Buffy The Vampire Slayer 6x20 “Villians” Reaction
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- Опубликовано: 18 дек 2022
- Willow ate im sorry.
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It really hits back when Dawn comes home and finds Tara's body and she was so broken when they find her there. She stayed with Tara and didn't want to leave her alone.
It’s truly so sick, especially knowing how much Tara meant to her.
And "Bored Now" brings a whole new feeling.
Yup. Lazy writing. That line always annoyed me. Using the line from Vampire Willow to convey Dark Willow is "evil".
Except that this Willow, who on the murder of her soulmate, gave into the anger and need for revenge, absorbing all the dark magic she could, on skinning the perpetrator of said murder alive, and finding it is not enough to fill the hole that is her grief, would not "be bored". Hurt, angry, in pieces, yes. Bored? No
The evil inside her was bored of prolonging his life - she caught, said what she needed to say, caused him pain and suffering and was just done with him. It makes sense
And that interpretation is part of my issue with it. Using "the evil" inhabiting Willow absolves her of the acts committed. That is a lot less interesting storytelling wise.
It interpretation means that those in the audience who don't want to see a Willow capable of some really evil actions up to and including murder and torture by saying it wasn't her can do so. But to me that makes her character a lot less interesting if the choice is to see it as a possession of an evil entity that is doing the evil stuff.
We see throughout these episodes the effect of her absorption of evil magicks vs good magicks. Absorbing the evil spells from the books, and then the evil power from the warlock, pushed her further into rage and beyond vengeance, while absorbing the good magicks from Giles caused empathy for the suffering of others, and also allowed Xander to reach her and bring her back
@@williammcnirlan4820 its called a callback. Theyve been setting this up since Willow got powers they knew they were gonna do dark evil willow & when vamp willow a soulless evil demon has a catchphrase of course there gon a use the same catchphrase when willow goes all dark. Its not lazy writing. It would be if vamp willow never said it & there havnt been easter eggs of it. Lol they were literally setting this up that tales effort
I remember when this episode first aired - we would all like to be the bigger person like Buffy but we were all rooting for Willow!
Yessss!!!
im STILL on Willow's side.
Can we give a shoutout to the vampire in the bar who decided not to eat Warren so we could have this episode? 😁
Bless him.
Grateful to him.
I love Dark Willow too. We needed her.
5:26 You say no one knows about Tara, but Anya does. She's a vengeance demon and therefore she feels the vengeance Willow wants for her death, hence why she's trying to stop Willow from using the books. She knows what'll happen, and it's why she looks so helpless when she drains the books. She KNOWS!
Naj really said "I got a word for you: Get the hell out of here" 😂💀
LMFAO i like how you said there is gonna be "hella flies in that house and mosquitoes", because they left the door wide open for hours 😂🤣 had me dying of laughter
I remember when I was watching this episode the first time I was rooting for Willow. And found her kinda hot tbh. When she said "bored now" I screamed. That made me think of evil Vampire Willow, which a favourite.
Ahh man I remembered when this aired. The bored now call back still gives me jollies.
Who hated Dark Willow?? I loved her when it aired, and still do two decades later. Darth Willow is a vibe, and I feel it!
I was jaw dropped at the end of this episode
I never felt this storyline really sat in the ‘bury your gays’ trope. I mean, technically, yes, but I always found the trope more about making queer characters expendable, or a form of tragic punishment for a subtle subtext about their ‘depraved lifestyle’. Tara is far from expendable and her sexuality isn’t a big part of the narrative. She’s the keystone holding the group together. She counsels Buffy, looks after Dawn, and keeps Willow from going off the rails. She is also the only character who has never done anything wrong (besides one misjudged spell due to her abusive family). For me, it seems she was taken out because she symbolised the hope. But maybe I’m biased because I love this show and I’m making excuses for it. I don’t know. I’m open to opinions on this.
Just to add: I don’t excuse everything in this show. I have some big bugbears with it. The use of the term ‘spaz’ is ableist (albeit a product of its time). And it sticks out like a sore thumb these days with its completely white cast.
One test is to compare her to straight characters on the same show, like former love interests and other secondary characters that are not villains. Jenny died in a just as shocking and impactful way. So did Joyce. Cordelia, Angel, Oz, Riley, and others didn't.
