WHAT IF The AFL Had Promotion & Relegation?
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- Опубликовано: 27 июл 2024
- AFL football is a solo competition we all love and adore, but what would happen if a promotion and relegation system were to be implemented into the sport? We take a deep dive and explore how things would work in this video today. Enjoy!
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0:00 Intro
1:15 What would need to change?
3:40 Explaining the AFL Pyramid
10:24 How would the draft and recruitment now work?
12:32 Conclusion
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G'day RUclips, welcome to the Riles Macca RUclips Channel. I'm an 19 year old Aussie bloke that gets around AFL and sport. This channel is all about AFL footy content. So if you're new to the sport or an all time fan, make sure to like and subscribe.
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Friday night games at the local div 4 team would be such an experience. This would be great to see.
Souvas be poppin, like the pigskin, or footy.
Especially if an AFL team gets relegated all the way to tier 4 and it’s a local club vs a former AFL club with a big fan base
West Coast v North Adelaide in the div 4 promotion playoffs, can you ask for more
@@jkfootybros9425 west coast are not a big club outside Western Australia shush you aren’t near Collingwood or even Dandenong stingrays
@The-SCG-Files west coast are the most profitable club in the afl and are worth more than most other clubs, obviously Collingwood has more fans but dropping your netball team for financial reasons dhows a lot.
Love how you've integrated this! I think the only major flaw is that it may be unrealistic for Tier 2 sides to travel for their interstate games assuming that the league doesn't have major financial backing. You could easily do it with a conference system akin to the NBA, though. You could go a Southeast Conference of Vic and Tassie, Northeast Conference of NSW and Queensland, and a Western Third Conference with SA, WA, and NT. It would be like the regional leagues in Tier 3, i.e., playing locally and having a national finals round, but within the one league. Alternatively you could have a hub system like we did during covid, but then I imagine that would have its own issues. Guess it would be up to the players/coaches in the league to decide whether they'd rather travel interstate every other week or spend 3/4 weeks away from home.
Yeah the conference system sounds like a cracking idea in tier 2, certainly would be more realistic to have it in place if there isn't enough money for national travel. Glad you enjoyed the video mate.
@@RilesMacca No wokkas there cobba, you've done really well on this one. And yeah, we have to keep the WA and SA teams in mind when it comes to travel!
Or get rid of tier two and put tiers 3&4 up one and The new tier 4 could be added when overseas teams join and if they win overseas then they get into tier 3 or something similar
as someone who played Cricket and footy for East Ringwood i would love to see the Roos kick arse in the AFL haha
Love the in depth info. but could you imagine if Collingwood or richmond with 100,000 members were in the second tier
Or they get relegated to their 4 and have to play in the VAFA. It would be amazing if the Fitzroy Football Club in the VAFA got promoted to the AFL if this system were put in place
Yeah I hate them both.
I love richmond
Richmond only have a large membership when they're successful. They'd all crawl back into the woodwork if they were relegated.
@@listey Get the microwaves busy cooking membership cards.
I've been thinking this for years, as a huge fan of the English football tier system, but I've never been able to design a plan for a tiered AFL as you have in this video. Incredible work my man!
As much as I would love to see this become a reality, I also agree that it would never happen in our lifetime because of the logistics. but, hey... a fan can dream, right?
It'd be a cool idea but I think in countries like Australia and in North America where the competition is more between sports (e.g. NRL, A-League; NBA, NFL, NHL) than between clubs it's really hard to do where you're not in a country where the sport you're doing promo/reg in is the first, second, and third most popular sport.
That is a big factor indeed, of course the English pyramid includes 4 professional league when football (soccer) is the uncontested number 1 sport in England and the Premier league is one of the most (globally) watched leagues in the world. The Aussie rules participation (relative to population) doesn’t even come close to the football (soccer) participation in England and the sport isn’t even very popular some parts of the country.
That could work! But i'd rather make the AFL with 3 relegations to NAFL , and NAFL with 4, and Tier 4 would have 8 with relegations instead (Some regional teams would be adding a promotion playoffs depending of how many depending on the city). Great video BTW! IRYO on the system!
