Thank you for having another video about how you got it all wrong. You truly did! I am 41 years old. My entire life I tried to comfort to what society told me I had to be but somehow it didn’t make me happy. About 2 years ago I found myself having a deep loving relationship with 2 men and they both know about each other. They have met each other I have dates sometimes with both of them together and I feel like, I found my tribe. Sorry for my bad English as it is my second language. My job requires me to interact with people in a very intimate way and people open up to me. I have such more deep understanding about human nature and sexuality. It’s so not black and white. It’s so beautiful in so many ways. Anyways! Thank you dear
Wow this is great! I'm 22 and a senior in college. I have been dating a girl for 2 1/2 years now and plan to marry her one day. People around me will joke about having a "side chick" and when I tell them I don't do that they then treat me like I'm some rare species of a human. It's nice to know I'm not alone on the monogamy boat because that's how I was raised and I agree that being in one relationship takes so much of my time already that I couldn't possible handle two or more. thanks for the video.
If your friends are teasing you about not cheating on your girlfriend I would find new friends. Not betraying your partner is like the bare minimum for trust in a relationship. You don’t deserve a trophy for not giving her STDs and breaking her heart.
Wow, that is weird to hear comments like that from your friends. What's wrong with these people that they've normalized having "people on the side" and think yoire weird if you don't..? People have gotten weird and screwed up, so twisted, especially the younger generation making this trendy.
Please don't take any of this as a personal attack, I genuinely like you (as much as I know about you as someone who's never met you), but hopefully you will read all this with an open mind. 1. There is a distinction between polyamory and open relationships. I bristle when people call polyamory "open relationships" because it implies a lack of structure, communication, and faithfulness (yes, you can be a faithful polyamorist!) 2. Relationships =/= Sex =/= Reproduction. You do not need to procreate in order to have meaningful (and even sexual) relationships. We are more than just eggs and sperm. And yes, gay, bisexual, pansexual, asexual, and transgender people all exist. Sex and gender are more than "simple" biology (as if biology were ever simple anyway!). 3. On loving, giving, and making time and energy for more than 1 partner: you do already know how to do it because you have more than one child. You didn't stop loving your first child when you had your second, did you? Would you be able to make room for a third in your heart? Don't you have more than 1 friend at a time? 4. You can't fix an existing relationship by turning your back and finding another partner, that's what turns people into serial monogamists, but all of the polyamorists I've ever known (and there have been quite a few) don't go hunting for a new partner when their current relationships are on the rocks. That's when you close yourself to new relationships and work on strengthening the ones you have. Yes, polyamory is complicated. Relationships are complicated, otherwise the divorce rate wouldn't be so high. 5. Quite frankly, the idea that there is one and only one person out there for you is against biology. There are 10 billion miles of DNA in the human body. Every human being is distinct and unique, even identical twins. What are the odds that you will ever in your life encounter the one person whose combined DNA and life experiences make them a perfect complement to yourself? Why are we so hell bent on trying to force one person into a situation where they are solely responsible for all of our sexual and emotional needs? 6. Polyamory doesn't invalidate monogamy any more than homosexuality invalidates heterosexuality. The two can in fact coexist in the world, just as much as its possible for people to live happy fulfilled lives without a sexual/romantic relationship at all if that's how they're wired. Don't let your personal experience make you think that you have the only valid life experience in the world. 7. As far as being old-fashioned, don't let the post-victorian era fool you into thinking that alternative relationship styles, sexualities, and sexual freedom didn't exist in the past. They have existed throughout history, but modern history is mostly written by old, straight, white guys who aren't really that interested in things that don't directly benefit them, and have frequently been quite hostile to ideas and people they felt threatened by, as I'm sure you well know.
Alex Reith Your last point kept flashing through my head as I listened to her refer to herself as old fashioned. There are plenty of examples of non-monogamy in Western culture that predate the current increase in visibility and interest in it, like poets and artists of the 19th century that often practiced something akin to polyamory. Or, heck, look at the free love movement of the 1960's. So, ya. This is not a new thing.
Damn, your third point hit me with logic like a rock. It's so true. On point two. I agree that we are more than eggs and sperm, but being an open-minded person and scientist, when philosophing on polyamory and open relationships in the modern context, my thoughts often go back to biology. Because biology dictates many of our behaviours. I would call it instinct. And different people have different instincts, meaning exactly that there is more in nature than pure heterosexuality and procreational sex. So I understand why Mayim uses biology as an argument and her point of view is clearly based on her own instinct. And that's completely okay. Being heterosexual (if she is? I'm not sure) and monogamous is just as natural as being polyamouros and bisexual, for example.
Being straight and monogamous is totally ok. What's not ok is using pseudo-science to post-facto justify your prejudice and try to coerce and shame an already stigmatized and misunderstood minority. The science behind what she's saying doesn't exist (if it ever will). Also, it's not like evolution stopped, it continues on, our species continues to evolve, so there's no reason to revert to paleolithic sexual practices--which would be impossible anyway, since there's just not enough data to support any of her claims. Future evolutions of human biology will favor different traits than our ancestors had, and there's no good reason to go backward. When I wrote my first comment, I was feeling charitable and open minded, but the more I think about it the more I doubt that what she's trying to do is start a conversation or that she'll even read most of these comments, or respond to any of them, and the more I feel like this was just a hot-button, sensationalizing, clickbait video to boost her views and subscribers. And while there's nothing wrong with creative attempts at boosting views, it's really shitty to be in the target group of a misinformation campaign because someone who already gets plenty of press wants to get more clicks.
Alex Reith well I am not Polly, and absolutely do not agree with Mayim. I may not have first hand experience but I certainly can defend that people should do what works best for them and using biology to go against this is just... I don't even know how to qualify it.
I especially love your third point. Loving one person doesn't mean you're taking away love from another. Most people love more than one person at a time. Family, friends, spouse, etc.
Hi Mayim! I rarely comment on videos, but I think my testimony could be interesting, as I am a polyamourous person. Open relationships are not about fixing a failed relationship by seeing other people, it's not just about sex, and it's not a promiscuous situation where everybody's sleeping around. (Well it can be, but monogamous relationships can be shitty too, full of lies and miscommunication and cheating, sleeping around, etc.) I've never met people as consent-focused, safe in their communication and their sex habits as in the polyamourous community of Paris (I'm French. No that's not a cliché ^^ polyamourous people are rare even in France). A good polyamourous relationship includes respect, care and love of all parties, complete honesty, constant self-work, as well growing together (just with more than one person), helping and supporting each other. Polyamourous relationships can create beautiful families, beautiful communities. Being polyamourous is not about being greedy or wanting always more sex and distraction, or about running away from responsibilities and commitment. It is about accepting that your partner doesn't belong to you, and that possessivity is only a construct based on self-doubt, low self-esteem, and the overgrown egos that are so valorised in our society. You don't lose anything when your partner loves or makes love to another person. You are enriched by their enriched happiness, you often gain a friend in their new partner, and the diversity of relationships can only make everyone stronger. The social construct that we let go of is not so much the one that men and women are the same (that's a different story). It's the one that says that owning and controlling your partner is essential to maintaining your honor. I think that's a useless and counterproductive way of seeing things. We should focus on giving, growing, creating together, not refraining and shaming people for their desires/curiosities/attractions/loves. Of course, you can let go of this construct and still choose to be with one person! But once you've accepted that the relationship is free and flowing, evolving as its members evolve, you'll have room for much more change, conversations, and renegociation of its terms as time goes by. As for the argument about limited time, focus, and energy. Well, you make time. It's like making time for one lover when you thought taking care of yourself was already a lot! And like making time for kids when you thought taking care of one lover was already a lot. And for the argument about biology, I just think it's simply a bad argument. But that's been said in other comments. This argument is dangerous, and can be used against polyamourous people as well as gays, trans people, but also women scientists (women shouldn't be scientists, they were made to conceive and care for their kids), small people, disabled people, etc. If we gave in to our biology we would do a lot of horrible things, and forbid a lot of beautiful ones. Biology didn't tell us to make buildings and send stuff to space. We are able to question and bend the laws of our biology and that's what makes us human. Please, next time document yourself before making broad statements. I find it odd you talk about open relationships as if you had answers to provide about it, even though you haven't experienced it, and don't seem to have talked with someone who has. Next time, come to the subject with a more open mind, maybe invite someone to talk with you, ask them questions, etc.
I saw your follow-up video before this one. Seeing parts where some people may have a problem we tend to forget you are stating your point of view. You are only telling how you feel about it and not how others should. Reading a lot of the comments you started a discussion that expanded my knowledge and view of the subject; so thank you.
Leonard Smith Yes but Mayim is stating her personal view in a public forum, so some responsibility accrues to be fair and proportionate and accurate in presenting that view, no? I think she did herself proud in acknowledging some of the problems with the presentation of her preference, though.
@@s1npl1c1ty And she's sharing her disagreement while FIRST claiming that she is a "scientist" and then giving an overly simplified (populist and conservative) breakdown of male vs female reproductive processes. People will mistakenly think that her view is 'objective' and not what it actually is: personal, biased, outdated, and regressive.
I mean, when it comes to the idea of being exhausted by multiple relationships and connections, I'd say....we are able to maintain relationships of all levels of intimacy with various people. It's why we have romantic relationships with partners, relationships with kids and family, relationships with friends. There's a sliding scale of what and how you share in all of those scenarios.
I don't agree with open relationships for myself but its important for me and others to know about this. I don't want my daughter/son tomorrow to feel uncomfortable talking to me about this merely because I'm a possessive partner. May each soul, whatever they identify as, find happiness. Thank you for teaching me something new, Mayim!
JoElen247 In the culture that I come from (India), Muslims have multiple wives and Hindus are culturally monogamous. As an agnostic, the younger ones in my family have justified multiple sexual partners on the ground that our Muslim friends have multiple wives so why can't we. The problem is that in my immediate society sexual partners or lack thereof are justified or dismissed based on religion (and how its been interpreted by a small circle of people) and no one wants to see what science suggests. So for me to break out of a religion based debate into a coherent scientific one is new. I'm not saying Mayim has given me an answer, but she's pointed in a direction which is worthy of exploration because it challenges the biological sexual equality of men and women, while admitting to the social relevance of multiple partners to thwart patriarchy.
Priyanka Murali I'm a Muslim, and I can defo say that whilst religiously it is ok to have multiple wives, there are of course certain conditions in which it is ok. For example, if the first wife agrees to it for whatever reason. This is however practices very rarely from what I have seen and is not widely accepted. I personally would never agree to allowing my husband to bringing in another person into the relationship because I would not be able to cope with knowing that he is physically having sexual intramuscular with someone else. Furthermore I do want children and I would not be comfortable in letting my children call someone else mum or enjoy explaining why their father is sleeping with some one else. This is just how I feel, of course everyone is entitled to however they feel, but this is just how I feel about this situation.
Mayim Bialik I'm with you on the central premise that women shouldn't have to feel like they need to be sexual in the same way that men are, because we are different, but... I feel like you unnecessarily judged people in open relationships and polyamorous relationships that do work. There are more scenarios to consider than just the stereotypical 'sleeping around cuz I can' situation. Not all people who are in open or polyamorous relationships do it for the same reasons or in the same way. Not all polyamorous people even have sex to begin with. If you don't like people having unprotected sex with lots of people, then advocate for protected sex, don't tell them they shouldn't have sex with, or date, lots of people. If you don't like it that women/girls are being manipulated into casual sex, then tell them to only have sex they really want. Tell them that manipulative bastards are not worth it, even if everyone else thinks they're hot. Tell them to pay attention to their own emotions, and that if they feel bad about having casual sex, then they shouldn't do it. Warn them about red flags for potentially abusive partners. But don't just categorically reject any relationship that involves more than two people. What about people who are in exclusive polyamorous relationships, the kind that includes 3 or 4 people who all love each other, and who don't sleep around or date around with people outside of that relationship? What about people for whom polyamory is part of their sexual identity, who can't feel comfortable in monogamous relationships? A lot of them will tell you that they feel trapped in monogamous relationships, it feels wrong. Others will tell you they can't handle the pressure of being the sole responsible person for another person's well-being. They find thát too much to handle. They'd rather cooperate with multiple people so they wouldn't bear the full responsibility of "managing someone's needs and desires, paying them attention, holding them when they're sad and raising their kids" all by themselves. They'd rather have their kid grow up with 3 or 4 parents to look after them. To me that actually sounds more manageable than the standard two-parent setup. And what about asexual polyamorous people who can't find an asexual partner? Quite a number of them practice polyamory in order to get the intimacy of being in a romantic relationship, without having to compromise their bodily integrity. Not all people experience their sexualities in the same way. Just because the majority of the population functions better in monogamous relationships, doesn't mean that's the case for everyone. Just because you don't understand what it feels like to be a polyamorous person, doesn't mean it's wrong, or incomprehensible, or too difficult to manage. Please look at the reality of polyamory before declaring it infeasible. Maybe I misinterpreted, but it feels very condescending when you tell women to 'lean in to their biology'. Women don't need people to tell them that being promiscuous isn't part of their nature and so they shouldn't do it. They don't need you to tell them what it is they actually want. You can't read their minds. And please don't use evolution to police people's sexualities. Don't you see that that same argument can be used to tell gay people they're living their lives wrong because they're not perpetuating the species? And asexual people? Even worse. Didn't evolve right. Waste of space. As an asexual who is considering polyamory as a way out of having to compromise my body in order to not die sad and alone, your words in this video sound condescending, moralizing, prejudiced and uninformed. I'm sorry. I respect you a lot, but this wasn't your best video.
Laurann I'm gonna research this again and make sure I'm not speaking out of line, but I think she had two objectives here. 1)to create an open dialogue on the subject of relationships (I know it was focused on open relationships, but she deferred to "traditional" relationships as well) 2) She expressed her thoughts and concerns on the matter. She didn't say she was right, she left it mostly as "I don't understand why its...." She also mentions she's old, so I dunno. Perhaps if I were in a relationship with more than one person my perspective may change. As a person part of a monotonous relationship, You do You! (For what it's worth, I can't add anything to the discussion so I'm gonna keep my opinion to myself, I just wanted to throw it out there that maybe it was a matter of perspective, and she put her thoughts out there to bring forth discussion.) Kick some ass!
I didn’t realize the concept of a relationship had become so trivialized. Can’t we all agree to simply strive for a good, healthy, and happy relationship? I think the message here was very well said and also a fascinating conversation anyhow (And also hilarious simultaneously). Excellent food for thought. I prefer the old-fashioned type of relationship myself and I’m happy about that. I’m liberated because I’m in a happy relationship with someone I genuinely care about and want to protect and nurture with love, kindness, and good times.😊😇
As a child of someone who has parents married and faithful for 60 years, I applaud this. I only wish I could have achieved something on the order of their relationship.
As a primatologist I have to say you get quite a few things wrong about our "biology". First, the majority of primate species are NOT monogamous; only a tiny handful of primate species are. Second, primate females in many species are sexually promiscuous - most often we think as a way to avoid infanticide by confusing paternity. Third, none of this holds for humans anymore - we don't generally need to confuse the men around us as to whether a kid is theirs or not so they don't kill it. Neither do the men in our society (at least for the most part) want a lot of children by random women. Lastly, for the most part we expect both sexes to play an active role in raising the children they produce - so for us monogamy might actually make the most sense (obligatory bi-parental care is usually what you find in species that are monogamous). It's a naturalistic fallacy to urge people to "lean into their biology" whatever that even means. Relationships should be about finding someone compatible enough and important enough to you that you can figure out a way to be together that makes both of you happy.
I have friends who are polyamorous. I am not. I have friends who are gay. I am not. I have friends who are straight. I am not. I have friends who are bi. I am not. I have friends who drink alcohol. I do not. I have friends who enjoy country music. I do not. I see people all around me who have different values, qualities, types of understanding than I have. I don't truly understand them, but I understand them distantly, like one might understand the Na'vi from Avatar from watching the movie, but not really understand them because they're fundamentally different. I can't judge people by my own standards, because I'm not "normal", but I try to judge them (more or less) by their own standards.
as a former biologist and now biology teacher: the biology does not actually affect sexual behaviour in the way you said. Benefits do. Since it is beneficial for bonobo-chimps to have sex with many conspecifics they do so. They get rewarded for having sex not only by "pleasure" but also by the reactions of their group. It was beneficial for us to be a monogamist in many cultures. In the western world contraceptives kind of washed away the benefits we get from being monogamous. so pleasure is the biggest benefit left affecting sexual behaviour. So our behaviour will slowly change to bonobo like relationships.
