Also in the tea room, Kiku mentions the courtesan experience must be different back in Anjin’s homeland, he says yes they’re not as well presented and inquisitive as you. Mariko translates this back to Kiku saying ‘he prefers his homeland’ LOL. Our girl’s a little jelly. 😅
I find the chemistry between Mariko and Blackthorn is excelent the way her breath catches while interpreting for him it's clear they both have feelings for each other.
@@abc92800 Spoilers:…....…................Ah, I am not sure, as far as I remember from the book, regularly they were together on the way to Yedo. This is yet to come in the series.
@@abc92800 I love me some good angst and will absolutely devour it when it's done well. It is done very, very well here. So much so that the tea room scene to me is one of the greatest tv moments ever, a real masterclass in romantic tension and sexual desire. But we've gotten extreme angst for 3 episodes and there needs to be further development now, some relief needs to happen. I keep wanting more of them. I want to see them acknowledge their love and be soft and romantic with each other. Their love story is my favorite part of the show. With only 3 episodes left, they better deliver lol. The actors have way too good chemistry to waste it away.
I don’t think anybody commented yet on the fact Toranaga is pitting them all against each other. He knew Omi is in love with Kiku from his spies, he knows of course Omi pissed on Blackthorne and the two hate each other, and of course he knows Buntaro is jealous of Mariko spending all her time with Blackthorn. It is revealed towards the end of the book that Toranaga bought out Kiku’s contract from her Tea House in order to control Omi - who he thninks is much smarter than Yabu and can potentially become a problem one day - or a great ally, when they eliminate Yabu. It’s all plans within plans. He also of course wants to get mariko to stay closer to Toranaga but he cannot get totally over Buntaro’s head. That all aside - Kiku sees what’s going on between Mariko and Blackthorn and says, I can leave and close the door behind me - you can be completely alone with him and nobody will know and I will not tell. Mariko refuses - she understands this is dangerous for her - It’s all about discipline and thinking two steps ahead, this is basically what the scene is about.
I agree with that larger analysis but I also see that in this moment Kiku explains the Willow world and Mariko translates this for Blackthorne. As she does she is revealing herself to him again. Kiku offers herself as a surrogate for the passion they cannot freely express for each other.
In ancient Japan, the high ranked courtesans were a real deal. They've been trained since a very young age and well educated. They're not only good in bed but also mastered in many arts such as singing, dancing, playing instruments and painting. That's why they are expensive af!
"'She had not been prepared for what soon became obvious: clearly the Anjin-san desired the Lady Toda, though he hid it as well as any civilized person could hide it. This in itself was not surprising, for Lady Toda was most beautiful and accomplished, and, most important, she alone could talk with him. What astounded her was that she was certain the Lady Toda desired him equally, if not more. The barbarian samurai and the Lady samurai, patrician daughter of the assassin Akechi Jinsai, wife of Lord Buntaro! Eeeee! Poor man, poor woman. So sad. Surely this must end in tragedy"
Yes, I seem to remember this quote from the book... To be honest, I feel that, both the 1980 version, and this 2024 version, do NOT quite measure up to the story in the book... In the book, there was far more detail about what actually happened, but we are only getting a brief glimpse in this episode... I think that, in this 2024 version, Kiku looks very nice, but the lady in the 1980 version was not so nice... Just my opinion...
@@richardruff8712 I cannot tell about the book - everybody reads and interprets books and stories through their own eyes. So we are seeing in 1980 and now different pieces of art, and they cannot be exactly as the book. I prefer this series version much better than the 1980 one though. The costumes and the cinematography in the first place, but mostly because the mood of this series vibrates with me much better - for example in this scene. the tension, the passion, the desire, the positioning of the characters, the light, just everything.
@@Jepopova Spoiler alert ! ... Please don't give advanced clues away, to those new viewers, who have not seen the 1980 version, nor read the 1244 pages of the book... That is why I try to give my comments... ONLY about what we have seen, so far... I try not to give any information about what is to come ? .... We shall see ?
@@JepopovaYes, I note you have deleted part... Thank you for teaching me something.... I was not aware that the originator of a comment, could, if required, actually alter or delete parts of the comment... I just assumed that a comment is ' fixed in stone ' and could not be altered... This is most interesting ... Thank you...
Omi didn't do himself any favors. Falling in love with someone like Kiku is pure pain 😂 I think the actress is the most beautiful out of all of them, yet does such a great job portraying those dead eyes and that soulless expression.
Kiku plays the lover to Omi, because he is the mayor of the town. Her only real admiration is for her Mistress Lady Gin, who conducts the tea house and reveres Kiku as her prize courtesan.
People who nit pick this excellent series by comparing it to the book or the original series should just relax. Take it for what it is. The cinematography, the lighting, the intimacy of the scenes - even the not so sensual ones - are far superior to the original , IMO. That's a tough call, but that's what I think. The music score and over all audio experience is very much superior.
The cinematography is overproduced and unnecessary to the point of distracting. The lighting is your typical drained color pallet that seems to be in EVERYTHING nowadays. Who the F cares about two actors bumping uglies on screen? Is this a historical series or a porno? Give me a tight script and decent locations...and actors who don't look and sound constipated.
I read the book several times and watched the original series. If I wanted to be pedantic about it I could pick holes in both TV versions but I'm very much aware that it's easy to be an armchair director and that the majority of viewers haven't read the book and probably wouldn't enjoy my version of the story - which would cover practically every page and go on for 30-40 hour-long episodes, sticking religiously to the text. As for this series, I share your views on every aspect of the presentation and can only add that I think the casting has been excellent and each character totally believable.
