Peavey Prison Labour Allegations
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- Опубликовано: 6 авг 2024
- Peavey are no stranger to controversy with FCC investigations and undercover boss gone wrong but recently it came to my attention that George Lynch of DOKKEN alleged in an interview that Peavey used prison labour to build some of their amps.
Sources
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George Lynch interview
• Determination & Overdr...
FCC Investigation
www.radioworld.com/news-and-b...
Undercover Boss
• Peavey's PR TRAIN WRECK
Meridian school to prison
eji.org/news/justice-departme...
13th amendment
www.archives.gov/milestone-do....
Prison labour pay
www.theguardian.com/us-news/2...
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Timestamps
0:00 Intro
0:21 FCC v Peavey
0:40 Undercover Boss
1:35 George Lynch and Peavey 
Видеоклипы
Just the term “for profit prison” raises so many red flags in my book. The United States prison system is an absolute abomination.
Yup. Unjustifiable.
The guy that owns them really needs the extra money though so it's okay.
It creates an incentive to enslave as many people as possible.
I live in the United states and absolutely agree. For profit prison systems are evil.
dont break the law.
@@Mad_Axe_Man125 Bullshit! All they have to do is burn you for whatever trumped up charges. Maybe you'll be the lucky one. That would be poetic justice.
We have such a rampant private prison problem in the US that I don't realize how bad it is till someone overseas brings it up. Its scary.
It’s almost as if the people who won the Civil War actually intended to enslave the entire country instead of one marginalized minority group.
We don't have a private prison problem, we have a crime problem.
What do you suggest not lock anyone up for crime anymore? You know how many children are killed every week in Chicago alone?
3 replies, 0 visible.
That's a problem too.
@@duderama6750 yep...shitstain RUclips/Google hates free speech
I remember when Peavey Amps were built by educated electronics engineers that were paid livable wages. 😢
When was this?
designed by maybe..but engineers don't work production lines
Back then, your typical HS graduate knew what a college graduate engineer knows today.
@@An2oine No not really, acually the opposite......technology moved so quickly
@@nihilistlivesmatter And they were able to keep up, that is how we kept jobs. . We went to the moon with slide rules and an electronic abacus. Standards are way lower today and are a joke.
Pepperidge farm remembers....
The Peavey corporation has really gone to hell in the last 20 years.
Sadly, the same type of school-to-prison pipeline was going on here in Pennsylvania. A couple judges were sentencing kids to severe punishments in the juvenile justice system for very minor offenses. In exchange, these judges would get kickbacks from the companies running the juvenile detention centers.
They don’t call it Pennsyltucky for nothing.
@@claesvanoldenphatt9972 so true
You know what bothers me about this?
The fact that this is blowing up means people care about ethical labour as long as it's American labour. When people in the far east are worked to the bone, it NEVER makes the news. Literally nobody in the guitar community knows anything about the Cort Guitars (Indonesia) strike. Or how long it took Cort South Korea employees to get their fucking livelihoods back after being laid off en masse for a literally illegal reason.
In fact they will defend to the death their slave made overseas guitars and endlessly mock anyone who had a problem buying one. “Huh, huh, muh buy America, redneck guitars”
Exactly.
I don't live in Indonesia 🤷
@@FortessofShred doesn't matter slave labor is slave labor. Just like our phones batteries are made with slave labor. Must be nice not having a conscious huh?
I remember when they protested at namm. At the time I wished I had the means to start my own guitar company and hire them with a good salary.
Wow George Lynch is kinda based
Also, shout out to KDH for literally not believing how fucked up our prison system is at first.
Or that anyone with a criminal record should be allowed near a job or our gear in a manufacturing environment.
It's hypocrisy to shun a work release program that may have worked on our gear, while playing a gig Friday night to the people most likely to get a DUI on the way home, and ultimately end up on work release.
Or for George to skip over that 99%of his fan base were black sheep.... middle child outcasts, who are far more likely to see some jail time than most of the population.
Just funny to me
Music by messed up people, singing about death and destruction...but if someone who ended up in jail for having a couple too many beers and driving touches our gear, that's where we draw the line.
@@scott6588 my guy, did you watch the video at all? The issue isn't that prisoners are involved, the issue is that the prisoners are not compensated and in the state of Mississippi prisoners can be forced to work as punishment. This ain't work release, it's modern day slavery.
@@shreddyz you're assuming they aren't compensated at all based on George Lynch not getting the contract he wanted, and KDH using it as content.
To my knowledge no inmates or Peavey have ever said they had a partnership.
Even if there was a non disclosure, plenty of former inmates would break that out of spite.
I think it's sad how as a society we make entire decisions based on one jaded musician who's deal fell through....but the corporation and hundreds of alleged inmate workers are silent?
Sorry but no inmate shows that level of loyalty to their former slave driver.
Either the story is way fabricated, or the inmates involved were adequately compensated for the work they performed.
Sad state we as people are in to simply go along with stuff.
Kid Rock shoots up some bud light?
Guess we can't drink Bud light anymore.
Let's toss all our peavey's, because George Lynch didn't like his deal and bailed ... saving face by shaming a company for using work release programs.
Calling it slave labor....and look at everyone jumping on board
Sheep.
@@scott6588 youve smoked too much meth old man.
George Lynch is the opposite of based... he's a raging leftist
I worked for a major country artist who was going to get a signature amp. After a tour of the factory floor we were told most of the labor would not be performed here but “down the road at another location”. Never did get a tour of that place ….
After the undercover boss episode came out he declined the signature amp offer.
Good on him!
Shit that didn't happen for 300 Alex
@@TL-angzarr 🤣
Undercover boss episode? You’ve peaked my curiosity. I own a katana so who knows under what conditions it was made.
Edit: I’d totally forgotten about the show. What episode was this.
I think that prisons, private or publicly owned should have to disclose information like this.
Really good point. So much of business is shady and murky to the point of being obstructive to real questioning.
