Hey everyone! Due to popular demand, I made a simple playlist of all "knock-off / scam" episodes of Krazy Ken's Tech Talk. Enjoy! More to come: bit.ly/clan3o1EdZ2
Honestly, if they just sold the hardware and the tools to do a Hackintosh WITHOUT a Mac OS copy, they could probably sell their machines legally. It would mean having the user find a legal copy of Mac OS, but OpenCore Computers would (most likely) not get sued into the ground by Apple.
I agree with you. Although Apple do purposely make it difficult for someone without a Mac (or a Hackintosh) to download a legal copy of MacOS, so that's a problem for OpenCore's customers. But OpenCore should be able to advertise "Hackintosh-compatible" PCs, stipulate that the customer must provide the copy of MacOS, and I suspect they would be in the clear. A separate issue is OpenCore appear to be using Apple's trademark logo in their web site advertising, which is at the very least legally dubious.
On further thought, advertising a PC as "Hackintosh-compatible" is open to interpretation. But it's probably fine for OpenCore to explicitly advertise their PC can run MacOS Catalina as long as the customer provides the copy of the OS.
My thoughts exactly. Building "Hackintosh-compatible" computers is not a bad idea at all. If it's a specific combination of parts verified to work flawlessly with MacOS using a simple, foolproof method of installing it (i.e. a USB key pre-loaded with the necessary kexts and/or a downloadable installer like MultiBeast but multiplatform), it would be surely a less of a thorn in the eye of Apple.
@@zoomosis Though a little tool called GibMacOS by corpnewt allows you to create a bootable USB drive with the MacOS recovery on it. Presuming your EFI is good enough to have ethernet up and running, you can install MacOS like you booted into internet recovery on a real mac :) Though I gotta admit, getting your hands on a MacOS copy was much harder a few years back
No, we destroyed history because it’s has bad parts and may make people upset, so it’s in the best interest to pretend it never happened, cuz... that’s a wonderful idea
I recently upgraded my hackintosh from Mojave to Catalina, and switched from Clover to OpenCore (the bootloader...). Despite the hardware selection being a “golden build” Clover was so brittle I’d given up on BIOS/UEFI updates, Mojave point release updates, and basically anything else except daily use. OC was so much easier than Clover/Unibeast/Multibeast/etc in every way it almost seemed like there must be more to it. OC failed to boot just once during the installation, only because I messed up and missed a step in the instructions. More than that, the OC docs are extremely thorough and the “Dortania” guide is excellent. It’s well organized and well written, making it easy to follow. Lastly, the OC docs have far less of a “if you don’t get it, FU noob” vibe than what I got out of the maddening scavenger hunt tmac documentation on Clover. IMHO, OpenCore (again, the bootloader) is without question the way to go. I hope the asshats selling these clones don’t somehow ruin the bootloader for us by getting it caught in the crossfire.
Dortania guide is better than their own PDF one even though the PDF looks more advanced a common person wouldn't be able to do it with the Dortania guide it can be even easier than to install Clover(if you consider the most likely post install problems)
2wheelphoto thing is that they wouldn’t do that. The reason the Mac Pro costs what it does is so apple can absorb some of the money of people who decide to buy a paste spec model and then upgrade it with non-apple hardware. That, and they’re trying to keep up the illusion of being a luxury brand when they’re squarely a consumer electronics company now. If they did that, then it’d probably to be about equal to any consumer optiplex or ideastation computer, but cost three times as much.
I really liked how Ken went to a lot of effort to attribute and give credit to other content creators, well done. Too many vloggers just roll in whatever they can legally grab without giving enough credit.
I'm watching this on a Gigabyte Brix I got in a garage sale for $120. It runs Mojave. Extremely straightforward installation, only had to change a few settings for audio to work, everything else out of the box. Why MacOS? Because I'm not familiar with it, and people ask me a lot about it so I decided to get something to be able to test stuff on it. Fun fact: I tried to run this machine with Win10 as well, it scored about 542 points in Cinebench R20 which is fine for an i5 6200U system, but it scores 728 running Mojave. The whole thing is a fraction of the size of a Mac Mini, I'm quite impressed with it, I'm even thinking getting a new 10th gen Core i7 Brix and install Catalina on that.
@@jermsbestfriend9296 they all are part of linux.. It's just that open linux doesn't get the support from software companies it deserve cus less money is involved.. If world was fair mac and windows will be out of business..
You know what the thing is? Steve Jobs never shut the door on clones, he said literally they didn’t wanna pay the price. I always wondered, if you’d ask them, "name a price" today, what would they say. Jobs was famously about to reach a deal to get OSX running on Sony Vaio Laptops and then Sony chickened... strange history.
It's important to remeber how small the Mac clone business was when they were available. Certainty weren't being sold in any stores close to where I was living at the time. Yet, there were a few computer stores in the surrounding area that sold IBM compatible machines.
@@DyceFreak its not piracy when you buy something for cheap, people still cry for that DOS after all those years, there's even analysis on assembly of various DOS clones, and MSDOS was totally a reimplementation, there's no evidence of it being a copy of anything else
"Remember, remember, the ninth of November. Broken glass, fire, and plot. I know of no reason, why our very own treason, should ever be forgot." -- Jan Böhmermann, "Be Deutsch!"
OpenCore Computer is selling (questionably legal) Hackintoshes-just like what Psystar did, before Apple shut them down. But maybe things will be different this time? I have an update (which I discovered after I finished the video) and I posted it at the end of this comment. SPOILER ALERT: OpenCore Computer appears to be backpedaling on their decision to sell. They released a statement on their website: opencore.computer UPDATE: It appears the statement was pulled. Weird. I’ll keep my eye on it. UPDATE 2: A viewer informed me the site is now down (as of June 15, 10:03 PM UTC-5).
Mr Jobs said that they'd lose money if they had clones. Windows started later yet received the largest share in the market with windows literally everywhere. Not only on the buildings tho
The mistake Psystar made, and that OpenCore Computer might be making, is including an installation of macOS. Just sell a PC with components known to be hackintoshable and start an unofficial whisper campaign. Why be stupid about it?
They don't even have to be quite about it. They could literally sell these as "Mac compatible" computers on thier site and advertise them as such without any legal issues as long as the software isn't pre-installed. It's veey strange that they are purposefully shooting themselves in the foot.
@@kirishima638 And that is the whole point of hackintoshing in the first place. I tried it with my old machine, failed miserably and I'm going to try again. But if you just buy a product all the fun is lost.
If they said mac compatible they may not be safe from being sued. It might be compatible now, but not in the future. It would be false advertising. It could be advertised as mac compatible version xx.xxx with updates turned off. Even then they might not be safe from legal action. Otherwise you would see mainboards listing OSX compatibility in the spec. You don't. You then can't infer that it has as no legal basis to back that claim up. Manufacturers do have Windows in the spec and many have Linux in the spec too, but not OSX. I don't see anyway round this. Let's look at this from another angle. MAC (compatable) ends up in court and as asked, how do you know that your machine is compatable. Emm we installed OSX on it and tested it extensively OR we don't know. It's a LOSE LOSE. You can't answer there is a community that hack OSX and they tell us our machine works but we personally have never tried it. How the hell would that stand up?
Also worth mentioning PowerComputing also had a license for Mac OS 8 (they were the final holdout and there is in fact a Mac OS 8 CD for PowerComputing clones), until Apple outright bought out PowerComputing, effectively signaling the end of the clone program. I own a PowerCenter Pro 180 with the factory Mac OS 8 install.
One of the biggest reasons Apple doesn't allow other vendors to ship their products with OSX: their Macs won't sell anymore because people can get the same hardware for half the price :^)
This machine has the option of upgrading it meaning it won't fall to the way side just because the hardware is outdated like the Mac Mini or MacBook Pro, as well as that the pc would have been a lot easier to repair than most apple devices because the parts would have been easier to obtain. Because of these features it is better than those devices even though it would have been more expensive.
@MrDjBigZ MSWindows? Yeah, you won't be any better off than if you were running MacOS. They each have their uses, and if you need the particular functionality of one or the other, then use that. But a vast number of people could readily use Linux for their needs.
Reminds me of another history concerning "clones", back in the day a certain company sterted selling computers, they even got a deal with a little outside company to provide an opperative system, things where OK and they became an standar on computer manufacturing. Then other groups tarted selling "clones" or "compatible computers", the software company started selling their OS to the open market, so many, many clones began to flow, even particular uses got the chance to eventually build their own personal computers (unthinkable!) The original company went down, yes, but the software company went way up, even acounting the many, many cases of users installing pirate versions of their software. The cloning of IBM's Personal Computer generated the diversity of today's PC community, with people and companies building PC's of tremendous differences in price and capabilities, want something cheap just for browsing and doing homework? Want a giantic monster to perform 2D and 3d rendering? Want a full throttled gaming rig with all the bells and whistles? You can have any of these without having to wait for a company to make it, even if your interests and requeriments are so niched and particular that no company would benefit for developing that particular PC, and that for me is called progress, or if you want to be more poetic, evolution.