@@stuartdear1187 Agreed. But honestly both the TV series have pros and cons. This version is gorgeous in presentation but for me there was more chemistry between the characters in the original series.
"Uuuugh! . . Wanted to hear her say, " . . . for your return visit . . . We should not only make the trees shake . . . . . . . . . .But the leaves fall as well." :D
People come to this place have something they wish to forget, be it boredom, pain, hardship, disappointment. I offer you relief from this, and safety, to create one perfect moment that you wish to inhabit completely. Settle your eyes on what you desire, I ask you into my openness, I ask you to be here with me now.
I like how she makes use of the space. And the theme of a secret private world which mirrors the secret world of women and how they fight. She sits beside Mariko I'm her shadow so its like you're actually talking to Mariko. She can see the tension between them and she's "serving" them both. She knows they have feelings for each other and knows that the only comfort she can offer is privacy to be together. But Mariko refused.
@@einezcrespo2107 he is very gentlemanly than the guys who came to Kiku , who were polite outside and horrible inside. John looked like whatever he was and that's why Kiku liked him .
The book version of this visit is a little more... not graphic, but detailed? Suffice to say the lady was quite pleased with her time with the Anjin... to the point of almost overstepping the bounds of propiety with a fairly obvious look of longing.
The price for the evening was much higher than most of us realize. The experience cost roughly $900 in today's US dollars. That's roughly the price of women like Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal. Unless we were billionaire real estate developers, we couldn't afford Kiku. Torrenaga is a generous man. He wouldn't have to pay hush money but cold steel.
You are a connoisseur I see LOL Think about it that $900 was for a whole night with an expert at pleasing men and not a washed up bikini model. @@gamemaster2311
Kiku explains the Willow world and Mariko translates this for Blackthorne. As she does she is revealing herself to him again. Kiku offers herself as a surrogate for the passion they cannot express for each other.
Torenaga ordered mariko to get john a courtesan as a test because he suspected her and john had feelings for each other. On top of that he wanted her to watch which she couldn't bare so she walked out. Even kiku and her mistress knew they had something going on😂 Pay attention to the "gestures"
No, Sonoya doesn't look like the women of old Japan, she looks modern and mixed. The actress they have now is perfect and has a very seductive presence.
@@sabrinazurich2241 Really? I guess the White Worm wasn't killed after all. Nonetheless, she is _very_ busy, not least of all with Civil War and around 5 other projects.
@@finalarbitrator4551 I'm joking. I'm suggesting that Japanese men have small penises, like in stereotype. But then I'm suggesting that Anjin-san is "big" by being only slightly larger than the Japanese men the geisha is used to. A finger joint is one of the bones in the finger. Each finger has three bones to it (the phalanges). I don't know what unit of measurement the Japanese were using at the end of the 16th Century AD, but it wouldn't be the Englishman's inches and feet. A finger would be a common point of reference between the two cultures. Also, a finger's length, whether two joints or three, would not be considered long, no matter who you are.
It would explain why Mariko reacted the way she did after getting some. She wasn't exactly in a hurry for more. I found her reaction less than believable otherwise ahahaha. Maybe poor Blackthorne has spent too many years at sea and doesn't know what he's doing.
Did John Blackthorne pillow Kiku actually or not? I am confused. Episode 7 mother courtesan said his mind is on Mariko i assume not? But in Japan of that time to not pillow is great shame
Yes they did. Take note of Mariko's jealousy when she changed the translation of Kiku's words. In the book Kiku and Mariko actually got along also in the 80's TV series.
I think you will enjoy your time in my Tea House. Some call it the Willow World, because my ladies are like lilies in a lake. There you will find no prying eyes from the outside world. All of this I guarantee… … allow me to explain why the Willow World is among the most treasured planes of existence. People who come to this place have something they wish to forget. Be it boredom, pain, hardship, or disappointment. They believe this place is about physical pleasure, which it is. But it can be more. The people I meet wish for a different life or circumstance. They want to be anyplace other than where they are. I offer you relief from this and safety to create one perfect moment that you wish to inhabit completely. Settle your eyes on what you desire. My unclothed form. Just as I am with nothing between us. I ask you into my openness. I ask you to be here with me now.
I read somewhere that Fuji is described in the novel to be ‘plain’ looking. In this 2024 film version, Fuji is definitely plain compared to Mariko and Kiku.
I still prefer Fuji, especially in this film. Her eyes are sparkling in every scene. Kiku and Mariko are gorgeous but I think Fuji has a more sense of pureness. That's what makes her so special.
Fuji is no less beautiful than Mariko, Kiku and Ochiba. While she may be the plain looking of them all, her face expression and gesture is second to none compared to the other female characters in the film. And that made Fuji very attractive to see.
In the book, Kiku ends up marrying Anjin after Mariko’s death at Toranaga’s order. I was hoping that they would include that in the end of the show. In the 1980s version Anjin gives Kiku to Omi. Either was better than the 2024 of just leaving her character in the marsh of Edo.
There are lots of people who get her name wrong in the comments here, calling her “kiko” or “miko” (even though it's in the title!) This is how Asians are treated in the Western world.....
