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I think Age of Mythology had an interesting way around dealing with people who would hide units/structures all over the map. There was an upgrade you could buy that revealed the entire map, but the price was scaled up by how many units your opponent had remaining. If your opponent was trying to troll and hide a couple units then you just buy this upgrade for cheap and they couldn't hide
"but the price was scaled up by how many units your opponent had remaining" so, you tell me, that I could just check the price of one upgrade to estimate how much army my oponent have? Sounds like something that could be abused.
@@axh2 You could do that but there was no need, most games from that time period had scores which pretty much showed or let you guess corectly enemies army/economy. Also this was a feature found in few games from 2000s era, Cossacks was anoher popular game from that period that had it. It was pretty much just to help you clean up map after you won or almost won, Also back then having game enders was popular, either super units and buildings/op technology like map hack or super boost to economy or power/wonders or similar timed conditions. They were usually very expensive, so you only build them if you were already massively ahead, or your oponent made a mistake and let you, since they usualy cost the equivelent of few hundred units.
I like it when RTS games have many win conditions. Making "kill all buildings" the main win condition but then only letting one faction have flying buildings with infinite fuel...not great design!
Terran - most of your buildings can fly, but you waste your resources and your workers time to repair them. Every single structure can burn if it is damaged enough. You need to place a lot of buildings to produce units. Your structures should be placed smart, to help you in defense. You are wasting your workers time to build structures instead of gaining resources, but you have MULES! You can upgrade your main building into huge canon (the strongest static structure in the game, but it can shoot only ground units). Your faction offers the best and most effective defensive options. You can build a radar that detects the presence of enemy units over a large area. Zerg - your buildings are very cheap and you don't need a lot of them, but they need to be builded on the creep, you need to sacrifice one worker to build a structure. Your buildings loses health if they are out of creep. But if your buildings are placed on creep they can slowly regenerate their health for free or you can heal them with one of your basic units. If destroyed they will create broodlings, which can kill enemy units, but exists less than 6 seconds. You are the only race that can create flying units (which are perfect for scouting) instead of buildings, to gain more supply for your army. Additionally you can build for almost free (only first use costs energy) structures that buffs speed of your units, gives you vision and doesn't allow your enemies to build their structures on it. Protoss - first at all you must learn to build the wall if you don't want to be destroyed by zerglings or scouted by reapers. It's not that easy, even for GSL players. Most of your structures must be placed on power field generated by pylons - buildings which gives you supply for your army. Out of power field your buildings are totally useless (be aware of Artosis Pylon). You are not wasting life or time of your workers to create buildings. All your buildings (and units) have shield, which regenerates for free in very short amount of time. You can build cheap structure, which can regenerate shields of your buildings (and units). You have powerful defensive ability which increases power of this structure. Additionally you have strong static, defensive structure, which is the only building that can shoot to the ground units, sky units and detects invisible units. Your main building can teleport to itself your whole army from any place of the map. For me it's fair.
Regarding Idra - I've seen his interviews, in which he spoke about both games and why he thought they were unwinable and I must say - his arguments were valid.
C&C Generals is quite unique on its own - you can have unlimited army since the money can be infinite, yet - due to super-weapons - stalemates are none-existent. + One cannot beat its OST!
Huh, Supreme Commander reminds me of another very similar game, Planetary Annihilation Titans, it has the same rule of "This is your avatar, don't die." Theirs only 2 resources, Metal, That's harvested by mines and is unlimited, but will deplete very quickly untill you add a tier 2 mine on top, and multiple mines, and energy, where it's also unlimited, but you just need to build the power plant or units with solar power. These resources can get limited if you destroy planets however! And is the best way to eliminate commanders or titans, as they can tank the damage of a nuke. Plus theirs also anti-Nukes and entire planets can be used as war factories.