But you also have to consider how many gay characters there were on TV at the time, compared to how many straight characters, and the proportional impact of each one who was killed off.
@@ihateunicorns867 god yes, I hate when Willow refers to herself as that.
I could explain exactly why Tara’s death is the literal definition of bury your gays but I won’t bother for now.
You’ll be able to read it in my ‘Grave’ recap.
@@Girl4Music Ok, thanks. I’d be interested to read that. As I said, I’m open minded on this. Buffy was the first show I remember that had gay characters where the storyline wasn’t “they’re gay”.
If anyone deserved a good flaying it was that creep Warren. I loved that so much and still to this day I love it!
After Seeing Red there is only one way the last three can go in the Season. It had been intimated all through this Season that even though Willow had sought help and was trying to curb her addiction, anything could set it off. Well her witnessing Tara's death is the catalyst for ultimate revenge and mayhem. It's now very much in the realm of Liam Neeson in Sam Raimi's brilliant film Darkman where relentless devastating revenge is sought on all who wronged him. Willow is now all powerful, and we feel will be unstoppable. Great scene in the bar when Warren tells them all he killed the slayer, and they tell him she is still alive. Little does he know it's not Buffy he has to fear. Once Rack has informed Warren that he can sense the power of the new Dark Force in the witch we know Warren will be doomed. Willow is now without any feeling or empathy, even when she draws the bullet from Buffy there is no emotion or feeling. Warren thinks he can fool Willow with Robot Warren, but when Buffy and Xander plea with Willow she says' I'm not coming back', she will get her retribution. A brilliant scene with Dawn too when she says to Buffy 'I'd do it myself if I could' as young girl and human, she has has that emotion and hatred towards Warren, a natural reaction many would feel. Xander makes a good point here in that you don't have to be a Vampire or Demon to be pure evil, saying Warren is as bad as any human 'sent to Dustville'. We see Spike seeking a similar way to Angel in 'The Trial' episode from the Angel Show, where is he seeking restoration by completing ultimate dangerous tests, but the restoration of what? The final scene of Willow placing the bullet into Warren and sealing his lips is amazing. Still we feel hatred towards him as he is still showing no remorse, a truly detestable character worse than any Demon. As Buffy, Xander and Anya witness the skinning alive of Warren they are horrified. Willow says to them 'one down' there really are 'Two To Go'. A brilliant S6 episode.
The mention to Darkman is *chef’s kiss*
That is exactly what is going on with Willow. She’s tasted blood… now there’s no stopping her from fully consuming it as her power, rage and vengeance drives her to total sociopathy.
Instead feelings and emotions will have to be forced into her to make her realize the depth of her pure animalism in wanting to eradicate anybody that ever hurt her or Tara off the face of the planet. Because that’s what it would result to. Total annihilation of her unfelt pain.
@@Girl4Music Great analysis 👏
Dark willow is so good, idk why people hate it. It's iconic. And to be fair, everything willow does in this season fits with the whole addict personality. The manipulation of the people who love you so they don't think anything is wrong, the denial of your addiction, the acceptance of it, and even losing yourself to it nearly completely. It's well done in my opinion.
It’s on par with her entire character’s arc as far as I’m concerned.
@@Girl4Music I forget who said it, but I heard an interview in which they said making Willow the "big bad" was always the plan, right from the pilot episode. You can see spikes of the potential here with her vampire self who was quite ruthless, and also the time she attacked Glory for suckin Tara's brain. The Glory scene in particular shows how Willow snapped when Tara was touched. I also know Tara was supposed to die relatively early. I think in the fourth season actually, but they kept her due to fan response and made her the reason willow went bad, or her murder the reason rather. Pretty cool in my opinion. The writes for this show were so phenomenal and often had thing planned so far out in advance. Seasons in advance even. I'm sure you know but buffys death in season 5 was foreshadowed in season 3. Crazy.
@@rainbowboyu I can believe that because I’ve written a whole ass analysis on the theme of consent in the show and specifically Willow’s relationship with it using the dialogue from Buffy and Willow’s first ever one-on-one conversation because there is so much character detail behind the lines written and how they’re delivered by Hannigan. So I very much believe that assumption.