Yeah, what she is saying is. It based on science, but rather a popular theory the does not allow for variations such as homosexuality, changes in the modern world, and the idea that women would be at a genetic advantage to not lock herself into only investing in children made with one man and all the genetic issues his bloodline would contain, and be beneficial to for women to not put all her eggs in one basket?
Agree 💯 I believe people who are into open relationships are people who haven't find that one person who rocks their world and who they inevitably fall in love with. I mean, when that happens you don't ever think about anybody else but your love. And if you ever do think about anybody else, if you get stronger feelings for that new person it means your initial love wasn't that strong. Or if it isn't comparable to your initial love it means you are with the right one and that's why this beautiful and commited relationship between two people exists
I'm a bit older than you, have been in a monogamous marriage for 36 years, and have not been with another women since I started dating my wife. Yet I find this vid be something that I would expect to hear from my grandmother. As someone else mentioned, you could re-do the video with "being in a lesbian relationship" with the same script. You're (apparently) not a lesbian, and you're not ployamorous either. So it's not surprising that you don't "get it." But there are plenty of sources out there that would give you some insight into these types of relationships, even it they're not for you. Or you could read Robert Heinlein's _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_. Or just read the 506 comments already made.
Robert Keefer you have a good point...but the main point I see void in every person's argument even witjing the video is the fact that every person is biologically different down to their individual genes...I.e. This is her biological mind presenting itself while yours is to be monogamous or someone else is to be gay or lesbian
Geano Cide Literally no one is saying that Mayim should engage in polyamory if she doesn't want to. We're merely pointing out that some people do want to practice it and that her comments come across as shaming and judgmental for the way they are living their lives.
buttercreamsunshine please reread my comment...I am not bashing anyone or saying anyone is wrong...I am simply staing that every person is biologically different which leads to their own formulated opinions which are based on their thinking process, morals, values, religious influences etc..I just pointed out that no one has mentioned this...the basic human difference is the individual biology (as she noted) of every person which makes up their individual preferences and identity
ugggghhhh accidentally clicked a link and lost the long comment I was typing out. Hope I can remember it all. TLDR: 1 you mostly talked about polyamory not open relationships 2 false claims were made in the video like primates being typically monogamous. 3 leaning into your biology is not always the best thing. I like that this was presented as more of an opinion piece than an advice video because there are quite a few errors I would like to address. I'd suggest renaming the video to "My thoughts on Polyamory" because that is what you described at the start and 4:48. There are multiple types of open relationship/consensual non-mongamy. There are FWB(friends with beenfits) type situations, fuck buddy situations, etc etc etc. You only talked about 1 type really. I'd also suggest doing a bit more research before making claims on what you know. 4:18 While this may be your personal experience, much of the published research seems to agree that sex positive communities(including CNM communities) are much more likely to be aware of their sexual health(frequent tests) and to use protection than others. 0:52 As far as I am aware primates, just like the majority of other species, are NOT typically monogamous(especially sexually) even those species that do pair bond. In fact 2 of the closest relatives to the humans, the chimps and the bonobos are anything but monogamous. I'm not sure if this was your intention but 5:12 - 6:04 seems to come across as you saying that open relationships only occur when there is trouble in the relationship. While this is sometimes (often? not sure on statistics here) the case, there are plenty of people who prefer to live their life this way and some who claim to be(are?) oriented this way. Now with all that out of the way. I can actually comment on the video. You say lean into your biology but people already regularly takes steps to fight the biology that are beneficial like birth control pills that you mentioned among other things. Anyhow I do appreciate your thoughts on it but maybe try to be a bit more factual next time. I still feel I forgot something that i said the first time. Oh well.
Yep. Agree with it all, TheAnomaly. And women are KNOWN start affairs, to look for the "alpha male." We can be just as HORNY as men...as a group, I mean.
The single thing you have to ask yourself about open relationship is this: Is my wife (or husband) worth all my attention/love, or are they not. Because if you feel the need to have a relationship outside a marriage, then the only thing you are saying is your current partner isn't good enough. And that's the most hurtful thing I can ever imagine. How crushed would your partner be to hear you say "well, I like you, but you don't fulfil me, so I'm going to have to bring in 1, 2 3 other people to meet all my needs'. Look, if you don't want to be tied down to 1 person, or if you haven't found that special someONE, then just don't get married. MB is right, it's just a social construct. There is no harm in not falling into it. There is harm in falsely using it though. Look at those phonies on sister wives. The lack of self worth in those women is heartbreaking. Not a single one of them has the self worth to understand they deserve a husband that loves only them. You get married to Mrs. Jones. Not Mrs. Tuesday, Thursday and every other weekend. And the pig-of-a-husband on those shows. They are obviously just perverts who are in it for the sex. They have to be. Look at it another way, look at that one family that has 19 kids. How special is it really when you celebrate one of those kids birthdays? The reality is, it's not special at all. They are just a number in the system at that point. Same with multiple partners. The more partners you have, the more watered down the relationship becomes. Having just two partners means you can only give 50% of yourself to each partner. That's just physics. You will never be able to tell a woman "your are the most beautiful person I have ever met', 'you are the love of my life', etc. Because really, you only mean that on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and every other weekend for her. The other women is the most beautiful women to you on the other days of the week. Sad. MB, I saw your apology video first, came back to watch this one to see why you needed to apologize. You didn't need to make the second video.
ME TOO!!! But I suspect she may be talking about indigenous persons. Some indigenous cultures do have multiple wives, AFAIK, but they are in the minority. No idea where Mayim would have got the idea from, though. And - if it is true - where are all my spare men?!?!?
Me too! I don’t think it is legal. But when I worked at Centrelink we had rules around payments for polygamy. It mostly happens with immigrants but I think certain alternative lifestyles would be included.
Maintaining a positive and healthy relationship with myself (mentally) and my fiancé (soon to be husband) + dealing with my family and his… I personally can’t imagine adding someone else into this much on such an intimate level. I’ve seen a video of 4 people in a polyamorous relationship and even if they “don’t know or care who the father is” I’m sure in some ways you can tell by looking at the kids and I couldn’t help but wonder if that causes any resentment, favoritism and/or or other issues. Since I’m from South Africa I know of many men with multiple wives and I often hear about jealousy issues and it just seems exhausting to me… but to be fair, in these cultures it’s very patriarchal in the sense where the hierarchy is very strict… the man at the top, the first wife below and so on… but not everyone is always happy with that, especially when a second or third wife gives birth to a son before they first. Infertility also causes a lot of issues. A friend of mine told me how when her grandfather died (who had multiple wives) her father and his siblings (along with their mother, the second wife) were thrown out and left with almost nothing… All relationships take work so I understand that one with more people so intimately involved will naturally have difficulties (like any other relationship)… it just seems like too much for me 😮💨
"primates are monogamous" No they're not. Most aren't anything like monogamous (with something like polygamy being the most common.) But a few species do what's called "pair bonding." They form monogamous style relationships, but without the strict monogamy that we add. That is, even species that practice pair bonding still have sex outside those pairs.
Literally love your channel. I just feel like you are explaining my thoughts about the topic (opened relationships, sexualization of women in name of empowerment...)....which is why my friends and lots of people around often think I am old fahioned and prude (even though I'm 27). I am very happy someone like you has a similar outlook on this topics as I do :D
My take on open relationships are like them saying "You will do for now", but I want to see other people. Then after they have played the feild they will find someone better than the other person, and leave them. I am in a closed, monogamous relationship, and we just celebrated our 11 year anniversary. My brother however is in a open relationship, and he has gone through a lot of partners because he stays with one until he finds another to be with.
I am in an Open relationship. I See it Like that: If i am really "the one" For my Partner. Than He wont find someone better. If i Need him to stay away From Other "better" Woman, than why am i together With him at all?
When you say “lean into our biology” but you’re not advocating for either monogamous or open relationships, what exactly are you proposing? Is it that men should be allowed multiple partners and women stick to one because of our biology? Or that we should be free to choose whatever based on what both people feel best provides for all people involved in the relationship?
can't we just have both and appreciate its values and advantages? Like everything else, experiences have shown us that everybody is different and special and therefore should treated this way. (i am not saying someone should be treated better than an another individual) Just let be tolerant and let other people live their lives.
Yeah. Some context around her decision to tell her viewers that she doesn't get open relationships may have gone a loooong way to mitigating the issues with the content.
It's very simple : to some people it DOES work. That is no wrong or right. Better or worse. Just people doing their choices. And let's not forget : for a lot of women and men that prefer monogamy out there , cheating it's "ok" too 😉 And please, don't put women once again in a biological limit. Trust me, for some women monogamy it's (or marriage, sex only with love...etc) it's not an interesting thing. And it's not exhausting nether...😊
Thank you for this, Mayim. Somebody I know tried this and got into a lot of trouble. Sex for the sake of sex also comes with its own repercussions. You may get away with it some of the time, but it doesn't mean your luck will last forever. I have studied psychology, the way men and women behave sexually and the emotional implications. I had warned this person about what would happen, but they did not believe me. It wound up with two people going through serious depression and one person going completely nuts trying to teach the other two a lesson. Just watching it play out was horrible.
Women only produce one or two eggs per month. However, we have as much sex drive as men. Women should not be judged because of their amount of sexual partners just like men are not judged in that field either. An open relationship can be as satisfying as a monogamous one. It's just about doing what you really want and having a good communication with your partner. People have always been unfaithful and open relationships make that not be a big deal and help people focus on what really matters about a relationship. Condoms should always be worn, btw.
Why women should not be judged by the amount of partners? Let me judge as I please. Men are not judged because women don't judge them, they want the popular men. Women pretty much create all the social norms because they are the more wanted sex. That pretty much explains why men work hard to get power and money, because it benefits them in the eyes of women (and thus in the eyes of other men as well) and why women don't have to get money and power. "It's just about doing what you really want", that doesn't mean it's good for you or for others. At least when you are young, understanding consequences is pretty hard. And overall consequences on society are unbelievable hard to know. Open relationships wont solve unfaithfulness. And people have always been faithful too. To really know what open relationships does, we would have to do 50 year follow up research. The results would be pretty horrible.
The main reason women were expected to remain 'virtuous'..and faithful back in history was to mainly make sure any children she may have with her husband,were his children...simple as.
for me personally sleeping with someone else than my partner is not appealing at all. I have to feel some level of connection and commitment, I don't just see someone in a bar and want to go at it. but other people have other attractions and that's okay. I don't know why you felt the need to make this video and pretend that their attractions are anything to do with swapping social constructions. I never woke up and decided to be a straight monogamous person...... I just am. other people just are what they are too. There's nothing to get and I don't feel any need to have a talk to them about sexuality transmitted diseases.... open relationship people are adults who have heard of stds. seems like you decided what isn't you is hard to understand and then tried to complicate your understanding of it by thinking about gender and evolution.... did you think of gender and evolution to be who you are?!?????
I use caution in your argument. Yes, we don't choose to be monogamous or not, but these choices are guided by our social constructs. What relationships did you seeing growing up (probably mainly monogamous). Yes there isn't a conscious choice, but we are influenced by what we see.
Ameliorated I also don't have a desire to sleep with someone without a level of connection and commitment. The only difference between you and me is that I do desire to have connection and commitment without limiting it to one person at a time. :) To be clear this isn't an attack on your monogamy preference, just pointing out that your lead-in justifies wanting to have casual sex, but doesn't acknowledge that for many people open relationships are not about casual sex. This is my primary issue with Mayim's video, that it makes that assumption -- open relationships are a mechanism for permitting casual sex. This is something that causes a lot of crappy stuff for poly people, who are often expected to be closeted about having multiple relationships because it's "bedroom talk," when open discussion of monogamous relationships is assumed to be about, y'know, your life and the important relationships in it, and is therefore fit for public discussion. If we can do away with the assumption that poly is a "bedroom thing," we can hope to change the fact that our relationships are treated as promiscuous and frivolous, but mono people's relationships are treated with respect.
''but these choices are guided by our social constructs. What relationships did you seeing growing up (probably mainly monogamous). Yes there isn't a conscious choice, but we are influenced by what we see.'' ..including youtube videos and statements like ''sex with other person than your partner is fine'' repeated countless times and presented as a cool thing cool liberated people do or ''sex positivity'' culture. Although you can be monogamous and sex positive at the same time cause you're positive about sex. Not that I'm trying to impose my views on you. It's just that you have to be honest till the end. Both of these preferences can easily be guided by society to various degrees in each case. Social construction thing is what makes us different from other animals as I believe. It's not bad in itself and it will always exist, no matter what. It can change but the social construction phenomena won't go anywere. It's just one social construct replacing another. In case with sleeping with one person per relationship vs more than one it's way too relative and individual for you to know what's better for certain people. It's just should be discussed with your partner from the beginning and you should be totally honest with them about that. If you criticise gender roles or archaic things about monogamous relationships then that's another thing. Those things are clearly harmful and they have hierarchial and oppressive nature.
+Vegendetta But open relationships are a mechanism for permitting casual sex. Being in an open relationship means you're not exclusive with your parter. Polyamory isn't the same thing though.
Oh man, I think everyone else has made good points. Way to paint people who choose polyamorous relationships as women bring victimized by horny men.. I feel sorry for all the strong independent women out there she just marginalized.
It took myself and my gf awhile to get there, but at the end of the day, it's about letting go of your jealousy, which is detrimental to both your mental and physical health. Now, we don't actively seek out other partners, but it's more about IF we find someone with whom we decide we need to have in that way, we are allowed to do so, safely. In my mind, if she needs something that I'm unable to give her, why wouldn't I allow her that? In the entirety of our 10 year relationship, she has been with one other man and we were both with another woman.
i agree and i think you are completely right. i've been in a poliamory relationship and it was horible. i got very depressed and realized i'm monogamous. open relationships are not for me.
@@dancechica yes but it's a juggling game which will eventually deplete one's emotional energy. You will not feel a real connection with someone when they have another relationship and especially when you know about it. How much do they love you? They'll be there when you need them or they prioritize the other relationship ? How does this work? I may be called old-fashioned but I agree with Mayim. Sometimes is too much with only one partner and you also have to work and entertain friendships, raise children, etc.
@@johnmarriano This is so incredibly true. I was talked into being in a poly relationship with a woman who is a huge advocate and also went to Canadian courts to fight for her right to be poly. When I entered the relationship it was great to begin with. But her interest in me and energy shifted to other guys and couples she was seeing. Soon it became 'discussions' when I was feeling left out or abandoned. Lots of talk about how my views were wrong and my feelings were discounted. I got so tired of hearing how poly is ''natural" and love is for everyone. After several months I finally confronted her as her dating pool was expanding and I hadn't even met most of her people. Despite her Psych degrees and constantly telling others how we had the ideal life, I finally told her I'm done. She had little time for me. She was never wrong and I was always wrong in my feelings and views. Basically I got replaced in two weeks by another 'Primary' who was excited to diddle her. No one in that poly group ever checked in on me or asked how I was. There wasn't love (despite that being what she said was the focus) but just a lot of people excusing their need for sex. Maybe poly relationships can be good, but it showed me how they can irreparably damage someone when handled poorly.
I appreciate that you are respectful with your disagreement with open relationships. I can certainly agree that being in an open relationship is exhausting, takes up a lot of your time, and also exposes to greater risk of, well, drama for lack of a better term. So I thought I would share my story. I am actually in an open marriage, and I've been with my husband for about 6 years now. He is my rock, my light, my partner in my life. We came to the decision to open up about 3 years ago, mostly stemming from me discovering I was bisexual. I was also never able to "spread my seed" or "go crazy" and now I feel an increasing desire to go out and explore. Meanwhile, he was a virgin when I met him, so he really hasn't had that chance. That is what made us decide to open up, but we haven't really taken advantage of because of the things you already mentioned: time and effort. Full time work + part time job +going to school doesn't exactly leave you with the time to commit to relationships I already had. However the openness nevertheless helped me get rid of the shame of being attracted to other people. I was married, but I crushed on other people. It felt wrong, I felt ashamed, I questioned my relationship because of the bullpoop stories of "one happily ever after." Now the shame is gone, lifted, I'm free. Freedom and the poly community value of honest, open communication went a long way to actually strengthen my marriage. Moving back to your thoughts, I am a little confused by what you mean by "lean into your biology." Do you mean women don't need to have sex as much as men? On average, no, and that is true in my own marriage. That being said, my husband and I don't need to have an equal number of partners, just the freedom to do so if we choose. It does not mean we are not still bound by love, connection and commitment. It's just that what that means to us has changed. I won't pretend I know everything, and I'll have to think further on the idea of "exchanging one construct for another." All I know is that, so far, it has helped strengthen my marriage instead of weakening it.