@@icyknightmare4592planetary annihilation is a spiritual successor to total annihilation the economy is about the same with what the gathered resources are, the way to proceed in tech is the same with basic and advanced instead of tiers and upgrading buildings, your units do not gain veterancy, neither can your commander be upgraded
08:39 - the crown example that SC2 gave us too much info and how a game could be ecstatic without it. (To those who don't know - the time counter was invisible due to some bug.)
personally i do like the "assassination" gamemode of supreme commander and the total annihilation-likes the best you have a tough and powerful startingunit that however becomes more threatened as the game goes on ... though defeating the player through outproducing him or destroying his bases and as such force a surrender still applies ... however if the player who's about to lose still has some significant striking force left he can always try a commandersnipe with a bomber or gunship force, in supreme commander tactical missiles are a serious threat as well ... or get a dropship with high tier units on the enemy commander ... one of the factions even had banelingesque suicidebots ... this allowed for much more creativity besides the usual rts approaches ... and caused the occasional upset ...
How can you rak about win conditions and not mention AoE2? Regicide is super interesting and the mode where you have to destroy the enemys tc and cant make new ones completely changes the game. AoE2 is far superior to aoe4, sad that you always onoy include the latter.
There's nothing more infuriating than a salty player abusing the win conditions and not leaving the game out of spite. The game not being able to end unless all buildings or units are destroyed is such a terrible win condition, It should be avoided as the only possible one in all future RTS-es at all costs.
Man, you need to work on your pronunciation. At the end there I was scratching my head about what was being data-mined and only later realised you were trying to say "determine"...
@@MrTBSC im disappointed from it. As a sc player from the first hour, its really just a copy, including same openings in 1vs1. Maybe the commander coop gets better. But its really time for different landscapes like desert, ice, vulcanic, and so on.
Classic rts refers to base building, and fielding armies that you can replace. Company of heroes is more like dawn of war 2 in its muchmore focused on squad mechanics, keeping units alive vs just building an unstoppable base set up and winning through bodies
@@EsportsStorytellerwouldn't call CoH RTT at all ... rtt is more for games such as Commandos or Mechcommander with only a handfull and very limited specialised units ... CoH simply has a smaller scale ... instead of dropping a city leveling nuke you call in an air or artillerystrike or throw the occacional anti-infantry or anti vehicle grenade ... the "classic" rts rules still apply though ... you have your corebase in a corner with building a handfull of buildings that produces units ... however losing any of them is much more punishing cause instead of 200 to a thousand units you have only like 20 to 30 and they are not easily replaced ...
AOE is the only game with enough races and units. sc2 is the only one with enough tempo or u can actually win by hurting economy. wc3 original mode is just a disaster, there is nothing to like except the outstanding graphic compare to aoe and sc1 🤣
If you're referring to Reforged Graphic, then that's a terrible criteria for your "outstanding graphics". It's a terrible graphic to have in an RTS. As for it's classic gameplay, it's actually one of the best. The not too many units, while the super deep but easy to learn interaction allows new players to easily get on while completely mastering it is very difficult. (Given that you use its classic graphics, cause the Reforged art style is just a really bad art direction).
Our detailed video about SC2 draws - ruclips.net/video/aBc_DswObnM/видео.htmlsi=_IOP3h1r1iw7x_Bc
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& My personal SC2 Channel - www.youtube.com/@Gaming_Essays
"no race has an ability to generate extra money out of nowhere"
Supply drop has entered the chat
Also I'm kidding it is true that for all intents and purposes no race creates money
supply bunkers from mengsk coop with salvage ?
I think Age of Mythology had an interesting way around dealing with people who would hide units/structures all over the map. There was an upgrade you could buy that revealed the entire map, but the price was scaled up by how many units your opponent had remaining. If your opponent was trying to troll and hide a couple units then you just buy this upgrade for cheap and they couldn't hide
"but the price was scaled up by how many units your opponent had remaining" so, you tell me, that I could just check the price of one upgrade to estimate how much army my oponent have? Sounds like something that could be abused.