We are so demanding of our governments in relation to transparency but seem to be pretty happy with anything that goes on if it’s “for profit”
@@mhoppy6639 the very idea of prisons being run for profit is inimical to any possibility of real justice.
Very much so
Why? Who gives a crap? They are prisoners....
@@youWoNtLikeMe04 decent people give a crap because the enslavement of prisoners is an incentive to imprison people who should not be in prison.
That's our privatized prison system. "We are teaching them new skills" they say. It's all a sham
7-9% of prisoners are in private prisons, this dude is a liar. There's no "system", it's a very small part of American incarceration , a simple web search disputes this dudes "FACTS" that it's the majority.
Surely it must be possible to find ex inmates who worked on Peavey products but didn't have to sign any NDAs
I doubt it. The NDA would be a condition of employment.
@@jasonlee8497 if it's employment then by definition it's not slavery
@@nihilistlivesmatter oh, you mean how the law is structured? Funny how that works….
Nope I mean how words have definitions
@@nihilistlivesmatter You're just wrong here, either by outright lying or ignorance. Prisoners lose the right to refuse work in prison, the courts have affirmed this. They have few of the same protections as regular workers, and are subject to retaliation and forced to work in unsafe conditions for extremely low pay. Plenty of slaves signed an employer agreement, that's how they fool you.
Don't act smug when you haven't looked into this stuff at all
Thanks for this. You are doing real journalism. I haven't used Peavy products in decades and now have no interest in using them at all. Good on George Lynch for being principled.
"Principled"?? George Lynch is a communist.
Yeah, George Lynch is principled. Very very funny. When I think of ethics, I think of George Lynch.
Too woke for Dokken, now that is weak. Wokeness is the antithesis of rock and roll. Wokeism is for people who can't handle real ethics.
@@t.c.494 Thanks for having the courage to show the world you have nothing to contribute and are not very smart.
@@t.c.494😂😂😂😂
Thank you for digging this up KDH, real journalism. So it turns out America having the worlds highest prison population is by design.
That, and after the 13th amendment was ratified, a whooooole lot of local ordinances and laws started getting passed in former slave states which essentially made it impossible for black people to exist in the public sphere without being in violation of at least one.
They want to round up as many minorities as they can, put them in the system and make sure that they cannot vote to change it or escape it through prosperity. The United States is a shithole fascist country.
It is "by design", but not for labor. It's for the Private prisons to have lots of inmates and politicians to look "tough on crime".
Cheap labor is something they could get in a lot of trouble for and they spend a great amount of effort hiding that when it happens.
Somewhat...
It's a beneficial side effect of a large prison population, to have access to affordable labor.
By the way don't fall for the 14 cents an hour bs.
If Peavey brought in work release inmates it was likely for restitution or they already worked there before being incarcerated.
Probably got $15 an hour.
How much they received after restitution or "program" fees is another story.
Initial point is our high imprisoned rate is by design a deterrent.
Meant to maintain a good tax payer.
Same reason divorce is so harshly one sided
It's a benefit to have married people as they are more likely to maintain homes, new vehicles, college tuition for children, and taxes.
Same reason homelessness will never be fixed, as there needs to be a specific portion of the population there to deter quitting your job.
It's by design there to remind you that you're always one bad choice away from a cardboard box.
@@DewydiditTough on crime policies are a part of it, but just as big a part if not bigger is just so the private prison companies MAKE FUCKING MONEY. The captive labor is a bonus to make more money.
BUT CHINAAAAA
This probably involves the building of Cabinets, Cases etc. Even in the UK some companies use prison labour, I once bought a bunch of round 8 Seater Picnic Tables for a business I was managing, the ones with the benches attached, whilst buying them I got into conversation with the guy selling them and he told me they were built by UK Prisoners and that's how they kept the costs down!
Right?
Logic suggests that in order to try to avoid moving overseas, they attempted all options including using work release programs to fill less desirable positions.
Have to keep in mind they can only pay $14 an hour, where the prison guard jobs pay $20.
So they are forced to use some form of prison labor to keep that USA label at least until their market share increases.
Instead undercover boss happens and poof, load everything up and move it overseas.
There's a stigma to this that someone incarcerated shouldn't touch anything we purchase.
It should be made by oompa loompas apparently....which are ironically slaves.
Sure Peavey made errors.
There's greed there.
But leave the stigma that we're too important to allow a work release employee to touch our amp.
My problem is it all aims the viewer towards .14 cents an hour forced labor.
There's no third party to defend the programs, or compensation, or restitution.
For all we know, inmates received full pay taken off their fines, or towards early release .
And Shelby Cobras are built by murderers in a maximum security prison.
And once the prisoner finished their sentence, they had some work experience they could use when applying for work.
@@DeadKoby if they ever got out. This shit is illegal everywhere in the civilised world for a good reason.
@@richardharrold9736 Exactly, "IF" they get out. One of the number 1 reasons for this is due to federal & state government officials allowing many of these penitentiaries to be bought up & run by private corporations for profit. The mission to their agenda is to keep inmates incarcerated as long as possible anyway they can. It's not in their favor to produce any real prison reform to reduce the percentage of inmates from re-entry. They'd rather have convict's come back as soon as possible to provide another set of helping hands in their labor force for profit. As wrong as these savvy business practices may be, the profit margins are so large to see any change in this type of behavior ending anytime soon, you can bet your azz on that. The profit & power being accumulated is to big to put a stop to it. Especially, when they allow all these corporate lobbyists to continue filling the pockets in Congress. Just saying... +Peace & Rock n' Roll 4 Your Souls+
Your channel never fails to deliver. You're a cut above.
"never disappoints" and "never fails to deliver" are two separate idioms genius.
@@antihero0101 I'm a fucking idiot.
Inmates need jobs. Didn’t anyone see Shawshank?
he's peddling in misinformation
@@HashiAkitaPuppy nice try Mr. Peavey
First off, KDH, thanks for the video. I always enjoy your content, even if on VERY RARE occasions, I disagree with the views in the video.
