after about a 30 year hiatus. I'm loving it and having a blast! One thing for certain, these "new-fangled" mirrorless digital cameras aren't your father's old film camera! 🤣
I only review Camera equipment I use myself. Which at the moment is Sony. I have just swapped my A1 for an A9III for evaluation and learning the latest tech. I am starting to see that the reviews on the A9III were all short term and focus on the 24.6 MP sensor . I am starting to believe the A9III is better than the A1 at least for Birds. Anyway work in progress or just wishful thinking immersing myself in the A9III now !
You could say that there is no positive or negative reviews. If you brought out a video saying you hated the new Z6iii because it didn't have an EVF it might sound like a negative review but I would still pre-order it because having no EVF is important to me. I'm interested in your opinion but it's not my opinion and you've still provided me with the information I need for my buying decision.
I went to a famous restaurant in Vegas and they kept me waiting for awhile. I complained and they comped all the drinks for my party and any dessert we wanted. I didn't leave a bad review. Bias can be persuaded/bought and it's a part of life. Not controversial at all.
I seek various opinions as soon as they’re available. If you review something 6 months after launch then, it’s a different genre altogether these days. I like “long term reviews” of a user’s experience. Or in late reviewer due to late access case, a non-rushed user experience that is more thorough then launch reviews w the benefit of hindsight.
I don't buy very many things as new. Being the youngest of 7 kids, you become accustomed to "used," or at least "no longer the most recent" tech. I avoided Windows 11 until I built a computer a few months ago for photo editing...with older tech and even a used GPU. I just upgraded to mirrorless and bought a used Z6. I'm willing to wait to buy something until it's been broken in a little. The Z6 has had several firmware upgrades, and for the kind of photography I do, it performs really well, especially for the $500-ish I paid. I didn't watch reviews that were released when it hit the market. I watched reviews from a year later and onward, because I'm more interested in how it's holding up. So, in answer to the question about getting first looks, they don't mean much to me. Yes, first impressions count, but lasting impressions count more, especially for those of us who would rather be impressed than merely wowed.
Gerald's issue with Lumix stems from his lousy review of the GH6. He seemed like he didn't want to do the review. He was not interested in the brand anymore.That was worse than saying negative things about a camera. The review was so bad he got called out immediately after the review.
Yup. And, Lumix pegged him right, but still respected him enough to call him. What a baby. He's just trying to hurt Lumix, content creators, and the public.
It blew my mind how he totally forgets that he's been shitting on their mft system and acts like he was an innocent bystander. Even after all that they seem to have reached out to him to explain why he didn't get invited. They didn't have to do that
Hello and thank you for your nice clips I learn a lot of both of you , I have a question and unfortunately no one answer me can you help me please? I have Sony a7Rv for photography which creative look I have to use? Or which one is good for wildlife photography? Please let me know , thank you so much, ❤ from England
With regard to whether or not I would like for you both to attend more camera press trips, I find myself a trifle conflicted. On the one hand, I appreciate the in-depth reviews you produce from your own research; on the other hand, I also enjoy seeing you both use new products in beautiful locations around the globe. Nevertheless, I must confess that I grow weary of seeing three videos covering one new lens or camera at a time (the preview or first look, official review, and then real world use). I prefer the real world use angle to new products, and, instead of companies flying everyone to the same place, I would suggest a shakeup wherein creators pitch to manufacturers their ideas for showcasing the new product and the company agreeing to facilitate that instead. I think this sort of work is a win-win for brands and creators that keeps partnerships alive while serving audiences something closer to what they want to see from new products.
I like both the pre-release reviews and post-release reviews. I think Phillip Bloom has done this multiple times: he'll revise reviews and iterations (firmware updates) of the gear are released and problems are fixed (or introduced). In the rapid iteration software world we live in, I think this will be the new normal. There will be demand for both reviews. I'm not keen on being a troubleshooting early-adopter, but appreciate those who are. Sneak peaks are nice, but followups on the real-world release and updates are also quite valuable.
I'm willing to wait to watch until you review a production model. if there are pre-production issues, then the review to me is worthless. Great discussion
I don't always love your videos. The quality has always been great don't think I am questioning the ridiculously excellent quality. But I just don't mesh with the delivery from other videos. I really want Chelsea to pipe up more with info. But this video was by far the single most outstanding flow you have had to date. I think it shows that you care more when you dive in like this. It isn't being negative. It is the realism added. The flow was very good. Previous videos seemed like you were just pasting in the information, thinking that comes across as objective as possible. It just comes across as not really interested. This video overcame most of my gripes. Thanks and good work. Anyway I know you don't read this junk anymore so who cares. I mean who am I to you after all. But this video was by far the most interactive between both of you and added meaningful and interesting banter. Good work both of you. Much respect for being human. I've been subscribed for almost the whole time and I bought two of your books.
Love the video! As someone who makes content specifically on RUclips just about Lumix cameras (and went to Japan) It definitely was a camera that most of us creators were confused about at first, but as we used the camera (how it was intended to be used or in scenarios otherwise we would not normally be able too) it made most of us (or at least myself) really love the camera! Granted there is cons to which I mentioned in the video, but I think the sad unfortunate part is that a lot of Creators (including myself) getting unfairly criticized about reviewing the camera. I mean I almost make this a yearly video on my channel about the death of MFT cameras😂 and I still mentioned the cons (including the price point and record limits which is a huge point of this camera which I have a video being released tomorrow specifically just about this alone) but most people just watched Gerlad's videos and after that got posted a lot of comments from the same or similar people are going all over to multiple channels to hate on the people reviewing the camera. I get the camera isn't for most people, but calling out people that you don't know their own integrity I guess is the bummer of this situation. While yes for me (the trip to Japan) was a huge blessing being 23, the youngest creator in Japan (I think) and my first time out of the country. But my channel is and has been only about Lumix cameras for the past 3 years too because I just love their cameras a ton, but I still mentioned the cons, what I think they can fix all in my videos nonetheless because I still want the best for myself, Lumix and most importantly the consumers. Wow sorry long rant 😅 but great video guys, and also ps thanks for helping me pass the FAA Part 107 😉
Matthew, I reacted to you already on your video. Don’t worry I have seen a lot of video most if not all disagreeing with him. Many were from RUclipsrs I don’t follow.