100% agree - One of the most crucial factors is shifting away from the draft and introducing a transfer market so that lower league clubs can make a profit developing prospects. It would open up the entire system for this to work. Great vid.
I love the theory! Probably wouldn’t want to see it implemented (and as mentioned it would probably be impossible too) but it’s great to think about!
Suggestion for a what if? What if the AFL introduced a conference system like that of the NFL, where teams would be divided into conferences, have separate conference play offs just like our current finals system, with the premiers of each division playing each other in national championship, representing each conference, with the ultimate winner being crowned as AFL Champions? I believe the best way of doing this would be four separate conferences, the Victorian Conference comprising of all Victorian teams, the South Australian Conference comprising teams from the former SANFL, the Western Conference, comprising of the former Western Australian Football League and the Northeastern League, comprising of teams from NT, NSW and QLD, since they would have less Footy teams due to their preference of rugby overall. Just a suggestion for a what if.
Yeah that sounds like a really good concept too. To make the numbers work, there might have to be only 2 conferences, with like the top 4 teams from each conference making finals.
This is one of the best and most thought out videos i have seen. Great content
This was fantastic mate, one of the best footy related videos I've watched on the platform.
@UCATT same
The major problem with AFL and the second tier VFL is that many of the teams in VFL already have AFL teams.
Back between the 1900s to 1999, there was the Under 19s, Reserves and Senior teams while the current VFL was originally the VFA back in the day.
When the VFA became the current VFL in 2000s, many of the older VFA teams were struggling financially including Port Melbourne and Williamstown where they had to partner up with an AFL team to become a affiliation side.
In recent years from 2015 onwards when Western Bulldogs revived their Footscray name for the VFL as their stand alone Reserves side.
So if there was a Relegation/Promotion system then there will be a conflict if one of the stronger VFL teams ends up being promoted into the AFL where their Seniors side are.
So while the VFL/AFL never had a relegation system with the VFA/VFL, they each had their own Under 19s, Reserves and Seniors teams to separate the pros and the rookies and those who never get a chance with the senior AFL side.
You have worked this out pretty thoroughly Miles and if it was ever implemented it would be pretty spectacular.
Another thought would be a very much scaled down system. If you recall, the old VFA had two divisions and a system of relegation and promotion but only between the two divisions. It actually worked pretty well. I believe that 18 AFL teams is too many for any competition - a situation which is only going to get worse with the introduction of a team from Tassie. As such I would like to see a system along the lines of the old VFA for our AFL Admittedly it's nowhere near as grand as your proposal but it would stand a chance of being implemented.
Most local Leagues already have such a system in place which seems to work okay and I can see no real reason why the AFL shouldn't do likewise.
This is perfectly explained and a great creative idea Riles!
What an awesome video from you Riles! Extremely well thought out and excellently put together. You’ve just got me incredibly hyped over an idea that will never happen. We can only dream such a change would become reality though. Like you said, it would make for such an exciting and enthralling new chapter in Australian Rules Football!
You summed up my thoughts exactly.
Well it could backfire enormously , people here are overenthusiastic. People should look at the English PL first and reflect if that is really such a great system.
Glad i didnt comment till the end. top quality video mate, think your right to say its not feasible at the moment but maybe in 80-100 years we will have the money, population and transport systems to have this work.
Great Video Riles, could be my favourite video on the whole of RUclips. Such an interesting concept, but of course, as mentioned there’s so many logistics. The stadium standard difference between the AFL and NAFL would be massive compared to the standard between the EPL and championship. If Coburg were promoted into the AFL, they’d be playing at Cobourg city Oval against 17 other teams who have fully seated stadiums. Also, do you think before a pyramid started lots of non-AFL clubs would have to get rebranded otherwise we could have Richmond, Werribee, Glenelg, Claremont, Albury, Wagga, Torquay, Noosa, Kingsboroh ect all being the Tigers all in the same league. To me the biggest fear of the system is traditional football states dominating and the sport dying in Gold Coast in western Sydney because they have no teams in the top professional league.
Really excellent video. Such underrated content.
Very creative and fantastic video!
It's an idea I have mooted for years. Good to see someone else talking about it.
At this I'm convinced you're gonna have a job in the AFL just based off your effort in these vids
Great video mate. Very well made... how amazing would it be if this actually happened!