Before calling this "slave" labor, has anyone considered asking prisoners how they feel about this work? I worked for many years with prison work crews. With the exception of a few rare individuals, the prisoners would have begged and fought to get on a work crew like this. They will do anything to get out of their cells and housing units and forget about being locked up. I have seen prisoners beg, bribe, pay and strong-arm other prisoners out of their positions on work crews like this. The only crew that was ever hard getting prisoners to volunteer for was the kitchen crew. They didn't like that crew because they had to get up at 1:30am for kitchen crew to make meals for the rest of the prisoners. So before people go trying to save and protect people, make sure the people need and want protecting. Take away many of the work crews and you will have a lot of frustrated and angry prisoners sitting in their cells and housing units, dwelling on their confinement circumstances. And as said before, some of them do learn productive skills that they utilize for careers when they are released and re-integrated into society. Cabinet workers can make really good money on the outside. Also, the prisons are paid by the companies for the labor. The money is often used for inmate living enhancements in the prisons, new housing unit TVs, radios, computers, visitation equipment, etc. (often, but not always, it depends on the laws governing the prison). It also reduces the amount of tax payer dollars needed for prison up keep, etc. Work is part of the prisoners' sentence, as it indirectly gives back to the community by saving tax payer dollars by not having to hire as many government workers or contractors for things like kitchen work, carpentry, landscaping, painting, welding and metal workers, etc, all of which are well paid job skills when they are re-integrated into society.
Great post. Most of these posts are people too quick to virtue signal to actually think about what it is they’re actually advocating for.
I find KHD very good in intention, but not thorough enough in execution when it comes to the details. He made the same mistake when he analysed the accounts of Chapman guitars. It just doesn't help credibility, as you will ask yourself if he actually understood things correctly in areas you are not familiar with.
@@rkk578 that last sentence is key, which is why I never trust any reports on anything immediately.
KDH isn't going to do any real journalism, he reposts.
@@t.c.494 I urge you to follow some of his sources for this video. It’s laughable he thinks they’re legitimate.
I feel even better about swapping from a 6505 to an Earth Original 2000 now.
Any prisoners in the US that are working at a private company are 99% likely to be in a work to release program, where they get to be out of jail for 12 hours and Re-assimilate to a non prison environment. Mississippi prisons make them do actual slave type farm work, press licence plates, kitchen work, laundry and clean the prison for less than those cents you were speaking of.
Any job outside the prison is better than digging and picking everything by hand 12 hours a day in the Mississippi sun or be punished for refusing to work (actual slavery).
Working in a factory (where labor laws exist, and you get to take bathroom and meal breaks) assembling amps and cabinets is far from slavery.
Love the channel man. Im drawn to the analytic perspective you seem to always have. Sometimes it's nice to have someone teach you things straight to the point and without frills. Keep it up 👍
I have always loved Peavey stuff. My first amp was a Bandit 65. Even now they have some awesome amps. But no way can I support buying their products after watching “Undercover Boss”.
I remember the old prison sentences like "20 years with hard labor". Tbh it still happens in lots of developed countries, and a ton of undeveloped countries. Hell, nobody's got a problem when apple does it.
A lot of people have a problem when Apple does it.
@@thebreakfastmenu Well, over the last 5 years apples stock has hardly had any dips, and people are buying at an even higher rate now. That's just a hard stat to dispute, a lot of people do care and I'm one of them, but way way more people don't care at all. If they ditched the slave labor and made them in USA, they'll be likely 5 times the current cost. Fucked up world brotha!
No one has a problem with license plates made by prisoners. Why should musical instrument products be any different?
Nobody would get clicks for posting it, so it isn't immoral. It's only immoral when people benefit from ratting.
@@Thirdgen83 private companies dont profit off it, genius. why is this so sifficult for people to understand
I wonder which prisoner the "Bandit 112" was named after.
I feel that at least we can shed light over this. This happens all over the world but people cannot or will not admit to talking about it and there are severe reprecussions for people around you for speaking out.
So many American companies use cheap prison labor, and has pretty much killed American manufacturing.
There's definitely poor conditions and slave like conditions globally, but thats the rare instances.
People in China aren't all making a dollar an hour, or landlords couldn't charge more than $60 a month rent.
Cars would be $600 new.
It's silly logic to believe in worst case scenarios as the cultural norm.
I think Peavey likely used Huber work release inmates, and had to pay them at least minimum wage.
That's a way way different story than slave labor though, and not as attractive to get views.
Have to be careful.
Peavey may not be the huge brand they once were, but they could still decimate a RUclipsr and struggling 80s glam guitarist for spreading slander, if the message is misleading but could be considered detrimental to the brands sales.
It's a fun story, but the amount of pockets Peavey would have had to grease to get .14 cent labor would have outweighed it's benefit.
most products manufactured in china is de facto slave labour
My first couple of amps were Peavey amps when I was 13-14 years old. I even learned how to draw the logo. I’ve been on the lookout for a Studio Pro 40 in decent shape at a decent price just for the nostalgia, but the more I learn about Peavey’s practices over the years, the less I want anything with their name on it.
Any business owner knows that the biggest expenses come from wages. If you manage to cut those in all stages involved in guitar making, from the people chopping trees to those transporting all kinds of stuff, from the one who paints to the one who assembles, etc... You're able to produce really cheap not necessarily bad products in countries with dubious labour/safety/human rights for almost everyone involved. Then you can grab your brand new guitar and complain about how bad the state of the world is.
Well stated.
If you can't pay a livable wage, you shouldn't be in business. Also, if you have no concern over dubious labor/human rights just because it's not your son or daughter, that screams of narcissism.
@@jaysorensenIBEW Yeah, when things are hard just quit right? Nobody forced anyone to work for them, you are big boys and girls.
Judging by how Peavy leadership presented itself during that infamous Undercover Boss episode, I have no doubt that these allegations are valid.