And it was Oz that was supposed to die in Season 4 and Willow would go rogue and dark for him to avenge his death instead as they initially planned on her character staying straight and Xander turning gay because there was a lot more hints.
They saved the storyline for much later in the show: but you are right about how they initially planned to kill Tara off much earlier. Amber Benson talked about how Whedon had her come to his cabin on the set of the filming on ‘The Gift’ where he told her that they were going to kill off her character. They just kept setting it further and further back not so much because of fan response but because of fear of fan reaction but then Whedon ultimately decided “Ah, what the hell, may as well be for the Season 6 finale”.
Personally I think if they had to kill her off at all, it should have been in ‘Tabula Rasa’.
We hate it because it cost us Tara to get it :(
i know the fans were losing their minds when this first aired
"We don't kill humans" Tell that to the guy she axed on top of the RV last season.
Not bragging just making a point here. I own all the original box sets been watching since I was a child definitely one of my favorites shows of all time next to StargateSG1 and I LOVE evil dark Willow! She's 🔥🔥🔥🔥
Those saying they don't like that character obviously haven't watched Buffy season after season dozens of times. Not really true Buffy fans basically 😉
Glad you enjoyed it 😈
Justice was definitely served 🙌
willow did justice to Tara and Buffy among others
Posting my BUFFY REWATCH recap for ‘Villains’. May contain spoilers.
So we’ve finally got to the 3-episodic finale of Season 6 and the major theme this time around is vengeance. I have spent so much time going through this theme and the events of these 3 final episodes in my head because I wanted to explain something that I feel is very important but wanted to articulate well so it doesn’t come across as condescending in any way. And once again - I am referencing ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ because that show deals very heavily with the theme of vengeance and a lot of what I have been taught through Xena I could easily apply to Buffy too. Now there are some subtle differences because Xena isn’t really a supernatural show so the laws of both shows regarding the themes of vengeance, violence and killing are and should be different. However - they still correlate. In Xena the characters talk extensively about what happens when you kill your first human being. There’s a phrase used: “Everything changes”. Everything changes once you cross the threshold in taking a human life away. This means you yourself are no longer as you were before and will never be able to return to that of which you were before. You’ve changed. But it also means changes in the world around you too. That’s also no longer as it was before and will never return to what it was before. Your experience has changed. Xena cleverly coins this situation as “losing your blood innocence”. You now know what it feels like to do something you can never take back. A moment in time that you cannot go back on and change. The guilt of it swallows you up and you find it extremely difficult to live with yourself over it whether the person you killed deserved to die or not.
I think we would all agree with Xander and Dawn regarding Warren. Warren deserved death for his horrific actions. Not just the killing of Tara and Katrina but the unsuccessful killing of Buffy and just the fact he is an extremely psychotic, misogynistic monster who, as Willow points out before she kills him, derives pleasure from the pain and destruction he causes. No different from your average vampire or demon who relish their kills to feed on or as a form of entertainment. He is just as bad as that as Xander said. So he did deserve death. But it was never Warren who Buffy was arguing for in this scene. It was Willow. Her best friend. She cared only about what killing Warren would do to her. It would destroy her. Later Warren himself said to Willow in a last-attempt effort to get Willow to stop torturing him that she would become just like him if she went through with the kill. That she would become a monster too - admitting that he was a monster himself. She didn’t listen to him and proceeded to magically rip his skin off his body. It was still brutal, but it was also quick. Her friends had caught up to her so she needed to be quick about it. She fully intended to torture him slowly until then as she believed that is exactly what he deserved. A slow and excruciatingly painful death at her personal hand.