Elite video mate! I would honestly love to see this to add a bit more intensity down the bottom of the AFL ladder
Love the idea mate, I have always had the idea of a promotion/relegation in AFL since I love watching Soccer but I see one major problem with this system though. In think either the reserve league should have stand alone promotion/relegation or (the option I prefer) have no reserve league and instead just let all of the players in those teams go down.
If the reserve league had standalone promotion/relegation it would help develop players more than for example the Carlton reserves winning by 200 points every game because they wont develop as well as if they were playing competition with players more to their level. But having no reserve league would mean
1.AFL teams have to balance having young players and starters in their list
2.Help the 2-4 tiers by being able to develop talent which would in turn make better players all the way through the system better
3.Make the AFL spend less money and time on a whole 2nd system and turn towards other things that are more useful (like a cup competition)
If you read all of this, thank you and I hope to see more AFL content from you because these vids are high quality. Keep it up
Awesome video mate! Could see this happening.
Fantastic video mate this was awesome! as you stated in the video 1 of our biggest issue is just the population of the country, I feel the talent pool just isn't big enough to support something like this and sustain competition. But none the less would be very interesting!
for this to work i think you would need to either reduce the number of teams in each league to about 14 or make the bottom 2, 3 or 4 teams in a league be relegated
Great video, very interesting idea
As a european fan of footy I think we absolutely need these changes
Genuinely pumped that Coburg won your imaginary tier 3 bracket. Carn the Burgers!
Love the idea it would be a great Thing especially for a bunch of local leagues like the WRFL and more ❤❤
Great video I’m not sure about it tbh this is a great idea but I really don’t know as well because of schedule and where the home games will be played
far out this would be incredible
Once Tasmania becomes the 19th AFL team in the new future and eventually a 20th team (hopefully a NT team, that’s what I’m hoping for), I could kinda see the AFL have conferences similar in style to the NFL.
However, for this to work we would need to have 20 teams. The idea I’ve thought of would be 5 conferences consisting of 4 teams each.
- Each conference would have at least 1 pair of rival teams (one would have Adel/Port, another would have WC/Freo, two would have Syd/GWS and one would have Bris/GC etc)
- All teams would play their rivals and the other two teams in their pools twice during the year and every other team once for a 23 round season. There will still be a mid season bye
- Finals will still be the top 8 and will be decided solely on the best record of the top 8 teams altogether, regardless of which pool they are in
If we had a much larger talent pool, this would be a great idea. Unfortunately, small population base. With more teams on the way, the talent pool will be even more shallow. Still, fun idea, great video!
good video riles! personally i dont mid the idea ik it will never happen but i wouldnt mind it. imagine a big team like the pies got relegated tho it might lose popularity
Great concept Macca, I'd probably try fit in a tier five but unsure how that would go down, reason being that if a country club does a fairytale run they're then matched up against a former VFL side in tier 3.
If you moved to a tier system there’d be no need for the stand alone Tasmanian/NT/Canberra teams. Teams from these regions could just rise up the ranks and their supporter bases would follow.
Great video I’d prefer 2 up 2 down system. Say if you finish top of the league your guaranteed to go up. Then the teams below have a play off for the other spot. Then you could introduce a cup competition. Hence placing far more value on winning your league
This did almost happen at one point the VFA offered to become the second division of the VFL, but the VFL clubs refused the offer because they didn't want to have the risk of relegation.
2:42 Ballarat Football League logo included. LETS GOOOOO!!!!!! UP THE BURRA 💙💛💙💛
both AFL & NRL need this
I really like this idea. It would be great if implemented. Hopefully it could happen.
Great video
In theory it would be great. In practice, retaining a draft would be unworkable (but that's fine, i don't believe a draft should exist in the AFL as it is).
It works with most (not quite all) Association Football partly because they are uncapped on salary, have no draft, and relegation into regional leagues doesn't create big border issues. Getting relegated from the English conference to a north or south conference doesn't mean large trips. If a side from the far south gets relegated in, a side in the midlands that plays in the south gets moved to play in the north. If a side from WA gets promoted to the second tier, and a side from NSW gets relegated from the second tier, either the size of the top NSW league has to change or the NSW side plays in the (now) third tier WAFL. That's a massive difference.