It's cool but frustrating how Mariko mistranslates basically everything in the entire show, no matter whether in official capacity or personal. I get that a huge part of the plot of the book/show is about unreliable translators, and also it would be maybe a boring waste of screen time to have Mariko read the subtitles to you. But still, it kinda makes me begrudge her
While yobbo actor is very likely far more in keeping with the real William Adams...Snarky, bratty Mariko is a damn poor replacement for the divine Yoko Shimada in that role.
I much preferred the 1980 SHOGUN's version of this sequence. Other than Blackthorne, the characters weren't nearly as blatant with their feelings of annoyance and discomfort with the situation.
For authenticity, I prefer this show any day as it was conducted by a true Japanese production. Some elements from the book (like character names) were also changed for the show as they were inconsistent with the Edo period
I get that the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese are all proud of their cultures. I just wish so many of them weren't so....superior about it. Civilization comes in many different flavors, and not everyone outside your culture is automatically a barbarian.
Lol you know any country that was an advanced nation at a time but not looking down on less civilized neighbors? Ever since the day one in Egypt? Besides Koreans were in the position to look up its neighboring counties for centuries as their country was a vessel state of China so even own Kings despite own language and pressed their nobles to speak Chinese until Japan defeated China and annexed and modernized it drastically
It’s hilarious if you think so. When Europeans arrived in India and South East Asia, the natives called them barbarians no matter how advanced their technology and weaponry were. The Europeans also called the natives savages in return too. It’s our human nature that we perceive anything outside of our culture to be barbaric and foreign.
What's driving my disappointment in this version is they're constantly leaving the deeper emotions in the story un-filmed and unexplored. Not that the book is a sacred text but the author chose his moments. When Kiku asks Blackthorne about his homeland, it's then it fully hits him how different, AND GRIMY his previous life was and he realizes what he's GAINED and lost. The two writers here just glide by it. When Toranaga calls the troops to order, or the "only if you win" scene are all flatter than they should be in impact. No amount of blood and gore porn is going to cover up this lack of drama. I don't think the screenwriters had the capability to explore the deeper meanings of the book which is weird because they're RIGHT THERE spelled out. I'm pretty well checking out. It's been a disappointment and could've been better.
A 'barbarian' is a completely appropriate word for Blackthorne from the Japanese perspective. He is not merely a foreigner but also considered to not be someone possessing civilized status.
show has been amazing, this episode was the first one where i think they were going a litttttttle heavy on the femanism side but hey.....the name of the episode had me expecting it.
It is understandable that this drama is not as popular in Japan as it is abroad. Japanese period dramas are not so cruel and heavy-handed and focus on the goodness of people.I think this drama is made with the prejudice that Japanese people are barbaric, just because they are faithful to their manners, buildings and kimonos.
@@emilyrainflower25 The producers and actors are Japanese, but this drama is based on a British remake and the script is also written by a Westerner. Most Japanese stopped watching the original Shogun drama in the 1980s halfway through because it was cruel and barbaric. Viewing ratings were low. This drama is produced by Hiroyuki Sanada, so the Japanese customs and buildings are accurate, but not the actual history of Japan. It is a fiction using Japanese history. It is true that in the 1600s Japan was in a state of civil war, but as the Portuguese missionary Luis Frois wrote, women walked alone. He also wrote that peasants watched the samurai fighting while eating onigiri (rice balls). At that time, basically no one was killed except the warriors. Also, there is no history of foreigners who drifted ashore being boiled in a kettle and killed for no crime.
The people of that era in general are fairly "barbaric" if we compare them to a post-Geneva convention mentality. Keep in mind the writer of this story wrote what he knew from his perspective, and he was not entirely accurate, though due to his efforts a lot of people became fascinated with the idea of getting to know Japan more in the latter half of the 20th century. Japan was no exception to barbaric behavior, though they had their own style, they preferred cutting heads off corpses to identify them after the fact as a means of prestige bargaining, which some other cultures probably would argue was a bad practice...Europeans preferred their nobles mostly alive for ransom money. I am not too wild about the boiling alive scene, given that was a very rare thing, and as another channel pointed out: Henry VIII did far more boiling of people than virtually anybody else did, and even other European monarchs thought that was a savage thing to do. I think we can cut the creators of this show just a little bit of slack.
Lady Kiku: please tell him to visit me again. I will be waiting.
Mariko: She said thank you. 😅😅😅😅
Mariko: "I can't be with you Anjin"
Also Mariko internally: "If I can't have him, NOBODY CAN!!!"
@@RockSmithStudio Women. ☕
やっぱりみんなそこ、注目したよね。あんなにそっけなく言葉が通り過ぎるシーンだけど。
Also in the tea room, Kiku mentions the courtesan experience must be different back in Anjin’s homeland, he says yes they’re not as well presented and inquisitive as you. Mariko translates this back to Kiku saying ‘he prefers his homeland’ LOL. Our girl’s a little jelly. 😅
@@thihaaung647😂
I find the chemistry between Mariko and Blackthorn is excelent the way her breath catches while interpreting for him it's clear they both have feelings for each other.
the show is quite different from the book version of the couple - they’re already fucking like rabbits and very little of the angst here 😂
@abc92800 Lmaoo maybe the show will get to that before the season ends 💀💀 I haven't read the books yet
@@abc92800 Spoilers:…....…................Ah, I am not sure, as far as I remember from the book, regularly they were together on the way to Yedo. This is yet to come in the series.