The question to ask really then is how do we perceive the theme of vengeance? What does it mean to different people? Is vengeance a form of justice or a form of retribution? Is it punishment for punishment’s sake or what’s right? Sidestepping “vengeance” for a moment, I am constantly perusing and analyzing the themes of violence and killing due to watching Xena. Asking questions - (Is it right? When is it right? Why is it right? How is it right?) - and I’ve come to the answer that it never is right but sometimes it is necessary. And I’ve explained why I believe this elsewhere but the main point I want to get across here is that what compels a person to commit violence or killing is further themes: anger, hatred, fear and survival. And you can apply the first two to Willow’s situation. Thus, this is why it is revenge and not a necessity to kill Warren even though he does deserve death. It is never a moral situation to kill someone in my personal opinion, but there are times when it is a necessary situation. This isn’t one of those times. So on top of the guilt Willow would feel for killing her first human being, she’d also have the guilt that she didn’t actually have to kill him. She did it because she wanted to because she believed it to be justice for Tara. She died so he needed to die to avenge her death as he is the one who caused it in the first place. And it adds on as she then moves on to kill Rack and then she goes after Andrew and Jonathan. And this is where Buffy draws the line on the killing. At Andrew and Jonathan. They were sorry stupid sods themselves but they weren’t Warren or Rack. They weren’t monsters. Just idiots. And this is when the theme moves from vengeance to something much more sinister. To actual villainy. But I will discuss this further in my recap for ‘Two To Go’.
I will say that from a completely fictional standpoint - seeing Willow go dark was exhilarating to watch. But from a realistic standpoint - my soul yearned for her and all I had in the back of my mind was “What would Tara do?” How would she approach and handle this? Watching her lover commit all these atrocious acts in her name. What would she do to stop her and would she have prevented Dark Willow altogether? Again, these are questions to delve into and attempt to answer at another time. I merely just wanted to explain my whole thought process on what I believe it means to take a human life. Especially purposefully and in a way where the action itself isn’t warranted despite how much of a villain the person really is and wondering whether you become a villain yourself.
Perhaps you guys have your own thoughts? I’d love to read them. Leave them in the comments if you wish.
wow your amazing..first time ive seen a reaction from you, but this was so good, and ive seen a few..you keep it real and honest..loved it..I am team willow all the way..always was always will be..the only thing ill say in defense of buffy, is buffy is worried about her friend, and what this will do to her in the end so I get that..plus buffy is a real hero, they cant take the law into their own hands
First time I watched this episode I was nauseated with the visual of Warren's well deserved death, but always supported Willow's justice, because Sunnydale PD has done nothing but drop the ball for all these seasons (plus they were in the pocket of the departed Mayor-demon) so relying on them to get the right perp was not in the cards. The only way to stop Warren was force, and it's poetic justice, not even revenge, to me.
Real. Warren wouldn’t have stopped and the scoobies don’t have the resources needed to “fix” him even if it was possible.
This was a favorite show of mine 'back in the day,' but one thing I never liked about it was the rule that whenever the characters were given something good, more often than not, it had to be taken away again. Really kills the mojo.
You know what both excites me and frightens me? And I made this comment in Naj’s last reaction but it bears repeating again if only to quell my curiosity.
XENA: “I’ve seen what can happen to people who’s loved ones are butchered. Their vision gets bent and twisted. Then there’s no telling what they’ll do.”
What if Warren intended to kill Tara?
It was only an accident and Willow still flayed him alive like meat on a fucking skewer. So what would have happened if he intended to kill her? Damn…
Willow almost had a point in this episode until she pushed a recently shot Buffy to the ground with magic and teleported away uncaring. That was the moment where I personally knew that oh no, this magic is going to go too far. Separately from the issue of whether its right to kill Warren, there is no way that Willow was going to stop after doing it once she'd tasted the power she had.
"One down..."
She for sure went off the deep end, but a lot of us fans, myself included, was cheering Willow on in this episode
Exactly. She crossed the Rubicon. The point of no return. And to her insanely twisted-by-dark-magic brain, that was delicious. That was like tasting ambrosia. The food of the gods. She was quickly becoming hooked on that feeling of euphoria from her first venge-kill. It wasn’t just power corrupting her anymore. It was also blood. That’s why it’s called “blood-lust”. You become addicted to the taste of it.
I’m well versed in this subject due to watching Xena.
TORIS: “What did it feel like after you had beaten Cortese?”
XENA: “Feel? I didn’t have time to feel anything. Maybe, that was the problem. I knew that he’d come back, so I decided to form an army for defense. And then I figured to take the surrounding villages for a buffer. And then somewhere-- I don’t know where-- I changed. I didn’t have time to feel anything. And I promise you, Toris-- if you murder Cortese, you’ll become what I was.”
TORIS: “I’ve seen you kill, Xena. What’s the difference?”