Go to squarespace.com/Chelsea & save 10% off your first website or domain with code “Chelsea"
All I want is a perfect camera... All I want is a perfect camera...
Is it weird that I’m hearing the camera conspiracy theme song?
@@velvetrooster5569 No, it`s just about as weird as hearing a solution from the ones that are part of the problem.
@@brugj03 in some sense, I tend to agree. but at least he was VERY (offensively sometimes) honest and that's something. although his running joke on slo-mo running across the road and 3d pop kinda annoying sometimes but some people ACTUALLY need it and want it.
@@muhammadrayhanfirdaus1309 I don`t mean him, i mean everybody else who seem racing toward some kind of redemption.
Ridiculous really, if you gather how long this is going on already.
@@brugj03 really sorry for misunderstanding your reply. Agreed on that one, I mean I haven't seen any reviewer roasted the S9 like Kasey. Frankly it's just bad time, with somewhat bad camera (I really like the form factor though, so small), and bad PR problems.
Great discussion! 👍
You should make a response video to this video and we can get the photography drama rolling. Let’s spice up the community; together we can. They were totally wrong and I am totally on your side Gerald. Time to get them undone.
Go roast their studio Gerald! :)
Gerald is just trying to hurt his competitors. The reviews were overwhelmingly critical and very detailed and based. I love how he said he "won't be as nice" aka he does exactly what he tried to torch others for. Camera trips serve a purpose to remove rumors, to have experts discuss pros and cons, and that helps not just having the company. Gerald thought he was too cool for school, could go on every trip, and he found out that isn't the case. He's not virtuous here.
there's never been any "discussion" for someone with at least a half of the brain, but thanks Gerald for taking the point to the masses, nice trolling... )))
Stop being so agreeable! Love you.
Tony constantly counting his fingers is what I'm here for :))
you mister IPhonedo and Gerald are a beacons of hope in keeping those companies in check. Thank you for exposing insta360's practices. This S9 release impressed me by the sheer number of "Kyoto videos" from even very small channels. They are not the only ones to be fair. On Sony's ZV-E1's event I recall seeing influencers that didn't even care about the camera features they just talked about some random bullet points and straight said "this camera is sick, get one". This is another concerning trend replacing actual testers and reviewers for influencers with followers in the literal sense.
Gotta keep track of those points 🤚
😂👌🏾
should hire body languange expert on this...
When you shoot videos that are this long it's not in a single take. You have points that you want to put out there and if you relying on memory then you will use fingers or something like that to remember... Who knows he could have taken 20 takes to just bring that one point across. Sometimes I might shoot for 2 hours just to get the intro to a video on the page I want to have it... It's terrible for editing too because you need to rewatch all that tape.
Does putting out a review early help a RUclips Channel? YES. Do some companies shadow ban reviewers for negative reviews? YES. Does this position which reviewers are put in incentivize *some* reviewers to be carful about what they say (depending on how established that reviewer is)? YES -Gerald recognizes this as in issue that "needs to change," its really not controversial imo 😉
and in case of other tech brands, they may even just "ban" you from loans/cooperations.
There is a real conflict of interest
Look to the restrictions on gifts in the medical community to understand bias and ethics. Gerald is right. About time someone stated this. I prefer the “I’ve had this camera for 6 months and these are my thoughts” reviews. Most influencers just regurgitate specs on the launch.
Gerald will be right when he Buys or Rent gear out of pocket. Until then, he is hardly right.
@@natureredux1957Lmao this the second comment I’ve seen from this account. Your dislike and bias is very apparent.
After he has enjoyed all benefits. This is called hypocrisy.
@@natureredux1957Exactly.
@@MrGone60 Bias of what exactly.
I don't think the bias is the issue. I just don't think there is any value in a review from someone who's used a camera for a few hours.
First impression at most from something like that.
@@Roy88772 Why though? I want to know what it's like after using it, not when you first take it out of the box. There's no use in a review after just taking it out of the box.
I don't think there is any value from someone who just read spec sheets :p
@@williamshakespeare9815 exactly. most reviewers have so little time with the camera it's not a real review
That’s one of the reasons I like Jared Polin, he’s honest about a first opinion vs after using in the real world for a while. He also actually shows his work. Lots of RUclipsrs never actually show their work.
I always adore the positive attitude and chill of you two. It also adds a lot of rhetorical objectivity.
Stay loyal to photographers, not camera companies. Don’t let these companies manipulate you…make no mistake, you are being manipulated.
Well being manipulated literally cuts both ways.
But staying loyal to a photographer isn’t being manipulated also ? Goes both ways.
There's been zero customer service for the last 35 years.
There's no manipulation cause they went with the policy of don't speak to the customers.
Why do you need a review when every new camera is OBVIOUSLY DESIGNED TO BE an improvement over the last?
The public must STOP getting distracted by the manufacturers lifestyle and start thinking like a camera operator and builder of a set or collection with a collection or preservation of photographs.
You're supposed to be doing PHOTOGRAPH PRESERVATION REVIEW videos NOT CAMERA JUDGEMENT MATERIALS VIDEOS.
YOU capture the light stored objects.
Forget about the cameras!
Concentrate on your future collections. Sets of cameras.
Sets of photographs.