They don't seem to care a lot about this. People do that since OS X Tiger, and they didn't try to hunt down hackers or something. Just releasing patches to break them. They know that Hackintoshes are a PIA. Choosing compatible hardware, searching for compatible kexts, configuring bootloader, etc. It's not something the casual PC user would do. The problem in this case is that obscure companies try to make money from PCs running stolen software.
Yet Microsoft got sued for "forcing" people in using Windows. Even having PCs come pre-installed with Windows. Meanwhile, Apple can sue you for wanting to use your custom rig to have a MacOS.....
Qardo that reminded of the time when the Get Windows 10 Free update from Microsoft was indeed a forced one. It also upgraded Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 PCs without the user’s consent. My dad’s Lenovo ThinkPad E450 (with Intel Core i7 5500u and AMD Radeon R7 M260 2GB GPU) came with Windows 7 Professional SP1 x64 as a downgrade from Windows 8.1 Pro from factory. He directly updated it to Windows 10 Anniversary Update, and (almost a year later) when he updated it to the Creators Update, it never booted. It gave us a BSOD, so he had to reinstall Windows 10 on his PC. Honestly, Windows 10 is now better compared to when it was first released in 2015, however the recent issues with the May 2020 Update made me to rethink my decision.
They are not stealing anyones copyrighted material. They give you a bare bones computer and people can install whatever they want on it. They just make it compatible with an Mac
I still wish Apple sold their OS licensed so people could install on their computers freely. I love macOS, but I don’t have enough money to get a Mac, I could work an entire year, and I would barely be able to get a MacBook Air in my country
@@dgpsf I wouldn't mind paying for expensive hardware if I could easily repair and upgrade it. But current Macs have pretty much everything on a single board (except the very unaccessible Mac Pro, I can't even buy a MB Air properly, so that computer is definitely out of reach, never gonna have that much money). The closest Apple authorized repair shop is about 300 miles away, and the nearest actual Apple Store is about 760 miles away. So Apple has become a big NOPE for me as they have been making their computer more and more unaccessible
My guess is no. I believe you can download the old Mac ROM and System 7 from Apple’s official website, but I think it’s for purely noncommercial use (i.e., running System 7 in an old school Mac emulator). To sell System 7 on actual hardware, you’d need a license from Apple. Apple discontinued the Mac Clone program, and with it, the ability to pay for a license to sell a Mac Clone with System 7. But you could try calling Apple and see how far that gets you. Good luck getting a hold of Tim Apple! (Tim Cook would laugh at the idea, but you might have better luck with him instead lol!!)
Im asuming the opencore hackintosh seller is somehow linked with the opencore bootloader devs. They use the same logo and name on their pc as well as the opencore bootloader. So I don't think its unlikely.
It's not inconceivable whoever runs the Hackintosh seller web site simply ripped off the OpenCore logo, though, and are trying to get a free ride off the brand name of the bootloader. It could also be both.
IIRC, there was a late 90s hackintosh vendor (might have been called “Extrem”) that blipped in and out of existence briefly, so it appears that this happens with startling periodicity.
@@Helladamnleet well, they do design them. And by anything I've seen, they design the most powerful arm chip there is. I sorta agree, but at the same time, I just don't see it going wrong for apple. Like by all logic, it's not good, but somehow they'll pull it off I think. We're just gonna go back to the 100% duality of days of yore. (Like powerpc)
This longtime Apple user would like to point out that the company that "just doesn't get it" is Apple. As far as Mac clones go, that failed because Apple was actively competing against them, as well as actively competing against themselves. Far too many models, along with no focused vision for the company at that point.
Psystar was an actual company. OpenCore is (to my knowledge) not a registered company. OpenCore is just filling the demand for those without a big wallet for the Mac Pro or the technical skills to build a Hackintosh. Having Bitcoin as the only payment option is probably the result of not being a registered company/recognized merchant and it also helps reduce their paper trail so it's harder to tie them to a physical entity that can be shutdown/prosecuted/sued. They're essentially the digital version of street vendors selling counterfeit handbags and sneakers, Gucci and Nike don't sue those people, the law prosecutes them, so I think an Apple lawsuit is the least of their worries.
The real dumb thing is that Mac OSX is a genuinely good OS and trying to keep it Mac exclusive is artificially limiting its appeal. Apple just don't have the corporate/geek philosophy to realise it though and never have done. They have the most user friendly Unix based operating system around and could make serious inroads into the PC market using it... but they don't get it. Never have. You are correct in referencing the old days of MacOS licensing and how it didn't work out but that was a very different thing. OSX is an x86 Unix operating system and there's no need to be licensing hardware, Apple could be entirely in the business of licensing software these days. The PC operating system market is still tough but licensing OSX would not be the same as licensing hardware/software clones in the 90s.
I guarantee that Apple has a group of people running the numbers to see the difference in profits they would make from selling you a laptop with their software vs selling a product key. And with the ridiculous costs of their machines for the spec that they are, plus with the fact that they haven't distributed their OS, they don't have a financial reason to make it open for other companies and dilute the sales of their computers.
i use wayback machine and search, opencore say " OCC Announcement:
We have taken on board community views and criticism of our ‘Hackintosh’ business model. We offer an unreserved apology to all; especially the Acidanthera OpenCore bootloader team. We chose their bootloader as we found it to be the simplest and most effective option. It was short-sighted of us to have branded our products the way that we did. We are currently changing the site content and domain, and will be offering the hardware described here previously which is fully compatible with all mainstream operating systems. We will NOT be including any macOS software. If customers wish to install macOS, they will be able to do so themselves. We will contribute to the Hackintosh community on a non-commercial basis. We have NOT accepted payment for any computers. Our new business model will not require Bitcoin payments and will instead feature a mainstream payment processor option. Thank you for your indulgence and understanding."
Remember my new Power Computing clone. I remember one of the other reasons was that originally Apple was being undercut in price/performance by the clone makers. When Steve Jobs stepped in he wanted too big a slice of the profit from the clone makers and when they told him that he was being too greedy he canceled the agreements.
This is a REALLY easy thing to fix. You just don't sell a computer with an OS. You build them so that they can have MacOS installed on them, but you don't advocate doing so. It then becomes arguable as to whether you're selling a potential hackintosh or just a computer. Choosing the hardware components capable of running MacOS is a pain in the arse, so having a company do this for you is a potential market gap.
This is really not a good thing, but I have a somewhat different perspective to bring to the table about why this isn't a good thing. Yeah, it's illegal and all, but another problem I see with selling a pre-built Hackintosh, specifically in regards to this company's supposed target (the average person) means that that person won't be able to cope well, if at all with the problems that can inherently arise when you use a Hackintosh and you don't know what you're doing. Heck, sometimes even when you know what you're doing, Hackintoshing can be completely unpredictable and/or unreliable. If or when you get a stable Hackintosh build and are able to keep it that way, it's the greatest feeling, but it usually takes hard work and excessive Hackintosh knowledge to reach that point
There is a legal way to pull this off… just sell the computers with a pre-configured EFI partition and instructions on how to install macOS. The user just had to run some commands and not to worry about OpenCore configs, kexts etc.
Intel Nuc 8 = Best Mac Mini. I built my own hackintosh using opencore and its not even that hard. Theres also no risks when doing OS Updates. It just works.
I don't mean to nitpick but "there are no risks" is stretching the truth a little, given there are risks of software breaking after an OS upgrade on actual Apple Macs. The removal of support for 32-bit binaries being a good example. But I appreciate that the Intel Nuc 8 is an easy machine to get going.
@@zoomosis hey, we don't talk about the Mojave -> Catalina update ok? xD Only the smaller updates within the versions like 15.4 to 15.5, I had no issues with.
Hi, ancient Mac and PC geek here, and here is the reason why we should make Hackintoshes. This goes back all the way to the inception of OS 10. Why, you may ask? Because much like the Next computer, they were both based on Unix clones. In the case of OS 10, it was based on NetBSD. Plenty of Linux geeks out there also know this. Your basic Android phone has the same roots as well. Apple trying to do a "Our hardware only" argument is basically the same as it was in the late 80s/early 90s systems that "Only our Apple stores can service your system, even down to such minimal terms as RAM and CPU upgrades! Or you void your warrantee! No soup for you!". They didn't even get the concept that when Sega dropped out of the hardware market, that it's cheaper and easier to be a software vendor than it is to blow the entire budget on systems that would be obsolete mere months upon release. I love Macs, they're beautiful masterpieces of industrial design, but woefully short sighted. PCs are evolving at an ever accelerating rate, and as Microsoft essentially has a monopoly, Apple should reconsider their hardware locked OS.