@@abc92800 I love me some good angst and will absolutely devour it when it's done well. It is done very, very well here. So much so that the tea room scene to me is one of the greatest tv moments ever, a real masterclass in romantic tension and sexual desire. But we've gotten extreme angst for 3 episodes and there needs to be further development now, some relief needs to happen. I keep wanting more of them. I want to see them acknowledge their love and be soft and romantic with each other. Their love story is my favorite part of the show. With only 3 episodes left, they better deliver lol. The actors have way too good chemistry to waste it away.
@@abc92800 There's more sex in the book?
I don’t think anybody commented yet on the fact Toranaga is pitting them all against each other. He knew Omi is in love with Kiku from his spies, he knows of course Omi pissed on Blackthorne and the two hate each other, and of course he knows Buntaro is jealous of Mariko spending all her time with Blackthorn. It is revealed towards the end of the book that Toranaga bought out Kiku’s contract from her Tea House in order to control Omi - who he thninks is much smarter than Yabu and can potentially become a problem one day - or a great ally, when they eliminate Yabu. It’s all plans within plans. He also of course wants to get mariko to stay closer to Toranaga but he cannot get totally over Buntaro’s head. That all aside - Kiku sees what’s going on between Mariko and Blackthorn and says, I can leave and close the door behind me - you can be completely alone with him and nobody will know and I will not tell. Mariko refuses - she understands this is dangerous for her -
It’s all about discipline and thinking two steps ahead, this is basically what the scene is about.
I read the book. Your analysis is really good.
I agree with that larger analysis but I also see that in this moment Kiku explains the Willow world and Mariko translates this for Blackthorne. As she does she is revealing herself to him again.
Kiku offers herself as a surrogate for the passion they cannot freely express for each other.
@@CEOBrienMakes me get emotional 😢
In ancient Japan, the high ranked courtesans were a real deal. They've been trained since a very young age and well educated. They're not only good in bed but also mastered in many arts such as singing, dancing, playing instruments and painting. That's why they are expensive af!
Them's the days
in the novel the time with Kiku was priced at 1 _koban_ gold coin.
Taught from childhood how to please a man. The ancient japanese ways where a bit strange to our eyes.
Who tf is paying to hear them sing or see them do the arts😂😂😂 they clearly didn't understand their assignment
wtf you mean "ancient japan" this was like 400 years ago dude
Why no one talked about the gentle touch of John’s hand on Mariko’s? That subtle gesture is an assurance of his love for her.
"'She had not been prepared for what soon became obvious: clearly the Anjin-san desired the Lady Toda, though he hid it as well as any civilized person could hide it. This in itself was not surprising, for Lady Toda was most beautiful and accomplished, and, most important, she alone could talk with him. What astounded her was that she was certain the Lady Toda desired him equally, if not more. The barbarian samurai and the Lady samurai, patrician daughter of the assassin Akechi Jinsai, wife of Lord Buntaro! Eeeee! Poor man, poor woman. So sad. Surely this must end in tragedy"
Yes, I seem to remember this quote from the book... To be honest, I feel that, both the 1980 version, and this 2024 version, do NOT quite measure up to the story in the book... In the book, there was far more detail about what actually happened, but we are only getting a brief glimpse in this episode... I think that, in this 2024 version, Kiku looks very nice, but the lady in the 1980 version was not so nice... Just my opinion...
@@richardruff8712 I cannot tell about the book - everybody reads and interprets books and stories through their own eyes.
So we are seeing in 1980 and now different pieces of art, and they cannot be exactly as the book. I prefer this series version much better than the 1980 one though. The costumes and the cinematography in the first place, but mostly because the mood of this series vibrates with me much better - for example in this scene. the tension, the passion, the desire, the positioning of the characters, the light, just everything.
@@Jepopova Spoiler alert ! ... Please don't give advanced clues away, to those new viewers, who have not seen the 1980 version, nor read the 1244 pages of the book... That is why I try to give my comments... ONLY about what we have seen, so far... I try not to give any information about what is to come ? .... We shall see ?
@@richardruff8712 Sorry, I tried to not tell anything specific. Will delete partially :)
@@JepopovaYes, I note you have deleted part... Thank you for teaching me something.... I was not aware that the originator of a comment, could, if required, actually alter or delete parts of the comment... I just assumed that a comment is ' fixed in stone ' and could not be altered... This is most interesting ... Thank you...
Lady Kiku : "Will you join us Mariko?"
John : *Please?*
Mariko: no thanks. I dont want to fornicate with the one I love.
Whaaaatt
🤭 3- some.
外道めが
Ooooohhhh
I got to hand it to Kiku, she makes a hell of a sales pitch...
I was watching history clips about courtesans few days ago and then this episode showed up. Kiku-sama is so damn beautiful!
She's no Fuji.
@@matthewfautch178 you need glasses
Kiku is enchanting 😍
@@Zero8880 はい!
I love the scene when Kiko talk to Anjin through Mariko
good directing..... I feel it
I guess watching too much kdrama can do that to you
omg someone HAD to say it 😂 too much k/jdrama for the masses (aka me)
Everytime Lady Kiku is shown, there's always a sexual tension. She has a very seductive presence. This actress is just perfect for this role.
Which is funny because in real life that actress is nothing like that. The acting and makeup are superb.
The thing is, the tension is actually between Mariko and William. Miko is the proxy.
Really? I never felt that with her on screen. Whenever I see her, I imagine her more as a snake, seducing and intimidating.
The way the actress who plays Kiko is made up in the show, she has a striking resemblance to S Korea's Bae Suzy.