Sets of large photographs.
Storage cabinets with thousands of images stored in them.
Right now, you're bamboozled by the life of manufacturers.
They distract you thousands of times and you've wasted decades out of your life worrying about plastic and dials and buttons.
You're PATHETIC.
YOU'RE a person who's EASILY distracted by the manufacturers lifestyle.
You need to stop looking at what they're doing and start looking at what you're doing and go in that direction.
👍💯
I like to see the reviews of new cameras just to see the latest features. Won’t buy a LUMIX but watched the reviews anyway to see if there are any new attributes. Good for the reviewers if they get free trips as long as they are honest. One of my favorite reviewers did a review on the new camera and did not mention the cold shoe.
Good video.
I want both - initial reactions and production reviews, properly labeled.
Camera manufacures often change things after launch. The price may go down, and firmware updates may improve handling capabilities.
7:17 Man, as a photographer watching camera reviews I never used to think about this, big camera companies just felt like faceless corporations. But now as an engineer, I can totally relate to how difficult that is to see your product get ripped apart. However, that kind of brutally honest feedback is the most important information you can get so that you can iterate on the design and fix issues. I have made so many design oversights that I wouldn't have figured out to change if I didn't get feedback (albeit sometimes harsh) from the end users. So not only are those reviews important for consumers to make informed purchasing decisions, but they're also important to the design process. So hopefully those engineers don't take it too personally.
Hi Kyle!! Thanks for the perspective!
As long as its getting ripped apart fairly! Most people probably work for a camera company at some point because they like photography and cameras, so its more than just EXTERNAL people that are going to test and prod and probe, but companies don't really have a voice externally, thats the biggest power play youtubers have, they can say what they want about a company and the company has to have 40+ lawyers check before sending a hello world email.
Go to the events. Everything you have issues with can be covered by thorough disclosure and a 'impressions' - 'review' structure to the content like one of my favourite reviewers, Flossy Carter. Do initial impressions at the event then follow up with a real review of the retail units.
It's one of the things that I like that Gerald, Chris and Jordan do well, of distinguishing an "early look or preview" when press event takes place, and only after final product gets released and proper time is spent to use it, the final review comes out.
do what you want to do. It is your business and how you operate your business is up to you. All this self flagellation is really getting old. One RUclipsr came out with a video and everyone is hurrying up to flog themselves over the reviews. Truth is most of us couldn't possibly care less. Most reviews give a couple nuggets of info, most also have an element of entertainment and none should be the singular datapoint for purchasing any piece of gear. I think a lot of RUclipsrs are really taking themselves too seriously and inflating their own importance. It is simply not a big deal.
Many said it about Gerald.
I have seen a video about this issue where the person mentioned when they chose Gerald as gatekeeper.
Who are you calling out and who are you defending? Tony and Chelsea are giving feedback from personal experience and the go out in the field using gear unlike Gerald. Gerald is the one that was banned from the Lumix event and he went after Lumix and the RUclipsrs that went to Japan. Are you defending that scammer?
No one cares how many color boards Gerald films he has no real world professional experience and it shows when he reviews cine gear. No professional values anything that Gerald says.
@@contentm3893 scammer? He told that he could create this video in the past but he didn’t do it because of brands. Yeah, they giving shit feedback from 10 minutes with camera and didn’t see any flaws because people maybe don’t buy it and brands will be sad. They are scammers.
@@contentm3893 I was saying everyone needs to do what they do best for their business and not get tied up in knots over what someone else said. Since the one guy posted a video about the trips and pressure to make positive reviews, there have been a number of videos posted from various accounts either defending the practice or calling those who accept trips to press events shills. At the end of the day, all the bigger channels who get invited are running a business and need to make decisions which are best for their business. No need to justify it, no need to beat yourself up over it, no need to beat someone else up over it. I wasn't attacking anyone specifically or defending anyone specifically and I won't be baited into calling out names. At the end of the day, people need to operate their business as they see fit. Customers (viewers and sponsors) will be the ultimate judge if those decisions were right or wrong.
Gerald U. was spot on. This whole Panasonic S9 show by those who were wined and dined in Osaka really opened my eyes. Even people I have until now held in high esteem, and who I thought to be credible. I won't name names. The S9 is so lame and crippled. And I am a Panny Boy user and somewhat of a fan.
Gerald was not spot on. Mostly because he's the Real Problem. The very BRAND Gerald supports the most has been FRONT and center at doing exactly what he claims to be Wrong. Even more so with those that Review Sony products.
Gerald has been wined and dined from Sony for the longest time. That’s why Gerald has nothing better to say about Blackmagic, Canon, Panasonic, Fuji, or Nikon compared to his Sony reviews…. Check out all of Gerald’s reviews of other cameras (any brand other than Sony) and then look at Gerald’s Sony reviews. Totally Sony bias lol
Personally, I dont think its an issue. Its marketings job to get people excited for a camera. And just because they didnt invite Gerald, doesnt mean that the people they invited have lower morals. Maybe they just thought, it woulnt appeal to him, but it would appeal to others.
For example, if I review toys. I love the more Transformers, but am really critical of Transformers that dont transform. Would hasbro be wrong to exclude me from their event showcasing non-transforming Transformers?
I dont think so, because its not meant for me... even though there are plenty of people that will enjoy it.
I appreciate channels that give you ALL the pros and cons of a camera in different use cases, with real world examples of what can be achieved. Then leaving it to you to weigh those up and decide what will work for you. From a very satisfied M43 user.
I think the best thing is reviewing early but making it clear that problems could be fixed by production time.
This is interesting for me, but I only ever buy used cameras that have been thoroughly tried and tested. Why would I need anything more for portraits and people photography.?