Oh, and for Sega, we already know how badly they started flopping in the 90s with the Saturn, then the Dreamcast. After those boondoggles, they threw up their hands and said "Okay, we're just making software from now on.". Apple might have to go the same route eventually, since all their Macs run on PC hardware. Remember back in the early days that Steve Jobs said that IBM was their worse enemy?
Why do you gwt so happy that someone wants to bring an alternative to consumers. Apple is the most anti consumer company on the planet. This is actually a good thing for the consumer.
Well, in my opinion it goes beyond the point of what hackintoshing should be about. It's not (only) a cheap "mac replacement". For some it is a statement towards Apple but for most it is educational. A bunch of people doing their research in their free time. It's unfair, to say the least, to try to make money over someone elses (free) work and it's not what hackintosh should be about. Let's be honest; a hackintosh requires lots of work and maintenance. It's not meant for the avarage Joe. What good is a computer if you can't maintain it? If you want a hackintosh just build one yourself. That way you'll also learn how it works. Besides the fact that they've just stolen someone elses name and logo, of course.
@@ComputerClan I can appreciate that perspective too, and I do not want a company that worked hard on IP to see a loss, but the argument made that what happened 25 years ago would happen again with a loss of revenue isn't necessarily true today. Apple has a strict policy on repairs, basically locks their systems down harder than anyone and so the other side of the argument is "serves them right" in the eyes of many consumers. No, Robin Hood wasn't "right" and neither is this company, but I hope we can agree that Apple is not a consumer friendly company at its base and these issues are not about a consumer experience, they're about selling over priced (and beautifully engineered) Apple hardware.
@@ComputerClan OpenCore may be doing the wrong thing here but I take issue with copyright infringement being called "theft". Apple losing a potential sale because of unauthorised copying of their OS isn't theft. And if you really believed that, you'd never run your own Hackintosh PC, or you'd call yourself a thief too, because it would be a lost sale. Though I don't think that's really the point of the video. The question should be how far OpenCore (or anyone else) are legally allowed to go in order to install MacOS on a PC they sell. Can they legally sell copies of Catalina on USB just to cover the cost of the USB? Can they only give them away for free? How is this different to getting an identical copy from a friend with a Mac? And I may be wrong but as far as I know Apple's EULA only applies to installation of the OS, not who has a copy of it, or why. Copyright infringement or theft doesn't even come into it. And that's assuming their EULA is enforceable. Conceivably in some European countries it isn't.
@@ricocremer The ridiculous thing is Apple would have a larger market share if they sold the kinds of PCs that people actually wanted at prices they could afford. Instead Apple would rather hobble their own machines and appeal to the wealthy, meaning Windows continues to dominate, and the Hackintosh movement to grow - not that the latter is a threat to Apple. Also I suspect that like most PCs, OpenCore machines are easier and cheaper to fix and upgrade than anything Apple offers. Which is another reason why Hackintosh movement exists in the first place. A Hackintosh only require work if you want to be kept up to date with the latest OS version. Not everyone wants to do that as it can introduce problems of its own even if the hardware works well. For example I have a MacBook Pro that I refuse to upgrade to Catalina because Apple removed support for 32-bit binaries. Over the years I've encountered a great deal of software that doesn't run any more on newer versions of MacOS simply because Apple have unnecessarily broken something or removed support for it. Consequently I have a few spare Hackintosh PCs running older versions of OS X (going back to Tiger) just so I can run old software should I feel the need to.
Yeah, I have mixed feelings about this video. On the one hand OpenCore just looks shady. On the other hand Apple aren't exactly struggling like they were in 1997. The PC market has changed tremendously since then, and MacOS competes with Windows 10 which is effectively free. Another difference is the Apple clones of the late '90s couldn't run any other OS. If you bought a PC from this OpenCore mob, you're not forced to run MacOS on it. You're still free to legally put Windows, Linux or even FreeBSD on it. It's not a Mac clone.
The reason Hackintoshes are kind of a grey area is because if you already own a Mac, you can download a free copy off the App Store legally. If you don’t already own a Mac, you have to essentially “pirate” the OS. I think a lot of people don’t see it as piracy because they fail to understand that Apple makes money off macOS from the hardware sales.
The Mac clone licensing program was a failure not because it was a bad idea to sell MacOS, but because they excessively restricted which OEMs were allowed or not, and they went ahead with the program only immediately before the launch of Windows 95, despite having considered the idea since the mid 80s. Naturally, people just picked up the option which already worked with their existing machines and software. Even worse, *every clone Mac was both cheaper AND faster than the official Macs* , so _of course_ Apple lost money! Simply put, Apple was too Apple to make an OEM program.
@@xerzy not you, seems to be down They might have already got takendown or they pulled it themselves out of fear due to all the attention/backlash they got.
I know this is an old vid but no one seems to have mentioned that MacOS is based on open source software (BSD) and therefore is open source, so technically speaking Apple are breaking the law if they sell it. This is why the Hackintosh community can exsist as Apple have to make their source code available. All this is thanks to Linus Torvalds and friends. Thankyou Linus
To be honest, using MacOS on standard PC hardware is a massive pain and not really worth it unless you have some Mac specific application you really really need to run and don't want to pay the Apple tax. Case in point, one of my architect clients used to run Archicad 19 on Mac. Unfortunately he found out that once he upgraded to Mojave, the application broke to the point where it was unusable. Fast forward a year or two, the application was lagging severely following some late High Sierra updates. Things like files taking over five minutes to open (Even before this, it still took a good minute to open anything). We attempted fresh installs, switching to SSDs, nothing worked. We attempted a Hackintosh install with this software but it was so unstable, we gave up. We then took one of his iMacs, made it a Windows 10 machine, installed the EXACT same version of Archicad (19) and voila, everything worked perfectly, except much quicker. Files up to 1GB could open in less than 10 seconds, responsiveness was far better and most important of all, Archicad 19 (released in 2015) works perfectly in 2022 on Windows 10, as opposed to bugging out like crazy on Mojave (released in 2018). We even tested it with Windows 11 and no issues at all. Yes they are slowly switching all their files to Archicad 24 but it is a very slow and labourious process. Either way, they have decided never to get trapped by MacOS again like this, and they are also happy with the hardware being half the price. Hackintoshes are a cute little experiment but not in tems of practicality, unless you're willing to spend half your time trying to keep it stable. Let's face it, people buy Apple stuff for the full experience. I don't know any Apple user that thinks Hackintoshes are worth it.
isn't anyone else really annoyed that they are tarnishing this awesome bootloader's name, with illegal activity? I sure as hell am, as someone who uses a hackintosh daily.
So I know the site was taken down, but if they had started out differently, they wouldn't have been shut down. Instead of installing macOS for you, they should sell an OpenCore Compatible computer and install the bootloader itself, then give you a link to the page of the OpenCore Guide to download macOS (and include a _fast_ USB drive with the computer).
Actually, I have what I call a "HackintoshMacintosh". It's a mid-2010 MacBook Pro running MacOS 10.15 (Catalina), but was supposed to only support up through 10.13 (High Sierra). So I *AM* running MacOS on legitimate Apple Macintosh hardware, just not the version they think I should.
Building a Hackintosh is more of a hobby. It’s tricky to get everything working. Now with so much integration between Apple devices via proprietary features like AirDrop and iCloud functions I wouldn’t consider Hackintosh all that viable for daily use not if you want the current “experience” which is pretty good tbh. For a hobby or project it’s really cool though.
I think the best thing for open computers to do is sell bare bones computers with windows/Linux/non Mac hardware that so happens to be compatible with Mac OS and plead ignirence to the fact that people are using them as Macs, with the compatibility information as a customer question and answer from “externally” as I’m sure that is likely covered under that bit of law that gives website providers some level of immunity over what people post to the site. they already seem to be far under the table so what is going a little further under it.
I think stopping hackintoshes was one of the reasons they went to ARM processors from X86/X64, and these people should just sell a hackintosh fully made and tested but sell it without the OS and let the customer figure out how to get the OS, honestly I prefer Windows it does everything I need and more reliably than Linux, or OSX, I have tried hackintoshing in the past as well as owning a legit mac but nothing ever replaced Windows for a desktop/laptop for me, and that is what I am sticking with.