The top Championship side is usually paying around the same as, often more than, the bottom Premiership side. The gulf between AFL sides and the next tier is massive, the rearrangement is - as you say - verging on the impossible, and certainly impractical.
With reserves added, AFL lists would actually become larger. Currently when they field their reserves teams they use top-ups, but many don't field their own reserves but have basically consumed other clubs which would have their own lists as well as the (currently) AFL club reserve players. The AFL club would need their own full reserves, and the subservient club (e.g. Box Hell) its own full list as well.
In 1986, pre-Eagles, maybe it could have been done. The gap between the VFL and SANFL and WAFL was nowhere near as large as between the AFL and state leagues now.
I reckon it would be awesome!
Really well thought out footy pyramid. I’d prefer this over the Vic centric compromised mess we have today with the AFL… population and money are the challenges, and we are too far down the AFL rabbit hole to make major changes such as this. 1987 would have been the time to attempt it, but the economics at the time dictated that any national league was going to spawn out of the VFL, there really was no other option.
Two tiers. Tier 1, 8 teams play finals, bottom 2 get relegated. Tier 2, top 8 teams plays finals. The 2 GF get promoted. The bottom 2 teams in Tier 2 gets 2 top draft selections. No more beefing up new teams or struggling teams. The rules would be simple. All teams play each other once (19). Teams play each other twice bases on finishing position from the previous session, 1, 3, 5, 7, 9. Simple.
I'm glad I'm not the only one who has thought of this
Riles gotta be one of the most creative AFL youtubers out there
A proper, permanent national 2nd division would be so cool. Call it the "Championship".
Well laid out. I think adding franchises at the AFL level would be more likely - could include inviting in some good T2 teams. The money issue, though, comes in - how to get those teams and their facilities on a level playing field with the others?
Yeah that's the struggle, money would need to be funded into those areas, and possibly prize money be added for teams that get promoted, finish top 8 etc.
how local leagues work in area is the exact same pyramid in each division rivals except this is every single league!
I'm 3 weeks late, I just found your channel 😅 this was a great video and put together VERY well..
I think it would be a great idea for the sport, it deserves world wide recognition.
Question, do you think it would be more possible if the AFL decided to privatise teams? So each team is private with an actual owner?
Surely that would reduce the funding significantly that the AFL provides to teams every year.
Cheers mate glad you enjoyed the video, yeah most likely this would have to happen. Considering that other sports that have promotion and relegation have this.
Riles Macca this would also allow port adelaide to wear black and white prison bars and wear a 3rd clash kit.
Hell will freeze over before the Southport Sharks to enter the AFL comp.
This video was well implemented and I watch the epl and I know the system, it’s too late to introduce relegation/promotion system to the AFL with the way the sport has developed
Such an elite video
Doing this you could go back to the 12 team grading system, every side playing each other twice in a 22 round season. You could run 4 divisions of 12 then. Maybe even 5.
These are the types of conversations we need to have about Aussie Rules and the AFL.
We have the Premiers, so I think 2nd tier could be the Champions.
Also, I think reserves sides should be made into separate teams. There's just not enough resources to keep them and have 2 pyramids.
If we keep this conversation going, it can happen earlier than we think.
This is the future of Aussie Rules.
I believe it.
This is a great idea
I used to play with all the guys at 2:57 of this video! Picture was taken just before I joined.
Love how central reverse colac got a tiny part 😉
I love the idea! what if the team that wins the minor NAFL premiership but doesnt win the premiership gets to play against 17th from the AFL for promotion? So basically earning the team a second chance at promotion and making the team that finished 17th nervous and all of us fans excited to see how it plays out. most seasons 1 would go up but occasionally might get a 2 team exchange, extra excitement is always good
What I propose is a revamp of the existing league system, which in turn creates a MUCH FAIRER and INTERESTING competition.... 2 tiers, 10 teams in each (total 20 teams. the current 18 + tasmania + one more). Would love to know your thoughts.