So willing to wait! There is a lack of considered reviews, but I’ll watch both if you do both reviews. Initial impressions and then an actual review
A good video discussion by Tony and Chelsea Northrup. Some observations:
• Consumers are NOT dumb idiots. They watch camera review videos and take them with a pinch of salt. That is why the former Olympus Camera Division failed and had to wind up despite having torrents of flattering RUclips reviews by dubious unwholesome characters.
• Sometimes the flattering reviews are used by the manufacturer companies to bluff themselves and their parent companies - that all is wonderful. That the useless camera product they made, that no one wants - is the best in the world and will be in high demand.
• Who does not want to be invited for a VERY luxurious and EXPENSIVE trip halfway around the world to an exotic location to do a "camera review"? It probably costs US$100,000 per person to pay for the First Class air tickets, top grade Presidential hotel suites for 1 week, wining & dining at 3 star Michelin restaurants, etc....
• It is basically a pre-paid Bribe with no pre-conditions. So you better say good things about the camera.
• If you do, then you can look forward to future similar Reward Trips every 1 or 2 years.
• If you condemn the camera, you will be disbarred and not be invited in future. All other manufacturers will stay away from you. Suddenly the honest camera reviewer becomes an Outcast. He learns that honesty has a terrible price.
• The other camera reviewers will be frightened by the punishment imposed on the honest reviewer - and they learn to grovel.
• When camera manufacturers do this big budget camera review events - it is a marketing exercise. It is Quid Pro Quo.
Really enjoying this discussion. I watched Gerald's video and Dan Watson's. Thanks guys! Those press trips are more entertainment for me. I like seeing you guys meet up with other fellow RUclipsrs. Getting a first look at a new product I’m interested in is also cool. I still remember the EOS R press trip. I was so excited, I had been waiting for that camera for so long. The videos are fun to watch but that’s it.
Something I would see as less biased would be if the reviewer recognized that not everyone has the same needs. I do literally not ONE SECOND of video, I only take still photos. But when I watch reviews, half of them are preoccupied with video capabilities, sound, etc. There also seems to be some sort of fetish about faster lenses these days. I shoot from 5.6 to 11 nearly all the time, so why do I need a 1.2 ? Anyway, if I ever start reviewing my angle will be: if you do video, don't even watch my review, as I know very little about it. But on the rest of it, I can indeed point out that while a given camera or lens is ideal for me, it might not be for someone who primarily shoots sports or wildlife, while noting that I am going to be shooting architecture on a tripod using manual focus meaning I also am rarely concerned with bokeh.
Gerald definitely sparked a larger conversation...how many people have been able to make a video about this since his video launched!?
Pre-production vs. Production...honestly, I really want to hear the review of the camera/lens/gear that I can go to the store and buy right after watching the review. Hearing about 'glitches' that won't exist when I can get my hands on the camera are a bit moot.
Do I like watching press event videos...kind of, it depends on the information. It also depends on the conditions, if the company 'stacks the location' like Tony said, am I getting a 'real world' view of the camera that I might purchase?
You're doing this so we (the consumers) can make informed choices regarding the equipment we buy. It's not for the manufacturers, it's for US. Keep it up.
Great and timely video. I was particularly concerned recently with the release of the new Panasonic Lumix S9. Very few reviewers were honest about it and pointed out all its flaws and shortcomings. The majority, even those whom I had previously trusted, were all flown out to Osaka in Japan on a free trip and then raved about the camera. Such a poor camera in so many ways and yet most of these reviewers were claiming it was the best thing since sliced bread. For shame. But, you asked the question and my answer is that I would like you to go to these events as yours in one of the channels I do trust.
The thing I noticed with the S9 reviews was the ones I saw didn’t seem to mentioned they got flown to Japan using other people’s money.
@@SonyAlphaVisions difference is there was a legal obligation to disclosure they were given free
Airfare and possibly accommodation. They didn’t do that.
Not sure what google has done, but I'm now getting a lot of ads at the beginning of your videos. I thought there weren't supposed to be ads if you had your own sponsor.
It’s hypocrisy by Gerald! Anything that has an “opinion” is by definition biased, the whole reason we “Follow” or subscribe to a creator, is either because we value their perspective or simply are entertained by their style. This is not journalism, so hypocritical for someone to bash people that attend press events for being biased, when their take on the matter is biased due to an experience with a brand, bias is bias positive or negative.
I didn't see bashing. They brought up aspects of press events that lend themselves to bias affecting the reviews. Using themselves as examples. That's not what hypocrisy is.
@@smaakjeks I was referring to Gerald’s rant
@@9adriano21 Oh shoot, I missed that. That's totally my bad, I'm sorry.
Non sense. Having an opinion and being biased are two different concepts. You're confusing bias and inaccuracy/incompletness. Ignoring negatives because you want to look good to a brand that has invited you has nothing to do with ignoring a negative just because this was not tested or you didn't feel it was a negative
Sometimes I wait for a new camera, and maybe even preorder. So I want at least "first impression" reviews from the people I trust and can relate to.
Then there can be a more in depth review later.
But thats exactly the problem right? You want fully fleshed out reviews you can trust. Not pre-production previews that have been rushed out as soon as the embargo is lifted after only spending a couple hours with the camera.
Especially when so frequently more issues are found after pre-orders are placed when more rigorous reviews and testing are completed.
The problem isn’t that the reviewers aren’t trust worth. The problem is the hype bubble that is created by the wave of mostly positive videos all hitting at once on embargo day.
16:50 The issue there with "personalized training" is that it serves to obscure bad UX/UI design, which is absolutely something that you as a reviewer *should* discover and flag. If the problem you were having was because you didn't know about some obscure flag or setting buried in the menu somewhere, it's still on them, and it's still a bug - it's just a menu/UI design bug rather than a code bug. UI should *make sense*.