Yeah, this is a very niche interest and even if that isn't a scam, i think their sales would numbered. However, i do think that everyone interest on macOS now has grown much compared to back then. Now a lot of Mac user that stayed on Apple products because they can't move on from Apple ecosystem, so Apple might've got different results if they're trying to sell macOS license to PC. I love Apple's software, especially how they refine the interface and making it user-friendly, but i really hate their hardware because of its lack of upgradability yet its specs are really average to sub-par for its price, which is the reason why i installed Hackintosh. I only wanted their software, not their hardware.
Oh blimey don’t remind us of the Scully Era, I bought a Clone by Power Computing, it had a faster processor, more RAM and a faster bus performance, better CD Drive, much higher capacity and spec hard drive than the parallel Apple model at a massively lower price. It was ugly but effective and upgradeable, it lasted until the proper ‘futuristic’ G3s (not the first ones which used existing Apple Cream cases) were released.
This argument has been over since Apple removed the headphone jack from the iPhone and Apple lost the thread entirely. You CANNOT spec a Mac at ANY price that can't be beaten by a PC at nearly HALF the cost and you can't get an NVIDIA card from the factory at any amount of money because Apple and NVIDIA are feuding... Apple has become a premium brand like Beats or Gucci; all money, zero substantive added value. Because Apple prices their stuff in the stratosphere, they can't break 14% desktop/laptop or 30-35% mobile market share, and that's just in the US. In the rest of the world, Apple doesn't have the same hold on the mobiles market, where Android devices enjoy an 85-88% market share BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN AFFORD THEM!! (And no, I am NOT arguing validity for monopolies, so don't @ me.) You want to run their OS, you have to buy their hardware, so bad luck on you for paying $2500 for $1500 bucks worth of laptop parts. If that wasn't already bad enough, due to the cult-like Apple phanboi community's unwavering devotion, resale values on older Apple gear are insane (not to mention what Apple charges for a dirt simple RAM upgrade if you buy new.) And don't think you can just use some Apple gear and operate outside of Apple's influence, since Apple refuses to play nice with anyone else. If you think the Google App Store is locked down, check out how the Apple Store forces you to use approved Apple gear to, oh I don't know... listen to music or watch movies and TV. And don't even get me started about iMessage. Anything outside of Apple's control is treated like a lower-class citizen, even you if you don't toe their line. Got an iPhone and just use it as a phone? Well, if you spend any time backing it up, you'll need to buy more storage eventually... but I digress. I'm sorry if I'm not falling over myself to muster even one iota of pity for Apple. Apple's just not worth the cost and the hassle any more. If you want something that works, can be modified to your liking, I'd suggest a Windows box or to start learning Linux (it's not that hard.) Most people use online services these days, anyway. Gmail. Slack. Twitter. Trello. Notion. Spotify. You name it. Hell, even Microsoft Office is online and is dirt cheap compared to what it used to cost. So, no, I am NOT advocating piracy. You want to build a hackintosh, that's your business. Mac OS and iOS are good operating systems. I should know, I was an Apple head since 1978 until around 2013. If I had to use it today, I would not be disappointed, but if I have to buy Apple gear to do it, no sale...
Good points. I suspect a lot of Hackintosh tinkerers like myself run OS X because they like the OS, not because they have any great devotion to Apple. My main desktop PC continues to run Ubuntu. As an aside it's interesting to see Microsoft develop WSL and integrate it into Windows 10 because it finally gives Windows a CLI to rival what OS X has had for years. If you're a Terminal junkie and use a lot of UNIX tools but don't want to run Linux, WSL has now become one less reason to build a Hackintosh PC or own a real Mac.
If they really want to gray area/not illegal but still questionable this they should be selling “modification service” and shipping without OS X installed
What is more infuriating is that there's a market fr people that want a mac compatible pc... But instead, theses vendors focus on people that want it ready out of the box: non-advanced (mac) users
Even before the Mac Clones program, in the early 90s internally Apple a prototype of the MacOS working on x86 hardware, but for whatever reasons, Apple decided not to go forward with it. Seems like I read somewhere that Apple decided to go with the IBM's PowerPC rather than x86.
Apple makes and sells ready-to-go appliances that work as a whole unit. You can also add software. My favorite appliance is my Phillips shaver, it has just worked for years. The rechargeable NiMh battery is soldered in. Who asks Phillips to provide some of their proprietary IP so that people can make their own shavers using some of Phillips’ stuff?
Hey everyone! Due to popular demand, I made a simple playlist of all "knock-off / scam" episodes of Krazy Ken's Tech Talk. Enjoy! More to come: bit.ly/clan3o1EdZ2
@Pepsi :O because I just posted it : p
Hello Computer Clan
@@ComputerClan it's been 5 months and it still has like no replies, what is your explanation for that H U H?
WIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
@@ComputerClan it's been 8 months and it still has like no replies, what is your explanation for that H U H?
Honestly, if they just sold the hardware and the tools to do a Hackintosh WITHOUT a Mac OS copy, they could probably sell their machines legally. It would mean having the user find a legal copy of Mac OS, but OpenCore Computers would (most likely) not get sued into the ground by Apple.
I agree with you. Although Apple do purposely make it difficult for someone without a Mac (or a Hackintosh) to download a legal copy of MacOS, so that's a problem for OpenCore's customers. But OpenCore should be able to advertise "Hackintosh-compatible" PCs, stipulate that the customer must provide the copy of MacOS, and I suspect they would be in the clear.
A separate issue is OpenCore appear to be using Apple's trademark logo in their web site advertising, which is at the very least legally dubious.
On further thought, advertising a PC as "Hackintosh-compatible" is open to interpretation. But it's probably fine for OpenCore to explicitly advertise their PC can run MacOS Catalina as long as the customer provides the copy of the OS.
My thoughts exactly. Building "Hackintosh-compatible" computers is not a bad idea at all. If it's a specific combination of parts verified to work flawlessly with MacOS using a simple, foolproof method of installing it (i.e. a USB key pre-loaded with the necessary kexts and/or a downloadable installer like MultiBeast but multiplatform), it would be surely a less of a thorn in the eye of Apple.
@@zoomosis Though a little tool called GibMacOS by corpnewt allows you to create a bootable USB drive with the MacOS recovery on it. Presuming your EFI is good enough to have ethernet up and running, you can install MacOS like you booted into internet recovery on a real mac :)
Though I gotta admit, getting your hands on a MacOS copy was much harder a few years back
In this case there wasn’t be a problem now they are stealing a big company IP
"Does nobody fricken' learn from history?" - all historians everywhere
and historians today :)
People in 2020: What's that?
You picture matches your comment XD
No, we destroyed history because it’s has bad parts and may make people upset, so it’s in the best interest to pretend it never happened, cuz... that’s a wonderful idea
WW1 and WW2 says no, we don’t learn from history
I recently upgraded my hackintosh from Mojave to Catalina, and switched from Clover to OpenCore (the bootloader...). Despite the hardware selection being a “golden build” Clover was so brittle I’d given up on BIOS/UEFI updates, Mojave point release updates, and basically anything else except daily use.
OC was so much easier than Clover/Unibeast/Multibeast/etc in every way it almost seemed like there must be more to it. OC failed to boot just once during the installation, only because I messed up and missed a step in the instructions. More than that, the OC docs are extremely thorough and the “Dortania” guide is excellent. It’s well organized and well written, making it easy to follow.
Lastly, the OC docs have far less of a “if you don’t get it, FU noob” vibe than what I got out of the maddening scavenger hunt tmac documentation on Clover. IMHO, OpenCore (again, the bootloader) is without question the way to go. I hope the asshats selling these clones don’t somehow ruin the bootloader for us by getting it caught in the crossfire.
I agree with you whole-heartedly, Rick! They are gonna ruin it!
Unpopular opinion: uefi SUCKS.
Dortania guide is better than their own PDF one even though the PDF looks more advanced a common person wouldn't be able to do it with the Dortania guide it can be even easier than to install Clover(if you consider the most likely post install problems)
OpenCore bootloader is awesome
matt R Whats wrong with UEFI?
Maybe if OpenCore Computers wasn't including macOS, it might be OK, but by preinstalling macOS, they're painting a great big target on their backs.
2wheelphoto thing is that they wouldn’t do that. The reason the Mac Pro costs what it does is so apple can absorb some of the money of people who decide to buy a paste spec model and then upgrade it with non-apple hardware. That, and they’re trying to keep up the illusion of being a luxury brand when they’re squarely a consumer electronics company now. If they did that, then it’d probably to be about equal to any consumer optiplex or ideastation computer, but cost three times as much.