@@fungunsun1you don't know what she's like in real life.
"I beg thee stay. For thy honor and hers."
Kiku is my favorite. Very beautiful!!
They way Kiku looks Omi at the end, "dont worry my love it was just business"
Until she marries Blackthorne and Omi goes home to his wife.
Omi didn't do himself any favors. Falling in love with someone like Kiku is pure pain 😂 I think the actress is the most beautiful out of all of them, yet does such a great job portraying those dead eyes and that soulless expression.
@@mrkiky Damn... that's a very real observation
Kiku plays the lover to Omi, because he is the mayor of the town. Her only real admiration is for her Mistress Lady Gin, who conducts the tea house and reveres Kiku as her prize courtesan.
Kiku beautiful 😍
Gorgeous...
日本語訳
Mariko is just as fine.
The scene reminds me that the human condition is a painful place to be at times.
Described it perfectly
Spoken like a true Buddhist
...send up our sighs in this valley of tears.
Life all life is suffering.
People who nit pick this excellent series by comparing it to the book or the original series should just relax. Take it for what it is. The cinematography, the lighting, the intimacy of the scenes - even the not so sensual ones - are far superior to the original , IMO. That's a tough call, but that's what I think. The music score and over all audio experience is very much superior.
Having seen the original 1980 TV series which I thought was great, this remake is so much better.
The cinematography is overproduced and unnecessary to the point of distracting. The lighting is your typical drained color pallet that seems to be in EVERYTHING nowadays. Who the F cares about two actors bumping uglies on screen? Is this a historical series or a porno? Give me a tight script and decent locations...and actors who don't look and sound constipated.
I read the book several times and watched the original series. If I wanted to be pedantic about it I could pick holes in both TV versions but I'm very much aware that it's easy to be an armchair director and that the majority of viewers haven't read the book and probably wouldn't enjoy my version of the story - which would cover practically every page and go on for 30-40 hour-long episodes, sticking religiously to the text. As for this series, I share your views on every aspect of the presentation and can only add that I think the casting has been excellent and each character totally believable.
@@stuartdear1187 Amen
@@stuartdear1187 Agreed. But honestly both the TV series have pros and cons. This version is gorgeous in presentation but for me there was more chemistry between the characters in the original series.
I could listen to Kiku’s voice for hours.
"Uuuugh! . . Wanted to hear her say, " . . . for your return visit . . . We should not only make the trees shake . . . . . . . . . .But the leaves fall as well." :D
Was this in the books
goodness this show was exceptional. a small part of me wishes i could delete my memory of it so i could watch it fresh again.
Bro just got Oxford Studied in Feudal Japan
People come to this place have something they wish to forget, be it boredom, pain, hardship, disappointment.
I offer you relief from this, and safety, to create one perfect moment that you wish to inhabit completely.
Settle your eyes on what you desire, I ask you into my openness, I ask you to be here with me now.
same scene with the joytoy in cyberpunk 2077
I like how she makes use of the space. And the theme of a secret private world which mirrors the secret world of women and how they fight. She sits beside Mariko I'm her shadow so its like you're actually talking to Mariko. She can see the tension between them and she's "serving" them both. She knows they have feelings for each other and knows that the only comfort she can offer is privacy to be together. But Mariko refused.
They were Being Watched…privacy was an illusion
Tantric sexorzing there.
Better than any modern psychotherapy
I bet Kiku explained to Blackthorne how the time travel in Tenet vs Time travel in Endgame works (this is a reference to the actress doing it)
🤣
Please explain this joke to a dummy
Kiku: I care nothing for the barbarian.
Also Kiku: I am honoured to serve Anjin sama.
Them Japanese sure are somethin'.
She was a courtesan. She got paid to whisper whatever her customers wanted to hear .
Her voice is dreamy.
In the old version John is far more of a gentleman.
In the book too.
This new version of john blackthorne is more realistic to the times I'd say
@@lukefury8162 One can be realistically be a gentleman around a lady. I mean Blackthorne had been in Japan for months.
@@einezcrespo2107 he is very gentlemanly than the guys who came to Kiku , who were polite outside and horrible inside. John looked like whatever he was and that's why Kiku liked him .
@@einezcrespo2107 You really don't know anything about back then if you think all men were gentlemen, especially foreigners.
The book version of this visit is a little more... not graphic, but detailed? Suffice to say the lady was quite pleased with her time with the Anjin... to the point of almost overstepping the bounds of propiety with a fairly obvious look of longing.
Graphic sounds right... there were anal beads, if I recall correctly
The pulchritudinous Lady Kiku who wears the red kimono is portrayed by Japanese actress Yuka Kouri.
She is honored 🎖 means she feels respected!
Mariko really loved him and wasn't wanting any other woman with her man. "She is honored." Quick and short.😂😂😂😂
She was the worst translator ive ever seen lol. I actually think with her manipulation of interpretation she was really the most influential
Yuka Kouri and Anna Sawai are stunningly beautiful women.
The price for the evening was much higher than most of us realize. The experience cost roughly $900 in today's US dollars. That's roughly the price of women like Stormy Daniels and Karen McDougal. Unless we were billionaire real estate developers, we couldn't afford Kiku. Torrenaga is a generous man. He wouldn't have to pay hush money but cold steel.
The book said he paid a gold koban coin or 300 momen in the show which comes out to 22,500 usd in todays gold price.