They appear to be the type of people who would happily justify child labor if they could get away with it.
Which is what they are doing now.
Wow, that is a disgusting comment. Criminals are people who have harmed others and cannot be trusted to be free, they are not like children meathead.
Look at the kind of bigotry this KDH is stirring up.
Given that they're in Mississippi, I'm more surprised they haven't tried.
Seems odd to jump to such conclusions.
We're ok with our cars being made completely by automation for $40,000....but if an inmate touched our amp, we throw our arms up in disgust.
Seriously though, perspective is key here.
Is there such thing as a morally pure corporation?
Or did we simply witness Peavey during their last grasp attempt to keep the product in America when undercover boss hit?
Just timing.
Fender was lucky enough that they could pick off Mexican immigrants fresh over the border to hand a low paying job, and we keep handing over $4,000 for "team built" custom shop guitars.
In perspective I'd rather have the inmate working on my gear.
Nothing against the Mexican but likely fresh off a farm looking for a better life.
Not very experienced with building a custom shop guitar.
So where's the line?
Isn't it more metal to know 5% of the people who built your amp were murderers?
If they even built it at all?
Or looking at it from the inmates perspective.... what if Peavey couldn't fill that particular job, and offered inmates jobs at $2 an hour and time off sentence?
How many dove at that chance?
Who are we to decide?
It seems we are asked to ignore our own better judgement, and simply support a view.
Without stepping back and realizing how hard they tried to hang on.
How many of our products are from companies who couldn't hang on.
How many are from inmates.
But one person points out one of thousands who were struggling to maintain, and we all get Halo's.
Meh.
That would explain how they were able to price "made in the USA" stuff so cheap for so long.
If any of this was even true, and George Lynch is suddenly not the historical flip flopper saying random stuff for attention, you still have the fact that Peavey doesn't own the prison or prisoners.
They don't get to choose the inmates pay.
They would pay the prison, like a company paying a temp service.
So if a position pays $15 an hour for example, the company would pay probably $22 an hour.
That extra assumes the temp service takes responsibility of the employees injuries, or workman's compensation as well.
Of course the temp service needs to pocket that amount, and therefore only places employees in positions that are lower risk.
The prison on the other hand, would still charge the $22, but of course would keep $20 of that for housing and potential injuries and rent and other fees
Point being while everyone is freaking out.... claiming slave labor, it wouldn't be Peavey in this instance as they would have payed as much for an inmate per hour as overall expenses for a direct hire.
Likely due to one season where they were booming and couldn't fill all positions.
What the prison does with their cut is a different subject.
One that is also necessary to teach felons about responsibilities and let's face it.... punishment and rehabilitation.
Peavey was a good place to work in the 70's and 80's. I worked there twice. It went to hell after Melia died. I've lived in Meridian all my life, and I'm far from being a Hartley fan, but I've never heard of them using prison labor. I'm calling bullshit.
What I would investigate is, if Peavey did indeed use prison labor, 1) Were those prisoners forced to do it, or was it voluntary? And 2) Were they paid?
I would have no problem offering paid jobs to prisoners if they wished to do them.
Now that is clear thought and good journalism.
Usually, (Idk about in missippi) they are paid like 35 cents an hour, and it is by choice, and they choose to do it so they can have a few bucks to spend on the prison store, but like i said idk about missippi. Would have been some good questions for our video host to answer...
Considering that license plates are made by inmates in the US, all americans use prison labour.
It's as it should be. Prisoners should pay for their incarceration somehow. That being said, far fewer should be in prison.
@@UncleKennysPlace a licence plate is 1 thing but when you buy a amp you want it to be made by skilled engineers who have years of experience and quality control,not fermando and tyrone whos locked up for 8 years for rape and battery
@@UncleKennysPlace They are held in prison against their will. Their labor is coerced labor, which is slave labor by definition. You are defending slavery. There's a reason America has the largest prison population in the world and its because slave labor makes corporations a shit ton of money.
No, it absolutely shouldn’t be that way, and if you haven’t been to prison yourself, I’d implore you to not make such bold statements.
I have spent time at a private prison, and I had a job teaching GED that I was fortunate to get that paid a whopping 50c an hour. I did three years for less than half a gram of heroin, while sexual predators get less time. The point has never been about justice, always about labor.
That place was so overrun with heroin, cellphones, and any other contraband you could think of because the inmates became a hustle to the prison guards.
We became commodities we we walked in, and commoditized even further by the system.
@@random_an0n Incredibly racist comment. A significant portion of people in prison are nonviolent offenders and 70% of people arrested for rape are white.
As a Mississippian, this is a statewide problem. We're still a large plantation. I vouch
As always: a very well covered and researched topic!! 😎👍
It's pretty shocking to hear this, but I do know that prisoners in the Netherlands (were I live) also get to work for major companies.
The reason being that they have something to do, practical and employable skills to develop, and - basically - better themselves while inside, to be better prepared once they're released back into society.
Fact remains of course that these people are paid a stupidly low amount of money - and while certainly the same goes for students / apprentices, this could inherently mean that the quality of the work isn't to the standard as expected by the buyers.
This Peavey story just reeks of "cheapest labourers we could find, to make us more money" kind of managerial thinking...
Anyway, what I've always understood from those in the Netherlands, is that the work was basically just at an assembly line level. No engineering, no quality control, no testing, etc.
Just the basics of - for instance - putting together the wooden housings and cabinets, and perhaps plonking in completely finished circuitboards, if they were up for it... Nothing too intellectually challenging.
But manufacturing companies *should* just come clean about it. Not the usual NDAs while running ads showing highly dedicated, skilled, and happy workers, while people (prisoner or not) are basically being exploited.
Lol. I remember the 5150 in POD Farm 2 was called Missippi Criminal
Prison labor AKA legal slave labor. There's a reason there was a specific cutout for it in the 13th ammendment
It cuts time off the sentence, it’s voluntary, that’s the big thing, and it’s marketable skill when you get out. Not everything is black and white.
