Hand Drag Drill For High Edge Angle Carving
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- Опубликовано: 28 сен 2024
- Do you find you can carve well on green and blue runs but when it gets a little steeper you just can’t manage the pressure and your speed keeps getting faster and faster? And the only way to slow down is to skid your turns? If this sounds like you then this video could be just what you need to make a breakthrough with this problem. Follow the progression Tom Gellie lays out for two skiers that gives them control, smoothness and pure exhilarating carving fun on steeper runs.
In this video
- Why progressive edging is key to controlling your speed and turn shape
- Hand Drag J Turns
- Linking Hand drag turns
- Common problems when trying to progressively build edge angles for carving and how to fix them
- Real life students improving with this progression
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WAW just WAW. I'm a highly skilled skier and instructor in belgium and I don't think I've ever seen people improve this much from just one drill. Will definently try next time!
ik ga hetzelfde doen. 😎
those skills should know every carver and youre trying to tell me, you were not familiar with it?
@@pliskind He is familiar with the skills you need as a carver, he is not familiar with this drill is what I am reading. I also consider myself a skilled carver, but I have never seen this drill before. I will try it next month on my ski vacation and see how it goes
Awesome tutorial! While I can carve, I feel these drills can take me to the next level. Can't wait to try them.
The orange dude did SO well and made so much progress. Inspirational and great instruction and learning. Thank you.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Eric, this video is fantastic. I have tried to explain this to people in the past, but have had a hard time. Everything we are ever taught is to angulate against the turn, but there comes a point where it is counterproductive. I have shared this video with dozens of expert life long skiers that have been missing this last piece in the progression.
I have found that it is important to remind people while working on this to start looking back uphill in between turns because you start making moves others do not anticipate.
You are a beautiful skier. Thank you for sharing.
when should you angulate?
This is exactly where I am on the learning curve. Can’t wait to try this and finally break through to the next level!
Tom this has to be the most important break through tip for carving. Creates such a stable platform with no slippage Less effort, more control and consistently clean turns. Straightening the inside leg to initiate the next turn makes linking the turns super easy. Revolutionary thank you.
Wonderful to hear Steve. Thanks for sharing your results.
Hi from Czech Republic. I've never seen a better explanation. Awesome drill for carving. Thanks a lot!
Thanks and hello back to you!
I'm an expert skier....wow this has improved my ski....way more consistent now. Thanks so much!
Great to hear!
This is by far the best video I've seen in youtube! Thank Tom for this, I feel like I've improved so much though still not quite same level as Eric (definitely not the same level as Tom 😆). Will keep practicing! At the moment, I just feel like my legs are a bit too open/wide...
I tried this in January in Breck, trying to touch my inside hand and dragging the pole and it was a game changer on large radius turns! Thanks!
Love this one! Sounds silly but I still have vivid memories of the most fun I’ve ever had on skis and it was doing this drill. The point about this helping to teach the topple rather than being overly angulated between the hips and torso really resonated as something I want to work on when I’m next on snow too.
We had that same drill at Mt. Baldy in California. I remember the head instructor Dr. Jacques telling me to ski without the poles. I was also an instructor and couldn't believe how I was able to ski what I considered difficult earlier with ski poles. This was in 2007. My point is that it's an excellent technique and that good instructors push for it for very good reasons.
The absolutly best explanation how to improve carving in steep terrain I have seen so far. I will copy these exercises :) Thanks for the great video.
20 years ago I started dragging my hand to help me not stivot the top of the turn in gs courses.. it definitely cured wanting to stivy when in countering scary tracks above gate.. interestingly enough it also made running super tight slalom courses doable…
Damn! I've learn so much in last 20 minutes!
Excited to try this in a week in Flachau
Awesome tutorial!!! I tried to touch the snow with pole this whole season but cannot do so. Now I just noticed that I should be the one with too much angulation lol. Cant wait to try without pole! Thank you Tom
Clear, complete and super useful lesson. Gonna try as soon as I can. Thank you!
Awesome video, look forward to trying this.
Eric sweeping his arms back literally looks like he’s flying. Must’ve been an amazing sensation!
He was so happy
Eric = top of the class!
That was an awesome progression. I think this is it for me. Thanks Tom!
I am almost there, I hope I get to touches still this season in the next couple of weeks.
Gonna try this this weekend!
Could be one of your best videos yet!!!
Thanks Ed
That's an incredible improvement in just one day! It only took one relatively effortless drill.