There are very real consequences to attitudes like hers. People can lose custody of their children, jobs could be lost (especially in this era of social media where your employer can see what you post online - even if your profile is secured, anything you post here on these threads can be seen by your boss, who, for all you know, is also reading this) and other family members could disown you - all because one is poly. So her attitude can be dangerous.
When your employer has a morality clause in your employee handbook that states that they reserve the right to terminate you for unethical behavior outside of work, and they do not specify what is or is not unethical (thus leaving it open for *THEM* to define, not you) yes they could. My employer has such a clause in the handbook.
When your employer has a morality clause in your employee handbook that states that they reserve the right to terminate you for unethical behavior outside of work, and they do not specify what is or is not unethical (thus leaving it open for *THEM* to define, not you) yes they could. My employer has such a clause in the handbook. Not only that, but an employer like Catholic Charities would do so; I know someone who works for them, who has to keep certain aspects of her life hush-hush around her coworkers (mostly the fact that she's a pagan, not Catholic). They'd fire her for her religious beliefs. Not that far a step.
Yes, you are correct. Psychology Today ran an article about it 3 years ago, and there's more out there. www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-polyamorists-next-door/201401/the-five-most-common-legal-issues-facing-polyamorists
You need to read this article written by an HR professional about it. There are no laws that specifically PROTECT people when they engage in behaviors that fall into this gray area of "it's not illegal, but the management doesn't think that it is an appropriate representation of our company so we can use that as a bs excuse to fire someone" etc. www.evilhrlady.org/2012/12/im-polyamorous-can-this-hurt-my-job.html
Hey Mayim, I am one of those women who not only understand but practice open relationships. I'm also bisexual. So, in my case I will not be emotionally satisfied if I'm not in an open relationship. Now, I understand why you would have a hard time putting yourself in my shoes. But you have to understand that just because my body produces only one egg per month doesn't mean I, as a woman, can't understand the logic behind open relationships. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion and should be able to live the life you've chosen. However, I find it a tad bit obnoxious on your part to tell me how to live mine.
She didn’t tell you how to live your life at all. And honestly…..you sound like you get bored way too easily if you’re only ever in an open relationship.
@@esther2208 Yes, please tell me more about myself. I can't wait to find out how I truly am from some rando stranger on the internet. Thank you so much! My day is complete now.
@@esther2208people who decide that my life is any of their business royally piss me off. Get a hobby. My response was to an actor who made a public commentary. My comment is 4 fucking years old. You decided 19 hours ago to shoot your comment at me. Why do you think that was necessary? Just to irk someone who owes you nothing or were *you* in fact so bored that you projected your boredom onto me? Introspection may be in order for you.
+Mintberry Crunch (+others) Bisexual does not mean slut. Might not mean equal opportunities either - actually the exact 50/50 split of attraction (or including non-binary gender people equally too if you like) is unlikely; most bisexuals find themselves more attracted to certain gender properties than others, and its also MUCH easier to find a partner of a different gender because majority of people are straight. Plus its harder due to biphobia amongst others (I don't mean homophobia, thats a different thing though still can play a role)
It's funny because most bisexual people that I know (including myself) are very picky when it comes to the character of who they select as a partner. The idea that bi people are greedy is pretty funny.
WOW! I learned more from the comments than from the actual video. What I understand from my personal experience is that for some unexplained and really deep and profound reason every human being comes to this experience called life with different tendencies and none is right or wrong, they simply are. The biological explanation is kind of simplistic when trying to explain very complex concepts. In my experience, many times even people who have multiple partners can't explain why they feel that way or why they have those needs. The human spectrum is so complex and vast, that to stick to the biological component gets short. I feel that as long as we are responsible for our choices and if we can endure the consequences for every choice we make in a conscious way, then we can live in harmony with ourselves. And people who are or want to engage in open or non "traditional" relationships should be as open as their choices with their partners so no one gets hurt in the long run. Life is complicated...
If monogamy is primarily a social construct, why do so many people trying to have open relationships fail at being happy with their new arrangements? Many fail at entering into one successfully. Some may find it easy to have sex with other people themselves but get overwhelmed when their partner does, or has an emotional relationship with another. People are fine with the fantasy of it, the concept might appeal to them in their brain, but when they actually involve other real people it becomes too much for them. The concept of monogamy being only social construct, that we aren't meant too do it is just the opposite end of the circle. Different people will be ok with it, some will love it and others will hate it. It isn't just one thing. Slanting it as one thing or another I think hinders the acceptance of multiple ways of living.
Polyamory is not for me but it is suitable for others. It is better to have clear cut rules & boundaries rather than a poly person trying to constrain themselves in a monogamous relationship & either cheating (emotionally, intellectually &/or sexually) then hurting their partner & themselves. I expected this video to be a discussion but it sounded more like a lecture.
Hey Mayim, I understand you are a public figure and that you HAD to do the response video, however I agree with every single word you said.... No need, at least for me, to justify. Peace!
Many of the questions you ask about people in open relationships can be found in articles and blog posts by people in well-functioning, happy open relationships. I apologize for the possibly heteronormative, genderbinary terms I will use in the upcoming text (I'm simplifying for the sake of normative biology, though I am a genderqueer pansexual myself). While I get your logic about female biology (limited number of eggs) causing them to be more selective when it comes to mates, I'm not entirely sure that seletiveness necessarily causes them to look for fewer mates - or even mates suitable to spend our life with. As Darwin and other ethologists have noted, sexual selection sometimes goes completely against what you would expect from natural selection. And even if "leaning into our biology" means that I, as a person with (probably) double X chromosomes, would be less inclined to have multiple partners than someone with a higher testosterone production+sensitivity, it still does not mean I would not have any incitament to do so. But sure, I hear ya. I'm a monogomist myself (so far, at least). I'm coming from a place where that's the norm, and open relationships being used as a way to empower youth is new to me. Nobody should be pressured into a polygamous relationship. I just don't think you view the this 100% scientifically (you do, after all, also mention things you greatly value with monogamy), and it makes me want to defend the amazing people capable of having loving functional relationships with more than one person. And if we just make it about sex: If I find three males at a party with seemingly excellent genes - they all look good and smell great - it seems rational from an evolutional standpoint to sleep with all of them to increase my chances of a strong offspring. Especially if I'm already paired up with someone who would be an excellent co-parent. Let's both double-check our science, it's been a while since I actively studied sexology. Stay curious.
My two cents: if people are having safe sex and making it work, it's not really your business. Women are strong enough to leave if they are unhappy, if you say yes to an open relationship then know what you are getting yourself into. It makes women seem weak to say that the end up in the relationships against their will. I have seen all types of situations, and generalising is just bad. Some people are very happy being in open relationships. And I think you didn't take into account the people who are in committed, one person love deal, making a future together etc and just wanna have some casual sex sometimes, just for fun. It doesn't take away from their love from one another it just makes them both happy to be sexually liberated.
You rock on so many levels! It’s so refreshing to see someone so in tune with life. I grew up watching you. I love all your work. I have to admit, I’m glued to your channel lol. Your parents definitely raised you right. Because most child stars are no where near your level of sane. Your definitely a role model. Thanks for making this channel. It really allowed to see that the way I think about raising kids and relationships isn’t old fashion nor crazy. You really confirmed for me that I’m not alone with how I think. Thank youuuuuuuu.
Thanks Mayim. Words of wisdom are hard to find these days. As someone significantly 'older' than yourself, I find it refreshing to hear a Gen-X/Y woman bringing this subject to the fore.
Mayim, I like a lot of what you're saying, but I would be remiss not to point out that your science is a little flawed on one point: Most primates aren't anything resembling monogamous. This is a pretty well-established fact - monogamy is incredibly rare in the animal kingdom in general. Also, you're missing part of the time management equation. If you are splitting your time between two partners and they are only seeing you, then yes there is a problem. Clearly each of them only has half a partner and you've got unnaturally high drains on your time and other resources. In practice, however, this almost never occurs, and the time you aren't around is easily filled by your partners' partners. It's also not uncommon for all the members of such a group to just spend time together as a group. Your thinking on this is limited by imagining Vs and triangles instead of imagining the open graphs that such relationships actually are.
Polyamory is a real thing that works very well for me and my partners and lots of other people out there. It's much less restrictive than monogamy and makes both me and my wife and other partners happier than monogamy. It might not be for everyone, but it sure is for the best for us. It takes a way a lot of pressure that can present itself in mono relationships, for example if you have unmatched sex drives one partners won't have to go unsatisfied or have an affair. Talking about women 'having' to be in open relationships because their man wants so makes the assumtion that the man always is the one with the most sex drive, this is not the case. Beeing more than one romantic relationship at once does take more time and effort, but it is very rewarding when it working. It's not just about having one "real" partner and then having sex on the side, even if you may do so as well. I'm in several loving, long term, devoted relationships with people that i love deeply. Opening up my 9 year old monogamys relationship with my wive, that was already really good, made it even better.
Kudos! I admired you as a person to begin with, and your conciliatory post regarding Consensual nonmonogamy just increased my view...particularly as a gay black man with a Jewish family in a 13-year-old, non-monogamous, relationship with a Jewish transman!
It's about being honest and open communicating your unhappiness, detaching yourself to be independent, or wanting to experience things but can't out of guilt and losing the person they love even if they are wanting to feel that way with others and letting go of feeling too attached. Emotional attachment is a part of relationships and if you can feel that way with another person, it means you're human and can feel loved by anyone. The future is important for us as we're getting older and I think a lot of people think about death a lot and it makes everyone want to experience as much as possible before that time comes. We don't know if we're going to be with the same person forever from withholding these experiences we wish we could secretly experience. Guilt plays a big part in staying monogamous instead of being more open about their own happiness they could be lacking for themselves. It's really our lack of identity and independence is something we lose when in a long term relationship especially if you've gone through the ups and downs. I think being really up front instead of keeping secrets, you'll be living a more free life and not having to worry about feeling scared. I think too many are scared of loss. It makes sense but that's what makes it hard for people to detach or be honest.
As a really old broad, (I'm about a decade older than you.) who has lived both monogamous and nonmonogamous relationships, and has many friends who are in nonmonogamous relationships, I have to say that a lot of your assumptions about open relationships are not accurate. Open relationships do not require anybody to have sex with anybody else. They are just "open" to the idea. Successful open relationships take both partners' needs and feelings into account and have good boundaries in place. I can honestly say that my nonmonogamous relationships (and those of the people I've known who were in them) have failed for the same reasons that monogamous relationships fail. Open relationships require the same types of communication and compromise other relationships do. I have friends in polyamorous relationships who co parent their children. Those children are in loving, committed families. They just have more parents living in the same house with them. Yes, it can be complicated, but it works for a lot of people. It would not work for a lot of other people. It's not a requirement, just another option for those who feel it is right for them.
I have a lot of friends who are polyamorous, and for the most part it works for them. They go into secondary or tertiary relationships with their eyes open, and guidelines in place. Non-monogamy doesn't work for me, because of my issues, and I know that which means I am not looking for a partner who is interested in an open relationship.
Very well said. However, I am an OB/GYN RN. We treat Gonorrhea with dual therapy. Pt's receive 250mg of Rocephin IM along with 1gm of Azithromycin PO. We also treat the partner(s). Pt's are further advised to abstain at least 2 weeks and/or until a repeat test is negative. Thanks for bringing a factual, non biased view to all of your videos!
I have swung with two partners and am for "do whatever is right for you and yours, and I'll do the same." We all have our ways for various reasons. Something that I've never heard anyone else mention is that swinging can actually give you a MUCH GREATER APPRECIATION for your own partner. Why would that be? Because other people (typically) don't do things as well as your own partner can. Some people, say, are rougher than you like, or aren't as rough as you would like, are shaped differently than what you prefer, are awful kissers, can't find a g-spot to save their life, don't grip well enough... you get the idea! So yeah, it can be fun to be with someone else, but it can also be MUCH BETTER to come home to the #1 in your life. Swinging is also a bonding experience with your partner if you do it together, same as going to an amusement park is. Delving into sexual fantasies is definitely a bonding activity! This point also typically gets ignored for some reason. Meh! We all do what's right for each of us, that's how it works, right? ---Don't get me wrong, sometimes people do stuff better than your partner does, and that's ok -- you still very much enjoy things with your partner! You just also have fun bonding together when having sexy times with others AND getting your needs met. That's the other thing: whose to say your partner doesn't want you to be fulfilled like that? Goodness, when you're in a secure-enough place, it's a massive turn on to see your partner swinging from the chandelier with someone else! It doesn't have to be a bad thing at all. And if it IS scary (and sometimes it is), you fight and then bond about being scared about them wanting to run off with that person over there, and you get reassured that that will never, ever happen for various reasons. So it's not all doom and gloom and bad stuff, ok? I've read your "I was wrong about open relationships" video and it's awesome! Well done!
I think you are missing something by just looking at it biologically and not emotionally, or mentally. Some people male and female are wired to seek same sex partners and that is not going to result in babies. Some people even before seeking relationships know they need more then one person to be with to get the same benefits that monogamous people get out of just one person. I am monogamous and married now, but have been with many men and I don't regret that. I love sex and I loved trying a bunch of people and things and finding out what I like. Sex is natural to me like eating a dinner, sure it's better to have dinner with someone I love, but eating with a fun partner is great too especially when I am starving. Anyone pressured into having an open relationship is not in a good situation, but in my experience most Poly people bring it up before things get serious.
Slightly out of date understanding, she left out sperm competition. That story of women selecting one mate is a myth. The scientific evidence points to competition happening at the level of sperm within the female. Though it may have been different in recent history, we evolved in a context where women had multiple partners during ovulation period and in fact within short time frames. The penis is designed to remove previous sperm deposits as well as sperm being designed to combat sperm deposits of other men. This effect is particularly strongly evident in humans, suggesting tens of thousands of years or more of adaptation. There are many characteristics of male and female genitalia, sperm, and general human behavior that cannot be explained by the outdated monogamy model, of which barely any examples in nature can be found. Dont take my word, research further for yourselves.
I pretty much agree with your thoughts... kinda... for the most part. I do have to say there are many exceptions and special reasons why someone might form an open relationship. Opening up my marriage saved my marriage. It's too long of a story to share here, and you may not believe me, but had we not ventured into this realm, Im confident my relationship with my wife wouldv'e died a horrible death.
Hm. You can have predictiveness and closeness in open relationship. The main thing in it, to my mind, is you can have closeness and freedom in the same time. You are kind of just implementing the objective potential of communication, mutual sympathy and interest between people without forcing them into forms of communication they are not really into. You are not forcing youself and other into some contrived vision of "how relatioships should be", you just enjoing youself and others, and doing you best so they would enjoy it too. That's the key - being openhearted and minded.
Hi Mayim, I'm convinced monogamous too. But I don't agree with this biological argument. Using biology to defend monogamy it's also use biology to defend a heteronormative behavior. How this leaves the LGBTQ community?
I totally respect the thought and frankness with which you approached this. I have arrived at a similar position, but for only some of the reasons you articulate. I experimented with open and poly relationships for a while, and ultimately found it to be overly exhausting. As you articulated, I just didn't find that I had the temporal or emotional bandwidth to invest in more than one partner, even when the person I was with actively encouraged me to do so. Also, I just couldn't deal with the idea of approaching people I was interested and trying to explain that I was interested in them even though I was involved with someone else, but hey, seriously, she's totally ok with this. Yeah. No. I'm just not that guy. All that said, I've seen open relationships with others have about as much of a shelf life as monogamous relationships. I think it really does depend on a lot of different constructs, including your larger social community, whether or not you are looking to have kids, if your main partner is asexual or has a generally low sex drive, etc. So I don't really have the same cognitive conflicts that you do. What works for one person won't work for another and I don't have to participate in a relationship model in order to respect it. (I'm not saying you don't respect people who choose this lifestyle, btw.) So for me, been there, tried that, decided it wasn't for me... but your milage may vary.
I *so* appreciate your candor ...but, just because you don't understand how something could work, doesn't mean that it doesn't... maybe it works out for others. I am not open/poly, but I get how it could be either over taxing, or incredibly supportive.