@@zz3410koban was one _ryo_ of gold and ~16grams, far less than an ounce today
Most escorts I've ever seen are at least 700 an hour
You are a connoisseur I see LOL Think about it that $900 was for a whole night with an expert at pleasing men and not a washed up bikini model. @@gamemaster2311
約7000$ですよ
Kiku explains the Willow world and Mariko translates this for Blackthorne. As she does she is revealing herself to him again.
Kiku offers herself as a surrogate for the passion they cannot express for each other.
i felt so bad for Mariko i really hope she and Anjin can be together
_sumimasen_ :(
Torenaga ordered mariko to get john a courtesan as a test because he suspected her and john had feelings for each other. On top of that he wanted her to watch which she couldn't bare so she walked out. Even kiku and her mistress knew they had something going on😂 Pay attention to the "gestures"
Yuka Kouri was excellent as Kiku, but I still wonder if they'd considered Sonoya Mizuno for the role.
Shes too busy with HoTD
No, Sonoya doesn't look like the women of old Japan, she looks modern and mixed. The actress they have now is perfect and has a very seductive presence.
@@sabrinazurich2241 Really? I guess the White Worm wasn't killed after all. Nonetheless, she is _very_ busy, not least of all with Civil War and around 5 other projects.
"The Anjin must warn you, he is larger than other men. His member is three finger joints' long, not the ordinary two."
What does three finger joints long mean? Sorry English is my third language.
@@finalarbitrator4551 I'm joking. I'm suggesting that Japanese men have small penises, like in stereotype. But then I'm suggesting that Anjin-san is "big" by being only slightly larger than the Japanese men the geisha is used to. A finger joint is one of the bones in the finger. Each finger has three bones to it (the phalanges). I don't know what unit of measurement the Japanese were using at the end of the 16th Century AD, but it wouldn't be the Englishman's inches and feet. A finger would be a common point of reference between the two cultures. Also, a finger's length, whether two joints or three, would not be considered long, no matter who you are.
It would explain why Mariko reacted the way she did after getting some. She wasn't exactly in a hurry for more. I found her reaction less than believable otherwise ahahaha. Maybe poor Blackthorne has spent too many years at sea and doesn't know what he's doing.
Did John Blackthorne pillow Kiku actually or not? I am confused. Episode 7 mother courtesan said his mind is on Mariko i assume not? But in Japan of that time to not pillow is great shame
He did.
Yes they did. Take note of Mariko's jealousy when she changed the translation of Kiku's words. In the book Kiku and Mariko actually got along also in the 80's TV series.
I think you will enjoy your time in my Tea House. Some call it the Willow World, because my ladies are like lilies in a lake. There you will find no prying eyes from the outside world. All of this I guarantee…
… allow me to explain why the Willow World is among the most treasured planes of existence.
People who come to this place have something they wish to forget. Be it boredom, pain, hardship, or disappointment. They believe this place is about physical pleasure, which it is. But it can be more.
The people I meet wish for a different life or circumstance. They want to be anyplace other than where they are.
I offer you relief from this and safety to create one perfect moment that you wish to inhabit completely. Settle your eyes on what you desire. My unclothed form. Just as I am with nothing between us.
I ask you into my openness.
I ask you to be here with me now.
THANKS !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So.. did Blackthorne spent the night with the courtesan or not?
Kiku stated she was eager to receive anjin another time.
So, assume she enjoyed herself very much 😂
@@gentlebabariani mean it could be just that she's being polite, it is what she does
@rG1vZ there's a big difference between just being polite. And being polite with a intention.
@@rG1vZ Yes he did spend the night with Kiku. It's in the book and he enjoyed it very much. It was also in the 80's version.
いつもマリコとブラックソーンが一緒にいるのは奇妙な気がする。モデルの細川ガラシャは身分の高い女性だから、いつも外国人男性と一緒にいるのはあり得ない。
身分が低くて英語のできる架空の女性を設定したほうが、日本人としては受け入れやすい。
しかし、それでは原作と全く違う物語になってしまうから、真田広之さんとしては悩ましかっただろうね。
それでは大ヴィランである落ち葉の方と鞠子の因縁を表現できませんし、インテリじゃないヒロインでは、鞠子を核とする深く複雑な心理劇になり得ないですよね。難しいところですが。
1:15 Kiku is a girl's girl!
2:50 my HEART!
I read somewhere that Fuji is described in the novel to be ‘plain’ looking. In this 2024 film version, Fuji is definitely plain compared to Mariko and Kiku.
I still prefer Fuji, especially in this film. Her eyes are sparkling in every scene. Kiku and Mariko are gorgeous but I think Fuji has a more sense of pureness. That's what makes her so special.
Fuji is no less beautiful than Mariko, Kiku and Ochiba. While she may be the plain looking of them all, her face expression and gesture is second to none compared to the other female characters in the film.
And that made Fuji very attractive to see.
@@constantinelheman Plus she'll pull a gun on your enemies.
The actress and her portrayal of Fuji-san are on point!
@@projektkobra2247never mess with Fuji-no-Anjin :D
Blackthorne : Mariko, how do say your gluck gluck 2000 game is out of the world in Japanese .
Mariko: 😟
John 😂😂😂😂
0:30 0:34 3:03 3:24
What I'd the meaning of this?
The wall will be so fucking tall
Can you upload Buntaro’s “last stand”?
HE STILL STANDING BRO,,,,NOT DEAD
That definitely didn't go quite as written by Clavell...great production value though.