Yes it was!
Awesome video! Even though I’m already comfortable with dragging my knuckles, I’ve never really focused on this action. I will definitely try to actively think about this action. Looking forward to future tutorials on how to further increase your edge angles so that you can drag your inside knee on the snow.
Glad it was helpful!
Amazing. Thank you so much for this fantastic video, Tom.
You’re welcome
Thanks for your videos, they are really helping me as well as my seven year old, he started skiing in 2022, and started doing this drill 2 days ago, without any coaching from me. We have watched many of your videos together and one day about 6 weeks ago, out of the blue, he started practicing one ski skiing, I never told him anything about it, I think he just picked it up from your videos, listening to what you say and then starts attempting it on his own.
How cool! Tell him I love that he’s doing this from watching the videos and to keep it up!
@@Bigpictureskiing I will definitely tell him that Coach Tom says to keep it up! He is going to a new ski area for the first time tomorrow and excitedly came to tell me all his bags were packed, he said his goal is to keep working on 180s and his carving skills. P.S. The video where you taught the lady how skiing on one ski would boost her ability really affected him, that seems to have been a turning point for him. I didn't push him at all, he just started doing it.
Wow, the effect of Big Picture Skiing on kids seems to be not a coincidence, then!
My 6yo started one-ski skiing on her own as well, also based off my mutterings from Sam Robertson’s Emma videos. She actually got *me* to do it.
Too bad our season ended before she got to try the hand drag drill (luckily, I did, to thrilling success!), but she’s bound to be doing ninja sessions of it next winter I’m sure!
@@kuanjuliu Yes, there is going to be a whole new crop of great skiers that will be able to trace their beginnings to these videos. Wish we had this when I was 7!
@@SkiProgression I wish I *started* skiing at 7! 🤣
Skiing is a braingame de luxe. Daring and getting aware and voila. ❤
Ooo. Great stuff Real pro
Compliments
What a great video! And it turns out that my favorite Sunpeaks run is Blazer, so it's nice to see the drills on it!! 🥰 Saving this for review in November! Thank you!
Thank you man!
No worries
such a great drill....can't wait to test it out.
Hope you enjoy it!
Best vid I have seen
Always the best videos. Thanks.
Really nice video! many thanks! I will certainly be trying this out! many thanks !
Let us know how you go!
Tom, I really like all your carving instructions and particularly interested in this one for increasing edge angle. I have a CARV IQ of 134 and typical edge angle of 50-60 with an occasional 70. But still I don't feel I carve with high enough angle and not really connecting turns with perfect archs. I am 57 and not sure if it's a flexibility thing? I did try to reach the snow with my hand but feel hard to (probably not angulated enough because of flexibility limitation?) Now I see your drill and really want to try it out in my next skiing. Now the question, were the two kids really how they were like before the drill, or just acting to be like a less perfect carver? I look more like them before the drill and much less like after the drill. I really hope it's true that the drill can allow them improve so much in a day!
Excellent presentation and results!👏
Can’t wait to try this I have the same problem with steeper terrain
Let us know. Ive had a lot of people try it and have built breakthroughs in one day
Great video, excellent drill. Everyone skied very well
Glad you enjoyed it
I'm DYING to try Handies! Nothing like flying downhill and getting into the "G's" whilst swooping S's.....
Hats of to you if you can carve on a green slope, I can only go straight there or skate or walk.
I can see the merits of this exercise to improve carving. I grimaced when I watched the video as I flashed back to the days I sustained injuires to both thumbs (skiers thumb). It is very important to understand the proper positioning of the hands, the timing, and the need to practice this move until it becomes habit.
Outstanding drills…thank you!
My frustration is that I just left the mountain 2 days ago. Now I have wait another 300 days to try this out.
I’ll be shopping for some good carving skis off-season… any recommendations?
Oh sorry about the timing. Ok carving skis. I’d say look for a medium radius (15-17m radius) and around 170-180cm. The longer the more stable. So depending on your height and weight. I really like my 175cm 16m radius skis I use here from Fischer. Im 179cm tall and weigh 73kg
I was on the slope last week! I wish I had watched this video before that :(((( Though, I felt it was easier to increase the edge angle on the steeper slopes.
@@Bigpictureskiing Great video Tom. That smile on his face says it all. Advanced skier but not a great carver. Can I expect similar results from a 102mm reasonably stiff ski? 18m radius. Heading to the mountains next week. Thanks
@@reddottx no not from those skis. Rent some narrow carve skis 70mm underfoot or roughly there. 14-16 m radius too
Fabulous tutorial ⛷️
Thank you
I know I am gonna be that happy someday.