Well, I can't say that the preference you have for the type of relationships you want to be in is wrong. However, to make the argument that this is somehow the rule because of biology is called "the naturalistic fallacy". Fact of the matter is that there is a portion of the population (throughout history) who doesn't prefer monogamy and manages to have fulfilling relationships/lives. This shows that only shows that there's no necessary "natural/biological" component which dictates the type of relationships best suitable for human flourishing. There's no logical connection between the way our reproductive systems work and the type of relationships best suitable for human beings. For all you know, the reason women create such few eggs is because the body has to continuously prepare itself and optimise fertility for conception. Since the egg grows into a baby in the female body this process takes time and effort. But after ovulation, chances of a damaged egg increases tremendously, leaving a short space of time for fertilisation. And when this doesn't occur, the body gets rid of the "risky" egg and starts the process anew. The male reproductive system might work the way it does because it's challenging for sperm-cells to survive in the acidic vagina and find it's way to the egg. Not to mention all the malformed sperm-cells which are produced. There's also the possibility that some men naturally have a low sperm count, so it's important to optimise the number of sperm-cells available. Perhaps it's difficult for females to make it difficult for sperm to fertilise the eggs because the body wants the best/fastest/most efficient sperm to fertilise the egg. Perhaps males have so many sperm-cells, to be able to compete against sperm of other males already present in the vagina. All these arguments (including yours) could be a reason as to why the reproductive system works the way it does. But it's all still the naturalistic fallacy. Being in a open relationship could actually be beneficial emotionally because the children have multiple caretakers which can give each other time off from care-taking. It could give different sets of parents the opportunity to bond without having to worry about the children well-being (there's a trusted parent taking care of the children already). It could allow people to have different needs/desires satisfied by each partner. Not having a need/desire satisfied in monogamous relationships is typically a big component as to why people cheat. Open relationships give people the opportunity to solve problems by consulting different people which all have a different take on the situation. It allows you also to consult someone intimate, who understands the parties involved, for well-informed advice. Open relationships won't work if the people involved don't communicate well and satisfy the needs of the parties involved. This is something which is the same for monogamous relationships. (so it's not unique to open relationships). You could have 10 bad monogamous relationships due to incompatibility, but have one open relationship which is good. It's all about being fortunate enough the come across the right person/people at the right time. The STI argument isn't a valid argument either. Since you need honesty and safety precautions in both type of relationships. If you're in a monogamous relationship where someone cheats on you, you could just as well end up with gonorrhoea. Being in an open relationship requires trust, honesty, faithfulness etc. just as much as it does with a monogamous relationship. Cause let's be honest. When we take a look at how faithful people are in monogamous relationships (and how often this leads to infecting a partner with a STI), it's safe to conclude that monogamy is in no way a guarantee for living a STI free life. The only way to be certain you don't catch an STI from a partner is by having none (which brings it's own complications for the human psyche with it). I think there's a good chance monogamy is the dominant relationship type because it's a form of objectification of people. If you look back in history, this is especially the case for women. If women had premarital sex this would decrease their value and limit the dowry the father would get. Children would be treated as trading objects rather then people with their own personality and preferences. It's a form of the capitalist ideal seeping into how personal relationships are constructed and function. The same way a healthy human being can have close, meaningful and trusting friendships, it's also possible to do this with romantic/sexual relationships. Just because you risk coming across bad friends doesn't mean that you should exclude yourself from making new ones. The same argument could be made for intimate relationships. Why is it that we are able to share our friends and make new ones to fit different needs of ours, but we can't do this for intimate relationships? I think it's certainly possible to do this for some people. All relationships are different and have a different dynamic. What matters is that people involved are satisfied with the relationship(s) they have. The reason it's challenging for so many people is probably because the dominant culture teaches us to have certain expectations from relationships. It teaches us to have certain desires. It teaches us to have certain insecurities and fears. We treat our partners as an extension of us rather than as individuals with their own needs and desires. We treat our partners to behave in a way where we feel like we should be the only person being able to satisfy them sexually/emotionally. We allow our own desires to get in the way of theirs. Everyone has to draw a line as to how they want their relationship to be for themselves. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to have a relationship simply because everyone is different. What works for you, or 99% of the people even, might not work for the other 1%. Rather than inadvertently pushing our own preferences onto others by presenting it as some type of objective fact, try to reserve judgement and perhaps learn from the differences there are. Perhaps you'll find out something about your own desires/relationship/partner. I find this video a bit disappointing. It comes across as if you're saying: i understand your arguments, but you're objectively wrong about what constitutes a good relationship. (people use this argument for gay relationships, interracial relationships etc. too. Example: "gay people can't have children, so they're not meant to be together biologically". Well, if you're a sterile man & woman, does this mean you're also not meant to be in a relationship? It wouldn't be optimal for our "biological" desire to reproduce right? As if relationships are only constructed from our desire to reproduce optimally. People have sex to bond or for fun too. There are ways in which we have sex which biologically don't make any sense (because it's impossible to fertilise anyone that way... if you know what I mean) It's fine to have your own preference, but try to be cognisant of the fact that something which doesn't work for you, might work well for others. And perhaps the things which don't work well in your relationship, is something you can learn from other relationships. I personally prefer monogamous relationships and have never been in a open relationship. I don't exclude the possibility of open relationships in the future, but don't have a particular interest in it right now. I also try to understand other relationships and take learning experiences which could help my own. If others are happy having a relationship which I don't like, that's fine because it's not my relationship anyway. Who am I to say they're wrong?
In my opinion, it is a high and difficult point this of open relationships. Because despite what nature indicates I agree with monogamy. In this moment of my life I think that with the passing of time when a person is young he may think that open relationships is the most appropriate for all "advantages", whereas the time goes by, I feel that one seeks to find stability. Even though many people think that a open relationship is benefit, isn’t for me.
My sister used to practice polyamory and may again in the future. She and her significant other good with that. I'm completely monogamous and so is my husband. It's what makes us happy and comfortable. Do what makes you happy so long as you aren't hurting anyone else. There is nothing wrong with polyamory, and yes it is possible to meet the needs of more than one partner.
Open relationships are Like going to Disney Land, having a great day. And than come Home. Home to where you want to come to every day For, the Rest of your Life.
Exactly how does a person want to go out of the relationship to seek another when life demands too much of our time already and little to no time left with for your primary relationship. And I don't know how to have sex but make love. It takes me time to get comfortable with someone sexually , emotionally , and in every way. It's not about taking her out to show her you love her but the quality and quality will require rested mind and body. Let's be real. How many of you have taken your partner on a date just because you feel she needs it or deserves it what have you and truly you are just tired from work or everything that is happening in your life. So then how do you truly enjoy that date ? And you think your partner don't know it. No way. We do. We know it. But you wanna go out and make time to take someone else out and give your body to someone else. I think this is so unfair and cruel. I mean what can I say to people who agree on this but it will never be okay with me. I don't like to share what's mine. I don't like to compete with another woman over my man. I don't like what everyone else can have. I don't like it or am I attractive to men who out there looking for sex or attention outside of our relationship because my heart just wasn't built for that. To me there's nothing sexier than a man loving you and being fully satisfied with me. I'll cry and wrestle over this but eventually it won't take me long before I move on if I confirm to be in any relationship where my man gotta be out there searching for another woman. That's degrading , embarrassing , painful , and too much to handle for a heart like mine. No sir.
im not in and open relationship but once i saw it explained as this....many people have multiple best friends because you benefit different things from each friend... same with sexual/romantic relationships. when you put it like that, open relationships make sense!
As someone who is polyamorous, we schedule time, we communicate (and I mean A LOT), trust and honesty and very sex positive. Oh and conpersion. Shared calendars are an AMAZING tool and a lifesaver honestly. Also there are so many types of open, consensual non-monagamy (swingers, polyamory, open relationship) and they even have subcategories. Everyone I personally know who are in some form of open relationship, are using protection, getting tested REGULARLY. And some, if not most, require a new partner to either show or get tested before getting physical. Also, it's not always about sex. But at the end of the day, not everyone is monogamous and not everyone is polyamorous. It's a spectrum and everyone falls somewhere. Also, If one is feeling neglected, we talk and figure out why and how to remedy it. Same goes for jealousy. I wouldn't have started another relationship if my first relationship was having issue. My relationships are stable, healthy, loving, communicative, and honest. ❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
To some her views might seen orthodox, but whatever she said is true and logical. Open relationships seems more like a rebellion rather then liberation.
"whatever she said is true and logical." Seems true, I bet, to some people who already agree with her. But her "argument" (it's really not much of one when you break it down) starts with a factual inaccuracy and goes down hill from there. This was a very sloppy video.
As a biologist and a monogamous person I think it's totally okay for a person to be in an open or polyamorous relationship (I do not know the difference between them but I was curious and I will research about it) AS LONG AS he (or she) is doing this because he is genuinely curious and interested in this type of relationship and not because he thinks that's the only way he will he be able to stay with the person for whom he is interested or because he thinks that only then he'll be able to find/stay with someone.
As strongly as you feel about spending fifty years with the same person, the divorce rate would indicate that sixty persent of our population doesn't feel the same way. Monogamy started when we started being tied to a piece of farmland, which was just a moment ago on our evolutionary timeline. As hunters and gatherers on the move we could change partners often, the father was still nearby. Now as city dwellers, we are on the move again. We swing, we have open relationships, but mostly we divorce multiple times and get new partners. As for time, we got a babysitter.
Teri Thomas marriage is for the benefit of kids. People who divorce are just being selfish and should never have wed in the first place. Even if people are in love and want to spend 50 together, I think they should avoid marriage unless they are planning on having kids.
Respectfully, an open relationship does not necessarily mean you sleep with tons of people or that you do not have a deep relationship with them. It also is not as tiring as you imagine it. The best explain I cannot think of off the top of my head is only having one child then deciding to have another. Your love and time is not limited. Secondly, I often hear of couples opening up the relationship because one needs/wants more time and the other does not have it. I am not saying I am on board with the idea. I just want to clarify open does not eqaul many partners or meaningless/shallow relationships. p.s. I LOVE your videos
I've dated polyamorous people, and their little club of who was "in" was charming. They were warm, communicative, and pretty clear about what they did and didn't want. But - as a serial monogamous female I always felt they were skirting the depths, never really diving into the pool, preferring to play with each wave as it came to the shore. Additionally, I agree that the standard structure contains enough challenges to last a lifetime. I'm not complicated enough for the polyamorous or open lifestyle. My friends can do what they want, and while it may feel to me as though they have stopped at a certain stage of development (let's call it "experimentation,") - we all stop somewhere.
JanCarol11- I swear, if you didn’t just take this out of a book... You need to be a writer! I just read that twice because it was written so well. Thank you.
I definitely understand your point of view and, for the most part, agree. However, the notion that you can only give 100% to one partner is... fundamentally flawed. If that were the case, then how can you be emotionally available to more than one child at a time? Or even ONE child since you have your partner to think about. If we, as a species, were incapable of loving and caring for others on a deep emotional level then how do we have tight knit families and communities. If we're that incapable then how are we able to care about the well being of our neighbors and other cultures? Exhausting as it may be, I don't think it's impossible to have a fulfilling, meaningful love life outside of a monogamous relationship, regardless of the fact that I may not be able to pull it off.
I grew up in a happy, loving home. I have seen my parents to be 💯 devoted to each other. So I expected the same for myself but then the current dating scenario made me realise how wrong I am. I am a traditionalist and I identify myself as a serial monogamist but I cannot find people who are looking for the same thing. So yeah I am single and maybe I’ll die alone because polyamory is just against my nature
i understand you don't get how to give to more than one relationship at a time, it IS exhausting. But being a person with so much energy for other people, like me, you sometimes can't get all you need or want from one single person, and like the variety of having many options in the form of many different relationships, to get what they want out of a single relationship. more relationships, more variety. i like not having to put on any one person, all my effort, all my wants or needs. i like to spread it around. you also have the chance to become different forms of yourself inside those relationships, as everyones chemistry with you will be different, and bring out different sides of you. One person may be better to talk serious subjects with, while another person is better to cuddle with, silently. (an opposing viewpoint, thanks for listening )
I think one assumption that you make that isn't true for everyone is that you must awfully available to all partners, and they must be fully available to you. This isn't always true in poly relationships. You may have one person you live with, cook with, have sex with, raise kids with. Another person you may have deep intellectual conversations with, watch anime with, and have sex with. Another you may go camping with once a year and have wild sex with. Poly is acknowledging that it is impossible for one person to fulfill us spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and physically, and embracing the fact that we can divide those needs between multiple people. Healthy monogamy acknowledges the same thing, but instead you find other ways to cover up those holes that your partner can't fill. Sometimes that is through friends and hobbies, sometimes that is through giving up on some of those things and choosing to not be 100% fulfilled, sometimes that is through having multiple monogamous relationships throughout a lifetime. I believe both systems can work fine as long as everyone communicates, and you should be able to go between the systems depending on your needs at the time. sincerely, a person in a monogamous relationship who has several poly friends and family.
I'd be interested to hear your views on Asexuality - on those, men and women, who have no desire for sex. Also, those asexuals who choose to have open/polyamorous relationships.
Most asexual men have low testosterone. A lot of other asexual people have had traumatic sexual experiences. Then of course some are just wired different but it doesn't matter they won't have kids with this defect.
medicinally sorry, but as an asexual myself, and with my experiences with other asexuals, I can honestly inform you that that is a load of rubbish. I have personally had no negative sexual experiences (still a virgin in my mid 30s with no desire or intention of having that changed), nor have I suffered any sexual (or indeed any physical) abuse in my life. No other asexuals I have had the pleasure to know have ever suffered sexual abuse, and their bodies (like mine) are perfectly capable of the usual biological responses to sexual activity (if they so choose to engage in any despite their lack of sexual desire). I was simply curious to hear her take on it, as I am sure she takes time to research topics before speaking about them.
I should also add my hormone levels are perfectly normal, as are those of others who have had their levels checked that I have asked and read posts from in the past.
So refreshing to hear somebody carefully build an argument and give attention to both points of view. This is amazing. I would so love you to do something similar on pronouns and gender identity.
Follow up: Me admitting I got it wrong. ruclips.net/video/CiFXacTf0hA/видео.html
Right or wrong are social constructs...
Thank you for having another video about how you got it all wrong. You truly did! I am 41 years old. My entire life I tried to comfort to what society told me I had to be but somehow it didn’t make me happy. About 2 years ago I found myself having a deep loving relationship with 2 men and they both know about each other. They have met each other I have dates sometimes with both of them together and I feel like, I found my tribe. Sorry for my bad English as it is my second language.
My job requires me to interact with people in a very intimate way and people open up to me. I have such more deep understanding about human nature and sexuality. It’s so not black and white. It’s so beautiful in so many ways.
Anyways! Thank you dear
@carlos sandoval I think Mayim is much better looking than JA (btw Aniston is one of my favorite actress ever).
You sound like you want an open relationship low-key.
Meh, I think you actually got it right in this one. 😂
I mean, different strokes for different folks. But.... 🤷🏻♀️
Thank. You. For saying "this is what I get" and "this is what I don't". THANK YOU! This is how real, productive conversations happen!
No it's not
@@zapkvr”I understand this, I don’t understand that, please explain that in the comments” sounds productive to me.
Wow this is great! I'm 22 and a senior in college. I have been dating a girl for 2 1/2 years now and plan to marry her one day. People around me will joke about having a "side chick" and when I tell them I don't do that they then treat me like I'm some rare species of a human. It's nice to know I'm not alone on the monogamy boat because that's how I was raised and I agree that being in one relationship takes so much of my time already that I couldn't possible handle two or more. thanks for the video.
If your friends are teasing you about not cheating on your girlfriend I would find new friends. Not betraying your partner is like the bare minimum for trust in a relationship. You don’t deserve a trophy for not giving her STDs and breaking her heart.
Wow, that is weird to hear comments like that from your friends. What's wrong with these people that they've normalized having "people on the side" and think yoire weird if you don't..? People have gotten weird and screwed up, so twisted, especially the younger generation making this trendy.
Please don't take any of this as a personal attack, I genuinely like you (as much as I know about you as someone who's never met you), but hopefully you will read all this with an open mind.
1. There is a distinction between polyamory and open relationships. I bristle when people call polyamory "open relationships" because it implies a lack of structure, communication, and faithfulness (yes, you can be a faithful polyamorist!)
2. Relationships =/= Sex =/= Reproduction. You do not need to procreate in order to have meaningful (and even sexual) relationships. We are more than just eggs and sperm. And yes, gay, bisexual, pansexual, asexual, and transgender people all exist. Sex and gender are more than "simple" biology (as if biology were ever simple anyway!).