@@axh2 You could do that but there was no need, most games from that time period had scores which pretty much showed or let you guess corectly enemies army/economy.
Also this was a feature found in few games from 2000s era, Cossacks was anoher popular game from that period that had it. It was pretty much just to help you clean up map after you won or almost won,
Also back then having game enders was popular, either super units and buildings/op technology like map hack or super boost to economy or power/wonders or similar timed conditions. They were usually very expensive, so you only build them if you were already massively ahead, or your oponent made a mistake and let you, since they usualy cost the equivelent of few hundred units.
That comes from AoE2. I don't remember how the AoM tech worked, but in the former it was 200 gold per each enemy villiger.
How to win RTS?
Dont play against Serral.
I like it when RTS games have many win conditions.
Making "kill all buildings" the main win condition but then only letting one faction have flying buildings with infinite fuel...not great design!
Terran - most of your buildings can fly, but you waste your resources and your workers time to repair them. Every single structure can burn if it is damaged enough. You need to place a lot of buildings to produce units. Your structures should be placed smart, to help you in defense. You are wasting your workers time to build structures instead of gaining resources, but you have MULES! You can upgrade your main building into huge canon (the strongest static structure in the game, but it can shoot only ground units). Your faction offers the best and most effective defensive options. You can build a radar that detects the presence of enemy units over a large area.
Zerg - your buildings are very cheap and you don't need a lot of them, but they need to be builded on the creep, you need to sacrifice one worker to build a structure. Your buildings loses health if they are out of creep. But if your buildings are placed on creep they can slowly regenerate their health for free or you can heal them with one of your basic units. If destroyed they will create broodlings, which can kill enemy units, but exists less than 6 seconds. You are the only race that can create flying units (which are perfect for scouting) instead of buildings, to gain more supply for your army. Additionally you can build for almost free (only first use costs energy) structures that buffs speed of your units, gives you vision and doesn't allow your enemies to build their structures on it.
Protoss - first at all you must learn to build the wall if you don't want to be destroyed by zerglings or scouted by reapers. It's not that easy, even for GSL players. Most of your structures must be placed on power field generated by pylons - buildings which gives you supply for your army. Out of power field your buildings are totally useless (be aware of Artosis Pylon). You are not wasting life or time of your workers to create buildings. All your buildings (and units) have shield, which regenerates for free in very short amount of time. You can build cheap structure, which can regenerate shields of your buildings (and units). You have powerful defensive ability which increases power of this structure. Additionally you have strong static, defensive structure, which is the only building that can shoot to the ground units, sky units and detects invisible units. Your main building can teleport to itself your whole army from any place of the map.
For me it's fair.
Regarding Idra - I've seen his interviews, in which he spoke about both games and why he thought they were unwinable and I must say - his arguments were valid.
C&C Generals is quite unique on its own - you can have unlimited army since the money can be infinite, yet - due to super-weapons - stalemates are none-existent. + One cannot beat its OST!
Huh, Supreme Commander reminds me of another very similar game, Planetary Annihilation Titans, it has the same rule of "This is your avatar, don't die."
Theirs only 2 resources, Metal, That's harvested by mines and is unlimited, but will deplete very quickly untill you add a tier 2 mine on top, and multiple mines, and energy, where it's also unlimited, but you just need to build the power plant or units with solar power.
These resources can get limited if you destroy planets however! And is the best way to eliminate commanders or titans, as they can tank the damage of a nuke.
Plus theirs also anti-Nukes and entire planets can be used as war factories.
PA was originally supposed to be a spiritual successor to Supreme Commander. Many of the mechanics are very similar between them.
@@icyknightmare4592planetary annihilation is a spiritual successor to total annihilation the economy is about the same with what the gathered resources are, the way to proceed in tech is the same with basic and advanced instead of tiers and upgrading buildings, your units do not gain veterancy, neither can your commander be upgraded
08:39 - the crown example that SC2 gave us too much info and how a game could be ecstatic without it. (To those who don't know - the time counter was invisible due to some bug.)