Anyone that actually been using Cameras over the years can find VALUE in ANY type of review. Those they can't are usually the very same people that claim Gear Doesn't matter. So they won't see any value regardless. We already know that the first reviews will just be anyone's first impression and if a person can't figure that out, well just maybe that person won't figure much more in a deeper review. Regardless of whom makes it.
Thank you.
@natureredux1957 Whom? Regardless of who makes it. Regardless of whom it was made for.
One of the best reply I found about this issue.
No that's just RUclips reviews. Most are biased and lazy. People in the real world will order what they want based on what the new camera offers. The sheep are swayed by negative biased reviews. Look at the Gh7 reviews. Everyone acts like that camera is better than the FX30 or Canon R5 but it is not. No one should invest in M4/3 unless they already have one. That's not the story that anyone will talk about.
all i want is the perfect camera ...all i want is the perfect camera ... yeah im trolling but hey you made some good points but my issue is people tend to react when some on e makes a good point critting the camera then everyone change there tune...so this 4th wall stuff should be up front or reviews become an echo chamber
Some camera equipment takes a long time to ship after it is announced, in that case early reviews are invaluable in helping me decide if I should preorder one. I can take any review in the light of under what circumstances it was done, so long as the reviewer discloses that. So yes, please continue doing early reviews whenever you have the opportunity.
One of the more refresing snow ball topics going around in the camera community as of late. I loved GU's take and i love this one as well. You've both inspired me to put my thoughts down on video! Cheers!
Bias isn't just ignoring what's bad because you think you should. But the whole experience takes you to a positive state of mind where you will feel lighter and more positive because you will feel so good and happy during these trips.
The same can be said if the paid trip is a horrible experience, you're likely to be more negative in your review. This is basic human nature.
Therefore, on these trips there should be no reviews, only FIRST IMPRESSIONS.
As a small channel I do struggle with getting gear to review. I have reached out to some camera retailers to no avail. I used to buy all the gear I tested and reviewed but now in retirement I simply can't afford to buy gear. Is my voice an less valid/valuable than bigger channels that both can afford gear and get gear loaned to them? .
According to Gerald, you don't matter and he wants to make sure you never get the opportunities he got.
Why should companies spend money on sending stuff to you instead of a channel they are likely to get a return on from the higher reach?
@@SoggyKatnip larger audience doesn't equal a more mobilized to purchase audience plus what does it cost them to lend gear to the smaller channels?
@@adidabax6809 I watch Gerald and respect the success he has had with his channel but I didn't agree with all he said in his video.
@@PhotoGearFun Its not necessarily meant to directly create purchases, they keep the idea of the company fresh. The first sodas people think of are usually coke and pepsi even though those people might not even buy them.
Since most people don't buy cameras often, they will start their search with the ones they are familiar with or have heard the most about, more views = more brand loyalty.
If the product is less expensive like an accessory then an add is more likely to result in a direct purchase.
If Panasonic sent the S9 to only you instead of any of the other RUclipsrs I would never have known it was released.
It costs them more because now they have to ship / retrieve more cameras than before but without the same return.
While your opinion might be just as credible or provide a better analysis, it is literally "less valuable" as you put it, for a company
Reviewers be like: "Brand flew me out to Tokyo/Hawaii, paid for a 5 star hotel, fancy meals, and premium photo opportunities but im unbiased, so believe my review.
Oh yeah i wasnt paid money so no need for a totally unnoticable sponsored video tag.
Did you watch an S9 review? I watched a dozen. Most were not recommending the camera LOL.
Clearly go to the events. I saw Gerald's video but found the reviews useful at the events. They have helped me make a purchasing decision.
I think the viewers are intelligent enough to realize that a 'first look' after a press event will just highlight the key spec of the new camera, and the 'long term review' will be far more useful and accurate. Also, reviewers shouldn't presume that their audience will do what they're told by the reviewer. For example you guys were very negative about the Nikon Z7 when it first came out, but I listened to your criticisms and bought the camera anyway, and was very happy with it. So there's a lot going on when someone decides to buy a camera. Reviews are just like a relatively knowledgeable sales assistant. They help you get the info you need to make a decision.
I love to see you go to these because I like to see people I trust giving the reviews of the gear.
The camera industry needs a kick.
They haven't just failed badly, they've failed by 90%.
In Australia, there hasn't been any customer service in the last 35 years.
Obviously the factory doesn't give a stuff cause they should have fired every retailer involved and started a fresh.
ZERO customer service for 35 years has resulted in a total disaster.
Cameras are virtually worthless as a result.
I was a professional photographer hired by Kodak themselves and I hadn't bought a camera for my entire life.
The industry is only selling to 5% of the potential customers out there.
Lunatics selling to Lunatics.
Retail hasn't got a clue who's walking into their stores.
This is what a dead industry looks like.
They can go down to selling only to 1% of the population.
Is there a Chelsea and Tony podcast? I love the humanistic and technical perspectives you two deliver in an in depth way :)
Oh THIS IS YOUR PODCAST :D keep going and forget about photography for now, until it's back (in x years)
The part I enjoy the most about those pre production reviews is sometimes the the prospective the specific reviewer brings to that product helps drive my initial hype and follow through. If it was not for those reviews I would stumble upon the next model rather then anticipate a specific fix or advancement I have come to settle for in an older version or model.
This was a thoughtful discussion. I would prefer you get your hands on a final production product. That's what I would buy at the store. If I need early information, I can just look at a spec sheet or a press release for basic information. The value of these reviews is to learn how well (or not) a given set of features performs in real life. You can't get that from a press release. In short, it's best to wait.