3. On loving, giving, and making time and energy for more than 1 partner: you do already know how to do it because you have more than one child. You didn't stop loving your first child when you had your second, did you? Would you be able to make room for a third in your heart? Don't you have more than 1 friend at a time?
4. You can't fix an existing relationship by turning your back and finding another partner, that's what turns people into serial monogamists, but all of the polyamorists I've ever known (and there have been quite a few) don't go hunting for a new partner when their current relationships are on the rocks. That's when you close yourself to new relationships and work on strengthening the ones you have. Yes, polyamory is complicated. Relationships are complicated, otherwise the divorce rate wouldn't be so high.
5. Quite frankly, the idea that there is one and only one person out there for you is against biology. There are 10 billion miles of DNA in the human body. Every human being is distinct and unique, even identical twins. What are the odds that you will ever in your life encounter the one person whose combined DNA and life experiences make them a perfect complement to yourself? Why are we so hell bent on trying to force one person into a situation where they are solely responsible for all of our sexual and emotional needs?
6. Polyamory doesn't invalidate monogamy any more than homosexuality invalidates heterosexuality. The two can in fact coexist in the world, just as much as its possible for people to live happy fulfilled lives without a sexual/romantic relationship at all if that's how they're wired. Don't let your personal experience make you think that you have the only valid life experience in the world.
7. As far as being old-fashioned, don't let the post-victorian era fool you into thinking that alternative relationship styles, sexualities, and sexual freedom didn't exist in the past. They have existed throughout history, but modern history is mostly written by old, straight, white guys who aren't really that interested in things that don't directly benefit them, and have frequently been quite hostile to ideas and people they felt threatened by, as I'm sure you well know.
Alex Reith Your last point kept flashing through my head as I listened to her refer to herself as old fashioned. There are plenty of examples of non-monogamy in Western culture that predate the current increase in visibility and interest in it, like poets and artists of the 19th century that often practiced something akin to polyamory. Or, heck, look at the free love movement of the 1960's. So, ya. This is not a new thing.
Damn, your third point hit me with logic like a rock. It's so true. On point two. I agree that we are more than eggs and sperm, but being an open-minded person and scientist, when philosophing on polyamory and open relationships in the modern context, my thoughts often go back to biology. Because biology dictates many of our behaviours. I would call it instinct. And different people have different instincts, meaning exactly that there is more in nature than pure heterosexuality and procreational sex. So I understand why Mayim uses biology as an argument and her point of view is clearly based on her own instinct. And that's completely okay. Being heterosexual (if she is? I'm not sure) and monogamous is just as natural as being polyamouros and bisexual, for example.
Being straight and monogamous is totally ok. What's not ok is using pseudo-science to post-facto justify your prejudice and try to coerce and shame an already stigmatized and misunderstood minority. The science behind what she's saying doesn't exist (if it ever will). Also, it's not like evolution stopped, it continues on, our species continues to evolve, so there's no reason to revert to paleolithic sexual practices--which would be impossible anyway, since there's just not enough data to support any of her claims. Future evolutions of human biology will favor different traits than our ancestors had, and there's no good reason to go backward.
When I wrote my first comment, I was feeling charitable and open minded, but the more I think about it the more I doubt that what she's trying to do is start a conversation or that she'll even read most of these comments, or respond to any of them, and the more I feel like this was just a hot-button, sensationalizing, clickbait video to boost her views and subscribers. And while there's nothing wrong with creative attempts at boosting views, it's really shitty to be in the target group of a misinformation campaign because someone who already gets plenty of press wants to get more clicks.
Alex Reith well I am not Polly, and absolutely do not agree with Mayim. I may not have first hand experience but I certainly can defend that people should do what works best for them and using biology to go against this is just... I don't even know how to qualify it.
I especially love your third point. Loving one person doesn't mean you're taking away love from another. Most people love more than one person at a time. Family, friends, spouse, etc.
Hi Mayim! I rarely comment on videos, but I think my testimony could be interesting, as I am a polyamourous person.
Open relationships are not about fixing a failed relationship by seeing other people, it's not just about sex, and it's not a promiscuous situation where everybody's sleeping around. (Well it can be, but monogamous relationships can be shitty too, full of lies and miscommunication and cheating, sleeping around, etc.)
I've never met people as consent-focused, safe in their communication and their sex habits as in the polyamourous community of Paris (I'm French. No that's not a cliché ^^ polyamourous people are rare even in France). A good polyamourous relationship includes respect, care and love of all parties, complete honesty, constant self-work, as well growing together (just with more than one person), helping and supporting each other. Polyamourous relationships can create beautiful families, beautiful communities.
Being polyamourous is not about being greedy or wanting always more sex and distraction, or about running away from responsibilities and commitment. It is about accepting that your partner doesn't belong to you, and that possessivity is only a construct based on self-doubt, low self-esteem, and the overgrown egos that are so valorised in our society. You don't lose anything when your partner loves or makes love to another person. You are enriched by their enriched happiness, you often gain a friend in their new partner, and the diversity of relationships can only make everyone stronger.
The social construct that we let go of is not so much the one that men and women are the same (that's a different story). It's the one that says that owning and controlling your partner is essential to maintaining your honor. I think that's a useless and counterproductive way of seeing things. We should focus on giving, growing, creating together, not refraining and shaming people for their desires/curiosities/attractions/loves. Of course, you can let go of this construct and still choose to be with one person! But once you've accepted that the relationship is free and flowing, evolving as its members evolve, you'll have room for much more change, conversations, and renegociation of its terms as time goes by.
As for the argument about limited time, focus, and energy. Well, you make time. It's like making time for one lover when you thought taking care of yourself was already a lot! And like making time for kids when you thought taking care of one lover was already a lot.
And for the argument about biology, I just think it's simply a bad argument. But that's been said in other comments. This argument is dangerous, and can be used against polyamourous people as well as gays, trans people, but also women scientists (women shouldn't be scientists, they were made to conceive and care for their kids), small people, disabled people, etc. If we gave in to our biology we would do a lot of horrible things, and forbid a lot of beautiful ones. Biology didn't tell us to make buildings and send stuff to space. We are able to question and bend the laws of our biology and that's what makes us human.
Please, next time document yourself before making broad statements. I find it odd you talk about open relationships as if you had answers to provide about it, even though you haven't experienced it, and don't seem to have talked with someone who has. Next time, come to the subject with a more open mind, maybe invite someone to talk with you, ask them questions, etc.
Thanks for this comment. I'm monogamous and I still found the bit about "stick with your biology" pretty insulting, on a human level.
I saw your follow-up video before this one. Seeing parts where some people may have a problem we tend to forget you are stating your point of view. You are only telling how you feel about it and not how others should. Reading a lot of the comments you started a discussion that expanded my knowledge and view of the subject; so thank you.
Leonard Smith
Yes but Mayim is stating her personal view in a public forum, so some responsibility accrues to be fair and proportionate and accurate in presenting that view, no? I think she did herself proud in acknowledging some of the problems with the presentation of her preference, though.
@@s1npl1c1ty And she's sharing her disagreement while FIRST claiming that she is a "scientist" and then giving an overly simplified (populist and conservative) breakdown of male vs female reproductive processes. People will mistakenly think that her view is 'objective' and not what it actually is: personal, biased, outdated, and regressive.
I mean, when it comes to the idea of being exhausted by multiple relationships and connections, I'd say....we are able to maintain relationships of all levels of intimacy with various people. It's why we have romantic relationships with partners, relationships with kids and family, relationships with friends. There's a sliding scale of what and how you share in all of those scenarios.
I don't agree with open relationships for myself but its important for me and others to know about this. I don't want my daughter/son tomorrow to feel uncomfortable talking to me about this merely because I'm a possessive partner. May each soul, whatever they identify as, find happiness. Thank you for teaching me something new, Mayim!
JoElen247 In the culture that I come from (India), Muslims have multiple wives and Hindus are culturally monogamous. As an agnostic, the younger ones in my family have justified multiple sexual partners on the ground that our Muslim friends have multiple wives so why can't we. The problem is that in my immediate society sexual partners or lack thereof are justified or dismissed based on religion (and how its been interpreted by a small circle of people) and no one wants to see what science suggests. So for me to break out of a religion based debate into a coherent scientific one is new. I'm not saying Mayim has given me an answer, but she's pointed in a direction which is worthy of exploration because it challenges the biological sexual equality of men and women, while admitting to the social relevance of multiple partners to thwart patriarchy.
Priyanka Murali I'm a Muslim, and I can defo say that whilst religiously it is ok to have multiple wives, there are of course certain conditions in which it is ok. For example, if the first wife agrees to it for whatever reason. This is however practices very rarely from what I have seen and is not widely accepted. I personally would never agree to allowing my husband to bringing in another person into the relationship because I would not be able to cope with knowing that he is physically having sexual intramuscular with someone else. Furthermore I do want children and I would not be comfortable in letting my children call someone else mum or enjoy explaining why their father is sleeping with some one else. This is just how I feel, of course everyone is entitled to however they feel, but this is just how I feel about this situation.
Mayim Bialik
I'm with you on the central premise that women shouldn't have to feel like they need to be sexual in the same way that men are, because we are different, but...
I feel like you unnecessarily judged people in open relationships and polyamorous relationships that do work. There are more scenarios to consider than just the stereotypical 'sleeping around cuz I can' situation. Not all people who are in open or polyamorous relationships do it for the same reasons or in the same way. Not all polyamorous people even have sex to begin with.
If you don't like people having unprotected sex with lots of people, then advocate for protected sex, don't tell them they shouldn't have sex with, or date, lots of people.
If you don't like it that women/girls are being manipulated into casual sex, then tell them to only have sex they really want. Tell them that manipulative bastards are not worth it, even if everyone else thinks they're hot. Tell them to pay attention to their own emotions, and that if they feel bad about having casual sex, then they shouldn't do it. Warn them about red flags for potentially abusive partners.
But don't just categorically reject any relationship that involves more than two people.
What about people who are in exclusive polyamorous relationships, the kind that includes 3 or 4 people who all love each other, and who don't sleep around or date around with people outside of that relationship?
What about people for whom polyamory is part of their sexual identity, who can't feel comfortable in monogamous relationships? A lot of them will tell you that they feel trapped in monogamous relationships, it feels wrong. Others will tell you they can't handle the pressure of being the sole responsible person for another person's well-being. They find thát too much to handle. They'd rather cooperate with multiple people so they wouldn't bear the full responsibility of "managing someone's needs and desires, paying them attention, holding them when they're sad and raising their kids" all by themselves. They'd rather have their kid grow up with 3 or 4 parents to look after them. To me that actually sounds more manageable than the standard two-parent setup.
And what about asexual polyamorous people who can't find an asexual partner? Quite a number of them practice polyamory in order to get the intimacy of being in a romantic relationship, without having to compromise their bodily integrity.
Not all people experience their sexualities in the same way. Just because the majority of the population functions better in monogamous relationships, doesn't mean that's the case for everyone. Just because you don't understand what it feels like to be a polyamorous person, doesn't mean it's wrong, or incomprehensible, or too difficult to manage. Please look at the reality of polyamory before declaring it infeasible.
Maybe I misinterpreted, but it feels very condescending when you tell women to 'lean in to their biology'. Women don't need people to tell them that being promiscuous isn't part of their nature and so they shouldn't do it. They don't need you to tell them what it is they actually want. You can't read their minds.
And please don't use evolution to police people's sexualities. Don't you see that that same argument can be used to tell gay people they're living their lives wrong because they're not perpetuating the species? And asexual people? Even worse. Didn't evolve right. Waste of space.
As an asexual who is considering polyamory as a way out of having to compromise my body in order to not die sad and alone, your words in this video sound condescending, moralizing, prejudiced and uninformed. I'm sorry. I respect you a lot, but this wasn't your best video.
I second you. She made a lot of assumptions here that were just way off the mark.
Thanks, I hope she sees it :)
+
well said
Laurann I'm gonna research this again and make sure I'm not speaking out of line, but I think she had two objectives here.
1)to create an open dialogue on the subject of relationships (I know it was focused on open relationships, but she deferred to "traditional" relationships as well)
2) She expressed her thoughts and concerns on the matter. She didn't say she was right, she left it mostly as "I don't understand why its...."
She also mentions she's old, so I dunno. Perhaps if I were in a relationship with more than one person my perspective may change.
As a person part of a monotonous relationship, You do You!
(For what it's worth, I can't add anything to the discussion so I'm gonna keep my opinion to myself, I just wanted to throw it out there that maybe it was a matter of perspective, and she put her thoughts out there to bring forth discussion.)
Kick some ass!
I didn’t realize the concept of a relationship had become so trivialized. Can’t we all agree to simply strive for a good, healthy, and happy relationship? I think the message here was very well said and also a fascinating conversation anyhow (And also hilarious simultaneously). Excellent food for thought. I prefer the old-fashioned type of relationship myself and I’m happy about that. I’m liberated because I’m in a happy relationship with someone I genuinely care about and want to protect and nurture with love, kindness, and good times.😊😇
As a child of someone who has parents married and faithful for 60 years, I applaud this. I only wish I could have achieved something on the order of their relationship.
As a primatologist I have to say you get quite a few things wrong about our "biology". First, the majority of primate species are NOT monogamous; only a tiny handful of primate species are. Second, primate females in many species are sexually promiscuous - most often we think as a way to avoid infanticide by confusing paternity. Third, none of this holds for humans anymore - we don't generally need to confuse the men around us as to whether a kid is theirs or not so they don't kill it. Neither do the men in our society (at least for the most part) want a lot of children by random women. Lastly, for the most part we expect both sexes to play an active role in raising the children they produce - so for us monogamy might actually make the most sense (obligatory bi-parental care is usually what you find in species that are monogamous). It's a naturalistic fallacy to urge people to "lean into their biology" whatever that even means. Relationships should be about finding someone compatible enough and important enough to you that you can figure out a way to be together that makes both of you happy.
I have friends who are polyamorous. I am not. I have friends who are gay. I am not. I have friends who are straight. I am not. I have friends who are bi. I am not. I have friends who drink alcohol. I do not. I have friends who enjoy country music. I do not. I see people all around me who have different values, qualities, types of understanding than I have. I don't truly understand them, but I understand them distantly, like one might understand the Na'vi from Avatar from watching the movie, but not really understand them because they're fundamentally different. I can't judge people by my own standards, because I'm not "normal", but I try to judge them (more or less) by their own standards.
"Men and women's sexuality are not the same" Finally someone with some ideas that are backed up by logic. You are my hero!
Men and men's sexuality aren't the same. For Christ's sake
Did anybody say they were? Anybody?
as a former biologist and now biology teacher: the biology does not actually affect sexual behaviour in the way you said. Benefits do. Since it is beneficial for bonobo-chimps to have sex with many conspecifics they do so. They get rewarded for having sex not only by "pleasure" but also by the reactions of their group. It was beneficial for us to be a monogamist in many cultures. In the western world contraceptives kind of washed away the benefits we get from being monogamous. so pleasure is the biggest benefit left affecting sexual behaviour. So our behaviour will slowly change to bonobo like relationships.
Yeah, what she is saying is. It based on science, but rather a popular theory the does not allow for variations such as homosexuality, changes in the modern world, and the idea that women would be at a genetic advantage to not lock herself into only investing in children made with one man and all the genetic issues his bloodline would contain, and be beneficial to for women to not put all her eggs in one basket?
Thank you ! I was thinking the same thing......
Agree 💯
I believe people who are into open relationships are people who haven't find that one person who rocks their world and who they inevitably fall in love with. I mean, when that happens you don't ever think about anybody else but your love. And if you ever do think about anybody else, if you get stronger feelings for that new person it means your initial love wasn't that strong. Or if it isn't comparable to your initial love it means you are with the right one and that's why this beautiful and commited relationship between two people exists
I'm a bit older than you, have been in a monogamous marriage for 36 years, and have not been with another women since I started dating my wife. Yet I find this vid be something that I would expect to hear from my grandmother. As someone else mentioned, you could re-do the video with "being in a lesbian relationship" with the same script. You're (apparently) not a lesbian, and you're not ployamorous either. So it's not surprising that you don't "get it." But there are plenty of sources out there that would give you some insight into these types of relationships, even it they're not for you. Or you could read Robert Heinlein's _The Moon Is A Harsh Mistress_. Or just read the 506 comments already made.
Robert Keefer you have a good point...but the main point I see void in every person's argument even witjing the video is the fact that every person is biologically different down to their individual genes...I.e. This is her biological mind presenting itself while yours is to be monogamous or someone else is to be gay or lesbian
Robert Keefer I like your sass at the endXD great comment.