55 likes
Great video Ken! Thanks for the shout out. I can't wait to share the in-depth history behind the rise and fall of Apple's Macintosh clone program.
I saw you’re livestream :)
I really liked how Ken went to a lot of effort to attribute and give credit to other content creators, well done. Too many vloggers just roll in whatever they can legally grab without giving enough credit.
4:09 Darkmode?!
Mac OS Copland was a bit ahead of the curve. ; )
yeah. I had that theme on Mac OS 9. I'd send a link to a photo of it, but then this comment would get flagged for manual review and not show up.
No not really the theme is actually called high-tech although there was a theme for Mac OS 8 called dark platinum that was basically dark mode
so... linux and mac os is far ahead in dark mode
It's funny how every OS except Linux kind of went backwards with color customization until just a few years ago
"I get high off of other people's stupidity."
-Ken, 2020
Coco we need this as a tee shirt 😂
If I got high off stupidity, I'd be dead from an overdose on this planet!
Proceeds to have a stroke
This needs to be on merch. Imagine a mug with that.
I'm watching this on a Gigabyte Brix I got in a garage sale for $120. It runs Mojave. Extremely straightforward installation, only had to change a few settings for audio to work, everything else out of the box. Why MacOS? Because I'm not familiar with it, and people ask me a lot about it so I decided to get something to be able to test stuff on it. Fun fact: I tried to run this machine with Win10 as well, it scored about 542 points in Cinebench R20 which is fine for an i5 6200U system, but it scores 728 running Mojave. The whole thing is a fraction of the size of a Mac Mini, I'm quite impressed with it, I'm even thinking getting a new 10th gen Core i7 Brix and install Catalina on that.
"A fair price" we know what that means in apple standards
It’s called quality, you pay for it. Clueless minded followers don’t understand that, though.
@@FeeLtheHertZ no, you can have that same quality for less price
Ricardofox12 We're talking about the Steve Jobs era, not the current year.
@@FeeLtheHertZ
4k for a computer?
ios is stolen software. Mac has no rights. They suck.
@@jermsbestfriend9296 they all are part of linux..
It's just that open linux doesn't get the support from software companies it deserve cus less money is involved..
If world was fair mac and windows will be out of business..
I love how you made 2009 feel like the 30's haha, it really does seem like a lifetime ago
I mean i was born in 2009 so it is kinda true
You know what the thing is? Steve Jobs never shut the door on clones, he said literally they didn’t wanna pay the price. I always wondered, if you’d ask them, "name a price" today, what would they say. Jobs was famously about to reach a deal to get OSX running on Sony Vaio Laptops and then Sony chickened... strange history.
It's important to remeber how small the Mac clone business was when they were available. Certainty weren't being sold in any stores close to where I was living at the time. Yet, there were a few computer stores in the surrounding area that sold IBM compatible machines.
If you forget about history you will repeat it...
The history of computing is full of piracy, Bill Gates and Steve Jobs are simply legitimized O.G.'s.
@@DyceFreak its not piracy when you buy something for cheap, people still cry for that DOS after all those years, there's even analysis on assembly of various DOS clones, and MSDOS was totally a reimplementation, there's no evidence of it being a copy of anything else
"Remember, remember, the ninth of November. Broken glass, fire, and plot. I know of no reason, why our very own treason, should ever be forgot." -- Jan Böhmermann, "Be Deutsch!"
What is history?
OpenCore Computer is selling (questionably legal) Hackintoshes-just like what Psystar did, before Apple shut them down. But maybe things will be different this time? I have an update (which I discovered after I finished the video) and I posted it at the end of this comment. SPOILER ALERT:
OpenCore Computer appears to be backpedaling on their decision to sell. They released a statement on their website: opencore.computer
UPDATE: It appears the statement was pulled. Weird. I’ll keep my eye on it.
UPDATE 2: A viewer informed me the site is now down (as of June 15, 10:03 PM UTC-5).
Oof
Yeah. I can't see the statement from them.
Statement? What statement??
Hi Ken! You're the best yter ever!
There's no statement (anymore), you can still buy the things...
Mr Jobs said that they'd lose money if they had clones.
Windows started later yet received the largest share in the market with windows literally everywhere. Not only on the buildings tho
I think the biggest difference is Microsoft only ever did software when they started with Windows. Apple was always Hardware and Software.
Did my boy just refer to the mega-low-dawn as a meg-goal-a-den
Yeah, that threw me too. 🤣
The mistake Psystar made, and that OpenCore Computer might be making, is including an installation of macOS. Just sell a PC with components known to be hackintoshable and start an unofficial whisper campaign. Why be stupid about it?
They don't even have to be quite about it. They could literally sell these as "Mac compatible" computers on thier site and advertise them as such without any legal issues as long as the software isn't pre-installed. It's veey strange that they are purposefully shooting themselves in the foot.
Because you could just buy the same parts yourself for less.
@@kirishima638 And that is the whole point of hackintoshing in the first place. I tried it with my old machine, failed miserably and I'm going to try again. But if you just buy a product all the fun is lost.
@@kirishima638 That's why I want the Exact specs so I can build my own copy of their copy …!
If they said mac compatible they may not be safe from being sued. It might be compatible now, but not in the future. It would be false advertising. It could be advertised as mac compatible version xx.xxx with updates turned off. Even then they might not be safe from legal action. Otherwise you would see mainboards listing OSX compatibility in the spec. You don't. You then can't infer that it has as no legal basis to back that claim up. Manufacturers do have Windows in the spec and many have Linux in the spec too, but not OSX. I don't see anyway round this. Let's look at this from another angle. MAC (compatable) ends up in court and as asked, how do you know that your machine is compatable. Emm we installed OSX on it and tested it extensively OR we don't know. It's a LOSE LOSE. You can't answer there is a community that hack OSX and they tell us our machine works but we personally have never tried it. How the hell would that stand up?
Thank you for making this. Apple doesn't seem to care about the hackintosh community doing what we do as long as we don't profit from Mac os
Also worth mentioning PowerComputing also had a license for Mac OS 8 (they were the final holdout and there is in fact a Mac OS 8 CD for PowerComputing clones), until Apple outright bought out PowerComputing, effectively signaling the end of the clone program.
I own a PowerCenter Pro 180 with the factory Mac OS 8 install.
One of the biggest reasons Apple doesn't allow other vendors to ship their products with OSX: their Macs won't sell anymore because people can get the same hardware for half the price :^)
This should be the pinned comment.
"A fair percentage"
Percentage: 90%
They should've marketed it as OpenCore Ready Windows Computers*
Cant sell it for primo if they put windows.
This cost significantly more than just buying a mac mini or macbook pro.
This machine has the option of upgrading it meaning it won't fall to the way side just because the hardware is outdated like the Mac Mini or MacBook Pro, as well as that the pc would have been a lot easier to repair than most apple devices because the parts would have been easier to obtain. Because of these features it is better than those devices even though it would have been more expensive.
@MrDjBigZ MSWindows? Yeah, you won't be any better off than if you were running MacOS. They each have their uses, and if you need the particular functionality of one or the other, then use that. But a vast number of people could readily use Linux for their needs.
Nicely done, guys :)
Thank you : )
2 reply
Third reply.
(Just messin' with the person above me.)
4th comment
5th reply. (messing with everyone)
Reminds me of another history concerning "clones", back in the day a certain company sterted selling computers, they even got a deal with a little outside company to provide an opperative system, things where OK and they became an standar on computer manufacturing.
Then other groups tarted selling "clones" or "compatible computers", the software company started selling their OS to the open market, so many, many clones began to flow, even particular uses got the chance to eventually build their own personal computers (unthinkable!)
The original company went down, yes, but the software company went way up, even acounting the many, many cases of users installing pirate versions of their software.
The cloning of IBM's Personal Computer generated the diversity of today's PC community, with people and companies building PC's of tremendous differences in price and capabilities, want something cheap just for browsing and doing homework? Want a giantic monster to perform 2D and 3d rendering? Want a full throttled gaming rig with all the bells and whistles? You can have any of these without having to wait for a company to make it, even if your interests and requeriments are so niched and particular that no company would benefit for developing that particular PC, and that for me is called progress, or if you want to be more poetic, evolution.
Installing macOS on a PC is already a violation to Apple’s end-user license agreement, but this one takes it to the next level.
So long old friend.
They don't seem to care a lot about this. People do that since OS X Tiger, and they didn't try to hunt down hackers or something. Just releasing patches to break them. They know that Hackintoshes are a PIA. Choosing compatible hardware, searching for compatible kexts, configuring bootloader, etc. It's not something the casual PC user would do. The problem in this case is that obscure companies try to make money from PCs running stolen software.