XENA: “Maybe it’s just a difference in my head, but the pure evil of murder is that ist’s premeditated. It’s not in the heat of battle. And it’s not for self-defense. You have been planning this for years….
Later in the story of the episode.
…. You’re so hungry for that blood you’ll never wash off-- here he is. Everything I hated about me, you’re determined to make of yourself. Go on-- do it. And then tell me how much
better you feel about yourself.”
The point is this wasn’t simply just a kill for Willow. It was an unnecessary kill. She wanted it as justice for and to avenge Tara. By all rights, she should have that retribution. However, that doesn’t relieve her of the burden of what that might do to her if she does it.
So she’s avenged her love. Then what? How do you go on from that? How does that make anything “right” or “good” again? At best she’d get a fleeting sense of satisfaction but it wouldn’t last. She’d become empty again and would have to start the process all over again to fill the void. That’s why she goes after Jonathan and Andrew. It had nothing to do with them playing a part. They were easy targets for her and they knew it. And they also reminded her of what she used to be - what she so desperately wanted to remove herself from being.
Losers. Geeks. Weaklings.
Unwanted. Unloved. Unworthy.
In Warren, Andrew and Jonathan Willow goes after specific parts of herself and doesn’t recognize it because external projection was always what she did when she felt insecure.
Now kick that coping mechanism up x1000000
Dark Willow was already seeded to bloom. It was only missing two nourishments to do so; the power of dark magic and a catalyst for falling into its depths. Dark Magic was the external source and Tara’s death was the catalyst. Willow fell into its appeal like a moth to a flame. What results from it is Willow crossing the Rubicon of Blood.
@@Girl4Music And the saddest part is that if Tara was there, I can imagine she'd be super proud of Buffy and super disappointed in Willow, or at least super worried about her.
@@faithvictoria9014 of course because this is the one thing Tara has tried to escape from and avoid becoming her whole life. A literal demon. She ends up the opposite. A literal angel. 😖
@@Girl4MusicSPOILER FOR SEASON SEVEN
Some people headcanon that after Willow used the scythe, her basically god-level abilities allowed her to visit Tara, who was in a heavenly dimension
Dark Willow is badass tho
Pretty sure that Knight of Byzantium that got the axe in the chest ontop of the bus by Buffy is dead. So... she HAS killed humans
@najreactions
I have been WAITING for you to see this episode.
I know how upset you were but I also KNEW that you would feel the way I do.
But...I did NOT want to spoil it.
I'll be waiting for Season 7.
It's MY FAVORITE Season.
Evil Willow is my favorite Willow omggg!!!!!!
We were there with you crying baby
Remind me to never cross naj
The problem isn't what happens to Warren. I'd be more than happy to kill him myself. The problem is what killing him will do to Willow.
I'm not exactly a fan of Xander, but I can fully understand, with all else on his mind at the moment, that he doesn't note the blood on Willow's shirt.
I'm also not a big fan of Dawn, but my heart breaks at her reaction in this one.
And, again, I'm not the least bothered by what happened to Warren. I'm more concerned about what it does to Willow as...well, you'll (have, actually since this video is from 11 months ago) see.
Have I been waiting for this!
The axe didn't kill willow simply because the huge amount of dark magic she absorbed.
I needed a break after the last too. Have to get up at 5:00 for a zillion holiday cats tomorrow so I won't say much but I was also angry about Tara's death more because Whedons need to not have any lasting relationships went from being something that broke a cliche to becoming itself and it hurt the most in Hell's bells in this episode. Also the most traumatic death for me by far. And speaking of while I do believe this was The logical conclusion for Spike and that people should stop pretending he isn't a monster because all the signs were there and he had no soul, so of course he didn't understand that would hurt her like that, Dru probably would have liked it, sick as that is. Same time it was hard to condone putting the actors through that kind of trauma especially Marsters i quite the way it happened. But then I feel the same way about putting Sarah in a box twice knowing it was her greatest fear. Hopefully I'll catch the two episodes tomorrow. This one was quite a ride.
Warren is evil compared to the other two guys and was never gonna stop, he killed humans. He's so smart that he would have built a machine to get out of prison. Willow did what the slayer can't do. I guess since Willow was the main one responsible for the resurrection spell and kept abusing magic, she paid the price with Tara. People who practice magic will tell you that there's a price to pay, in the witcher too they show it.