Geano Cide Literally no one is saying that Mayim should engage in polyamory if she doesn't want to. We're merely pointing out that some people do want to practice it and that her comments come across as shaming and judgmental for the way they are living their lives.
buttercreamsunshine please reread my comment...I am not bashing anyone or saying anyone is wrong...I am simply staing that every person is biologically different which leads to their own formulated opinions which are based on their thinking process, morals, values, religious influences etc..I just pointed out that no one has mentioned this...the basic human difference is the individual biology (as she noted) of every person which makes up their individual preferences and identity
ugggghhhh accidentally clicked a link and lost the long comment I was typing out. Hope I can remember it all.
TLDR: 1 you mostly talked about polyamory not open relationships
2 false claims were made in the video like primates being typically monogamous.
3 leaning into your biology is not always the best thing.
I like that this was presented as more of an opinion piece than an advice video because there are quite a few errors I would like to address.
I'd suggest renaming the video to "My thoughts on Polyamory" because that is what you described at the start and 4:48. There are multiple types of open relationship/consensual non-mongamy. There are FWB(friends with beenfits) type situations, fuck buddy situations, etc etc etc. You only talked about 1 type really.
I'd also suggest doing a bit more research before making claims on what you know. 4:18 While this may be your personal experience, much of the published research seems to agree that sex positive communities(including CNM communities) are much more likely to be aware of their sexual health(frequent tests) and to use protection than others. 0:52 As far as I am aware primates, just like the majority of other species, are NOT typically monogamous(especially sexually) even those species that do pair bond. In fact 2 of the closest relatives to the humans, the chimps and the bonobos are anything but monogamous.
I'm not sure if this was your intention but 5:12 - 6:04 seems to come across as you saying that open relationships only occur when there is trouble in the relationship. While this is sometimes (often? not sure on statistics here) the case, there are plenty of people who prefer to live their life this way and some who claim to be(are?) oriented this way.
Now with all that out of the way. I can actually comment on the video. You say lean into your biology but people already regularly takes steps to fight the biology that are beneficial like birth control pills that you mentioned among other things.
Anyhow I do appreciate your thoughts on it but maybe try to be a bit more factual next time. I still feel I forgot something that i said the first time. Oh well.
I appreciate how well you conveyed ur thoughts without mocking or taunting.
I appreciate how you conveyed ur thoughts without criticizing or mocking her views
Yep. Agree with it all, TheAnomaly. And women are KNOWN start affairs, to look for the "alpha male." We can be just as HORNY as men...as a group, I mean.
The single thing you have to ask yourself about open relationship is this: Is my wife (or husband) worth all my attention/love, or are they not. Because if you feel the need to have a relationship outside a marriage, then the only thing you are saying is your current partner isn't good enough. And that's the most hurtful thing I can ever imagine. How crushed would your partner be to hear you say "well, I like you, but you don't fulfil me, so I'm going to have to bring in 1, 2 3 other people to meet all my needs'. Look, if you don't want to be tied down to 1 person, or if you haven't found that special someONE, then just don't get married. MB is right, it's just a social construct. There is no harm in not falling into it. There is harm in falsely using it though. Look at those phonies on sister wives. The lack of self worth in those women is heartbreaking. Not a single one of them has the self worth to understand they deserve a husband that loves only them. You get married to Mrs. Jones. Not Mrs. Tuesday, Thursday and every other weekend. And the pig-of-a-husband on those shows. They are obviously just perverts who are in it for the sex. They have to be. Look at it another way, look at that one family that has 19 kids. How special is it really when you celebrate one of those kids birthdays? The reality is, it's not special at all. They are just a number in the system at that point. Same with multiple partners. The more partners you have, the more watered down the relationship becomes. Having just two partners means you can only give 50% of yourself to each partner. That's just physics. You will never be able to tell a woman "your are the most beautiful person I have ever met', 'you are the love of my life', etc. Because really, you only mean that on Tuesdays, Thursdays, and every other weekend for her. The other women is the most beautiful women to you on the other days of the week. Sad. MB, I saw your apology video first, came back to watch this one to see why you needed to apologize. You didn't need to make the second video.
Australia? Multiple wives in Australia? Where? I live here and you never hear of that...
ME TOO!!!
But I suspect she may be talking about indigenous persons. Some indigenous cultures do have multiple wives, AFAIK, but they are in the minority.
No idea where Mayim would have got the idea from, though.
And - if it is true - where are all my spare men?!?!?
Hahaha I caught that too...
I think she is talking about the aberinies.
I’m Australian I’ve never heard of this lol
Me too! I don’t think it is legal. But when I worked at Centrelink we had rules around payments for polygamy. It mostly happens with immigrants but I think certain alternative lifestyles would be included.
Maintaining a positive and healthy relationship with myself (mentally) and my fiancé (soon to be husband) + dealing with my family and his… I personally can’t imagine adding someone else into this much on such an intimate level.
I’ve seen a video of 4 people in a polyamorous relationship and even if they “don’t know or care who the father is” I’m sure in some ways you can tell by looking at the kids and I couldn’t help but wonder if that causes any resentment, favoritism and/or or other issues.
Since I’m from South Africa I know of many men with multiple wives and I often hear about jealousy issues and it just seems exhausting to me… but to be fair, in these cultures it’s very patriarchal in the sense where the hierarchy is very strict… the man at the top, the first wife below and so on… but not everyone is always happy with that, especially when a second or third wife gives birth to a son before they first. Infertility also causes a lot of issues.
A friend of mine told me how when her grandfather died (who had multiple wives) her father and his siblings (along with their mother, the second wife) were thrown out and left with almost nothing…
All relationships take work so I understand that one with more people so intimately involved will naturally have difficulties (like any other relationship)… it just seems like too much for me 😮💨
"primates are monogamous"
No they're not. Most aren't anything like monogamous (with something like polygamy being the most common.)
But a few species do what's called "pair bonding." They form monogamous style relationships, but without the strict monogamy that we add. That is, even species that practice pair bonding still have sex outside those pairs.
Literally love your channel. I just feel like you are explaining my thoughts about the topic (opened relationships, sexualization of women in name of empowerment...)....which is why my friends and lots of people around often think I am old fahioned and prude (even though I'm 27). I am very happy someone like you has a similar outlook on this topics as I do :D
My take on open relationships are like them saying "You will do for now", but I want to see other people. Then after they have played the feild they will find someone better than the other person, and leave them. I am in a closed, monogamous relationship, and we just celebrated our 11 year anniversary. My brother however is in a open relationship, and he has gone through a lot of partners because he stays with one until he finds another to be with.
I am in an Open relationship. I See it Like that: If i am really "the one" For my Partner. Than He wont find someone better. If i Need him to stay away From Other "better" Woman, than why am i together With him at all?
When you say “lean into our biology” but you’re not advocating for either monogamous or open relationships, what exactly are you proposing?
Is it that men should be allowed multiple partners and women stick to one because of our biology?
Or that we should be free to choose whatever based on what both people feel best provides for all people involved in the relationship?
can't we just have both and appreciate its values and advantages? Like everything else, experiences have shown us that everybody is different and special and therefore should treated this way. (i am not saying someone should be treated better than an another individual) Just let be tolerant and let other people live their lives.
What I don't get is why people feel the need to tell others what they don't get about their relationships
Yeah. Some context around her decision to tell her viewers that she doesn't get open relationships may have gone a loooong way to mitigating the issues with the content.
I feel the same way and I can't express how wonderful it is to hear someone else express it so clearly.
It's very simple : to some people it DOES work. That is no wrong or right. Better or worse. Just people doing their choices. And let's not forget : for a lot of women and men that prefer monogamy out there , cheating it's "ok" too 😉 And please, don't put women once again in a biological limit. Trust me, for some women monogamy it's (or marriage, sex only with love...etc) it's not an interesting thing. And it's not exhausting nether...😊
Thank you for this, Mayim. Somebody I know tried this and got into a lot of trouble. Sex for the sake of sex also comes with its own repercussions. You may get away with it some of the time, but it doesn't mean your luck will last forever. I have studied psychology, the way men and women behave sexually and the emotional implications. I had warned this person about what would happen, but they did not believe me. It wound up with two people going through serious depression and one person going completely nuts trying to teach the other two a lesson. Just watching it play out was horrible.
Women only produce one or two eggs per month. However, we have as much sex drive as men. Women should not be judged because of their amount of sexual partners just like men are not judged in that field either. An open relationship can be as satisfying as a monogamous one. It's just about doing what you really want and having a good communication with your partner. People have always been unfaithful and open relationships make that not be a big deal and help people focus on what really matters about a relationship. Condoms should always be worn, btw.
💯
Why women should not be judged by the amount of partners? Let me judge as I please. Men are not judged because women don't judge them, they want the popular men. Women pretty much create all the social norms because they are the more wanted sex. That pretty much explains why men work hard to get power and money, because it benefits them in the eyes of women (and thus in the eyes of other men as well) and why women don't have to get money and power.
"It's just about doing what you really want", that doesn't mean it's good for you or for others. At least when you are young, understanding consequences is pretty hard. And overall consequences on society are unbelievable hard to know. Open relationships wont solve unfaithfulness. And people have always been faithful too. To really know what open relationships does, we would have to do 50 year follow up research. The results would be pretty horrible.
The main reason women were expected to remain 'virtuous'..and faithful back in history was to mainly make sure any children she may have with her husband,were his children...simple as.
Thank you!! Couldn't say it any better
for me personally sleeping with someone else than my partner is not appealing at all. I have to feel some level of connection and commitment, I don't just see someone in a bar and want to go at it.
but other people have other attractions and that's okay.
I don't know why you felt the need to make this video and pretend that their attractions are anything to do with swapping social constructions.
I never woke up and decided to be a straight monogamous person...... I just am. other people just are what they are too. There's nothing to get and I don't feel any need to have a talk to them about sexuality transmitted diseases.... open relationship people are adults who have heard of stds.
seems like you decided what isn't you is hard to understand and then tried to complicate your understanding of it by thinking about gender and evolution.... did you think of gender and evolution to be who you are?!?????
I use caution in your argument. Yes, we don't choose to be monogamous or not, but these choices are guided by our social constructs. What relationships did you seeing growing up (probably mainly monogamous). Yes there isn't a conscious choice, but we are influenced by what we see.
👌
Ameliorated
I also don't have a desire to sleep with someone without a level of connection and commitment. The only difference between you and me is that I do desire to have connection and commitment without limiting it to one person at a time. :)
To be clear this isn't an attack on your monogamy preference, just pointing out that your lead-in justifies wanting to have casual sex, but doesn't acknowledge that for many people open relationships are not about casual sex. This is my primary issue with Mayim's video, that it makes that assumption -- open relationships are a mechanism for permitting casual sex. This is something that causes a lot of crappy stuff for poly people, who are often expected to be closeted about having multiple relationships because it's "bedroom talk," when open discussion of monogamous relationships is assumed to be about, y'know, your life and the important relationships in it, and is therefore fit for public discussion. If we can do away with the assumption that poly is a "bedroom thing," we can hope to change the fact that our relationships are treated as promiscuous and frivolous, but mono people's relationships are treated with respect.
''but these choices are guided by our social constructs. What relationships did you seeing growing up (probably mainly monogamous). Yes there isn't a conscious choice, but we are influenced by what we see.''
..including youtube videos and statements like ''sex with other person than your partner is fine'' repeated countless times and presented as a cool thing cool liberated people do or ''sex positivity'' culture. Although you can be monogamous and sex positive at the same time cause you're positive about sex.
Not that I'm trying to impose my views on you. It's just that you have to be honest till the end. Both of these preferences can easily be guided by society to various degrees in each case. Social construction thing is what makes us different from other animals as I believe. It's not bad in itself and it will always exist, no matter what. It can change but the social construction phenomena won't go anywere. It's just one social construct replacing another. In case with sleeping with one person per relationship vs more than one it's way too relative and individual for you to know what's better for certain people. It's just should be discussed with your partner from the beginning and you should be totally honest with them about that. If you criticise gender roles or archaic things about monogamous relationships then that's another thing. Those things are clearly harmful and they have hierarchial and oppressive nature.
+Vegendetta But open relationships are a mechanism for permitting casual sex. Being in an open relationship means you're not exclusive with your parter. Polyamory isn't the same thing though.
Oh man, I think everyone else has made good points. Way to paint people who choose polyamorous relationships as women bring victimized by horny men.. I feel sorry for all the strong independent women out there she just marginalized.
It took myself and my gf awhile to get there, but at the end of the day, it's about letting go of your jealousy, which is detrimental to both your mental and physical health. Now, we don't actively seek out other partners, but it's more about IF we find someone with whom we decide we need to have in that way, we are allowed to do so, safely. In my mind, if she needs something that I'm unable to give her, why wouldn't I allow her that? In the entirety of our 10 year relationship, she has been with one other man and we were both with another woman.
i agree and i think you are completely right. i've been in a poliamory relationship and it was horible. i got very depressed and realized i'm monogamous. open relationships are not for me.
@RunFor OurLives People can be jealous in poly or open relationships, what matters is how the person handles their jealousy
@@dancechica yes but it's a juggling game which will eventually deplete one's emotional energy. You will not feel a real connection with someone when they have another relationship and especially when you know about it. How much do they love you? They'll be there when you need them or they prioritize the other relationship ? How does this work? I may be called old-fashioned but I agree with Mayim. Sometimes is too much with only one partner and you also have to work and entertain friendships, raise children, etc.
@@johnmarriano This is so incredibly true. I was talked into being in a poly relationship with a woman who is a huge advocate and also went to Canadian courts to fight for her right to be poly. When I entered the relationship it was great to begin with. But her interest in me and energy shifted to other guys and couples she was seeing. Soon it became 'discussions' when I was feeling left out or abandoned. Lots of talk about how my views were wrong and my feelings were discounted. I got so tired of hearing how poly is ''natural" and love is for everyone. After several months I finally confronted her as her dating pool was expanding and I hadn't even met most of her people. Despite her Psych degrees and constantly telling others how we had the ideal life, I finally told her I'm done. She had little time for me. She was never wrong and I was always wrong in my feelings and views. Basically I got replaced in two weeks by another 'Primary' who was excited to diddle her.
No one in that poly group ever checked in on me or asked how I was. There wasn't love (despite that being what she said was the focus) but just a lot of people excusing their need for sex. Maybe poly relationships can be good, but it showed me how they can irreparably damage someone when handled poorly.
Hey, Lisa.
I appreciate that you are respectful with your disagreement with open relationships. I can certainly agree that being in an open relationship is exhausting, takes up a lot of your time, and also exposes to greater risk of, well, drama for lack of a better term.
So I thought I would share my story. I am actually in an open marriage, and I've been with my husband for about 6 years now. He is my rock, my light, my partner in my life.
We came to the decision to open up about 3 years ago, mostly stemming from me discovering I was bisexual. I was also never able to "spread my seed" or "go crazy" and now I feel an increasing desire to go out and explore. Meanwhile, he was a virgin when I met him, so he really hasn't had that chance.
That is what made us decide to open up, but we haven't really taken advantage of because of the things you already mentioned: time and effort. Full time work + part time job +going to school doesn't exactly leave you with the time to commit to relationships I already had. However the openness nevertheless helped me get rid of the shame of being attracted to other people. I was married, but I crushed on other people. It felt wrong, I felt ashamed, I questioned my relationship because of the bullpoop stories of "one happily ever after." Now the shame is gone, lifted, I'm free. Freedom and the poly community value of honest, open communication went a long way to actually strengthen my marriage.
Moving back to your thoughts, I am a little confused by what you mean by "lean into your biology." Do you mean women don't need to have sex as much as men? On average, no, and that is true in my own marriage. That being said, my husband and I don't need to have an equal number of partners, just the freedom to do so if we choose. It does not mean we are not still bound by love, connection and commitment. It's just that what that means to us has changed.
I won't pretend I know everything, and I'll have to think further on the idea of "exchanging one construct for another." All I know is that, so far, it has helped strengthen my marriage instead of weakening it.
There are very real consequences to attitudes like hers. People can lose custody of their children, jobs could be lost (especially in this era of social media where your employer can see what you post online - even if your profile is secured, anything you post here on these threads can be seen by your boss, who, for all you know, is also reading this) and other family members could disown you - all because one is poly. So her attitude can be dangerous.