I still remember playing total annihilation free for all match, and kamikazeing the player who defeated me.
It's adorable, that you used Derp's meme as Supreme Commander footage
Me by the very end- ok so the title is super literal
Win condition kill townhall or go for wonder.
personally i do like the "assassination" gamemode of supreme commander and the total annihilation-likes the best
you have a tough and powerful startingunit that however becomes more threatened as the game goes on ...
though defeating the player through outproducing him or destroying his bases and as such force a surrender still applies ... however if the player who's about to lose still has some significant striking force left he can always try a commandersnipe with a bomber or gunship force, in supreme commander tactical missiles are a serious threat as well ... or get a dropship with high tier units on the enemy commander ... one of the factions even had banelingesque suicidebots ... this allowed for much more creativity besides the usual rts approaches ... and caused the occasional upset ...
2:57 does anyone know why they were watching that game as a replay? Weren't Idra and Huk playing live?
How can you rak about win conditions and not mention AoE2?
Regicide is super interesting and the mode where you have to destroy the enemys tc and cant make new ones completely changes the game.
AoE2 is far superior to aoe4, sad that you always onoy include the latter.
I'm relatively new in RTS scene but to my understanding, Starcraft players tend to like and play more AoE4 than AoE2.
Nice vid keep it up!
There's nothing more infuriating than a salty player abusing the win conditions and not leaving the game out of spite. The game not being able to end unless all buildings or units are destroyed is such a terrible win condition, It should be avoided as the only possible one in all future RTS-es at all costs.
Well that is real word cases 😅
Please show more clips of Kanes Wrath games. RA3 ain't a good C&C for useful material.
Man, you need to work on your pronunciation. At the end there I was scratching my head about what was being data-mined and only later realised you were trying to say "determine"...
sadly, stormgate ist just a ssc2 clone with look like wc3. New players love it, old players hate it.
let haters hate then, meanwhile the others have their fun ... not every rts game has to cater to the same type of player
@@MrTBSC im disappointed from it. As a sc player from the first hour, its really just a copy, including same openings in 1vs1. Maybe the commander coop gets better. But its really time for different landscapes like desert, ice, vulcanic, and so on.
what do you mean by "company of heroes is far from being a classic rts title" lol? it's one of the best rts ever made
Classic rts refers to base building, and fielding armies that you can replace. Company of heroes is more like dawn of war 2 in its muchmore focused on squad mechanics, keeping units alive vs just building an unstoppable base set up and winning through bodies
CoH is often considered as RTT which is a sub genre for RTS
@@EsportsStorytellerwouldn't call CoH RTT at all ... rtt is more for games such as Commandos or Mechcommander with only a handfull and very limited specialised units ... CoH simply has a smaller scale ... instead of dropping a city leveling nuke you call in an air or artillerystrike or throw the occacional anti-infantry or anti vehicle grenade ... the "classic" rts rules still apply though ... you have your corebase in a corner with building a handfull of buildings that produces units ... however losing any of them is much more punishing cause instead of 200 to a thousand units you have only like 20 to 30 and they are not easily replaced ...
AOE is the only game with enough races and units. sc2 is the only one with enough tempo or u can actually win by hurting economy. wc3 original mode is just a disaster, there is nothing to like except the outstanding graphic compare to aoe and sc1 🤣
I don't understand what do you mean by "AOE is the only game with enough races and units" which AOE you reffering to?
Wc3 is great, every unit is super important and heroes bring so much to the game
If you're referring to Reforged Graphic, then that's a terrible criteria for your "outstanding graphics". It's a terrible graphic to have in an RTS.
As for it's classic gameplay, it's actually one of the best. The not too many units, while the super deep but easy to learn interaction allows new players to easily get on while completely mastering it is very difficult. (Given that you use its classic graphics, cause the Reforged art style is just a really bad art direction).