Hey Tom...this is brilliant! I've been wanting to learn this technique for a few years. You did a fabulus job explaining how it's done. I tried it today on a very blue beginners run at Palisades at Tahoe. I think I'm starting to get the feel of it. I will keep trying. Thank you for taking the time to enlighten us on this. This is the best video I've seen on this type of turn. Well done my friend.
Awesome, thank you!
I have not watched all of this but instinctively, and for the first time ever watching anything you have offered Tom, I think this is putting the cart before the horse. I am really a student challenging the master here, but my best high edge angle skiing has come from driving my new down hill ski away from me like a runner out of the block with symmetrical retraction of the uphill ski. The power I get from timing the turn on my down hill ski and the control coming from the edge angle of my uphill ski creates the angle. If I my hand gets on the snow great, if not, as you guys say "no worries" but reaching with you hand... and when it gets steep? I think you need to clarify.
Watch the whole thing and then comment is what I’d suggest. It’s a drill.
Your “driving inside knee” a la Deb Armstrong is fully compatible with this drill, just as any other method of pressuring the ski at apex. I know, because I also practice that method of “stacking” myself over the outside ski - but I also know that I was too scared to try for higher edge angles because I didn’t know how to approach the aggressive inclination (not angulation) needed. This drill changed all that - but I still “sprint” at the apex!
And I would note the the “long leg-short leg” is much more apparent at high speed/high slope angle. In general your downhill/outside let’s knee is still bent, NOT LOCKED OUT, but that the inside, driving knee is bent slight more to ‘get out of the way’ of the high edge angle of the outside ski.
Perfect video for me. I'm a master at carving until things get too steep for my 60 year old legs.
This is amazing tanks !
What is the best ski radius for carbone like that? Thanks!
Super cool drill ❤ thank you ❤❤❤
wow it seems amazing
Fantastic. Was working on this today at Whistler. When I got lower on the hill and the snow got slushy I found that my outside boot/binding (?) would occasionally “catch” on the snow as I tried to get really low and angled. It was like being tripped. The first time I was not expecting at all and had a spectacular wipeout. I’m on 88 skis and Griffon bindings. Any suggestions Tom?
That snow just will do that. Not ideal for higher edge angle turns more so for short turns and bumps. At least that’s what I like to ski when the snow gets that way
Tried the J turn, fell and hurt my leg, nothing too serious, maybe with some luck i can go ski to Lapland. Season might be over for me. Tho I managed to get confident enough to touch the snow with me left hand couple of times. Which was my goal for this year.
This really is an expert drill. Don’t forget the fundamentals before expecting results. The skiers in this video, particularly the one in orange, are the perfect candidates for this type of maneuver.
I hope you are back on snow this winter.
@@alexnelson8 Got back to slopes this year. Getting better everytime.
Hi Tom, thank a lot for awsome video. Can you clarify please what kind of ski radius is a best fit for such drills. Is it ok for short radius skis like a slalom?
This is a 15.5m radius 175cm ski. 66mm underfoot so narrow. I find people are on too wide skis these days and it stops them being able to learn to carve. Sure if you’re already and expert it’s fine but mastering carving you want a narrower ski. 12-18m radius in there somewhere and 65-80mm underfoot max!
@@Bigpictureskiingthis is the 100% correct answer. Wider skis are very fun and can allow for a higher edge angle before you boot out, but the transition between edges is much slower and can take more width to get there. Start narrow and then work your way wider.
How to incline without banking? We used to coach dragging DOWNHILL hand?
it's the end of the season, lol ... or you in australia. ... great tips, thanks.still got a week to practice.
I think I focus too much on separating my skis than proper body position of leg extension and flexion, so I'm still putting way to much weight on my inside skis, can't really go that low. I would assume you still feel majority of the weight on the outside skis
Yea but it more comes from turn forces as the ski progressively edges and bends more
Name of the jacket that ur wearing?
Dope ❤
Every time I lay my skis over they wash out and I end up on my hip. I often wonder if it's from the 1000's of rails that I've slid on my skis 🤔
Hi tom
Thanks for great video
I tried your drill and it worked excellent but others say it looks somehow that I'm back seated
Can tell me where is problem ?
should i bend forward more from waist?