Not everything is good in the book and not everything would translate good from book to film neither.
Bro how you doesn't get copyright?
if got striked....RUclips CEO will have to be impeached and performed sepukku
Kiku sama～～～
Kiku sama～～～
Kiku sama～～～
Hei hei hooooooooooi ✊🏼
Did you see that bow at 2:36
In the book, Kiku ends up marrying Anjin after Mariko’s death at Toranaga’s order. I was hoping that they would include that in the end of the show.
In the 1980s version Anjin gives Kiku to Omi. Either was better than the 2024 of just leaving her character in the marsh of Edo.
Lets see if S2 answers that question
I do miss Shogun having colors; and I miss the more nuanced relationship from the books.
There are lots of people who get her name wrong in the comments here, calling her “kiko” or “miko” (even though it's in the title!) This is how Asians are treated in the Western world.....
He sounds like Richard Burton.
me when i go to tobita shinchi
Osaka?
its a real willow world.
yea boyy@@projektkobra2247
AKA High-Mileage Betty.
It's the same source
Kiku and Omi were far more amicable with Anjin-san at the end of the 80s Shogun.
Who will be the thst of you?
sexiest scene indeed
yeah. I loved it. mariko totally came when she was repeating her words. probably was so wet that time
@@dominicijavier1575bro?
@@dominicijavier1575you people are so disgustingly weird
I need that Kiku actress to make asmr
I don't think they even did it
You can't stay away
This isn't special service. It's profoundly exceptionally special service.
THE VIDEO IS SO DARK! THEY MUST NOT HAVE THE MONEY FOR GOOD LIGHTING LIKE THE ORIGINAL SERIES DECADES AGO.
She said, "Anjin", not, "barbarian" as shown in the subtitle.
菊は”banzin”(蛮人=野蛮人)といった。
@@fakepinky -Possibly....its a little garbled to my hearing.
when you watch this show, one can have the impressions that Japan is filled with hotties
日本女子のしたたかさ😌🇯🇵🗻👘
Bruh you can actually make Lady Kiku in Rise of the Ronin lol.
John was a player
Kiku looks like Kazuha Nakamura
Help and you limit intelligence
She's so hot❤
Champion 🏆
最高😂
たぶんもっとblackthornが出てくるシーンが多いエピソードのほうが人気なんだろうね
It's cool but frustrating how Mariko mistranslates basically everything in the entire show, no matter whether in official capacity or personal. I get that a huge part of the plot of the book/show is about unreliable translators, and also it would be maybe a boring waste of screen time to have Mariko read the subtitles to you. But still, it kinda makes me begrudge her
Everyone's having some weird facial expressions.
You can't read its already over
While yobbo actor is very likely far more in keeping with the real William Adams...Snarky, bratty Mariko is a damn poor replacement for the divine Yoko Shimada in that role.
日本人が聴いても難解なシーンだ・・・。🤔
Shy? Disturbing? Awkward? It is understandable.
Kiku>Fuji>Mariko
Why would an unmarried killer call me as a fucking telepath?
I much preferred the 1980 SHOGUN's version of this sequence. Other than Blackthorne, the characters weren't nearly as blatant with their feelings of annoyance and discomfort with the situation.
Agreed 💯
As opposed to the actual book lol.
Actually in the novel Blackthorne nearly annoyed Omi after he broached the subject of Kiku. They nearly came to blows.
For authenticity, I prefer this show any day as it was conducted by a true Japanese production. Some elements from the book (like character names) were also changed for the show as they were inconsistent with the Edo period
まりこ様の日本的でないエキゾチックなお顔と表情がすごく気になってしまう、、
それも本物の日本女性と対峙しているときに特に。
自分の応援したい人を上げるために誰かを下げるキャンペーン。私達はしないな。
She's Japanese 😊
アンナサワイさんを下げてるつもりは全くなかったのですが…
彼女はニュージーランドやフィリピンなどインターナショナルな生い立ちなので、日本人ですが表情やお顔立ちがずっと日本で育った日本人とは異なります。着物の所作も今回初めて学んだそうです。
そういった内からでる雰囲気がこの時代の女性として見た時に違和感を感じます。
グローバルに活躍される素晴らしい女優さんだとは思いますが、ネイティブすぎる英語も果たして相応しいのでしょうか、、
それが彼女を非常にユニークなものにしているので、彼女はカトリックの通訳の役割を担っています
日本人らしくないとは思いませんでした。。
従来のほかの映画の中では、日本人の顔をしている役者が、日本人がやらない笑顔や表情の作り方をすると、日本育ちではない役者を使うから違和感でまくっておるわと立腹してきたのですが、今回その手の日本人じゃないを感じた部分はないです（唯一、網代の港に集結の兵隊の後列が緊張感不足で、とても日本人には見えない、とわかってしまう点が例外）。鞠子は表情の少ない役なのでますます日本人らしくないとは感じるチャンスが減っているかと。
I get that the Chinese, Koreans and Japanese are all proud of their cultures. I just wish so many of them weren't so....superior about it. Civilization comes in many different flavors, and not everyone outside your culture is automatically a barbarian.
same goes for any Americans and Europeans who all think that everything outside the West are all “3rd World” lol.
everyone not from your culture is a barbarian. blame it on the greeks
Oh we also think of each other are barbarians and savages too. It is feel it is more of a human thing.