That is WHY ALL corrections SHOULD be carried out BY the state, so any convict labour goes BACK into society, NOT private businesses pockets!
@@DMSProduktionsvery few prisons are privately run.
@@Dram1984 GOOD!
@@smelltheglove2038 Except most of the labor requires no actual skill and doesn't teach any actual skills. Pressing a lever in the license plate factory doesn't teach you a useable skill. All the work that requires the "skills" they learn in prison are already all outsourced to prisons or foreign manufacturing. They get paid nothing so when they do finally get out of prison, they have no money, no usable skills, and they're thrown into a labor market that discriminates against people with criminal histories. The entire system is designed so that they will reoffend, end up back in the same prison they were at, doing the same menial slave labor. Why are you such an ardent defender of prison slave labor? Do you have a stake in a private prison?
To complete the picture - Meridian is also the home of a large naval air station.
Excellent report - These sort of vids work well with the rest of the channel.👍
Let the inner Jimmy Olsen blossom.😎
Oh yeah - Went back and revisited your previous Peavy vid - It was as good as I remember.
Some interesting viewpoints in the comments as well.
HAHAHAHAHA, Jimmy Olsen! Good one!
The way that that guy just goes, “GOTTA GET YER LABOR FROM SOMEWHERE!” is fucking chilling.
Pretty damn chilling but speaks volumes about how Americans view labor.
Some things will never change you know?
Pretty sure he was being facetious but okay.
@@Joe-mz6dc didn't seem like it at all.
FYI: You can get an endorsement deal from Peavey simply by "starting a church".
Typical satanist.
There’s no way 😭
PRISON LABOUR???
They wild for this
Someone ring George and ask him where he sources the materials used in his "signature" electronics in his custom made guitars. Is he sourcing those materials in "green" ways. Are proper labor/ laws followed are the materials being mined and refined morally/ethically while not violating human rights.... bet he doesn't answer.
Had my friend change out a tube in my fender amp . He had a DUI.
lol
Convicts do jobs in prison. Wtf is the difference if they assemble amps or stamp license plates?
That is why the argument falls down with regard to "slavery". As soon as ppl need money to basically live (as is the case in pretty much all countries) then they are by definition "forced" to work, therefore slavery by that definition does not exist. There is also the issue that the prisoners doing work do so because they want to. Why sit in a cell for 22 hours a day when instead they could work & even get paid (as per all workers - albeit not at the same wage rate)? I do find it amusing that countries like the UK had basically salve labour "youth training schemes", kids of around 17-20 made to work 40 hours a week for an extra £10 a week on top of their £20-30 (this was the 1980's & 1990's). The moral high horse that ppl take now when ppl who literally committed crimes & yet ppl who did nothing wrong were basically forced to work all because the UK government fucked up the economy.
About time someone really talks about this.
Peavey were once a great company - bullet proof and reliable. Today however the family has destroyed this company and their brand is dead.
Decades ago I worked for a reservations center for a well-known hotel chain. They used prison labor as part of that call center. It got shut down after an inmate was found with credit card numbers that guests had used to book reservations.
They didnt think that one through very well did they... lol
@@VashStarwind yeah. Imagine that happening
Didn't the people who made those decisions of who gets to do that work, even thought of that happening?sheesh!
This guy I used to work for used to assemble for Peavey in the late 80’s in Mississippi I think he said.. they could smoke and eat at their workbenches, but then some worker left a chicken wing in the speaker cabinet and they banned food and tobacco at the table orknstations.
Bound to happen
Left it in there? Using the cab as a table? Would of been great if it got out to a guitar shop. Chicken wing stuck between the cone and the driver. Takes it back to the store,.. "I don't have much sustain, even with the preamp cranked up. Sounds real stiff, kind of a fluttering sound." lol!
When I was a teen, (way back in the 1970s) someone brought an amp head into a shop and said there was an odd smell from it when he turned it on. Got the amp from an uncle that hadn't used it in many years and gave it to him. He said he turned it on and left it to to warm up. He then came back to "some smell" and a blown fuse. You know a mouse looks like after high AC voltage? Just RUclips electric chair fails. The tech felt bad for him and cleaned it then biased it for free. Charged him for cleaning it and the poop out and pop-riveting covers for the holes. That's what you get when an uncle uses a die cutter to make a few holes for ventilating heat away from the inside of the chassis.
Hence, the unique chicken wing channel for Peavey amps.
@@rascalhoudi5689you have a good sense of humor. I bet we'd have fun hanging out playing Peaveys.
The talking head shot here looks really good dude. I like this way more than you standing in front of the wall, in the center of the frame
This was very interesting, great video.
I distinctly remember an interview with George Lynch from guitar one magazine in late 2004 where he discussed that Peavey was working on his signature amp that was supposed to have five voicings... That of course never happened and the amp became known as the Penta. Go figure 🤷
The XXX was going to be called the Peavey Brahma and was his as well as the Penta which I believe the name was kept in that case. I had a XXX for awhile, hated it even if I LOVE my Dual Rectumfire
Law without love and community leads to death.
My step father did a long prison term in California, he made office furniture for a popular American office brand while incarcerated. He said many product were being made in Prison. He did get paid though - $1.87 per hour, which went to his extra food, and other consumables.
These people speak as it’s all bad. It kinda is but it’s not. 11 years in Alabama. I worked hard to stay out of trouble and made my way to a work camp. I cleaned the streets and cut grass. We made an abysmal $2 a day. But it got me in the “real” world and got me Popeyes chicken every week. I eventually transferred to a janitor in a community college. Ate real good daily!
Basically the cities we’re paying around $40 an inmate. Saved the cities hundreds of thousands of dollars not having to hire people to do the jobs. Not having to pay insurance and stuff. Then I went to work release and was paid wages the same as everyone else. And got to go home once a month.