Our don't bend my knees more for reaching ground?
Or should i try lean while body?
Where the backseated look come from?
Thank you tom
Me, a skier that is still struggling with parallel turns, nodding at the drills saying “this looks helpful”
Tom, your skiing is impeccable, as your demo’s and explanations. Can you elaborate on a little hop I see on initiation. It appears as if the tails come off the snow and pivot (rotate) about the tip to set the new direction. Is this due to trying to shorten the radius and get onto the new edge sooner and quicker? It appears that you are starting the turn with the ski at a high edge angle. Thanks!!
Its not a hop, but a pop (ie the flexed ski pops like a spring when unweighted). A poped ski does indeed get you on to the other edge quickly. A carved turn never requires any "help" from steering.
Which pista color (i am EU based) are you practicing on? I started skiing for the first times in 2023, and tried to get some speed on greens and blues, to get more inclination doing this exercise with no results.
Some days ago I tried to push my comfort zone using a steeper red pista for a few times, and suddenly my carv score went up from 70-90 to 105-120 and I really felt that inclination more.
I am curious to know which pista were you running, and I can't wait to try this excercise in a nice steeper red.
This pista is in Canada so I don't really know the conversion to EU but I can tell you that its more of a blue in Canada's terms
This is a solid blue run so would be like a decent pitch red run. Steeper is better for this drill
Where ard you located? Europe?
There were great already.
Uau. What a great way af teaching Never new this Master before but the lesson is very pofessional. Compliments
I understand bending the inside leg, but do you also consciously slide it a forward during the turn?
Hi. When I do this (feel that I'm doing this) I have a strong feeling on being too much on the inside leg and too far back. Am I wrong?
You’re a BPS member! Ask me this in the comments section of this video on the bps app or website and I’ll do my best to help you out 👍
@@Bigpictureskiing couldn't find the video there this morning 😂😂😂
Can you carve like this with all mountain skis? How steep is the slope in this video? The speed is more important than the steep to be available to go very deep in the turns, right?
The steep helps a lot as it actually means it’s closer to get your hand to the snow in the second half of the turn
@@Bigpictureskiing Yes thats What I thought. Thank you
@@Bigpictureskiing This takes training though! It feels like I dont lean enough in the turns but rather try to bend my knees to touch the snow, like an old man trying to pick up his glasses.
@@Bigpictureskiing Feels like I ll loose the grip if i lean more. How should I think?
WOW!
cool thank you
First time i tried this , I felt like the pressure went to the inside ski, even with the long and short leg. Have to try again tomorrow.
Try on a steeper slope. You need a ton of centrifugal force to lean on to make this work.
Where is this place? I want to ski here and learn rather than in Australia.
Hey Tom, What are you doing with your body that allows you to move inside like that. What and how are to achieve it? Your skiers look to be moving downwards and back vs. moving inside Is that what you want us to do ?
I explain all that I think and do on my bigpictureskiing website and app.
It helps you by forcing u to tuck the inside (uphill) ski more under the body ( dorsiflexing the ankle). This also helps with pushing the inside ski shin against the boot. ( Which is the feeling when debs a describes driving the inside knee. )....and therefore it's easier for the inside ski to match the outside ski angle wise when going to more extreme angles.
i just get scared there's going to be an icy patch i don't notice (im on the east coast)
when I try to edge that aggressively, the skis just fly out from underneath me... Happened a few times which knocked my confidence. Should I get a more aggressive sharpening? I dunno what the current degrees are but I guess 88 could do the trick? Also, my radius is 15,4 m... I'm 196 cm and the skis are 170, I feel like they are too short (Head supershape) and the radius is too large. I need something a bit longer and smaller radius. Have been skiing for 24 years.
I tried my dad's skis, which are 170 cm but have a radius of 13 m instead of 15 and carving became so much easier. Also, those skis were much heavier than mine, which felt better for carving, but worse for the hop and turn style.
Sounds like a tuneup of the ski edges would help you out. Give you confidence that they won’t slip out.
The radius is actually not too bad but will require more speed to tip them over compared to the 13m skis.
@@Bigpictureskiing cheers!
i download it to keep it on my smartphone
Ryan Knapton
Do you recommend a narrow ski for this carving pratice ? Currently I'm using salmon fx76 . Thank you
Yes I do!