Nothing quite like “the clarity of hatred” ah.
Yeah, sorry, seeing red is one of the hardest episodes, right up there with the body for me. I always feel bad that i can't warn people. Dark willow is fun, though.
I ❤️ willow ... Have since 93 .... But .... Revenge turns one who have good hearts n souls into evil n cold .... So Willow is going down the dark path ... This isn't a good thing for willow
I knew you'd like this one! Willow rocks, though she's treading on thin ice with the magicks and with morality. Seriously, the last one is best not taken seriously imo, you're right it's too triggering especially the way it's treated
I feel Joss is more like Warren but plays the nice guy like a Xander but that’s just a costume. He’s Warren through and through 🤷🏾♂️👍🏾✌🏾
Best antagonist in buffy EVER
You don’t want to use the word “villain”. Why is that?
@@Girl4Music dude idfk lol. Who cares?
Because im a vengeful person. Idgaf if she killed warren. Fuck warren.
@@swagsukeuchiha7599 neither do I. LOL. I care what she’d become from doing it. Nobody’s arguing for Warren here. Just Willow.
@@Girl4Music again idc bout the consequences. Im a vengeful spirit
@@swagsukeuchiha7599 fair enough 😝👌
Season 6 is a tough season to watch. When it originally aired I loved the season but halfway through I hated it. Now I appreciate it for what it is. Still not high on my season rankings.
I approve it
Genuine question: Bored now in this episode or with Vampire Willow?
for me, Vampire Willow all the way...but I do love the callback.
oh, vamp willow is much superior to this version, whether you're willow's friend or willow's enemy. nobody wants this version.
@@sirmoonslosthismind Vamp Willow is definitely a lot more fun that Dark Willow. Dark Willow is deeply depressed. There’s absolutely no emotion whatsoever on her face. In her eyes or with her mouth. She’s just emotionless. Demonic and numb to her humanity.
Whereas Vamp Willow actually enjoys doing her evil actions because she’s not human and is, in fact, a demon.
There is the theory that perhaps Dark Willow is a vengeance demon but just one that got there on her own and didn’t have to be “recruited” by D’Hoffryn to turn into one. But this was my own theory and I have since debunked and discarded it recently in favour of more humanizing concepts to go along with the realistic themes of Season 6
Williow could have popped in and killed Warren, instead she hunted him and the call back to vampire willow "bored now" amazing episode.
I've been a fan of this show from the start. I was glued to the TV waiting for the next episode. This show embraced lgbtq and there was no "bury the gays" in this show, unlike shows that came later who barley touched upon it. Also I don't get people who are like oh I don't like season 6 Willow! Season 6 is dealing with addiction from Willows position. Tara kept Willow grounded, she was the one good thing in Willows world according to her, she relapsed with the death of Tara.
“No bury your gays”
Er… Tara’s death is literally the definition of the bury your gays trope.
@@Girl4Music Wasn't Oz the one they were planning to kill?
@@retro6135 yes, in Season 4 but Seth Green decided he wanted to leave the show. Thus, the opening for making Willow go gay was there.
I don't hate dark Willow ,i mean its still willow at the core
Part of her anyway
Let’s be honest. Dark Willow vs Glory is the fight we all wanted to see.
Dark Willow would best her and you know it. Glory wasn’t the brightest Big Bad. Dark Willow is both incredibly strong and incredibly smart. She’d destroy her. Especially considering her magic was powerful enough to hurt her when she was just, regular, non-supervillain, Willow.
@@Girl4Music
Disagree. Glory has super speed. She killed hundreds of people in a few seconds and was long gone before Willow even got her shield down, with Dawn in one hand. Glory has the capacity to speed blitz Dark Willow. Not only that, because Willow is human Glory can brain suck her.
That attack is more of a testament to Glory tbh. Willow sucked dark magic books dry, and all she did was cause her maybe a few seconds of physical pain. After that she got destroyed by Glory who wasn’t even trying or taking her seriously. Glory was even laughing at how weak Willow was by the end of it. Willow spent most of that fight doing nothing and getting owned, and this was with Glory putting barely any effort in.