@@comicsanz97 that's true. I would rather hackintosh a PC in my own.
Yet Microsoft got sued for "forcing" people in using Windows. Even having PCs come pre-installed with Windows.
Meanwhile, Apple can sue you for wanting to use your custom rig to have a MacOS.....
Qardo that reminded of the time when the Get Windows 10 Free update from Microsoft was indeed a forced one. It also upgraded Windows 7 and Windows 8.1 PCs without the user’s consent. My dad’s Lenovo ThinkPad E450 (with Intel Core i7 5500u and AMD Radeon R7 M260 2GB GPU) came with Windows 7 Professional SP1 x64 as a downgrade from Windows 8.1 Pro from factory. He directly updated it to Windows 10 Anniversary Update, and (almost a year later) when he updated it to the Creators Update, it never booted. It gave us a BSOD, so he had to reinstall Windows 10 on his PC. Honestly, Windows 10 is now better compared to when it was first released in 2015, however the recent issues with the May 2020 Update made me to rethink my decision.
They are not stealing anyones copyrighted material. They give you a bare bones computer and people can install whatever they want on it. They just make it compatible with an Mac
I still wish Apple sold their OS licensed so people could install on their computers freely. I love macOS, but I don’t have enough money to get a Mac, I could work an entire year, and I would barely be able to get a MacBook Air in my country
@@dgpsf I wouldn't mind paying for expensive hardware if I could easily repair and upgrade it. But current Macs have pretty much everything on a single board (except the very unaccessible Mac Pro, I can't even buy a MB Air properly, so that computer is definitely out of reach, never gonna have that much money). The closest Apple authorized repair shop is about 300 miles away, and the nearest actual Apple Store is about 760 miles away. So Apple has become a big NOPE for me as they have been making their computer more and more unaccessible
@@WolfiiDog13, PCs have everything on a single board as well. Its called a mainboard.
@@WolfiiDog13, but you have enough money to buy a PC? That doesn't add up.
@@dgpsf, PC laptops have bad thermals as well. Asus ROG, Dell XPS 15 9570, HP spectre x360, etc.. the list goes on and on, all thermal throttle.
@@dgpsf, Where's your criticism of PC laptop manufacturers? #Bias #Hate
TBH, with how ubiquitous Apple is today, they'd turn a profit if they started selling OSX licenses, especially if they undercut Windows.
Could you legally sell Mac Clones with System 7 today? I know that would be silly, but could you do it?
My guess is no. I believe you can download the old Mac ROM and System 7 from Apple’s official website, but I think it’s for purely noncommercial use (i.e., running System 7 in an old school Mac emulator). To sell System 7 on actual hardware, you’d need a license from Apple. Apple discontinued the Mac Clone program, and with it, the ability to pay for a license to sell a Mac Clone with System 7. But you could try calling Apple and see how far that gets you. Good luck getting a hold of Tim Apple! (Tim Cook would laugh at the idea, but you might have better luck with him instead lol!!)
I love the sound where the computer face guy appears. I think it sounds like a futuristic super computer booting up.
Wow, history repeats itself
It suuuuure does…
Im asuming the opencore hackintosh seller is somehow linked with the opencore bootloader devs. They use the same logo and name on their pc as well as the opencore bootloader. So I don't think its unlikely.
It's not inconceivable whoever runs the Hackintosh seller web site simply ripped off the OpenCore logo, though, and are trying to get a free ride off the brand name of the bootloader. It could also be both.
Nope. Acidantera team(lead team of OC bootloader publicly stated they're ripping off oc's logo.
4:11 Dark Mode pre OSX... of course.
Problem with Copland was it was *too* ambitious. Steve Jobs prevented the inclusion of more themes then Platinum was due to stability.
Madd the Sane i guess I have higher expectations than even Steve Jobs...
IIRC, there was a late 90s hackintosh vendor (might have been called “Extrem”) that blipped in and out of existence briefly, so it appears that this happens with startling periodicity.
apple: noooo u can't sell pc with macos!!!
opencore: hackintosh go brrrrrrrrr
@JustAdam ya that's sucky stealing the name
It'd be quite nice to get some cheaper macs. Maybe more people would actually consider them if the prices weren't mental.
The cheapest Mac is 599
When I heard about this I was just like.
"Oh cool they're going to get sued."
Aw, this just made me realize hackintoshes are going to be a thing of the past when they fully switch to their own arm silicon.
Yep, and it's going to hurt them in the end. They aren't chip manufactures and it will show.
@@Helladamnleet well, they do design them. And by anything I've seen, they design the most powerful arm chip there is. I sorta agree, but at the same time, I just don't see it going wrong for apple. Like by all logic, it's not good, but somehow they'll pull it off I think. We're just gonna go back to the 100% duality of days of yore. (Like powerpc)
This longtime Apple user would like to point out that the company that "just doesn't get it" is Apple.
As far as Mac clones go, that failed because Apple was actively competing against them, as well as actively competing against themselves. Far too many models, along with no focused vision for the company at that point.
Lawsuit time.
I heard Apple has thousands of lawyers, big yikes for me
Psystar was an actual company. OpenCore is (to my knowledge) not a registered company. OpenCore is just filling the demand for those without a big wallet for the Mac Pro or the technical skills to build a Hackintosh. Having Bitcoin as the only payment option is probably the result of not being a registered company/recognized merchant and it also helps reduce their paper trail so it's harder to tie them to a physical entity that can be shutdown/prosecuted/sued. They're essentially the digital version of street vendors selling counterfeit handbags and sneakers, Gucci and Nike don't sue those people, the law prosecutes them, so I think an Apple lawsuit is the least of their worries.
The real dumb thing is that Mac OSX is a genuinely good OS and trying to keep it Mac exclusive is artificially limiting its appeal. Apple just don't have the corporate/geek philosophy to realise it though and never have done.
They have the most user friendly Unix based operating system around and could make serious inroads into the PC market using it... but they don't get it. Never have.
You are correct in referencing the old days of MacOS licensing and how it didn't work out but that was a very different thing. OSX is an x86 Unix operating system and there's no need to be licensing hardware, Apple could be entirely in the business of licensing software these days. The PC operating system market is still tough but licensing OSX would not be the same as licensing hardware/software clones in the 90s.
I guarantee that Apple has a group of people running the numbers to see the difference in profits they would make from selling you a laptop with their software vs selling a product key. And with the ridiculous costs of their machines for the spec that they are, plus with the fact that they haven't distributed their OS, they don't have a financial reason to make it open for other companies and dilute the sales of their computers.
They just need to avoid selling the os as it seems. And x86 pc is an x86 pc regardless of what it was tested with.
Very Informative video 📼 also I love The Computer Chronicles Windows 3.1 segment!! I used to watch that in my good ole days.
i use wayback machine and search, opencore say "
OCC Announcement:
We have taken on board community views and criticism of our ‘Hackintosh’ business model. We offer an unreserved apology to all; especially the Acidanthera OpenCore bootloader team. We chose their bootloader as we found it to be the simplest and most effective option. It was short-sighted of us to have branded our products the way that we did.
We are currently changing the site content and domain, and will be offering the hardware described here previously which is fully compatible with all mainstream operating systems. We will NOT be including any macOS software. If customers wish to install macOS, they will be able to do so themselves. We will contribute to the Hackintosh community on a non-commercial basis.
We have NOT accepted payment for any computers. Our new business model will not require Bitcoin payments and will instead feature a mainstream payment processor option.
Thank you for your indulgence and understanding."
I’ve tried OpenCore, and it’s not easy to configure.
Remember my new Power Computing clone. I remember one of the other reasons was that originally Apple was being undercut in price/performance by the clone makers. When Steve Jobs stepped in he wanted too big a slice of the profit from the clone makers and when they told him that he was being too greedy he canceled the agreements.
Bitcoin has always seemed scammy to me, what with WannaCry and Escobar
I honestly thought you were going to start the video with saying they did it again... And I bought one!
Nice. catched up 5 mins after upload
This is a REALLY easy thing to fix. You just don't sell a computer with an OS. You build them so that they can have MacOS installed on them, but you don't advocate doing so. It then becomes arguable as to whether you're selling a potential hackintosh or just a computer.
Choosing the hardware components capable of running MacOS is a pain in the arse, so having a company do this for you is a potential market gap.