I really hope you exposing people doesn't get you hurt. You're a good lad and you do good stuff.
Respect to George.
Please keep em coming
I had to do slave labor once. Bayridge Hospital locked me up after they failed the fire inspection, illegally drugged me, and forced my to procure a fire escape map using their win2k pc. Those criminal scum that did this to me where never charged or put in prison where they belong.
I'm no Peavey fan, but....who cares if they use prison labor? They're in prison for a reason - and the reason isn't that they're angels. Screw them.
Private companies shouldn't be able to profit off of prison labor.
@@mitchpattimusic Why not? Exactly what constitutional or statutory or even common law provision do you make this argument?
@@chuckschillingvideos it's a moral argument not a legal one.
I’m sure we’ve all bought gear from companies with questionable practices. But when you know outright, we should not buy their stuff. IMO
It doesn't change the world but at least it's something. At least corporate thugs start to be a little more concerned.
Good guitar player, one hell of a journalist!
Great video.
KDH, that red line at the end of the thumbnail almost made me think I had watched the vid already. Just a heads up, I might not be the only one.
Peavey is the Busch Light of the MI industry.
In the USA it isn't uncommon for lower classified inmates, usually county jails, to continue their employment or seek employment, in exchange for rent to the jail
It's called Huber.
An inmate can leave for let's say 12 hours a day, six days a week, but has to pay the jail $900 a month from wages.
I'd imagine in a prison town such as Peavey headquarters, this practice was unavoidable.
As the prisons likely payed better than Peavey.
So to be fair, and I'm not defending Peavey, but it's not "Prison" labor or "Slave" labor.
It's a program designed so people who get a drunk driving and have to sit a month, don't lose their jobs.
It simply expanded from there, simple because an employee who is incarcerated will be at work all day every day.
Very little people calling in sick.
So it's about perspective.
The program is beneficial, yet we want all our purchases to come from companies with strong morals, but that honestly is never the case in manufacturing.
It’s not hard to get to the point of view that peavy is helping the guys get a foothold to start a change in their lives. Do they offer that same position once they get out? Does the work they do go to paying fines or restitution so they don’t have that hanging over their heads? Lots of people commenting have this “holier than thou” mentality and think the only virtuous position is to call them evil. Never once thinking about the prisoners perspective, based on similar programs that I’m aware of, who love these sorts of programs. Seems like a win-win situation to me.
@@smelltheglove2038 as a society when we hear prisoners earn .14 cents and hour, and that China pays employees $1 and hour, we make that a blanket statement.
We can't comprehend that there's inmates making $40 and hour through Huber work release.
Or Chinese manufacturers paying $18 and hour in state of the art facilities, to produce amps.
We simply assume everything is worst case.
I think George had some sour grapes, and wanted to take a few shots on the way out.
Again not defending Peavey, but he's misinformed.
The .14 cents an hour is the rarest of the rare work farm pay.
Government stuff.
Peavey wouldn't qualify, and would have to adhere to minimum wage laws.
Yet any corporation looking to save a buck will eventually simply run out of places to save a buck....and off to Vietnam and China it was.
I doubt it was ever a "Prison" labor situation.
Huber sure.
Why would peavey hire them when they can pay the next criminal 13 cents an hour?
@@WearyKirin state probably gives them all sorts of tax exemptions and set asides to offer the program. Probably a whole separate division from the main business. They only offer so many positions usually and you have to earn them.
@@WearyKirin that's where the misinformation comes in.
You were steered into thinking these people were actually paid 13 cents an hour.
No inmates said that.
Peavey didn't say that.
Mississippi didn't say that.
A guitar player who's contract didn't work out suggested slave labor.
Then a RUclipsr pushed that.
That's how Media works.
Reality is, if Peavey did have a plant for inmates, for a less desirable position, then it was likely in exchange for restitution to the state at $15 an hour off fines.
Don't buy into this 13 cents an hour BS.
Inmates would just stand there.
Has to be an acceptable give and take.
Same with believing China only pays $1 an hour.
Would be living in a box.
More like $6-$10 an hour.
Now I'm not saying there aren't fees the prison charges after that $15 an hour....like rent, but they don't leave inmates with 13 cents an hour.
Government run work farm growing crops for other prisons? Sure, but not Peavey.
I'm okay with it. The inmates are working in voluntary work programs. Criminals who would otherwise be wasting time in jail learn a valuble skill and Peavey gets a cost cut on labor.
There is nothing wrong with prison labour, as long as the prisoners in question get paid.
To be fair, if I was building amps and audio equipment in prison, I’d be stoked. Way better than painting or working the intake. Plus it takes time off your sentence.
& makes you more employable when you get out
KDH did mention: its not just any prison labour, its a specific town in Mississippi where there authorities already investigated local authorities for the "school to prison pipeline". So it seems to be the very worst example of the economical implications of the US mass incarceration system as legal and spiritual follower to slavery.
Labour in prison, to qualify to being anything other than legalised slave labour, has to be something more than primitive low- or untrained manual labour for 5 dollar/h. Does it lead to a skilled professional training? Do you get certified for that? How are the wages? Is the prisoners labour used in such a way as to circumvent hiring non-incarerated staff? Maybe even to counteract unionization?
All these things are specific labour questions
@@ithembaschool to prison pipeline isn’t real. Sorry to burst your little bubble.
Thats what i was thinking..
@@ithemba What was the outcome of this investigation?
In the past, Peavey was said to have participated in a prison reform program subsidized by the US govt that paid part of the workers wages. Prison workers had, in effect, a path out of incarceration and into training and productive employment. The program was available to companies located in govt designated “economically distressed” regions of the country.
Now that you mention that I remember reading somewhere about that
Some of those awesome JPW line of hi-fi speaker cabs were made in the woodshops at HMP Dartmoor in the UK.
Thanks KDH
I love Peavy amps; I am also a former prisoner here in the U.S. and as such, am slightly conflicted.