When your employer has a morality clause in your employee handbook that states that they reserve the right to terminate you for unethical behavior outside of work, and they do not specify what is or is not unethical (thus leaving it open for *THEM* to define, not you) yes they could. My employer has such a clause in the handbook.
When your employer has a morality clause in your employee handbook that states that they reserve the right to terminate you for unethical behavior outside of work, and they do not specify what is or is not unethical (thus leaving it open for *THEM* to define, not you) yes they could. My employer has such a clause in the handbook. Not only that, but an employer like Catholic Charities would do so; I know someone who works for them, who has to keep certain aspects of her life hush-hush around her coworkers (mostly the fact that she's a pagan, not Catholic). They'd fire her for her religious beliefs. Not that far a step.
A quick Google search will show that people *have* lost their jobs and their kids because they're poly.
Yes, you are correct. Psychology Today ran an article about it 3 years ago, and there's more out there.
www.psychologytoday.com/blog/the-polyamorists-next-door/201401/the-five-most-common-legal-issues-facing-polyamorists
You need to read this article written by an HR professional about it. There are no laws that specifically PROTECT people when they engage in behaviors that fall into this gray area of "it's not illegal, but the management doesn't think that it is an appropriate representation of our company so we can use that as a bs excuse to fire someone" etc.
www.evilhrlady.org/2012/12/im-polyamorous-can-this-hurt-my-job.html
Hey Mayim, I am one of those women who not only understand but practice open relationships. I'm also bisexual. So, in my case I will not be emotionally satisfied if I'm not in an open relationship. Now, I understand why you would have a hard time putting yourself in my shoes. But you have to understand that just because my body produces only one egg per month doesn't mean I, as a woman, can't understand the logic behind open relationships. You are absolutely entitled to your opinion and should be able to live the life you've chosen. However, I find it a tad bit obnoxious on your part to tell me how to live mine.
She didn’t tell you how to live your life at all. And honestly…..you sound like you get bored way too easily if you’re only ever in an open relationship.
@@esther2208 Yes, please tell me more about myself. I can't wait to find out how I truly am from some rando stranger on the internet. Thank you so much! My day is complete now.
@@OsmosisReverse I mean you do seem to care about rando strangers’ opinions (mayim bialik’s) 🤷♂️
And sorry, I’m biased. People that can’t stay committed royally piss me off.
@@esther2208people who decide that my life is any of their business royally piss me off. Get a hobby. My response was to an actor who made a public commentary. My comment is 4 fucking years old. You decided 19 hours ago to shoot your comment at me. Why do you think that was necessary? Just to irk someone who owes you nothing or were *you* in fact so bored that you projected your boredom onto me? Introspection may be in order for you.
Dating is exausting 😄
*exhausting
MiMi Star see, that's the exhaustion messing with spelling skills! Lol 😂
Erin Vaughn agree
+Mintberry Crunch (+others) Bisexual does not mean slut. Might not mean equal opportunities either - actually the exact 50/50 split of attraction (or including non-binary gender people equally too if you like) is unlikely; most bisexuals find themselves more attracted to certain gender properties than others, and its also MUCH easier to find a partner of a different gender because majority of people are straight. Plus its harder due to biphobia amongst others (I don't mean homophobia, thats a different thing though still can play a role)
It's funny because most bisexual people that I know (including myself) are very picky when it comes to the character of who they select as a partner. The idea that bi people are greedy is pretty funny.
WOW! I learned more from the comments than from the actual video. What I understand from my personal experience is that for some unexplained and really deep and profound reason every human being comes to this experience called life with different tendencies and none is right or wrong, they simply are. The biological explanation is kind of simplistic when trying to explain very complex concepts. In my experience, many times even people who have multiple partners can't explain why they feel that way or why they have those needs. The human spectrum is so complex and vast, that to stick to the biological component gets short. I feel that as long as we are responsible for our choices and if we can endure the consequences for every choice we make in a conscious way, then we can live in harmony with ourselves. And people who are or want to engage in open or non "traditional" relationships should be as open as their choices with their partners so no one gets hurt in the long run. Life is complicated...
If monogamy is primarily a social construct, why do so many people trying to have open relationships fail at being happy with their new arrangements? Many fail at entering into one successfully. Some may find it easy to have sex with other people themselves but get overwhelmed when their partner does, or has an emotional relationship with another.
People are fine with the fantasy of it, the concept might appeal to them in their brain, but when they actually involve other real people it becomes too much for them.
The concept of monogamy being only social construct, that we aren't meant too do it is just the opposite end of the circle. Different people will be ok with it, some will love it and others will hate it. It isn't just one thing.
Slanting it as one thing or another I think hinders the acceptance of multiple ways of living.
Polyamory is not for me but it is suitable for others.
It is better to have clear cut rules & boundaries rather than a poly person trying to constrain themselves in a monogamous relationship & either cheating (emotionally, intellectually &/or sexually) then hurting their partner & themselves.
I expected this video to be a discussion but it sounded more like a lecture.
Polyamorous; a term for someone that chooses not to love someone. Love is a choice ( one person) not a feeling.
Mayim, I love watching your videos. You are a woman I look up to and admire. Thank you for sharing your obstacles with us and your wonderful journies.
Hey Mayim, I understand you are a public figure and that you HAD to do the response video, however I agree with every single word you said.... No need, at least for me, to justify.
Peace!
I agree. Monogamy is beautiful; being with one person and complementing each other, it is as if in the end they were the same being.
What a wonderful ability to put all the cards on the table and yet allow for each person to pick up the cards they want to play with. Great speach.
Many of the questions you ask about people in open relationships can be found in articles and blog posts by people in well-functioning, happy open relationships. I apologize for the possibly heteronormative, genderbinary terms I will use in the upcoming text (I'm simplifying for the sake of normative biology, though I am a genderqueer pansexual myself).
While I get your logic about female biology (limited number of eggs) causing them to be more selective when it comes to mates, I'm not entirely sure that seletiveness necessarily causes them to look for fewer mates - or even mates suitable to spend our life with. As Darwin and other ethologists have noted, sexual selection sometimes goes completely against what you would expect from natural selection. And even if "leaning into our biology" means that I, as a person with (probably) double X chromosomes, would be less inclined to have multiple partners than someone with a higher testosterone production+sensitivity, it still does not mean I would not have any incitament to do so.
But sure, I hear ya. I'm a monogomist myself (so far, at least). I'm coming from a place where that's the norm, and open relationships being used as a way to empower youth is new to me. Nobody should be pressured into a polygamous relationship. I just don't think you view the this 100% scientifically (you do, after all, also mention things you greatly value with monogamy), and it makes me want to defend the amazing people capable of having loving functional relationships with more than one person. And if we just make it about sex: If I find three males at a party with seemingly excellent genes - they all look good and smell great - it seems rational from an evolutional standpoint to sleep with all of them to increase my chances of a strong offspring. Especially if I'm already paired up with someone who would be an excellent co-parent.
Let's both double-check our science, it's been a while since I actively studied sexology. Stay curious.
Holtza "Stay curious"! You watch sexploitations, uptop! 🖐️
👏👏👏👏
Just love how honest you are! Thank you for sharing.
My two cents: if people are having safe sex and making it work, it's not really your business. Women are strong enough to leave if they are unhappy, if you say yes to an open relationship then know what you are getting yourself into. It makes women seem weak to say that the end up in the relationships against their will. I have seen all types of situations, and generalising is just bad. Some people are very happy being in open relationships. And I think you didn't take into account the people who are in committed, one person love deal, making a future together etc and just wanna have some casual sex sometimes, just for fun. It doesn't take away from their love from one another it just makes them both happy to be sexually liberated.
You rock on so many levels! It’s so refreshing to see someone so in tune with life. I grew up watching you. I love all your work. I have to admit, I’m glued to your channel lol. Your parents definitely raised you right. Because most child stars are no where near your level of sane. Your definitely a role model. Thanks for making this channel. It really allowed to see that the way I think about raising kids and relationships isn’t old fashion nor crazy. You really confirmed for me that I’m not alone with how I think. Thank youuuuuuuu.
To each his own. I prefer to be with one person.
Thanks Mayim. Words of wisdom are hard to find these days. As someone significantly 'older' than yourself, I find it refreshing to hear a Gen-X/Y woman bringing this subject to the fore.
Mayim, I like a lot of what you're saying, but I would be remiss not to point out that your science is a little flawed on one point: Most primates aren't anything resembling monogamous. This is a pretty well-established fact - monogamy is incredibly rare in the animal kingdom in general.
Also, you're missing part of the time management equation. If you are splitting your time between two partners and they are only seeing you, then yes there is a problem. Clearly each of them only has half a partner and you've got unnaturally high drains on your time and other resources. In practice, however, this almost never occurs, and the time you aren't around is easily filled by your partners' partners. It's also not uncommon for all the members of such a group to just spend time together as a group. Your thinking on this is limited by imagining Vs and triangles instead of imagining the open graphs that such relationships actually are.
Polyamory is a real thing that works very well for me and my partners and lots of other people out there. It's much less restrictive than monogamy and makes both me and my wife and other partners happier than monogamy. It might not be for everyone, but it sure is for the best for us. It takes a way a lot of pressure that can present itself in mono relationships, for example if you have unmatched sex drives one partners won't have to go unsatisfied or have an affair. Talking about women 'having' to be in open relationships because their man wants so makes the assumtion that the man always is the one with the most sex drive, this is not the case. Beeing more than one romantic relationship at once does take more time and effort, but it is very rewarding when it working. It's not just about having one "real" partner and then having sex on the side, even if you may do so as well. I'm in several loving, long term, devoted relationships with people that i love deeply. Opening up my 9 year old monogamys relationship with my wive, that was already really good, made it even better.
Kudos! I admired you as a person to begin with, and your conciliatory post regarding Consensual nonmonogamy just increased my view...particularly as a gay black man with a Jewish family in a 13-year-old, non-monogamous, relationship with a Jewish transman!
It's about being honest and open communicating your unhappiness, detaching yourself to be independent, or wanting to experience things but can't out of guilt and losing the person they love even if they are wanting to feel that way with others and letting go of feeling too attached. Emotional attachment is a part of relationships and if you can feel that way with another person, it means you're human and can feel loved by anyone.
The future is important for us as we're getting older and I think a lot of people think about death a lot and it makes everyone want to experience as much as possible before that time comes. We don't know if we're going to be with the same person forever from withholding these experiences we wish we could secretly experience.
Guilt plays a big part in staying monogamous instead of being more open about their own happiness they could be lacking for themselves. It's really our lack of identity and independence is something we lose when in a long term relationship especially if you've gone through the ups and downs.
I think being really up front instead of keeping secrets, you'll be living a more free life and not having to worry about feeling scared. I think too many are scared of loss. It makes sense but that's what makes it hard for people to detach or be honest.
As a really old broad, (I'm about a decade older than you.) who has lived both monogamous and nonmonogamous relationships, and has many friends who are in nonmonogamous relationships, I have to say that a lot of your assumptions about open relationships are not accurate. Open relationships do not require anybody to have sex with anybody else. They are just "open" to the idea. Successful open relationships take both partners' needs and feelings into account and have good boundaries in place. I can honestly say that my nonmonogamous relationships (and those of the people I've known who were in them) have failed for the same reasons that monogamous relationships fail. Open relationships require the same types of communication and compromise other relationships do. I have friends in polyamorous relationships who co parent their children. Those children are in loving, committed families. They just have more parents living in the same house with them. Yes, it can be complicated, but it works for a lot of people. It would not work for a lot of other people. It's not a requirement, just another option for those who feel it is right for them.
I have a lot of friends who are polyamorous, and for the most part it works for them. They go into secondary or tertiary relationships with their eyes open, and guidelines in place.
Non-monogamy doesn't work for me, because of my issues, and I know that which means I am not looking for a partner who is interested in an open relationship.
Found your point of view refreshing and bold and I appreciate someone in the public eye that represents us “old broads” 😉👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
Very well said. However, I am an OB/GYN RN. We treat Gonorrhea with dual therapy. Pt's receive 250mg of Rocephin IM along with 1gm of Azithromycin PO. We also treat the partner(s). Pt's are further advised to abstain at least 2 weeks and/or until a repeat test is negative. Thanks for bringing a factual, non biased view to all of your videos!
I have swung with two partners and am for "do whatever is right for you and yours, and I'll do the same." We all have our ways for various reasons.
Something that I've never heard anyone else mention is that swinging can actually give you a MUCH GREATER APPRECIATION for your own partner. Why would that be? Because other people (typically) don't do things as well as your own partner can. Some people, say, are rougher than you like, or aren't as rough as you would like, are shaped differently than what you prefer, are awful kissers, can't find a g-spot to save their life, don't grip well enough... you get the idea! So yeah, it can be fun to be with someone else, but it can also be MUCH BETTER to come home to the #1 in your life.
Swinging is also a bonding experience with your partner if you do it together, same as going to an amusement park is. Delving into sexual fantasies is definitely a bonding activity! This point also typically gets ignored for some reason. Meh! We all do what's right for each of us, that's how it works, right?
---Don't get me wrong, sometimes people do stuff better than your partner does, and that's ok -- you still very much enjoy things with your partner! You just also have fun bonding together when having sexy times with others AND getting your needs met. That's the other thing: whose to say your partner doesn't want you to be fulfilled like that? Goodness, when you're in a secure-enough place, it's a massive turn on to see your partner swinging from the chandelier with someone else! It doesn't have to be a bad thing at all. And if it IS scary (and sometimes it is), you fight and then bond about being scared about them wanting to run off with that person over there, and you get reassured that that will never, ever happen for various reasons. So it's not all doom and gloom and bad stuff, ok?
I've read your "I was wrong about open relationships" video and it's awesome! Well done!
Best line eva.. "The Sex" :)
Personally I enjoy the sex immensely...
The sex is wonderful, especially when you have a male AND female partner to have some fun with :)
jampy00TV when she said "buck it", did you have a double take on it? I did.
haha, indeed!
Kate Black and Asia?? which country in Asia, she means? I have never heard of. . 😕
I think you are missing something by just looking at it biologically and not emotionally, or mentally. Some people male and female are wired to seek same sex partners and that is not going to result in babies. Some people even before seeking relationships know they need more then one person to be with to get the same benefits that monogamous people get out of just one person.
I am monogamous and married now, but have been with many men and I don't regret that. I love sex and I loved trying a bunch of people and things and finding out what I like. Sex is natural to me like eating a dinner, sure it's better to have dinner with someone I love, but eating with a fun partner is great too especially when I am starving.
Anyone pressured into having an open relationship is not in a good situation, but in my experience most Poly people bring it up before things get serious.
Slightly out of date understanding, she left out sperm competition. That story of women selecting one mate is a myth. The scientific evidence points to competition happening at the level of sperm within the female. Though it may have been different in recent history, we evolved in a context where women had multiple partners during ovulation period and in fact within short time frames. The penis is designed to remove previous sperm deposits as well as sperm being designed to combat sperm deposits of other men. This effect is particularly strongly evident in humans, suggesting tens of thousands of years or more of adaptation. There are many characteristics of male and female genitalia, sperm, and general human behavior that cannot be explained by the outdated monogamy model, of which barely any examples in nature can be found. Dont take my word, research further for yourselves.
chibisphere thank you I don't know why she can base her whole idea on just gametes
What an interesting theory, thank you !
I pretty much agree with your thoughts... kinda... for the most part. I do have to say there are many exceptions and special reasons why someone might form an open relationship. Opening up my marriage saved my marriage. It's too long of a story to share here, and you may not believe me, but had we not ventured into this realm, Im confident my relationship with my wife wouldv'e died a horrible death.
Hm. You can have predictiveness and closeness in open relationship. The main thing in it, to my mind, is you can have closeness and freedom in the same time. You are kind of just implementing the objective potential of communication, mutual sympathy and interest between people without forcing them into forms of communication they are not really into. You are not forcing youself and other into some contrived vision of "how relatioships should be", you just enjoing youself and others, and doing you best so they would enjoy it too. That's the key - being openhearted and minded.
I like the way this girl thinks. True smarts
I did a spit take with my coffee when I heard "I want THE SEX", that just hit me as funny, thank you.
Hi Mayim,
I'm convinced monogamous too. But I don't agree with this biological argument. Using biology to defend monogamy it's also use biology to defend a heteronormative behavior. How this leaves the LGBTQ community?
I totally respect the thought and frankness with which you approached this. I have arrived at a similar position, but for only some of the reasons you articulate. I experimented with open and poly relationships for a while, and ultimately found it to be overly exhausting. As you articulated, I just didn't find that I had the temporal or emotional bandwidth to invest in more than one partner, even when the person I was with actively encouraged me to do so.