The only reason why I think it’s a good fight is because Glory could get cocky which gives Dark Willow a chance to win, but the moment Glory gets serious one speed blitz and brain suck would be enough.
Also academic smart doesn’t equal battle smart.
@@TheJayden3977 Dark Willow can teleport. Much faster than superspeed. And as for Glory being ‘battle smart’. She was tricked by the Buffybot and hit in the head with a hammer.
And Dark Willow hits where it hurts not just physically you know. She’d prey on Glory’s vanity and sense of superiority, catch her off guard while she does one of her poorly thought out quips and electrify the shit out of her. And there’s much more voltage in those lightening hands when she’s Dark Willow. She possess the collective power of a whole ass continent. I really disagree.
We’re gonna have a long debate on this 😭
And as for the brain-sucking, Dark Willow can power-drain and also manifest a shield around herself. Her prowess in magic would have Glory whimpering on the floor in pain.
Dark Willow can also slow down or speed up Spacial-Temporal. What if she just Piper-ed Glory off a fucking cliff and levitated herself off of it? There are so many ways…
Please Glory has nothing on Dark Willow.
@@Girl4Music
Proof? How do you know it’s faster. Buffy could dodge bullets point blank (even in the comics she dodged a hailstorm) and evade gunfire from Adam, yet wasn’t fast enough to react to Glory moving when she was at her house. Again Glory killed hundreds of people in a few seconds with one hand, and when Buffy went outside after the shield was down she was no where to be found. Even when Glory brain sucked Tara she was gone in a blink of an Willow’s eye. Willow isn’t even the fastest teleporter. Anya is faster and Willow could still get her. If Glory can move faster than what ever Buffy could perceive (she has demonstrated this), she can do the same to Willow who has the same feats with reaction times. Add in her near invulnerablility, insane strength and brain sucking. Yeah willow will have a hard time.
Warren tricked Dark Willow with a robot in this episode. No different. Glory wasn’t stupid. Her mental state was just deteriorating the longer she was here. Glory was smart enough to cast magic to stop people from knowing her and Ben were the same. Spike even comments it was crafty. I’m also talking about Willow here. Just because she is smart academically doesn’t mean she is smart battle wise. Even look at Willow in Season 5. She was foolish to try and take Glory and was fueled by vengeance. She would have died if Buffy didn’t show up or if Glory wasn’t toying with her.
I agree in the sense Dark Willow can win if Glory stays cocky through the entire fight, the problem is when or if Glory goes for the kill/attack/offense she has the capability of ending the fight in a less than second. One speed attack and brain fry is enough.
The same voltage that only pushed Buffy back for a seconds, someone who Glory spent a whole season making them look like a joke.
She doesn’t possess the power of a continent, she also didn’t have the power to end the world on her own but had to travel to specific place to do it (another thing fans get wrong). Dark Willow is very overrated power wise. Like she is powerful as hell but to me she comes in second after Glory.
She only ever showed to drain power of magical beings or magic itself, not someone’s physical strength. Again Glory’s brain suck turns Willow into a mindless follower. What Willow did in Season 5 (with the element of surprise I might add) only disoriented Glory. No contest.
Proof? When she ever speed up or slow down the spatial temporal as Dark Willow? Glory has actual combat feats with speed. Dark Willow has never shown anything in terms of slowing or speeding time.
No, Glory in my opinion is above Dark Willow. If Willow wasn’t a major character and a one off villain for three episodes no where near as many people would say she win. Not saying you in particular but the fans seriously overestimate Dark Willow because they like to play favourites or are biased with their favourite characters. Willow is my favourite character in the series yet I still think overall she would lose to Glory 6-7/10. The only reason why I think it’s a great fight is because of Glory’s arrogance, which gives Dark Willow a chance to win. Aside from that Glory’s speed would be too much.
@Ricky I doubt it. Physical strength isn’t the only thing that makes one succeed in battle.
Behold the true Big Bad of Season 6
DARK WILLOW (or Darth Willow if you like)
Everybody pays so much attention to Willow’s monologue in ‘Villains’ that they completely miss Warren’s monologue in one last attempt to survive.