Right? I understand your confliction....You're probably pissed off that you didn't get to help build some of your favorite amps..... I get it!! I would be too!! 🤘lol
Easy fix - just use a simulation. They're pretty good.
If you were offered a job to make amps while inside, would you be offended or excited?
@t.c.494 Depends on the pay. As head tutor for the school in my institution, I made a 5 rate (the highest rate), which was 52 cents an hour.
If Peavey would have beat that, then maybe. To be fair, it was very rewarding helping so many men get their HSED or GED, so I probably would have stayed in my position.
In America it's "labor"...😁
This is very common in the US with large corporations that need cheap/free labor to manufacture goods, or state governments that use prisoners to do work for the state. You'd be surprised by some of the products that are made in prisons...
If I were in prison I’d look forward to building amps all day.
@KDH
Mississippi’s laws may say it’s legal regarding the “farming out convict labor” to the public for money, however, renting them out to Peavey is in no way “slave labor”….especially considering work conditions at Peavey are waaaaay better than conditions in any Missippi state penitentiary by far. The vast majority of Mississippi convicts wind up working on the prison’s farms that are mostly cultivated not much different than the late 1800’s….by hand using hand implements hoeing, planting, and picking BY HAND in brutal heat, cold, etc.
And most any convict is going to prefer working and doing SOMETHING other than sitting in a cell all day.
I really can’t see what the ethical fuss is. And this convict labor at Peavey they aren’t going to send high security dangerous inmates to work there.
Another question….was this possibly an offender work release program for inmates about to be released? That is definitely not falling under slave labor…not many prisons have programs like that and more really should.
Better than the conditions workers in China and Vietnam are subjected to
I agree with this. These nit-wits crying "slave labor" and "unethical practices" should spend some time sitting in a cell for a few years and they'll jump at the chance to do something to pass the time and maybe even feel productive.
hey your redcneck shithole country is fucked up. even if everything you said is true its not ok.
Offender work release program is probably what they'd call it in China too, so what's the difference?
I feel like there is nothing quite as disappointing as section 1 of the 13th amendment coming up in a guitar video
Correction: A small minority of prisons are run privately. About 2%.
God forbid the incarcerated are given something productive to do.
Yeah, our prison system is nightmarish. Unfortunately, lots and lots of people are okay with that. My fellow Americans just do not care about other people's suffering.
Edit to add: here in Oregon, we passed Measure 112 in 2022 to ban slavery as punishment for crime. In the voters' guide, the only argument against was from law enforcement groups.
When criminals are not punished and held accountable for their decisions and actions you end up with what is happening right now in Portland, OR, Los Angeles and San Francisco.
No thanks.
It’s instances like this that reminds me that you guys came from Puritans and that puritanical way of thinking is still going strong.
@@andrewt836 Don't worry, there's also still nationalists, religious bigots, and somehow even pro-slavery folks around for you to relate to
Many leftists don't care about the suffering their victims went through...the punishment should fit the crime
Yeah @sagittated, gofigger, eh?
I love Peavey stuff.... always have.
Didn’t know that , let me book a trip to Mississippi real quick …
I think someone has to ask Joe Satriani why he suddenly stopped using Peavey in 2009 in the middle of a Chickenfoot tour. He has said in an article on premier guitar that it was, in part, because they were taking too long to make changes, but he didn't say what the other part was.
You can read between the lines. 2009 was a decade before the Undercover Boss episode exposed the true nature of Peavey. Joe was ahead of the curve. So was GL. They both probably had a gut feeling that something very serious wasn't right with Peavey.
It depends on how it’s done. I’ve seen some specials where prison labor was a means of teaching inmates important skills to help them when they get out. That is a problem inmates face leaving prison. Also to keep them busy and not revolt from boredom but feel productive because humans do need to feel accomplishment and being productive is one way. So the questions are how it’s done and why so we can get a better understanding. But the school to prison does raise some flags, like why are the kids that way and why that extreme.
Sure, but to me that speaks to a deeper problem of systemic overincarceration and the perverse profit incentives that drive it.
They are only good enough to make licence plates, or so KDH thinks.
so why does peavey, a guitar product company, get to profit off this? makes no sense bro
That undercover boss really stuck the knife in for them.. I asked a couple of shops why they didnt get the Peavey USA stuff in because it is ( or was) damn good quality as marshall lets say for near on half the price.. (They could get the China made stuff, but not that) and they said that they try to order it and the invoice never comes in, I think they have a skeleton crew that comes in and does work in batches but isnt actually employed full time. Though it would make sense with the prison thing, but its like they manufacture the bare minimum to hold onto their copyrights
I’m glad over the years most of my peavey stuff has been replaced by (pre Gibson buy out) Mesa
Its probably non-news because of how pervasive the practice of contracting labor from the prisons are.
In fact strong arguments have been made that police profiling and war on drugs policies and 3 strikes you're out legislation is all geared towards demancipation (not a word) of the emancipated. In other words the prison slavery exception is the same slavery the US has always had. Its quite a loophole.
Knowing Better's video on modern slavery is an excellent look into this type of thing. It's actually pretty common, so it wouldn't surprise me if it were true. And the marketing team that is the US government and press have done enough that the average US citizen won't be outraged by it. Felons are second class citizens, and there's enough trust that the reason they're felons is just. Don't rock the status quo! ;)
Correction: The vast majority of prisons are government run. Private prisons make up a tiny portion of prisons in the US.
Yep and to be fair this is kind of a hit piece against Peavey who is an easy target after making some poor decisions.
George Lynch had no evidence of what labor was used.He simply heard things when he couldn't get a contract to stick, and leaned into the extremes.
Same tactic in any divorce.
Exaggerate and embellish.
Also Peavey not replying isn't an admission of guilt.
Yet in today's society it's enough to hit publish.
I think they probably used Huber employees to fill some positions.
I doubt prisons are allowed in the USA, to simply slip into corporations and allow the prison to take 98% of the inmates pay.