Also, I just couldn't deal with the idea of approaching people I was interested and trying to explain that I was interested in them even though I was involved with someone else, but hey, seriously, she's totally ok with this. Yeah. No. I'm just not that guy.
All that said, I've seen open relationships with others have about as much of a shelf life as monogamous relationships. I think it really does depend on a lot of different constructs, including your larger social community, whether or not you are looking to have kids, if your main partner is asexual or has a generally low sex drive, etc. So I don't really have the same cognitive conflicts that you do. What works for one person won't work for another and I don't have to participate in a relationship model in order to respect it. (I'm not saying you don't respect people who choose this lifestyle, btw.)
So for me, been there, tried that, decided it wasn't for me... but your milage may vary.
I *so* appreciate your candor ...but, just because you don't understand how something could work, doesn't mean that it doesn't... maybe it works out for others. I am not open/poly, but I get how it could be either over taxing, or incredibly supportive.
Oh my gosh! This was amazing. You just killed this! I love how you explain your opinions. I have got to watch more of your videos!
Well, I can't say that the preference you have for the type of relationships you want to be in is wrong. However, to make the argument that this is somehow the rule because of biology is called "the naturalistic fallacy". Fact of the matter is that there is a portion of the population (throughout history) who doesn't prefer monogamy and manages to have fulfilling relationships/lives. This shows that only shows that there's no necessary "natural/biological" component which dictates the type of relationships best suitable for human flourishing. There's no logical connection between the way our reproductive systems work and the type of relationships best suitable for human beings. For all you know, the reason women create such few eggs is because the body has to continuously prepare itself and optimise fertility for conception. Since the egg grows into a baby in the female body this process takes time and effort. But after ovulation, chances of a damaged egg increases tremendously, leaving a short space of time for fertilisation. And when this doesn't occur, the body gets rid of the "risky" egg and starts the process anew. The male reproductive system might work the way it does because it's challenging for sperm-cells to survive in the acidic vagina and find it's way to the egg. Not to mention all the malformed sperm-cells which are produced.
There's also the possibility that some men naturally have a low sperm count, so it's important to optimise the number of sperm-cells available. Perhaps it's difficult for females to make it difficult for sperm to fertilise the eggs because the body wants the best/fastest/most efficient sperm to fertilise the egg. Perhaps males have so many sperm-cells, to be able to compete against sperm of other males already present in the vagina. All these arguments (including yours) could be a reason as to why the reproductive system works the way it does. But it's all still the naturalistic fallacy.
Being in a open relationship could actually be beneficial emotionally because the children have multiple caretakers which can give each other time off from care-taking. It could give different sets of parents the opportunity to bond without having to worry about the children well-being (there's a trusted parent taking care of the children already). It could allow people to have different needs/desires satisfied by each partner. Not having a need/desire satisfied in monogamous relationships is typically a big component as to why people cheat. Open relationships give people the opportunity to solve problems by consulting different people which all have a different take on the situation. It allows you also to consult someone intimate, who understands the parties involved, for well-informed advice.
Open relationships won't work if the people involved don't communicate well and satisfy the needs of the parties involved. This is something which is the same for monogamous relationships. (so it's not unique to open relationships). You could have 10 bad monogamous relationships due to incompatibility, but have one open relationship which is good. It's all about being fortunate enough the come across the right person/people at the right time.
The STI argument isn't a valid argument either. Since you need honesty and safety precautions in both type of relationships. If you're in a monogamous relationship where someone cheats on you, you could just as well end up with gonorrhoea. Being in an open relationship requires trust, honesty, faithfulness etc. just as much as it does with a monogamous relationship. Cause let's be honest. When we take a look at how faithful people are in monogamous relationships (and how often this leads to infecting a partner with a STI), it's safe to conclude that monogamy is in no way a guarantee for living a STI free life. The only way to be certain you don't catch an STI from a partner is by having none (which brings it's own complications for the human psyche with it).
I think there's a good chance monogamy is the dominant relationship type because it's a form of objectification of people. If you look back in history, this is especially the case for women. If women had premarital sex this would decrease their value and limit the dowry the father would get. Children would be treated as trading objects rather then people with their own personality and preferences. It's a form of the capitalist ideal seeping into how personal relationships are constructed and function.
The same way a healthy human being can have close, meaningful and trusting friendships, it's also possible to do this with romantic/sexual relationships. Just because you risk coming across bad friends doesn't mean that you should exclude yourself from making new ones. The same argument could be made for intimate relationships. Why is it that we are able to share our friends and make new ones to fit different needs of ours, but we can't do this for intimate relationships? I think it's certainly possible to do this for some people. All relationships are different and have a different dynamic. What matters is that people involved are satisfied with the relationship(s) they have. The reason it's challenging for so many people is probably because the dominant culture teaches us to have certain expectations from relationships. It teaches us to have certain desires. It teaches us to have certain insecurities and fears. We treat our partners as an extension of us rather than as individuals with their own needs and desires. We treat our partners to behave in a way where we feel like we should be the only person being able to satisfy them sexually/emotionally. We allow our own desires to get in the way of theirs. Everyone has to draw a line as to how they want their relationship to be for themselves. There is no "right" or "wrong" way to have a relationship simply because everyone is different. What works for you, or 99% of the people even, might not work for the other 1%. Rather than inadvertently pushing our own preferences onto others by presenting it as some type of objective fact, try to reserve judgement and perhaps learn from the differences there are. Perhaps you'll find out something about your own desires/relationship/partner.
I find this video a bit disappointing. It comes across as if you're saying: i understand your arguments, but you're objectively wrong about what constitutes a good relationship.
(people use this argument for gay relationships, interracial relationships etc. too. Example: "gay people can't have children, so they're not meant to be together biologically".
Well, if you're a sterile man & woman, does this mean you're also not meant to be in a relationship? It wouldn't be optimal for our "biological" desire to reproduce right? As if relationships are only constructed from our desire to reproduce optimally. People have sex to bond or for fun too. There are ways in which we have sex which biologically don't make any sense (because it's impossible to fertilise anyone that way... if you know what I mean)
It's fine to have your own preference, but try to be cognisant of the fact that something which doesn't work for you, might work well for others. And perhaps the things which don't work well in your relationship, is something you can learn from other relationships.
I personally prefer monogamous relationships and have never been in a open relationship. I don't exclude the possibility of open relationships in the future, but don't have a particular interest in it right now. I also try to understand other relationships and take learning experiences which could help my own. If others are happy having a relationship which I don't like, that's fine because it's not my relationship anyway. Who am I to say they're wrong?
Oh Mayim, you made so much sense and I have really never though of it in that way before, thanks for your video!!!!
In my opinion, it is a high and difficult point this of open relationships. Because despite what nature indicates I agree with monogamy. In this moment of my life I think that with the passing of time when a person is young he may think that open relationships is the most appropriate for all "advantages", whereas the time goes by, I feel that one seeks to find stability. Even though many people think that a open relationship is benefit, isn’t for me.
My sister used to practice polyamory and may again in the future. She and her significant other good with that. I'm completely monogamous and so is my husband. It's what makes us happy and comfortable. Do what makes you happy so long as you aren't hurting anyone else. There is nothing wrong with polyamory, and yes it is possible to meet the needs of more than one partner.
Open relationship means sleeping around and then going back to where you know your bread is buttered.
Open relationships are Like going to Disney Land, having a great day. And than come Home. Home to where you want to come to every day For, the Rest of your Life.
Cookie cutter thinking
Exactly how does a person want to go out of the relationship to seek another when life demands too much of our time already and little to no time left with for your primary relationship.
And I don't know how to have sex but make love. It takes me time to get comfortable with someone sexually , emotionally , and in every way.
It's not about taking her out to show her you love her but the quality and quality will require rested mind and body. Let's be real. How many of you have taken your partner on a date just because you feel she needs it or deserves it what have you and truly you are just tired from work or everything that is happening in your life. So then how do you truly enjoy that date ? And you think your partner don't know it. No way. We do. We know it. But you wanna go out and make time to take someone else out and give your body to someone else. I think this is so unfair and cruel. I mean what can I say to people who agree on this but it will never be okay with me. I don't like to share what's mine. I don't like to compete with another woman over my man. I don't like what everyone else can have. I don't like it or am I attractive to men who out there looking for sex or attention outside of our relationship because my heart just wasn't built for that.
To me there's nothing sexier than a man loving you and being fully satisfied with me. I'll cry and wrestle over this but eventually it won't take me long before I move on if I confirm to be in any relationship where my man gotta be out there searching for another woman. That's degrading , embarrassing , painful , and too much to handle for a heart like mine. No sir.
Ugh Mayim, I love you! I agree with this 100%. It's hard!
I enjoy Mayim's discussions! Thank you for sharing, Mayim!
im not in and open relationship but once i saw it explained as this....many people have multiple best friends because you benefit different things from each friend... same with sexual/romantic relationships. when you put it like that, open relationships make sense!
As someone who is polyamorous, we schedule time, we communicate (and I mean A LOT), trust and honesty and very sex positive. Oh and conpersion. Shared calendars are an AMAZING tool and a lifesaver honestly. Also there are so many types of open, consensual non-monagamy (swingers, polyamory, open relationship) and they even have subcategories.
Everyone I personally know who are in some form of open relationship, are using protection, getting tested REGULARLY. And some, if not most, require a new partner to either show or get tested before getting physical. Also, it's not always about sex.
But at the end of the day, not everyone is monogamous and not everyone is polyamorous. It's a spectrum and everyone falls somewhere.
Also, If one is feeling neglected, we talk and figure out why and how to remedy it. Same goes for jealousy. I wouldn't have started another relationship if my first relationship was having issue. My relationships are stable, healthy, loving, communicative, and honest.
❤️❤️❤️❤️❤️
I'm confused. Is she saying that mere polygamy is practiced in Australia, or marriage to multiple partners? The latter is illegal in Australia.
Apparently she prolly means indigenous folks
To some her views might seen orthodox, but whatever she said is true and logical. Open relationships seems more like a rebellion rather then liberation.
"whatever she said is true and logical."
Seems true, I bet, to some people who already agree with her. But her "argument" (it's really not much of one when you break it down) starts with a factual inaccuracy and goes down hill from there. This was a very sloppy video.
I am a retired counselor and have been on earth for more than a while. I have never seen an open relationship work.
Jealousy.
this woman is so so funny....a joy to listen to ...outside of her pragmatic viewpoints which is refreshing to hear ...thank you
As a biologist and a monogamous person I think it's totally okay for a person to be in an open or polyamorous relationship (I do not know the difference between them but I was curious and I will research about it) AS LONG AS he (or she) is doing this because he is genuinely curious and interested in this type of relationship and not because he thinks that's the only way he will he be able to stay with the person for whom he is interested or because he thinks that only then he'll be able to find/stay with someone.
This is the first video of yours that I've watched and I wanted to say I really enjoyed it. Happily subscribed.
As strongly as you feel about spending fifty years with the same person, the divorce rate would indicate that sixty persent of our population doesn't feel the same way.
Monogamy started when we started being tied to a piece of farmland, which was just a moment ago on our evolutionary timeline. As hunters and gatherers on the move we could change partners often, the father was still nearby.
Now as city dwellers, we are on the move again. We swing, we have open relationships, but mostly we divorce multiple times and get new partners.
As for time, we got a babysitter.
Teri Thomas marriage is for the benefit of kids. People who divorce are just being selfish and should never have wed in the first place. Even if people are in love and want to spend 50 together, I think they should avoid marriage unless they are planning on having kids.
You the best exemple of a fighting woman and mom
Respectfully, an open relationship does not necessarily mean you sleep with tons of people or that you do not have a deep relationship with them. It also is not as tiring as you imagine it. The best explain I cannot think of off the top of my head is only having one child then deciding to have another. Your love and time is not limited. Secondly, I often hear of couples opening up the relationship because one needs/wants more time and the other does not have it.
I am not saying I am on board with the idea. I just want to clarify open does not eqaul many partners or meaningless/shallow relationships.
p.s. I LOVE your videos
I've dated polyamorous people, and their little club of who was "in" was charming. They were warm, communicative, and pretty clear about what they did and didn't want. But - as a serial monogamous female I always felt they were skirting the depths, never really diving into the pool, preferring to play with each wave as it came to the shore. Additionally, I agree that the standard structure contains enough challenges to last a lifetime. I'm not complicated enough for the polyamorous or open lifestyle. My friends can do what they want, and while it may feel to me as though they have stopped at a certain stage of development (let's call it "experimentation,") - we all stop somewhere.
JanCarol11- I swear, if you didn’t just take this out of a book...
You need to be a writer! I just read that twice because it was written so well. Thank you.
direct observation! I'm working on the writing, thank you!
This is s very kind way of putting it.
I definitely understand your point of view and, for the most part, agree. However, the notion that you can only give 100% to one partner is... fundamentally flawed. If that were the case, then how can you be emotionally available to more than one child at a time? Or even ONE child since you have your partner to think about. If we, as a species, were incapable of loving and caring for others on a deep emotional level then how do we have tight knit families and communities. If we're that incapable then how are we able to care about the well being of our neighbors and other cultures?
Exhausting as it may be, I don't think it's impossible to have a fulfilling, meaningful love life outside of a monogamous relationship, regardless of the fact that I may not be able to pull it off.
I grew up in a happy, loving home. I have seen my parents to be 💯 devoted to each other. So I expected the same for myself but then the current dating scenario made me realise how wrong I am. I am a traditionalist and I identify myself as a serial monogamist but I cannot find people who are looking for the same thing. So yeah I am single and maybe I’ll die alone because polyamory is just against my nature
"The Ethical Slut" is a really good book on polyamory and open relationships. I think everyone should do what works for them 😁.
i understand you don't get how to give to more than one relationship at a time, it IS exhausting. But being a person with so much energy for other people, like me, you sometimes can't get all you need or want from one single person, and like the variety of having many options in the form of many different relationships, to get what they want out of a single relationship. more relationships, more variety. i like not having to put on any one person, all my effort, all my wants or needs. i like to spread it around. you also have the chance to become different forms of yourself inside those relationships, as everyones chemistry with you will be different, and bring out different sides of you. One person may be better to talk serious subjects with, while another person is better to cuddle with, silently. (an opposing viewpoint, thanks for listening )
A man with more than one wife is by definition insane.
I think one assumption that you make that isn't true for everyone is that you must awfully available to all partners, and they must be fully available to you. This isn't always true in poly relationships. You may have one person you live with, cook with, have sex with, raise kids with. Another person you may have deep intellectual conversations with, watch anime with, and have sex with. Another you may go camping with once a year and have wild sex with. Poly is acknowledging that it is impossible for one person to fulfill us spiritually, mentally, emotionally, and physically, and embracing the fact that we can divide those needs between multiple people. Healthy monogamy acknowledges the same thing, but instead you find other ways to cover up those holes that your partner can't fill. Sometimes that is through friends and hobbies, sometimes that is through giving up on some of those things and choosing to not be 100% fulfilled, sometimes that is through having multiple monogamous relationships throughout a lifetime. I believe both systems can work fine as long as everyone communicates, and you should be able to go between the systems depending on your needs at the time. sincerely, a person in a monogamous relationship who has several poly friends and family.
I'd be interested to hear your views on Asexuality - on those, men and women, who have no desire for sex. Also, those asexuals who choose to have open/polyamorous relationships.
^^^
Most asexual men have low testosterone. A lot of other asexual people have had traumatic sexual experiences. Then of course some are just wired different but it doesn't matter they won't have kids with this defect.
medicinally sorry, but as an asexual myself, and with my experiences with other asexuals, I can honestly inform you that that is a load of rubbish.
I have personally had no negative sexual experiences (still a virgin in my mid 30s with no desire or intention of having that changed), nor have I suffered any sexual (or indeed any physical) abuse in my life. No other asexuals I have had the pleasure to know have ever suffered sexual abuse, and their bodies (like mine) are perfectly capable of the usual biological responses to sexual activity (if they so choose to engage in any despite their lack of sexual desire).
I was simply curious to hear her take on it, as I am sure she takes time to research topics before speaking about them.
I should also add my hormone levels are perfectly normal, as are those of others who have had their levels checked that I have asked and read posts from in the past.
I hate the words “making things work”.
Sorry, it just makes me think of abusive relationships.
So refreshing to hear somebody carefully build an argument and give attention to both points of view. This is amazing. I would so love you to do something similar on pronouns and gender identity.