It was shut down not long ago i checked yesterday still up , today, it was down
The most impressive thing in this episode was how Ken pronounced Megalodon lol
This is really not a good thing, but I have a somewhat different perspective to bring to the table about why this isn't a good thing. Yeah, it's illegal and all, but another problem I see with selling a pre-built Hackintosh, specifically in regards to this company's supposed target (the average person) means that that person won't be able to cope well, if at all with the problems that can inherently arise when you use a Hackintosh and you don't know what you're doing. Heck, sometimes even when you know what you're doing, Hackintoshing can be completely unpredictable and/or unreliable. If or when you get a stable Hackintosh build and are able to keep it that way, it's the greatest feeling, but it usually takes hard work and excessive Hackintosh knowledge to reach that point
There is a legal way to pull this off… just sell the computers with a pre-configured EFI partition and instructions on how to install macOS. The user just had to run some commands and not to worry about OpenCore configs, kexts etc.
Intel Nuc 8 = Best Mac Mini.
I built my own hackintosh using opencore and its not even that hard.
Theres also no risks when doing OS Updates. It just works.
I don't mean to nitpick but "there are no risks" is stretching the truth a little, given there are risks of software breaking after an OS upgrade on actual Apple Macs. The removal of support for 32-bit binaries being a good example. But I appreciate that the Intel Nuc 8 is an easy machine to get going.
apple wants to know your Location
@@zoomosis the 32 bit support removed is why apple are shit company
@@zoomosis hey, we don't talk about the Mojave -> Catalina update ok? xD
Only the smaller updates within the versions like 15.4 to 15.5, I had no issues with.
Good luck with these when Apple Produces their own CPU's for their Macintosh line
when your so early that there are only 26 likes and 0 dislikes
*you're
Gratz
Hi, ancient Mac and PC geek here, and here is the reason why we should make Hackintoshes. This goes back all the way to the inception of OS 10. Why, you may ask? Because much like the Next computer, they were both based on Unix clones. In the case of OS 10, it was based on NetBSD. Plenty of Linux geeks out there also know this. Your basic Android phone has the same roots as well. Apple trying to do a "Our hardware only" argument is basically the same as it was in the late 80s/early 90s systems that "Only our Apple stores can service your system, even down to such minimal terms as RAM and CPU upgrades! Or you void your warrantee! No soup for you!".
They didn't even get the concept that when Sega dropped out of the hardware market, that it's cheaper and easier to be a software vendor than it is to blow the entire budget on systems that would be obsolete mere months upon release. I love Macs, they're beautiful masterpieces of industrial design, but woefully short sighted. PCs are evolving at an ever accelerating rate, and as Microsoft essentially has a monopoly, Apple should reconsider their hardware locked OS.
Oh, and for Sega, we already know how badly they started flopping in the 90s with the Saturn, then the Dreamcast. After those boondoggles, they threw up their hands and said "Okay, we're just making software from now on.". Apple might have to go the same route eventually, since all their Macs run on PC hardware. Remember back in the early days that Steve Jobs said that IBM was their worse enemy?
This should be as fast as the iMac pro lol
"Meg-go-low-den" just irks me.
Why do you gwt so happy that someone wants to bring an alternative to consumers. Apple is the most anti consumer company on the planet. This is actually a good thing for the consumer.
This is not good. It’s theft.
Well, in my opinion it goes beyond the point of what hackintoshing should be about. It's not (only) a cheap "mac replacement". For some it is a statement towards Apple but for most it is educational. A bunch of people doing their research in their free time. It's unfair, to say the least, to try to make money over someone elses (free) work and it's not what hackintosh should be about. Let's be honest; a hackintosh requires lots of work and maintenance. It's not meant for the avarage Joe. What good is a computer if you can't maintain it? If you want a hackintosh just build one yourself. That way you'll also learn how it works.
Besides the fact that they've just stolen someone elses name and logo, of course.
@@ComputerClan I can appreciate that perspective too, and I do not want a company that worked hard on IP to see a loss, but the argument made that what happened 25 years ago would happen again with a loss of revenue isn't necessarily true today.
Apple has a strict policy on repairs, basically locks their systems down harder than anyone and so the other side of the argument is "serves them right" in the eyes of many consumers.
No, Robin Hood wasn't "right" and neither is this company, but I hope we can agree that Apple is not a consumer friendly company at its base and these issues are not about a consumer experience, they're about selling over priced (and beautifully engineered) Apple hardware.
@@ComputerClan OpenCore may be doing the wrong thing here but I take issue with copyright infringement being called "theft". Apple losing a potential sale because of unauthorised copying of their OS isn't theft.
And if you really believed that, you'd never run your own Hackintosh PC, or you'd call yourself a thief too, because it would be a lost sale.
Though I don't think that's really the point of the video. The question should be how far OpenCore (or anyone else) are legally allowed to go in order to install MacOS on a PC they sell. Can they legally sell copies of Catalina on USB just to cover the cost of the USB? Can they only give them away for free? How is this different to getting an identical copy from a friend with a Mac? And I may be wrong but as far as I know Apple's EULA only applies to installation of the OS, not who has a copy of it, or why. Copyright infringement or theft doesn't even come into it. And that's assuming their EULA is enforceable. Conceivably in some European countries it isn't.
@@ricocremer The ridiculous thing is Apple would have a larger market share if they sold the kinds of PCs that people actually wanted at prices they could afford. Instead Apple would rather hobble their own machines and appeal to the wealthy, meaning Windows continues to dominate, and the Hackintosh movement to grow - not that the latter is a threat to Apple.
Also I suspect that like most PCs, OpenCore machines are easier and cheaper to fix and upgrade than anything Apple offers. Which is another reason why Hackintosh movement exists in the first place.
A Hackintosh only require work if you want to be kept up to date with the latest OS version. Not everyone wants to do that as it can introduce problems of its own even if the hardware works well.
For example I have a MacBook Pro that I refuse to upgrade to Catalina because Apple removed support for 32-bit binaries. Over the years I've encountered a great deal of software that doesn't run any more on newer versions of MacOS simply because Apple have unnecessarily broken something or removed support for it. Consequently I have a few spare Hackintosh PCs running older versions of OS X (going back to Tiger) just so I can run old software should I feel the need to.
Wonderful. You sure put a lot of work into this and it showed.
Thank you!
Let's white-knight for a huge billion dollar corporation! Give me a break.
Yeah, I have mixed feelings about this video. On the one hand OpenCore just looks shady. On the other hand Apple aren't exactly struggling like they were in 1997. The PC market has changed tremendously since then, and MacOS competes with Windows 10 which is effectively free.
Another difference is the Apple clones of the late '90s couldn't run any other OS. If you bought a PC from this OpenCore mob, you're not forced to run MacOS on it. You're still free to legally put Windows, Linux or even FreeBSD on it.
It's not a Mac clone.
The reason Hackintoshes are kind of a grey area is because if you already own a Mac, you can download a free copy off the App Store legally.
If you don’t already own a Mac, you have to essentially “pirate” the OS.
I think a lot of people don’t see it as piracy because they fail to understand that Apple makes money off macOS from the hardware sales.
Hello to anyone reading this, I am from the past.
Have a nice day.
Hello mr 13 minutes ago
Far better coverage than LinusTechTips; you're rockin this youtube thing man
I appreciate that. Of course, I got nothing against the LMG gang, but I do appreciate the compliment. : )
@@ComputerClan oh I do agree, I have utmost respect for LMG guys but your content is thorough and killer. ✌️
The Mac clone licensing program was a failure not because it was a bad idea to sell MacOS, but because they excessively restricted which OEMs were allowed or not, and they went ahead with the program only immediately before the launch of Windows 95, despite having considered the idea since the mid 80s. Naturally, people just picked up the option which already worked with their existing machines and software. Even worse, *every clone Mac was both cheaper AND faster than the official Macs* , so _of course_ Apple lost money!
Simply put, Apple was too Apple to make an OEM program.
BTW, is it me or is the opencore.computer website down?
@@xerzy not you, seems to be down
They might have already got takendown or they pulled it themselves out of fear due to all the attention/backlash they got.
Now that was an educational experience for me too - quite a few things I didn’t know right here! Thx for a great video!
You're welcome! Thanks for watching : )
Him: Hey everybody how you doing...
me: terrible **sobs**
Him: Really, thats great
me: . . . .
I know this is an old vid but no one seems to have mentioned that MacOS is based on open source software (BSD) and therefore is open source, so technically speaking Apple are breaking the law if they sell it.
This is why the Hackintosh community can exsist as Apple have to make their source code available.
All this is thanks to Linus Torvalds and friends.
Thankyou Linus
To be honest, using MacOS on standard PC hardware is a massive pain and not really worth it unless you have some Mac specific application you really really need to run and don't want to pay the Apple tax.