I'm glad you guys were professional in regards to Gerald. My question is would his video have been made if he was invited to the Lumix event. And also it's RUclips, we're going to have "critical reviews" aplenty, I'm happy for some positivity and fun that a press trip brings. Excitement is underrated in some of these scenarios.
This is probably a genius move of Panasonic. Maybe inadvertently. Huge hype and controversy and everyone is talking about Panasonic who do in fact make some brilliant cameras but they seem to underdogs, probably due to bad autofocus which they have now fixed. It also makes people think about all these reviewers which seem to not really pay as much attention to Panasonic over some of the other manufacturers. I think the S9 has some cool properties. Panasonic's IBIS is brilliant. It's full frame so quality of video and photos will be high. The LUTS make it easy for non technical people to create looks. People will be able to easily create great looking photos and videos with this camera that would have been much harder a few years ago.
The only issue is how to label those videos where the RUclipsr is offered a trip to review some camera ... It should state clearly it is a sponsored vidéo by that maker ... Simple 😉
There's a definite difference between "we will fly you on this press junket" and "we will pay you to create sponsored content"
Especially if (and I can totally see this happening, being self employed myself) its costing them money to be there...
If I got invited to go to a conference somewhere, and my hotel/travel/food was covered, if I'm taking time off work to do that, then even if you take the entire cost of the experience, I'm probably loosing money...
I'm not saying they should not disclose the trip being paid for, I just think its disingenous to say its the same as sponsored content...
It is not sponsored as they did not pay you to make the video. There is no contract with counter prestation.
@@angeloplayforone To comply with guidelines and maintain transparency, the RUclipsr should:
Disclose the provided flight and hotel in the video, verbally or in text.
Use RUclips’s built-in tools to mark the video as containing a paid promotion or sponsorship.
Be clear and transparent about the nature of the relationship with the camera maker, regardless of the existence of a contract or obligation to publish.
These practices are in line with FTC guidelines and RUclips policies, ensuring viewers are informed about any potential influence on the content.
@@GemmaHentsch It is still a material connection that need to be addressed clearly to the audience ... Contract or not
@@yvesleroy5740 All of who went to the S9 has said that before the video. Which one did not do that?
Holy cow. I have to do a portrait shoot for our short film promo tomorrow. So I was brushing up and what kept popping up.. 10 yr old Tony & Chelsea videos, man y'all have come a long way, lol.
We’ve been doing this so long I don’t even remember which videos I’ve made
You are were you are due to honesty. And we value this, and we thanks this.
Great video as always. I agree with the comments that reviewers should make it absolutely clear they've had their travel, accommodation and meals paid for. After that, we as viewers can make our own judgement on the content. Keep up the good work guys.
I always take camera corporate sponsored events with a 'grain of salt'. I understand the dynamic between the attendee and company. I do like the events though as a hands on first look, but I always wait to purchase until I've seen several detailed independent reviews, including your channel as one. As a result, I never pre-order. BTW, I wish you would put your Columbo jackets on and find out why it is taking Canon so long to ship their lenses. It was last November that Canon released a few RF 200-800 lenses but they still have not shipped in any quantity. My GUESS is that they are releasing a handful before they have completed their manufacturing scale up, in order to string people along (that may sound negative but I simply go by my gut instinct and call it like I see it).
I would still go and write your review and just say as tested and then after release you can check and see if all is still the same and update you review accordingly……
I think the events and coverage of them still has value. Both entertainment value and a preview value. But I think it's key to be transparent about what they are, to acknowledge potential biases, and to understand that they're not really valid as standardized unbiased reviews. I think probably the best solution would be to separate the terminology of a preview and a review, if you're getting to see a camera early at one of these events it's a preview, if you've gotten to live with it for awhile and use it in your home setup scenarios then it might be valid as a review. And I would say if you're wanting to be taken seriously as a channel you should offer both if it is economically feasible. Give me the tech circus, then give me to the three/six month review, you can even reference back to the pre-launch events in your reviews and see if they've upheld their promises. In most other industries it's valid to make these distinctions, why should it be any different with camera gear.
Excellent discourse, as usual! As a loyal follower from the early days, I think the yin and yang of the dialogue and viewpoints between the both of you have continued to get better, even if some of the foolish manufacturers don’t want to hear it. 😩 But we do need beta testers.
It happens that I buy a product purely based on rumors. I order it as soon as the link is available and then I start to view the reviews. If the reviews are really bad, then I might cancel my order. However I sometimes also buy something that is released a while back. In that case I base my decision more on the actual option and use of the experts. A few months back I bought my first video camera, the FX-3, and my opinion was not based on a single review but I know a lot of people use this camera a lot and love it for their daily work. That tells me more than a review of 15 minutes.
The absolute first thing that should be included in the review is THE PRICE. If your budget is $1000 no point in you watching 2/3 of the way through a video only to find the item is $5,000. On the other hand, if you're just interested in the 'thing' and have no intention of buying, putting the price first isn't an issue.
the most honest review of a camera is to watch what camera professional photographers use themselves when shooting pictures.
eh... Pro's are often using gear that works well enough but isn't ideal. They often learn to workaround limitations and they'll stick with a brand for their entire career even if another brand might produce better results.
@@TonyAndChelsea Maybe for pros the reason is durability over results? My cameras would likely produce the same results as a pro camera but the build quality is not the same.
I've always been too broke to preorder but enjoy the reviews. Love Gerald and you guys.
Thanks!
The solution to the dilemma seems simple: Just put out both a "first impression" video from the event along with affiliate links for those that buy everything day one and then a "X months later" video (with X>=3) for the sane among us that want a thorough review of a production model and will not buy before a product has either proven itself or initial issues ironed out.
Best photography channel, barring none!