Them types of ratios are saved for contracts specifically for prison manufacturing...like license plates.
Direct contract type stuff through the government.... something Peavey is not.
It happens in all prisons, not just private
@@ghouling1111 I’m well aware. Just trying to provide a correction to an obvious mistake in the video
@@Dram1984 Just bcuz the privately owned prison's are a lower percentage compared to the prison's run by the government. Doesn't make it any less detrimental or wrong for society. While those numbers maybe low, the numbers of those incarcerated in private prisons have increased 10 fold over 2 decades although the numbers have slightly decreased in the past 5 years. And the only reason for the number drop was due to the "Prison Policy Initiative" organization supporting decarceration. So, to save face private Corps played the game until the coast was clear to resume control. IDGAS if there was only "1" privately owned prison in this country, it's "1" to many. The main characteristic of the US criminal justice system that re-enforces high incarceration numbers & plays in favor of these private Corps prisons is the fact that the prison system in the US is not built to rehabilitate. It is built to keep people in the system for a long time & is centered around incapacitation & retribution. Even if an inmate learns a skill while incarcerated, on the flip side the consequence's for this approach is the fact they are not being prepared to enter the community once they're released from prison. This viscous cycle creates a higher rate of re-entry, in turn creating a higher rate of incarceration overcrowding the system. Which then causes pause in the government's hands & allow more prison's to be built by private Corps eventually even more. Who cares about the analytics the first privately owned prison should bother you a bit my friend? Just bcuz you feel it doesn't effect you bcuz you're not in prison yourself, doesn't mean you should take this issue lightly. Hopefully it will ever happen to you, yet you never know what lies ahead in front of you in life. Whether or not you didn't mean for it to happen or thought it would never happen. "Sh!t Happens!" Just saying...
But an 80's Peavy Rage sounds goooood, even if it was built by Bubba doing 10 to life for some heinous crime.
Undercover Boss sold me. I refuse to do any business with Peavey since.
This makes me want a peavey more
Now just think about this...there are prisons all over the world...and prison labor exists in most if not all of those prisons. If you wanted to start boycotting products produced by underpaid prisoners it would borderline involve an entire shift in lifestyle. That's not to mention all the products being made by underpaid employees who ARENT criminals which also exists all over the world. It's a very very deep and dark rabbit hole to go down.
Same people complaining now are the same people that will gladly buy a Chinese made brand and call you stupid for buying an “overpriced Gibson or Fender”
I have a peavey guitar amplifier manufactured in 1979 in the USA. It saddens me that they left the states in Mississippi and the way they treated the workers.
I think it is great that prisoners learn a task, instead of rotting in a cell or trying to defend themselves in a yard! I look at it as Community Service, what Peavey does. If this is true. PLUS! Peavey make the best "Road Tough" amps that I have used. (40yrs) To that, it seems they are doing the right for all!!!
Dont blame Peavey. You act like they pull up in a stake truck and honk the horn and get "slaves". They are most likely getting paid prison credits and do not have guys with AK47s, yelling, "Solder faster!".
Peavey weren't forced to use cheap prison labour while laying off their skilled workers.
@@richardharrold9736 At least they were using Americans instead of Asians and Mexicans. They tried to stay American as long as possible. You assume it was cheap. Nothing is cheap in the USA.
@@An2oine shut up, racist
@@An2oine I'd much rather buy a product made by free and properly remunerated workers in Mexico, Korea or China than the slaves of the US prison system. The best guitars in the world are Japanese.
@richardharrold9736 There are no slaves in the prison system. Give your money to companies that have sweat shops in Mexico. Fender doesn't make them there because the wood is magically cheaper.
I respect GL even more as a person than a guitar player now.
So you respect communists, huh?
Thanks!
George has had some "not quite accurate" ideas in the past, so this would be nothing new even if there's a grain of truth to it.
Yep.
This is a complex issue. Mississippi shouldn't be sending kids to prison, private for-profit prisons in the US are sketchy, and towns that live off the prison industry are both sad and to be expected. That's another discussion though. Prison industry is not new at all and I don't have a problem with it. Better than having them sit around all day smoking K2 and assaulting each other in understaffed prisons. Sure it can be abused and we should watch out and prevent that but I don't have a problem with it in principle. My cousin learned small engine repair in prison.
It's cheap exploitative slavery that steals jobs and lowers wages.
Thanks for calling this out!
Now get ready for Peavey’s wrath 😢😢
I still use my trusty Peavey Wolfgang Special USA made 99. Got two in fact. The undercover boos episode had an impact on me buying newer gear from them. I like to trust the companies I buy from, but in the wild… that’s getting harder and harder to do sadly!
Great video Cheers from Canada and love the band!
I don't think prison labor is inheritly wrong- if they paid the workers more, maybe have a fund saved up for when they get out as well as job placement where they can use the skills they've learned.
Yes teaching stuff like trade skills in prison and offering them an education would be a good step towards rehabilitation. The US prison system doesn't give a fuck about rehabilitation though. There's a reason the recidivism rate is so high in the US compared to other developed countries. The system wants them to reoffend so they can perpetually exploit them as slave laborers.
Idk id feel pretty shitty thinking im getting some premium american amp and its just made by prisoners
One of the number 1 reasons for this is due to federal & state government officials allowing many of these penitentiaries to be bought up & run by private corporations for profit. The agenda to their mission is to keep inmates incarcerated as long as possible anyway they can. It's not in their favor to produce real prison reform to reduce the percentage of inmates from re-entry. They'd rather have convict's come back as soon as possible to provide another set of helping hands in their labor force for profit. As wrong as these savvy business practices may be, the profit margins are too large to show any change of this type of behavior ending anytime soon, you can bet your azz on that. The profit & power is to big to put a stop to it. Especially, when they allow all these corporate lobbyists continue to fill the pockets in Congress. Just saying... +Peace & Rock n' Roll 4 Your Souls+
Using prison labour for reparation is one thing, for profit is another