LEAGUE COMP. In each league, each team plays each other twice (home and away), resulting in a total of 18 games. This makes a FAIR fixture. Top 2 teams in top league play in GF. Top 2 teams in lower league get PROMOTED (they would also have their own Minor GF). Bottom 2 teams in top league get RELEGATED. As all games are within the same league level, the games should be much closer, and much more competitive. Also, this means that all teams have something to play for really.
CUP COMP. In order to add a few more games to the season, and add a more cup/knockout style interest, and more rivalries, there would also be a CUP. Teams would be separated into 4 GROUPS (East Coast = BL, SS, GC, GWS, TAS.... West/Central = PA, AD, FRE, WC, OTHER.... Vic Central = RIC, MEL, COL, CARL, NM.... Vic Suburbs = GEE, WB, HAW, ESS, STK). Each play each other once. Top 2 from each group go into FINALS (KNOCKOUT).
This means that the total number of possible games per club is 23-27 (depending on finals), league system is fair and competitive. Stronger rivalries, with cup groupings, and still allows teams to play other teams outside of their "league". More "8 point swings" by playing more games against competing ladder position sides.
Relegation to the next lower league is something I have thought would really be a wonderful thing to try to put some oomph into players.
Along with the demotion of the team, reduce the pay the players receive by a pro rata portion.
Perhaps have a basic wage, for example, $200K?
Anyway, AFLPA would never in a million years agree to it.
it already happens in junior football so it would be interesting to see it at a higher level
On the top 2 tiers it would work . Tier 3 will work as it is state based and Queensland are already using it already .]
This is why you have The Southport Sharks relegated to the tier 2 VFL.
Doubt it would work in Australia.
Love this
Wouldn't mind seeing promotion/relegation but I think realistically, it would have to be between the AFL and state leagues for at least 20 years before introducing amateur teams in to the mix.
They could still use the pyramid, just a smaller version.
Each states premier side would play off in a knockout or round robin comp to crown the champion and from there, you get your promoted team and then whoever finishes 18th in the AFL moves back to their state league. The only issue I could see coming from that would be if all the Victorian sides eventually fall out of the AFL and are replaced by interstate teams. That would potentially cripple state leagues unless they were able to temporarily merge state leagues so they can have full seasons - which then feeds in to the issue of travel for state teams and supporters. The AFL would have to put some serious coin up to accommodate it
Unreal video
It won't happen in our lifetime, but it is a great concept. Only one team being relegated from tier 1 AFL is not enough, at least two need to be relegated. To reduce player numbers and therefore more opportunities for lower clubs in other tiers, the current on-field 18 (i.e. 6 6 6) needs to be reduced to 15 (i.e. 5 5 5) creating a more open game thus reducing overall club player list numbers, which will filter down to other lower tier competitions thus making lower tier clubs stronger and also reduces all clubs' total player salaries, making better economic sense.
Also presently 18 teams are not enough IMHO in tier 1. There needs to be 23 or 24 teams (yes! 23 or 24!) so that each team plays each other once in a 22 or 23 game season. Currently the fixture is lop sided, with some teams playing lower teams twice, while others only play them once. The current TV rights deal should be able to cover these extra 5 to 6 teams (wink wink!).
If the reserves follow their first grade counterpart then it would create a problem where two teams have to be relocated each year as the reserve grade winners would go up along with the first grade winners reserve side.
That last bit about the reserve movement wouldn’t create a competitive or rewarding environment. In England they just leave the reserve sides to be as they are and usually the good teams usually have their reserve side in the 1st or 2nd league.
Another con missed in this video is what if a team in the nail or lower tiers had the same uniform or close enough to a team already in tier 1? Ringwood roos would have to rebrand for instance to distinguish from North
Would be so cool
If the AFL had a relegation and promotion system, then rebuilds such as the one's that clubs have undertaken would be radically different. If you want to use North as an example, then Petrie, Harvey, Firrito, Dal Santo, MacMillan, Williams, Pittard etc., would all have had their careers prolonged. The other factor is the new franchises would be in a yo-yo phase between the first & second tiers for multiple years & player retention/exodus would be even worse. A good discussion, but it has no real basis in reality.