The reviews where all the photography channels talk about a product at the same time can't be taken seriously. I want reviews from someone that has been using the product for a while. I'm currently researching the Z8 and trying to figure out if it's truly better after the update. I disregard the older everyone did them at the same time reviews. I set the search for the last week or month to avoid those original reviews. I'm still using my D500, D750 and D850. Why does my computer flip the D850 vertical images sideways and change the lighting but it's doesn't do it with the other cameras. The settings all seem the same in each camera and the computer program should treat them all the same. It makes the picture culling process slower and frustrating with the D850 images.
They are helpful. But, the choice is up to you. I appreciate your honesty in your reviews.
Why would a reviewer would need to go on a trip when they only run tests in the studio and not in the field? lol
Yes, Gerald is not a photographer or videographer so he needs his studio and cameraman
@@angeloplayforone Right! So what's the problem? It seems like he has beef with Panasonic. lol
In you expect opinion is a high zoom canon Sx70 a good high zoom camera? Thanks
Do the pre review but also mention the downsides even though company says it's a pre production unit
I’ll gladly wait!
In the case of the Hasselblad X2D, I was ready to buy a "system" after the influencer reviews were out. Problem was: No product, camera or lenses were avaiable to get. Why do the companies hype a product that you can not get. You only get one chance to make a great impression! Did not by the Blad system and I probably never will.
Keep attending events and sharing your insights, highlighting both the positives and areas for improvement. After first edition, review and compare findings. Consumers need this information to make informed decisions. if the company complains or bans you, it indicates they may not be worth purchasing from.
Any chance you could review the Nikon Zfc at all? I always value your reviews the best and am considering purchasing one. I would appreciate your thoughts....
Great video as always. Y really trust you guys. The feeling of trust I had it before this video. As a viewer one can feel if the reviewer is bieng honest or not. I have always felt you guys are. Thank you
You should go. It helps trouble shoot early versions. Simply point out that the review is based upon the circumstances under which it is made, and then follow up with production camera real world review
I don't even read or watch reviews anymore lol. I just get what I want. You can't buy a bad camera these days...(the truth is I can't afford the latest, I swear they keep getting more expensive for not a lot better than the previous model). I found it hilarious when the X100IV was released, ebay was flooded with X100V within minutes. Yet that camera is more than adequate for everyone. I just don't understand it. I just been shooting with old film cameras now 🤣
Yes, this is also one problem with Gerald channel. What is the real live gain if the camera shoots more dynamic range that a human eye can distinguish? That makes that technical feature irrelevant. As Prof. Dr. Gerald undone is not a photographer or videographer he cannot talk about usability.
As Robin Wong said in his blogspot about this issue. If you are a professional photographer it should not take a lot of time to see if a camera is good or bad.
Great discussion on the topic. I think you guys should go to the events because a lot of us trust your reviews (if we agree or disagree with the assessment).
As long as you disclose the fact that you are paid to review than all is fine, the problem is with reviewers who somehow forget to mention it. Just to be clear being given a flight, food and hotel, is being paid.
the problem is the fact that it's being called as a review in the first place. it would be named "preview" or "first impression".
These guys are advertising for a corporation. But I don’t care. I’ll still watch. Any gymnastics to be defensive is silly. Anyone watching these videos knows the videos are biased. Who cares. Consumers have to make decisions and if we want objective views we can buy consumer reports. Not watch RUclipsrs getting free perks telling us they’re unbiased 😂
Some good points re pre production, empathy with engineers etc. But my impression is that all reviews I saw pointed out all the negative points (at least they seemed to!) and anyway, who actually buys a camera based on one or two reviews?
I personally like to review cameras and mics after I’ve thoroughly used them in real world situations. Rode just sent me the Wireless Pro for review and it’s been good so far, but there are details that needs to be worked out. However, Rode has always been great about taking my criticism and did not limit me on how I can test their products. They just send me gears and let me go do what I do. Some gears they sent, I didn’t even review because there were so many reviewers saying the same thing I was going to say. So, I just sent Rode a Google Doc with all my notes and comments.
Timely subject. I was thinking of this subject very recently as a certain camera maker flew a bunch of reviewers I follow to an exotic location and was provided early access to a new camera. Interestingly, I noticed all of those reviewers basically gave negative reviews, and none recommended the camera.
It's always funny to see thoughts about someybody's elses thoughts.
Definitely a " we need a video" video to make something easy.
This was a great discussion. Personally, I hate reviews not done on production equipment.
BTW, whatever happened to your review of the Nikon Z f? 😉 I bought one after deciding to get back into photography after about a 30 year hiatus. I'm loving it and having a blast! One thing for certain, these "new-fangled" mirrorless digital cameras aren't your father's old film camera! 🤣
I only review Camera equipment I use myself. Which at the moment is Sony. I have just swapped my A1 for an A9III for evaluation and learning the latest tech. I am starting to see that the reviews on the A9III were all short term and focus on the 24.6 MP sensor . I am starting to believe the A9III is better than the A1 at least for Birds. Anyway work in progress or just wishful thinking immersing myself in the A9III now !
You could say that there is no positive or negative reviews. If you brought out a video saying you hated the new Z6iii because it didn't have an EVF it might sound like a negative review but I would still pre-order it because having no EVF is important to me. I'm interested in your opinion but it's not my opinion and you've still provided me with the information I need for my buying decision.
I made a video about the s9 and got distracted by all this I wish I had spent my time just on the product.
I went to a famous restaurant in Vegas and they kept me waiting for awhile. I complained and they comped all the drinks for my party and any dessert we wanted. I didn't leave a bad review. Bias can be persuaded/bought and it's a part of life. Not controversial at all.
What did you guys do to upset Fuji?
I seek various opinions as soon as they’re available. If you review something 6 months after launch then, it’s a different genre altogether these days. I like “long term reviews” of a user’s experience. Or in late reviewer due to late access case, a non-rushed user experience that is more thorough then launch reviews w the benefit of hindsight.