WARREN: “Please! God! I did wrong, I see that now. I need, I need jail! I need... But you, you don't want this. You're, you're not a bad person. Not like me. Oh, and when you get caught, you'll lose them too. Your friends. You don't want that. I know you're in pain, but-“
WILLOW: “Bored now.”
Obviously it’s a weak attempt to save his life. To get her to to stop. He wasn’t being sincere and Willow knew that. But still… the weight of what is said is significant. He is basically telling her that she’ll become just like him if she does kill him. She’ll become the villain. Now think back to ‘Flooded’.
GILES: “Oh, there are others in this world who can do what you did. You just don't want to meet them.”
WILLOW: “No, probably not, but... well, they're the bad guys. I'm not a bad guy.”
It’s an important philosophical question I come back to over and over again. Is it right to kill? If it is, when is it? If it’s not, does doing so make you a bad guy or is it just that you did a bad thing? Or doesn’t it matter ‘cause your actions and choices are what make you what you are anyway? I have never answered this question and therefore it has never quite left my mind. It just keeps coming back to me like a boomerang. I’ve perused over this question or these set of questions since my first time watching ‘Xena: Warrior Princess’ and observing Gabrielle’s arc with becoming a warrior. I don’t think I’ll ever get rid of this subject.
And maybe that’s the point. I’m not meant to.
I’d argue that the big bad of season 6 is misogyny.
@@ihateunicorns867 nah, that’s just part of what triggers the real Big Bad. If we’re going by themes: Power corruption, vengeance and addiction are what ultimately culminate in the finale. The finale is always Big Bad territory.
@@Girl4Music Yeah, you’re probably right. I just like how this show identified and called out the misogyny in nerd culture back in a time when nerds were still considered the heroic underdogs. There’s that brilliant bit in _Dead Things_ where Katrina points out that making women “willing sex slaves” is rape to Jonathan and Andrew, and they suddenly have this epiphany that they’re the baddies. This feeds into what you say here about Willows arc. Everyone thinks they’re the good guys. But goodies and baddies don’t exist in real life. Just people, and the consequences of their actions (such as Warren accidentally killing Tara when he starts shooting wildly about). In real life, you don’t win by defeating the baddies, you win by growing and changing yourself.
@@ihateunicorns867 what you said about Katrina saying how making someone their “willing sex slave” is rape. I’ve always thought there was extreme similarities between the Trio using technology + magic (the cerebral dampener) to do this and Willow using memory erasing magic to do this. Of course the intention is not the same. Willow of course does not intend to make Tara her willing sex slave in erasing her memory. But the action is still the same because she’s still sexually intimate with her anyway while she’s under the effects of the spell and she knows it. While she is willing to have sex - when she wouldn’t be without being under the influence of the magic spell. I.e. drug-induced date-rape. The parallels there, although not exactly the same, are extreme. And they put Willow in the category of the “the bad guy” even before she becomes Dark Willow because it’s the most fucked up thing she does in the entire show. Mind-raping the love of her life.
What Season 6 (and really, if I’m honest, her entire arc) does is plant the seeds. Willow is essentially corrupting herself to lose her sense of morality. Her moral compass. Her soul. Even though she doesn’t and neither does Warren. I’m saying if they were supernatural entities and not human, this would be the equivalent of losing their soul. You can claim misogyny but actually what Warren does is not really dissimilar to what Willow does.
IMO, Warren is Joss Whedon's true self-insert.
Along with Xander and Spike. After reading that New York Magazine piece about him, I wanted to throw up.
Really surprised at how affected you are by the Tara thing. I was never that invested in her as a character.
Me neither but i respect that warren needed death
Because Whedon doesn’t make her investable. He makes her a plot device. Oz had more damn individuality than Tara did and they had about the same screen-time. Naj is affected because Tara is a pure character. She represents purity. She appreciates her compassion and her empathy. Her kindness and her willingness to always put others before herself - leading to her own demise.
I feel like Tara’s character was the catalyst for Willow’s issues and it made me feel for Willow even more. So Tara was sort of a plot device to further Willow’s character. Hence being upset by her death… because of what it did to Willow.
@@kalykay I’d argue she does have a flaw. She’s too good for her own good.
@@alysharichards3757 yep. And that’s infuriating to me. She deserved so much more.