While I think this is an interesting idea I really like how without relegation you can make more history with clubs rebuilding
Reduced list sizes should lead to a reduced season, and possible culling of teams in each tier to balance it out. Go from 18 teams in the AFL to 12/14
Those AFL Licenses are worth millions each, that's a huge legal impediment right there. The best football comp in the World is the FA Cup, and I grew up on Australian Rules
There would only be protests from Vics. SA and WA have already lived through their teams being relegated to the 2nd Tier. When they used to be on par with the Vics as parallel competitions.
I think I read that long time ago, there was a suggestion a pro/rel system was going to be implemented between VFL & VFA, with the VFL wooden spooner swap sides with the VFA premiers every year. We know that never eventuated. If it were to happen, it should've happened long time ago.
Would love to see a massive shake up of the AFL leagues and structures. How do you think a 2-2-1-1-1 system would work for the finals bracket? And would the minor league seasons be as long as the AFL season, in your example of the East Ringwood Roos jumping all the way to the AFL, would that take 4 years of smashing each league?
If I wasn't a Saints fan I might like this system.
I love these hypotheticals. I don't think it will ever happen in Australia for lots of reasons. My favourite being, that the best players not selected in the AFL will simply play in the reserve grade comp, so as to be on hand when injuries or suspensions inevitably come. Thus making the NAFL the 3rd best competition in the country. Whoever gets promoted will only get 1 year from getting flogged every week before demotion. The next promoted team would continue the cycle.
Could have the scenario of say the senior AFL side getting relegated but the reserves AFL side winning the flag… since the reserves side follows the seniors, the reserves would get relegated despite winning the flag in the reserves comp
Awesome video, apologies If someone has already thought of this but what would happen if a Victorian Team won Tier 3 promotion to tier 2. But a South Australian state club got relegated from tier 2. Would we see 2 teams relegated from the sanfl back to local comps to accomodate the tier 2 cellar dweller and the div 4 promotion winner or would Vic see 1 less in VFL and SA 1 more in the SANFL?
although this is very interesting and has its many upsides i prefer the current system maybe its what im used to and thats why but this video was great
Thanks Macca, but what if a team from the nafl like east Ringwood got promoted to the afl and north Melbourne got relegated and the same thing happens again next year but north Melbourne got promoted and east Ringwood got relegated and vice versa every year?
glad you enjoyed the vid man, yeah they just go up and down really simple as that. Remember it would be practically impossible for east Ringwood to go all the way to tier 1 anyway too.
While I like the pyramid setup, I would increase the promotion/relegation between at least tier 1 and 2, and maybe tier 2 and 3. Going off other leagues, they do have more slots in this in the upper leagues, and I could see it fitting with this structure too, since only 1 promotion/relegation seems highly constrictive.
Sidenote: Thanks for including Port (the Bulldogs) in the SANFL tier 3. I only wish they could play in the SANFL....
Yeah fair call on increasing the amount of teams being promoted/relegated. I personally only made it 1 team going up and down because I feel there wouldn't want to be too many drastic changes on the league each year.
Promotion & Relegation is a great idea Riles. I've wondered about it for years. Your video is great. Logistics are a problem that could be worked through. A couple of things I would like to see you address are (1) hitting the post. As in soccer if the ball hits the woodwork and bounces back into the field of play it still 'live' - game on. If it hits the post and goes through, it counts as a score. So insane these video reviews to see if a ball 'snicked' the post or not. Yawn. (2) Same goes for the rule if the ball grazes a fingernail and is discounted as 'touched' and reduced score. The great thing about Aussie Rules is the rules of the game can be changed - unlike most other codes that can't be changed without an act of parliament or congress. Traditionalists die hard.
If the AFL ever did something like this, it'd be only a matter of time until a black and white Magpies team (there's one in every league) win the delegation to into tier 1, and Collingwood management would immediately end the whole system.
Honestly I think if we had this tier system, every time a team got demoted to tier 4 they would probably dissolve imo lol
It would be an absalute nightmare! I see allot people for it without thinking of the logistical and financial outcome
Don't get me wrong I actually love the idea of Southport sharks or Norwood in the afl but it has to be on a permanent basis
Such a good idea if this happened the AFL could be one of the biggest leagues in the world
I totally sgree with this system
Brilliant concept,a strategy such as this must happen, The AFL is a stale format as is.
OMG how amazing would it be to see Ess WC and even Haw out on their arse