@@Bigpictureskiing thank you ! Any recommendations for narrow ski for 160cm skier
@@ScottyInVancouverthe Fischer curv is a seriously fun carving ski
@@Bigpictureskiing ok thank you ! I did notice alot lv4 during exam using those
Not a big fan of the tail lift/pop in the initiation at all.
great video student are in backseat too much , load that shovel toe heel roll inside foot knee flex and rolled out to switch rotate
And jow do I practice the butt touch?
Stay tuned. Got plans for a video on this coming next winter
@@Bigpictureskiing hahha if you need a guinea pig I'm always ready hahaha
My classmate Eric ))
Dragging the hand will cause over inclination among the intermediate skier, been there done that and do not encourage the hand drag among intermediates. Just the opposite drop the outside hand to encourage upper body separation which will create some hip angulation and edge angle. Hand drag for top end skiers yes--- no for intermediates.
Lucky the title says “advanced carving drill” not “intermediate carving drill”
I respectfully disagree. Either advanced or intermediate skiers, unfortunately, by dragging your hand you will unnecessarily be tilting your axial plane (instead of keeping it parallel and levelled to the ground), and therefore by physics you will be relinquishing grip capacity (less edging). Maximum edging should be achieved by keeping that upper/lower body separation, and the reason why most slalom racers will keep that axial plane as levelled as possible with their torso upright.
Besides… we should steer with our feet (and controlling our toes), and not with our hands or arms.
@@santii.4619 About WC slalom skiers, they touch the ground with their internal knuckles at every run....
@@MrTheRabber although it may happen (certainly not every run) it is not done intentionally. Just like in MotoGP, where the rider is able to tilt his motorcycle down at maximum edge without touching the ground and remain balanced (yet you might see sparks out of the knee pads at times due to contact with the asphalt) the same happens with an SL or GS turn at speed. What keeps you "up and balanced" is the combination of your maximum force exerted on your outside ski (and the edge of ski) thanks to friction, and the rotational force (centripetal force) as a consequence of the turn at speed.
I would have to get a body double to get that close to the snow, or simply fall, but I'm an old, injured ex racer (well before shaped skis)
левая нога промахивается!- асимметрия развития в поясничном отделе позвоночника!
you domping upper body hip uphill using advansed insaide ski as crotch to stop falling uphill draging outsaide ski you dont counter upper body to pressure outsaide ski you flex lower legs forwart draging pelvis behainde
Ok! So this will create horrible habits! You kidding me!
just turn the stupid skis its not rocket appliances
thank you for sharing this drill, the know how for "how to enjoy" the steep slopes ⛷⛷
Hand drags WORK! Just tested in Steamboat and Copper with my girl doing J-turns without even bring the fist all the way down. This new found feeling of speed control is exhilarating! Thank you TOM!!!!
Looking forward to trying this out. I have been struggling with carving on slightly steeper pitches.
Great videos and explanations. You remind me of an old friend who always told me to start carving: "you have to imagine that you are tying your shoe" crush by dragging your hand on the ground. you are a top skier, nothing else.❤
Excellent tutorial video Tom! Your descriptions about what to feel while doing the physical motion helps tremendously. One thought I'm going to try since watching this video is to think of my uphill ski and outreaching hand as if they are connected on a string. As the uphill hand reaches for the snow my uphill ski knee follows and helps with the carving forces to better balance myself on the slope.? I have not tried this on the slope yet, but in my head it seems to make sense. Again, thank you for the carving tutorials. I'm learning a lot!
Good connection
exactly the tutorial I was looking for ! I can carve in somehow but my inclination it's not at all there
I watched this vid and went through the progression. BAM! My carving took a quantum leap. I can hardly say I was carving before, I was but clearly not exploiting the potential of the turn or my skies. Then I took a dive into Tom’s other videos and thought maybe I should subscribe. $50 a month I thought this might be a bit spendy but, $1000 for an all day private is the alternative. I would give it a try. Happy to say the I was blown away by the material, and what is offered in live programs. I am a believer and wouldrecommend the same to anyone who is serious about their skiing.
Thanks Ted for taking the time to comment about your experience. So happy that you’ve found the big picture skiing site has exceeded your expectations.
Really enjoyed this and can't wait to try it when our snow arrives. Thanks, Tom.
Very nice drill. But I would recommend dragging the outside ski pole basket on the ground while flexing your core more so on that outside ski pole drag side in conjunction with the same drill shown here.
If it sounds weird sorry just my 2 cents!
I like this and it is also something I think about too. I also like to focus on standing up on/extending the uphill leg before and into the transition.