Case in point, one of my architect clients used to run Archicad 19 on Mac. Unfortunately he found out that once he upgraded to Mojave, the application broke to the point where it was unusable. Fast forward a year or two, the application was lagging severely following some late High Sierra updates. Things like files taking over five minutes to open (Even before this, it still took a good minute to open anything). We attempted fresh installs, switching to SSDs, nothing worked.
We attempted a Hackintosh install with this software but it was so unstable, we gave up.
We then took one of his iMacs, made it a Windows 10 machine, installed the EXACT same version of Archicad (19) and voila, everything worked perfectly, except much quicker. Files up to 1GB could open in less than 10 seconds, responsiveness was far better and most important of all, Archicad 19 (released in 2015) works perfectly in 2022 on Windows 10, as opposed to bugging out like crazy on Mojave (released in 2018). We even tested it with Windows 11 and no issues at all.
Yes they are slowly switching all their files to Archicad 24 but it is a very slow and labourious process. Either way, they have decided never to get trapped by MacOS again like this, and they are also happy with the hardware being half the price.
Hackintoshes are a cute little experiment but not in tems of practicality, unless you're willing to spend half your time trying to keep it stable. Let's face it, people buy Apple stuff for the full experience. I don't know any Apple user that thinks Hackintoshes are worth it.
I'm happy they exist. F Apple, people should get a nice OS for testing without paying a huge premium.
Always remember the answer to EVERY question in law is "..it depends". This is why we have courts.
Eggsackly
isn't anyone else really annoyed that they are tarnishing this awesome bootloader's name, with illegal activity? I sure as hell am, as someone who uses a hackintosh daily.
So I know the site was taken down, but if they had started out differently, they wouldn't have been shut down. Instead of installing macOS for you, they should sell an OpenCore Compatible computer and install the bootloader itself, then give you a link to the page of the OpenCore Guide to download macOS (and include a _fast_ USB drive with the computer).
Doesn't the EULA also state that you are not allowed to install it on a pc? (non-apple branded computer)
Actually, I have what I call a "HackintoshMacintosh". It's a mid-2010 MacBook Pro running MacOS 10.15 (Catalina), but was supposed to only support up through 10.13 (High Sierra). So I *AM* running MacOS on legitimate Apple Macintosh hardware, just not the version they think I should.
tried to get onto their website and it appears to be down.. they must have received a cease and desist.
Building a Hackintosh is more of a hobby. It’s tricky to get everything working. Now with so much integration between Apple devices via proprietary features like AirDrop and iCloud functions I wouldn’t consider Hackintosh all that viable for daily use not if you want the current “experience” which is pretty good tbh. For a hobby or project it’s really cool though.
I think the best thing for open computers to do is sell bare bones computers with windows/Linux/non Mac hardware that so happens to be compatible with Mac OS and plead ignirence to the fact that people are using them as Macs, with the compatibility information as a customer question and answer from “externally” as I’m sure that is likely covered under that bit of law that gives website providers some level of immunity over what people post to the site. they already seem to be far under the table so what is going a little further under it.
Dude, that newscaster impersonation was dope. You ever do voice work or acting?
Thumbs up for including a clip from The Computer Chronicles! I used to watch that every week.
I think stopping hackintoshes was one of the reasons they went to ARM processors from X86/X64, and these people should just sell a hackintosh fully made and tested but sell it without the OS and let the customer figure out how to get the OS, honestly I prefer Windows it does everything I need and more reliably than Linux, or OSX, I have tried hackintoshing in the past as well as owning a legit mac but nothing ever replaced Windows for a desktop/laptop for me, and that is what I am sticking with.
Yeah, this is a very niche interest and even if that isn't a scam, i think their sales would numbered. However, i do think that everyone interest on macOS now has grown much compared to back then. Now a lot of Mac user that stayed on Apple products because they can't move on from Apple ecosystem, so Apple might've got different results if they're trying to sell macOS license to PC. I love Apple's software, especially how they refine the interface and making it user-friendly, but i really hate their hardware because of its lack of upgradability yet its specs are really average to sub-par for its price, which is the reason why i installed Hackintosh. I only wanted their software, not their hardware.
Oh blimey don’t remind us of the Scully Era, I bought a Clone by Power Computing, it had a faster processor, more RAM and a faster bus performance, better CD Drive, much higher capacity and spec hard drive than the parallel Apple model at a massively lower price. It was ugly but effective and upgradeable, it lasted until the proper ‘futuristic’ G3s (not the first ones which used existing Apple Cream cases) were released.
This argument has been over since Apple removed the headphone jack from the iPhone and Apple lost the thread entirely. You CANNOT spec a Mac at ANY price that can't be beaten by a PC at nearly HALF the cost and you can't get an NVIDIA card from the factory at any amount of money because Apple and NVIDIA are feuding...
Apple has become a premium brand like Beats or Gucci; all money, zero substantive added value. Because Apple prices their stuff in the stratosphere, they can't break 14% desktop/laptop or 30-35% mobile market share, and that's just in the US. In the rest of the world, Apple doesn't have the same hold on the mobiles market, where Android devices enjoy an 85-88% market share BECAUSE PEOPLE CAN AFFORD THEM!! (And no, I am NOT arguing validity for monopolies, so don't @ me.) You want to run their OS, you have to buy their hardware, so bad luck on you for paying $2500 for $1500 bucks worth of laptop parts.
If that wasn't already bad enough, due to the cult-like Apple phanboi community's unwavering devotion, resale values on older Apple gear are insane (not to mention what Apple charges for a dirt simple RAM upgrade if you buy new.) And don't think you can just use some Apple gear and operate outside of Apple's influence, since Apple refuses to play nice with anyone else. If you think the Google App Store is locked down, check out how the Apple Store forces you to use approved Apple gear to, oh I don't know... listen to music or watch movies and TV. And don't even get me started about iMessage.
Anything outside of Apple's control is treated like a lower-class citizen, even you if you don't toe their line. Got an iPhone and just use it as a phone? Well, if you spend any time backing it up, you'll need to buy more storage eventually... but I digress.
I'm sorry if I'm not falling over myself to muster even one iota of pity for Apple. Apple's just not worth the cost and the hassle any more. If you want something that works, can be modified to your liking, I'd suggest a Windows box or to start learning Linux (it's not that hard.) Most people use online services these days, anyway. Gmail. Slack. Twitter. Trello. Notion. Spotify. You name it. Hell, even Microsoft Office is online and is dirt cheap compared to what it used to cost.
So, no, I am NOT advocating piracy. You want to build a hackintosh, that's your business. Mac OS and iOS are good operating systems. I should know, I was an Apple head since 1978 until around 2013. If I had to use it today, I would not be disappointed, but if I have to buy Apple gear to do it, no sale...
Good points.
I suspect a lot of Hackintosh tinkerers like myself run OS X because they like the OS, not because they have any great devotion to Apple. My main desktop PC continues to run Ubuntu.
As an aside it's interesting to see Microsoft develop WSL and integrate it into Windows 10 because it finally gives Windows a CLI to rival what OS X has had for years. If you're a Terminal junkie and use a lot of UNIX tools but don't want to run Linux, WSL has now become one less reason to build a Hackintosh PC or own a real Mac.
Wait. I have seen sellers on eBay selling these things
If they really want to gray area/not illegal but still questionable this they should be selling “modification service” and shipping without OS X installed
Soon, we will have to use the Rasbery Pi type ARM computer to make hackintosh...
Follow up on the website: it’s sold by huge domains ( I think ) now
Edit: huge domains and eui ( I think ) use the same for sale style
What is more infuriating is that there's a market fr people that want a mac compatible pc... But instead, theses vendors focus on people that want it ready out of the box: non-advanced (mac) users
Isn't ironic that i'm watching this video while waiting for MacOS to install on my hackintosh lol?
"Pro-Tip Don't do that"
Yeah especially to a trillion dollar company that can file a lawsuit like ordering a coffee.
I personally think that selling Mac clones are illegal, but then realized that it isn't illegal after watching this video
Even before the Mac Clones program, in the early 90s internally Apple a prototype of the MacOS working on x86 hardware, but for whatever reasons, Apple decided not to go forward with it. Seems like I read somewhere that Apple decided to go with the IBM's PowerPC rather than x86.
Apple makes and sells ready-to-go appliances that work as a whole unit. You can also add software. My favorite appliance is my Phillips shaver, it has just worked for years. The rechargeable NiMh battery is soldered in. Who asks Phillips to provide some of their proprietary IP so that people can make their own shavers using some of Phillips’ stuff?
0:14 all these 13 years all the Macs were standing on Ken's working space)))))) Ken loves Macs, why not?
Never got to a video so fast lol, and I love your channel