Lol you know any country that was an advanced nation at a time but not looking down on less civilized neighbors? Ever since the day one in Egypt? Besides Koreans were in the position to look up its neighboring counties for centuries as their country was a vessel state of China so even own Kings despite own language and pressed their nobles to speak Chinese until Japan defeated China and annexed and modernized it drastically
It’s hilarious if you think so. When Europeans arrived in India and South East Asia, the natives called them barbarians no matter how advanced their technology and weaponry were. The Europeans also called the natives savages in return too. It’s our human nature that we perceive anything outside of our culture to be barbaric and foreign.
What's driving my disappointment in this version is they're constantly leaving the deeper emotions in the story un-filmed and unexplored. Not that the book is a sacred text but the author chose his moments. When Kiku asks Blackthorne about his homeland, it's then it fully hits him how different, AND GRIMY his previous life was and he realizes what he's GAINED and lost. The two writers here just glide by it. When Toranaga calls the troops to order, or the "only if you win" scene are all flatter than they should be in impact. No amount of blood and gore porn is going to cover up this lack of drama. I don't think the screenwriters had the capability to explore the deeper meanings of the book which is weird because they're RIGHT THERE spelled out.
I'm pretty well checking out. It's been a disappointment and could've been better.
Yuka Kouri
なぜ「蛮人」をbarbarianって訳にしたのか。ニュアンス的にはalienかforeigner程度だ
虎永が「異人」と呼んでるのもbarbarianにしちゃってるし・・
こちらに至っては完全にforeignerで良い
蠻人 means uncivilized foreginer so Barbarian is pretty accurate translation " 蛮人は未開の種族または人を意味します。したがって、バーバリアンは間違った解釈ではありません"
@@jlee4918
日本史に詳しい外国人のつべ動画の解説もあったけどニュアンスの問題だよ
英語でbarbarianってけっこうキツイ響きだから当事の日本人が使う蛮人や南蛮人のニュアンスとは明確に異なります
たぶん、英語圏の人には伝わってないです。ニュアンスのすり合わせは非常に難しいですね。日本語と英語は全く違う言語なので。
南蛮あるいは蛮は、中国における南西方面の帰順しない異民族の蔑称。
その思想が日本にも伝わり、五色島・薩摩七島・琉球、東南アジア方面を
指す言葉となって、その方面から来た西洋人にもそのように呼んだ。
理由は、礼儀作法が大きく異なっていたことで野蛮視されていたから。
（土足であがる、唾を吐く、肉食を好むなど）
小説→脚本→日本語化(日本人脚本家,大学教授,歴史研究家)→
再英訳→字幕化（物凄い努力と検討、調整、時間をかけている）
その上での"barbarian"であり妥当と言える。
A 'barbarian' is a completely appropriate word for Blackthorne from the Japanese perspective. He is not merely a foreigner but also considered to not be someone possessing civilized status.
show has been amazing, this episode was the first one where i think they were going a litttttttle heavy on the femanism side but hey.....the name of the episode had me expecting it.
yeah man god forbid we see women as people
It is understandable that this drama is not as popular in Japan as it is abroad. Japanese period dramas are not so cruel and heavy-handed and focus on the goodness of people.I think this drama is made with the prejudice that Japanese people are barbaric, just because they are faithful to their manners, buildings and kimonos.
It’s literally made by a Japanese producer, with Japanese actors, and several Japanese historical experts.
@@emilyrainflower25
The producers and actors are Japanese, but this drama is based on a British remake and the script is also written by a Westerner.
Most Japanese stopped watching the original Shogun drama in the 1980s halfway through because it was cruel and barbaric. Viewing ratings were low. This drama is produced by Hiroyuki Sanada, so the Japanese customs and buildings are accurate, but not the actual history of Japan. It is a fiction using Japanese history. It is true that in the 1600s Japan was in a state of civil war, but as the Portuguese missionary Luis Frois wrote, women walked alone. He also wrote that peasants watched the samurai fighting while eating onigiri (rice balls). At that time, basically no one was killed except the warriors. Also, there is no history of foreigners who drifted ashore being boiled in a kettle and killed for no crime.
The people of that era in general are fairly "barbaric" if we compare them to a post-Geneva convention mentality.
Keep in mind the writer of this story wrote what he knew from his perspective, and he was not entirely accurate, though due to his efforts a lot of people became fascinated with the idea of getting to know Japan more in the latter half of the 20th century.
Japan was no exception to barbaric behavior, though they had their own style, they preferred cutting heads off corpses to identify them after the fact as a means of prestige bargaining, which some other cultures probably would argue was a bad practice...Europeans preferred their nobles mostly alive for ransom money.
I am not too wild about the boiling alive scene, given that was a very rare thing, and as another channel pointed out: Henry VIII did far more boiling of people than virtually anybody else did, and even other European monarchs thought that was a savage thing to do.
I think we can cut the creators of this show just a little bit of slack.
Thank god this bs comment has zero likes
@@lapislazuli1012the book the show is based on is fiction
You know he gave her that smoke! Asian men have small wallets 🤔
Waste of a episode. Waited a whole week for nothing meaningful until the end and now we have to wait another week for the main story to continue…
Totally agree just dragging out the Episode 😏
If you watched game of thrones, you know why good things must take time. Idk what I'm saying but please be patient. Lol
I want to watch them all! I hate waiting a week!
damn, you sure hate mariko
hate to break it to you buddy, but blackthorne and mariko IS the main storyline...
This scene looks like a kid sulking.