I don't buy very many things as new. Being the youngest of 7 kids, you become accustomed to "used," or at least "no longer the most recent" tech. I avoided Windows 11 until I built a computer a few months ago for photo editing...with older tech and even a used GPU. I just upgraded to mirrorless and bought a used Z6.
I'm willing to wait to buy something until it's been broken in a little. The Z6 has had several firmware upgrades, and for the kind of photography I do, it performs really well, especially for the $500-ish I paid. I didn't watch reviews that were released when it hit the market. I watched reviews from a year later and onward, because I'm more interested in how it's holding up.
So, in answer to the question about getting first looks, they don't mean much to me. Yes, first impressions count, but lasting impressions count more, especially for those of us who would rather be impressed than merely wowed.
Gerald's issue with Lumix stems from his lousy review of the GH6. He seemed like he didn't want to do the review. He was not interested in the brand anymore.That was worse than saying negative things about a camera. The review was so bad he got called out immediately after the review.
Yup. And, Lumix pegged him right, but still respected him enough to call him. What a baby. He's just trying to hurt Lumix, content creators, and the public.
It blew my mind how he totally forgets that he's been shitting on their mft system and acts like he was an innocent bystander.
Even after all that they seem to have reached out to him to explain why he didn't get invited. They didn't have to do that
I think they can be helpful and, I rely and trust your reviews.
Hello and thank you for your nice clips I learn a lot of both of you , I have a question and unfortunately no one answer me can you help me please? I have Sony a7Rv for photography which creative look I have to use? Or which one is good for wildlife photography? Please let me know , thank you so much, ❤ from England
Just use the standar picture profile and edit to your liking in post
I wanted to point out that if some video title is like "my honest review" - you can TRUST that!
🙂
With regard to whether or not I would like for you both to attend more camera press trips, I find myself a trifle conflicted. On the one hand, I appreciate the in-depth reviews you produce from your own research; on the other hand, I also enjoy seeing you both use new products in beautiful locations around the globe. Nevertheless, I must confess that I grow weary of seeing three videos covering one new lens or camera at a time (the preview or first look, official review, and then real world use). I prefer the real world use angle to new products, and, instead of companies flying everyone to the same place, I would suggest a shakeup wherein creators pitch to manufacturers their ideas for showcasing the new product and the company agreeing to facilitate that instead. I think this sort of work is a win-win for brands and creators that keeps partnerships alive while serving audiences something closer to what they want to see from new products.
I like both the pre-release reviews and post-release reviews. I think Phillip Bloom has done this multiple times: he'll revise reviews and iterations (firmware updates) of the gear are released and problems are fixed (or introduced). In the rapid iteration software world we live in, I think this will be the new normal. There will be demand for both reviews. I'm not keen on being a troubleshooting early-adopter, but appreciate those who are. Sneak peaks are nice, but followups on the real-world release and updates are also quite valuable.
I'm willing to wait to watch until you review a production model. if there are pre-production issues, then the review to me is worthless. Great discussion
I don't always love your videos. The quality has always been great don't think I am questioning the ridiculously excellent quality. But I just don't mesh with the delivery from other videos. I really want Chelsea to pipe up more with info. But this video was by far the single most outstanding flow you have had to date. I think it shows that you care more when you dive in like this. It isn't being negative. It is the realism added. The flow was very good. Previous videos seemed like you were just pasting in the information, thinking that comes across as objective as possible. It just comes across as not really interested. This video overcame most of my gripes. Thanks and good work.
Anyway I know you don't read this junk anymore so who cares. I mean who am I to you after all. But this video was by far the most interactive between both of you and added meaningful and interesting banter. Good work both of you. Much respect for being human. I've been subscribed for almost the whole time and I bought two of your books.
Thanks!
Love the video! As someone who makes content specifically on RUclips just about Lumix cameras (and went to Japan) It definitely was a camera that most of us creators were confused about at first, but as we used the camera (how it was intended to be used or in scenarios otherwise we would not normally be able too) it made most of us (or at least myself) really love the camera! Granted there is cons to which I mentioned in the video, but I think the sad unfortunate part is that a lot of Creators (including myself) getting unfairly criticized about reviewing the camera.
I mean I almost make this a yearly video on my channel about the death of MFT cameras😂 and I still mentioned the cons (including the price point and record limits which is a huge point of this camera which I have a video being released tomorrow specifically just about this alone) but most people just watched Gerlad's videos and after that got posted a lot of comments from the same or similar people are going all over to multiple channels to hate on the people reviewing the camera.
I get the camera isn't for most people, but calling out people that you don't know their own integrity I guess is the bummer of this situation. While yes for me (the trip to Japan) was a huge blessing being 23, the youngest creator in Japan (I think) and my first time out of the country. But my channel is and has been only about Lumix cameras for the past 3 years too because I just love their cameras a ton, but I still mentioned the cons, what I think they can fix all in my videos nonetheless because I still want the best for myself, Lumix and most importantly the consumers.
Wow sorry long rant 😅 but great video guys, and also ps thanks for helping me pass the FAA Part 107 😉
Matthew, I reacted to you already on your video. Don’t worry I have seen a lot of video most if not all disagreeing with him. Many were from RUclipsrs I don’t follow.
I didn’t realize the people who went on that trip were getting flack. I’m sorry that’s happening to you.
@@chelseanorthrup8787 Haven’t you read some of the comments and the tone of the comments this people get on their reviews? Seem to generate hate.
@@chelseanorthrup8787 Oh yeah there is a good amount of creators getting it, but its the internet so what are you gonna do😅🤷🏼♂
@@MatthewDangyou ugh, I know how stressful that can be. I hope it passes quickly